#i want to keep rambling about every single riverclan cat now

[burning-thistles-bt]

Hi! First of all, love the AU and fic, I've been keeping up with it for about a year now and I love seeing new updates on it! Secondly, I was wondering two things... #1. Is Adderfang still Thistlestar's mentor in this AU? I don't believe we ever saw much of their Mentor-Apprentice relation in the fic if it existed, (likely because Adderfang hates Thistlestar so much xD) what was that like? Do you think Adderfang's reaction being so extreme was not only because he loves his daughter, but also because he felt betrayed at his former apprentice's actions? and #2. In Leopardstar's honor, a timeline is given for Mosspelt's pregnancy and relationship with Frogleap, and through another wonderful oversight by the Erins, Mosspelt apparently was pregnant while she was still an apprentice, from Frogleap, a cat who was ~4 years old. She gave birth around the same age as Spottedleaf had the Firesibs! I know that the BT timeline is a bit altered from canon, and that the fic pre-dates some later retcons from the series, like Volewhisper surviving. Is Frogleap having a predatory relationship with Mosspaw/pelt a thing that happened in BT? If so, what was that like for Mosspelt? Did she ever get any support in her hardships? did Dawnflower join the rebels out of a disdain for Thistlestar, knowing he has done terrible things like her father did as well? Anyways, that's about all. Sorry for such a long message! Thanks for putting so much time into your work and making such a great fic, and for taking the time to read my questions!!

yes Adderfang is still Thistlestar's mentor! i don't believe if it was ever mentioned in the fic or any one-shots, but he is lol. Adderfang's reaction was so extreme because Spottedpaw was his Precious Baby Girl and he very abruptly realized during the reveal how awful it was that someone in a position of power was getting with an apprentice (he would not have been so aggressive if this was a situation with a different apprentice and warrior---for example, Whitepaw and Goldenflower, or something. he cared and got protectively angry so much because it was his own daughter affected). the fact that Thistlestar was his own apprentice honestly didn't even cross his mind until it was over, and then it was just a very angry thought process of "i never taught him to be like that! (did i teach him to be like that?)" (yes, he taught him to be like that---not a predator, but he taught, unintentionally, Thistlestar to be more aggressive. remember, Adderfang was a part of Thistleclaw's groups that attacked kittypets for no reason.)

in BT canon, Mosspelt and Frogleap's relationship isn't touched upon much because I didn't realize how young Mosspelt was and also I'm not sure how much their age gap changes with the condensed timeline in BT lol. But! But! There are always hidden inappropriate relationships in the background (like, WillowTawny, although that's not really in the bg, but compared to SpottedThistle, GrassThistle, and DawnFinch, its not as prominent. also ShadeThistle is a bg bad-relationship. and i believe Cloudrunner x Morningflower would be one too, and there's definitely more. and future ones, like Snowbird x Scorchfur), so I do think Frog and Moss could be as it is in accidentally implied canon, where Frog groomed Moss. after all, most of RiverClan was pretty accepting of Thistle getting with Grass, weren't they? well, in general, it is---or was---unfortunately an acceptable part of clan culture. I do think that there is a multitude here; I think Frogleap is not as manipulative as Thistlestar, and cared more genuinely about Mosspelt and her emotions. While that does not make what he did okay AT ALL, I think Mosspelt did not experience as much negative emotions about the situation, and she doesn't perceive herself as being preyed upon. There are real life relationships like this, and they're definitely not ideal, and there's issues, but sometimes it just works out like that. i think there might have been issues down the line though, if Frogleap had survived, and Mosspelt had grown more as a person and developed differences in her personality than to how she was as an apprentice/young warrior. I'm getting "they died a happy couple, but if he had lived, she would have grown up and become more independent and he'd get upset at the changes, and then she'd divorce him" vibes

