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secretsofdbz · 2 months

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Alright, timelines. (link to my old post)

Today I'm going to walk you through the cluster fuck of Toriyama not paying attention to what he writes from the Trunks arc to the epilogue of the Perfect Cell arc.

Reminder that I divide the "Android Saga" in 4 arcs:

Trunks arc (arrival of Frieza to 3yg training),

Android arc (until the time machine is discovered)

Imperfect Cell arc (until Cell absorbs 18)

Perfect Cell arc (+ epilogue of Trunks killing imperfect Cell)

I will also pull Toei and Daizenshu content if needed just to show how bad it gets, BUT that's just to enhance my argument. Everything here is manga-deductible without extra context or content.

As I've shown in the link above, the manga implies 4 timelines:

Forgotten timeline (Cell kills Trunks and steals his time machine),

Lost timeline (the timeline that dead!Trunks traveled to, which did not have a Cell pop in the middle of its Android Saga, otherwise Trunks would've known about Cell),

Future Timeline (the one we know and see, Trunks traveled to a uni where Cell traveled to first, so there's changes and Cell pops up in the Android saga),

Main Timeline (the one we know and follow, to which Cell and Trunks traveled to),

Let's go into details about dates and math and everything first. (under the read more because LONG)

When Future Trunks discovers dead!Trunks' time machine, he states that it comes from age 788, which is 3 years from where he comes from (which means he comes from 785), and that the Machine landed here "4 years ago". 4 years ago was about one year before Trunks first came (aka one year before Meca Frieza stuff).

During the first trip, Trunks states he comes from 20 years into the future.

That means during his first trip, he went from 784/785 to 764.

We also know he's 17 at this point and "will be born in 2 and a half years"

(Baby Trunks is supposed to be ~6 months old by May 12th, 767, so "I warn in 764, I'll be born in 2.5 years, so I was born in 766" works. Ignoring the wikis about Trunks' birthday being June and Future Trunks' birthday being in November, it doesn't matter here, we just need the years))

For Trunks to be 17 during his first trip, he needs to travel from 784 (before his 18th birthday). So by the time he comes back the second time, it needs to be in 785 (so he is 18!); since it takes 8 months to charge the machine (Trunks the Story manga chapter), that works out.

So in terms of trips, we have:

Trunks (both versions) : (early-mid) 784 to 764

Trunks (both versions): (early-ish) 785 to May 12th 767

Cell: 788 to 763

(handy recap sheet)

At the time, for Toei, there were only two Timelines (aka it was both multiverse theory AND dynamic time travel theory, because Trunks becoming aware of Cell who killed him means Trunks isn't killed by Cell... yeah it's all sorts of EHH ??):

Anyway, you'd think this would be fine right? The image of Cell killing Trunks while he still had his sword (which he shouldn't since he broke it on 18's arm he never used it again in canon) is anime filler, we're all good.

Except... no. This fucking panel right here. Cell explains "(the machine/bots collecting dna) could've gotten Trunks cells but didn't because we had enough Saiyan cells".

Cell supposedly comes from a timeline where GOKU killed Frieza and Cold. But this god forsaken panel contradicts that. (of course it's just that Tori forgot, but we are DB fans, we take things seriously and word of god of the manga is supreme and can't be wrong)

This means that THIS particular version of Cell doesn't come from the Forgotten Timeline.

The Cell we know and love/hate comes from a timeline in which a future Trunks killed Frieza and Cold, BUT everything still went to shit (Goku + gang dying, dead!Trunks traveling to the past, and coming back to destroy the Androids).

In this timeline, Bulma met Future Trunks (who killed Cold and Frieza) in 764, presumably the gang got all the warnings like in the main timeline, but everyone STILL died. So she invented the Time Machine to send her Trunks to the past (perhaps with different instructions so as to not repeat the mistakes of the Future Trunks she saw 20 years prior).

Here's the thing. There is a way for this timeline to exist. You "just" gotta work on the postulate that "each time there's a time travel to the past, a new branch is created". And "if the time machine travels back in time a second time, it lands in the timeline it first branched out unless it travels back further in time". Rephrased: The "784 to 764" trip created a new branch in 764. The "785 to 767" trip landed in that new 764 branch. However the "788 to 763" trip created a whole new branch in 763.

The Time Machine that was piloted by dead!Trunks actually "traveled further back in time", creating an earlier "branch"... which is why Trunks noticed changes, including Goku's late arrival (or Frieza's earlier arrival, we don't know).

Yes, because Future Goku did not use Instant Transmission to fight Frieza and Cold. We know he didn't because Future Bulma had the coordinates where Goku landed, which is how Future Trunks got said coordinates. If Goku had IT to fight Frieza and Cold, Bulma wouldn't have known where the pod was going to land 3 hours later.

So timelines and where does Cell come from? Well you need a timeline from the Branch that started in 764 (with a Future Trunks' arrival to kill Frieza and Cold) but in which everyone died to the Androids, and in which, when Trunks traveled back home, he was able to destroy the Androids...

Anyway here's my final recap of all the timelines in Z, in which "one time travel is one interference creating a new branch". And this is how we can see where Cell comes from :D

This opens a realm of possibilities!!

Did a version of Trunks stay in the past, during his first trip and got a wish to Shenron to have a way to destroy his androids, so he didn't come back in 767 and didn't grow strong at all? Did the future trunks that warned against the Androids but that timeline still went to shit approached the problem differently?? who knows! Time for fanfics and doujins I guess :D

Peace!

#time travel #dragon ball #dragon ball z #von rambles #future trunks #future goku #future bulma #time machine #dbz #db #bulma #timelines #obviously Toriyama just forgot and or didn't pay attention to what he was laying out but I love nitpicking and extrapolating from this stuff

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sapphic-agent · 21 days

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I read your analysis and anti bakugou posts and I want to say thank you!

Going to be kinda long so I’m sorry!

There is another fandom where there is character exactly like bakugou; angry, violent, egotistical and target his hate and aggression to one person only.

the character name is Jiāng cheng from the MDZS novel. But the narrative in the story doesn’t treat all the shit that jerk did as right, it the opposite. He seen as vile that nobody want to associate with (getting banned from all the match making places in the story even)

He never takes the spotlight of the two main nor he is redeemed characters instead seen as pathetic and arrogant jerk he is. The MC, Wei wuxian who was his adoptive brother (not really more like a servant that got treated like a dog) cut ties with him in the end.

