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sandinmybed · 9 months

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big ramble about mike's love languages and how that relates to his relationships with will and el ahead!

its just occurred to me that in s3, during lucas and mike's little "how to apologise to a girl when you're gay and dont have any instincts in a straight relationship" crash course, the one thing mike did actually understand as relationship advice from lucas was "girls like presents." that's the thing he focused on the most, which was a great segue into a silly montage of lucas, mike and a very fed-up will running around the mall trying to buy gifts for the girls.

however, el doesn't give a damn about presents, not really. she doesn't really react to the flowers he gives her in s4 - she cares more about the note and what it says (and what it says does not please her.) el's love language appears to be words - she keeps mike's letters, and she's acutely aware of what they all say. she needs mike to *say* that he loves her - him showing how much he cares is not enough for el. so mike focusing on giving her presents was never going to work. his way of showing affection/love is not what she naturally recognises.

but yknow who does canonically like presents?

this boi.

continued under the cut because this got long:

the only advice mike's able to take from lucas' girlfriend apology training speedrun is the one that applies to him. mike's love language is receiving gifts. this isn't a "mike's so selfish" dunk post because hes literally thirteen and it makes sense to him that if he likes presents, el must like presents too. everyone likes presents, right? but it just further shows the disconnect between them. they can't recognise what the other person needs. (side note, el never gives him any presents or compliments him during the course of their relationship if i recall. mike isn't receiving love in a way he understands either.)

when mike fucks up with el, he needs a training course from lucas on how to fix it and he still doesn't understand what's going on (and lets not forget mike is smart as fuck, he should logically be able to work this out.) then, like four hours later chronologically, he fucks up with will. he visibly realises he's fucked up as soon as he says the infamous INMFYDLG line and without anyone telling him to, he travels miles in the pouring rain to fix it. notably, with words. will is also not interested in presents. mike isnt often (maybe ever?) shown giving him a present, but he gives will plenty of heartfelt words and verbally appreciates will. in season 4, he fights with will and el on the same day AGAIN, and what does he do? he brings el a plate of eggos, which she rejects by not touching them. they fight more, "a fight you can't come back from." and then later, his apology to will - he doesn't bring any gifts or peace offerings, he just calmly talks to him and apologises sincerely. and it works perfectly - they're back to sharing their feelings with each other and being best friends. the tension in their relationship is basically gone after that.

on a related note, let's look at what will and el do when they first see mike after a year, mike! six months. el plans a whole day together, doing all this crazy fun stuff like breakfast burritos and rollerskating, and mike goes with it but his response is noticeably a little confused. think about mike as a character - he's nerdy, a little awkward, he likes comic books, video games, movies, and stories. he's got his close friends but he's not really a social butterfly. he'd probably be just as happy to go home and watch movies together and hang out, rather than meet a bunch of el's "friends." it all goes to shit, as we know, which is neither el nor mike's fault, but it does.

will brings the painting to their reunion. will has been working on this painting for like a week, probably. he's poured tons of effort and time into it. he obviously doesn't get a chance to give it to him until the van, but when he does?

mike loves it.

that awestruck smile - this is for him and will made it. and we know mike particularly likes receiving will's art, he's been shown to have more of it on his walls than even joyce does. this is also why mike is so confused - these tags perfectly describe why mike is so messed up about the painting, imo. he likes gifts, and brings one for el, but el doesnt give him one back. but then will does, and he loves it, but will says its from el.

but this also explains why after the painting reveal, mike looks a little bit like he might know something's up.

gift giving/receiving and words of affirmation are the love languages that mike understands best, remember. so will byers, visibly emotional, has just given him an epic speech about how great "el" thinks he is, while presenting him with a handmade gift that's perfectly thought out for mike's interests that he poured hours of work into. let's not forget mike is very intelligent. i dont think he's fully oblivious like fandom thinks he is - when it comes to mike wheeler feeling appreciated, will has absolutely nailed it, and that's his downfall when it comes to hiding his feelings. he's too good at knowing what makes mike feel loved. so now mike's got to deal with will's perfectly adapted tokens of love and how instinctually easy he finds it to please will, vs his girlfriend, who never really makes him feel appreciated, and his own inability to make her feel appreciated

#mike wheeler analysis #mike wheeler #byler #byler analysis #anti mlvn #mike's love language is gift receiving #stranger things analysis #mike wheeler i know what you are

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alcalystrasz · 2 months

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(This has been said a lot but idc)

He loses his bestfriend, he's destroyed and he cries because he thinks he's dead and he's going to blame himself because he'll think it's his fault. The song in the background is Heroes. And the lyrics, at this precise moment are:

"And we kissed, as though nothing could fall. And the shame, [changing to Joyce and Jonathan] the shame was on the other side."

Which is a clear queer coding. That means that Mike and Will kissed (= spent time together, very close) as though nothing could fall (= nothing could go wrong), and the shame (= of being gay) was on the other side (= the Upside Down, where Will is. Because he's the obvious gay one). And it changed to Joyce and Jonathan because they're Will's family.

And now, let's skip to Season 3:

This hug, from end of season 3 is a clear parallel of the first one we saw on season 1. His face isn't obviously the same. In season 1, we can see he's sad, crying and he hugs his mom desperately. But season 3, shows a confused, emotionless Mike who hugs his mother like he's in shock. Why's that? Well...

The parallel is to show Mike's feelings. In the end of season 3, when El kisses Mike, his eyes are wide open, he doesn't move and when she's done and leaves he doesn't move, instead he looks on the side with a super confused and shocked face. And in the original script (sorry couldn't find it), we saw that Mike's reaction was like this because it was written:

What is wrong with me?

So it was meant for him to be that way (and btw Finn played it well). And then, when Hopper reads his letter to El, we can hear his voice with scenes showing up. And when he says:

"And if I'm being really honest, I don't want things to change."

Mike looks back at Will's house before leaving with his bike.

This is a lowkey queer coding. Change is the liking boys realization from Mike's side. And why Hopper says "I don't want things to change" ? Because the change means the behavior change for Mike. He'll feel like a mistake, just like Will, he'll feel different, incapable of liking a girl like every other boys his age...

So what I'm trying to say is. That these two scenes are parallels to show Mike's improvement and changement over the seasons. Season 1 he was sad because of the loss of his bestfriend. But why would we only see Mike's POV and not Dustin's or Lucas' ? They also cared about Will. No, we only see Mike's because he's Will's love interest. And in Season 3 we see a total confused Mike hugging his mother, trying to understand what happened. Because what happened is that he understood, he finally admitted he was in love with Will. Why's that? Well, first he's confused by El's I love you, and kiss. Then he looks back at Will's house, knowing he just left. And finally he hugs his mom trying to figure out what's wrong with him. Cause he thinks there's something wrong with him, as seen in the script (try to find it yourself, cause I couldn't. But I remember sawing it on Twitter 'X' !). And it's even more possible because Mike's introduction in season 4, has a lot of queer coding. I'll try to list them all.

Rainbows on the letter (= signifies lgbtq+), One Way arrow pointing to an open closet (= one way arrow -> "only possible thing/explanation", open closet -> he's out to himself), Poster with a naked Dragon (= just like Steve or Billy, straight boys, have, almost naked women, on their walls, Mike has almost naked character, men and animals from dnd), poster from a movie with an almost naked man (= to understand he likes them naked, just a gay thing I guess ;-;). For this last point, yes there's also a woman almost naked, however since the movie is about men, being way superior to women (that's the movie don't blame me, and I can't remember its name, sorry), I'm not sure he'd really want to have this woman in particular in his room.

Also there's one of Will's binder under his bed, the same one where there are tons of his drawings and finally, I'd like to end up with Mike literally destroying El's letter when Nancy tells him he's late (who does that?). So yeah that's all I could find, there's probably more, which needs more attention and analysis but I did the minimum let's say.

So all of this, to say that season 1 and 3 hugs were parallels of Mike's feelings, and that the season 3's is more possible when we notice the character introduction of Mike in season 4. So yeah, he really had a Gay realization over there!

