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supremechancellorrex · 44 minutes
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One thing I found rather disappointing about the live-action was Princess Yue and the missed opportunity of her character. Now, if the live action show had completely rewrote Yue to be a bigger character with more story outside of her sacrifice and flirting with Sokka, perhaps add-ons like her waterbending and spiritwalking wolf concept could have been further developed and worked but they didn't do that. Unfortunately, despite becoming a moon goddess and the potential of a character like that, the writers would rather spend time on baby Azula.
And Yue's romance with Sokka is somehow even less developed than in the cartoon. By just leaving out the Romeo and Juliet-like aspect of Yue's story, it actually makes Sokka and Yue's relationship (a relationship I wasn't even that into) even less interesting in the live-action to the point of unbearable. Yes, it was a bit cliché at times in the original cartoon, but there was at least conflict to engage with with Yue feeling constrained by her royal duty to her people via betrothal and thus the tension with Sokka. Of course, the cartoon could have elaborated on what the marriage to Hahn gave her people. Is there political instability? Does Hahn's clan control the seaweed trade? Why does it matter? That was the cartoon's flaw.
But instead of improving things, the live-action makes the character storyline worse. By removing any sense of conflict or cross purposes or issues for Yue's character, meaning all live action Yue has to think about is smiling and making ice snacks and briefly talking about her spirit wolfing with Sokka, she comes across as incredibly flat. And, thus, her sacrifice far less meaningful than before.
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Something about this man (*sighs wistfully*)
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PEDRO PASCAL in every episode of NARCOS (2015–2017)
► 1x08 - La Gran Mentira
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I've been hearing a lot of people say that Ozai in the Avatar: the Last Airbender cartoon isn't supposed to be "developed" because he's a "symbol". My problem with this is that a character can both be well-developed and a symbol at the same time, so why choose otherwise? "It makes sense because he's supposed to represent" doesn't justify leaving the writing a little loose.
In the cartoon, Ozai is hardly a character to sink your teeth into. You can surmise and speculate things about him, but ultimately every discussion was more about Zuko or another character overcoming him and how satisfying that was than any character depth of Ozai himself. On the Day of Black Sun, Zuko and Ozai's confrontation is less an argument and ideological battle with layers between two human beings and more an extremely developed character yelling at an evil cardboard cutout.
The Problem With Ozai
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Zuko: "It was cruel and it was wrong."
Ozai: "Lol."
Zuko: "We need to replace this era with an era of peace and kindness."
Ozai: "Lame." (*scowls in annoyance, tries to leave*)
Zuko: "Stay or I'll cut you." (*waves swords*)
Ozai: "Fine. Whatever. Go on" (*proceeds to sit back down and wonder if he's having spiced fire rice cakes for dinner*)
The way the cartoon presents it, Ozai just was a bit too a moustache-twirling villain and that's even considering his actions. It's not even him being morally bankrupt or sadistic, but that his entire character only exists on the surface level. Him being "superficial" and "ruthless" isn't even a character trait because he has no real character beyond "I'm arrogant, selfish and evil". Even some of the worst dictators in human history from Hitler and Stalin to Mussolini and Mao have more complex 'psychological depth' than Ozai, despite committing the most evil and awful acts against other human beings.
I got they want to reflect the toxicity of the Fire Nation with him as a symbol, "fear" and "ruthlessness", but these are symptoms and the result of an ideology, and Ozai and this ideology need a bit more than "The Fire Nation's ideology is that they're superior, share the greatness and just kill people". We never see Ozai really talk about this ideology, how he is *civilising* the other nations (well, besides, setting them on fire). Why does he think Fire is superior? Why does the Fire Nation? We can speculate it's the unity of the Fire Nation and its industrialisation, that maybe the Fire Nation thinks they have better tea ceremonies and cleaner cities, but none of the Fire Nation characters really talk about this. Sharing their 'greatness', how?
And, of course, we know and the show know their 'greatness' is a lie and farce really, but for their citizens to buy into this farce realistically for 100 years, sending sons and even daughters to die for it, presumably working in factories endless hours to keep up war production like that giant drill, one would think the smokescreen would be a little more convincing than a couple lines. Yes, in the Headband, they show the kids are taught a warped version history with the Air Nomad army, but what is the unifying ideology of the Fire Nation exactly? And how does this reflect Ozai? Beyond ruthlessness and being a smarmy jerk?