Dawnflower was one of Thistlestar's victims! it's mentioned a few times in passing that Thistlestar would 'go on patrol' with Dawnpaw, or look at Dawnpaw. actually, most young she-cats in RiverClan (Silverstream, Grasswhisker, Vixenleap, Shadepelt, Dawnflower, Primroseleaf, Feathertail, etc.) experienced some level of "creepiness" with Thistlestar. Dawnpaw/flower was one of the ones that Thistlestar would definitely say a bunch of weird shit to and touch her, but they never did anything past that. still, Dawnflower was scared shitless by him and terrified he'd do something she didn't want to him. she also just hated how aggressive/annoying Thistle and Lightning's rule was, so she left the instant she had an out (LeopardClan), though she was also really scared to leave her family/home behind, and worried for her siblings/friends. Dawnflower also definitely thinks of Frogleap (her dad) as a good warrior, and has no idea his and Mosspelt's relationship would have been similar to what she was experiencing (though, again, Mosspelt viewed Frogleap's attention as a much more positive thing, sort of like how Spottedleaf did with Thistlestar at the beginning. Meanwhile, Dawnflower was just always scared of his attention)

it's interesting, definitely, that Mosspelt stood against Thistlestar and what he'd done, yet never saw that she was victim to something similar too... though, to be fair, she joined LeopardClan because she supported Leopardfur as a close friend (through Frogleap) and knew Leopardfur was being unjustly accused, not necessarily out of a hatred of Thistlestar himself. much to think about...

#the complexity of relationships get me #i want to keep rambling about every single riverclan cat now #we love the long messages!!! questions get us thinking and its fun! #lolling response #anon ask #asked and answered #burning thistles #burning thistles au #mosspelt #frogleap #dawnflower #thistlestar #thistleclaw #leopardclan #adderfang

[creampuffqueen]

it's the way i'm getting needlessly attached to background characters in my works for me

put under a readmore cuz it got so long. read if you want to see me rambling about my own background characters that i've gotten obsessed with

take this: current fic has all the main characters in shadowclan. all of the clans have issues with each other but windclan and shadowclan have virtually no issues with each other

but i have gotten very attached to the windclan leader, gorgestar. he was deputy for about two seasons before he became leader, and working very hard to gain his clan's respect, as well as learning to lead when he got no experience before being thrown into the deep end.

and his mate, brindletail. she is a former kittypet-turned thunderclan warrior-turned windclan warrior. thunderclan found her when she was about apprentice aged, wandering around lost in the snow, and trained her to be a warrior.

so basically windclan and thunderclan are very pissed at each other for this. they spent all this time and effort making brindletail into a warrior, and then she goes and falls in love with a windclan cat, the leader no less, and switches clans right before leaf-bare, when they need the most capable warriors. windclan has a lot of warriors and a full apprentice den. thunderclan has neither. leafbare was very hard for them. they lost a lot of good cats. and now they're finally starting to just barely recover, and brindletail gets pregnant with gorgestar's kits, and, due to her kittypet heritage, has a massive litter of eight kits, bolstering windclan's ranks even further, while thunderclan has hardly enough warriors to keep itself afloat.

and the thunderclan cats!!! vixenstar is old as fuck. her deputy, morningcry, is similarly aged, and also her mate. morningcry is trying to convince her mate to let her retire and have another younger warrior take over as deputy, but stubborn vixenstar won't hear of it. she refuses to lead without morningcry by her side, believing the clan will be stronger for having its leader and deputy so close. morningcry is very worried because she a) does not want to be leader at all, especially at her age, and b) doesn't want an inexperienced deputy taking over when vixenstar dies, or else they'll be in the same situation as windclan. but vixenstar won't hear of it. she says when the clan recovers enough she'll appoint a new deputy. but it seems like her time is running out