#stranger things #finn wolfhard #byler #love #noah schnapp #byler is canon #byler tumblr #mike wheeler #will byers #byler is endgame #byler nation #byler proof #byler parallels

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campbyler · 19 days

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mmm what the fuck?

how am i supposed to live like a normal functioning person after experiencing the full range of human and Inhuman emotions?

thea i love u i promise but i also want to kill u in the most cruel way possible.

i was trying to read 32k words one hour before the work and failed Miserably 😭 i only get through driving lesson part. can u believe i had to do actual work the entire day instead of reading my gay fanfiction? 💔heartbreaking misogynistic And homophobic if u ask me.

anyway. i know im going to forget something. it always happens and then im too shy to send other asks so let hope it doesn’t happen this time.

driving lesson.

don’t worry about ur manual transmission description. i’ve changed three instructors in the span of year and a half and all three of them told me different things. i didn’t notice any Big Serious issues that would be at odds with driving mechanic.

to the other news. will sucks 😭😭 not his fault Obviously. he’s naturally anxious and tbh mike didn’t give him any hints about how to feel when the car is ready to go. not mikes fault too. i bet he doesn’t even think about this little thing anymore (and cause u don’t know about them either. which is ok don’t worry about it. u probably just need to experience it ti fully understand). i was so happy when will finally manage to get the car going 😭😭 i probably called him baby too.

and then i literally passed out when i saw the mike called Him baby?? first will’s brain in denial made me questioning was it really for him or for the car. cause mike Loves that car i wouldn’t be surprised if he really call it baby from time to time. but then i remembered that we know how mike feels thanks god and i became like 85% sure that it was for will. (i also Run to check playlist right after this line. yeah i found “king of my heart” there. u make the impossible possible cause why am i listening to two of my least favorite reputation songs and genuinely enjoy them?)

i mentally add the keychains to the list of things we need to know more about. but i think it’s cute that they both not only save them but also use them almost daily. and they both choose car keys to hang the keychains on. dare i say soulmates.

*two weeks later*

also i think it’s funny they consider each other hot while driving.

and of course mike is obsessed with old expensive cars!!

are the malls in the us exactly dying? my office building is near the mall and i can guarantee u that in my country they r super alive.

ok i might be wrong but i think that the deleted scene is from bookstore part idk.

i think it’s cute that they trust each other enough to allow to choose as significant item as journals concerning that they really picky about them.

and i loved that mike blushed over a simple kiss 🫶🏻🫶🏻

(i feel like i want to catch up on everything and it’s killing me cause i write down one thing and immediately remember the other 😭)

THEY WERE SO BOYFRIENDS IN DINER!!! i don’t think i will ever recover from how cute they r and how much they actually like each other (and how single i am. as the classic said “when someone will prey on my neurodivergency….” and so on and so forth). i love that everyone can see it and im obsessed that boys don’t even want to deny it. i think a lot about the fact that mike said that they middle school sweethearts like he regrets about the missed opportunities (but also he doesn’t regret cause the thing they have now (at this exact moment. cause i still have bad feeling) is like that Because of years of semi-friendship and rivalry and unsaid confessions).

and i think even more about the fact that mike didn’t want to talk about his pretentious ivy league college. squinting so hard and taking a lot of notes (in fact writing paragraphs of analysis to my friends who has no idea what acswy).

the photobooth scene!!! omg i can’t believe u almost deleted it all??? suni is our hero! lots of hugs and kisses and thanks to them!!

i can’t believe mike talked about showing pictures to their friends in one minute and literally kissing will on them in the other. i love them they r so silly and in love and can’t get enough of each other. u can feel how close they become and that the air is thick with the newfound (and rediscovered) feelings. and they can’t live without touching and the hold hands constantly!!! all day long!!! and it’s not enough!!! and oh. i think it wasn’t the last time we saw pictures (squinting even harder).

the way max immediately cut the bullshit and asked about swearshirt. i need to know what lucas wrote to mike.

he likes him!!!

i love the difference between mikes “i know i like him but i won’t do anything about it” and wills “i need to kiss him to death right now!”

and the kiss on the backseat of mikes stupid mustang!! we were all waiting for it!

i think i reread and memorized the last part and in still shaking whenever i think about “nervous” part. mike makes will nervous!! and he makes him shake and do stupid stuff like kissing and blushing and thinking to add heart next to his name and call him his boyfriend!!! omg!!

“I’ve got you, baby” WHO WILL GET ME??? im the one who is going insane??? it’s so tender. my boys 💔💔💔

(the second time. my eyes r hurting from squinting that much. and i feel like we’ll have “el’s not stupid” kind of scene in the flashbacks)

this character hits so hard!! i’ve never doubted any of u but i can see why this one is one of ur favorite thea!

thank u so much for ur hard work. if i could draw i would to the whole ass animation of this chapter (and any other too).

love u. thank u for reading all this rambling

mmm what the fuck is RIGHT alya bc this is how i feel every time i read one of ur lovely essay comments. bc whaqt the fuck. why do u want me to CRY ALL THE TIME. (i guess it's fair considering we are making u cry with the fic itself but still . Rude)

you are so real for trying to read 32k in one hour and also so me . rly fucked up and cruel that you would have to work (even tho u threatened to murder me)...i hope you are freed from these perils Soon. don't ever be too shy to send more asks tho every ask from you is a BLESSING and a TREAT!!! EVEN WHENTHEY ARE LACED W THREATS!!!!!!!!!!!! and also tysm for validating my manual driving lesson description bc fr every video i watched was different and i was so stressed but it's FINE. ALYA SIGNED OFF ON IT SO NO ONE ELSE MATTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!! DEAL W IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! will Does suck and that's one thing we can all agree on 💗💗💗 i was going to include a bit about likee what the engine Sounds like bc i know it sounds different when you're ready to switch gears but honest tbhly the driving scene alone is like 12k and i was super losing steam by the time i thought of it so i didn't <3 he is def a baby and mike def refers to his car as baby so he is right to be confused. but it WAS for him!! we actually aren't 100% sure of mike's feelings Yet (ch08 is meant to be the precipice of a realization, not an actual one) but obviously . we do have a pretty good idea of how he does feel. teehee. also i am glad you are enjoying komh now bc wtf......how is it one of your least faves................i support you but i am also judging u a little alya .

i think keychains will be included in one of the companions :o) also OBVIOUSLY they find each other hot while driving. they're both annoying and down bad 🙄🙄

malls here are super dying!! i think the only ones that aren't are ones in Major Cities (there's two nearby me that are pretty popular, but the other ones are mostly closed, and it's definitely been a phenomenon in the us over the last few years thanks to online shopping)!! the deleted scene is actually from the driving scene, but the bookstore scene Feels shorter bc i was truly at the point where i had nothing left to give when writing it (it was the last part of ch09 to be written), so it definitely suffered from that. if we ever do Huge post-mortem edits once acswy is over, i might go back and add to it, or write a deleted-scene-type companion, but tht's the tea w the bookstore scene <3

the diner scene was SOOOO fun to write and it had me blushing frfr. i answered this in another ask but the middle school sweethearts comment was Definitely the most insane thing that i thought of for this chapter and to me it was for sure the nail in the coffin for will of like damn. ok. he's Serious abt this. bc i think with their #history that will has trouble admitting even to himself that he likes mike, and so he'd need to feel pretty certain of how mike feels first, and after processing the middle school sweethearts comment later in the car that's what made him realize like oh damn. i Do like him. SO MUCH. and we all nodded and patted his back and said yeah baby we know. but what you described mike thinking is absolutely exactly how he feels 💗 very reminiscent and wistful, even.

