#rj meta

[cto10121]

Seriously, Why Did Shakespeare Make Juliet 13?

One common trope among the annals of R&J clownery is the matter of Juliet’s age, which never fails to send clowns into a frothy spiral of pearl-clutching, hand-wringing agita (Romeo’s age, meanwhile, is never a cause of much paternalistic concern). But it’s worth asking the question, especially since:

His sources for the tale feature a much older Juliet and of course, Romeo. Why the change?

13 was considered too young to be married even by Shakespeare’s time; for the lower classes it was almost unheard of. Only children by nobility were betrothed that young, and chiefly for political alliance.

So there is a bit of a ~mystery. There have been many theories, some more likelier than others. Let’s count the ways.

1. Social Criticism: The Bad Old Days(tm)

This is most likely the case, tying into the fact that early modern Englishmen and women married in their late 20s as the norm. Even Shakespeare was at least 18 when he married his 27-year-old wife.

Nobility did betroth their young children for alliance, but it was understood by the late 1500s that 13-14 year-old girls were too young to bear children safely. A delay of a year or two before marital consummation was the norm. Shakespeare may have wanted to reflect that reality for his multi-class audience.

Also, Shakespeare was adapting a history set in the 1300s, during De La Scala’s rule in Verona. If Shakespeare had wanted to clue his audience in that this tragedy was set during the Bad Old Catholic Days, making Lady Capulet and the Nurse encourage their 13-year-old to consider marriage and explain that girls as young as she were already married would set those 🚩🚩🚩 🚩 a-waving for a 1590s audience. There is definitely an attempt to problematize the Capulets. Sure enough, we do have contemporary accounts mentioning a “tyrant” Capulet.

So Shakespeare’s audience (and we) would immediately understand the critique and also the dramatic stakes for Juliet—what kind of family she has been raised in, and the danger she would soon be in for merely resisting her father’s will.

2. Social Criticism: The Disempowerment of Youth

In de-aging his lovers, Shakespeare may have wanted to emphasize just how much Romeo and Juliet are at the mercy of their families. They have a degree of agency and autonomy, more so on Romeo’s part since he is undoubtedly older. But otherwise they are largely dependent on their families, and thus more vulnerable to the (deadly) consequences of their feud.

That’s why they don’t even consider fleeing Verona—not that it wouldn’t be just as stupid an idea even if they were older. But actual minors out in the world is a recipe for disaster.

3. The Power of (First) Love

Shakespeare may have wanted to make sure R&J had as little romantic experience as possible to drive home this point. While 13 was considered too young for marriage, love was a different matter. Even now the average age of first romantic experience for most people is 13-16. Romeo is hung up on Rosaline, but doesn’t seem to know her well at all or made much of an effort to woo her. And Juliet honestly is not thinking of marriage.

That said, there are some things in the play that go against R&J having no romantic experience prior to this. Romeo is impatient with Rosaline’s chastity vow and overall does not value chastity much. He also does not hesitate to pursue and woo Juliet. Juliet picks up on the flirtation right away without so much as a “whut” and tells Romeo that he kisses “by th’book.” She also warns Romeo that if he has no intention of marrying her, to leave her “to her grief.” Kids grow up so fast, I guess.

All of this may just be a sign of their instant chemistry rather than any prior romantic experience, though. As soon as they meet each other it’s as if they have grown by like 3-5 years older lol. And R&J are just as likely to experience first love at 16/18 as 13/17. But it does show that Shakespeare and his time were well aware erotic attachments began on the younger side.

4. Practical Theater Stuff

As Shakespeare’s troupe was all men, with young boys playing women, it would make sense for Shakespeare to write closer to the actor for Juliet. 13/14/15-year-old boy=13-year-old female character. Audience verisimilitude, and all that.

He may not have been necessarily 13, though, so again, weak sauce. And Elizabethans accepted such a whole host of artificial stage conventions that I doubt they would have really had their Suspension of Disbelief threatened by an older boy as Juliet.

Bonus: Adaptations

Due to vastly changing attitudes and norms, Juliet’s age has been changed for modern adaptations, for various different reasons, many valid. Those that have kept her age intact, though, have not always understood the social criticism and deliberate purpose behind Shakespeare’s decision to age his lovers down. Hence you get a lot of 13-going-on-3 Juliets and casting kid-looking actresses in the role general. If not, then she is portrayed as more immature and energetic than the text ever suggests, from tomboyish to typical girly-girl playing with her dollies (🤮).

Ditto for Romeo. Romeo’s age is not specified in the text, but casting directors have rarely aged him down to Juliet’s canonical age (the closest is probably the Polish and Cocciante musicals with really baby faced Romeos). More often, to compensate, Romeo’s actors have simply played him as more boyish and immature than even his part reads—a caricature of a teen boy as a more “fitting” partner for a more child-like Juliet.

All much ado about nothing, imo. Shakespeare would probably not give a groat if you raise Juliet’s age, so long the cruelty of the forced marriage is conveyed. With the expansion of childhood, the delay of marriage, and the rampant neo Puritanism, 16 is very much the new 13. Even so, with the age gap discourse, the clownery about Romeo being a Creepy Italian Groomer has only grown worse.

