#umineko analysis

[evangelifloss]

I feel like Maria Ushiromiya is Umineko's litmus test for not only your general empathy towards children (because let's be honest, society doesn't regard kids as people deserving of respect) but also your reading comprehension and how far you've gotten into Umineko.

Anime onlies even from episode 1 have always notoriously applauded Rosa beating Maria for exhibiting "abnormal" or "annoying" behaviours and there's SO many meme gifs of a 9 year old being slapped (Rose garden scene). And even when they reach the adaption of Maria's backstory arc, you'll always see people yet again claiming "She deserved it" or that Rosa was valid. These types of people generally dont believe in a child's autonomy, nor have empathy if that child is in some way irritating.

And for those that completely changed their mind and realised that Maria was actually someone that was a victim, they too aren't excused from their previous opinions of how Rosa treats her daughter. They still thought that since Maria was annoying, she deserved to be verbally and physically assaulted.

However when you talk to Umineko readers, you find that "population" of Maria haters remains niche or in consistent decline. This only becomes further cemented through the backstory arc in the novel (which imo was done far better than the anime), but this is also where the reading comprehension comes in.

Alot of the time, readers miss the point of Ryukishi's writing concerning Maria and settle on the idea that there's some sort of "grey area" regarding Rosa's treatment of her daughter. The novel explicitly explains that what she does is abhorrent and that it ISNT a morally grey subject matter.

I will also acknowledge that Ryukishi also explores Rosa's problems and perspectives too, of her own trauma that leads into the abuse of Maria, but never once does the narrative seek to excuse it or paint the situation as something other than truly cruel. It is a perfect expression of the cycle of abuse within families and as difficult it is to read/watch Rosa internally struggle with her guilt over her violence, she never actually changes her behavior.

If you cannot at least empathise with Maria, how on earth will you be able to understand the struggles of Beatrice, and the meaning behind the narrative itself?

#maria ushiromiya #rosa ushiromiya #umineko spoilers #umineko #when the seagulls cry #umineko when they cry #ryukishi07 #maria umineko #umineko meta #meta #umineko analysis #umineko anime #when they cry #beatrice ushiromiya #golden witch beatrice #beatrice umineko

[selenestarmoon]

Between Magic and Mirrors

Would you believe me if I told you that this character

is like this

and this?

While I watched Neo in RWBY, I couldn't help but notice the similarities she has to Umineko's Beatrice and Bleach's Sosuke Aizen and I'll explain all of these in more detail here:

NEOPOLITAN AND BEATRICE - IMAGINATION, MAGIC AND ESCAPISM

Beatrice is a character of Umineko who is known to be the Golden Witch but her true identity is Sayo Yasuda, Kinzo's illegitimate daughter born by incest who after Natsuhi accidentally pushed the servant who was holding Sayo causing Sayo to lose her private parts, being saved by Genji and Kumasawa who raise her in secret to avoid another incestuous episode by Kinzo. This caused Sayo to have insecurities about herself and her own gender and to make matters worse the other maids start to pester her for her clumsiness in her work as a maid and her only friend was Kumasawa with whom she develops a love for mystery stories and magic in general. Sayo was unhappy and always alone so she started creating imaginary friends to make up for her loneliness and because of her love for magic she created Proto Beatrice (later know as Gaap) to explain her own clumsiness and later creates Shannon persona, the perfect servant girl. Sayo's imagination becomes her refuge but also her prison because it gave relief to her loneliness and made her feel good about herself but in turn this isolated her from others. Later she meets Battler and for the first time she doesn't feel lonely for long but due to her loneliness she trusts Battler too much to the point that she takes seriously Battler's promise that he would come back for her but when he doesn't come back which makes Sayo feel betrayed but to make matters worse she discovers her true identity as Kinzo's illegitimate daughter, she goes mad, takes Beatrice persona as her own and think that she's a real witch.

Later Sayo causes Rokenjima incident as a way to get revenge on the family that hurt her and especially Battler for leaving her alone but in turn she feels bad for everything she has done and chooses to commit suicide by drowning in the sea.

In the meta world Beatrice plays the killing games with Battler so that he knows that the reason for the Rokenjima incident is so that he would remember the promise he made to her when she was Sayo.

Do you know who more was born in a rich and toxic family that hurt her for her disability, used her imagination as a form of freedom and escapism and ended up loving a man just so that when that man disappears she goes mad and seeks revenge as a result?

Beatrice and Neo are adults who act like children so they lash out at others but they don't take responsibility for their actions nor do they realize how their actions hurt others, they only care about their own pain. This is even seen when Sayo and Trivia create their imaginary friends (Gaap or Proto Beatrice and Pink Neopolitan) not only to feel accompanied but also to blame them for their mistakes.

Beatrice's actions led to the terrible situation that Eva was forced to live in as the sole survivor of her family and having to deal with the media accusation that she killed everyone on the island when in fact Eva was suffering for the loss of her husband Hideyoshi and her son George and the rejection of Ange and Ange herself had to endure being bullied at school for being the daughter of Rudolf and Kyrie, alleged murderers of Rokenjima, and also in her desire for her parents to return, rejected Eva believing that her parents and brother would come back for her. Battler was also hurt by Beatrice's actions because by trying to follow her and stay with her in her death, he survives but doesn't remember anything and is found by Ikuko Hachiyo who he marries and is tormented by memories that come to him through nightmares. Neo for her part wants revenge against Cinder but she is manipulated for her to help her and unload her anger against Ruby which makes Neo help Cinder to destroy an entire kingdom without mentioning that her actions are indirectly helping Salem to destroy the world because Salem's plan is to make the world a chaotic place so that when the Brother Gods are summoned they will destroy the world as a result of the chaos that exists.