And this brings me to a scene I have quite a problem with. The War Meeting flashback in Sozin's Comet Part 1, essentially Ozai just goes from 'How do we quell rebellion?' to 'We will destroy their hope by killing them all with fire'. Hehe, well, I mean, why even talk about "destroying hope" when they'll be too dead to despair? Of course, Sokka says after hearing that literally "I always knew the Fire Lord was a bad guy, but his plan is just pure evil". Then they throw in an Ozai baby picture to pretend they have some nuance, and then blah, blah, Energybending turtle appears out of near nowhere.
A Better Ozai
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(I want it noted how hard it was to get a decent gif of cartoon Ozai, especially in his Pheonix King regalia. That is how little people care about or are interested in him. There is more Daniel Dae Kim gifs from the live-action than the cartoon version)
The funny thing is Ozai burning the Earth Kingdom could have worked if they actually gave him character arc in the cartoon. Have Ozai start out believing he can civilise the Earth Kingdom, who he views as inferior and needing to be kept in check. We see in the show Earthbending is banned in Fire Nation colonies and annexed territory, but they should also show him introducing policies to ban certain styles of Earth Kingdom dress, specifically their green national colour dress, and customs, forcibly *civilising* these territory with authoritarian laws. Earth Kingdom children have to go to Fire Nation school to be indoctrinated in how their cultures and homes are inferior, and told to report on their parents.
However, as time goes on, Ozai becomes increasingly disenfranchised with the war, as colonised Earth Kingdom citizens continue to resist, Earthbend and continue banned cultural practices in secret. He feels rising disgust at these people's Earthbender stubbornness and 'backwards' practices, resisting engaging in and conforming to Fire Nation's 'superior' cultural practices, science, and education. How dirty they are, so unFire-Nation, he thinks more and more. He begins to unravel in his hate and think to himself things like how "You just can't take the root edge out of people, so I should burn the root to the ground. Make the world clean, pure and Fire Nation".
If they showed Ozai in the cartoon shifting from the standard position of his father Azulon to an even more extreme and horrifying position over time, reacting in all the worst ways to whatever the world throws at him increasingly and increasingly, his turn as the Pheonix King could have been far more chilling. Azula isn't the only one who has to go "crazy" due to the Fire Nation's twisted teachings. It would have further emphasised the cycle of toxicity in the Fire Nation that Sozin set in motion.
Imperialism and fascism is often driven by a number of things in conjunction, commonly economics, but also vain pride, fear and discomfort; pride of your own nation at the expense of others, as well as fear and discomfort of others, how 'different' they are, their 'weird illogical customs' diluting the 'pure culture of yours' that you understand, their 'strange appearances' changing the face of the culture you know, that you like and think is the greatest and should be eternal. They could be spies, enemy agents of chaos and degeneration. They need to be 'civilised' or 'exterminated' to silence conflict and bring order, this 'dark horde' of backwards people who just can't ever be allowed to be 'in charge'. I think a weakness here is that Ozai is never shown to show any discomfort, he's just so confident and evil about everything, but if he were to reflect the dark face of the Fire Nation, a people they say aren't wholly evil demons, he does a bad job showing the twisted human face of evil and it makes him irrelevant in a way as a character with the themes other than "Defeat evil guy".
Lessons Taught Improperly
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Now some would try to defend Ozai in that Avatar: The Last Airbender is a kid's cartoon, but I would say that makes it more important when discussing real-life issues. What is the point of lesson if it is taught improperly? Sometimes that can do more harm than good.
Avatar includes a number of mature themes, including the genocide of Aang's entire people and Gyatso's skeleton. Judging by the Tibetan influences in Air Nomad culture, a real-life people who have also been genocided, I think it is necessary and good practice for even kid's shows to make sure the lessons on real-life evils like the concepts and systems of imperialism, colonialism and nationalism are taught well. Because otherwise you get an inaccurate picture of what it is and how it actually works, and what is the point of that?
Stories want to impart lessons on things being "bad" as a message, but often I think they fall short in getting to the point of why they happen. I wonder if that makes them a little pointless in a way, because the reasons why characters/people and nations do things is both important to good writing and real life. If you aren't taught it properly, how well can you recognise it in your own country? And if you can't, then hasn't the lesson failed to be imparted?