#romeo and juliet #rj meta #r&j meta #age gap discourse #what is most interesting tho is how many productions *don’t* age romeo down #romeo does read as an older teen definitely #but frankly so does juliet #after her first scene juliet reads as what we would consider 16

[pocketgalaxies]

We want to destroy my mother. (insp by @dadrielle)

#critical role #criticalroleedit #imogen temult #liliana temult #laura bailey #matthew mercer #gifs #* #*cr #cr3 #cr spoilers #angst tag #cr meta #nova shh #scheduled #3h12m c3e88 #18m c3e12 #3h17m c3e42 #3h42m c3e51 #4h20m c3e51 #1h35m c3e49 #i think this gifset might be a little bit unfair to liliana from a third party perspective but #i think it's Very Real for imogen. to feel like she reached out so many times and the loyalty there was so fucking flimsy #barely there to begin with and then gone in an instant as everything turned to red mist #thinking about how laura on 4sd a while ago said imogen is so fucking sick of it she's sick of having that hope #her reality is that her mother no longer has any loyalty to her and the pain of thinking she does isn't worth it anymore #:(((( #'help me.' 'this is for the best.' breaks my H E A R T :((((((((( #and matt's fucking Smile afterward. speaks a thousand words #thanks rj for the discord message that kicked this off!!!

[atorionsbelt]

if ted lasso was made with the vision of a gay indie film director roy kent and jamie tartt finally opening up to each other and letting down their walls in amsterdam — wherein they both heal the other’s inner child in the process: overwriting the neighboring traumas from one’s father and the incomplete coming of age story from one’s grandfather — would’ve included a brief flash in the montage of jamie teaching roy how to ride a bike. child actors in the very same place instead, a blurred dreamlike echo of a life that never was.

for just a moment roy and jamie meet in their youth, free from the weight of the world, free from the looming threat of pain and loss, suspended in time. at long last, they become friends there, where it’s safe. just them and the dirt and the grass stains and the endless night and the bruises you can’t even remember because you’re laughing too hard with your best friend. roy has been waiting all his life to just be a kid with jamie.

#op #the rj discord saw this first ily #meta #royjamie #ted lasso #jamie tartt #roy kent #jamie x roy #roy x jamie

[toastandjamie]

Thinking about Tuon and Mat as a parallel to Hades and Persephone.

How Mat went to Ebou Dar to help find the bowl of the winds to change the seasons. That the bowl was used in congruence with the arrival of the Seanchen, plunging the world into winter at the same time that Mat was trapped in Ebou Dar. How as we got farther from Ebou Dar the season began to shift again, finally becoming spring once Mat left Altara.

How Mat used roses to court Tuon. Even if they weren’t real flowers, the imagery of giving someone who’s entire culture symbolically represents death and the underworld a flower. That in the two rivers the way you show interest in someone is weaving flowers into their hair.

That marriage ceremonies in the two rivers are vibrant celebrations of life and love with the entire community giving you their blessings, vs. the cold and often loveless marriages of the Seanchen High Blood that doesn’t even require the two partners to even be in the same place to complete the ritual.

When Mat is dressed in Seanchen regalia they use dark green to represent his life before in the two rivers, the color of the forest and trees and the color red to represent his new life as the prince of ravens, the color of blood…. Or pomegranates.

I’m so so feral about them

#wheel of time #mat cauthon #tuon athaem kore paendrag #wheel of time spoilers #wot meta #wot rambles #RJ and his mythological references #tuon and mat’s entire aesthetic as a couple kills me

[halcyon-autumn]

Robert Jordan and Narrative Focus

As I reread the series, I’m so interested in the “scenes” that Robert Jordan doesn’t directly describe. (Spoilers! Big spoilers!) In tFoH, Mat kills Couladin fully offscreen. Similar thing with was Suian’s stilling in TSR - the Sitters tell her that they’re deposing her, but she’s tortured and stilled off screen, and we don’t see her again until she’s in a cell with Leanne, trying to come to terms with what’s been done to her. There’s a bunch more moments - Osan’gar, a forsaken, getting killed (although it was pretty funny that he got wiped out, offscreen, by a minor character who was ostensibly on his side), Nynaeve and Lan’s wedding, the Asha’man forcibly bonding the Sisters who came to destroy the Black Tower, etc - but the Suian and Couladin moments really stand out to me.

My thought is that RJ just wasn’t interested in these “dramatic moments” as much as he’s interested in the lead up and the consequences and how the character’s personality 1.) gets them into those situations and 2.) mean that they react to those situations. RJ doesn’t care about the ~drama~ of Mat v Couladin. He cares about Mat’s inability to leave people to their probably deaths when he could help, and he cares about how Mat reacts to accidentally becoming a war hero. Similar thing with Suian - RJ is interested in how she ignores Min’s warnings and what’s happening in the Tower, and he also cares about her ironclad determination to bring Elaida down. I think it MUST have been a deliberate choice on his part to focus on these things, especially because it’s a very unusual choice for an author to make. At the end of the day, RJ loved a character study, and I think that’s part of the reason his writing style feels so distinct to me.