Another thing that both have in common is their powers and how both are based on the manipulation of reality through imagination to some extent. Beatrice is a witch whose powers basically consist of making what she imagines come true, forcing reality to make what she believes to be real be real because Sayo, her true identity, dealt with loneliness through her imagination. The above can be seen from the fact that she didn't ask to revive Sakutaro because she believed that Rosa denied it but Angel revives him simply because she believed that Sakutaro was alive by having a spare stuffed animal.

Neo's semblance allows her to manifest whatever she imagines into reality in illusions made of glass that everyone can see.

Both powers force reality to operate under the rules of Beatrice and Neo and even said powers are enhanced in places linked to the imagination (the Golden Land is a kingdom created by Beatrice where everything she thinks comes true and Neo is in Ever After, a magical place where it reflects the psyche of the characters and therefore also reflects the imagination). Beatrice's golden magic and Neo's semblance are perfect powers for a lonely and imaginative child and for deadly assassins, imagination is a double-edged sword because although Beatrice and Neo deal with their loneliness with their imagination (they create imaginary friends) and it gives them the freedom they feel they don't have with their original identities (Beatrice - Sayo Yasuda, Neopolitan - Trivia Vanille) in turn they get stuck in their own heads who just can't accept reality and instead look for reality to be as they want or believe it should be.

Beatrice and Neo are witches, Beatrice, as I said before, is the Golden Witch and Neopolitan is based on Trivia, the Roman goddess of witchcraft and there is something interesting about the concept of a witch in Umineko which is that a person becomes a witch by feeling rejection of their reality but they puts aside their humanity and their ties to other people and this also applies in RWBY: Sayo couldn't stand her life as a human and took the identity of Beatrice to feel free and take revenge and in the end she ends up in the Golden Land and in RWBY while team RWBY looks to get out of Ever After and Jaune can't get out until he gets help, Neo seems rather comfortable in Ever After and may even want to stay there.

Beatrice dies in real life not accepting the blame for her actions and ends up alone in the Golden Land until the end of Umineko where Battler finally reunites with her and Neo is running the risk of ending up just like Beatrice: ending up as a lonely witch in an imaginary world.

NEOPOLITAN AND SOSUKE AIZEN - LIVING MIRRORS

If there is something we know about Neo, it is how she is essentially a living mirror, not only because she creates illusions made of glass that everyone can see, but also because she is a mirror for the characters, especially for Ruby, but they know that another character curiously share these same traits with Neo?

Sosuke Aizen is a character from Bleach and one of the main antagonists of the manga. Not only does he share some physical similarities with Neo, but his powers are illusions visible to all who have seen his Shikai's activation and something curious is that Neo's and Aizen's illusions are made of glass.

Glass is an element that in fiction represents fragility, which gives us clues that Aizen and Neo's senses of identity are as fragile as glass itself: Aizen's identity is fragile because it is only based on what he can do (his intellect and his powers) to the point that he feels that morality does not apply to him, he feels that only he can change and rule the Soul Society and Ichigo even speculates that the reason Aizen wanted to conquer Soul Society was because of his desire for an equal, that his extreme power and intelligence only served to isolate him from the moment he was born (this can be seen in his effort to strengthen Ichigo as well as his respect for Kisuke Urahara stems from seeing them as equals) and Neo feels oppressed by her own family for not accepting her because of her disability and she unconsciously feels that no one is going to accept her and takes refuge in her idealized identity (Neopolitan) where she is powerful and free to do what she wants without being nobody oppresses her but she defines herself only by her bond with Roman (after their relationship goes from transactional to something genuine, Roman is the only one who respects her and wants her) and her life as a criminal that gives her freedom makes her dependent on Roman and unable to form bonds with others. Aizen and Neo were born with physical and/or mental conditions (Aizen - high intellect and enormous spiritual pressure and Neo - muteness and her semblance) that made them feel different from others, which caused their actions and their identity to be based on said conditions to the point that their powers they serve to reflect that sense of self that both have of themselves: sharp but fragile.

Aizen and Neo not only have a glass motif because of their fragile sense of self but also because they are mirrors that reflect the characters.

Aizen is a reflects that reflects Kisuke, Toshiro, Starrk and even Ichigo himself:

Aizen reflects Kisuke because they are both renowned geniuses for their great intellect and even looking to create something new just because they could just because Kisuke has moral boundaries that he dares not cross and Aizen just doesn't care about morals.

Aizen reflects Toshiro in the sense that they were both born prodigies having extremely enormous power and were ostracized because of it but Toshiro didn't let their power define him as a person but saw it as a part of himself and he managed to bond with the others while Aizen saw his power and intellect as his complete identity, which made him unable to have a bond with anyone.

Aizen reflects Starrk because they are both extremely powerful beings but this distanced them from each other because the others were weaker than them, making both wish they were weak in order to bond with others or meet people who were as strong as them or mlre. Starrk created Lilinette and found people (including Aizen himself) for him to be with without being overwhelmed by his power, relieving his loneliness while Aizen is unable to bond with anyone because he finds no one he considers an equal or that they are powerful enough that they are able to withstand his own power.

Aizen reflects Ichigo because they are both extremely powerful but both just want to be normal, the difference is that Ichigo knows that this is his wish, he expresses it openly and in the end lives a normal life with his family while Aizen does not recognize or realize it of that desire and seeks to be superior to others.