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supremechancellorrex · 3 months
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Exactly! The original show will always exist. This is just an interesting new take. As a fan of elseworld tales, I just love seeing the story I love taken somewhere new after a couple decades. It's pretty fun just being online and guessing and speculating on how the plot and characters will be.
I have made a decision, when I sit and watch Avatar the last airbender live action, I'm going to enjoy it for what it is. I'm not going to be like, this is not what happens, they did this wrong. I'm going to think of it as a different version of atla and just enjoy what they have created with their hard work
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supremechancellorrex · 3 months
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God, the vibe in this scene is perfect.
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supremechancellorrex · 3 months
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Yeah, Star Wars definitely does not write trauma well. It's a shame because it really takes away something from the characters. Characters exist so we can get into the psychology of them and understand them, and yet with Star Wars things are so ill-defined or left up in the air because the writers either forgot or chose not to deal with them at least properly. These characters could be so much more than they are.
Hmm, I just was thinking about something and I've started to realise something. When I look at Anakin, I just don't see someone who was ever a former slave. The narrative says he was, but they present it so depthlessly in the movies and TCW it feels like a superficial adornment that doesn't quite gel with the character being shown. I feel there has a been a real failure in character crafting here.
It's probably why when I do read fanfics that explore the slavery plotline and the actual trauma impacts with Anakin, Anakin ends up just a wildly different character, arguably OOC. It's just not a natural, actually authentic part of his characterisation despite the narrative tacking it onto his backstory.
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supremechancellorrex · 3 months
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That's be fantastic. All these story elements can be expanded upon and approached with a fresh perspective. Especially since they won't have to wrap an episode up in 22 minutes and the show will be more serialised. I'd love for them to dive deep into these dynamics, especially considering how important all these characters are. We could definitely have more Ozai, since he doesn't really appear in that many episodes in the original show despite being the main antagonist. I always felt we could gave got way more from him than just 6 episodes in Book 3. And, it'd be great to see more of Lu Ten, especially considering how important he is for Iroh's storyline, including Iroh's dynamic with Zuko.
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”Read this and tell me what you think should be done, Azula“
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supremechancellorrex · 3 months
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In terms of Jedi Apologists pretending to be "woke" when their community is actually rife with homophobia, ableism, abuse apologism and yes to an extent- racism- I have one more point to add.
Never read their takes on mental health. I mean it, especially if you know someone who struggles with mental health issues or you do yourself. Some of their stuff is absolutely vile.
The amount of victim-blaming and the way they attribute mental health problems to "moral deficiency" or eqaute them with evil is absolutely vile. You would think we were still livng in Victorian times with some of these people.
Yeah. Like, Jedi apologists often fail to recognise how screwed up the canon actually makes the Jedi and instead try to defend them with any means necessary. I often have seen them jumping through hoops and bizarrely throwing around unrelated-topic words like "Homophobia", "Nazi" and "Racist" at people who critique the Jedi Order, both diluting these words which concern actual real-life, serious issues and insulting people at the same time all for the sake of fictional magic characters. It's definitely not "woke" to support a theocratic Order and fascist Republic that deals in slave soldiers.
It doesn't surprise me their takes on mental health are so wonky. I've seen them victim blame Ahsoka for the Wrong Jedi arc. Anyone hurt or taken advantage of by the Jedi Order is apparently always in the 'wrong', never the Jedi. They'd rather rip apart a teenage girl to protect precious middle aged idiots with cool lightsabers than actually evaluate the unethical actions of the Jedi Order and its relationship with the Republic.
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supremechancellorrex · 3 months
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Yeah, a lot of things don't gel over all. There's a lot of inconsistencies by and between writers and many moments where the writer is forcing the plot over how characters would actually react organically. We don't really get to see the characters be more fully human a lot of the time, with things like trauma properly addressed and written, driving the plot in a likelier direction. I get it's Star Wars so at this point it's just how it is and has been for a long. Anakin and a number of other SW characters have been hit hard with this. I myself find it hard to reconcile a lot of aspects of Anakin's Prequel movie self, his TCW self and his backstory in relation to that.