LOL LITERALLY THIS HAS BEEN A UNANIMOUS COMMENT ACROSS THE BOARD OF "THANK GOD FOR SUNI" (INCLUDING MYSELF). to Explain the way i was feeling about it -- i did not initially mean to have that be a Spicy make out moment! it was supposed to read more along the lines of the thrift store scene, or even the kiss after will finished driving the mustang, so very sweet and soft and Romantic. it just didn't come out that way once i was actually writing it, and so i was nervous that i was toeing the line too heavily, or tht it was out of place with the rest of the vibe i had constructed for the chapter. a combination of suni (and abby, who got early access and acted as our second beta) being adamant that it Did fit and worked well, and me being too pressed for time/not having enough energy to rewrite that saved it from the deleted scene graveyard <3 thank god fr. they are both so fucking stupid.

the entiiiiire realization scene up from will realizing he likes mike to the very end of the chapter is my favorite thing that i have ever written i think 💗 i am just so happy with the way it turned out, especially with it being at the point in the fic that it's at!! it felt rly right for will :') also mike calling him baby!!! that was such a last minute decision but i'm so glad i went for it!! the original line was "i've got you, yeah?" but baby hit So much harder so shout out to editing thea for making that change 🤸 will wants to add a heart next to mike's name in his phone SOOOO BAD!!! WHEN WILL HE GET TO!!!!!!!!!!!

your second ask SO TRUE SO REAL. TEEHEE AND MWAHA AND SO ON AND SO FORTH. also you're so right jonathan is so fucked up for stealing steve from will like that 🙄

tytyty as always for your novel length comment alya 💗 really and genuinely and truthfully the thought of getting to read ur reactions is one of the most exciting parts of uploading a chapter!! i eagerly await all of ur other reactions <3333

#asks #ch09 #acswy spoilers #fave

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sennqu · 2 years

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ok i am ready to be spicy. so i made this post the other day (or yesterday what is time) without tags: (with some slight word changes)

"oh, I get it now. I think I understand a big reason why the "Mike is in love with Will but just doesn't want to admit it because he has internalized homophobia" is such a popular fandom opinion. Because then Mike's behavior becomes "obviously" romantic since this take assumes that he's aware of his behavior.

The take that he's "simply oblivious, simply doesn't know his feelings are actually romantic in nature", which -- in my opinion -- is much more heavily supported by the text, is... actually kind of scary to consider from a "wanting the ship to be canon" perspective. Because it's pretty much close to saying that his feelings are actually just platonic after all because that's what Mike thinks they are."

So, I have been thinking very hard on this for a while because I do think that this is why there is a sort of...friction? anxiety? in the general vibes of the fandom with regards to how byler can even work out in S5 after the events of S4.

In my opinion, I think that the second take -- Mike is oblivious -- actually lends itself well to the prospect of official, no ways around it endgame byler better than the first one does.

Because imagine it: Mike doesn't have to suffer through thinking he's wrong or he's a mistake or that he's not conforming to society's standards before coming to terms with his feelings. He just has to realize he's in love with his best friend, and that his best friend is in love with him. Mike is going to be the out, loud, and proud person of this relationship. He just has to figure his shit out.

First, what do we know about Mike so far and what can we take away from it? and why is it not "internalized homophobia"?

The biggest evidence for me against the "internalized homophobia" take is in S1 when Will was being called names by Troy and friend. Mike physically retaliated. He didn't look ashamed; he looked angry. Because they were insulting his missing best friend right in front of him. He was not internalizing these slurs. What he was doing was defending Will, who was the target of this hate. He prioritized defending Will, who wasn't even there, over cowing to displays of homophobia.

What about that "It's not my fault you don't like girls" line? Surely that means he's repressed and internalizing some shit? Yeah, and maybe he was just talking faster than his mind could think? Mike ends up clarifying this line and gives away the actual thing that's holding him back: heteronormative thinking. He talks about getting girlfriends as part of growing up as a young man. He says this like a neutral piece of information.

Let's talk about Mike's fears. So far, all of Mike’s insecurities are about being needed, being useful. It's not conforming to society. It's not fitting the mold. If he feared that then he'd have done what Lucas did and joined a popular group. But what did he do? He leaned into his DnD hobby and even started dressing differently, growing his hair out too. S4 Mike is not afraid to be an outcast.

What he does fear most is people leaving him behind. That's what he says about/to El, and that's practically what he says to Will as his excuse for being weird at the airport. The knock-off outfit, the flowers. That wasn't him trying to be straight so he wouldn't be outed as gay or in love with his best friend or whatever. That was his attempt at saving his relationship because he does love El and he doesn't want to lose her too. But they are incompatible. He doesn't realize he doesn't love her romantically but he does love her. That's why he's struggling. Because he can't differentiate between the two.

Lastly, he says to Will: "I feel like I lost you". Which means he felt like he already lost Will. Loving someone and losing them is something Mike never wants to happen again because it already happened once, twice, three times before with Will. Once when Will vanished, the second time when Will got possessed, and the third time when Will moved away. Mike's issue isn't about loving Will and fearing he's gay; it's about losing Will again.

The bolded part is the one I want to highlight because it's the most important piece of the puzzle imo. I am willing to bet that not wanting to lose Will again is going to be a huge part of Mike’s arc in S5 and is going to lead to him finally realizing his feelings. I honestly don't think Will's confession is going to figure into things at all until Mike's realized his feelings. Because the audience has to see Mike fall in love with Will before he figures out Will loves him back. The audience should not be made to think that Mike only falls in love with Will because Will's in love with him.

But how will Mike realize exactly the difference between his love for Will and his love for El if he's this goddamn oblivious? How will the process even start? El has to break up with him. No other way around it. El has to tell him straight up that she does not believe he is in love with her. Only then can Mike be free to even think about what romantic love actually means to him. I imagine this is where he and Nancy will actually get to talk about something substantial again, when he asks her what being in love means. and that will further get the ball rolling. And I believe however his arc plays out, we will get to see Mike and Will definitively end up together.

Because Mike loves Will so much. He isn't quite aware of what this love is yet but he has it in abundance. That is why he was the only one apart from Joyce who pushed for finding Will initially; that is why he is always the first to apologize when he and Will fight; that is why the best thing he's ever done was ask Will to be his friend; that is why he lashed out at Will at the roller rink; that is why he was so over the moon about Will's painting and Will's words in the van that he ironically didn't even see Will crying; that is why he only said his monologue after Will practically told him to.

Will is and continues to be Mike's most important person. Once Mike realizes he's in love with Will and the feeling is mutual? Homophobia can go suck a tail pipe because how dare this concept make the love of his life feel like a mistake? Mike is going to kiss Will as soon he realizes because he is not going to let anyone make him wait a minute longer before kissing the boy of his dreams.

sneaky edit: the underlined parts are links to other analyses i've done before regarding Mike's behavior. Analyses over the airport/roller rink scene, him being oblivious, his love for El, etc!

#this is.... very long #absolutely the longest post i have ever written #it's not as concise or as pinpointed as i wanted it to be #but that's fine. I'm laying it all out there #ku blarghs #strangely blogging #byler #this is a great starting off point for my planned predictions post too #and as is the norm for my posts... links abound...#also i know i am very confidence and 100% hope personified in this post #because i am. i am confident. not about the specifics. but i am 100% they are going to kiss #you guys can be worried about it being canon it's ok. i have enough confidence and hope for all of us lmao

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anonymous-dentist · 9 months

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Okay so I already forgot what the previous ask was even about because I ended up going on a long tangent about one scene that is so gay I have no idea how I completely missed the homoerotism. It's wild rewatching it 8 years later now especially after spiderbit; this will probably be so long I'll try not to ramble too much I"m sorry I have lots of thoughts on the cubito. massive spoilers obviously

-fCell has an odd sexual tension with fPac specifically bc he's the POV character but it just ends up fruity. He always talks within an inch of fPac's face, keeps flashing the human ear and the cellphone almost to impress him, won't stop with the fucking tongue slurping noises. There's this one scene that plays on my head constantly where, after they betray him (and Cell kills that guy) and their first attemtp at escape, they're walking through the prision's very tight sewers and Cell stops to say like "You don't even deserve to escape. You two TRICKED ME, I TRUSTED you, I HELPED YOU!" as he is holding a knife (that he just used minutes ago w/ that guy) then fPac says "And we trusted you too!" and Cell goes silent and keeps walking like????? Also right after this he sabotages fPac&Mike's escape and goes on his own and shouts something at them I can't understand for the life if me

-Tells qPac&Mike to stay away from this one specific guy on their first time meeting and when they talk with that guy (f!JV, who tells them to stay awat from Cell) he starts acting all salty and jealous. When he sees them he and JV start squabbling like exes and arguing. JV is the guy who he kills to take the spot from.

