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maxwell-grant · 3 years

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One last one for the moment; top five superheroes who definitely AREN'T Pulp Heroes, but could be with a little tweaking?

Oof, that's a hard one. It's a hard one because, again, there ultimately isn't that much separation between the two to the point there's enough of a hard line in there to work with, but I guess the cat's out of the bag now that I've staked claims on there being differences between them.

Okay so, not counting superheroes who are deliberately modeled after actual pulp heroes, so no Tom Strong or Night Raven here. I'm sticking mainly with comic book superheroes (barring one oddball exception) since the medium separation is important), who I think could become pulp heroes with some tweaking.

5: Captain America

Sort of cheating because I already covered it here, but I definitely have to include Captain America in here, especially in the stories they actively go for a "pulp" vibe as well as the earliest ones.

Fun fact about Marvel: As Timely, they actually began life as pulp publishers. Not just pulp publishers, but specializing in some of the sleaziest, ghastliest magazines of the era, and you can bet this carried over to their superheroes. Where as DC's superheroes took inspiration from the big pulp heroes such as The Shadow and Doc Savage, Timely's superheroes seemed instead much more inspired by Weird Tales stories and Poverty Row horror films, and even in the 60s, Marvel never really abandoned their horror roots, the trick was just using them as a baseline to create superheroes. In DC, the world's first contact with superheroes begins with the world looking in wonder at a friendly strongman. In Marvel, it began with the world looking in panicked horror at a flaming monster rampaging through the streets desperately trying to not burn everything it touches. It should come to little surprise then that the majority of characters I'm including in this list are Marvel characters.

People think Captain America's first comics largely consisted of him fighting Nazis left and right, but they were actually much more often based around him encountering monsters and creatures of horror, like the above panel where it looks like Cap's staring down the beginning of Berserk's Eclipse (RIP Miura).

The early Captain America comics pretty much consisted of Kirby dipping his toe into the monster comics he'd make in the 50s which would later bleed into the 60s Marvel entourage. They even tried repackaging Captain America into a horror anthology in the 50s titled "Captain America's Weird Tales", just imagine how different the character would be today if that somehow stuck.

Imagine a world where Steve Rogers never became leader of The Avengers, never got to become the shining beacon of heroism of an entire universe, and instead, when he was unfrosted, he woke up to find a world running rampant with crawling nightmares and Nazi tyranny, and he has no idea what's become of his former sidekick. That definitely sounds like the start of a promising pulp adventure.

4: Namor

Another Timely creation. In Namor's case, he didn't so much encounter horrors from beyond imagination, as much as HE was the terrifying thing beyond us ready to rampage upon mankind, whose first on-screen act consists of the calculated slaughter of a ship full of innocents. The first true villain protagonist of comic books. Not just an anti-hero, a villain intent on wiping out the human race.

And not just a cardboard supervillain, but the beautiful prince of a race of ugly fish monsters, a momma's boy who's doing what he thinks is right by warring with surface dwellers. While Namor's become largely defined by his gargantuan arrogance, here, he's almost childlike, despite being much more brutal and villainous here, spurred on by the whims of his mother, who even acknowledges that Namor had no real reason to kill the divers but did so anyway, and now encourages him to genocide. His mom even tells him "Go now, to the land of white people!", and the very last panel of the story even states he's on a "crusade against white men".

The massacre of explorers at the hands of something beyond their understanding. A monster born of an interracial coupling. A race of fish monsters with bulging eyes, antagonistic towards humanity but are shown to have positive traits just the same. A dash of racism. There is no mistaking The Sub-Mariner's pulp horror influence.

A non-white superhuman warrior born from a Lovecraftian horror story, who gradually moves away from his villainous crusade into becoming more of an anti-hero, never truly putting aside his hatred for humanity, remaining a temperamental, unpredictable outcast, with a strong, palpable undercurrent of anger in his stories. I could very easily buy Namor as having crawled out of a Weird Tales story and I can't think of other superheroes whose origins are as steeped deeply in pulp horror.

3: Doctor Fate

Technically we already have a pulp hero version of Doctor Fate in Doc Fate, and I'll get to him separately, but even besides him, the earliest Doctor Fate stories in particular feel very much like he's a character steeped in the worlds of pulp and pulp horror who decided to put on a superhero costume and show up in comic.

He's got a similar set-up to The Shadow, from the pulp Shadow in the sense that he's a mysterious, eerie crimefighter who dwells as a presence more often than an active character and who kills criminals without remorse, always watching and waiting for the right time to strike as a a wrathful old-testament force of vengeance, and from the radio Shadow due to him using superpowers to fight crime while being accompanied by a smart, fierce love interest.

Originally, Fate was not a sorcerer, but instead a scientist who discovered a way to manipulate atomic structure, of his and other things, thus making it appear that he can do magic (although we never see his face, and he's implied to be thousands of years old, before they settled on the Nabu origin). And going back to Lovecraft, a lot of it appears in the earliest Fate stories. Fate was given powers not by a sorcerer, but an alien worshipped as a god. He barely encounters traditional monsters, but instead contends with hidden races, zombie slaves, abandoned alien monoliths, and half man and half fish creatures. Fate may have actually been the very first pastiche of Lovecraft in pop culture.

And of course we can't forget the gloriousness of Doc Fate pulling an Indiana Jones on us.

2: Wolverine

I don't even think you'd have to tweak Wolverine at all. You'd just have to get him out of the costume and Avengers/X-Men associations (although the X-Men have a substantial background in pulp sci-fi stories like Slan and Odd John, so they aren't really at odds here), maybe tone down his powers a bit and, that's it. Logan's already the kind of character who has such a varied sandbox history, whose powers can lead to so many different scenarios, that it's not a stretch at all to picture Wolverine in the usual pulp hero scenarios.