Neo is also a mirror that reflects other characters, in her case, Team RWBY and Jaune:

Neo reflects Ruby in that they both deal incorrectly with the loss of a loved one, refuse to examine themselves so they can't face said loss, and dress like said loved ones (Ruby wears clothing resembling the ones her mother Summer wore and Neo wears Roman's hat and gray cloth) to feel close to them and/or to feel that they are still alive in some way. Ruby suppresses everything she feels and decides to move on and Neo gets carried away by her emotions to the point that she doesn't care if she and others get hurt.

Neo reflects Weiss in the sense that they both grew up in a rich but toxic family and wanted to be free but Weiss grows as a person because she had the support of Winter and then she has the positive support of RWBY which allows when Weiss goes down in Ever After After losing her father and her home, she doesn't lash out at anyone but rather seeks to leave the place while Neo has no personal growth because she did not know anyone, she loses her parents who oppressed her and Roman is left, who does love her but his support it's not positive and when she loses him Neo gets angry and lashes out at others and doesn't seem to be concerned about staying in Ever After.

Neo reflects Blake because they were both born with conditions that make them different from the others (Blake is a Faunos and Neo is mute) and they were strongly discriminated for it and they both get together with a man (Adam and Roman) who lead them astray but they stay with them for accepting them only Adam becomes more and more violent and Blake leaves him to have a better life and manages to have healthy relationships with other people while Neo stays with Roman and she doesn't form bonds with other people and Roman, unlike Adam with Blake, he truly respects and loves Neo but being a criminal he led her down that same path and when Neo loses him she has no one else.

Neo reflects Yang in the sense that they are both proud of who they are and violently attack all those who hurt their loved ones and don't think about the consequences of their actions. The difference is that Yang learns that she shouldn't live and show only her idealized self but must accept that her vulnerability is a part of her identity and that she shouldn't reject it and she also learns that violence is not the answer to everything but has to to think things through before doing them and pay attention to the big picture while Neo clings to her idealized identity but puts aside his share of Trivia (her vulnerability) and Neo in her eagerness to lash out without thinking doesn't think about her actions which makes her easy for Cinder to manipulate neither does she think that what happened to Roman was partly his own fault and partly just a circunstance that could have happened at any time nor does she think about the bigger picture and how their actions affect that big picture.

Neo reflects Jaune in the sense that they were both seeking revenge for the death of a loved one (Pyrrha and Roman) at the hands of Cinder (only Roman didn't die directly for Cinder but he die by agreeing to do her plan) because they have no idea how to deal with the pain of losing a loved one and in turn cling to an idealized identity that gives them a sense of purpose (Jaune as a knight and Neo in his current Neopolitan identity). Jaune tries to take revenge on Cinder but everything goes wrong until he discovers his semblance and saves Weiss and puts aside his revenge, later in Atlas he learns to improve his defense and embraces his identity as a knight until he is forced to kill Penny because she asks him and from what we has seen, Jaune will have to examine himself, accept Penny's death and also accept the fact that he hurt her in order to reconcile with himself and find a new purpose and grow as a person while that Neo tries to take revenge on Cinder but she manipulates her into helping her and attack Ruby, and later betrays her and Neo instead of examining herself and her purpose that has her current identity, she simply chooses to stay with her current purpose which is to continue attacking Ruby and probably against Cinder, doesn't accept Roman's death and she doesn't care if she or others get hurt because of her which makes Neo have no personal growth.

The fact that Aizen and Neo reflect the characters is so true that they can even literally become reflections of the characters as if they were mirrors. They reflect what the characters hide from themselves or what they can become if they give in to their flaws and even Aizen and Neo use their powers to confuse their enemies and turn them against themselves.

Like I said earlier, Neo, Beatrice and Aizen have powers that influence reality to make it whatever they want but they don't get what they really want. Basically their powers make them writers but they are writers who don't know write a story that they like, being writers of their own tragedy: Sayo ends everything and just wants to die, Aizen wants company but never realizes his wish and ends Sealed in the Muken and Neo can't accept Roman's death and lashes out at everything and everyone, leading to a bad ending for Beatrice and Aizen and Neo runs the risk of ending up having a bad ending like Beatrice and Aizen.

#rwby #rwby meta #rwby analysis #umineko no naku koro ni #umineko no naku koro ni meta #umineko no naku koro ni analysis #umineko #umineko meta #umineko analysis #bleach #bleach meta #bleach analysis #neopolitan #rwby neopolitan #neopolitan rwby #trivia vanille #beatrice umineko #umineko beatrice #beatrice #sayo yasuda #sosuke aizen #aizen sosuke

[ushiromiyacestcentral]

The parallels between Maria and Ange Ushiromiya

Maria primarily wears pink and red clothes while Ange’s outfits tend to have a bit of blue on them.

Both of their names have a holy origin, with Ange’s name likely being a shortening of Angel and Maria’s name coming from Jesus’s mother and plus she has a cross in her name kanji.

Maria genuinely believes in magic and witches while Ange is more reluctant about it at first

The differences in personality: Maria is more energetic cheerful and enthusiastic even with the abuse she suffers by Rosa while Ange before the tragedy is happy yet skeptical of magic Ange after the tragedy Ange’s personality is the complete opposite of Maria’s.