It's shame because the world and the potential of these characters feels missed out on. The more I look back, I think what I'm really getting from these stories at times, especially when they can't be bothered to put the work into making the characters and plot more consistently well-written. Ah, Star Wars, up and down rollercoaster, and honestly it's been going down for pretty long now.
Hmm, I just was thinking about something and I've started to realise something. When I look at Anakin, I just don't see someone who was ever a former slave. The narrative says he was, but they present it so depthlessly in the movies and TCW it feels like a superficial adornment that doesn't quite gel with the character being shown. I feel there has a been a real failure in character crafting here.
It's probably why when I do read fanfics that explore the slavery plotline and the actual trauma impacts with Anakin, Anakin ends up just a wildly different character, arguably OOC. It's just not a natural, actually authentic part of his characterisation despite the narrative tacking it onto his backstory.
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supremechancellorrex · 3 months
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Fair enough, I understand your perspective even though I don't quite agree. As for the "character critical tag", hehe, I just use that to warn newcomers who will see our/my post and may hate my perspective on Anakin/Darth Vader. Some people have commented on my posts before like "How dare not tag this is as critical" even when I felt I wasn't even being that critical. I can never figure out what the rules or social etiquette of tumblr are, it's almost like it doesn't have any.
“He should have known better.” Leia passed the electrobinoculars to Han. “He was a Jedi.” “He was a kid with a dead mother.” Han raised the electro-binoculars, but he seemed to be looking more toward the banthas than the bones. “He vented his anger on the ones who killed her. I might have done the same thing.” “That doesn’t make it right,” Leia said. “And it doesn’t make me a Sith monster, either,” Han retorted. “What he did wasn’t evil, it was human. Later, he became Darth Vader and did a lot of terrible things, but don’t forget that he’s the one who killed the Emperor.” “You’re saying you forgive him?” Leia asked. “After he froze you in carbonite?” “I’m just saying that without him, Palpatine would still be Emperor.” “You’re saying Darth Vader saved the galaxy?” Han shrugged. “Well, Anakin Skywalker. Think about it. If he’d have been a nice guy, do you think he’d have ever gotten that close to Palpatine?” Han continued to watch the banthas through the electrobinoculars. “Maybe that was your father’s destiny all along, to save the galaxy just like his mother thought he would - well, maybe not just like she thought. But he did save it.”
Tatooine Ghost by Troy Denning
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supremechancellorrex · 3 months
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I suppose they wanted him to be like 'Nah, sis, stay home and eat Ben&Jerry's instead of sharing this moment with me'?" MAGA are so controlling and interfering. They can't let personal family business be. Apparently siblings who love each other can't spend time together and share moments because it's "WOKE" to them. The alt-right think everything is their business and don't want anyone to be free to live their lives on their own terms.
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supremechancellorrex · 3 months
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These guys are fancy as hell. Look at those moves!
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DALLAS LIU & KIAWENTIIO | Entertainment Weekly
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supremechancellorrex · 3 months
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Literally. Feels like any thing is just an excuse for fans to have a meltdown immediately and assume they now know everything. This fandom could cry a river, they're the real waterbenders.
ATLA fans, please calm the fuck down until we've actually seen the show and know if they've given Sokka a different character arc.
If he remains static, then you can go feral.
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supremechancellorrex · 3 months
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It's really quite amazing how little Azula and Ozai interact in the original show. It's even crazier we never see Iroh and Ozai have a single scene together. I'm glad that they're rectifying this in the A:TLA live-action adaption so we can get a deeper perspective and some new potential angles.
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”Read this and tell me what you think should be done, Azula“
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supremechancellorrex · 3 months
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I think they'll definitely remove the Uncle Iroh and June thing. In live-action it'd be even more awkward to even do with real actors, one would seriouslt debate the point of the effort. Also, as for Sokka's sexism mini-arc, I don't necessarily mind them dropping it mainly because the show didn't really approach sexism with any real depth. Pakku literally ends up teaching Katara because she's the granddaughter of his long lost love. Sokka just needs to get his ass kicked about 4 episodes into Book 1 and he reforms. While I actually think exploring sexism would still be interesting for the show, especially if we consider the Confuscian ties to the cultures that are presented in say the Earth Kingdom especially, I'd hope it have a little more to say if they do go that root because it's rather underdeveloped in the cartoon as a worldbuilding and social aspect.