You can have half-naked Wolverine running around in the jungle with animals Tarzan-style, take him to Savage Land if you wanna throw dinosaurs in there. He's already Marvel's foremost "wandering samurai/cowboy" character which was one of the stock and trade types of the pulps. Western? Done. Samurai? Done. Wuxia? Just put him in China and add a couple extra fantasy elements. Wanna make a sword and sorcery story with him? He already comes with a bunch of knives and savagery and ability to survive grisly injuries. Horror? The MCU is crawling with them, or alternatively, tell a story from the perspective of someone who's being hunted down by Wolverine. Wanna tell a detective/noir/post-apocalypse story? Logan's right there.

Wanna have him crossover with pulp heroes? He's lived through the 1800s and 1900s and traveled all over the world, you could feasibly have him meet up with just about any of them. Logan may actually be the purest example of your question, because he's very much not a Pulp Hero, and yet, he definitely feels like a character who could have been one, at just about any point in the history of pulp magazines. He's perfect for it.

1: Wario

WAAA-okay, look, bear with me for a second here, I'm not just picking Wario because I love oddball choices and he's one of my favorite characters, I got some logic to this.

Okay so, the first question here: is Mario a superhero? While I'm usually adverse to calling characters prominent outside of comic books superheroes (hence why I'm definitely not interested in debating whether Harry Potter or Goku or Link or Frodo are superheroes), I do think it's a pretty shut case that, yes, Mario is a superhero. Superheroes don't just come in the form of skintight crimefighters, right from the start comic books have had varied types of superheroes appearing in comics and comic strips. For example, the "funny animal" superheroes are a type older than superhero comics, and they were arguably not only the most successful type of superhero of the 40s-50s era, but arguably defined trends dominating nonfunny animal superheroes, traits that predated or influenced Captain Marvel as well as Otto Binder's reshaping of Superman that defined much of superhero convention as we know it. It's part of why the question of "Is Sonic a superhero" has a very clear Yes as an answer.

So upon establishing that, yes, funny cartoon characters can be and are superheroes too, is Mario one? Well, I'd say yes. He's got an iconic uniform, he's got superpowers, he goes on fantastical adventures, he is both a nebulously general do-gooder as well as having a clear mission as protector of the Mushroom Kingdom. His adventures span multiple storytelling formats, he's got catchphrases, he even dresses up in Superman's colors and has a Super prefix iconically associated with him. Not a superhero the way we usually think of, but a superhero nonetheless.

And Wario? Well, putting aside Wario-Man who's more of a running gag than anything, Wario does just about everything Mario does. He's got all the traits that define Mario as a superhero short of a Super prefix and the selfless mission (which isn't exactly a rule). He goes around and gets into crazy adventures, he picks up items, beats bad guys, conquers the odds, and gets some kind of prize for it. He's got Mario's physical traits, and Mario's costume, and just about the same name short of a single letter. The caveat being, of course, that he's Wario, and so everything Mario is or does has to be exaggerated to gross extreme.

Mario is paunchy and strong, Wario's round and built like a powerlifter. Mario's got a friendly face and a fluffy mustache, Wario's got a massive horrible grin and jagged razors for a stache. Mario is a bit of an overeater, Wario can and will eat anything in front of him. Mario gets around with acrobatics and magic power-ups, Wario brute forces his way through everything and just rolls with whatever injuries he picks up along the way.

Mario gets fire powers by consuming magic flowers. Wario sets himself on fire and barrels around destroying everything in his path. Mario harnesses the elements or abilities of beings around him to clear obstacles and solve puzzles, Wario gets turned into a zombie, a vampire or a drunk to get the same things done. Mario befriends and rides dinosaurs who raised him from infancy, Wario piledrives dinosaurs and then uses their bodies to beat up more dinosaurs. Mario pals around with fellow heroes, princesses and friendly fantasy creatures, Wario pals around with aliens, witches, mad scientists, cab drivers, and lanky weirdos. Mario always ends his adventures joyfully leaping to the next one, Wario usually ends up either cackling in a pile of treasure or completely broke.

Mario races through plains to rescue princesses, Wario invades pyramids to hunt for treasure. Mario jumps through planets with baby stars guiding his path, Wario crashes into the Amazon jungle and fistfights the devil. You can see where I'm going with this.

If you were to take one of Nintendo's heroes to make them into pulp heroes, Wario, specifically the Wario Land Wario, may be the only one who really could do it, because in essence, he's the videogame equivalent of Professor Challenger. He's Bluto moonlighting as Indiana Jones, the weird brute adventurer for weird brute adventures where everything's off limits and you can trust our intrepid hero, who really shouldn't be a hero on all accounts, to deliver us a good time, give or take a couple deaths, scams, shams and oh-damns to complete said mad treasure hunts.

#replies tag #not pulp heroes #comic books #dr fate #wolverine #captain america #namor #wario

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popculturebuffet · 4 years

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X-Men Evolution Reviewcaps: Rogue Recruit

My series long look at X-Men Evolution rolls on as eveyrone’s favorite goth reworking of everyone’s faviorite southerner debuts. The X-Men and Mystique race to bring Rogue to her side after her powers accidently coma a boy. The X-Men try the usual compasion.. while Mystique just tries attempted murder and gaslighting while wearing a wolverine costume. Mother of the year! Meanwhile Kurt tries to get Kitty to likes him, Kitty does something profoundly stupid to prove Wolverine wrong that ends up proving him right, and Wolverine grumbles and is kind of an asshole. Well at least one of those is just an average tuesday for him. We’re going Rogue, Rogue, Rouuuuggeeee under the cut.

Onto episode 3 though this time I did actually get around to watching a few in a row, so while i’m not MILES ahead of this episode, I do have a better sense of where things are going and where this falls in line with everything else. And this is a big one as it’s the debut of Rogue, easily one of the shows more popular characters from what I can tell and it’s no real suprise. In most incarnations Rogue is a huge fan faviorite, with a tragic but very useful and intresting power that makes for good stories.. and okay in the comics and carton she’s also fanservice incarnate, but that’s not exactly a factor here so moving on. And here is no exception as naturally, with her goth apperance, and general moody outsider atittude, she was a huge hit with goths and emos one and all! And eveyrone really, it’s a good take despite being almost the oppsite of the angsty but still fesity and funloving 90′s version.. and the ironic part is BOTH are entirely accurate to the comics. And yes like the last time about to dive a bit into the comics.. but unlike the shiar thing this is throughly relevant to how the character is portrayed here and a neat history less for those not in the know, so buckle up.