Both of their witch forms are pretty OP

#Umineko #ange ushiromiya #maria ushiromiya #umineko spoilers #Umineko analysis

[liliennacht]

Lucilith in my Heart

#Hazbin Hotel #hazbin lucifer #Hazbin Lilith #Lucilith #Lucifer x Lilith #Yep #I dont think its gonna end well for my ship of four years #so im jist gonna get the brainrot out of my head and hope taht it goes away #gonna reread some of Lakesbians Alec Analysis #gonna reread some Umineko Livebligs #and hope i can survive

[succs]

Battler is the type of guy to go fishing and reel in an old dirty boot. Battler is the type of guy to see a murder scene and say “uhm…guys? you might wanna see this”. Battler is the type of guy to say “see you later alligator!”. Battler is the type of guy to have comical green stink lines and flies follow him when he doesn’t smell good. Battler is the type of guy to get excluded from a group activity and say “what am I? chopped liver?” Battler is the type of guy to have an anvil drop on his head and have a bunch of miniature birds fly around him while he has a dazed expression on his face.

#umi.txt #Umineko #just a character analysis from someone who hasn’t finished the series <3 lmk if this is an accurate reading <3

[ccatgiri]

Not to mix together two hyperfixations of mine that have literally nothing to do with one another but to me Sparrow is a very good character to analyze through the "without love, the truth cannot be seen" framework that Umineko presents. Your understanding of his actions and words is framed entirely by whether you feel love for his character or not, which might sound obvious but what I mean is that to understand his relationship with his children, especially Normal, it is necessary to keep the circumstances of Sparrow's own childhood in mind - only then can you see the full picture. This, however, implies a level of care and nuance that is probably only granted by those who already have an attachment to the character, and that's why some listeners have fallen into the belief that Sparrow didn't love Normal (at least, not as unconditionally as he could've) despite canon evidence pointing to the contrary. Without >taking the time to analyze Sparrow in-depth< (Love), >his real feelings for his children< (The Truth) cannot be seen.

And, ultimately, I think this is why Sparrow and Normal's relationship is unfixable from an in-universe perspective. Still (validly) stuck with the image of his father telling him he's not proud of him, Normal sees Sparrow's support of him as limited and conditional, which biases his perspective against him - in other words, Normal does not truly feel loved by him. In turn, and whether it's subconscious or not, this makes Normal perpetuate the vicious cycle by being unable to view his father through a lens of Love due to his resentment. He interprets Sparrow's words and actions in unfavorable manners because he, himself, is depriving them of nuance and context. Because of this, he will never be able to reach The Truth.

Umineko also proposes the idea that if someone believes in a lie too fervently, it stops being a lie and becomes The Truth. Sparrow and Normal cannot find connection because they now fundamentally exist in two different realities, each one with a different Truth. And The Truth for Normal now is, unfortunately, that it took risking his life multiple times and losing people important to him for his father to be proud.

#is this anything #meta #character analysis #dndads #normal oak #sparrow oak-garcia #sparrow oak #this is genuinely less of a dndads analysis and more me just admiring the framework umineko provided me to understand human relationships #as a neurodivergent who is very very bad at it #i feel like i kinda worded this as a pity party for sparrow but know i believe normal is 100% valid in feeling how he feels #posts that are made for me only bc the intersection between dndads fans and umi fans is literally Just Me probably #post so wordy you have to bring out the Proper Grammar as to not confuse the mooties

[sloshcore]

chapter 7 parallels, umineko and higurashi (spoilers for both!!)

this is just my personal opinion/rambling, i just finished playing chapter 7 of umineko a few days ago and i finished higurashi a while back, i hope i'm not misremembering anything

minagoroshi-hen ending with the truth being revealed about the culprit, the nature of hinamizawa syndrome, etc. and rika being left hopeless in the face of the best case scenario still ending in tragedy and failure for her vs lion and will being shown the truth of beatrice, rokkenjima prime, lion being fated to die at the hands of kyrie and rudolf, and being left hopeless in the face of the best case scenario still ending in tragedy for all interations of yasu is so !!!!

the biggest theme that is covered in both games imo is cycles/patterns, both literally in the time loop aspect and sociologically in how hinamizawa maintains its strong belief in oyashiro-sama/isolation of satoko and the ushiromiya family starting back from kinzo. ultimately the characters fight against these cycles and try to break out of them, and chapter 7 of both games highlights the crushing despair of having the outcome be failure regardless of how hopeful and great things were seeming. i'm not sure about umineko, but in higurashi rika puts her faith and hope into one more loop, and hanyuu's addition to the game board is what turns the tides and allows a miracle to occur. i'm really interested to see how this turns out in umineko, i'm holding off on chapter 8 because i don't want it to be over boo hoo

adding onto that, the way it's bernkastel presenting rokkenjima prime to lion and sending will on his little journey; bernkastel, the amalgamation of rika's looping and experiences of tragedy and loss in hinamizawa, is the one imposing the same feeling of despair and inevitable tragedy when she knows so well what that feels like!!! bernkastel as a whole is a character who is the result of trauma/tragedy and comes out bitter, cynical, and callous as a result of it. it's the same cycles!!! ryukishi!!! when i get you ryukishi!!!!

#higurashi no naku koro ni #umineko no naku koro ni #umineko #higurashi #higurashi spoilers #umineko spoilers #higurashi analysis #rika furude #bernkastel #lion ushiromiya #willard h wright

[nadekofannumber1]

Alignment chart for my personal gc on series where “monsters are manifestations of the human psyche” from real to fake (anime aligned because of consistency which is why something like American gods isn’t on here)

If one were to add things to the list to be brave about it you could simply do this

#monogatari series #analysis #monogatari analysis #umineko #csm #smt #shin megami tensei #plain text is in the alt text #utena #persona 4

[coluber-constrictor-foxii]

Thinking about parallels between Ushiromiya moms.

I never think about Kyrie, so I'll focus on parallels between Natsuhi and Eva here because i had this thought for a while. if you have something to add about Kyrie, be my guest.