He a well written and rounded character but the character personality is shit and I don’t really like him. And the narrative isn’t treating him any differently than being a piece of shit

Why I’m telling you this? Because I feel like if MHA have been written by someone who isn’t Hori bakugou would not have gotten away with the shit he did in the story.

beside the point of the way the narrative treat Jiang cheng, it’s the fandom. When I got into the MDZS fandom I was so disappointed to see bakugou stans 2.0 there but instead of bakugou it’s Jiang cheng.

Both bakugou and Jiang cheng get the same treatment in the fandom as “UWU needs to protect the angry violent person” and “it’s the MC fault our cute UWU baby didn’t do anything wrong” and lots of stuff that I bet you seen in the bnha fandom

It’s sad that even if the story shows that what Jiang cheng wasn’t right (unlike bakugou case where the story doesn’t make him have any consequences) people would outright be mean to other people just because they follow the canon prototype of the character in their fics (I seen it and it’s horrible)

And, in fics it’s seems that every time that Jiang cheng appears in the scene he makes everyone OOC (if the fic is sticking to canon personality). Makes them act like they won’t ever act; it’s the same thing with bakugou (in canon and fanon respectively sadly)

I love to call it the “black hole effect” when a certain character just make the scenes about them no matter the context, like a black hole.

Im sorry this is all over the place, im not really good with words and i used to be pretty active in both fandoms but now its really hard because bakugou and Jiang cheng stans are overall tiring to deal with and they seems to grow up in numbers everyday and yeah… 👍

Have a nice day and week!

Hi! I've never read it but it sounds interesting.

I always try to tell Bakugou stans, it's not the fact that Bakugou's an awful person. I don't care about that. Fictional characters aren't real and can be liked for whatever even if they're vile pieces of shit. It's okay to like a vile piece of shit.

What's not okay is creating that vile piece of shit and then brushing over and never calling out their horrible actions. What's not okay is everyone around them condoning their behavior. What's not okay is pandering to them over their victims. What's not okay is never making them face consequences for their actions. What's not okay is constantly putting them on a pedestal for doing the bare minimum.

Look at Vegeta (RIP Toriyama). Vegeta is always getting humbled and called out. He is never going to surpass Goku because never getting what he wants is part of his retribution. Considering his actions, he should be worse than Bakugou. But he's a way better character because of how the narrative and the other characters treat him.

(You can even compare specific instances. When Bakugou rushed ahead and attacked Kurogiri and got Thirteen seriously hurt, no one said a thing to him and he still won all his fights. He faced zero repercussions. When Vegeta let Cell absorb 18, he immediately got his ass kicked and had to get saved by Trunks and Krillin. Vegeta's actions always affect him terribly, Bakugou's actions always affect everyone else terribly while he gets off scott-free)

DBZ came out decades ago and it still created a better character arc than a 2010s-2020s manga. Horikoshi could have easily given Bakugou a proper redemption arc. He chose not to

#mha critical #bnha critical #anti bakugou katsuki #anon ask #vegeta #rip toriyama

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rfswitchart · 2 months

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What Redemption Means to Me

With the passing of Akira Toriyama as well as some things going on in my life, I think I'd like to talk about something that means a lot to me in writing... Redemption Arcs. Obviously, Vegeta's gonna be talked about here. Hunter from Owl House, sure. And I'll even throw Zuko from ATLA in here for free.

All three of them are considered evil right off the bat. They don't hide that they will do cruel and horrible things to either get their way or because it's fun. Then we find out that they weren't really evil so much as horribly abused and used to serve a purpose (Vegeta was basically handed to Frieza because King Vegeta and the rest of the Sayians were oppressed. Hunter did everything for Belos, who he thought was his uncle, and that Belos 'cared' for him. Zuko was 'dishonored' because his father said so, not to mention he got his face burned by his father.) And that their behavior is a reflection of the suffering and lives they've had. That, of course, is why we see them change...

Vegeta, on his dying breath in the battle against Frieza, basically told Goku everything about the fate of the Sayians, crying tears of anguish because he couldn't avenge his people after what the alien tyrant did. His heart changes even further when he has a relationship with Bulma and they have Trunks and Bulla. Does he lapse back into old habits and desire to defeat Goku? Sure. But even when he becomes Majin, he realizes that his family give him something strength can never give him. Love, the love of family long lost, and hope that his species will live on through his children.

Hunter, meanwhile, meets Luz and it made him question if helping his uncle is worth it. This was further compounded after kidnapping the Entrails when he realized he was hurting Willow and would rob them of their palismen to feed Belos and grant him a longer life. After seeing he was just a disposable puppet and clone of Belos brother (That he murdered,) Hunter fled to Hexside and eventually befriended Gus. Hunter lived a sheltered life and is saved by friendship and love (yes, Hunter and Willow were basically in love from the get go. Y'all need better media literacy if you think otherwise.)

Now, Zuko is a little different. Sure, the Gaang did help him figure things out and help him see the error in his ways, but who are we kidding. The thing that truly put Zuko on the path of good was his uncle, Iroh. Iroh never lost faith in his nephew, even when the boy lost his way and betrayed him. He always tried to show Zuko the right path to follow and give him advice when he needed it. Granted, it couldn't help Zuko make a decent cup of tea, but hey, he did at least come to understand what was right and gave him the tools to forge his own destiny.

Personally, I like these stories because my life has also been a redemption arc of sorts. Stop me if you've heard this one before. I was bullied and abused by family, classmates, friends, and lovers. I hurt people and lashed out because I was hurt and scared, even people I care about. And then, realized I messed up and having people who genuinely love and support me, I started to change into a better, more loving and compassionate person. Characters like Vegeta, Hunter, and Zuko are the kinds of people I am. People who have been misguided and done wrong, but also have worked hard to become much better people. No one is ever beyond redemption... I mean, unless you're Frieza, Belos, or Ozai. Fuck them.

#dragon ball #dragon ball z #akira toriyama #rip akira toriyama #the owl house #toh hunter #avatar the last airbender #zuko #prince zuko

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yamcha-thelonewolf · 5 months

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🫀The Heart's Savior.

Hello everyone, wolfpack! As I promised, here is part two on Yamcha's key role in the Androids and Cell saga. For those of you who have not yet read part one, you can catch up with my analysis of Yamcha and Goku's relationship by clicking here.