What’s intresting is both adapt the character.. just at vastly diffrent points. See most probably think of Rogue as she is now: Bubbly, Scrappy and able to throw a man into a mountain, if still understandably mopey about not being able to touch anyone, thoguh that issues come and gone a dozen times by now because comic books can’t resisit undoing things to meet fan expectations despite most dedicated fans wanting some fucking change once in a while.

But that’s due to years and years of character development: When Chris Claremont first intorduced her, in an avengers annual no less.. she was a villain, a member of her adopted mother Mystique’s brotherhood of evil mutants, and unlike here, we’ll get into that, she was a fully willing member at first, gleefuly following her mama’s orders to drain the powers of one of Mystique’s most hated enemy: Carol Danvers, aka Ms Marvel and the future Captain Marvel. Yeah this one takes some explination for you non-comic fans, and even some of you comic fans who might not get how one of the more iconic x-men villians has personal beef with Carol.... granted i’m pretty sure half the marvel unvierse has personal beef with Carol in present day after Civil War II, especially tony for murdering him, but story for another time. It’s actually pretty simple: Chris Claremont was writer of x-men for a decade and easily the most important x-men writer period who created a ton of iconic and well loved characters and shaped Cyclops, Charles Xavier and Magneto into the characters fans know and love among others. And around the same time as his x-men run’s early years in the late 70′s, he was writer of Ms Marvel, and took Carol from a half hearted girl counterpart to the first Captain Marvel with a wonky two identties gimmick, into the asskicker and feminist icon we know today. As such Mystique debuted there and when that book ended, Claremont slided her over to the x-men and the rest is history. And this wasn’t an isolated incident: Sabertooth, aka wolverine’s arch enemy and one of hte more famous mutant baddies, debuted in, of all comic books, iron fist, with Claremont bringing him back years and years later as part of the mutant massacreing Marauders, while Misty Knight and Coleen Wing were breifly supporting characters in x-men inbetween Iron Fist’s cancelation and Iron Fist becoming bros for life with Luke Cage and forming the heroes for hire, bringing the two along as supporting characters in the process. It’s a process writers have contiuned to this day; Bringing a character from other unrelated comics in to keep them out of comic book limbo and one i’m in favor of: as long as their writing the character well and they fit why not. And like her momma Rogue DIDN’T debut in the pages of X-Men, but in Avengers Annual #10. And no Chris wasn’t writing avengers, though it wasn’t really unusual for another writer to hop in for one annual to pinch hit for the regular writer for whatever reason, with Chris Claremont being one of the few who wrote every annual himself for his run on X-Men. What was is he did so for one reason and one only: To get justice for Carol Danvers after a recent story had screwed her over BAD. Two things before we start: If you haven’t heard of this debacle, my apologizes and rape and abuse trigger warning. If you want to skip this portion of the review just ctrl f HIGHER FASTER FURTHER MORE and you can move right on past this clusterfuck and the aftermath. Anyways in Avengers 200, Carol gave birth via terribly contrived mystical pregnancy to Marcus, son of avengers foe and sometimes ally immortus and creepy asshole. Marcus is revaled to have brainwashed carol into loving him , and making love to him so yeah he raped her physically and mentally and the story ends iwth the “Happy ending” of him whisking carol away with him to his limbo dimension while everyone else is fine with it despite him admitting to using the “subtle manipulations of his machines” to make her love him. So yeah, he kidnapped carol to his limbo dimension, mind controlled her, had his way with her, had her give birth to him so he could come to earth then took her back with him.. and not ONE avenger raced a hand, shield, repulsor or hammer, and yes the big three avengers were very much present for this debacle and very much cuplable. IT’s a throughly disgusting hideous story i’ve only see played out thanks to Linkara, long time comics reviewer and all around sweet guy, reviewing it, though with the panels show to show yes all of this is there, and have no intrest in EVER reaading this vile piece of garbage. If your still curious or after just hearing about it want to see it torn to shreds, here’s the review for you.

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It’s terrible for a variety of other reasons. Naturally Chris, who’d put a LOT of time into building up carol and like any creator who sees their character throughly dragged through the mud, was PISSSSSED.. and so were fans who rightly rioted at the issue, so editorial was more than happy to let one of thier biggest draws right the ship and also allowed him to take Carol back home to the x-men with him. As for how that happened, after Rogue stole her powers, Carol fell in a river and was rescued by her best friend and fellow Chris Claremont alumnis Spider-Woman, Jessica Drew, who brought her to the x-men since she was a friend of theirs, where charles fixed her mind, though Carol was left with no emotoins attached to most of her memoreis. When the avengers, after scrapping with the brotherhood in some neat bouts, came to visit their friend.. Carol instead laid into them for letting Marcus take her, poitned out just how fucked up it was as well as how, and this actually happend, the avengers downplayed her concerns and tried to get her to connect with her demon spawn instead of worrying about her while others made jokes. Basically just one long page of chris claremont unloading on the issue and Carol unloading on her former friends before staying with her new ones. And to the issues credit the rest of the team. .takes it, is utterly devistated to realize what they’d done, and reflects on if they can ever make up for it or if they even deserve forgivness. She would eventually, mostly because people wanted to forget this story after that for good reason, but it’s still a damn cathartic moment. HIGHER FASTER FURTHER MORE.. so yeah Carol was now with the x-men, who did end up meeting Rogue during a mission to wipe themselves from goverment records for good reason. And to his credit Chris not only used Carol’s lack of emotions tied to her memories for good drama but gave carol a huge power upgrade as binary, if your curious as to where her glowy headed distctrugion of an entire starfleet in her solo film came from. So okay after about a paragraph not really involving her we get into why this is so important to rogue’s character; Rogue now had Carol’s personality and memories trapped in her head and her mind was blurring between them, something this episode would use, and was falling apart as a result and with her moms Mystique and Destiny unable to help a despearate scared and repetnant Rogue went to her last hope for help saving her sanity and her soul: The X-Men. The X-Men, having both fought her and bonded heavily with her victim, naturally were less than pleased about this, and Colossus outright attacked Rogue before charles stopped him, not unresonably given the circumstances. However after talking with her and realizing both how badly she needed her help and how genuinely she wanted to change, going from a brat in love with her own power to a scared young woman terrified of what she’d done and what she was becoming, decided to roll her into the x-men. And everyone revolted: Carol was understadanbly piss and famously punched Rogue into orbit, while the rest of the x-men threatned to walk. Charles however refused to back down and gave one of his finest speech and one of the characters best moments:

To me this is Charles Xavier, a man who will accept and try to help anyone, regardless of their past, because it’s the right thing.. because they deserve a chance and he will GIVE IT TO THEM. It’s a powerful and well done moment and the x-men relucntantly take her in as a result, eventually seeing her as family as she proved herself. So yeah THAT is why I took so long to get here and went through ALL of this: Because this series adapts this period in it’s own unique way, taking out Rogue’s outright villiany mind, but leaving in her being a moodier, more closed off person who is constantly afraid of once again stealing someone’s very soul. She still has her confidence, as idd the comics version, it’s just tempered by a wall she puts up between her and everyone else that wasn’t as present by the time the 90′s series adapted her. And there are other bits i’ll get to as we go and in future episodes, I just felt this story was important as it colors Rogue’s journey here, hence me taking a good portion of the review to dive into it and even then I have more bits to give as we go. So with all this exposition that’s probably lost ya’s out of the way, this is Rogue Recurit. Pitter Patter. We open in the mighty Missisipi, neighbor to my home state of missouri and home of the deep fried shoe. No wait that’s connecticut my mistake. We meet our unfriendly neighborhood goth moping outside, not really enjoying the dance and probably only having gone because her mom told her not to.. Destiny not Myistque mind. More on that in a minute. She’s being watched by two guys: Cody, who if you know your x-men lore you know this never ends well for him, and his friend uh.. let me check my noootes (Checks wiki while shuffling papers to simulate notes) Ty. Turns out Cody’s been starring at Rogue all week but dosen’t even know her name which to be fair, minus the muscles and being on the football team, is pretty much me in high school and is just as pathetic in 2000 as it would be from 2007-2010. I mean if I just went for it I PROBABLY would’ve been shot down, and the one time I did I indeed was, but at least I would of went for it and maybe learned more about women and not been such a dipstick for the next decade.... “sigh”

Point is Cody awkwardly asks Rogue to dance but like most cool kids, including the kind I hung out with in high school and tended to crush on, she’s there to look COOOOL and mope a bit.. and again tell her mom she can’t tell her what to dooooo. But Cody’s awkwardness and sincerty gets her to say why not, he means well.. a little pity dance can’t hurt. So they dance and then Ty causes this entire episode, yes really, by shoving Cody into her because they happen to be dancing seperatley because Cody’s a goddman gentleman ya maroon, and is respecting her personal space, and IS actually hitting it off as she seems to be enjoying herself. Had he not done that, he at least MIGHT have gottne a kiss before what happens next.. during the fall he accidently touches her skin, which had been mostly covered up and goes into a Coma while Rogue is now stuck in a stupor wondering who she is. Yeah as I omniously hinted at Cody is the guy in every version of Rogue’s origin story, including I assume the 2000′s one where until doing some research i.e. going to wikipedia then letterboxd to find out if his name was given, who she has her first kiss with.. and thus the poor sap who first gets hit with her absorbtion power and traumtizes her. And here it’s no exception. Cue the opening credits. Which despite this setting up the slow arc of Rogue joining htem.. has Rogue in an x-men uniform with the team. Not that the arc is particuarlly subtle about hiding it, we’ll get there but still. After the credits Ty is wondering what she did to him.. even though she barely moved when he fell on her, and Ty shoved Cody into him, and for all we know Cody just went into shock. He also easily could’ve fell on an epi pen or something.. I mean she could’ve stabbed him wiht one but that’s more of a candian thing than a southern thing.

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So Ty, who while understandably given Mutants aren’t public and Rogue herself had no idea still casued this by shoving Cody into her without thinking about if either had any medical conditions or if Rogue you know WANTED to phsyically touch him that soon, and yes diffrent standards and all but even 2000 this was stupid, decides to mess up things further when Rogue tries to run and tries to block the way. Now granted I get it on some level: For all he knows Rogue drugged his best friend and she needs to be there anyway to answer the police.. but counter arguments 1) She may have a record (She dosen’t) and while not having DONE anything may get brought up on charges anyway. 2) If she DID drug cody with a needle of something WHO SAYS SHE DOSEN’T HAVE MORE AND CAN’T JUST STAB YOUR DUMB ASS 3) she’s got a VERY distinctinve haircut with a white streak, wears a very specific outfit she probably son’t have time to change out of , and everyone there saw her. YOu can tell the police what she looks like. They will find her. No instead she tries blocking her and she football tackles him.. because Cody is a footballer because this show, much like Tommy Wiseau, weirdly loves football. though unlike the room most instances it comes up, the first episode, cody being one here, and a future episode where the objective is to get the ball from your opposing x-man, all make some sense versus “Let’s go put on tuxes and play football because that’s what friends do huhhhhh?”. But yeah THIS is why I brought up Rogue’s past: becuase this episode heavily uses the part where she had Carol’s memories.. and would occasionally get messed up between who she was, with one issue having her lapse into being carol to rescue her ex from capture, which he dosen’t take well for obvious reasons. This episode uses something similar with Rogue’s brain a bit fried from taking in cody and thus not being sure where she ends and he begins, which is a very intresting idea and was a cool wya to go about having her powers activate. I mean sure it’s the second time in two episodes a mutant’s powers have traumatically awkaned. but both were distinct and interesting and it’s a staple of x-men stories to have this sort of thing happen.