I'm thinking about how they could've been allies very easily, but can't be because they still, to some degree, believe in patriarchy.

The root of their internal and external conflicts is sexism and patriarchy, Natsuhi was treated and targeted as property and literal trophy by Kinzo because she's a woman (her family had to kind of... sell her to Kinzo... to save the rest of the family...), she's not respected by Krause much because she's a woman, she struggled a lot with accepting Lion because she was taught and told that's she's a failure as woman for being unable to give birth.

And Eva wanted to be acknowledged by Kinzo/still wants to be a successor but not allowed that because she's a woman, she constantly was reminded by Krause that he's successor because he's first child and man, so no matter what Eva do she cannot win successor position and kinzo affection (if she wanted it at that point, it's complicated to me how much her desire for successor title stems from wanting to have power and being ambitious, or wanting to be approved by kinzo and genuinely thinking she could help the family).

Yeah, out of the context of their relationship, you could think that they really could bond over all of the suffering from sexism that they're endured, but no, actually they're not friends because patriarchy :(

Natsuhi upholds gender norms and trying to make Jessica behaving the way that just not comfortable for her. Throughout the series it's highlighted numerous times, that Natsuhi (and Krause) trying to make Jessica talk in feminine way. Eva still trying to get title of the Ushiromiya head, but at that moment not because "woman can be head of the family!" but rather "i deserve to be a head of the family even though I'm a woman". She internalised all sexist and misogynistic messages but her goal haven't changed. She belittle Natsuhi, Rosa, Shannon etc, using sexist insults, that she herself was victim, to harm other women. She trying to uphold herself by tearing other women down........#girboss

(Also worth noting here, Natsuhi being strict with Jessica partially because worrying that Eva make George steal Jessica's title, which like, Jessica don't want that title to begin with, but any way, it is worth to remember that that Natsuhi could've been much softer if she didn't feel pressure of Ushiromiya family title as a whole and Jessica's future responsibilities, and wasn't constantly attacked by Eva about Jessica's behaviour. Eva trying to actively force George to be a family successor for her own revenge, and i don't have much to say about it, except that she do want George to be happy, she just......very........confused.....)

They really work for me as parallels, Natsuhi's core reason and motivation for all her actions it's a wholehearted devotion to her family, which is very yamato nadeshiko (Japanese traditional wife), while Eva being copybook definition of girboss. Both outcomes of sexism, both born as the way to cope and make sense of it (patriarchy), and both clashes off eachother when met.

[ Girlboss is a neologism which denotes a woman "whose success is defined in opposition to the masculine business world in which she swims upstream". She's the confident and capable woman who is successful in her career, or the one who pursues her own ambitions, instead of working for others or otherwise settling in life. The term is conversely used with sarcastic and pejorative undertones, to denote women who attempt to raise their professional lives by practicing the same abusive and materialistic practices found in the patriarchal society. ] <- tell me this isn't Eva.

If you still reading this, thank you, and now i can finally write the reason why i started writing it, a little fun detail.

This page.

[Short id of the situation/ Natsuhi telling everyone to stay in the room, since she believes culprit is outside. Eva agrees, formulating it in a "it's better if we watch eachother in this room"way, because Eva believes culprit is inside this very room]

This. The way they drawn reminded me of Ange's line. I don't remember it word by word but something among the lines: "you can't see things with one eye, you need to look from different angles, form different perspectives. One eye is affirming, another judging, that way you can see the witch."

And it just further make me see them as parallels. Natsuhi is affirming, because she trusts the family and the servants to the last, she can no longer ignore the evidence when she has to protect Jessica, and even then she apologizes since part of her believes that they are innocent. Eva is judgmental because she's suspicious of literally everyone except for those she deems too weak to be a threat or a few trusted ones. It's the matter of trust/"love", Natsuhi trust/"love" quite everyone, which is easy to see in first game, when it obviously painful for Natsuhi to suspect them, at the same time, she trust family significantly more, and trust them literally to the moment she killed, even though she acknowledging that they're greedy and almost shot Eva. Eva, on other hand, default mode is distrust and suspicion, i can't even name any of times, there's too much of them.

My point: patriarchy sucks for everyone (women&men) and they portraying the different ways to live with that. Also, Natsuhi cool.

#umineko #Natsuhi Ushiromiya #eva ushiromiya #umineko spoilers #to some degree #idk if i can call it analysis #thoughts about umi #Natsuhi cool #that's all #that's all thoughts #coluber post

[rose-reads-visualnovels]

how do you get so good at analysis? ;_; i'm really dumb and take things at surface value, which i've been fine with up until now but seeing you read umineko so deeply makes me kinda like.... jealous isn't the right word? that sounds too spiteful. it just makes me feel like i'm missing out on a more fun way to experience things. but it seems so daunting i don't even know how to start. to me it seems like picking out every detail and exaggerating it as far as possible but it's obviously more refined than that because you're able to keep things together thematically and make some good theories. do you have any advice for it?

Hi, anon!

Don’t worry, I don’t think you’re being jealous/spiteful with this ask. I also used to want to write analysis on things because they seem fun, and actually this is my first proper try at it! I think I’ve said it before but if I’m not careful I’ll binge everything on first watch/read and miss details. (This is why I rewatch Utena every other month). So yes, I know sometimes I’m grasping at straws but that’s because I’m actively squeezing everything I can out of a page/scene.

I think what sets this liveblog apart and the reason I can pick up threads/themes is that Umineko seems very upfront about what it wants to say.

「MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE, EVERYONE WANTED A LOT OF MONEY RIGHT NOW…!」

Utena is the same in that - even though people say it’s too symbolic - I think the fact that it bares its inner mechanisms for all to see is a huge kindness. If everything means something else, or represents both itself and a larger concept, then a show where everything is allegorical is actually discarding layers of obfuscation.

I think a good place to start to Notice Themes is at the very beginning.

The Golden Witch invites you to take things easy and accept them as they come, but The Revolutionary Witch tells you that - in any story - the first introductions matter the most.

Up until now, Umineko has drilled inside our heads again and again, repetition after repetition, that the Ushiromiya’s Western schtick is a product of Kinzo’s reverse weeb affectations. He started many of the “traditions” that seem so inescapable, he invented the name for the fucking chair he sits at the breakfast table and the order of the seats according to his own patriarchal standards.

His Western obsession is tied very obviously with his “black magic” obsession and he even gets angry when you don’t call them “grimoires” because part of the charm of magic is that it’s foreign and cool. He speaks of black magic when ranting about his urges to sexually abuse a dead Beatrice, all his children speak of Western things when recalling their own childhood and abuse.

The only exception to this is Kinzo’s Japanese sword - both a true object and a phallic symbol that doesn’t deny itself its origins - that he uses to spank Jessica’s naked butt.

I feel like, in Umineko, you just need to sit and listen to the characters and wonder at their motivations. But you also need to wonder about the choice of presentation.

For example, Kanon alone in the garden after he left the conversation, being dismissed by Gohda. All he says is “…even me” or something among those lines, very mysterious! But the way this is presented, the camera not caring about the Cousins + Adults but following an actor after he’s being kicked out of the stage? Unusual! Curious! Very interesting! The way the narrative describes it, (paraphrasing here) “you needed to get closer if you wanted to hear the words whispered to his heart”? Why would it be written like that? Who is the narrator speaking to?

So I think - to make an analysis close in methodology to what I’m doing - you need to question what’s onscreen, not in a “this isn’t real” way (it may not be real but that’s not the focus!), but in a “why is this being shown the way it is” way. This is a novel after all. Choices of words, choices of POV, what is described and what’s left unsaid!

Those are the tips from the Revolutionary Witch!

— Rose, the Revolutionary Witch

#anon ask #askbox #umineko #rgu #revolutionary girl utena #on the matter of meta analysis

[goldenlandfiascos]

i've been thinking more and more lately about how i wonder if Natsuhi's actually a little bit autistic coded. probably not intentionally, but it definitely seems like she could be in a lot of ways. Maria's the more obvious example, but Natsuhi fits as well.

she has a hard time getting certain jokes & picking up on some social cues (like in EP1 with Battler trying to laugh about just eating all the time). she's very particular & gets really upset when things don't go according to plan, like with breakfast being delayed or whatever.

ep5 i think i remember her getting really frustrated and talking to herself like "why are there so many irregularities this year!?" She runs to her room a lot when overwhelmed to calm down where it's quiet and she can be alone.

on a more extreme example, during the cliff incident, i think i remember her talking about how "the baby's crying was so loud" or something, which on top of her already not being in a good state of mind at all during that part of her life, it definitely could be she got a bit of sensory overload from that. (insert obligatory comment here about how i'm not excusing her actions in doing it in the first place,,,)

i don't remember if she plays with her fingers or anything for stimming, but i did point out a little while back how in EP1 manga she does hold her arm a lot, like she's trying to find comfort with it. It's definitely just a nice little, subtle detail worth paying attention to.

Also worth noting is how her bio specifically mentions how the other adults "don’t understand her very well"

It just all seems very autistic coded to me even if it wasn't intentional (like with her also being very lesbian coded dfkjvnfdkj). Neurodivergent for sure if not specifically autistic.

also someone else pointed out to me how her various outbursts could also be a sign and very much fit the "autistic meltdown" idea. also she's really set to routine. it's just the more i think about it, the more it really makes sense, and i love her 💜

she doesn't really have a special interest, but even then, she's really obsessed with being a proper wife and the family crest and all that 😔

#umineko #umineko spoilers #natsuhi ushiromiya #natsuhi #crossposting this one from twitter because i've actually been quite attached to the idea of autistic natsuhi for a while now #i'm like 98% sure i'm somewhere on the spectrum too so i'm definitely speaking from personal experience and projecting dfkjvnfkd #and of course on that note a lot of the other characters could easily be read to be neurodivergent as well for sure #analysis #my posts

[evangelifloss]

For the ship bingo, Lambdabern!! <33

Lambdabern, or as I like to call them Berndadelta, is THE SHIP. It is so good. What is better than eldritch-like Witch Lesbians who travel between worlds causing genuine tragedies for the funnies? Not to mention they usually do these things to try and fuck eachother over. If Bern is trying to do something abhorrent for the fun of it, Lambda will certainly arrive out of absolutely nowhere, and join the opposite "team" just so that she can make Bern's life harder. And don't get it wrong, Bern does exactly the same shit too. Basically if one of them is having fun in a universe, it is guaranteed the other is not far behind. Maybe the fact that both of them are equally terrifying to fucken everyone (aside from Featherine) is because you're going to be dealing with two insanely powerful Witches instead of one.

PEAK ROMANCE RIGHT THERE. I love them. They are so dramatic for eachother, and the concept of I don't know, being fuckin' normal about their love is virtually impossible.