Unpopular opinion time: Sokka unlearning sexism isn't actually a large part of his character arc--it literally only takes the opening episodes. And removing it COULD be a sign that the live action is taking seriously the complaints I've seen from native fans about the original show runners deciding to make the Water Tribes that sort of sexist to begin with. Sokka's actual character arc is about gaining confidence and leadership skills, and they have the opportunity to focus on that MORE if they change the Kyoshi episode to focus on Suki as a fellow teenager forced into a leadership/protective role in her community and rocking it rather than using her as an object lesson on sexism for a male character to learn from. Whether they will ACTUALLY do that is on them, but it took me less than ten minutes to think up, so I sure hope someone in the writers' room actually cares about using the live action to expand on new angles of the characters. Big ask, I know.
Now the real question is: did they also remove Uncle Iroh's unwanted physical advances on a literally paralyzed Jun, and all of Zuko's snipes about girls? Because THOSE are the actually "iffy" sexism parts in AtLA, not Sokka's five minute arc.
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supremechancellorrex · 3 months
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Agree that Lucas made a mess of it totally to the point even now there are just so many issues. Hell, a lot of key character points about Anakin aren't even present in the movies, some were deleted, others were added later via other material that's canocity isn't always fully secured. The fact Lucas never really properly focused on the "grooming" aspect of Palpatine and Anakin's relationship is testament to the sheer lack of character writing. In any other story, that'd be front and centre, and unmistakable, and yet it actually just feels mostly tacked on by other material and actually creates other issues with characterisations. I disagree on Han Solo and Anakin being similar however, I don't interpret Anakin as loyal at all. Anakin to me just comes across as possessive, fixated and insecure over people. Even when he's angry about the Jedi wanting to watch Palpatine, it's more because it's his mentor who enables him more than anything else. Otherwise, Anakin drops people like sacks of potatoes. It's all really a totem pole to him. Of course, this is my interpretation of the underwritten and disjointed character mess presented to us. As for Leia, while "cursed blood" is actually quite a bit out there, I was making the point that I don't really feel the argument Han would make would actually convince her it wasn't "cursed". And because the Star Wars canon handles the story so badly, especially with the Sequels, it kinda feels they actually go back and forth like a spinning top on this. They kinda shoot themselves in the foot in my opinion.
I think the problem with debating these characters with the novels in mind is that there's been so many different writers involved at this point the canon isn't even consistent. Anakin is a pawn in one author's interpretation and a vital piece in another's. This is why I don't really like talking about the novelisations and a lot of the comics I've realised, both the current canon (not sure what that even means in Star Wars) or EU/Legends stuff either. I honestly feel these characters are getting overladen with details that keep altering their characterisation but often don't work over all nor are properly dealt with.
Cheers for the talk though.
“He should have known better.” Leia passed the electrobinoculars to Han. “He was a Jedi.” “He was a kid with a dead mother.” Han raised the electro-binoculars, but he seemed to be looking more toward the banthas than the bones. “He vented his anger on the ones who killed her. I might have done the same thing.” “That doesn’t make it right,” Leia said. “And it doesn’t make me a Sith monster, either,” Han retorted. “What he did wasn’t evil, it was human. Later, he became Darth Vader and did a lot of terrible things, but don’t forget that he’s the one who killed the Emperor.” “You’re saying you forgive him?” Leia asked. “After he froze you in carbonite?” “I’m just saying that without him, Palpatine would still be Emperor.” “You’re saying Darth Vader saved the galaxy?” Han shrugged. “Well, Anakin Skywalker. Think about it. If he’d have been a nice guy, do you think he’d have ever gotten that close to Palpatine?” Han continued to watch the banthas through the electrobinoculars. “Maybe that was your father’s destiny all along, to save the galaxy just like his mother thought he would - well, maybe not just like she thought. But he did save it.”