-He is livid to find out they want to escape without him so he puts the human ear in their cell and pays Guard Felps to keep an eye out for them.

Oh god that was so much and that wasn't even all of my cubito thoughts 😭 he lives in my head rent free

Cell, to me, comes off as a Wattpad character, and I say this in the best way possible. He’s a serial killer. He has a southern accent. He’s immediately infatuated with the pov character. Everyone warns the pov character to stay away from him. He eats people. He has a knife. He’s every millennial’s dream man, and now he’s even a catboy. One Direction would love him

#asks!#anon!#thank you for the info btw

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pinksmonkey · 8 months

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i have so many thoughts on this but i will try to make this coherent (re: trying to convince your friend).

a lot of mike’s character arc recently has been about insecurity and not feeling as though he has worth/value. will is the only character to address these feelings directly and dispel them.

also, we can gather that mike has been, to some extent, struggling with these insecurities as far back as season one. dating el in s3 and s4 has not relieved his insecurities — the relationship has made them worse.

every mlvn moment we had in s4, barring their fight, was centered around will’s pain/heartbreak. the way this love triangle was filmed in s4 makes it damn near impossible to root for the “happy couple,” because “oh poor will.” if people don’t think that was intentional then they’re just kidding themselves.

the painting is also a huge player here. mike felt insecure in himself and his relationship with el for the entirety of season four. he couldn’t say ily to her. the only thing that changed between their fight abt him not being able to say ily and him saying it was … will giving him the painting. el was arrested and then taken to nina — there’s nothing that happened between the two of them to change how mike felt because they weren’t in the same place. the painting and the following conversation were the only catalysts for the change in mike’s behavior. this storyline also isn’t resolved; mike made that confession thinking will’s feelings were el’s.

there’s just. a lot more i could say about this but i don’t want to go on forever and ever. there’s also a tiktok creator who i think does a very good job explaining what byler would mean for both characters’ arcs.

if your friend could agree it would make sense, but just doesn’t think ST would “do it” — they already are. will’s canonically gay and in love with mike. none of the cast shy away from this in interviews, especially david harbour, who infamously knows Some Shit. it’s already happening.

Thank you so much! This is awesome! ☺️

Yes, narratively Byler just makes sense. I don't understand why exactly but my friend just seems pessimistic about it, like he thinks the cast and writers are just lying about everyone getting a happy ending. Obviously I'd have to talk to him more about it to understand why he feels this way, but hopefully the more I can understand what he believes is happening/will happen, the more specific evidence I can use to change his mindset on it.

And thank you for linking that TikTok account, I checked it out and there are a lot of great videos I will definitely be showing my friend!

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wibble-wobbegong · 1 year

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Does Dustin Know Mike is Gay?

Now I know what you’re gonna say; “But Wibble! This goes against everything we know about Mike’s character! He’s supposed to be hiding, why the fuck would he tell Dustin!?” And I get the skepticism. I do. So, I am gently grabbing your hand and asking you to entertain me for a minute. Let’s consider what we know.

Number One

Thus far, Dustin doesn’t play any significant role in Mike’s arc with his sexuality. In fact, he’s the only party member who doesn’t somehow influence the way Mike interacts with his sexuality! How Will and El play into Mike’s arc with his sexuality is obvious. Lucas is Mike’s leader in understanding the Straight Man act in S3 and he’s representative of what Mike has realized he can’t have in S4 — normalcy. Mike can’t try to be normal like Lucas. Whenever Mike needs an example of what he’s supposed to be, whether to imitate or to be angry at, Lucas is where he turns (even though the S4 conflict itself goes beyond any sort of jealousy). Max is an influence by proxy. She’s another example of what Mike is supposed to want (girls) because that’s who Lucas wants.

Dustin, however, never seems to hold any real significance in Mike’s story with his sexuality. Hell, if we’re being really honest, Dustin hasn’t been much of a player at all in Mike’s story since S1. The one and only time we see Dustin brushing the monstrosity that is that internal conflict, it’s when he’s dragging on Mike and El in S3. You could argue the Phoebe Cates comment as well, but that doesn’t have as much to do with Dustin himself than another example of Mike being disinterested in girls.

This immediately gives Dustin an advantage in this argument. If Dustin doesn’t play a significant role in Mike’s arc with his sexuality, Mike doesn’t have much to fear with coming out to him compared to other characters. It also guarantees that Dustin won’t be heavily encroaching on that part of the story in S5, because it isn’t really relevant to him.

Number Two

Obviously that isn’t enough to say Mike would come out to him, Wibble 🙄. He still wouldn’t want to lose one of his best friends and he doesn’t know whether or not Dustin is okay with gay people!!!

Yes. Sort of. Of course he doesn’t want to lose Dustin, and coming out does risk that. However, may I introduce you to the most openly queer man in Hawkins; one of Dustin’s very good friends; someone Dustin is shown to care about dearly…

Edward Munson!

Eddie is at least somewhat open about his queerness, considering he wears the black bandana in his pocket to school and his whole ‘embrace the freak’ personality. The bandana is code to call out to people outside of his circle, but I have zero doubts that Eddie is open about being queer when he’s with the Hellfire members. Eddie isn’t ashamed of who he is, and the bandana is an active invitation to other people to join him. The bandana doesn’t serve a narrative purpose, seemingly, but that sign that he’s trying to communicate to other queer people that he’s also queer (and available). He doesn’t hide it. The same way he hunts down fellow freaks, he’s calling out to other queers.

Dustin clearly doesn’t care, considering how close he is with Eddie regardless of his blatant queerness. He’s defensive of him when accusations are thrown around about him being a murderer. Friendly reminder that the satanic panic and hunt for the freak is meant to be a metaphor for the AIDs crisis! There’s a reason they specifically mention sodomy in the magazine Eddie reads out of. Sodomy is literally anal sex. The activity most popularly believed to be the cause and spread of AIDs. It’s a pretty blatant metaphor, and Dustin goes out of his way to prove that Eddie isn’t a murderer like everyone claims, that he’s a good person even though he does play DND. There’s a ton of emphasis put on the fact that DND isn’t this horrible, sickening game that everyone believes it is; being gay isn’t a disease and Eddie isn’t a murderer. Having gay sex doesn’t kill people. Eddie engaging in gay sex (hence the black bandana) doesn’t mean he’s spreading AIDs and killing people. He’s not a murderer.

The point is, Eddie is openly queer and Dustin is not only accepting but goes out of his way to protect Eddie.

There’s some incredibly important timing going here. When do Dustin, Lucas, and Mike actually meet Eddie? The start of the school year.

Now, this is important for Mike because this means an openly queer man is approaching him and inviting him to do the very thing he’d just spent all his time doing since the Byers and El moved on July 4th. Mike hasn’t been together with El since before Starcourt. He’s been mourning the loss of his best friend for months by doing the very things he associates with being gay and in love with Will. He’s taken small steps forward in accepting himself, but having someone like Eddie be proud of himself and his identity was critical in his journey with queerness. Meeting Eddie at this point, where he’s been forced to face the fact that he can’t change the way he feels about boys, about Will, and has been broken up with El for months with no reason to assume they’re gonna get back together creates a golden opportunity for Mike to start exploring himself in a space without having to worry. Eddie is there for him.

At the same time, Eddie becomes the first openly queer person Dustin has ever met. Mike watches Dustin accept Eddie and look up to him just like he does. Dustin has a great relationship with Eddie and, as I already said, doesn’t just accept him but embraces him too. Dustin shows that he doesn’t just tolerate queerness but actively defends it.