#it’s a very interesting choice tbh #and I think it’s really what makes RJ’s style so distinctive to me #sometimes it driver me crazier as a reader #but I think it ties into stuff I like about RJ #name his character focus #so *shrug* #wheel of time meta #wheel of time book spoilers #wheel of time book series #Robert Jordan #wheel of time spoilers

[carruni]

quality control re:stylization in sparklecare got way more intense since v2 (some pages are, i am so sorry to say, straight up bad) so v3 and v4 are way sleeker and more consistent. what this means is you can't tell at a glance who's done which page. we're all trying to make it look seamlessly like kittycorns art

BUT. as you guys may know. things like unis eye blood aren't present in sketches. it's something the inkers colorists get to just sorta eyeball. that's the modern era of where you can identify different clowns stylizations

from pages 6 and 7 respectively

there are other small examples of style variations too. again usually things not present in the sketch, like gown spots and sometimes markings and stuff. it could be as minuscule as pen pressure. just some interesting details to look out for!

#sparklecare #sparklecare hospital #what if i made like . like a tag #sparklecare meta #clownposting #something like that #(4:30 am is a bad time to publish a post) #another good example of style differences is i'm actually garbage at tears i had to draw caroline crying and i was fighting for my life #i had someone else redraw all the tears on one page. i just botched it bro #that someone else is rj. thank you rj. shoutout :) #he does so much tidying up and detailing pages it's awesome. #actually had to change the way we credit the pages bc of his kickass contributions

[procrastinationau]

Sometimes when it's slow at work I doodle. here's me trying to nail down RJ's design/how to draw him differently from regular jack, as well as some notes on his...idk, biology? Construction?

basically: Sharp angles, solid shapes (his hair is made up of fiber strands but I draw it as one solid piece), his helipack is part of his body, he probably cut his own face open to add those bolts in. also he has rubber skin. I go back and forth on him having skin bc in canon I THINK he's just metal all the way through? but idk I think he'd have skin. just a thin layer of rubber over the metal to protect it, like an iPhone case.

(originally drawn December 2022)

#RJ #meta #sketch #au spoilers

[hauntedmoors]

I see you were on the receiving end of one of cannoli-reader's massive rants about how much he hates Egwene al'Vere. That guy is incapable of being rational about her and basically thinks she's a Darkfriend - he's notorious in WOT fandom for being obsessed with Egwene to levels that even other Egwene haters think is a bit much. I think he searches for posts about her just so he can rant about how much he hates her. Disregard.

lol, I have them blocked! there was a period where they were combing through my blog and leaving comments on a bunch of my posts, and I didn’t even mind a lot of our differing opinions but the egwene post did it for me because it was very vile. I appreciated their ability to write elaborate analyses but it wasn’t going to be at the expense of basic truths intrinsic to the foundation of the characterisations and storytelling - no analysis is ever going to have any ground to stand on when it refuses to acknowledge very basic canon; if you can’t trust those very fundamental facts (for example, that egwene and moiraine are good people who make lots of questionable decisions because they’re flawed and have a bunch of personal traumas influencing those decisions or that elayne is a very empathetic and kind person and not… a spoiled and pampered princess who takes advantage of the dumb redheaded villager) then I can’t pretend that those posts are in good faith or even in defence of RJ’s supposedly inviolably precious canon because they come at the expense of personal biases and (unconsciously or not) stem from some degree of disrespect to his work. a refusal to engage with their larger place in the story indicates that the analysis was never going go be worth its salt anyway. I often trust more readers who hated the books at this point, tbh.

#like. people tend to do that a Lot in this tiny fandom. they discover meta and/or personal issues w/ the books and come up with painfully #wrong explanations for what they think rj might have been trying to do. min and tuon and galad get so many bad faith interpretations that #despite my indifference to them I’ve also developed a reflex protective instinct. #honestly just prefer the view from outside 👍 I don’t trust any posts except the ones that my mutuals make. #asks #anonymous #anyway. they’re characters!!!! they’re not real!!! rj was often more concerned about their Thematic Significance & you should be too!!!!

[sadhorsegirl]

been left to my own devices for too long and now i can't stop thinking about what i think worked in season 1 and what i want to happen in season 2.....

although i didn't like everything in the first season, i think that almost makes it more interesting. the show and the books are a dish best served together, where one falls short i often find the other one picks up the slack, highlighting and complimenting each other really well.

imo wot on prime is a really strong advocate for adaptations being willing to make big changes to the source material in order to either a) make the fans reconsider the work by making them see it in a new way b) changing things so long as u stay true the "spirit" of the original (hard to pin down and not everyone will agree, but im gay and moiraine ruled so they did it lol)

context established, i think one of the things ive found most disappointing in the books is how moiraine's family reveal is handled. rj kind of tees up the idea, u see mat and some of the others kind of figure she has to be highborn somehow, but he doesn't really resolve any of this just suddenly everyone knows she's a damodred despite it being a massive deal in terms of um. house damodred's role in the entire narrative history of the world up until that point

i literally couldn't stop giggling bc i assumed nynaeve specifically was going to like. capital m MURDER her murder her lmao. bc it felt like by lying by omission abt her own origin it was just one more way moiraine lied (aes sedai voice "mislead" moiraine voice "gaslight") to the two rivers kids in order to lead them into danger without potentially necessary information. maybe it was a less obviously dangerous manipulation, but to me it def reads as a straw that could very much break a braid pulling camels back

and it also feels like such a missed opportunity not to really tie in elayne to the whole thing? moiraine and her are literally related, even if their actual relationship is not super close (almost MORE interesting), and (not to get too off on my Grand Moiraine Parallel Theory) she and moiraine have a lot of Grand Parallels lol. at most obvious and most unaddressed, i think it would be smart to tackle the whole "we both have half brothers we have a touchy relationship with" thing but also i think it's really interesting to think about how they are both characters who kind of push thru others to make what they want happen but elayne has managed to wrap the quality up in some level of (obviously imperious) charm while moiraine is just. iconically off-putting lmao

tldr i hope the show is wayyyyyy more confrontational about it!!! i want yelling i want devastating speeches!!!