PART 2: The Present.

This time, as I anticipated in the previous post, I will deal with the present. This means that just as Yamcha took care of his past, in this case represented by Goku, he also went out of his way to take care of what was happening around him. So I am referring to those moments when there was no time to stop and think, or those moments when there was nothing else to do but give comfort or any kind of help.

Before we get into that, I want to point out an aspect of Yamcha that I think is curiously impossible to eradicate. Let's face it, Akira Toriyama did not treat him very well. Or rather, he didn't make the most of him. Although I'm sorry to say it, I think all of Yamcha's potential came up not because Toriyama really wanted it, but because in his mind he needed someone to sentence those exact words. So Yamcha was always a tool, and as long as he expressed himself to give support to his friends it could have been fine. The problem arises when at some point (precisely upon Trunks' arrival) Yamcha changes dramatically, becoming a wimp who prefers to run away instead of a daredevil who is willing to do anything to help. I would like to recall that long ago, despite having a broken leg, he had ignored this disability of his to go and help Goku and Tenshinhan against the Great Demon King Piccolo. Or even, it was always Yamcha who had motivated his friends to join Goku and face the Red Ribbon army together with him.

So it is strongly logical that the "new Yamcha" we see is not the result of a sensible character change but simply the result of a stupid and awkward narrative necessity. When Trunks arrives in the past and shortly thereafter reveals himself, Akira Toriyama could not afford to put Bulma on the wrong side. She was still the second main character in Dragon Ball, and besides that her relationship with Yamcha, despite its ups and downs, was loved by many. I mean, even the original voice actors of the two were convinced that sooner or later they would really get married, so their breakup had to look like something that made sense; moreover, the breakup had to justify Bulma's final decision and especially redeem the figure of Vegeta, who from then on would officially take Tenshinhan's place as Goku's historical rival. How to do this, then? Simple: Yamcha is a stupid good-for-nothing cheating womanizer who is afraid of everything. Problem solved! Well… Not really, but still it must be admitted that Toriyama has succeeded to some extent since many Dragon Ball fans are really convinced of this. I will discuss this on another occasion. Now it is important to point out that in this arc it is absolutely evident that there is an attempt to scuttle the character in every way possible, but as I said before, it almost seems as if Yamcha himself tried to take over and go beyond the wishes of his author. Simply put: it got out of their control. Majin Yamcha cannot exist!

I mean, it's as if he wants to say, "Okay jerks, you wanna make me useless? Fine, but I'll be in my own way!"

Here you can see Yamcha lashing out at the Toei Animation people of making him look useless.

Of course, these are just impressions. We will never know how much they realized Yamcha's value, but let us say that even though they represented him in this saga as a mere sidekick or driver or nurse, they unintentionally made him greater than he already was. And it's nice to be able to see that even though Yamcha was backed into a corner, he still managed to make a difference. This shows how even for Toei Animation and Toriyama it is impossible to distort this character. That's why I say that it is Yamcha himself who is rebelling against his unfair fate: his way of doing things, which we have come to know from the beginning of Dragon Ball, cannot be changed. He may be an adorable clown, he may be afraid of new enemies and he may even be weaker than others, but that does not mean that he is ridiculous, cheater and especially useless.

Keep all this in mind: on the one hand we have Toriyama's willingness to destroy the character, and on the other hand we have Yamcha whose few "superfluous" lines disproves it all. It is a sneaky battle that I urge you to notice better, especially since it is from these seemingly unnecessary moments of his that Yamcha's heroism is best delineated.

Well, now we can really start.

Buckle up because this is going to be a looooong read.

In this chapter we will see how Yamcha not only took care of Goku and Chichi, but also of many other people. We are in the present, that is the time when absolutely no misstep is allowed. Any wrong attitude could change the fate of the world, and Yamcha knows this well because Trunks told of a disastrous future in which there is nothing left but hope. Here is the key word. Hope. It is said to be the last to die, and that is absolutely true, but in order for it to endure over time, even when everything falls apart, it is important that it be fueled by love. Yamcha is the absolute personification of this. Throughout Dragon Ball he has always been the first to hope and believe that all is not lost. Moreover, he has always been the one who has consoled and helped the characters not to break down. As I have already said, this attitude is essential for a fighter. Being emotionally prepared for a battle can change things, and we have seen this many times. So that Yamcha is a real motivational coach should not go so unnoticed, especially in a context where even Goku's strength is doubted.

In short: Yamcha is the one who saves the mood.

So, dear friends, we will now explore together those little details that could rehabilitate our beloved Yamcha and make him essential in a context that does not seem to have considered him enough.

...No, wait. May I begin by saying that Yamcha saved even the Kame House?

Come on, I'm kidding. Let's start with a rather simple scene. In this case, the character called upon is Tenshinhan.

The friendship between Yamcha and Tien is crazy. Their rivalry during the 22nd Tournament was stronger than that between Goku and Tien himself, which made their reconciliation even more exciting.

We are at the moment when Tenshinhan tries to stop Cell from absorbing Android 18. His strength is dwindling out of all proportion; at Kame House Chiaotzu and Yamcha sense that their friend is doomed. Therefore Yamcha proposes to rush to his rescue. Although it is nothing new that Yamcha wants to take action to save his friends in danger, this is a small scene that shows how incongruent Dragon Ball has become at some point. Okay, I can also accept that Yamcha is a guy who feels he has to act only when the situation is particularly close to him and his heart is tickled, but I absolutely do not accept that his will to do is always stopped by a force superior to him: the plot.

In this case, Muten stops Yamcha's determination by telling him that going to help Tien wouldn't be smart because they would risk death as well. All right, it may be true, but Yamcha certainly didn't want to stop Cell. Yamcha only wanted to save his friend, also because we all know the lethal effects of the (Shin) Kikoho. It means Yamcha would have picked up Tien and carried him away, or at best it means he would have helped him by using his Sokidan to distract the enemy, or even the kamehameha. I want to emphasize it again: not to kill Cell, but just to distract him and buy time. Well, for reasons unknown to us, the saying "unity makes strength" does not apply if you are an earthling. At least at this time, since at the end of the Cell Saga everyone will seriously join forces to help Gohan. And may I have my say? It is the highest moment in all of Dragon Ball Z, because for the first and only time all the Z-Fighters unite to defeat the enemy and win.