Clarification on the choices in chart

I ship them as divorced: These two are the definition of contradiction. They're separated, willingly, by the Endless Sea of Fragments but they always find one another yet every time they do, they are so incredibly petty towards eachother. It's indistinguishable from a bitter divorced couple forced into a social setting together and they are so intent on viciously attempting to make the other humiliated in some way. They come up with increasingly complicated schemes for the sheer sake of trying to make the other lose. At the same time, they remember EVERYTHING about eachother, every goddamn intimate detail. They seek one another out across an infinite time-scape to have fun. They promise to meet up again once the fun is over. They have a mutual desire to inflict torture upon the other. They cuddle in a posh bed and share candies. They love eachother so much that either one of them suffering is a reason to celebrate. I could go on.

They're going to be the death of me: Literally. Meeting either of them will just end with me dying horribly or suffering a fate worse than death. In another sense, reading their insane mind games to force one of them to lose is so entertaining that any time they're pulling out every stop and twist, and backstabbing, makes me so entertained that it's a Bit Much for my brain. I get a serious case of brainrot WHENEVER I remember or come across scenes of their simultaneous and dramatic treachery towards eachother. Plus the fan-art and content is too good sometimes.

They should stay as far away from eachother: Every single time they cross paths, shit goes down and everyone involved becomes severely Traumatized. Or any underlying/current trauma of the victims gets irrevocably intensified. Plus, the longer they are apart, the more extreme they become. It's almost as if they miss eachother and want to make up for lost time by finding new, torturous and downright machiavellian ways to cause pain. This is amazing LOL

People that ship them need therapy: Anyone who is invested in umineko and berndadelta needs to find help.

It's more funny than romantic: Oh it is definitely romantic, but holy shit their dynamic is hilarious and for Witches like Lambda and Bern, conventional romance isn't their thing. You could say that they are romantic, but in an incredibly fucked up way that humans cannot replicate nor grasp. You can understand it theoretically but that's pretty much it. I don't even think a serial killer who has an obsession towards their designated Special Person could keep up at all.

Relationship Goals: I may be unhinged but even I think whatever the hell is going on between Lambda and Bern is a bit fuckin much. It's more about the dedication, their sincerity and exclusivity. I cannot imagine either of them having anyone else be sufficient for their needs. Cheating is only on the table when it comes to playing games in other people's tragedies. I can say with certainty that Lambda wouldn't ever kiss another person in an expression of love. And I can say that there is no miracle which exists where Bernkastel would lower her guard towards anyone other than Lambda (outside of their games of course, her guard is up lest the lamb win and disgrace the glory of The Witch of Miracles, Lady Bernkastel. Lambda would never let her live it down.)

The Aesthetic is everything to me: Granted I'm not a fan of Blue and Red/other bright "opposite" color coded pairings, BUT that is because it's become an oversaturated trope in most media these days. When it comes to Lambda and Bern however, it fuckin slaps AND Umineko was written a fair while back where it wasn't AS common, so I guess you could say I'm a little biased. Aside from the color, their actual designs are not only perfect complements to their natures but are really well done and unique. It's pleasing to look at. Another factor of their aesthetic is their titles, or rather, what "domain" they rule over. A Witch of Miracles, who can find just about any possibility as long as its existence isn't 0, with the Witch of Certainty who grants a desired outcome based on the determination and effort of the individual is SUCH synchronicity I have no choice but to admire it... and also get extreme autism brainrot whenever I think about it.

If you've read this far, I'm sure that you're just as clinically insane as I am and for those of you who haven't played umineko, go do that. There are Witch Lesbians. Also murder.

Side note: thank you my love Roseofcards for the ask, this was such a banger to write. I also had to write it twice, because tumblr crashed. Don't ask me how long it took to write this reply in one session... let's just say, there's no movie night tonight.

#when they cry #umineko #umineko no naku koro ni #ryukishi07 #wtc #lambdadelta #bernkastel #lambdabern #lambdaxbern #long post #umineko analysis #when the seagulls cry #brainrot #evangelliasks #evangelliply

[revindicatedbyhistory]

what i think it´s interesting about the nanjo and kinzo dynamic is how nanjo seems to be the only one who gets the better side of kinzo? not even genji or any of his family members do that, just this fucking random doctor?

further spoiler thoughts under the cut

i mean yeah kinzo is like never actually present in most of these interactions but it´s the fact that it hppens recurringly makes me think it might be a reflection of their actual dynamic. either that or nanjo had a more positive view of kinzo than the rest of the inner circle, which is wild why did he think that

#umineko reread #i am here doing the first ever nanjo character analysis

[pochapal]

to question you on the detective side of the detective/fantasist (what you've called romantic in the past) approach to Umineko, have you considered how the locked room murders you've seen so far could have been constructed with the stakes of purgatory piercing the victims so severely? Hideyoshi being stabbed through the skull, for example, would have been quite difficult without resistance, and no other wounds were brought up on those bodies found with the stakes piercing them. You've talked about narrative conventions and how they relate to Umineko a little, and I'm curious if you think a who/how/whydunnit fair play mystery is what you're reading - and, whether it is or isn't, how much consideration you're giving to solving it as if it were.

from everything i've seen i'm pretty certain umineko is a solvable fair play mystery (the way the culprit(s) mete out the narrative illusion of beatrice inherently lends itself to an observer trying to solve it as seen with battler) and most "impossible" things are explainable if not completely solvable.

i think solution wise most things might have an "it was done in this way" answer rather than an "it was done with this specific object at this specific time at this specific place" answer because a layer of ambiguity is so baked into the core fabric of the narrative. as it pertains to the stakes and the locked rooms, i think it's a case where "the stakes were inserted into their heads" is the literal truth to what we're seeing, but we're also shown the context that makes such an action have a logical throughline.