and skyclan... poor skyclan. they literally have like eleven warriors. leafbare hit them the hardest of any of the clans, and they're trying so hard to not show it. but every single cat is having to work their tails off to keep the clan running. the queens and elders are having to help hunt to keep the fresh kill pile full. in between collecting herbs the medicine cat is hunting. the few apprentices are being run ragged patrolling, but not learning all the skills they really need since there's hardly enough time in the day. songstar is literally working until he collapses every single day, and sedgepad is soooo concerned for his health. this is very unsustainable but there's not much they can do

riverclan and shadowclan are at perpetual war with each other for... no reason... *wink wink*. littlestar is under scrutiny as the clans try to figure out the parentage of her kits. riverclan and shadowclan are huge, and although they have nothing against skyclan, they are pressing at their borders, so every clan is on edge. god it's a whole thing.

anyway rainpaw, drizzlepaw, and creekpaw my beloved

#mal's shitposts #mal's wips

[mallowstep]

I'd love to hear some ✨StarClan Slander✨ from you

starclan fucking sucks and i'm not afraid to say it.

ugh. where to begin.

okay, starclan sucks in a lot of different ways. like, a lot. it sucks from a narrative perspective, it sucks from a lives-of-cats perpsective, and it sucks from a worldbuilding perspective.

like: starclan is incredibly inconsistent as worldbuilding. it. gah. that part is most in my control when i write, so i try to really like. maximize said control. but if you compare the description of fireheart getting his nine lives to any modern starclan scene, it pisses me off. starclan is so fucking Cool, and now it's not.

i could go on for a while, but it's more of the same.

and then from a narrative perspective like. it causes so many problems. and i don't mean starclan causes problems for the characters, i mean starclan is simultaneously the cause of a lot of problems while the narrative wants us to believe they are the good guys. starclan causing problems? interesting. starclan causing problems but they're Very Good Actually? lazy.

this is a small thing but like it bothered in tbc? okay so. the fact that the clans' relationship to starclan has changed doesn't bother me. it's really interesting. they've been through this time of massive upheaval, something which often correlates with this uptick in spirituality.

i do not need convincing to believe that as the clans have gone through these past ten or fifteen years, with an exodus and the whole great battle (even setting aside the religious implications and just focusing on: big battle, lots of betrayal, lots of death), and everything with skyclan and darktail, yeah!

like, there was a spiritualism wave in the us after the civil war because that's what people/humanized cats do in those times. they latch on to spirituality and religion. why do you think witchcraft is on an uptick again in modern times?

however the problem is the Narrative never acknowledges this, which makes it feel not like an intentional culture change but authors being lazy. i'm not sure what's worse: authors just leaning on starclan because it's interesting and easy, or authors simply failing to convey the nuances of culture change.

whichever makes the erins sound better, pick that one. i have no lost love for them, but i try to keep my criticisms factual.

anyway, i digress, here's my favourite example:

in tbc, it's this Big Deal how the moonpool is the place of the medicine cats, and other cats cannot enter, Nope No Sir, which, like, really fucking confused me.

what?

do leaders not speak with starclan anymore? is that. is that not a thing?

i mean, in tpb, leaders visit the moonstone all the time. apprentices visit it before coming warriors. it's pretty normal.

and i'm fine with the culture of the clans changing for the moonpool to be a medicine cat exclusive: that does not fundamentally bother me. there's even the smallest nod to this idea in po3, during outcast, when they mention that the tradition of going to the moonstone/pool has fallen out of favour, and maybe that's bad.

and like, yeah, okay: i don't really understand Why it fell out of favour, especially in thunderclan. thunderclan had the Longest journey to the moonstone, and now they have either the shortest journey or one of the shortest, so there's really no excuse, but like. that's diaspora, you lose things, i'm okay with that.

what i'm not okay with is the sudden transformation of the moonpool to a Holy Place only Medicine Cats can touch. like, mothwing has been to the moonstone: she knows this isn't how it was. the others are young enough to not know, but then, when did this idea get started? who put it in their heads? why?