Meanwhile Rogue’s caretaker Destiny, who we flashed to a bit during the awakening of her powers, calls Mystque. I mentioned her ealrlier in jokes but for those unaware both here and in the comics Destiny is a pre cog, although sh’es an elderly woman in the comics, or rather was having died decades ago in real life, meaning she can see the fuuuuttureeeeee. And thus she saw what was about to happen but couldn’t prevent it. Mysitque is apparently railing her out on the other end over it.. and not in the fun way they usuallly do. And that’’s not crude ininsiuation.. in the comics.. Chris Claremont wrote them as a gay couple and only didn’t explicltly say anything because Jim Shooter was a homophobic moron, even if he had the common sense to stop the kitty and colossus thing because dear god why was that a thing, chaste or not dear god why. The point is Chris fully meant both as lesbians though Mysitque became bisexual under other writers, and the two finally kissed on panel, in flashback last year and Msique wanting her revivied, the x-men can come back from the dead now in comics and Xavier and Magneto refusing for complicated reasons I won’t go into here, and Desitny herself knowing they might not and telling her to burn Krakoa to the ground if she dosen’t get to come back is a major bubbling plot point that got set up earlier this year. So yeah I fully see them as a couple here. ANd yes mistue was with her even as an old lady, it’s really sweet and misty is also immortal so they’ve been together a long time. Also fun fact you probably dind’t need to know: Chris Claremont FULLY inteded to have it turn out the two were Nightcrawler’s biological parents. Mistque is a shapeshifter and can become a man after all.. I like to think that’s what happened here since thankfully the show decided NOT to go with the “kurt’s dad is a demon” explination from around the same time.. and yes that’s a thing and yes it’s fucking stupid and only ever worked under jason aaron who made Kurt’s dad into a pirate who raided heaven and lead to the x-men pirating up alongside a about to come back from the dead nightcrawler to kick his ass. And yes much like the misqute shapeshifting a dick to make a child being shopped around, this actually happened. Comics are awesome sometimes and I genuinely wish Destiny was kurt’s mom. Also yeah spoilers Mystique is nightcrawler’s mom here as usual, including possibly in the movies but it’s kept vauge in both timelines.

Destiny explains that while she kept Rogue’s powers under wraps, giving her a phony skin condition and having her wear skin covering clothes, she couldn’t keep her away from teenage things forever and figured she’d be fine.. she was wrong but hey her precontion isn’t something she can control and she can still see the fucking future, so it’s not like it’s a bad trade off. Myistque is of course coming to collect her but Destiny warns her that, naturally, the x-men are going to be there soon.

Speaking of the X-Men, Wolverine is breaking into the x-men mansion in a ninja costume while storm tries to thrwart hm. Yes there is actual context to this and he is a trained ninja so this fits.. yes really he apparentlyt rained with ninjas as part of his backstory and later had a samurai sword fight iwth his girlfriends dick of a dad twice and has had many since then since even with his claws the image of wolverine wielding a sword is fucking awesome. He crawls through the vents but Storm freezes them and he’s forced to enter the danger room and then tears some machines apart because chuck stops him because APPARENTLY their expesnive.. even though he can afford to buy his teenage son a sports car and himself a fucking rolls, so no Chuck I don’t see why Logan would assume you can’t afford to buy more death machines.

Scott rightly asks what the hell their supposed to learn from one of their teachers putting on his ninja robes and trying to sneak into his own house while another teacher tries to murder him. And yeah with enoguh episodes I can fully say my assement was accurate, and not only that this scott has a bit of a temper at times, being a bit quicker to fly off the handle while also having a clear sarcastic streak, something his comics counterpart would thankfully soon pick up and that’s come back in full under jonathan hickman:

It’s.. a long story.. a bunch of racist genocidal scientests decided to inject themselves with devolving serum to protect their project from the x-men.. okay maybe not that long a story. BUt I LIKE that this scott is flawed, but not enoguh to make him unlikeable just enough to round him out: He’s charming, empathetic and a tactical genius.. but he can also be hot headed, sarcastic and impulsive. I’ts a nice ballance that dosen’t prevent him from being likeable or useful to the team, but keeps him intresting and gives him room to grow. What I really am liking about the series so far is the team is fairly fleshed out.. except Jean and Storm unforuntantley as Storm really hasn’t gotten enough screne time to shine like her comics counterpart and Jean is just sort of “popular girl type a who’s sweet to everyone, but also still badass”. She’s still better than the 90′s cartoon, as she can actually do stuff more often and is a vital member of the team, and has mor eof a personality, but I hope we get more to her as we go. But otherwise the characters are layerd, flawed but likeable, and enjoyable to watch, and it helps with these earlier more awkard episodes, papering over the weaker aspects with strong character.

Anyways Logan explains why they did all this: both to show the kids how to infiltrate big complexes, which given most x-missions are “investgate a base of some sort wher eno good is coming of anything”, case in point the mission in the picture above, it’s a valid and useful skill, and to test the mansion’s security, suggesting since the vents are crawlable to electrify them and add poision gas. Storm objects to the poision gas part as well.. their only enimies besides mystique are two teenagers who while dicks don’t really deserve to choke to death. Wolverine’ relucntantly agreers.. he’ll get em next security update. Next timeee. Kitty meanwhile wonders if anyone else is freaked out and just gets blank stares.. a great gag and a great bit of character as she just joined and had a fairly normal life before all this. Kurt assures her she’ll get used to it, but his telporting over and offering popcorn fails to impress her and she nopes out of there, though Jean reassures him chicks will dig the fuzzy eventually. This is a nice nod to the comics where , with Kurt being the only non-human passing x-man, Kitty was afraid of him for some time, but slowly came around going from being horrified to him to defending him to evelangenlical lunatic reverend stryker, he was a preacher in the comics but no less vile or murder happy, telling him that kurt was one of the noblest souls she ever met after he angrily lambasted him as not in god’s will because you know, he looks like a demon.. and apparently is half of one but let’s ignore that bollocks shall we? Here i’ts more he’s coming on a bit strong on top of that, but it still works reconfigured like that. Anyways enough teen romance, to me my x-men as Charles needs the full team for a mission and it’s the first time we’ve HAD a full team mission which makes sense: Episode one only had two active x-men and one who just joined and episode 2 only needed a smaller team for both subplots so we split the team minus storm in half. Here we have our first full mission: To find Rogue as Xavier believes she’s a danger to herself and others.. which isn’t exactly wrong when her power can abosrb at a touch and she has two entirely diffrent minds overlaping in her head. I do questoin however going in full combat gear, as they do. Bringing it, no sweat what if someone shows up to attack them, their apparently aware of the brotherhood as of next episode... which makes little sense but whatever. But when they land they go out in full superhero gear which not only ends up playing into myistques hands , more on that in a bit but makes htem look super supscious. And this could just be wanting more costume action early on which would be fine.. if the previous episode hadn’t had jean in plain clothes to talk to kitty, because yeah most people freaked out about their powers probably wouldn’t assume the best of someone in tactical gear iwth a big x on their costume! Gah. I”m glad I went ahead simply to know the x-men do get smarter.. a little.