Where Lucas doesn’t have a very good relationship with Eddie and is trying very hard to be normal, Dustin develops a great relationship with Eddie and doesn’t show anything less than full support. We can assume that this support we see in S4 doesn’t just occur then, considering the satanic panic is an ongoing issue we see picking up at the end of S3. That’s not to say Lucas is homophobic by any means (his acceptance is actually gonna be incredibly important to Mike’s arc in S5), as his motives are completely unrelated to Eddie’s queerness, but that Mike can’t have complete faith that he won’t lose Lucas more than he already has if he tells him. Telling Dustin, on the other hand, is something he knows isn’t dangerous.

Dustin having the relationship he does with Eddie shows Mike that he’s safe. Mike realizes he has a friend who knows Will who he can talk to without fear of losing him or of him being disgusted. Eddie can guide Mike through his queerness, but he doesn’t know Will. Dustin knows Will.

Number Three

That last thought brings me to point three; Dustin seems to be aware of Mike’s troubles with Will l specifically.

We’ve already established that Dustin is a safe person for Mike to talk to and that he’s the only safe person Mike knows who also knows Will. He’s one of Mike’s best friends. The possibility of Dustin knowing about Mike’s communication problem with Will is confirmed with his line about Mike’s whining, and we know that Mike doesn’t use the phone to talk to El. The choice to have Dustin be the one to give out this information is especially odd, considering Nancy is there and if there were problems with the phone she would know better than Dustin, since her and Jonathan have been staying in touch somehow. She could’ve been the one to point it out, but they have Dustin do it. They make a point out of Dustin having to deal with Mike’s whining.

I implore you to remember the last time we saw Mike whine. Like, literally whining.

Peak whiny Mike.

Again, we have mlvn put up against and losing to byler through this parallel. The last time Mine was being whiny, it was because he didn’t know he was allowed to call her first (or didn’t want to) and his partner in crime was Lucas, his exemplar of normalcy. Now, we have Mike being whiny because he literally cannot reach Will because the phone is busy. Mike is reaching out completely on his own and now he goes and whines to Dustin about it. It’s meant to be a romantic parallel just like the breakup vs the rain fight where we see how obvious it is that Mike will fight harder to keep Will in his life. I can’t imagine a scenario where Mike would be comfortable complaining so much to Dustin about it if he hasn’t told him. Reminder that, according to Lucas on the Line, Dustin does know Mike keeps in contact with El through letters. Also, Dustin’s not stupid. He knows they can’t risk exposing El to the government via phone call.

But all that goes to show the Dustin might just be aware of Mike’s feelings for Will. He finally has his place in this incredibly important part of Mike’s story without interfering with the other important people involved in this storyline, as he won’t out Mike to anyone. He can be Mike’s taste of normalcy in the sense that he doesn’t have to hide who he is around Dustin. I’m not saying they have these deep, inspirational conversations but that Mike has someone who won’t treat him differently if he wants to whine over Will.

#im not saying it’s 100% certain or anything im just saying no one should be all that surprised if it turns out dustin already knows #like the pieces are there if the duffers choose to use them #that storyline is laid out if they choose to go that direction #this is more conversational than analytical i think #idk #don’t take this too seriously. it’s just good for thought #*food #mike wheeler #dustin henderson #mike analysis #dustin analysis #never thought I’d see the day where i felt the need to analyze him #this is honestly a little rushed. my bad i just needed it out of my head (drafts)

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bylertruther · 11 months

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man makes a post specifically about /mike's/ level of comfort to do overtly gay shit, and how often it's /will/ who gets written as the uncomfortable one, people read it on mike and will's ability to do public gay shit /together/ in hawkins. okay

stopppfbshsjsbsbd it's ok 💔 the mike angst jus doesn't hit like the will angst does on bylertruther.edu.gov i guess.. they were going based off of someone else's tags so thts why it steered tht way i think.

one day we will be able to acknowledge that mike's inability to withstand even the most innocent and brief of touches with will specifically and his constant pushing will away and hyperfocusing on el may be something more in the realm of mike struggling with his sexuality and his feelings and choosing to focus on the less scary and more "normal" thing as a means of trying to get control over his situation instead of just.... (looks at the gen tag) assuming that mike is a gay disaster with no depth who is in a relationship with a girl he knows he doesn't romantically love but obviously that's as deep as that goes and there's nothing more to it or troubling about that at all? okay ❤️

mike can't hug will, can't even brush arms with him, but that's just because.... (checks tag again) will is so unbelievably sexy that it melts his brain? ok. mike is in a relationship with a girl he doesn't like Like That or in the Correct way and he STAYS in it even though he feels like shit and tries his best to make it work and worries the entire time over it way more than even she does.... but nah. he's fine! he's got that shit on lock bc he's clearly the king of compartmentalizing and self-acceptance. he'll jump right into that gay shit easy peasy and kiss will on the mouth asap!!

like. jdvdjsnshahajsn. rambling in this ask bc my tummy hurty which is making me feel like my brain is a box of bees tht someone just shook but i just. mike as a character is so endlessly fascinating there's an entire WORLD to explore in him as a queer dude in his precarious position like. it's a wealth of angst it pulls at your heartstrings he feels so much but he can't express it he Refuses to express it until he has no other choice and they're at the literal end of the fucking line he ruins things and then he tries desperately to fix them he knows his loved ones so well that he knows just where to strike and what to say to make it better like he's just . he thought he had to let go of what he loved to be a man he quit holding and touching his gay best friend that he has feelings for and tossed him to the side in favor of his gf who is supposed to resemble him.

i just. HE LITERALLY DOES THAT WITH NO ONE ELSE?! AND YOU GUYS (/gen) THINK ITS WEIRD AND CRAZY AND OOC FOR HIM TO BE HESITANT TO DO GAY SHIT..... TO BE SCARED TO ENGAGE WITH THAT PART OF HIMSELF EYES WIDE OPEN KNOWINGLY WALKING INTO THE LIGHT AND EMBRACING THAT LARGER THAN LIFE CHANGE WHICH IS SO OFTEN A DEATH SENTENCE........ YOU THINK IT'D BE WEIRD OF MIKE WHEN WE ALREADY KNOW HE DOESN'T ALLOW HIMSELF THE SAME GRACE, UNDERSTANDING, OR ACCEPTANCE AS HE DOES OTHERS?

takes a deep breath and plops down on ur dash . i jus have a lot of Mike Feelings okay ...... i see an opportunity to speak on him n i Take it!!!!!!! there is so much to him and his experience and people just don't want to come anywhere near it or any of the possibilities and it Kills me it really does .

#the ppl on tht post were right im not saying they were wrong at all we were jus having diff conversations ❤️#bc although it can be fun to read about Out and Proud mike chasing will ..... i do like to consider the natural continuation of what we've #seen on our screen and the way that mike would approach a romance with another boy. for himself first and foremost #it's such a common queer experience and yet... it gets no love or acknowledgement here #ive said it fifty times but mike couldn't even hug or touch will................. meanwhile he was hugging and touching other dudes.....#the difference? mike doesn't have feelings for those dudes. so the true difference is the homosexuality involved.#laikeeeeeeeeee im just saying............... even will can continue to touch other dudes even the ones he's in love with..........#but mike can't..... and mike is the one that pushes will away and lashes out and gets mean and acts weird....#but somehow the idea of mike not being as enthusiastic or eager as a lot of ppl assume is Weird. ok ❤️#asks

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chirpsythismorning · 11 months

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Saying gay Mike would be hated by the ga bc that would mean that he used El all those years, is homophobic, just like saying bi-Mike would be hated by the ga bc that would mean he could have just stayed with El if he is also attracted to girls, is biphobic.

Bylers using either of these as the basis for why their interpretation is most likely to play out in canon, just makes me cringe bc why are we even wasting time giving validation to homophobia/biphobia as having the last word for how the show has to play out?? Is that what it all comes down to then? Appeasing bigots??

Gays aren’t evil or trying to intentionally hurt others, least of all gay kids that are figuring out their sexuality. Let’s not act like being gay wasn’t seen as being broken or needing to to be fixed, meaning that going along with what society views as normal, was and still is seen as the only option for queer people in general. And I say queer people in general bc you don’t necessarily have to even be gay to experience questioning your sexuality and feeling like you have to do things because everyone else is. Arguably we all go through that! But especially gays in the 80’s bc for a lot of people back then, it was a matter of blending in to survive (for many it still is).