Whatever. Let's ignore what to me is a big plot mistake and focus again on Yamcha: as you can see, he would have wanted to do much more than what he was given and the fact that he wants to intervene against Cell, who is even stronger than the Androids 19 and 20 who almost took him out, confirms how Yamcha was thwarted by the narrative and not by his supposed weakness.

It is quite funny that all these contradictions and all the attempts to make him a good-for-nothing, if seen from the right perspective, can seriously save Yamcha's reputation. You just have to be a little more careful. Be that as it may, once again we can see how Yamcha's heart is big enough to put his own life on the line in order to save his close friend. If only Toriyama Muten had not stopped him…

Now it is Gohan's turn.

If taking care of Goku and Tien is more obvious because they are two friends he has loved for so long, taking care of Gohan is quite different. Well, let's say that what Yamcha feels for anyone is unconditional love. He loves and it is by loving that he is able to feel stronger. It is a feeling that goes even beyond hatred, but we will talk about that another time. In Gohan's case, Yamcha's love takes on an even symbolic role.

At this point you might think that I am abusing the word "love", but…. Did you read that correctly? It is Yamcha himself who uses it. What's more, he is the only one who uses it. After all, Yamcha is the only one who explicitly admits his desire to love. Bulma's first wish was to find a boyfriend, while Yamcha's dream was to get married and consequently love someone for the rest of his life. He is the most romantic character of all, and it is a pity that this peculiarity of his is seen as one more reason to think him weak. Instead, I believe that confessing certain feelings makes him even stronger than all those who hide them. So I'm really glad that at such an important moment Yamcha has spoken words that are absolutely in line with his character. At least in this he has not been distorted.

Although it is evident that the boy's second father is Piccolo, we can also speculate that he was not the only one. Especially after Goku's death, I like to think that someone like Yamcha visited Chichi and her son often so that they would not be lonely. After all, Chichi is also pregnant, which further supports the hypothesis that Yamcha may have been there for them in some way. Uncle Yamcha, right? Sounds good! But let me tell you our dear bachelor dude has the makings of a good father. I mean, maybe during these years he was actually the one who taught Gohan how to play baseball? Who knows...

As I told you in the previous chapter, Goku has been like a little brother to protect for Yamcha. Even if Goku was definitely stronger than Yamcha and could defend himself, the little saiyan possessed a great weakness: he was naive. How many times was he teased by villains because he had trusted them? And how many times was he taken by surprise by enemies because he had no idea who they were? Well, Yamcha helped him open his eyes many times. He has watched over him where Goku's innocence was not enough, and using his own bandit-like nose in his favor, Yamcha has gotten him out of little and big trouble. The only reason I don't call him paternal is only because the age difference is minimal, but certainly the drawings from long ago help to better convey the idea of how much Yamcha's stature shielded Goku's pudgy little body.

I always found this moment tender because Bulma, Yamcha and Goku look just like mommy, daddy and son. Therefore, it is not at all strange to imagine that all this kind of love felt for Goku has also projected toward his son. However, this time the fatherhood is definitely evident, both because the age difference between Yamcha and Gohan is greater and because it could only be otherwise. We said that Yamcha's mission is to take care of everyone, right? So do you think he could have ever backed down from helping the son of the man who led him to the path of good?

It is the most natural thing Yamcha can do. As he loved Goku when he was small and innocent now he loves his son. He owes it to him. Personally, I do not consider it an accident that it is Yamcha himself who takes Gohan in his arms. He could have taken care of Trunks' body, but since Yamcha is Goku's guardian he could only take care of his child. Ultimately we can say that Yamcha, in this saga, has taken care of the complete Son family. He cared for Goku during his illness, consoled and comforted Chichi, and finally helped Gohan when the evil had been defeated. I find it emotional that Gohan says thank you to him. It seems like a small thing, but considering Yamcha's treatment in recent years, it is nice to be able to see that characters once respected him for what he did.

As evidence of his value, there is also this brief exchange of words between Yamcha and Tien in which Yamcha's good heart is emphasized even more. Despite suffering from the fight against the Cell Juniors, one of whom even broke his arm, Yamcha ignores these painful wounds and equally takes the boy in his arms as if nothing happened. It really seems that his desire to protect Gohan is stronger than the suffering he is experiencing physically. Seriously, at this point I really cannot believe how it is possible for such a pure character to be brutally hated or mocked.

Guys, we are almost finished. Actually I would have gone on even longer than that, but I don't want to bore you so much. I just think Yamcha deserves all this attention, and since we possess few moments of him I feel that dwelling on his seemingly tiny actions is essential to redeem the character. When I say make Yamcha great again I really mean that he was once great in earnest, and I hope that this will be noticed someday even by those who did not understand him enough. Also by reading all of this or other people reflections in the web.

Now let's go back and address an equally historic friendship, that between Yamcha and Krillin.

Yamcha and Krillin share a deeper bond than people think. For example, many people do not remember that the two of them trained together under Muten's supervision, just as Goku and Krillin did long before; also always together they experienced the Fortuneteller Baba adventure, climbed Karin's tower, and finally trained at the same time in Kami's palace. We can safely say that Yamcha and Krillin share many more moments together than Krillin experienced with Goku, and while this does not necessarily make them best friends, it does not mean that the love they have for each other is any less.

The result of this important relationship is found once again in the Cell Arc. I told you, this is where Yamcha plays all his cards and shows that he has done everything for everyone.

The scenes between Yamcha and Krillin are also the simplest in this entire analysis, but I still would not take them for granted. For example, here we witness a psychologically devastating moment for Krillin. His guilt over not pressing the remote control button that would have destroyed Android 18 grips him to the point where he makes the decision to confront Cell and thus repair the damage done, but once again Toriyama Muten stops him because it is not his place to fight. So we see him distressed, angry with himself and in the throes of an impending nervous breakdown, but suddenly a hand rests on his shoulder and with that simple warmth tries to sweep away all his frustration.

Yeah, it is Yamcha again. Once again he steps in to lift someone's spirits, and while it may not necessarily make Krillin really feel better, it is still to be appreciated that Yamcha did not make him feel alone and guilty at an absolutely sensitive time. I mean, the world was also falling apart because of that fatal decision by Krillin. It is normal that he felt wrong, but Yamcha immediately puts himself in his friend's shoes and without a second thought rescues him as much as he can, because he cannot accept Krillin's collapse. Controlling every single emotion continues to be crucial.

