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avannak · 5 years

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Alright, I’mma talk about Hiccstrid in this latest film.

I loved their interactions. They were so natural, so sure of themselves, so comfortable. They’re secure. They can joke about the other’s less-than-stellar features or about their relationship.

Yes, marriage was something that loomed on the horizon, and both were aware of it and both knew it wasn’t the time. Hiccup had a thousand things going on, he was in over his head, and even if he would be willing to jump foot-first into something to get one portion of the village off his back for a spell, Astrid had the level head to know it just wasn’t feasible.

((On a side note, did anyone hear that viking say ‘it’s about time’ or something to that effect in the audience of their wedding? Yeah, Berk had been waiting for this))

That moment on the flamey boat and the sexy fire music? Yeah, we all know the one. We all know the gifs that will be coming out of this film, paired to the first film’s sexy fire music opening. That was hot. I thought that was a pretty clear representation of the spice in their relationship.

Astrid has trained Hiccup. I could write a whole other post about just Hiccup and his athletics in this film alone and all it implies, but for now I’ll just say it’s pretty clear she’s taken it upon herself in the past few years to make sure he can cover the battle-side of being a chief. And Hiccup has made sure Astrid is pretty up to date on his inventions. They know each other inside and out.

I didn’t fully appreciate the clunky implication that Astrid’s new role will be helping Hiccup Be Chief, when there’s so much more to her (thanks Tuffnut, for balancing that out with ‘Warrior Queen’ and making us aware that Hiccup, too, needs to measure up). Obviously, this is a spot she’s going to fill, if only by their natural alignments, but there were so many ‘romantic partner obligation’ allusions that I wasn’t into. Not a good storytelling choice to take, imo. It didn’t fit with the HTTYD theme of friendship and love.

I did, however, enjoy how they didn’t completely align in their views, be it priorities or on how to run things, but that still Astrid used her Very Viking ways to help Hiccup get the platform and support he needed to get things done.

There is ONE THING I am going to call out:

“You gave him his freedom, Hiccup. What did you expect?”

Fuck you, Astrid.

...That was my initial thought. Still is, to be honest.

I get that it’s part of her personality -- blunt and hard -- and Hiccup loves her for it because in the long run they work well together like that. There are a couple other instances in the movie where she’s sharp and direct to help Hiccup focus, as they’ve always worked, and those were fine. But this entire line was just... bullshit.

The implication that Hiccup had been holding Toothless captive? ‘Give him his freedom?’ What the fuck? The complete lack of sensitivity when it really wasn’t necessary, not to mention cruel? That’s what it was: it wasn’t constructive, it was cruel. That was definitely a ‘fuck you, Astrid’, and this is coming from Astrid’s biggest defender.

Hiccup gave Toothless independence--independence he was capable of receiving should he have wanted it--and asked him to come back by sundown. He took a great gamble for the sake of Toothless’ happiness while Toothless was being actively hunted, and that’s her response?

I kinda had to get that off my chest because it was just... irredeemable.

On an aside, a part of me absolutely loves HTTYD3 just for the sheer amount of Hiccup-whump? Is that the term? But yeah, the amount of stress and isolation, not only assumed for the past year but also for what’s ahead... there’s so much angsty potential in this.

#httyd #THW #HTTYD3 #Hiccstrid #Astrid Hofferson #Hiccup Haddock #httyd3 talk #recs rants rambles #THERE I SAID IT #I LOVE THEM AND ASTRID BUT THAT ONE LINE #WAS LIKE #WHAT THE FFFFFF

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inhonoredglory · 5 years

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I think Snotlout should have died in HTTYD3. He's been there from the beginning, losing him would be a reminder what's at stake, if they keep fighting. As a character, in the movies at least, he was never entirely redeemed from that competetive bully he was in the first movie, and I think having him die saving Hiccup, would sement him both as a hero and as a painful loss, to drive home how dangerous this war is, and that having dragons stay with the vikings will only cause more pain for all.

Hey anon! This is an interesting proposition. Lots of folks in the fandom were speculating heavily that he might be killed in the third film (especially since he sacrifices himself for Hiccup in the book series). I get what you’re saying about how it might drive home the magnitude of the war and of Grimmel’s threat. Some of us have been postulating that the film needed more of that development in order for the evacuation to feel more relevant, and for the drastic choice of leaving their dragons to feel more necessary in the context of the world.

I want to answer your question in two phases: one about Snotlout’s development, and one about the implications to the film his death might have provided.

The Redemption of Snotlout in the HTTYD Films

First off, I do believe Snotlout did redeem himself, even just within the context of the films.

Of course, outside the films, we get lots of development and growth for him: him growing into a mutual respect and understanding of Hiccup regarding their father’s expectations (Not Lout), his staying in danger to save Hiccup rather than leave him (Sandbusted). He might complain and object to many of Hiccup’s ideas, but in the end of the series, he’s shown to be a loyal warrior who shares a mutual support and respect for Hiccup.