Bisexuals aren’t evil or trying to intentionally hurt others for falling out of love, losing feelings, or just merely not being attracted to/compatible with someone of the opposite sex. Straight people are capable of recognizing that they aren’t attracted to or compatible with every person they meet of the opposite sex. Does any of that make them less straight? No. So why is it so hard to understand it’s the same way for bisexuals and even queer people in general? Nobody, bisexual or otherwise should have to stay in relationships with someone they no longer have romantic feelings for, just bc they’re attracted to them or even were just confused and thought they were but it ended up not being enough?? Attraction is important, yes, but feelings are arguably even more so (especially when you have something else to compare it to, causing the dilemma in the first place). I mean look at Stancy/Jancy? Is Nancy viewed as problematic for being attracted to Steve and having deep feelings/being attracted to Jonathan, and having conflicting feelings about that? No! And so why should it be problematic for Mike?

The reality is, homophobes are going to hate Mike if he comes out as queer, regardless of whether he is revealed to be gay, bi or unlabeled.

This is why basing Mike’s sexuality on the backlash of bigoted audiences’ is a moot point to me.

I mean, as it is, most of the general audience already hates Mike as a result of his behavior in s3-4, and this is straight Mike we’re talking about! I’m obviously not referring to milkvans or Redditors, bc they only make up a minority of hardcore fans who hate byler and will defend Mike to the point of demonizing El. I’m talking about viewers that have seen the show once through each time a new season releases and then move on afterwards without being in online spaces. That is the majority. The majority of the general audience, homophobic or otherwise, does not like Mike anyways at this point. So, who the hell cares what they think about queer Mike in the end??? They’re already anticipating going into s5 and continuing to dislike him, so the argument that the show can’t do this or that bc those same people won’t like him?… That ship has already sailed.

If anything I could see the non-homophobic majority accepting queer Mike, regardless of what label he ends up identifying with, bc then at least it will finally give them some clarity about where that resentment they had for him was coming from, ie misunderstanding him completely and now finally getting some answers.

At the end of the day, bigots will do what they do best. They’ll make up any reason they can think of for why queer Mike is wrong. And so why should we base our interpretation of things on what will be more palatable to those that the show was never intended for in the first place?

#byler #gay bi mike discourse #just another Thursday in the byler tag #being a ‘remains to be seen’ truther is hard #so many are dead set one way or the other #and I just can’t defend ppl that have to shit on one to defend the other #like I’ll see a bi Mike take and be like I LOVE THIS but then it’ll end with something homophobic and it’s like ok nvm #like I just don’t see a need to tear down gay mike to get back at the problematic gay mike truthers #leave him out of it 😭#seeing homophobia/biphobia doesn’t mean you get a free pass to inflict that hate casually #two wrongs don’t make a right in this scenario #I’m an I love mike wheeler no matter what he comes out as truther till the end #and I’m willing to entertain evidence that exists out there for both #but it’s hard to support both sides when at times it comes with this cloud of homophobia/biphobia #bc I just can’t subscribe to that #and when/if mike is revealed to be gay/bi/unlabeled #please don’t be hurtful to others that ended up being wrong #like… it’s just so gross out here sometimes #we’re all real people outside of this space let’s try to remember that #let’s make this space one that’s worthwhile for those that want to be apart of this community #otherwise it’ll cease to exist bc no one will want to be here

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daisyishedwig · 2 months

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@cryscendo wanted to hear more about my Hevans AU so here are a couple of my favorite bullet points on my extensive outline.

Below a cut because I got too excited and it's long

Rocky Horror happens but like… what if Sam plays Frank and Kurt plays Rocky? Like they try to shoehorn kurt into frank and instead he says he might want to play rocky.

Sam asks about playing frank n furter after Mike’s parents pull him from the show. It’s after he’s read through the script and now understand what the show is about and it’s definitely not because frank gets to fool around with rocky.

Sam is the one who sees Karofsky cornering kurt by his locker. No talking to shue or sue because they’re useless

Sam overhears finn refusing to help Kurt and goes off on him for it.

Kurt being the one to fawn over Sam when he gets hurt in the fight with karofsky

Sam maybe offers to help Kurt teach finn and burt how to dance

That’s the first time Sam hears about karofsky threatening to kill kurt

Kurt and sam dance down the isle together, putting quinn and mercedes together

Same happens during just the way you are, kurt hands burt off to carole and he looks for mercedes but Sam appears to take over

Sam and Kurt get the duet for Sectionals

"Kurt, I want you to look me in the eye, okay? And answer this question. If we lived in a world where noone cared about you being gay or me being bi and there was no reason to see us as anything other than two people who happen to be singing a love song… would you still be uncomfortable singing this song with me? Because I genuinely do not care what anyone thinks about it, I don't care if they think I'm gay, if they make fun of me, or any of that. But if you feel uncomfortable singing a love song with me for a reason other than protecting me, then I will drop it and we can sing something else. But I would love to sing this song with you."

Kurt being very uncomfortable during the sex ed lessons from miss holiday

Sam actively asking her for resources of queer sex

Kurt panicking and thinking Sam is asking for right now and not just because he wants to be prepared for the future so he can make kurt’s first time special if they get there

“I’m not ready for that”

“Oh, babe, I know. And that’s okay. I dont’ expect you to be ready today or tomorrow or even anytime soon. I just want to make sure I know what I’m doing, so that when or if we ever do have sex… I can make it special or you”

Okay, so why would the santana and karofsky thing happen in this? Would it just be because she wants to pull the jock vote? Is it just for the beard thing? How does she not turn the entire glee club against her? Did she still make him apologize to Kurt and the rest of the Glee club? How does Sam react to Santana dating Karofksy?

Oh, fuck it, none of that matters. Karofksy will just run with someone else, it’s just simpler that way.

Rachel could still ask Sam to go to prom with her “because obviously you can’t go with Kurt since you’re not out” You know, because she’s awful.

#hevans #kurt hummel #sam evans #glee #daisyishedwig writes

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bylerspookie · 10 months

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listen, I'm a gay Mike truther

but if they go the bi Mike route, I wouldn't mind at all, but if that's the case, I hope they play it out like this post:

actually, even the gay Mike route would be nice to unfold in this way- both of them feel guilty, they're in the same position, and then they finally communicate properly, and they're pleased to find out that they're not alone, and that maybe, if they don't feel anything for eachother, they're probably just not meant to be together

and maybe Eleven talks to him about Will and his painting, and there's a big realization moment for Mike, where he's like, "oh shit- I'm dumb" LMAOO

but that's one of my theories for the van scene

remember how oblivious he was?

and remember how Finn said that, "it would pay off" ?

well, the only way oblivious Mike would "pay off", now that I think of it, is if he wasn't actually oblivious and just too scared to come to terms with his feelings, or maybe his head was just running with thoughts about, "does this mean he likes me?" but he was just too scared to be wrong

but the thing is, Mike's character is literally set up as "totally oblivious" (according to Dustin) SINCE SEASON 1

so how would this pay off?

because as I said in this post:

Mike's expressions, movements, and even breathing are of someone who is understanding what Will is saying

how would a straight man, understand what a queer man is saying (but using the straight man's girlfriend as a cover) lmfao that makes no sense right?

but then again, Finn says Mike would be better off if he just opened his ears and listened

I think Mike has been too focused on himself being queer, and his internal struggles, that he hasn't even realized how obvious his friends struggles are

we see him in that last scene, before Will cries, he smiles (it looks fake for once) and nods, and then we see him look at the painting for like a full 2 minutes

just as Will said to Mike about El's letter, the painting isn't gonna magically change into the answer you're looking for, Mike

I think in this scene, despite Mike being an oblivious character, I think he was piecing things together (Mike's character is very good at that), and he was so focused on the millions of thoughts in his head that was he couldn't think straight and help his friend out, because he was genuinely having his own internal battle

what I would kill to see an unblurred version of his face when Will is crying, because we see him look directly at Will, like?

and then he looks back at the picture

he's thinking about something, clearly

because when Will says to Mike "El told me what to draw. She commissioned it, basically."

his smile drops

and listen, at this point, we know Mike doesn't love El

but it's still Will's painting, you'd think he would still be slightly happy?

but I think in this scene, he has a moment of realization, he remembered El's letter

or maybe he was like, "wait, why do I remember something else in El's letter?"

and he was just trying so hard to remember El's letter and peice together the full story

and maybe he did

maybe he didn't

but all I'm saying is, it looks like Mike is going through all emotions in the span of a few minutes

he's happy

he's neutral

he's confused (miketober flashbacks)

his breath hitches

he's happy again

he looks like he's in love

he's sad

he's confused and happy

he's trying to be happy?