Be that as it may, I find this scene as touching as it is sad. It is touching because once again Yamcha is there for his friends, but it is sad because if we go back over and review the scene where Yamcha feels impotent in helping Tien, no one rests a hand on his shoulder to make him feel better. Toriyama Muten remains quite impassive and this only increases the sense of uselessness that is intended to be given to Yamcha. I swear to you, writing all this makes me really sick. It's like I see myself in this kind of unfair loneliness that never seems to want to let him go.

Well, however, this is not the end of the story. Actually I would say that now the most depressing part of the topic begins. When I say that Yamcha was destroyed in every possible way, I really mean in every possible way. Although this saga indeed contains so many good moments of him, it is also the arc that definitively marks his death. In fact, from this moment on, Yamcha is deprived even of his only purpose, which is to get married, because he is given over to Krillin himself. The decision to tie him to Android 18 is as beautiful as it is sadistic, if we see the whole situation from Yamcha's point of view. Krillin has never expressed a desire to marry and fall in love. From the beginning, he has always seen martial arts as an excuse to impress girls, and while this does not mean that he should not find a woman for life, it is quite unfair that once again Yamcha's wish has gone unheeded. This would have been the perfect opportunity to fulfill his dream, but for who knows what reason (come on, we know why by now…) they decided that it should be Krillin who should get married. Mind you, I am absolutely happy for him. The Krillin/18 couple is one of the most beautiful. All I am saying is that it is not fair to a character who has ALWAYS sought love. His misfortune in love is no longer funny. Being a positive character, I think it is fair to give him at least a win, but as we will see somehow Yamcha will make his case in other ways. He is not the type to be so easily put down, and that is why his many facets make him one of the most interesting characters in Dragon Ball.

This is one of the most tender moments in Dragon Ball but also one of the most misunderstood. Yamcha comes off as a bit of a fool in this scene because he is the only one who is afraid of Android 18, but I defy anyone not to have smiled a little at his comedy. After so many episodes where we have been with dread in our eyes because of Cell, Yamcha's lightheartedness is a breath of fresh air. In a way, it is as if he takes us back in time, when in Dragon Ball we rejoiced over little. He is the fighter who keeps the soul of OG Dragon Ball alive.

But Yamcha doesn't just make us laugh. Yamcha shows us that after all the hatred felt for Cell it is love that is what remains. Love and hope. Although Goku is gone, the world keeps turning and it is absolutely necessary to continue to have faith and live life even more than before. Therefore Yamcha does not hesitate and, as a good friend, does everything to help Krillin hope. If it were not for his encouraging words, Krillin would have left the palace disappointed to have missed an important opportunity. Instead, Yamcha instills in him a small chance, helps him notice that Android 18's does not feel like a farewell, and most importantly, he does not make him feel unworthy. A similar thing happens in the videogame FighterZ, where Yamcha and Krillin have a conversation about women and it turns out that Krillin has an attraction to female androids. He seems ashamed of this, but Yamcha doesn't mind. On the contrary, he reassures his friend to never make him feel wrong, because at the end of the day, love has no limits and he knows well that. He supports him. He supports everybody, but unfortunately nobody supports him. That's why we have to do it!

I have always found this lovely. Yamcha always cheered for his friends, even when they managed to get married. He was never envious, never tried to stand in the way of their happiness, always smiled for them. This is the most beautiful characteristic of Yamcha, especially when we consider that it is highly likely that this disproportionate love he feels for others goes hand in hand with his sense of loneliness. It is as if helping others distracts him from the sense of failure he feels for himself.

Like here. It almost seems as if Krillin is apologizing for stealing his chance to get married. As if he's trying to say "hey man, sorry I'm the one who found love and not you. I am so sorry that your fate in this story is so bad. You don't deserve it, friend". It's just a figure of speech, because obviously there is no connection between Yamcha and Android 18, but I think you get my point.

Yamcha even calls him silly. Not only because one should never apologize when it comes to love, but especially because it is not his style to stand in the way of the feeling that most represents him. Oh please, let's ignore that Yamcha has to give an expensive necklace to his "girlfriend." I gather from these few words that she is definitely not the kind of woman he deserves, but we will talk about that another time. Regardless, it is good to see Krillin smiling thanks to Yamcha, since until recently he was sad about losing Android 18 and especially his close friend Goku. He would have returned to the Kame House in the wrong mood, and we all know how a bad day can be fatal. Who knows, maybe it is because of this nudge from Yamcha that Krillin and Android 18 got together.

We end this long journey in the present with this beautiful frame of Krillin saying thank you to Yamcha, just as Gohan had done. I think this is the saga where he is finally given the gratitude he deserves, and all in all it's okay. It's just too bad that this is the last time Yamcha will be respected. And as I have already reiterated, it is unfortunate that few people have noticed this. We will see a little something in the Buu Arc, but it certainly won't be enough.

I want to conclude this analysis with a simple reflection. I hope everyone is aware that the main theme of the Androids and Cell saga is hope. Hope is what drove Mirai Trunks to the past, and as I have already said, hope is the only thing that remains in his future.

If we focus on this word, doesn't it seem to you that Yamcha is the total reincarnation of this feeling? Think about it. He is the only one who has never stopped hoping. He has hoped for Goku and because of his trust he has reassured Chichi as well; he has hoped for Gohan, for Tien, for Kuririn and finally for other characters that we will analyze in the last chapter.

In short, Yamcha is the bearer of hope in the present. He is the one who kept it alive so that the world would not fall apart as it did in the future. Yamcha is hope itself. So... If hope is absolutely indispensable in Trunks' horrendous future, why shouldn't we think Yamcha is indispensable for Dragon Ball?

Well, thank you for getting here.

See you for the last chapter: The Future.

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duhragonball · 6 months

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What do you think of the Saiyan's overall redesign in the DBS Broly Movie? Personally, I didn't like how they really stuck to that, "All Saiyans have black hair," thing. I thought the original King Vegeta and Saiyans surrounding him looked more interesting in DBZ. They even had a blonde guy when KV blew up those planets lmao (if only they knew)

I know the guy your talking about. He's from the flashback montage right before Vegeta dies.

Of course, his pal over there is rocking an SSJ4 Gingergeta look too, so this shot is pretty wild for a bunch of reasons. And then King Vegeta raises his hand and blows up three planets, including the one they're standing on, so I don't know what to make of that.