Anyways, that stupidity aside on the jet Kurt is flying for the first time with Scott proud of his skill saying he’ll be an ace.. and taking it back when Kurt starts driving with his feet.. even though to me that’s just as impressive as while he has that classic arms behind the head relaxed pose, he is still paying attention, has his feet on ten and two and, and it’s a fact that I forget sometimes: His feet are just as, or at least, almost as good at gripping as his hands. It’s why he can wall crawl like spiderman. Their llike gorilla feet but better. So yeah that joke dosen’t really land. Meanwhile it’s time for what an older man thinks two teenage girls talk about.. and I just noticed looking at the credits this episode is written by Simon Furman, one of the more renowed transformers creators and write of the UK comics and later the US comics, as well as the first few mini series and one shots for the first idw continuity.. granted the latter is a bit infamous for what he did to arcee, which I both don’t know enough about and don’t have enough time to get into here, nor have I read enough of his work to gush, but I sitll felt it worth mentioning. ANd it’s not uncommmon for comic book writers to write for animation: Greg Weisman started in comics before moving to animation with Captain Atom’s post-crisis solo series, Dwayne McDuffie had a rather sizeable career in comics as a writer and editor and returned to writing comics in the 2000′s for a stint, and Marv Wolfman helped make the treatment for beast machines, while Peter David’s done scattered episodes of various shows, most memorably for me Ben 10. So not a HUGELY uncommmon thing but still worth noting. Anyways legend or no, he still makes the rest of this scene awkward as Kitty fawns over scott, Jean ends up agreeing and in annoying fit of jealously kurt ports to the roof to do .. some sort of stunt to impress kitty and end sup having to come back in due to wind resitance, teleproting on her by accident and pissing her off. It’s not a terrible scene, as it shows some vunerablity in kurt and furhters the jean scott love triangle but in revisiting it it just feels a tad awkardly put in there, especially since so far kitty having a crush on scott goes nowhere and love triangle wise it’s more Jean, Scott and Rogue.. more on that next time. Wolverine mutters about kids in annoyance.. so for the first and probably last time in my existance I feel the exact same as wolverine for one shining moment.

Mysitque arrives and is angry at her wife for letting their daughter get away, Irene reitrates the dance thing.. you get it. Luckily having a precog for a wife is handy for more than timing your orgasms to happen at the same time, and Irene knows she’s going to Cody’s hosue which she thinks is her own and that’s where we see her next. Now while this episodes quality is mixed... I do like this element of Rogue torn between two identites not sure which is her.. it’s thorughly intresting and hasn’t been used enough in adaptations, though the 90′s series did do a good job with it’s own take of having Carol and Rogue fight for Rogue’s body.

At any rate wolverine attacks.. wow jesus wolvie I know you don’t like kids but this is a bit far.... at least go back home and take it out on duncan if you need to murder a teenager sheesh. Of course it’s actually mysitque whose trying to make her afraid of the x-men, shifting into storm next. It’s not a terrible tactic.. it has specific faults i’m saving for the end, but in the short term using the x-men in costume to scare her, then having Irene show up and tell her their mutant hunters.. it’s not bad. It also nicely back fries when the x-men arrive, charles unable to pointpoint her due to her brain being scramble, and end up going down the alleyway with Wolvie in tow causing her to book it.

Kurt, whose really on the ball outside of the plane stunt this episode, comes up with a better plan than “Chase the frightened teenager around missiipi and hope it works” and realizes since she’s clearlys cared of logan, even if they don’t know why he can try talking to her while in inducer form. Logan relucntantly agrees but tells kurt to keep an the rookie, i.e. kitty which pisses her off. Remember this for a second from now.

So Kurt.. actually succeeds in calming her down, pointing out he like her was once freaked out, that being diffrent is okay etc, usual line but it works.. then ... yeah that second from now is now now as Kitty decides “she dosen’t look so tough” AND TACKLES ROGUE. Who they know has the power to absorb things by touch even if she’s mostly covered, and who was about to turn to their side. Just because Logan, it turns out CORRECTLY, insulted her. Just.. jesus this is bad writing.. Kitty isn’t this obnoxious or usless later on and while she could sometimes fuck up in the comics..it was less noticable since she was the ONLY teenager, and still once fried a demon with a jet engine. Here? She hasn’t done any of that so she just comes off as a dumbass brought on a mission too soon who causes her friend to not long after this get his powers absorbed by rogue.. though weirdly she dosen’t get his blue skin, which annoys me a bit but whatever. Animation budgets. Point is kitty lost their target and got kurt comaed. Kitty paniced realizes she can reach the professor telepathically, and we do get a great gag of her doing so too loud, while Logan grumbles about not going with them.. which is a godo point.. why didn’t he just.. you know take the costume off. even if she panicked if she learned who he was later, they would at least have her on the plane and could easily knock her out gently, especially logan since he recovers fast and would the instant his healing factor came back, and then deal with her panic and her fear of them they didn’t know about back home versus here. He didn't even have to come with her just hang towards the back in plainclothes. Instead his telling Kitty she sucks caused her to prove that assessment accurate. So Charles goes to help while Storm, Cyclops and Jean continue the search They find her and Jean shows her empathy again, and I have to admit the character really isn’t that bad in moments like this.. the only reason I ragged on her coming to kitty last time is she made the rookie mistake of telling Kitty about her telepathy, which, while better sooner than later, was done so clumsily it backfired. Here.. she genuinely and softly talks to Rogue, and offers her a communicator which looks like a neuralizer for some reason.. seriously why not just hide it in a compact or a watch or something Chuck? But that aside i’ts a nice moment.. that storm accidently ruins by showing up and terrifying her away. Yeah that’s PART of my problem with the episode right there is jwhile it changes up setting and what not it’s still just “The x-men find Rogue , get her calm, then she runs when one of the x-men mystique traumatized her with shows up”. It just gets old fast despite some clever switches here and there.