Now, of course the thrust of this question is what’s Snotlout’s arc in the film trilogy. Again, I believe Snotlout does demonstrate significant change from his identity as a bully in the first film: In the beginning of the first film, he’s pretty vicious to Hiccup, getting up in his personal space and making a huge deal out of his jabs at him. He’s doing it because he wants to impress Astrid, he’s doing it to make up for the fact that he (a model Viking) isn’t going to be one leading the village when they grow up, he’s doing it to make up for his own insecurities (with his parental expectations). He’s actually a pretty sensitive, emotional boy––and he makes a marked change in the film from being a bully to being one of Hiccup’s most enthusiastic fans. Once Hiccup begins to demonstrate his skill with dragons in the training ring, we see Snotlout actively trying to buddy up with Hiccup, not undermine him with insults and jeers:

In the end, we see Hiccup basically forgive Snotlout for everything he’s done to him by choosing him to be the first of the teens to befriend a dragon. I don’t think it’s lost on Hiccup that Snotlout, the Viking who wanted the most to be the tough and “Vikinglike” ideal of his culture (and who was most insecure about it, unlike Astrid, who had confidence in her abilities)… I don’t think all this was lost on Hiccup when he chose him to be the one to train the dragon (a Monstrous Nightmare) each one of the gang saw as the most ferocious, most unattainable, most dangerous of dragons (the prize dragon they all wanted a chance to kill at the end of training). By giving Snotlout the honor of befriending this dragon, Hiccup is allowing Snotlout to win––for once, in a reputable, sincere way he can be proud of.

True, Snotlout was a bully. He wanted approval and attention. He attacked Hiccup in order to raise himself up. And when Hiccup became skilled and popular, Snotlout allied with him in order to get close to where the wave of popularity flowed. But when Hiccup let him train Hookfang, it was more than just getting close to the popular kid: Snotlout had to put his trust in Hiccup for a moment, he had to actively show vulnerability to Hiccup. The scene is the pinnacling contrast between where Hiccup and Snotlout have come in the course of the film––now Hiccup is the powerful individual, and Snoltout, the one afraid and undone. But again, this is Hiccup not lording it over Snotlout, like Snotlout has done in all his insults. Hiccup is instead offering a truce, an equality with Snotlout:

So when Hiccup is thought dead, Snotlout reacts with horror and shock and ultimately, when they find him to be alive, tears of joy. This support of Hiccup actually continues in the second film, and while unfortunately we don’t get a lot of action between him and Hiccup, we do get a few significant moments: Snotlout sheds the same earnest tears for Hiccup and Stoick as he did at the end of the first film.

And when Hiccup is made chief at the end, where Snotlout is as happy and thrilled to see Hiccup succeed––this is a direct parallel to his reaction when Hiccup fought the Red Death.

So IMO the films are telling the same story as the series, that Snotlout the bully is actually sensitive and redeemable through the challenging but ultimately successful relationship with Hiccup, his adversary.

Which leads me into the third film.

Sacrificing Snotlout to Weigh the Severity of the Threat in THW

To be frank, I am slightly confused by in terms of their choice of plot for Snotlout. I adore the book allusions of his designs for the chieftainship, but I’m not sure if this particular need of Snotlout was resolved very much for him in the end. I believe his insistence on closeness with Valka is a reaction partly to Stoick dying a year before, seeing how Stoick was a much more reasonable and sympathetic father figure to Snotlout than Spitelout ever was. He didn’t demonstrate any disappointment in Hiccup becoming chief (HTTYD2) and over the series, he’s been ultimately supportive of Hiccup’s future position of leadership. The bitterness in the third film might be a reaction to the vacuum in his life upon the loss of both a place of tribal importance and Ruffnut’s affections (total speculation territory for that one), and especially the threat of masculine dominance with the introduction of Eret to the tribe. Knocking on Hiccup has been his go-to in the first film, and that weakness crops up again in the third film. In the end, he gains Valka’s approval and Tuffnut’s friendship––perhaps a meta on their shared loneliness in their own individual perceived failings in the “Vikingness”/masculinity department (re: Tuffnut’s beard anxiety).

Snotlout, for all the growth he’s done over the series and even over the films, isn’t really given much of a “place” in the tribe in the third film. Valka’s approval of him in the end (him having “the brains” between him and Eret) feels more like a consolation rather than a genuine praise, despite Snotlout taking it at face value. Honestly, I feel that Snotlout is still looking for something, and we’re not sure where exactly he’ll end up in the post-HTTYD3 world.

Which is why a scenario where Snotlout instead dies at the end of Act 2 is actually really attractive. It wouldn’t really be to redeem him from his first movie self, but to give his arc somewhere important to go with his conflict with Hiccup and his belief in Hiccup’s leadership––to continue his arc and bring it full circle in a positive, rather than negative, way. If he had sacrificed himself for the good of tribe, it would more be a continuation of what we’ve seen of him in the series (both films and TV shows), rather than a redemption. It would allow him to pour his long-seen bravado and ambition for greatness into something definite and concrete, a moment where all that growth leads up to. And yes, I’d agree with you here: it would cement him as a hero.

And it would definitely drive the threat home. It was Stoick’s death, after all, that made the Bewilderbeast and Drago’s control of him so powerful and shocking. I’ve said before that the threat in THW needed to be made real on both the personal and global scale. Snotlout sacrificing himself could provide the personal stakes that make the threat feel real, and it would have been a good allusion to the sacrifice of the dragons that must occur later in the film.

However, I can see why DeBlois and Co. didn’t choose this path. Stoick already died in the second film and it’s hard to give that kind of significance to another character’s death, especially when he’s a supporting character and there’s already so much emotional time and energy used on the goodbye between the dragons and humans. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but it’s certainly difficult to pull off.

Additionally, we already have a major sacrifice moment in the third film, with Hiccup letting go of the Light Fury to save Toothless. That moment is important for the emotional heart of the film and having one similar with Snotlout would have been too close a beat in so short a time. Again, it’s not impossible to resolve but it would make it challenging.