#wot book spoilers #for real this time i think lmao #wheel of time #moiraine damodred #nynaeve al'meara #elayne trakand #wot on prime #feels like i might want to start a meta tag wih how much im enjoying shooting my mouth off lmao #wot meta #feels kind of like i am channelling rj himself when i type these things up lollll #uninterrupted babble with like. three interesting things buried underneath a mountain of text hehehe #moiraine is my baby my baby my baby!!!!

[cto10121]

The casually genius way Shakespeare first introduces Romeo and Juliet as characters is so underrated…like:

Both characters were mentioned/talked about before they even appeared

Both characters are “absent”—as in, the other characters don’t know where they are and want to find them

It is the auxiliary characters (the Nurse and Benvolio) who first speak/interact with them

The discussion is about relationships about other love interests, wanted or not (Romeo on Rosaline, Juliet on Paris)

Before they even met, Shakespeare was shipping them hard af building an association between the two as a couple.

#romeo and juliet #william shakespeare #rj meta #r&j meta #the difference ofc lies in their gendered socialization #romeo being 4 da streets and juliet confined at the house #romeo actively wanting rosaline and juliet encouraged to considered paris #i can’t ship these two harder than shakespeare’s narrative ships them

[twosides--samecoin]

mac & meta & accidental retcons

I've spent a lot of time over the past year and a half poring over MacCready's life & times while writing fic about him, so here's a little something from me, the CEO of the Useless RJ Knowledge Braintrust, for fellow RJ fans!

Did you know MacCready's gun in Fallout 4 is a modded version of the basegame F4 Hunting rifle?

After adding a long barrel and full stock, it becomes his signature sniper rifle. The player can build it using a workbench.

The closest real-world gun I have been able to approximate it to is the Winchester Model 70. It occupies a fascinating place in the history of firearms - this rifle was an improvement upon the Winchester Model 54, itself being part of the jump from lever-action to bolt-action that was innovated by the Mauser Gewehr 98.

Long story short, it has a fantastic reputation in sport shooting, and a gun known as "The Rifleman's Rifle" might as well be the perfect firearm for RJ. In my books, knowing the gun is still in production in today's world, it makes sense there would be Model 70s left over for RJ to find after the bombs.

An American original, much like RJ himself.

Although!

In the Fallout 3 Official Game Guide: Game of the Year Edition, we know the Lone Wanderer met him when RJ was 12. In Fallout 3, he has a R91 assault rifle - it even takes 5.56 ammunition, not the .308 ammo the rifle takes! It is based on the Heckler & Koch G3, a selective fire rifle (can be switched between semi/full auto). Decidedly not a bolt-action sniper rifle!

The Fallout 3 sniper rifle and its unique variants are not bolt-action either - all three are semi-automatic weapons.

However.. Perhaps this is where there was some confusion - here's the Fallout 3 hunting rifle.

Seems.. familiar, no? :D

(In-engine RJ screenshots are my own! Other images are not)

(Somewhat disclaimer? Sometimes retcons are done on purpose, sometimes they are genuine oversights. This is likely the latter. One way I always remember to extend grace to AAA developers is remembering that crunch is real and shit has a tendency to run downhill, which means the boardroom that makes the decisions affect the ability of the people making the game to maintain lore consistency.)

#robert joseph maccready #rj maccready #maccready #fallout 4 #fallout 3 #fallout screenshots #fallout meta

[cannoli-reader]

The Importance of the Two Rivers’ Sexual Mores

OThis was a point I touched on in a much larger, to the tune of TL;DR, post concerning adaptational changes from books to show, and I wanted to go into it as a standalone thing, because I really believe it needs to be said.  Under a cut, because I’m probably going to go all Cannoli on this, length-wise..

A lot of people have Opinions on the No Sex Until Married rule that is the de jure standard in the Two Rivers, which (some of) the Emond’s Field kids take with them, to varying degrees, when they go into the world  It should be noted that this is not some hard and fast puritanical standard.  People seem to get married fairly early, if they do, since they are picking from a relatively limited pool of prospects, and the powers that be seem to be fairly understanding about hooking up as long as it is done with respect for the rules.  Furthermore, the only ones who really seem affected by that rule are Rand, and on one occasion each, Nynaeve and Egwene, and in their cases, just to pass judgment on someone else. Perrin gets married fairly quickly and Mat DGAF. And Rand’s citation of the Rules, could just as easily be a rationalization of negative feelings resulting from his own internalized belief that he does not get to be happy.  So I think when a lot of people start complaining about the Two Rivers sexuality, they are projecting their own feelings or experiences with real world institutions with such rules, and especially, the prospect of sexy fun times being curtailed.  