Thankfully we’re at the climax and since Mystique saw all that she shifts into Cyclops.. and up until now I haven’t mentioned this but it becomes a glaring issue here: Mystique’s dialouge when shapeshifted when coming up is basically variations of I’M GOING TO KILL YOU. Which not only is a bit dull, as she apparnelty knows the x-men and at least could make them sound like evil versions of the people we know but also REALLY dumb... again i’m saving this for the end of the episode because it all comes together with her endgame for Rogue, but even if you haven’t watched the show given what’s happened with Toad and Avalanche you can probably guess. But yeah while watching I WAS going to lambast her for not using Jean.. but she’s actually clever here, using Scott who Rogue hasn’t met to unerve her already, then shifting into Jean to take back the chance she offered. IT scares Rogue out who naturlaly books from Jean.

Rogue then touches storm.. and Cyclops promintently craps himself as he realizes “Oh shit an already scared and psonically scrambled teenager just got an omega mutant’s levels power but with none of the experince and 80 times the angst”. So yeah Rogue’s powers spin out of control in what’s a great sequence and she hit sa transformer but ends up running. Xavier decideds to call this one a wash, and can’t find her anymore anyway as Cody has faded and decide she has to come willingly. Kurt reawakens to Kitty’s delight. Yay that mildly annoying subplot is done. We end at the school and this is what i’ve been building towards folks: Myistque enrolls Rogue in the school, comersrates on magneto on a job well done and Rogue looks at her commincator. And now for the reason I was a bit patient on this: Mystique’s plan is really shortsighted and dumb. Now pretending to be the x-men, that works.. but her impersinations are so shallow, ESPECIALLY for an experinced shapeshifter that the minute Rogue gets to know any of the x-men, her entire facade will start to crumble. Or if she touches one of them and gets their memories.. which never happens even when she borrows one of their powers next time but hey. Instead of making the x-men seem like gaslighting manipulators she makes them seem like petty murderous villians.. when 5 minutes with Scott or jean or just watching either will cure that. And sure as we see next time she TRIES keeping her from talking to them for too long.. but as we also see school projects happen and she can’t control EVERYTHING without raising some red flags with her faculity. She’s principal, if a teacher’s supscious she’s abusing a student she brought in, they hopefully won’t hesitate to call someone to look into it and as a shapeshifter running a dodgy mutant milita made up of students you brought in that’s the last thing you fucking want. It’s really not even a remote surpise this only lasts three episodes before she turns, and makes me question why do this arc if it’s going to be so half assed? In the comics Myistque was not only a master planner, even getting her team jobs as goverment enforcers when she realized being anti-human terrorists in a very racist climate was just going to get them all killed, but she also CARED about Rogue and her using empathy and kidness on TOP of the manipulation would make Rogue trusting her so much make more sense than “Well it’s you or the attempted murderers”. It’s just really fucking sloppy and to it’s credit Wolverine and the X-Men ended up doing this sort of plotline 80 times better, with Rogue being a villian for a while AFTER the x-men had broken up, left her with nothing, and things had only gotten worse for mutants.. and I think bein ga double agent, it’s been a while, but her reasons for turning there feel natural in comparison to this. The x-men aren’t much smarter as they only connect the dots that maybe it’s a shapeshifter, a shapeshfiter I belive xavier, storm and wolverine alread know about and coul’dve told the students. Gah.

Final Thoughts: This episode isn’t very good and in reviewing it I really realized it when it took me 4 or so diffrent sessions to finish this thing. While it has good parts, like a lot of ROgue’s stuff, the danger room break in, it’s held back by stupid decisions, a stupid villian plot, and a waste of great POTETIAL stories for a half assed one from a writer who clearly can do better and a show that will soon enough. Glad to finally be done with this one.. I might not come back to evolution for a second, but when I do I promise it won’t take this long.

Next Time on X-Men: Evolution: Blob debuts, crushes on jean to an obssesive and quickly very stalkery degree and also nearly murders duncan with a locker... so he’s clealry a mixed bag. Meanwhile Scott and Rogue get paried up on assigment and Paul wears out his welcome Like this if you enjoyed it, I have other x-men evolution reviews in the x-men tag on my blog, as well as other animation goodness, and if ther’es an episode of another x-men show, including the gifted and legion as i have hulu, or marvel show in general you’d like me to cover just drop me a pm to comission it for a reasonable fee. ANd until next time, courage.