in both the writeups i've done on the topic of the murders, my Detective's conclusion has been that there is a lot of misdirection and posthumous meddling involved in the construction of these crimes. for the "how" i'm pretty sure that the way that these murder methods seem impossible is due to the fact that an unseen object/tool was used and then removed from the scene in order to achieve the desired effect.

for the first twilight this is how i tackled the apparent impossibility of six people being simultaneously killed with their faces being torn to shreds. initially it seemed like some kind of gardening tool was used to mangle the corpses but i think later chapters make it clear that kinzo's gun was probably used to mess the faces up. in either case, i think the real misdirection is that the face destroying wasn't the cause of death since there's no way one person with one gun could get away with the first twilight so cleanly - there is no way to simultaneously murder half a dozen people, some of whom are in a vastly different location to the rest, in one go with one weapon. this is how i landed on the theory that the murder probably happened as a result of mass poisoning and maybe a light struggle - poison is a valid method as it was heavily foreshadowed by eva in a prior chapter, and some smaller struggle helps to explain some of the discrepancies with the bodies (namely the half face stuff on krauss and shannon). in this way, the actual killing is rather pedestrian and mundane, and the culprit(s) then have all the time they need to decorate the scene with an occult flair.

i think the same logic applies with eva and hideyoshi and the stakes. obviously there's no way for a physical culprit to a) enter a locked room and b) kill two adults by piercing both of them in the skull with a wooden stake. like you say what we're told is that the only wounds on the bodies are the holes in their heads, so we need to work backwards from the piercing. this has the same problem as the shooting of the other six victims in that there's no way to do a neat double kill so once more we're forced to discard it as a cause of death. the question then becomes a matter of how the piercing happened, and when it happened.

for the "how" we're immediately forced to rule out the gun being reused due to the fact that it's been in natsuhi's possession since the first twilight. obviously a wooden stake on its own is really not capable of carving through a human skull, so you need an object that could plausibly exist on rokkenjima other than the gun that could be used to put a hole in someone's head. the answer i landed on was that a likely candidate is something like a drill or a power tool kept in the storage room kanon and kumasawa retrieved the bolt cutters from - the tool is used to drill a hole in the skulls of the bodies wide and deep enough to fit the stakes in, and then said tool is taken away from the scene and hidden so any onlooker would only see the stakes. the way that the occult narrative illusion is being built almost definitely involves the servants in some capacity so places/objects most accessible to the servants are naturally worth considering as options for the "mundane" solution to the crime. plus, it works with the stuff i was saying about misdirection - we're told that kanon and kumasawa are in the store room to retrieve bolt cutters, but this doesn't actually prelude them from also doing something involving a drill or similar tool.

for the when, i think again it has to be posthumous. a locked room was indeed constructed from within and eva and hideyoshi did indeed die inside the locked room, meaning that decoration/tampering with the scene could only have happened after the room was unlocked. this gives us a window of those few minutes between kanon unlocking the door with the bolt cutters and the rest of the family entering the crime scene. it's a tight window, but just about plausibly enough time to immediately head in there and drill two holes in two corpses and promptly hide/obscure the tool that did it. it's very conspicuous that by the time that everybody sees the murder scene, it has ceased to be a locked room for some time, so there's no way you can say with any confidence that the piercing happened while the room was still locked. keeping all this in mind, the likely logical chain of events goes: eva and hideyoshi lock themselves in the room -> eva and hideyoshi die inside the locked room (my best bet for this is yet again poison; we're told there are no other external injuries so this is completely on the table as an option) -> kanon unlocks the room -> holes are drilled in their heads and the stakes inserted.

i think the fact that i'm able to reach such a compelling conclusion is indicative of the way that umineko is deliberately being constructed as a solvable mystery: i don't know that this is entirely the right answer, but the more important part is that i feel like as a reader i have a means of tackling nearly every question in some capacity using the story's own words as evidence to plug the gaps. the deeper stuff like the who/why isn't really clear to me yet beyond "servants are definitely involved in the narrative-building" since there's not a satisfactory answer to some of the more complicated and contradictory questions (such as why present this as an unsolvable impossible murder but also leave enough leeway for someone observant to not only be able to try to solve it but also want to try to solve it, and the myriad oddities with how "beatrice" as an entity is constructed), but i don't think this is a problem of the story denying that answer so much as it is that i've not yet read enough to have the right information to tackle it completely.

so yeah, in summation i think umineko is absolutely a fair play solvable mystery. the question of why it is like this, however, is something else that i hope becomes clear in time. there are a lot of elements that still need to coalesce and i am excited to eventually get to the point where things just begin to "click" on this front.

#fatesealyou #umineko #i think the trick is to take the Romantic truth as literal and then understand how to make it logically work through metaphor/substitution #umineko is a mystery designed to be solved through literary analysis and i'm not even joking that much when i say that lmao

[dolores-slay]

People insisting on 'kanon umineko is a lesbian' in a way that clearly doesn't make room for his identity being anything but 'girl experiencing comphet' is a biiiit annoying to me as a short weak and anemic looking genderqueer motherfucker cause you know people would not be saying this if he was taller/broader/had shorter hair and so on.

#i respect people finding utility in the idea of comphet but #SOMETIMES it just feels reductive when used in media analysis #kanon umineko #umineko #umineko spoilers

[happyfanofeverything]

reading umineko chapter 4

i’ll be honest, my attention span for thinking about the male umineko characters is like. zero. i’ve got nothing interesting to say about krauss or genji or ronove or whomever. kanon doesn’t count because she’s a trans girl and george doesn’t count because i uniquely hate his guts

#Umineko #Umineko liveblog #i try to come up with some analysis about krauss's position in the family and i just stop. im barely interested