You can probably still pull the same themes for Snotlout we’ve been discussing here with him nearly dying in the film. A greater impact of the threat on the lives of any of the gang would make for higher stakes and a feeling that the impact of Grimmel is upon individuals other than Hiccup (so thus we can surmise, the world).

You’ve made me super curious to contemplate a version of THW where this happens and how it might make the overall narrative feel. (*adds to things I may add in my fix-it fic*)

Thanks for the question! I spent hours on it I hope it’s relevant LOL.

#httyd3 spoilers #httyd3 #httyd thw #how to train your dragon 3 #how to train your dragon: the hidden world #httyd #snotlout #httyd3 criticism #long post #httyd analysis #analysis #*myanalysis #*mythoughts #anonymous #httyd3 analysis #my analysis #*mymeta

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itistimetodisappear · 5 years

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I know you posted a long post a while ago about httyd3 and I didn't read the whole thing it bc I hadn't seen it yet but... I agree with what you said about toothless not really having a personality anymore. It would've been much better imo if he had returned at least once after being "freed"... and then hiccup "making" him go would've been much more poignant. I am going to go see it a second time bc I was very tired the first, but tbh I think the 2nd movie deserves more praise than this one.

Httyd3 was a good movie, but it’s messy sometimes. I very much agree with ya, i feel like the bond between hiccup and toothless wasn’t very well executed. I feel like Gift of the night fury did a better job in that aspect.

A defence could be that, ‘toothless didn’t return to show the importance of not being dependent in a relationship. That you should know who you are outside of a relationship’. And I definitely think hiccup learns that lesson. But toothless did not learn that lesson. Infact, he didn’t really learn anything.

I think that happened because in httyd3, Hiccup as a true main character, as in, he learns things and has an arc. Toothless isn’t treated the same way. He feels like a plot device, a half-character. There isn’t a need for toothless to learn lessons and have an arc in httyd3 because toothless isn’t a true main character, he’s not equivalent to hiccup.

Which is a fundamental contradiction to the story, which says dragons are equal to humans. When ideas within the narrative contradicts the way a narrative is told like this, I believe it’s called ludonarrative dissonance. Which is why messages seem a bit mixed in httyd3

#httyd #httyd3 #how to train your dragon

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hereisisa · 4 years

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I wouldn't consider F2 a good movie just by how many people praising it, too. And tbh if it was a good movie, why'd it keep fall flat on its face every time it was compete against other movies? First Missing Link, then TS4, HTTYD3, Klaus and others. I get it the writers wanted to try something new, deliver new message, teach new lesson... But they must know Frozen is not the right one to throw in those lessons. Might as well make a new movie for those lessons and leave the girls alone.

I feel like they took a risk with this movie, and it didn’t pay off in terms of reviews and awards. And it shouldn’t. Ofc from the pov of the money...they won, but kids just go to watch the movie no matter what, they don’t read reviews LOL so that’s not very telling, IMO.

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luckycheesefoodie321 · 5 years

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I’m about to unleash a LONG review of HTTYD3: The Hidden World RIDDLED with spoilers sooooo... (this is probably trash, it’s been several days since i started this so idk the flow and my thought process was a mess but i better post this now before i forget)

Spoiler free review: 9/10, I did cry, personally felt it was on par with HTTYD2 butttt I like it in a different way to HTTYD2... the animation? ferguckin’ gorgeous, there are fracking LEVELS to the beauty of the Hidden World (the actual place and the movie)...and Astrid’s hair??? mmmm yeah goals

OK SPOILERS UNDER THE CUT (and it looooong yall)

Ok so time to explain the 1/10:

the flow wasn’t as smooth?? as it could have been... it all made sense why things happened and where the motivations came from but...the transitions from sequence to sequence seemed...a little disjointed??? there were parts (maybe it was because i had a kid with me so I got distracted in like two parts) where I was like “oh wait something is happening?? oh wait no yeah I get it sure...so it took me second to realise how one scene got to the other (but again that might’ve been because i was distracted.)...and as a result of the slightly jarred flow, the pace seemed a little disrupted??? maybe it’s just me wanting more, but it felt like things could’ve been a bit...meatier??

also, this was a very Hiccup and Toothless film (I mean obviously, and this isn’t necessarily a bad thing, and I intend to discuss how great it is later), and so it sorta left little fulfilment or finality for the side characters...they all had their moments sure, and somewhat of an end, but i feel like just a minute here and there more to give them a more satisfying character ending would’ve been nice...

NOW ONTO THE 9/10, and since we’re here already, let’s talk side characters

OUR DRAGON SQUAD

Tuffnut finally got a chance to shine for more than a second of screentime, and while he remained the comedic relief he’s always been (in the films, haven’t seen the shows or short films), it was fun to see him branch out and engage with Hiccup directly...the continuous through-line of him and his beard and trying to impart wisdom on Hiccup was great... Ruffnut also got some solid screentime and she finally made her choice of man (when really she didn’t have any for reasons I will explain later) and “accepted” Fishlegs...but idk didn’t care about that, her scene when she was “captured” by Grimmel was fantastic...Kristen Wiig delivered perfectly from intonation to comedic timing, loved her work!

Snotlout...I literally had to pause a few seconds just now after typing his name bc *sigh*...we all know Snotlout’s has mild braggadocio...he spitting words with no follow through...annnd that doesn’t much change??? He’s still trying to front and compete with Hiccup and then Eret, and that was originally his charm point...but I would’ve liked to see him find validation in himself rather than an intentional compliment from Valka...and speaking of Valka??? Snotlout just latching onto the closest woman likkkkeeee Snotlout calm down you’re like 40 years younger than her??? maybe not 40 but point is Valka is a badass dragon momma who really isn’t going your way...I just wanted Snotlout to have his moment...