I think this is what Finn meant when he said that scene was really hardest to film, because god, imagine how many different expressions he had to make? and how he had to act oblivious? and how the lighting had to be perfect? they said they used up a whole day to shoot just that one scene, like, hello???

anyway, but yeah, this is kinda messy and I'm kind've just rambling because like yeah but

lmao

#byler analysis #byler #byler is canon #byler is endgame #byler is real #byler nation #mike wheeler #mike wheeler is gay #stranger things #mike wheeler is a boy kisser #the babygirlification of mike wheeler #mike wheeler is babygirl #mike wheeler is queer #mike wheeler is in love with will byers #will byers is gay #will byers

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suavis · 2 years

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Never interacting with ST tumblr ever again. Went to the tag after Vol 2 expecting to see posts about the episodes/s5 set up, instead I got

Death threats to Duffer Bros for not making by//er canon

People who don’t support by//er are homophobic

Horrible hate to Mileven fans

Duffer Bros are homophobic for killing Eddie bc “Eddie is gay & they killed him bc they didn’t like Stedd¡e”

We’re sick & tired of El, she shouldn’t be focused on in s5, instead Will & Mike

Mike’s speech to El is out of character, he doesn’t love her

El is boring & her abuse for her entire life isn’t comparable to Will, his unrequited love for Mike is worse than her torture

Mike should’ve died instead of Eddie & he’s homophobic to Will, Mike is the worst person in the show

I’m also not interacting with ST tumblr again bc of the white mlm fetishizers. Billy was clearly racist to Lucas & abusive to Max (I understand he was abused but that doesn’t excuse his racism and horrid treatment of Max) but yet Steve & Billy is a popular ship. If Lucas was white, we’d see more Lucas/Dustin. But we don’t. Women are also always pushed to the side for mlm ships, so many posts diminish El for by//er

LITERALLY you’ve encompassed everything i hate abt the fandom 💀 it’s never really surprising when fandoms only care abt bland white men they can hc as gay/bi and then fetishize but truly the attempted character assassination of multiple whole ass children bc they don’t play into their specific narratives they want is extra foul.

i thought st*ddie was cute in passing at first but then the fans and esp eddie fans started acting Like That and i was outta there 💀 ain’t no way they thought it was going to end any other way have the ever watched this show before??? like he was fun but ultimately he was just some guy that some ppl in this fandom care more abt than MAX who’s been around for three seasons now like make it make sense???? and same with billy stans they just choose to ignore full on racism like i saw one say they did believe he was racist but still liked him 💔 truly no saving them the way y’all will cape for random white men even if they’re racist and abusive…… ur not seeing heaven

and YES the way this fandom passes over the black characters (the very few that exist 🥴) is sooooo…. obvious truly. billy apologists are obviously the worst of em but. if will had been in love with lucas and he’d been acting like mike first of all there wouldn’t even be a quarter as many shipper and second lucas would have been eviscerated 💔 people’s priorities in this fandom could not be clearer tbh

and people’s hatred of eleven is so transparent 💀 if she wasn’t in the way of that certain ship nobody would give a fuck but instead they’ll say she’s just his beard, she’s aroace/lesbian (which obvi i support hcs like this wholeheartedly but when the ONLY purpose is to try to make it so she couldn’t possibly be attracted to mike and so now will can have him???? gtfo), she looks like a man (which is mentioned MULTIPLE times in the b*ler slideshow LMAO make it make sense….. i’m a woman with short hair does that make my gf straight???), etc.

also yeah their fixation specifically earlier on the fact that mike couldn’t say i love you to her and then when he finally did it was out of character/him projecting his feelings for will on her??? it’s disrespectful to the characters tbh like the way they characterize mike idek how they like him anymore considering how they seem to believe he’s manipulating eleven AND being an asshole to will while still being in love with him??? i have truly never seen a fandom so deluded over next to zero actual evidence but i wasn’t around in the days of tjlc so 💀 but i’m definitely seeing some similarities LMAO it’s bad like. i think EVERYONE can agree that will is into mike but b*lers seem to think that means mike is going to have to be into will too like. ik they’re still hung up on their middle school/high school straight best friends (or are still IN middle/high school with that straight best friend 💀) and want to think that he’ll get the happy ending they didn’t but. truly i do think will deserves better than this even if mike DOES return his feelings like. they would not be a good couple 💔 here’s to hoping will gets a bf in s5 and all the characters get to be happy for once and b*let fans finally shut up <3

#this is gonna be a long one #anti steddie #anti byler #anti billy hargrove #anti eddie munson #kinda but i’m mostly putting it to avoid his fans SHDJD #stranger things #asks #anonymous #thank u for this ask btw anon it’s nice to know other ppl also see this bs JDDHDH

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thestrangestthing89 · 1 year

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More Jancy/Stancy and M*leven/Byler parallels and how they relate to conformity:

Stancy and M*leven represent conformity. Steve and Nancy are both from upper middle class families. She's a good student and he's popular. On paper they are the perfect couple. They are always associated with the Wheeler parents - the people who get married and have some kids in the suburbs. The people who got married because they were supposed to not because they love each other. Which is a life Nancy has already expressed she doesn't want. Mike and El also follow this path. Both represent the relationships everyone expects. The superhero girlfriend who needs to be educated about the world has a nerdy boyfriend. They too are expected to get married and have some kids in the suburbs and live out the Wheeler family life. Both are superficial relationships that don't have a whole lot of depth and understanding between the characters, like the Wheeler parents. There is always an emotional disconnect between Steve and Nancy (with regard to Barb but Steve still does this to Nancy. After Henry shows Nancy the vision and she's telling the group, Steve says "he was just trying to scare you" which is honestly so condescending. Like obviously he was doing that, but that doesn't mean her fears aren't valid or that there isn't a problem to solve. It's dismissive, not supportive.)

There is also an emotional disconnect with Mike and El (with regard to every goddamn thing because these two don't know how to have a conversation). Steve dismisses Nancy's feelings in the same way Mike dismisses El's feelings (calling her ridiculous). And honestly El dismisses Mikes right back when he tries to talk to her about how he was bullied, which is difficult for him. She shuts it down and says it's not the same. There is no emotional support here from either of them. Nancy also has not been shown to be emotionally supportive of Steve at any point.