jayfeather has had so much pov, it wouldn't be hard to explain. he could've even taught alderpaw about it. or something could've been slipped into an early shadowpaw chapter. it really would not have taken much: a single line in outcast or something was all i needed to accept the moonstone/pool visitation tradition was dead (even if i think it should've continued), but unless i've forgotten, this is just. never explained.

this is how it Always Was (even though it wasn't, and there are cats who should Know it wasn't).

heck! heck! mistystar shared tongues with starclan in her novella. i don't remember where riverclan was during this scene in tbc, but my point is more. someone should've been able to say something. anything.

probably before the actual scene, given how few cats would know about this: bramblestar should since he was made a warrior in the forest territory, but i'll give the other leaders a pass. all i need is like. one line. from one cat. that's it. that's all i need.

finally, starclan obviously is uhhh. evil? it's evil, right, we can all agree? there is no evil starclan au we're In the evil starclan au, i should write a good starclan au.

the thing about this one is like. it's a product of the others. if starclan wasn't Real and Tangible, then like. then like. it wouldn't matter that they gave shitty advice and did terrible things, because now you just have cats dreaming of others, searching for answers in the Strict Code, and that would all make sense.

(did that paragraph like. read? i can't tell. basically, if starclan wasn't confirmed as a real thing with real dead cats, i would be fine with starclan cats being shitty and ooc, because now it's not actual cats we know and love, it's other cats' perceptions, memories, and inferences of them as they search their ancestors for guidance from the warrior code.

so of course their advice is going to be terrible and inconsistent and leafpool is going to decide spottedleaf said she should have kits and then starclan is going to backflip when the kits are born: all of that makes complete sense as long as starclan isn't an actual place. as long as it's just religion, just dreams and omens, there is no problem with that.)

and then if starclan like. if their role in the clans had been covered more thoroughly by the narrative. if how they gave shitty advice a lot was covered. i would also be okay with it.

but the best we get is mothwing's whole "yo uh. starclan doesn't save cats. i save fucking cats. give me my god damn credit for saving your fucking life." like that's a bad thing no. mothwing. queen. please continue ur so right.

and just as a cherry on top, the ableism in starclan is exhausting. it's its own thing, really, but like. i was talking with @foxstride about this. and like. how disabled cats will just have their disabilities erased.

personally, i'm okay with briarlight not being disabled in starclan. i think that makes sense for her character. i think it is Bad that the narrative's response to that was "now that she's dead she's finally happy again!", it should have been "thunderclan failed to give briarlight the actual support she needed to be happy", but the fact that she's not disabled in starclan doesn't actually bother me.

she was sick basically 100% of the time after her accident, and thunderclan was really shitty to her. do you remember how happy she was to "get" to sleep in the warriors' den? she was a fucking warrior that was her right.

thunderclan failed her, but the takeaway is "she couldn't be happy until she was dead and her disability was magicked away." that's bad. that's. i'm not okay with that part of it.

(briarlight deserves so much better than thunderclan.)

but for pretty much every other instance of it, there's none of that. maybe, maybe, you could make a similar argument for cinderpelt, but i would disagree with it.

my cinderpelt opinion is and always has been: she would never have chosen the path of being a medicine cat for herself, but she ultimately finds happiness and fulfillment with it. like, it wasn't right that she was forced to become a medicine cat because of her accident, but it was something she did ultimately enjoy and was happy to dedicate her life to. if she was given the chance to become a warrior after she had been a medicine cat for a while, she wouldn't have taken it.

it's part of why when i'm doing like. big time aus for warriors i still make her a medicine cat. because i like her growing to love it. i like that it's not right, how it happens, but she still loves it eventually. it's a very interesting idea to me that there aren't many characters to explore it through. jayfeather and alderheart are similar, but not in the same way. anyway i'm rambling because these are all the things i thought about when writing stolag, back on topic.

so i don't think cinderpelt should have her disability poofed by starclan, i think she should keep it. i also think that cats who are injured and then aren't disabiled in starclan should be representitve of that. they should be the age before they got injured.

briarlight should be apprentice aged, a hypo-cinderpelt should also be apprentice aged. this is something i'm fine with. i make hollyleaf apprentice aged in starclan because i think she was happiest before the ending of po3.

moving on: snowkit? can apparently hear? wtf?

and y'all already know how much i hate that jayfeather can see in his dreams. i said No that's Not Canon anymore and no one (no one) can stop me.

in conclusion: starclan is bad in a lot of ways, and if it weren't so damn inconsistently bad, i think i wouldn't hate it half as much.