Anyway, as far as the hair color goes, the black-hair-only rule came from the scene where Vegeta disputes Trunks' claim to be a Saiyan, so the rule didn't exist back when DBZ Episode 86 was made. We can still interpret this in a few ways.

Vegeta was just stone cold wrong. I say this a lot, but it bears repeating: Most of what we know about Saiyans comes from Vegeta, but he's not an infallible source. There's bound to be things he doesn't know or couldn't know, and he probably still clings to a lot of propaganda fed to him in his youth.

The flashbacks aren't meant to be taken literally, and this could just be a coloring error in an otherwise consistent portrayal of the Saiyans.

The blonde guy could be a half-Saiyan like Trunks.

The blonde guy just likes to bleache his hair.

He's got some kind of medical condition that discolors his hair

Nonetheless, once Toriyama laid down the black hair rule, it appears to have been followed pretty closely, except...

Nion, one of the scientists in the nursery in DBS: Broly, has dark blue hair. Maybe indigo? You get the idea. I don't think this is a trick of the light, either, since King Vegeta's in this scene, and his hair looks black. Nion clearly has a different hair color.

At first, I wondered if this meant she wasn't a Saiyan. Nion doesn't appear to have a tail either, and her uniform is too form-fitting for her to stuff it inside her clothes like her robed co-workers. But by all accounts, she seems to be a Saiyan character, and it makes sense. She speaks rather hopefully of Broly possibly becoming the next Super Saiyan, and one of Frieza's bootlicks wouldn't be nearly so enthusiastic when speaking of such a thing.

So what's up with Nion? Well, it's probably the same story as that blonde guy from DBZ 86. She colors her hair, or she's got some alien ancestry, or maybe there's more to Saiyans than Vegeta knew. My guess is that the movie was trying to show that there's a particular fashion among Saiyan scientists. The men in this scene all had very short, more "conventional haircuts". They also wore long choir robes. Nion has a different look, but there's like nine other women in the nursery with the exact same style, suggesting that they all wear that look to signify their profession. So maybe the blue hair is part of that, or Nion picked it up while she was at space college or something.

So from a hair standpoint, I think they just kind of ended up back where they started. Pure-blooded Saiyans may all start with black hair, and most of them stay that way, but a few Saiyans seem to develop an interest in coloring their hair for cosmetic reasons.

No, the main change I noticed from the Broly movie was that most of the Saiyan uniforms we saw were black and/or blue, which is kind of a shame, because I liked the various colors used in DBZ. Bardock had his green and black armor, Fasha/Seripa had pink, Towa had Carolina Tarheel blue, and so on. The movie also did Paragus dirty, because Paragus looked like the fuckin' man in Movie 8, and his DBS looks were all a downgrade.

At least Gine got pink wristbands and sort of a dark teal outfit. That might be closer to green, but I can't tell. Anyway, I get it, they're uniforms. The whole point is that everyone looks the same. Still, I liked the idea that someone could requisition a hot pink and lime green armor and it was totally cool.

Ultimately, flashback scenes like these don't carry that much weight, since they're always susceptible to another retcon. One of these years, they'll do some "Andor"-style series about the Saiyan/Tuffle War, and we'll see a whole other depiction of Saiyans that will turn all of this on its ear, and I'll probably be coming up with some other rationale to make it all fit together.

Mostly, I'm just glad we got a peek into Saiyan culture beyond the front-line warriors in the DBZ flashbacks. Nion and her colleagues raise more questions than answers, but I'm still grateful for the questions. I think fans have postulated characters like Beetz and Gine for a long time, and the movie confirms that there was definitely more to Saiyan society than fighting.

#ask duhragonball #saiyans #gine #nion #bardock #vegeta #king vegeta #nappa

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sweetescapeartist · 7 months

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My Examination of MasakoX's "Android 18 Made Me SO MAD [ RANT]" Video

youtube

A very good video. Only issues I have is that he (& maybe others) mention scenes from the DBS anime continuity, then talk about the DBS manga continuity as if they connect. They do not. Here are 3 main points I want to address...

MasakoX skipped over the fact that the manga version has always been insulting Krillin & K18. Anime had Ribrianne insult Krillin's appearance and 18's love for Krillin, then 18 proved Ribrianne wrong (& the K18 haters Ribrianne represents) by kicking her butt with the power of love. The manga events have Ribrianne give Krillin backhanded compliments, 18 doesn't defend him, no power of love. All done by Toyotaro just to insult Krillin.

MasakoX misremembers GT (as many do). That one scene where 18 cries over Krillin? Thats nice and all when out of context. In full context, GT 18 (& GT Marron) treated Krillin bad in almost every scene they were in up until that point. Krillin dying after that was more so 18 feeling regret for how bad she treated him.

MakasoX says it is Toyotaro AND Toriyama's fault. In a way it is. But its Toriyama's fault due to him not being very involved in the DBS manga. Toriyama is more involved with the DBS anime while he is mostly hands off with the DBS manga. HOWEVER, Toriyama tried to correct the Ribrianne insult that Toyotaro put in the manga. (The link mentioned previously) The truth is that Toyotaro is a Krillin hater (as MasakoX eluded to). Toyotaro is to blame for the constant mischaractization of Krillin & 18. And Toyotaro being a GT fanboy is the reason for this. GT 18 contradicts what Toriyama wrote in the original manga and what we see in the DBS anime continuity. Toyotaro's innacurate charactization of 18 & Krillin reflects the GT version's innacurate charactization.

So with full understanding...

Toriyama is rarely involved in the DBS manga continuity.

Folks need to remember to point out the continuity differences between the DBS anime & DBS manga.

Toyotaro (a GT fanboy) is a Krillin hater who sabotages Krillin's characterization as well as mischaracterizing 18, making 18 more in line with her out-of-character DBGT counterpart.

Toyotaro has mischaracterized Krillin & called him weak, cowardly, hideous, & now a cheater. And Toyo has innacurately depicted Krillin as weak, unskilled, & cowardly.

For some reason, MasakoX and others refrain to put most if not all blame on Toyotaro. Maybe its because they lack a little information (not an insult to them) or because they know they have DBS manga fans & Toyotaro fans in particular who are subscribed to them so they dont place the blame on Toyo as much? One of the two or a bit of both possibly.