Fishlegs...yeah he was all dragon daddy carrying his baby Gronkle around and also enjoying his baby Gronkle and that big dragon’s friendship...also Ruffnut has claimed him...bc Snotlout is chasing Valka...so there’s no real option for her (she moved on from Eret and her self-confidence is kinda dope)

HOMIE ADULTS

Eret, son of Eret...I wanted more of him...he just hanging around making passing comments and being the knowledgeable other about Grimmel...and then he had a little something something implied with Gobber??? they had some scenes that had me side-eyeing hardcore... Gobber basically has the same relationship he had with Stoick, but with Hiccup...general calling him out, questioning his lack of planning...just sorta done with everything...true sassy queen...and also yeah him and Eret??? suss

Valka, my queen, my dragon wizard lord who floats through the clouds... maintains her badassery and voice of wisdom role but again steps back to make way for Hiccup and Toothless...and she encouraged Snotlout, for which I am not down...like sure support him but ugh you know he’s into you so just...just...no

MAIN CHARACTERS

Grimmel...definitely a more fleshed out villain than the Red Death and Drago...not necessarily a complex villain, but he was a lot smarter and impacted Hiccup in a way the other two didn’t...rather than using blood and fire to cut to Hiccup’s core, he lured Toothless away and forced Hiccup into a sobering reality that he and Toothless can’t always be together...that said, his “death” was kinda lame...could’ve had more of a bang than probably drowning

The Light Fury was used in an interesting way...she’d already been captured and was used as bait, not just stumbled upon in the wilderness as I had assumed from the trailers...I enjoyed how she was so clearly a wild dragon...from the way she responded to Toothless and his attempts at flirting, spurred him to tap into his true potential and abilities that Valka had alluded to in HTTYD2, to how she always trying to get him to come away into the sky and away from the humans...that said I love how she gradually warmed up to Hiccup...not in the way Toothless did, but in a way where you knew she acknowledged that Hiccup was someone who was important to Toothless, and had no desire to harm her or other dragons and the fact she was the one who saved both Toothless and Hiccup at the end was great...

Astrid, once again, is the only one (aside from Valka, and apparently Eret) with any real sense, both common and fighting...she’s kept to her roots as a skilled fighter in her own right, as opposed to the others relying heavily on their dragons...her chemistry with Hiccup continued to be adorable and flirtatious and pure and wholesome and with all the mad banter...her being so firm against being married so quickly bouncing off Hiccup’s clearly apparent willingness to tie the knot was an adorable under-plot...her character was probably the most consistent of all the characters imo...and she got a fulfilling ending...plus once again, her hair, ESPECIALLY IN THE WEDDING SCENE WAS SO FRIGGEN GORGEOUS AND BEATS ALL ANIMATED HAIR EVER

And now the boys of the hour, Hiccup and Toothless

This was a Hiccup and Toothless film. No side story about his mom and dad, no arbitrary villain just there to cause conflict. This was a film about two best friends in an increasingly complicated world realising that in order to tackle that world? They’d have to separate. It’s the same feeling as realising that the people you grew up with or the friends you made in school won’t be able to stay by your side anymore. You each have a path to take and it’s not one that can be shared...maybe run parallel at times but not the whole way. This is what our boys had to face.

I love love LOVED that there were sooo many parallels to the first movie...ugh to have that footage so I can count and display all the moments that just brought you back to all the charm and things you fell in love with in the first movie, but with more meaning, more stories to tell...it’s like when I saw Miley Cyrus sing The Climb again many many years after the Hannah Montana movie...there was suddenly more depth to her performance...this was the vibe I got..and it was obviously intentional in bringing so many parallels to the first movie...bringing the story full circle and all that, and of course it culminated in the most perfect moment, the moment that started us all on this journey...

BUT IN THE MOTHERFRACKING REVERSE!!! this was the moment that let those tears slip...I had gone in expecting to cry, but had far and away found myself having more fun and slowly accepting that maybe...maybe I wouldn’t cry in this movie...we got to the big goodbye, and I embodied my inner Jake Peralta and was like cool cool cool no tears yet, I can make it through and then BAM! they did the reverse hand touch and tears were spilled, and my friends were just watching me with unbridled glee in the dark as I got emotional...I’d been watching with increasing suspicion as moment after moment echoed the first movie, but somehow I didn’t realise they would do the reverse hand thing...maybe it’s because the hand thing had been embedded in every moment that Hiccup and the dragon riders encountered new dragons that I did not expect he would ever have to do it to Toothless again?? but in reverse???? because he was letting GO?!?!?!?!?! god it hit me hard...

But then a downside: they started to overuse it in the prologue-y sorta bit with the kids and meeting Toothless again...liiikkkeeee we already had that major impactful, emotional moment...why overuse it??? i would’ve much rathered they just gazed at each other for a bit before Toothless suddenly gives his signature toothless grin...or he swoops in and grabs Hiccup by the pegleg into the air, freaks everyone out, only to do the upside down grin thing- that would’ve been great...I mean they had that moment with the Light Fury but I wouldn’t have minded if they used that one again...

my mind is wandering and this probs doesn’t make any sense at this point sooo: the separation thing! good they established the over-reliance on the dragons and Hiccup’s thinking he can’t do well without Toothless, and Astrid, my QUEEN, coming in and telling him what’s what...and also not marrying him until he was more certain of himself because she knew if he wasn’t ready to face the world alone, he wasn’t ready to face the world with her (at least that’s my interpretation and again idk where I’m going with this thought process)...also love that Hiccup was lowkey jealous of the Light Fury...also also glad she never got a name...keeps her wild, as she should be...