<3

#ask #essay #starclan #anon #long #mine #txt

[houndleap]

Pinestar’s Choice | Chapter 4

He had been forced to watch his Clanmates starve around him as first floods then snow destroyed what little prey there was. Goosefeather’s idea of burying fresh-kill to preserve it had failed dismally when rain turned the clearing to mud and rotted the food before the cats could take a single mouthful. As the deputy of ThunderClan, Pineheart had felt painfully helpless, and as terrified as a kit.

i forgot he had been mentioned as the deputy during the big depressing famine in goosefeather’s book! i really love the continuity in this novella, honestly, and how it ties to the other ones - the fact that mapleshade is acknowledged is still pretty cool, even if i don’t agree at all with how she’s acknowledged, and i love that goosefeather is as well

it would have been interesting to be able to see goosefeather and pineheart interact more i think but oh well

Mistpelt grunted in agreement, and Pineheart felt a pang of sorrow for his former mentor. She had watched her denmate Nettlebreeze starve to death, along with many others in the long, harsh leaf-bare.

poor mistpelt ):

i like her a lot even if we didn’t get to see too much of her - i would have loved to see more interactions between pinepaw and her, though of course since this is a novella it’s not surprising that we didn’t

it’s interesting that she’s already an elder here! i hadn’t realised she was so old by this point; even with pinepaw, i had kinda assumed she was a younger new warrior, rather than one that was ready for retirement 

though then again, pineheart’s also been a warrior for a long time now i think - long enough to have raised his own apprentice and become deputy, long enough that oakstar has long kicked the bucket and doestar is probably going to die sometime soon as well, so maybe it’s just that we had a super long time skip

He may have grown scrawny, but he was still one of the tallest cats in ThunderClan, and his ears brushed the roof of Doestar’s cave.

i also really appreciate this little detail of him being a super big kitty - little mentions like this are really fun for comparison and shit

also suggests that this is why the authors always write tigerstar as being so big too, having that genetic inheritance

Doestar turned her head away. “Put it on the fresh-kill pile,” she rasped. 

Pineheart crouched beside her. “There is plenty of food to feed the Clan,” he told her. “I caught this for you.” 

The leader shifted so that she was looking up at Pineheart. “The fresh-kill pile is full?” 

Pineheart nodded. “Every cat on my patrol caught something. New-leaf is here, Doestar! Everything is going to be okay.” He pushed the squirrel closer and Doestar bent to take a bite. Goosefeather met Pineheart’s gaze over the leader’s head, and nodded in satisfaction.

the touches of characterisation here are delightful too - i like how just this gives some of the interaction i was just mentioning i wanted with goosefeather and pineheart, and we get to see how much of a caring leader to her clan doestar appeared to be in life

the latter of which, i think, will be even more interesting contrasted with what i think i remember hearing about that tigerkit warning

In the clearing, his Clanmates had gathered in little groups to share the fresh-kill. The pile had vanished, but Pineheart forced down the jolt of alarm in his belly. We will catch more tomorrow, he told himself. And the day after, and the day after that. ThunderClan does not have to starve anymore.

i do like that the starvation has left some trauma on his psyche too - he’s still used to being stressed out and worried about where to find food, so even this little thing from the freshkill pile being gone again due to everyone getting their food makes him scared for a second