Regardless, good video. If MasakoX was more informed about certain GT scenes & differentiated the DBS anime & manga continuities, it would have been a great video.

Also, I DO NOT hate MasakoX or Geekdom101 or some others. I give constructive criticism which means I point out the problem and offer a solution. If I offered no solution, I would simply be a hater. That's not in my nature. But other content creators who hate on Krillin and blatantly lie then try to cover themselves when I present undeniable evidence that they are lying? I don't hate them either. I just feel nothing for them. Hating is an emotion and shows interest in a person. I have no interest in those people. They are nothing to me. Even less than an gnat.

EXTRA:

Krillin is a pervert who suppresses his desires. So, 18 suspecting Krillin of wanting to cheat makes some sense. Gotta remember that Krillin called Videl cute (twice) & 18 gave him a look.

18 just doesn't want her perverted husband looking anywhere else when she & her infinite energy can provide him whatever he desires. Would Krillin cheat? No. He is a character that is very loyal to not only his friends but his wife too. Plus if he did, 18 would kick his butt. Another reason why he wouldn't is because 18 has insecurities & traumas. Krillin wouldn't want to hurt her in any sort of way. But with how Toyotaro hates Krillin... yeah. That was to make it seem like DBS manga Krillin has another negative attribute about him.

I'm sure some of y'all have watched videos about how the Japanese culture views cheating & how men often cheat or go to a prostitute. With that in mind, 18 hearing Krillin talking to a woman references Japanese culture. But it's just weird that 18 didn't know Sergeant Nutz was his boss after he had worked under her for at the very least half a year. As most things Toyotaro does, it's written without much thought for a wack joke & doesn't make sense.

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mdhwrites · 10 months

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Why the Name Belos?

So this isn’t entirely criticism with some research and more of a showers thought sort of thing but it started with me realizing that Belos could have foreshadowed something... And didn’t. I’ll reveal it after getting into what his name actually means.

So Philip genuinely is just a basic bitch, English name. It means Friend of Horses which we never see anything of. Wittebane is actually obvious if you think about it as yes, it does in fact translate either to ‘White Tormentor” or to “Witch tormentor” if the Wiki is right at least. That’s pretty standard and the like so *shrug*.

But then there’s Belos. The name he gave himself. Now there are three ways to interpret it. One that theoretically takes into account his background, one that fits the same way Wittebane does and one that I think fits both and is a lot more sly. First: Belos is from the New Testament to mean “Javelin, Dart, Arrow, a missile”. This is why it’s more just “This does fit for his background as a religious extremist but not really for deeper meaning.” He isn’t very direct or targeted in his methods after all. This meaning would be a lot better if he were a specter, assassin, or just did a lot more of his dirty work himself to reflect the single purpose and single target drive of the items it correlates to. One could claim he has the singular purpose but even that isn’t just about murdering witches as he does reveal his goal is as much about titles and fame that it will gain him back home or else he wouldn’t care when Luz gets the title wrong. Also he’s just really bad at his goal so that also hurts the case.

The one the wiki states and that a name definer relates it to is an Ancient Greek term for Lord or Ruler. It’s like when Toriyama named the god of his world Kami. It does work, even if bluntly (though I’ve used the same sort of trick to inspire names I’ve used before) and it is imposing and it fits his egotism. Kind of my only real issue is that while he does become the emperor... His goal isn’t conquest. It’s murder. Worse yet, it’s not like the people of the Isles would know what it meant so it means nothing to them and doesn’t have a double meaning except for making title “Lord Lord” and Belos doesn’t seem like the one to want his name to be a literal joke. Why not make it a sly warning then? Have the people call him what would eventually doom them all?

So here’s the third way: Phonetically what it sounds like. Belos is pronounced effectively the same way as Bellows. You know, those things you use to strengthen and stoke a fire in a furnace. Or a pyre perhaps? And this was the shower thought: Why wasn’t Belos’ big final move fire? It is his backstory that he is a WITCH HUNTER. Witches weren’t just shot or the like on the spot. They were burned. Or stoned admittedly I believe but famously they were mostly burned.

Why not burn away the Isles, with his power, influence, etc. like that as the bellows that helped stoke the fire that saw it all burn away? If you want to go more metaphorically, why not fuel the flames of rebellion? He clearly didn’t have the most amount of control over his lands despite being a tyrant, or told to us to be one since his actions don’t actually correlate with one, so he could have been trying to make a rebellion happen. Killing Eda, the most famous wild witch, and petrifying her could do both. Solidify the terror in believer’s hearts while also enraging those who believed this was too far.

Of course that would have required everyone rallying to Eda to actually make... sense at the end of S1? Like this isn’t a desire that’s unfounded due to S1′s finale very much so feeling like it’s setting up for the entirety of the Isles to rebel against Belos when that never happens. Of course, the claims even in the show are pretty fucking weak. Like for this crime to be unjust, Eda would have to not be a know, actual criminal who did do more, at least supposedly, than just being a wild witch. She would have actually had to have had allies and friends and not been a complete bitch to literally everyone she met, including Luz and King for the first half of the season, for the entirety of S1.

Again, as far as the name goes, it’s fine. Belos works as just being a cheeky reference to him being the Lord of the Isles and it fits the general naming scheme of TOH. King is literally a King of sorts. Luz was at the beginning the light of the show and looked like she was meant to bring light to a dark place which... Yeah, that’s a different blog. Amity is amicable (as well as maybe Amityville?) very quickly and that closeness feeds into her being the love interest. Even Willow is named after a tree that is known to look sad and pathetic while being actually really strong.

It’s just interesting to me that a witch hunter’s name coincidentally also sounds like something that helps fuel fires. You’d think that’d be on purpose or someone might have noticed, though admittedly I didn’t until today so *shrug*. Again, not the biggest deal in the world, just kind of started making my brain buzz a bit.

=========

I have a public Discord for any and all who want to join!

I also have an Amazon page for all of my original works in various forms of character focused romances from cute, teenage romance to erotica series of my past. I have an Ao3 for my fanfiction projects as well if that catches your fancy instead, If you want to hang out with me, I stream from time to time and love to chat with chat.

And finally a Twitter you can follow too!