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shellheadtmark2 · 5 years

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@auntlarb if I was to start reading comics for 616 Tony, which comic would you recommend to start with? like I have zero idea how comics work or where to even begin

honestly, and this isn’t really a good answer, but it’s the honest one, it depends on what you want to know. because otherwise the answer is everything. every single scrap you can because...well, to be absolutely real with you, shit from one panel from one comic fifty years ago will be referenced in a comic now and the only footnote you get in explanation is something like “AS SEEN IN INVINCIBLE IRON MAN #5! - EDITOR” when invincible iron man #5 was published in 1963.

i’m also going to really preface this in general for anyone reading this and also be incredibly real and say if anyone that wants to start reading iron man comics and goes in expecting anything at all like mcu tony - you’re gonna be disappointed. mcu tony is as different to 616 tony as ultimates tony is to both of them, which is to say...they’re different characters. or, rather, very different takes on the same character. the mcu is something like what if 616 and ultimates had a baby and that baby grew up to marry thanos. 616 tony is less cinnamon roll too good for this world and is literally charred cinnamon roll, crunchy, been through hell and back, throw him in the trash. i love him a lot tho.

alright, that’s my expect something completely different disclaimer.

the problem with reading guides in general is that they don’t...you don’t get the full picture. with comics you have to jump around, read an issue here and there of a title you wouldn’t normally do so with (as i wait patiently for wednesday so i can read loki #2 and find out why tony’s wearing armor on the cover he logically shouldn’t - assuming that’s even addressed). there’...honestly i’d argue there’s no perfect place to jump in, you just pick a spot and start reading, and if you get to the end of an issue and it says “contined in [some other comic title and number]” you hunt that down and read it, and then bounce back to what you were reading. so you get the full picture. you read a lot of comics - and i mean a lot - digging out every scrap of one storyline.

which is a lot of words to say pick a spot and just dive in. but it’s true. i can, however, offer suggestions for runs that i personally enjoy and think give good groundwork for how 616 tony feels different from mcu tony, and eases you into it being less jarring because of that difference.

iron man: extremis director’s cut (2005) will never not be on my recommended list. it shows you how extremis works in 616 and why tony would do that to himself. it’s also one of those comics that gives you a little bit of a sense of how 616 tony’s brain works. be warned tho, it’s...it’s dark. and gory. i can tell you right now most of the iron man comics on this list are going to be both of those things, because that’s just how iron man rolls. there’s no happy endings for tony, y’all. this is one comic i reference a lot.

invincible iron man (2008) is another favorite. it’s a little bit director of shield, a little bit of a mandarin face off story, a little bit of yanking tony out of the armor, a little bit of getting involved in asgard’s bullshit, a little bit of a detective story. this is the run with the brain thing. also gory. also, at times, dark. it does not shy from the body horror of what tony does to himself. but it’s a solid look at tony’s world, i think, from tony’s point of view. also i can verify you can read this one without having read others because @gwinnetts did it for reasons and furthermore and didn’t have any trouble.

invincible iron man (1998) is another good run, though it’s one that...goes for a long while. the mandarin shows up, you see bits and pieces of tony’s ridiculously bad love life, he’s secdef for a while, there’s all kinds of weird horror shows going on, it’s dark, it’s gritty, it’s the golden age of iron man comics, in my opinion. also a good place to start because it’s post heroes-reborn so everything’s new and shiny and you can follow along right through it.

avengers (2013) requires some prerequisite reading and some intermittent reading of other stuff (AXIS, superior iron man, new avengers, infinity) to get the full picture by the end, but good lord it’s a beautiful avengers run.

because that’s the thing. you can’t just read iron man comics, you gotta start dipping in all over the place to understand what’s going on.

new avengers & young avengers (2005) is okay in the set up to civil war. you’ll get to see characters like luke cage and spider-man, stature and patriot, as well as jessica drew and wolverine, and it starts laying that foundation.

civil war is super! super! important to tony, even if he doesn’t remember it anymore firsthand. and there are so many tie ins to civil war like...you could spend forever just here. on top of the seven issue run, i also highly recommend fallen son, the confession, and what if? civil war for maximum tony stark manpain. because civil war fucking wrecks me. it’s been fifteen goddamn years almost and it still fucking wrecks me.

demon in a bottle, because tony being a recovering alcoholic is such a huge part of his character development, and demon in a bottle is crucial to that. to add on to that, in invincible iron man runs in the early 80s help fill in the blanks from this nicely.

iron man legacy is incomplete, but it’s so so good. so good. it gives you a taste of homeless tony in a modern sense, as well as how inventive his brain is when he’s armorless. well worth the read and it won’t even take that long.

the armor wars (both of them) are another set that definitely deserve a skim through, because it shows just how out of hand shit gets sometimes, and how far tony will go to get his shit back.

iron man: viva las vegas is also incomplete, which is a goddamn shame, but it’s another quick read that gives you and idea of tony doing tony things. it was also a great little plot, killed before its time, and the art was, imo, solid, in the same style as iron man: extremis.

iron man: fatal frontier is hooo boy. it’s sure a thing that happened. think mining boomtown. on the moon. with tony as the sheriff. who’s also suffering from a metal poisoning that’s making him megalomaniacal because “tony knows best”. it’s good. if anyone doesn’t agree, we can meet in the pit, i love fatal frontier. i have lots of feelings about fatal frontier.

fantastic four/iron man: big in japan is great to lighten things up again. kinda gory but in a cutesy...way? it’s hard to explain, this comic is just wild as fuck. also hilarious.

captain america: man out of time is probably a weird choice outwardly to put here, but it’s about the avengers finding cap from cap’s perspective, and how badly tony was mancrushing on him. the start of the unnecessary touching. tony wiggling in excitement to take steve rogers out. tony’s dual identity. it’s all here, and from steve rogers’s perspective.

anyway this thing is...really long, and this is a good start. it gives (i personally think, anyone else is welcome to disagree / make suggestions) a good comparison for just how different 616 tony is. you’ll both hurt for him even more? and feel pretty unsympathetic to some of his bullshit by the end of it. but what you will see is a lot of nuance that’s missed just because the mcu couldn’t develop these kinds of layers in the time it had. tony’s complicated, and that’s putting it...extremely mildly. he’s so so good, but he’s willing to throw himself on the pyre and nail himself on the cross and it fucks him each and every time he does it.

#auntlarb #★ protocol . answered / i stole the keys from the sky #★ protocol . ooc asks / hey big spender spend a little time with me #★ array . misc / do you walk in the shadow of men who sold their lives to a dream #long post #long post for ts #// i also recommend classic invincible iron man if you can wade through it #// you can watch his character start out kind of stuttery and then...start to grow #// gain the personality tony keeps to a large degree #// and see how his early tragedies shape him later #// also kree/skrull war and the start of the illuminati #// which you should read the illuminati run too #// now that i think about it

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