I think this was definitely an incredible ending to an incredible trilogy of films...maybe not Toy Story perfect, but it was full of heart and emotion and continuously brought you back to all the wonder of the first film. Literally, there were so many parallels to the first film it was insane...while I talked about disjointed flow earlier, this incorporation of these callbacks was so well embedded, becoming just a natural proceeding of events...

I’m coming back to this review after several days so idk where I was going with this soooo just gonna wrap this up:

ASTRID’S WEDDING HAIR WAS GOALS. THE END.

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the-fanaddict · 5 years

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I’m only going to make one (1) post about httyd3′s shortcomings because I really want to focus on the things I liked

Warning: kinda nitpicky

I really want to like it, I really do. There are so many good things, but also so many things that bothered me as well.

Conceptually, this movie is great. It’s everything I wanted. As a book fan, I was really excited since 20 fucking 13 that the movies were gonna follow the books ending where they explain why dragons don’t exist. I got even more excited after reading the last book because Cressida set it up so that the movie could easily follow that.

And they did, and the final speech was literally the first book’s opening narration, despite the dragons gone Hiccup and Toothless meet occasionally. Conceptionally, the books and movies have the same ending, but it wasn’t executed well.

I love the concept of ‘what is hiccup without toothless’ because I relate to Hiccup’s anxiety. It makes sense narratively because Toothless so far in the movies that have been saving the day (especially in 2). Not to undermine what Hiccup does in the previous 2, but as Astrid said, Toothless made it easier, and I feel like Hiccup would brush away his achievements as “doing his best” or “this is nothing”, and the moment he does become confident, his plans always go awry (hoo boy especially in httyd2).

I love the concept of Grimmel being essentially what Hiccup could’ve been if he killed Toothless. I like that we get an explanation of where did all the night furies go.

While I’m not a fan of the Light Fury, I still felt that I would’ve liked it if it was executed well, or if they didn’t focus on it too much (kinda like Hiccstrid, which as a ship i’m really neutral on).

But none of those concepts felt fleshed out or had much weight.

Why the dragons are no more felt more like it was shaped as ‘Toothless leaves Hiccup for the Light Fury’ than ‘Humans don’t deserve dragons or ‘there will always be Dragon Hunters’. All Hiccup said was that ‘our world doesn’t deserve you, yet’ but never showed why. I really wish there were more lines to this part because Hiccup in the books gave this amazing speech about Dragons and Vikings and guh.

This is where show, don’t tell is very important. I feel like they could’ve shown this better with Grimmel. Grimmel and the warlords didn’t feel threatening imo, even though he killed all the night furies. I think the story could’ve benefitted from some kind of flashback to Grimmel killing Night Furies. Not only would we possibly get a baby toothless flashback and get more of a threatening feel, it would’ve also been an interesting parallel to httyd2 when all the chieftans get killed by Drago.

In fact, I feel like this movie is more lighthearted than httyd1. I’m okay with httyd3 not being darker than httyd2. Dean said himself it would be less dark during httyd2. It’s just that I was thinking it would be more like httyd1, simple in story, amazingly executed and pacing. In a way, I wanted it to be more like Kung Fu Panda 3, where it was more tonally similar to Kung Fu Panda 1 than the darker plot line of KFP 2.

There were no moments that established how big the stakes are. Again, a flashback to Night Furies would’ve helped. While I like Grimmel as a villain more, Drago and the Red Death felt more threatening as antagonists. The Red Death, even when it wasn’t introduced until 2/3 of the way in, still was very threatening. She not only ate 1, but 2 dragons on screen (that poor zippleback, I still cringe). Also, dragon big.

We really got to see the extent of Drago’s cruelty with Eret’s brand, that one shot where that dragon that got their wings stuck in a trap, Stoick’s Death, the way he just fucking mounted Toothless afterwards, his huge ass fleet, etc.

I was thinking there would be some fight for the Hidden World, and that Hiccup would ironically fulfill what his father told him in that flashback by sealing up the Hidden World, but Grimmel didn’t even know about it. It just existed for the dragons to eventually go to.

I didn’t want to say this, but I think the TV series really did a disservice because even Ryker, Viggo, Krogan, and Johann felt more threatening. (Though in general I prefer them more than the movie villains because the show has more time to flesh them out). But even then the show still built up Drago as the biggest bad, so :/

Speaking of Drago, it would’ve been better if he was saved for httyd3 than introduced in httyd2. While I don’t know if httyd2 would’ve been a better movie had Valka been the antagonist, but I feel like httyd3 definitely would’ve been a better movie. It also makes me realize how much the overall plan for httyd2 and httyd3 was changed from its original structure back in 2013 or whenever Dean had the plan for the trilogy.

I wish Dean stuck with his vision because it was a good concept instead of throwing in a new villain last minute and tossing out the one you were going to flesh out. (Though I kinda agree with Spielberg and Del Toro that fleshing out/redeeming Drago would’ve taken up a lot of screen time).