Which is not the most obvious reaction from fans of a series in which Mat, Lan, Morgase and Berelain are subjected to various degrees of sexual abuse and exploitation, and Perrin has more than a few problems for which he bears no blame, through failure of Berelain to understand and respect his sexual boundaries, precisely because she comes from a less restrictive culture (along with the possibility that her  own sexual exploitation was a result of Mayene’s looser rules).  

I have seen readers who explicitly recognize and denounce what happens to Mat & Lan, nonetheless applaud or approve of the customs of “pretties” in Ebou Dar and the carneira in Malkier, again, projecting real world attitudes onto a practice that only superficially resembles the theoretical ideal in the real world, in this case, the idea of young people receiving practical sexual education, to constructively channel their hormonal urges, to guide them to a healthy embrace of their sexuality, and avoid traumatic experiences or harmful behavior caused by a combination of uncontrollable urges and a lack of knowledge.  When they are not outright admitting to pervy pedo fantasies or adolescent wish fulfilment, these concepts are almost always presented accompanied by a denunciation of puritanical, repressive and obsolete restrictions. And it is really weird for people to apply that theory to what we see in WoT of pretties and carneira, since the only on-page examples of both those customs features the older and more experienced party grossly abusing the spirit and even the letter of the law of the customs for their own agenda or gratification, and still getting away with it, even when their abuse is recognized as such.  But Edeyn Arrell’s treatment of Lan and Tylin’s treatment of Mat are acknowledged by characters in the story to be violations, who do absolutely nothing about it, except for not actively hindering the victim’s attempts to extricate himself from the abusive situation!  

Basically, while the idea of looking up from a coital entanglement with your future spouse, to see Nynaeve glaring at you, with the promise of an uncomfortable encounter with the Women’s Circle in her eyes, seems a lot less appealing than a graduate level course in Sex Ed at the hands of a smoking hot cougar in a palace bedchamber, one of those practices does not lead to, or promote, sexual abuse and one is shown to multiple times.  The Two Rivers way is not as bad as some people make it out to be, is what I am saying.

 But more important than whether or not the Two Rivers thing is good or bad for the characters, is the role it plays in the story itself.  As I noted, it is not a big thing that really has an impact all that much. Perrin or Mat are never shown to be guided or inhibited by the rules.  Egwene has an incongruous and largely subconscious disapproval of Elayne’s incompatible, to her eyes, reproductive situation and marital status, which she does not act on, and Nynaeve’s stream of consciousness phrasing of her observation of the interactions between bonded Aes Sedai and Asha’man includes her suspicion that they are “sharing a bed outside wedlock.”  But here’s the thing.  Nynaeve tends toward hyperbolic expressions that she does not act upon, and she has a more intuitive than analytical way of looking at things, processing observations through an emotional rather than logical framework.  What she is really fuming about is the inexplicably amicable relationships between Asha’man and Aes Sedai.  Nynaeve knows there is something going on beneath the surface there (and the readers already know that the Aes Sedai are making a premeditated effort to ingratiate themselves with their bondholders, while in general thinking with the common stereotype that men are easily controlled, or rendered amenable, by a sexual partner, so she’s not wrong), she doesn’t have enough to know what, and it bothers her, so she expresses her discontent with the situation by focusing on the familiar, namely her reaction for her customary position as the Wisdom in charge of upholding propriety for the Emond’s Field community.  Notice that what we never see her do is denounce, interfere with, or even express an opinion on Rand and Min openly cohabitating in the weeks they have been traveling with her since leaving Caemlyn, just as Egwene does or says nothing about Elayne’s pregnancy. 

And whatever he might think or say, Rand really doesn’t let those Two Rivers inhibitions hold him back.  When Berelain comes on to him, he cites a non-existent commitment to Egwene, which is hardly a value unique to the Two Rivers, whatever Berelain says, while thinking that he does not want a casual encounter with someone who is only interested in him as an object or status symbol instead of as a person. And his repressive Two Rivers upbringing has not remotely impeded his ability to recognize this motivation in a sexual encounter, nor left him vulnerable to exploitation through his lack of hands-on experience.   He brings up the necessity for marrying to rectify the situation after he sleeps with Aviendha, but there are other factors at play there, too. First of all, while he cites the rules, that is not his motivation in his stream of consciousness.

“’... I want to.' He was not sure of that at all, really... But for once he could do what was right because it was right.”

Rand’s impulse behind his proposal is driven by his ongoing need to keep breaking rules and violating his standards, in response to political realities.  He has to execute law breakers, he has to send men into danger or death, he has to overlook wrongdoing because he lacks the capacity to put a stop to it, or because he must prioritize greater evils (Morgase and Rahvin, for example) and he does not excuse his fault in these things because they are necessary.  But at every turn, he sees himself slipping, he sees himself losing a part of who and what he thought he was, or what he thinks he wants to be.  The rules and standards for being a decent person were things he absorbed as he was growing up, and are all the harder to overcome or set aside because of that.  They have very little to do with where and when he uses his genitalia, but about treating people in the right way and upholding your responsibilities. And unlike Elayne, for example, he was never taught that there are times when he might have to do the kinds of moral triage he is forced to all the time now.  It all ties in to his ongoing struggle with the loss of his identity and self-conception, and while he accepts that he has to let some parts of his old self go, it’s not easy, and something inside him rebels against it.  And rightfully so, because that fundamental decency is far more important to defeating the Dark One than any ability to make ruthlessly practical decisions to achieve a theoretical great good based on numbers or power calculations.  So when he comes across a situation where he does not have to act as the Dragon Reborn, and ignore the right thing to do, he is going to push to do that right thing.  That he believes he is doing right by a woman he loves only adds to that impetus.  And that he does not understand the woman he loves enough to recognize what she might actually want or see as important is pure Rand al’Thor.  