#the owl house criticism #TOH Critical #toh belos

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chaossilvertale · 7 months

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Oh Gohan...Sweet sweet Gohan...I fucking adore ya, but at this point I feel like things need to change

Hello, and this is chaossilvertale bringing you a question "What if Gohan stayed as the main character?" But not in the way you'd expect because I'm not exactly going the usual route of Gohan liking fighting or Gohans' entire personality changing, no that's a insult and utter betrayal of his character, what I'm doing is a little more...I dunno, meta I suppose, you see Toriyama originally wanted to end dragon ball at the cell saga and basically leave whatever happened next up to fan interpretation but because of money the studio had him make more chapters of the manga which he was going to reluctantly do with Gohan as the protagonist because that made the most sense but he did run into the issue of Gohan being a reactive character and not a active one, while Goku came to his own conclusions and did his own thing acting and not only reacting Gohan has kind of...Only ever reacted, he's been a reactive character so Toriyama didn't know how to write that as a main character, which is understandable and explains why Gohan wasn't made as the main character and he switched back to Goku, so inorder for Gohan to be the main character and take charge, but here's the thing, Gohan aren't souily acting nor reactive characters they do both, at least there's some evidence of Gohan being active sense he chooses to fight crime as the golden warrior then again as the great Saiyaman...Oh speaking of which:

The Great Saiyaman is brilliant because, as opposed to what people think, people saying it's terrible and that Gohan should just be a bad ass...I'm going to tell you right now, they are 100% completely entirely wrong and I am keeping the great Saiyaman for this semi fanfiction rewrite of dragon ball, why? Because it shows whi Gohan is inside, sure on the outside he's a nerd with no social skills and deep down he's a trauma induced anxiety filled being of power who could whipe out the planet in an instant...But he's also a goofball, he has layers, complexity, deep down he's a fun loving guy who just wants to be happy, he saves the people of Satan city as this hero who seems like a absolute disrespect to the character of Gohan but who in reality is the PERFECT love letter to this character, because it shows that despite the ptsd, being kidnapped by raditz, then piccolo, then going to Namek and being beaten to near death he's still son Gohan, he's still someone with a personality, despite fighting to basically death against cell he is STILL that son Gohan, he's still a hero with a goal to protect people and keep the promise he made to his father in protecting the earth even if he doesn't train, which I'll be the first to admit I didn't like, I thought and still think he should've trained, and no it's not because Chichi didn't let him. What happened was Gohan growing an absolute hatred for fighting over the years, associating it with nothing but evil and as a path where millions go to die, and he's experienced it first hand, Gohan doesn't dislike training or fighting. He despises it with every inch of his being even though he knows it's necessary for the world to live on, Gohan chose not to train, not just because of that, but also because he thought without a shadow of a doubt that he was the strongest ever, but...That's not true, Buu exists, Beerus, Broly, all of them they surpass him and he hasn't learned to just start training because...Well he's a family man, he's a man who loves and cares for the world, he'll go out of his way to fight, out of his way to save the world, but if you really look at the series he's drawn the conclusion that he doesn't need to that Goku and Vegeta will just be there to clean up the mess!...Not here. Gohan son Gohan, the first child of son Goku, needs a push, just one push, it's clear with the great Saiyaman he's willing to fight, he just needs to realize that he needs to train to get stronger to be able to protect everyone because one day he may not be able to if he doesn't! He just needs one moment...Or maybe... a few very strategic moments, put perfectly in place in order for him to learn that he's not the strongest and the only answer is training... But that's not going to be Buu.

Yes, dear reader, this is the point where I bamboozle you because Gohan not being the main character isn't the only gripe I have with dragon ball. It's also the Buu saga, GT, and Super over all, because granted, they're fine, the Buu saga is the best out of all of them but it's clear that things are...Chaotic. and they shouldn't be, so much so that I've decided to kind of...Give my own interpretation of the events of the series, taking the original Z movies making them 100% cannon(with some liberties mind you) giving new arcs which lead up to the Buu saga and taking elements from GT and Super such as the gods of destruction, the tuffel saiyan war, baby, shadow dragons, the angels, the multiverse, realms between life and the after life, super saiyan four, Xenoverse, and even other fan projects in order to make a diffrent tale to the original dragon ball and make things...I don't wanna say better, but diffrent to the point where I like it, and what should this series be called?...Well just dragon ball Z, why? Well, as we all know, only the anime was called Z, and that was to basically say it's the end of the series and all of that, but the manga? Oh, it wasn't ever called that which means that this new adventure, well seeing as its meant to be the end of this massive tale...I figure Z works best, or maybe I could call it something like dragon ball XYZ idk, I originally wanted to call it dragon ball Nexus but that only pertains to one arc which...Well would be dumb to name the whole thing after that so what do you think? Seriously, I want to know your thoughts because I do have some very big yet small things planned out. For now, dear viewer, I leave you with an... Small glimpse at what's to come in this very fanfictiony tale

In the darkness of space lies nothing...Absolutely nothing... Not even the slightest movement... but we zoom in to see... There is something a small...Rock of some kind floating in the middle of space...for a second nothing... Then we see an image flash unto the screen, a picture of a green almost insectoid like human staring in shock at what could only be described as a flash of golden light with an outline of a boy whos hair spiked out to a ridiculous degree, then only there for a second it disappears replaced by a different image, but it's clearly seen unlike the previous one, a warrior in purple garbs yelling at the top of his lungs covered in bruises and cuts, a firey golden aura surrounding him. He's surrounded by several beings, some with blue skin and red hair, those who weren't knocked out, save for him who sparked with pure fury... When the screen shifted back to the rock, it did nothing... For several moments before, almost like a heart it beated. As it did, the screen cuts to black, pure darkness... Then, a red flame appears in the center of that darkness, which slowly grows into the shape of what looks like a closed eye... It opens, revealing a yellow slitted eye which merely stares at the screen...breathing...Then out of the darkness came a toothy grin of yellow teeth, it slowly began to laugh a twisted cynical laugh as the darkness seemed to crack around it with before shattering entirely reveling what could only be described as a world of ice, fire, and lightning before the screen faded to black once more before the words "Energy...Pure...Feed." appeared on the screen, they disappeared, and the episode ended.

Hope you all enjoy this concept! Now, if you wouldn't mind telling me what you think, I'd love to hear what yall have in mind! And seriously I...Really do need a name, so if someone could give me one, that'd be appreciated!

#dragon ball #dragon ball z #dragon ball super #dragon ball gt #dragon ball fanfiction #son gohan #rewrite #chichi #son goku

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