In terms of the Light Fury, not my cup of tea. Idk, I don’t hate it, but I don’t like it either. In a way, it’s in the same boat as Hiccstrid for me. I don’t know what I’d do different to make them better other than like, scrap her and have Toothless find a pocket of Night Furies in the Hidden World ala KFP3, which would’ve been cooler and probably make just as much sense since Grimmel doesn’t know what the hidden world is.

Speaking of Toothless, I do kinda agree with some people saying that Toothless didn’t seem to care much about Hiccup as much as Hiccup did for Toothless. It’s there, but once again, it needs to be fleshed or have some more subtle moments. HTTYD2 did a great job with this even though most of httyd2 wasn’t even Hictooth focused.

But Overall, the more I think about it the more I realize it could’ve been done better with some tweaking with pacing. Not that the scenes we have feel long, but like pacing in terms of prioritizing what needs to fleshed out. I think they focused on the wrong things. The Light Fury, for one, and also the Gang. As much as I love the focus they got (RUFFNUT IS QUEEN), I think it really did a disservice to the plot.

Anyways that’s all I’m going to talk about in terms of what I dislike. I’m going to focus on what I like and reminis on this whole trilogy, because hey. It’s over. A significant part of my childhood/teenhood (because I discovered this series when I was 14) is over and I’m not going to hang up on last leg of this series just because it wasn’t 100 percent how I envisioned it.

#httyd #httyd3 #httyd3 criticism

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catalystic-dragons · 5 years

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Post contains httyd3 spoilers under the cut, you have been warned.

Idk, y’all. I saw the hidden world on its day of release in the uk, which was the 1st, and after the initial emotions, tears, etc, I’ve had some time to reflect on it.

I have to say, I don’t think it’s as good as the first two. The gags seemed,,, forced. Snotlout’s into hiccup’s mum? Not really the joke I would have gone with. It didn’t,,,, feel like it flowed as well? And things are so obviously, obviously cut from it. Where’s all that glow toothess hype gone??? It ISN’T in the film. AT ALL. So it’ll be in the DVD cuts, which is annoying. It was heartfelt in places, absolutely, but we saw so little of the hidden world it was almost sad. I know why - it’s hidden, after all, and it shouldn’t be for our eyes because we’re the reason dragons had to seal themselves away. I get that, but like,,,,,,,, you named the movie after it. And at the end, they just. Gave up their dragons. No fight, no fuss. They just let them go. I expected something a lot more heartwrenching, especially with people like Valka, who lived with dragons for years of her life, isolated from people. Cloudjumper was a dragon who she formed a bond that was arguably as strong as the one Toothless and Hiccup shared. Also, the gang was still goofy and uncoordinated, but that wasn’t really what I was expecting. Snotlout still be belligerent, of course. The twins still as bizarre as ever, absolutely. Fishlegs as nerdy and in adoration of meatlug, yes - but idk they just seemed to,,, be as same as ever, no development. It was strange. These guys are good at working together - they’re a team, right? But it wasn’t until the very end they felt like it, even though they were great together in the second film. Also Fishlegs had barely any interactions with Meatlug what the fuck. Also Valka wasn’t at the end, with Hiccup, Astrid and their kids, implying she’d either died (which, when parted from cloudjumper, maybe?) or just,,, hadn’t come. Which is really unlike her, when given a chance to see her beloved friend again.

They didn’t use a sadder version of forbidden friendship when the dragons said goodbye - OR romantic flight when Hiccup and Astrid got married. You’re missing a chance there to really kill us, Powell! I don’t know. I felt there were a lot of things that could have been tightened up and ironed out in this one, something I did not feel with the other two movies at all. The score wasn’t as strong, I didn’t think - there were no tracks that really stood out to me like the first two movies. There wasn’t a defining piece for me, like forbidden friendship or stoick’s ship. I don’t know. I would say it’s my least favourite of all three movies. The visuals were amazing, as always. The voice acting was great. The villain? I enjoyed him; he was malevolent and cunning and I really did like that. But a lot of it was just,,,,,,,,, not as good as the other films, imo. My personal opinion though; please don’t take it to heart.

#httyd3 spoilers #httyd 3 spoilers #httyd 3 #httyd3

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peachdoxie · 5 years

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I finally got around to seeing HTTYD3 and I nearly cried it was so good! When Toothless is leaving and all the dragons roar to say goodbye was JUST TOO MUCH. Now excuse me while I go buy the credits song...

Tbh that scene is one of the most beautifully composed of the entire franchise imo

#httyd 3 #how to train your dragon #httyd 3 reactions #sunshineladybugsawake

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kiwidetective · 5 years

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Not to be a bubble buster but httyd3 was kinda really disappointing compared to the other movies. Imo it looked like the creators didn't actually care about making a good movie, they just cared about completing the trilogy. Everything was mediocre and sloppy and expected. Although I did get reminded about how good the soundtrack was though so that's one positive :/

#my post #don't waste your money watching it i guess unless you're really invested

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justgotawesome · 5 years

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arrakeen replied to your post “I still can not stop thinking about HTTYD3 and just how pathetic it...”

mmm, the ending took me out of it and reminded me a bit of how the ending to the Harry Potter series fell a bit flat with the time skip. I was hoping that they'd at least have the dragons split up their time between their world and the berkians. a very pretty movie, but the build up wasn't good imo. it all felt too easy. i'll probably see it again but like. hhhhhh.

Yeah the HP time skip was a weird moment. And I agree about the build-up to the ending, they wanted to get to this moment but then they wrote everything to lead to the opposite happening, yet it doesn't. Not sure how they managed to do that.