It’s the same thing with Min when he says that the Women’s Circle would not be amused by her rationalization of their spontaneous sexual encounter.  It’s not that he actually fears their judgment or even really thinks they are right, it’s just a handy reference point he can latch on to when arguing for his own condemnation.  Because of the trauma and self-recriminations he has undergone since his last sexual encounter (not helped by his own ignorance of what underlay Aviendha’s apparent rejection of him - in that case, the Aiel rules, for all their greater degree of sexual freedom & agency, do a lot more harm to their relationship or coming to a mutual understanding, than Two Rivers repression), he refuses to believe that Min wants to be intimate in any way, emotionally or sexually, with him, because he sees himself as toxic and harmful to others. He thinks the best thing for Min is to have as little as possible to do with him, and so he frames his actions toward her in the worst possible light, and cites the Women’s Circle as an authority who would agree with him.  It’s not the Women’s Circle he cites when Min propositions him later that day, despite her using the same term he says would have them “lining up to peel our hides”, it’s the practical priority of getting the most use out of his ta’veren nature while it is running strong.  Because “me time” is another thing Rand does not believe he deserves.  In subsequent books, his idea of what is good for his partners is the only thing that seems to hold him back at all, certainly never the morals of Emond’s Field or the wrath of the Wisdom. He never once notes any issues about sharing a bedroom with Min while in Nynaeve’s company in Far Madding and Tear. 

And yes, there are people who deride or mock or joke about Rand’s early awkwardness with regard to sex, and attribute it to his virginity and repression and if he and Egwene had just been having a fun old time when they were back in Emond’s Field, he’d have been so much more mature and able to cope with this situations better.  Maybe, but I suspect what is really going on there is vicarious identification with Rand, and a reluctance to see him come off less than spectacularly which I also suspect is at the root of a lot of criticism of Cadsuane’s treatment of him, and mischaracterizing her behavior, because of how it makes Rand feel or look.  They don’t like our boy being embarrassed, even if he deserves it, or it humanizes him. 

But those moments of awkwardness around the opposite sex serve a narrative purpose.  You see, Rand largely does move away from the Two Rivers shepherd we meet in the opening chapter, while remaining the same person.  It’s tricky to see how he has changed when we are in his head (part of the reason, I believe, why he has so little PoV material in The Dragon Reborn, to create a continuity break for the readers in his growth, so when we are presented with him anew in The Shadow Rising, we are no longer seeing the in-over-his-head shepherd who thinks he is only faking being a leader in tGH, but taking him in as a new iteration of the character), and it is important to the story’s purpose to remind us that under all the changes he is still the same Rand.  

That is the reason for the sexual awkwardness. In each case, it comes to undercut a moment of power or apparent change for Rand.  First, we see his reaction to Else Grinwell’s undisguised interest in him.  He and Mat have just stumbled onto a method of facilitating their journey and gaining resources, but his inability to deal with Else’s possible advances, and the danger he might face from being perceived as the one at fault serve reinforce that even with the  financial possibilities of the Emond Field Boy Band, they are still vulnerable in many ways and the ability to acquire food & lodgings they could not afford before this does not alleviate those dangers.

Next, he finds himself in the Royal Palace in Caemlyn, where it is discovered that he carries the weapon of a blademaster, and the most respected military mind in the room believes and argues that it is legitimately his sword.  He responds to the implicit threat of the attention of a Red Ajah Aes Sedai by standing up for himself, by arguing back against her speculations and even denying her knowledge of his housing situation.  This is kind of a high point for Rand at this place in the books, even in spite of the face-palming nature of his current predicament.  And the Queen believes him, rather than suspecting him or refusing to do anything for him, and gives him justice!  Awesome!  Rand is doing good.  So he gets cocky and tries to snark with Elayne, who, after all, was the one most to blame for the peril her mother has just lifted, but he is just not qualified to challenge someone trained to dominate social situations, since she learned to talk, and Elayne yanks the rug back out from under him with a comment that is both flirtatious and pointing out how she could have made it even worse.

Next we get it in Cairhien, where, between Lan’s lessons, Moiraine’s wardrobe upgrade, Ingtar’s notice of his promotion to second in command and Hurin needing him to take command, Rand is starting to do a pretty good job at acting like the man in charge and like someone who knows what he is doing.  He is asserting himself to a solider-lord and an Aes Sedai, and even his friends are starting to recognize he is becoming something more than a shepherd tourist.  Reunited with Verin & Ingtar, both of them validate his performance while alone and nominally in command.  And then he goes to Barthanes’ party, and manages to look like he belongs, or at least no one is kicking him out, and all the stuff he’s been told all book long that he can be a big shot seems like it just might be working.  So of course RJ has an assortment of Cairhienin ladies approach and proposition him in an extremely unsubtle fashion, until he flees to hide behind Thom, until Mat arrives to present the much less daunting prospect of confronting whatever Darkfriends might be on the trail he has just picked up. 