A scuffle beside the apprentices’ den dragged Pineheart back to the present. Rabbitpaw and Moonpaw were squabbling over the ears of a rabbit. Pineheart trotted over and placed his paw on the contested scraps. Before the great hunger, prey ears would have been buried in the dirtplace or used as playthings for kits. Long moons of starvation had turned them into highly prized treats.

it’s just rlly interesting seeing the aftermath of this famine and the toll it took on everyone

to the point that these scraps of skin and fur are considered something worth fighting over, and pineheart has to tell these children who have known this suffering for as long as they can remember that they don’t have to feel like this anymore, and that they won’t have to worry about starving again

As he turned away, he saw Cloudberry watching him. The medicine cat was so frail that Pineheart could hardly believe she had survived the hunger. Somehow she had clung to life, eating bark and dry leaves with the rest of the Clan when prey had vanished altogether. And here she was, still caring for them all, still fussing over her Clanmates as if they were her kits.

god she’s just a fucking MAMA

i already know her from goosefeather’s story of course but i really like seeing her here too.... even if i know she’s gonna die in a bit [which is funny considering pineheart was literally just like woa she’s still alive] because the timeline has already said so, it’s still nice seeing her

“You’ll be fine,” Cloudberry meowed. “You are a brave and skillful warrior, just like your father was. ThunderClan deserves to be led by a cat like you.”

lads i feel like i keep needing to remind you all that his dad fucking sucked

do i have to bring up the three dead kits again!! i’m starting to feel like the ‘don’t make me tap the sign’ meme

“Ah, no,” sighed Doestar. She wriggled deeper into her nest, which was lined with glossy black rook feathers. “Deerpaw was here just now. Did you see her?” 

Pineheart froze. Deerpaw was Doestar’s littermate, who had died during her apprenticeship. Had she come to take her sister to StarClan? “I don’t see her now,” he mewed carefully. 

“Good,” Doestar grunted. “She was bugging me to go somewhere, but I don’t feel like leaving my nest today. Maybe tomorrow I’ll go with her.” 

Please don’t! Pineheart thought. I’m not ready to become leader! Stay until the Clan is fit and strong again!

i like this little touch of doestar just being like ugh i don’t feel like dying today. maybe tomorrow

i also like that pineheart is intensely worried and anxious about being leader - he doesn’t feel ready, he doesn’t want to be leader yet, maybe he doesn’t want to be leader at all

i don’t feel like we see much of that sort of view in warriors so that’s nice

The she-cat reached out and rested her paw on Pineheart’s foreleg. “I am so pleased that you will take care of ThunderClan after me,” she mewed. “It was an honor to serve your father, and I am only sorry that I won’t be here to watch you lead the Clan as well.” 

“But that won’t be for a long time. . . .” Pineheart started to object, but Doestar silenced him by gently pricking his leg with her claws. 

“We’ve known each other too long to tell lies now,” she meowed. “I have reached my ninth life sooner than I expected, but ThunderClan will be safe with you.

Don’t Make Me Tap The Sign!!!!!! stop praising this bastard cat jeez

i do love how doestar softly stabs him with her claws to when he tries to say that she’ll definitely still be around for ages - i would have loved to see more of them interacting as leader and deputy, they seem like they’d be a fun pair

you can tell they really care about each other a lot and it’s sweet

Your father never trusted RiverClan, remember.” Her eyes blazed in the dusky light.

yeah to the point that he killed kids for being half related to riverclan cats huh!!!!! we’re all just gonna accept and ignore that huh!!!!!!