On the flip side there is Jonathan and Nancy who represent the relationship both characters want, not the one they are supposed to want. They are both from different socioeconomic statuses. This was a big deal in the 80s, so much so that there is an entire John Hughes movie (Pretty in Pink) where Molly Ringwald's character (who is poor) has to hide her relationship with her rich boyfriend because everyone in school will bully them. And the rich boyfriend is all insecure about it and doesn't want to be seen with her. Nancy obviously isn't insecure about being seen with Jonathan but she doesn't understand his point of view in season 3 when they fight about how he couldn't afford to complain about his job. It's part of what leads to him lying to her about college applications - because he doesn't think she can understand. The thing about this is that all they have to do is have a conversation about this topic for them to both reach a better understanding of each other. They've done this before both in seasons 1 and 2. I think it will happen considering Jonathans entire character arch from the past two seasons remains unaddressed. Nancy and Jonathans relationship was built on emotional understanding and support they just aren't communicating very well right now. It's the unconventional relationship because Jonathan is the weird quiet kid and weird quiet kids don't get the cool rich girlfriend. (This is different than the nerdy boy getting a superhero girlfriend - Jonathan isn't nerdy and Nancy isn't a superhero.) Mike and Will also are the unconventional relationship obviously because they are gay. It's the relationship they want even though they are being told they shouldn't. The nerdy boy is going to get the superhero boyfriend. They just also aren't communicating very well right now. This relationship was also built on emotional bonds and mutual support. Interestingly, Mike and Will don't seem to have the same disconnect when it comes to money that their siblings have. Their main issue stems from insecurities around their identities which leads to their miscommunication issues this season. I think that if these storylines are written well (and I think they will be since they have been up until now) this could provide the GA with a good narrative on conformity and how it's dangerous to push relationships on people. Up until now, I can't think of any media (at least not mainstream) that is trying to push the audience into thinking that our usual societal norms need to be questioned. It will be interesting to see if people end up understanding this. I strongly suspect that a portion of the fandom (the homophobes and Steve worshippers) will not and will be pissed. But it could make a positive impact on the GA that isn't like that.

#byler #anti mileven #jancy #anti stancy

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ellmaii · 1 year

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Something I noticed since getting into tumblr are the amount of post bashing Mileven in favour of Byler AND the amount of people claiming that they don’t love each other.

It seems that a lot of the post used to explain why Byler should happen are an analysation of Mikes and Elevens relationship and why they don’t think they’re compatible. If people don’t believe they love each other that’s fine but why must that mean Mike likes Will instead?

Will likes Mike, at this point it’s very obvious and has been hinted at for a long time. BUT, what gives people the impression that Mike likes him back? What gives people the impression that Mike is homosexual at all? Sure, we’ve never seen him like a girl other that Eleven but at least we’ve seen him be visibly attracted to one girl, but I’ve never seen him be that way towards another boy. We have seen him compliment her appearance on many occasions and not just to be nice because you can see the attraction on his face. He clearly enjoys kissing her. I know people like to point out the scene where she says ‘I love you too’ and his shocked and non verbal response to her kiss but to me it was just that, shock. Shock that she knew the what he said the whole time and that she felt the same way and expressed it for the first time unexpectedly. He’s very physically affectionate with her and expressed that she’s the most important thing in the world to him on a number of occasions and not always through words, but his actions. When it comes to Will though, like the rest of his friends he tends to neglect his relationship with him in favour of El. Even when Will is practically crying out for Mikes attention he doesn’t even notice, everything to him is about El. Obviously he’s his best friend and he loves him but I never understood how Mikes feelings for him could be interpreted as anything other that platonic.

I don’t speak on behalf of all gay people but I’m a lesbian who didn’t come out until I was 15. Now I’m 20. Before that I had a few boyfriends, trying to convince myself I liked them because all my friends had boyfriends. I remember when I’d kiss them it felt like a chore, I wouldn’t let a kiss turn into a make out session because I would get uncomfortable. I found it disgusting and I’d share that opinion with friends. I never really had any real physical attraction to the boys I dated. It was always I liked the way they dress and their personality and respect they had for me but nothing more. When I see Mike with El, how he looks at her, his protectiveness, always wanting to please her and buy her gifts and his displays of affection, hand holding and kissing.. I see myself with girls I like, in ways I could never see myself behaving with a man.. because I am not attracted to them. As a lesbian who has experience zero and one sided attraction relationships, I cannot comprehend how people argue that Mike is gay. In all honesty, at 13 when season 1 came out, his behaviours towards El we’re always something I looked for in a relationship and never found until I was true to myself and found it with girls.

I tag Byler, Mileven, Anti Mileven and Anti Byler in this post NOT to be disrespectful, disregard how Byler shippers feel or try to convert anyone to shipping Mileven BUT to give the opportunity to hear why people believe so strongly that Mike has feeling for Will. I do not understand but I’d like to. None of the post I have read so far have given me the impression that Mike feels the same way for Will so I want to understand where people get the idea from.

#anti mileven #anti byler #mileven #Byler #eleven #will byres #mike wheeler #elmike #byler is canon

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paintingformike · 1 year

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I got really curious after one of your latest posts about your thoughts on bi mike vs gay mike. what's your main evidence for bi mike?

personally, I was a bi mike truther until I started my latest st rewatch a week ago. I always thought that mike had a genuine crush on el in season 1 but this time I noticed that mike didn't really show any romantic interest in her until lucas pointed out that mike likes el. before that, it was just mike being his friendly and caring self. and idk, every romantic moment between them seemed so forced to me, like mike was just doing what he thought he was supposed to be doing. and yeah, that whole dialogue before their first kiss was also weird. I haven't started season 3 yet, so maybe there will be some moments that'll show that mike is bi but for now, my only evidence of him being bi is byler/rockie parallels because vickie is clearly meant to be bi. I'm just so confused now, honestly, because I was so sure that mike is bi before this rewatch lol

sorry if some of these sentences don't make sense, my English is really bad...

nooo anon dont worry about your english, you’re perfectly understandable! to me personally i do see them portraying mike having genuine (but shallow) feelings for el via the inherently romantic tropes applied to them in s1-s2 (getting interrupted, the tiny bit of tension between them and all that), but that’s it, and the way i interpreted the painting plotline also makes me believe he had a shallow infatuation for el, but i’ve read a lot of gay mike analyses that have made me reconsider my stances on his sexuality and the byler storyline.

the byler/rockie parallels are also strong evidence of bi mike (and byler getting together in general) but it’s not really enough for me to discount the possibility of gay mike in the show considering a lot of points that make me believe they might go that route are narrative choices for his character. one example being the way he only showed interest in el after it was pointed out to him by other people, like you said, the stark contrast in how they make lucas and dustin show interest in multiple women but little to nothing from mike in comparison, they’ve also made him mirror will in this aspect (the way they both react to max in s2 compared to lucas and dustin).

season 3 was the most “i’m just doing what i think i’m supposed to do in typical het romantic relationships” season for mike because...he really was just being coached around by lucas constantly, looking totally clueless without him and most of his actions just him trying to adhere to societal expectations like getting his girlfriend a gift (?) and just. not initiating anything himself out of genuine love for el, he really needed a third party to hold his hand through navigating his relationship 😭 also the byler fight in s4 and how he said “thats because shes my girlfriend will” emphasizing the status of their relationship instead of saying something more genuine like el being important to him so obviously he’d write her letters...the majority of it was just him putting up a performance.

tbh he can still be bi and conforming to whats considered “normal” and thats what i was always firm in, but it can also be that they’re trying to portray how he really has no clue how to act when it comes to girls because he just feels no attraction to them. like the reason he needs his hand held through his relationship with a girl is because as a gay man it was never meant for him from the start, and the reason he can’t tell her he loves her is because...it was always impossible for him to feel anything towards her. he didn’t realize it at first (he wasn’t even sure of the difference between platonic and romantic before they kissed) but by s4 he was fully aware he only felt platonic care for el and was scared of losing her if he was honest about his true feelings (which explains the desert heart to heart he had with will.)

the duffers (or any other person from the writer’s room) have watched shows that portrayed internalized homophobia and characters that dated women while being cloested gay men, such as dawson’s creek and eyewitness, so that’s another factor that makes me think they could be writing mike to be gay because they’ve already gotten ideas of what it’s like, they’re not completely clueless. anyway this got too long (sorry anon i got carried away asjdksj) but the bottomline is i think both bi and gay mike have equal chances of being canon and are strong contenders in their own right, and while i used to think they wouldn’t explicitly confirm his sexuality, i realized they basically have to because they also need to clarify in the plot the true nature of mike’s feelings for el throughout their relationship and if he ever really loved her or felt attracted to her, it goes hand in hand with his sexuality arc and they can’t really just brush this over without leaving some kind of gaping hole in the storyline. mike’s gonna have to express how he really felt about el throughout their relationship so yeah...those are my two cents 👍

#i hope i was able to answer your question on anon #i feel like i ended up going in circles and went into a deep explanation of my thoughts oops #ask #byler #mike wheeler

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