#arrakeen #httyd #httydthw

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crazy4dragons · 7 years

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Review: RTTE S5

After having some time to distance myself from my gut reaction to S5, I decided to finally post my thoughts on the season. Please note that these are my own opinions, and are in no way factual.

…

First, I’ll begin by evaluating each episode:

1. Living on the Edge: Average episode. 5/10.

2. Sandbusted: The Hiccstrid betrothal was cute, but the rushed nature of it and the exclusion of Stoick was a major bummer. 6.5/10.

3. Something Rotten on Berserker Island: Unnecessary. Full of bad jokes. 4/10.

4. Snotlout’s Angels: What were the writers on when they wrote that script? 1/10.

5. A Matter of Perspective: One of my favorite episodes this season. I was thrilled to see new dragon knowledge that may actually point to the dragons eventually vanishing in HTTYD3. 8/10.

6. The Return of Thor Bonecrusher: Good episode for Snotlegs, but the original Thor Bonecrusher episode was better. 6/10.

7. Dawn of Destruction: Another one of my faves! 8/10.

8. The Wings of War, Part 1: Finally, Stoick! (It only took 7 episodes). 6/10.

9. The Wings of War, Part 2: The battle scene was actually good for being in RTTE. It wasn’t the typical 2 minute and then done fight. 7/10.

10. No Dragon Left Behind: I have a soft spot for Garf, so naturally I was able to tolerate this episode, although the plot with Astrid risking her life was barely touched upon. 5/10.

11. Snuffnut: What in the name of Thor? 2.5/10.

You might notice that episodes 12 and 13 are absent; this is because I didn’t watch them in their entirety. IMO, the last of the relatively worthwhile episodes ended after E10.

Which episodes would I absolutely re-watch? Only four: A Matter of Perspective, Dawn of Destruction, and Wings of War, Parts 1 and 2, which is significantly low compared to my re-watch tendencies from previous seasons.

…

And now for the stuff I enjoyed:

1. Hiccstrid, because let’s be honest, it’s one of the only reasons I plodded through this season as far as I did.

2. The discovery of Vanaheim. It’s kind of an awesome place.

3. The battle in Wings of War. I loved seeing Astrid’s involvement with it!

…

Lastly, here’s the stuff I found annoying:

1. Lack of Stoick (He didn’t even comment on Hiccstrid’s betrothal, come on now.)

2. Dagur, Heather, and Oswald. Can’t we drop this plot already? I might have watched the entire twelfth episode if it hadn’t centered on the whole long-lost father thing, and possibly even the entire thirteenth episode.

3. Traitor Johann. Again, were these writers on crack or something?

4. Lack of Hiccstrid development. I would’ve loved to see the actual proposal and the events leading up to it. I also would’ve liked to see them discuss kids, marriage plans, etc. Skipping to six months after was simply lazy, IMO.

5. Where’s Valka? We know she’s coming, and we also know Hiccup didn’t see her prior to HTTYD2, but can the riders at least discover a Stormcutter? Or Viggo or Krogan talk about seeing her?

6. Heather. She doesn’t contribute to the plot. I don’t understand why she still periodically appears? Not to mention, her friendship with Astrid is mediocre at best. 20-year-old girl friends don’t engage in high school boy talk and constantly hug unnecessarily.

7. Bad feminism. Snotlout’s Angels tried, and missed the mark by a longshot. I’d also rather not have RTTE try to enter the political conversation on this one.

…

In conclusion, this season wasn’t up to par. Will I continue on to S6? I haven’t decided yet.

#rtte #my thoughts #long post #rtte season 5

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inhonoredglory · 5 years

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Thank u for answering my ask so amazingly (about the friendship themes in httyd3) and I read the blog post you recommended & while it did make me feel a little better, I think I agree w you that what the movie wanted to convey and how it chose to do so fell a bit short for me. I think on the point of selfless responsibility, if we had seen toothless running away from some instead of towards the LF it might’ve come across better. Plus since the threat of the warlords was (in my opinion) (1/2)

2/2 was downplayed to make room for toothless and the LF, also it might be that the first two movies had unwanted loss instead of loss w some consolation it might’ve made me feel better, especially cause I didn’t see toothless nearly as concerned for hiccup at the end. Even w the point that toothless is the alpha, while we got to see hiccup acting as chief it feels like we never saw toothless acting for the good of all dragon kind until the LF. I’m sad that I didn’t like it as much as I’d hoped

Thanks for getting back to me! This was in response to THIS POST regarding the love vs. friendship themes in HTTYD3.

I like the points you bring up here, namely:

Showing Toothless as Alpha

What if we saw Toothless running away from responsibility, instead of towards the LF (as a symbol of his dilemma)? What if we saw him acting as Alpha for the good of all dragons?

Toothless as Alpha isn’t barely shown in this film. We get three-ish major instances of him and his position:

Hiccup telling him to get Moose Boi under control

Toothless staring down the Hobgobbler

Dragons bowing to him in the Hidden World

Toothless’ command forcing the dragons into Grimmel’s cages

These instances convey a lot of Toothless’ power over dragons. But none of these instances really conveys the weight of responsibility Toothless has to them; none of them really shows the work that goes into being Alpha. With the first two instances, it’s mostly Toothless (humorously) trying to get dragons to work well with people.