It’s something similar with Berelain sneaking into his bedroom - he made it to Tear in spite of a wide array of threats, he’s killed Forsaken, the High Lords, whose attitudes we got a sample of in Mat’s ill-fated card game, feel compelled to give him the best rooms, and he can create a lightsaber out of thin air, but he has no idea what to do about the sexy chick whose clothes are vanishing as they speak, beyond keeping her away with a force field, and even that doesn’t seem to be working.  As I mentioned above, the Rand to whom we are reintroduced in tSR has grown into his power and the leadership role he had extreme doubts about two books ago.  He even comes across as more physically powerful, with Berelain referencing his appearance in his first PoV chapter and Egwene and Elayne both taking note of his stature and physical presence, before his second. For myself, when I first read tSR, the mental image in my head was of a bigger individual, with a more imposing presence, like seeing Clark Kent in Book 1 & 2 and Superman in Book 4, or from Thomas Anderson in cubical-wear in EotW to Neo in a trench coat in tSR.  But RJ does not let us forget that he is still the same guy who was excited to meet the new visitors to the village on Winternight, by having him flail around helplessly or blushing or avoiding eye contact when Berelain or Elayne is in his bedroom. 

This is also why, from a Doylist perspective, Egwene has the stray thought changing her clothes to Two Rivers garb in bemusement at Elayne’s pregnancy or Nynaeve huffing about unmarried people sleeping together.  It’s just a reminder that the woman about to brief Aviendha on Aes Sedai issues and potential security concerns and the avatar of awesome who is about epically win the saga of Malkier, are still the two people who turned up huffing in disapproval at Mat’s antics, back when that seemed like a significant conflict.  

In short, the sexually conservative ways of the Two Rivers are one of the most effective and efficient ways in which Robert Jordan maintains continuity between the origins of the main characters, and the people they grow into, and serves better than anything to remind us that under all the powers, skills, experiences and burdens, they have not forgotten where they came from. 

#two rivers folk #wheel of time meta #sex in WoT #one rj is better than the other

[toastandjamie]

Okay so, I wanna preface this by saying that I have not read Sanderson’s other books so this is not a discussion about his actual abilities as a writer, and I’m not saying that he’s in anyway a bad writer. I do not envy the situation he was in At All, it must’ve been incredibly difficult to be given the responsibility of finishing such a long and beloved story as Wheel of Time. Trying to honor RJ’s story and characters when you are jumping in at the climax and expected to finish it in a way that the fans find satisfying when there is no way to make Every fan happy with the ending. Okay with that out of the way let’s talk.

So i have a lot of feelings about the final three books of Wheel of Time. There were many parts I enjoyed and there were also parts I was disappointed by. Personally, I felt like many aspects of the last three books felt rushed and incomplete and the pacing a bit odd in places and a lot of that comes down to the fact that it was originally meant to be one giant book, but like- that would’ve been ridiculous and I agree with the choice to break it up into multiple books. However I honestly think they should’ve just broke it up into more than three books to properly to pace them. There were a lot of things that Needed to happen that I think ended up causing certain things to get cut, for instance I do believe a big portion of both Mat and Min’s storylines in those last books were cut for time, specifically I think there was probably originally a lot more time dedicated to dealing with the Seanchen. What I believe to have happened is that Sanderson was given the notes about where the Black Tower needed to be and decided to dedicate the time to it and in exchange he cut the Seanchen plot line for pacing since the Seanchen were Technically already solved. Technically. Now controversial opinion but I did actually like Androl, however, I think he and the rest of the Black Tower suffered from having their storyline rushed. The plot line in the black tower should’ve started after the Ashaman with Rand betrayed them as we got to see the corruption already seeping into the Black Tower. Sadly that’s not what we got, but it honestly deserved an entire book to properly introduce it and it would’ve benefited from having pre-established characters that we cared about be more involved. Other parts of the story I think deserved more time dedicated to, the actual process of stealing the horn of Valere back from the White Tower, I wanted a heist mission with Faile and the Band but that is just personal preference lol. More time learning about Slayer and the red veiled Aiel, they were introduced and then promptly stopped actually mattering outside of being enemy fodder. Literally everything about Faine and the Evil of Shadar Logoth, Faine dying so quickly will forever disappoint me, he was a main antagonist since book one and his death felt very quick and unceremonious, like just tying up loose ends.