Pineheart backed out of the den, unable to take his eyes from Doestar. Please don’t leave me yet! ThunderClan still needs you!

i just really appreciate how not ready pineheart is to be leader, and how much he’s begging for her to stay. this being the last sentence of the chapter also sets up for an easy cut to her death - which, while checking to make sure this was the last sentence of the chapter, i caught a glimpse of

five chapters in, and pinestar will finally come to being. and he will not be even a little bit ready, f

this was also another longer chapter, so i feel like i had a lot more to say

also i get the feeling i just ramble a lot in general

#novellas #pinestar's choice

[mallowstep]

For the love of god, please consider renaming some cats, I've seen names like

"One-Eye, Halftail, Oddfoot, FLIPCLAW (what kind of prefix is 'Flip'?) Twigbranch, Clawface etc. Don't get me started on those atrocious SkyClan names with KITTYPET PREFIXES

Harrybrook, Snookthorn, Rileypool

Like tf?

so i'm going to start with saying! as a general rule, i love these names. i will address them each in turn, but i don't have a problem with warriors having "bad names," i have a problem with names that don't make sense given their context.

it does not make sense for blackfoot to be named blackkit, when he's mostly white. (and, as a colorpoint cat, i assume, would be born entirely white.) etc.

but i have no problem with bellaleaf, because well, yeah! makes sense to me.

after all, leaf was named leafdapple, why shouldn't bella be named bellaleaf.

i'm going to discuss each name you brought up in turn, and then, under the cut, i'm going to ramble about naming philosphies.

one-eye: i'm fine with this. i don't mind cats being named after their disabilities, not when it's an established part of warriors culture. (even if it doesn't happen anymore because people would be pissed about it.) i don't know if i think it's right, or if i think cats would have a problem with it, but i think it's good. i'd like to think most cats wouldn't have a problem with it, though. that said, for one-eye in particular, her name was already white-eye, so it feels redundant. food for thought, i suppose.

halftail: i'm not okay with this, because he lost...half his tail? trust me, as someone who had a cat with half a tail, you don't notice it. doesn't make sense. he can keep sparrowpelt, altho tbh i almost always forget about him.

oddfoot: oops i forget him initially! i actually assumed he was named odd because of numbers or something, but apparently it’s a deadfoot situation. we don’t know his kit name, so i’ll assume he was named as either an apprentice or a warrior to fit. it wouldn’t make sense for him to just have the prefix odd, and i’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he didn’t. if he did, however, i would have a problem with it because that makes his name a compound name, not because his leader renamed him.

flipclaw: i don't have a problem with it. what kind of name is flipkit? the kind of name a mother would give who looks a lot like the cat who traumatized her, i think. more importantly, i think it's cute! doesn't bother me. would i name an oc flipkit? probably not, but that's just me.

twigbranch: oh no i love her name. i love it! it's so cute. it means something, too! it has meaning. nope. no one is taking twigbranch away from me. i love it.

clawface: mixed. i don't really have a problem with a cat being named clawkit, but it feels...violent. shrug. i don't like it, but like, i also don't like sandynose.

and i won't directly address skyclan because uh i already stated my thoughts on them.

skyclan in particular, tho, it actually makes a lot of sense for their names to be like that. there is no reason to apply any clan norms to skyclan names.

i really hope they keep their names, too. tradition and legacy of names is important to them (pebbleshine and violetshine for the most direct example, but it's everywhere), and i want that to stay. i love that leafstar named her kit harrykit. never change skyclan.

as always, i want to say that i do not have a problem with anyone's methodology of naming cats. i do not care. i support every single name in existence (barring certain combinations of color and "-face," and anything in that vein), and i do not want to come across as telling you what you should do.

that includes you, anon! i do not think you should listen to me when i say i like these names. i think you should rename them whatever you want. (i strongly suggest reconsidering skyclan renames, tho. there's established reasons in canon for them to have those names, and i think it's a cool cultural thing worth exploring. i keep meaning to write a funny lil one-shot about it.)

but you know! if you want to rename them, go for it! i support you!

that said, here is what i think (and i am not an authority on this in any way, shape, or form) about names:

i've written extensively about naming traditions in the clans. if you want to read that, "names. leaders. meaning" and "names part two" are where i recommend you look. (note: first link is to my main, before i migrated warriors content here.)