Tatooine Ghost by Troy Denning
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supremechancellorrex · 3 months
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Personally disagree. Star Wars is a very simple and messy story and I don't really think it handles or incorporate these additional nuances well or in a way that adds to the characterisation or really increases the depth of the world. I haven't read these novelisations, but passages I have seen seem to lack general sense of ethical analysis in my opinion. I debate, since Han Solo's characterisation going by the original movies is a scoundrel with a heart of gold, whether I even like this additional layer of him connecting with a child murderer. Because it didn't matter to Anakin whether a child was a child soldier or not in the end, whether they were armed or completely defenceless. He cut them down like butter, from the Sand people's kids to the little, unarmed kids hiding in the Council Chamber who didn't have much training other than meditation at best. In the end, Anakin didn't "vent his anger on the ones who killed [his mother]", he vented his bloodlust, frustrations and fears on everyone from babes to the elderly. "Not just the men, but the women and the children". This passage in the example feels like it is in a way trying reframe Anakin's actions as more "relatable" and "only human" than they are to the point Han Solo and Leia have to debate the topic in a way that feels deliberately simplified. "What he did wasn't evil, it was human" feels like such a wrong-headed statement to make and reflects poorly on Han's characterisation here in my opinion here.
One begins to wonder if Leia was right to fear. Considering how her son did go through a long-term fascist phase, perhaps the Skywalkers are cursed, at least by uninspired writing. While it's interesting to see Leia's perspective of "cursed blood" challenged, I'm not sure that I like the way they executed it. Ultimately, Anakin killed kids in a massacre. I don't really see that as just a revenge, I see that as malicious to the point it kills sympathy. The writers barely want to deal with the ethical quandary this leaves TCW!Anakin other than not focusing on it or trying 'humanise' and 'tweak' his actions with passages like this. I say Leia was right, Anakin by adulthood was selfish and cruel, and many things he did were evil. He may have been human, and I could understand Leia seeing that as liberating since she built him up at the ultimate boogeyman, but the execution and tone of this passage just comes across as weirdly apologist for a child murderer. But I suppose Star Wars has always had this problem ever since it chose to awkwardly delve into Anakin's backstory. In all honestly, I find a lot of the writing decisions in the Prequels really damage Anakin's character in general and open up flaws even with the Originals.
As for the vulnerable position of Palpatine placed himself in and the Jedi Temple massacre, from my understanding Anakin was actually quite key. Palpatine put himself in a vulnerable position to turn Anakin, and Anakin fell for it and essentially saved him from Mace. Next, Anakin as a trusted Jedi Knight with a seat on the council was able to walk up to Temple with an army without scrutiny, where otherwise an army of clones marching forward in the night would cause suspicious and make the Jedi enact all their security measures. Anakin’s had extensive inside knowledge of the Temple’s defence protocols and layout and defense protocols far more accurate than the Republic Archive’s limited and outdated blueprints. Without him, it likely would have turned into a siege, which would be much less neat and have risked everything at a very sensitive moment. Ultimately Anakin bares a not insignificant blame for Palpatine's rise, even if Palpatine had power in other ways. He was a boon for his plan in a lot of ways. Of course, Han doesn't know these details, but since Vader has been with Palpatine since the Empire began and is his right-hand for decades, known for his slaughterings and securing Imperial power and now to him being a traitor to the Jedi, I remain surprised he would empathise to this extent from the character I knew in the movies. But, I suppose these novels like to add things.
With all this in mind, I must admit I am increasingly growing disenfranchised with the canon material and continuous recharacterisations, bizarre messages, retcons, and recontextualisations in this franchise.
“He should have known better.” Leia passed the electrobinoculars to Han. “He was a Jedi.” “He was a kid with a dead mother.” Han raised the electro-binoculars, but he seemed to be looking more toward the banthas than the bones. “He vented his anger on the ones who killed her. I might have done the same thing.” “That doesn’t make it right,” Leia said. “And it doesn’t make me a Sith monster, either,” Han retorted. “What he did wasn’t evil, it was human. Later, he became Darth Vader and did a lot of terrible things, but don’t forget that he’s the one who killed the Emperor.” “You’re saying you forgive him?” Leia asked. “After he froze you in carbonite?” “I’m just saying that without him, Palpatine would still be Emperor.” “You’re saying Darth Vader saved the galaxy?” Han shrugged. “Well, Anakin Skywalker. Think about it. If he’d have been a nice guy, do you think he’d have ever gotten that close to Palpatine?” Han continued to watch the banthas through the electrobinoculars. “Maybe that was your father’s destiny all along, to save the galaxy just like his mother thought he would - well, maybe not just like she thought. But he did save it.”
Tatooine Ghost by Troy Denning
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