Next is issues with characterization. Once again I do not envy Sanderson’s job here at all. This type of thing isn’t easy but I can also see exactly where the issues were. Sanderson by his own admission didn’t understand Mat, and he Did get better at writing him but the damage was already done unfortunately and there wasn’t enough time to properly fix the issues with Mat’s characterization. Mat was not the only character whose characterization was flattened however, Aviendha and Tuon for instance also lacked a lot of their original nuance. I think it’s very clear where Sanderson struggled and that is with unreliable narrators. Characters that Sanderson seems to both enjoy the most and successfully write in a compelling way are characters who very straight forward and honest, their internal monologue matches their actions, and they reliably narrate their stories. Characters like Perrin and Galad thrived under Sanderson’s writing style. Androl is a very obvious example of this archetype being one that he’s comfortable writing. The issue he faced with both Mat and Tuon is that their unreliable narrators who act inconsistently to an outsider perspective and I think for Mat especially Sanderson struggled to get past his first impression of Mat. The biggest issue with Sanderson’s version of Mat is that his character arc was reset, Sanderson’s Mat was still running away from his destiny and trying to avoid Rand, something Mat had already worked past in books four and five with Melindra and the Rhavin incident teaching him to accept his destiny and embrace his role as Rand’s General. This meant that Mat and Tuon’s relationship lost a large part of its nuance and Mat’s actions felt out of character and immature for the point in the story we reached. There’s also the difference in how RJ wrote Mat’s “flirtatious play boy” status versus how Sanderson portrays it and it can feel a bit jarring at times, and just in general, I feel like Sanderson often wrote Mat as “stupid” where he very much isn’t. He’s reckless and mischievous but never stupid and I think Sanderson equated his recklessness with stupidity in some places.

Writers play favorites, and it does show, RJ’s favorite was Mat and Sanderson’s favorite was Perrin and both are very obvious preferences. Poor Rand was neither writers favorite but it’s okay because as the protagonist he at least got consistent page time dedicated to him. RJ definitely paid more attention to Mat than Perrin and Sanderson did vice versa. So I’m not complaining just because I wanted Mat to get more page time. My issues with it are that Mat ended up feeling a bit underwhelming during the last battle. Where all other characters got to have their spotlight moment during a Memory of Light, Mat didn’t; and perhaps that’s because Towers of Midnight was originally part of a Memory of Light so Mat had got his big moment in the final book during the original draft. The Seanchen overall felt like it was resolved in an underwhelming manner, as did the Shadar Logoth plot line and it just so happens that both of those plot lines were Mat’s and I do think Sanderson’s bias informed his decision at least subconsciously when choosing which storylines to trim down.

In summary I would’ve rather Sanderson made it five more whole books if it meant that all the plot lines could be given enough time to be resolved in a fully satisfactory way.

#wheel of time #wheel of time spoilers #wot meta #wot book spoilers #brandon sanderson wot books #literary analysis my beloved #I love this book series so much #I really wish I could’ve read the finale that RJ would’ve written

[incandescentflower]

My Tooth Your Love continues to kinda go sideways on the expectations. I did not expect: (spoilers ahead)

Cop & criminal role play (I may have said Oh my god aloud)

Not being overly frustrated by this separation we knew would happen. That stuff usually makes me nuts, but they paced it so that Bai Lang knows something is wrong, but that Xun-An hasn't just disappeared. As usual, the ordering and comments of the previews made it seem so much more frayed than it was.

The father story. I knew Xun-An would be injured, but that situation really ups his long suffering in silence quotient. Now instead of yelling at the screen "Bai Lang, let Xun-An love you," I'll have to yell "Xun-An, let Bai Lang love you."

But seriously, I appreciate how they're balancing the povs now and trying to show some serious things people have to work out, especially in the face of bigotry. But this is intense.

It definitely really calls out Qi-Ran's whole - you have everything easy line of thinking toward Xun-An. It doesn't seem like this is an isolated situation. This seems like Xun-An's father's view of "discipline." But again, that's what this show is about - saying that things aren't always what they seem, you don't always have the full story. I love that it's keeping that going, even if what they are saying about Xun-An's life is hard to take. I just hope we get to see him rely on Bai Lang in the face of this. For someone who seems so emotionally open, this is obviously a huge thing that he has shoved to the background.

If I don't get some broken open Xun-An in the next episode, I'm gonna riot (or write some fic about it).

The engagement previews thing where Bai Lang closes the box will I think be Bai Lang being like "are we ready for that level if we can't share burdens?" (and of course Xun-An would go zero to married, it's exactly what we'd expect)

I feel so much anticipation for such a satisfying conclusion and also very sad it will be over. What a wonderfully surprising, thought-provoking, lovely little drama. I can't get over it.

#my tooth your love #spoilers #meta #my tooth your love episode 11 #they give me practically everything I want so I am waiting hopefully #this show makes good on its promises #am a bit surprised at the slow burn alex/rj #but i needed Alex pov so that's ok for me

[advictoriams]

Saints Row made me think about MacCready freelancing as a mercenary and I realised something.

250 is chump change. Especially when the caps conversion rate is on the dollar. (1 cap=1 dollar).

250 isn't even a holding fee. Now 2000 caps, that is a little more negotiable.

I'm surprised mercenary OCs don't laugh at MacCready for charging so low. I guess, don't run with militia cartels maybe?

Like he might as well just ask Sole/OC/whatever to pay him in 🌈 ✨Exposure✨🌈

#fallout #saints row #meta sort of? #rj maccready #but also MacCready bullying

[procrastinationau]

I love the new icon XD If RJ wanted to change his look (redesign) you have any ideas on what that'd look like?

I still haven't figured that out tbh lmfao I have some ideas, but I'm not sure how drastically he'd change his look if he did. Part of it for me is that while he wants to distinguish himself from Jack he's also deeply attached to the idea/aesthetic of "being evil" that Jack gave up, so in some ways leaning into Jack's old look would make as much sense as him drastically changing his appearance.

I also think he'd find it funny/useful to have people constantly mistaking him for Jack despite the fact that he looks 15 lmfao.

#meta #au spoilers #RJ