i'm not going to go over any of that in detail, because well, i'd rather talk about something new?

anyway, i don't think there's a reason to rename the vast majority of cats. i have very, very, few rules. heck, in ashes, i even had squilf come out and say that there's not even a problem with cats sharing a prefix.

the two cats i have renamed are yellowstorm and runningcloud, both for very specific reasons: -fang is a suffix that only makes sense if you're a warrior, and yellowfang names runningpaw runningnose, but in this au, sagewhisker names him, and she doesn't seem like the type to give that kind of name.

in yellowfang's secret, which i do generally treat as canon, yellowfang explains runningnose's name. i don't have a problem with her giving that name to him in the slightest. i just don't think sagewhisker would, and that overrode my general conservative approach to cat names.

but i do think, to an extent, cats are named for the world around them. i explored this in "without warning," where cats can be named after all sorts of strange things (elevator is my favourite), because well, they don't know what strange names are and are not.

so, for example, if there was a kit named, say, chaffinchkit, i would probably rename them, because i've set my warriors in the pnw, and there are no chaffinches in america.

i would just name the kit finchkit, because really, a chaffinch just a specific type of finch anyway.

i also refuse to name a kit maggotkit. there are probably other canonical prefixes in this nature that i refuse, but maggot is the big one that comes to mind.

but i don't care that ferns are green and cats aren't green. maybe it's a name passed down through the generations, one they don't even remember the origin of, but now, it is a thunderclan name.

or maybe, it is given to a riverclan cat simply because their mother thinks ferns are nice and soft.

none of that matters to me, because i personally find limiting name to appearance is incredibly boring, and gives up a really nice chance to worldbuild.

in "fair is the night," ivypool and tigerheart have a brief conversation exploring this.

"ThunderClan is different," he says. "You don't use names in the same way. You don't know the Ivy before you. But ShadowClan isn't like that. Dawnpelt knows Dawncloud and Flametail knows Flamefur, but...I have Tigerstar." "That seems ineffective," Ivypool says. "You can get more mileage out of your names. Here, Ivy is for grey kits, right? But wiry ones. We need strong roots. And Dove is for grey kits, or white ones, but its for the ones who are born soft."

they go on, but i would never pass up an opportunity to explore that type of thing. (and yes i see the typo)

similarly, i like the renaming system. i am like, this close to saying i love it.

the only reason i don't make brightheart lostface in everything i write is because it'd be too much of a headache to remind people, and i also don't want to needlessly invite arguments about it.

she keeps her name in "saccharine tithes of love and glory" because it's the kind of au where i can throw small things like that, without worrying, because it fits, tonally.

i wish it didn't set a fic in a very specific tone, but it does, and so, i usually use brightheart.

(also, it's clear that she prefers brightheart in the books, and i respect that. i don't think, in my culture, that makes sense for her, but i've talked about my works as being on a spectrum between canon and me, and most stuff is far enough away from me that i call her brightheart.)

anyway.

part of it is, renaming cats is imposing my rules over canon. i feel that saying "flipclaw should be named something else" asserts that my world is correct, and canon is wrong.

like, tallstar as a name does not make sense in my windclan. a kit can't be tall, and i've established that windclan names are very literal. but i've let it go, because i chose to make that a rule, and now i live with it.

i hope i didn't come off as prescriptivist, here, because i honestly believe if you want to rename cats, you should. i'd even be happy to discuss alternatives.

for clawface, might i suggest scorchface? (the suffix is malleable, frankly, but i don't feel like thinking much about it.) scorch deliberately has negative connotations in shadowclan, so you keep the same effect as clawface. especially since it just kind of sounds ominous.

but as for what i will do, it is not rename cats. i like their names (especially skyclan's), in all their idiosyncratic glory.

#ask #anon #long #essay #names #warriors names #traditional naming #name discourse #kind of? #mine #txt #warriors #warriors culture #warriors worldbuilding #4th #June #2021 #June 4th 2021