In #3, we do get a sense of the dragons’ respect of him, but not of his responsibility to them. How is he beneficial to these dragons? How does he protect them? The only sort-of answer to that question is in #4, in which we see that being Alpha (and having an Alpha) has distinct disadvantages in that dragons are forced to follow him. We get this consistently throughout the franchise: the Alpha controls the dragons. And in a sense, that control has never come to good: The Red Death made them get food for him, Drago’s Alpha made them kill and flee the people they loved, Toothless was made to entrap his flock. The only good we’ve seen Alphas do is Valka’s Bewilderbeast, who provided food, warmth, and shelter for the flock. We see Toothless do none of these things. It’s all good and well to say Toothless is the Alpha, but what exactly does he do that makes him valuable to dragonkind, and in turn, them valuable to him?

It’s interesting to note that the Dragonpedia lists this about the King of all Dragons:

However, Bewilderbeasts are not born to that alpha status; it is earned through combat, vigilance, and most importantly, a desire to protect the dragons and all other creatures in its nest.

We saw this clearly in HTTYD2––Toothless fought a malevolent King and released the control of the flock. In HTTYD3, his protection of the flock is implied at best, and at worse, subverted by his personal interest in the LF.

It would have been awesome to see Toothless’ command of the dragons as the major draw to his “call of the wild” (rather than just the LF’s intrigue). What if we saw him becoming more and more entangled with the disputes and needs of the dragons, growing further and further drawn from his time with Hiccup, for example, to mediate disputes and find appropriate spaces in the midst of the overcrowded Berkian landscape? Or giving Toothless more will and stake in the trapper raids, rather than those raids being mostly a human endeavor?

Or, like you said, what if we saw Toothless shirk from the weight of responsibility? What if he’s accosted by dragons, ala Hiccup in GotNF after the dragons disappear? Maybe that makes him uncomfortable and we see him fleeing that, being snarky at Hiccup for having to do the dirty work of Alpha-ship. And in the course of the film, we see Toothless grow to realize he needs to take up the mantleship more seriously, something like Hiccup’s arc in HTTYD2?

Honestly, I would have loved to see him command the dragons in a battle against Grimmel, the power of his Alpha nature put to positive, if destructive, use by saving and coordinating his dragons against a foe that is out to exterminate them. Now that is what I would have loved to see, because it would show what Toothless is willing to do for his dragonkind (go to war), how he helps them (providing a command structure, motivating and coordinating the dragons, protecting them against enemies), and why it’s problematic for Hiccup and the Berkians (the peace that would be broken by dragons fighting humans, continuously, in the future).

Unwanted Loss vs Loss w/ Consolation

“it might be that the first two movies had unwanted loss instead of loss w some consolation it might’ve made me feel better, especially cause I didn’t see toothless nearly as concerned for hiccup at the end.”

I’m not sure I quite follow what you’re saying about the earlier films and the idea of “unwanted loss vs loss with consolation,” but it’s an intriguing concept. Maybe you can elaborate on that?

Because in HTTYD1, we have

Losses - Hiccup and Toothless’ shared disabilities

Consolations - changing of Hiccup’s world, respect of his peers, Hiccup’s renewed relationship with his father and Astrid, and above all, his friendship with Toothless

In HTTYD2,

Losses - the death of Stoick, the loss of the noble Bewilderbeast, the loss of innocence and (some of his) idealism regarding the transformation of enemies to Hiccup’s point-of-view, the loss of innocence on Toothless’ part because of his actions against Stoick, the loss of innocence on the part of Berk (it’s not just them now, but a the greater, dragon-hating world). Ultimately, the loss of the unbridled optimism from HTTYD1: sometimes you can’t change someone’s mind

Consolations - Hiccup’s found mother, the changing of Eret’s mind and his friendship, Toothless’ loyalty and love and the lengths to which he’d go to protect Hiccup, the love and loyalty of dragonkind to humans and their shared goal against tyrants

In HTTYD3,

Losses - all of Berk’s dragons, Toothless’ constant companionship with Hiccup, Hiccup’s goal to change the world for the better, Hiccup’s optimism and beliefs that people can be changed (THIS HURTS WOW)

Consolations - the safety of Berk from raiders targeting them, the safety of dragons from being captured, Hiccup and Astrid marrying, Toothless gaining a mate and place in the dragon world, the bittersweet personal growth in allowing Toothless to fulfill his own destiny (as a leader of dragons), thus allowing Hiccup himself to fulfill his (as protector of dragons and people), the entire ending sequence: once the trappers have spent years realizing the dragons are gone, the Berkians can again re-connect with their old friends

Just listing these out makes me realize once again that the “consolation” offers from the third film were not emphasized or emotionally resonant as much as the consolations from the previous films. The peace gained from the last film’s actions needs to be shown, probably by increasing the threat that was imminent had no action been taken. The main consolation we get in the last film really is the romantic connections forged: Hiccup and Astrid, Toothless and the Light Fury.

Each of these ships basically come to represent the leadership and positions that Hiccup and Toothless gain in their respective worlds: Kings and Queens and rulers. On the surface, it’s a cool bit of symbolism, but in the course of the film, it begins to read more like growing up and finding positions of leadership somehow necessitates a romantic liaison. I’m guessing HTTYD3 is going Old School royalty (I think they mentioned Toothless and the Light Fury being a William and Kate-style couple?) but that’s not an excuse IMO for the narrative thrust of romantic love somehow being fundamental to the maturing or even leadership experience.

#long post #httyd3 spoilers #httyd3 #how to train your dragon 3 #httyd thw #httyd3 analysis #analysis #httyd analysis #*mythoughts #anonymous #httyd3 crit #httyd3 criticism #*myanalysis #my analysis #*mymeta

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