#Anti-Rumpelstiltskin

[themattress]

THE TOP 5 BEST AND WORST DEEDS OF ONCE UPON A TIME’S MAINSTAY VILLAINS

THE EVIL QUEEN (REGINA): 1. Confronting Tinker Bell - The first wholly altruistic, no-strings-attached deed Regina does in the show’s present-day narrative happens early into Season 3, where she splits from the rest of the “Nevengers” in Neverland in order to confront Tinker Bell, who plans to murder her. Regina risks her own life, fully accepting the fact that she might die and probably deserves to, in order to convince Tinker Bell to help the rest of her group save Henry. And afterwards, she even reconnects with Tinker Bell as a friend, in full honesty. It’s a legit great moment for her.

2. Atonement on the Town Line - In order to stop Peter Pan’s out-of-control Dark Curse from killing everyone, Regina reverses the effects of her original Dark Curse so that it cancels it out. This means that she and everyone else from the Enchanted Forest will return there, and she has to give up Henry, since he and Emma will stay behind and forget everything. She does so gracefully, and even gifts Emma and Henry with good memories of a life where Emma never gave Henry up for adoption. She even accepts that she was a villain and that this painful personal sacrifice is karma for her years of atrocities. Damn it, why couldn’t she have just stayed like this!? Her character regression did no-one any favors, least of all her.

3. Evil vs. Wicked - The writing for it may not have always been the best, but everything that Regina did in Season 3′s second story arc as she and the others struggled against Zelena was totally on the up and up. Splitting Snow White and Charming’s hearts so that the latter could survive, not succumbing to her obsession with Henry and being willing to forge a new type of relationship with him, training Emma in magic, opening herself up to a new romance with Robin Hood, defending Snow from Cora’s wrathful spirit, and ultimately saving the day while also sparing her half-sister’s life in order to give her the same kind of second chance she got....all of that was good and further showed a Regina that was capable of true nobility.

4. Saving “Maid Marian” - Yeah, I know she technically killed Marian in the original timeline. But in the present day, she saved her life three times: first from a snow monster, then from the freezing curse that Ingrid the Snow Queen put her over, and then insisting that Robin Hood take her across the town line when it looked like staying in Storybrooke was making her deathly ill. Being willing to give up the man she loved to save his other love interest is heroic no matter how you slice it. If only it really had been Marian and that last one not a total con...

5. Partaking in Operation Firebird - While this one certainly could have been better, with her taking an active role in confronting her dead victims and helping them move on, I will begrudgingly admit that her signing on to Operation Firebird in the Underworld and being in support of it at all shows some measure of decency, even if somewhat selfishly motivated. -----------

1. The Huntsman - She ripped the man’s heart out, used it to control him which included raping him, and when he finally defied her as Sheriff Graham in Storybrooke, she crushed his heart, murdering him. That she completely got away with this remains a sore spot for many.

2. Razing Villages - Men, women and children were murdered. Families were torn apart. Hearts were ripped out to create new slaves. And why did she do any of this? For the lolz.

3. Wedding Crasher - I don’t mean Snow and Charming’s wedding; no no, I’m talking about the time she encountered a random civilian wedding being held on her lands without her permission and when the groom tried to apologize for this, she ripped his heart out and crushed it. Killing him in front of his friends, family and now widowed bride. What. The. Hell!?

4. The Failsafe - In the case of the curse breaking and her losing her grip on Storybrooke, Regina prepared what amounts to a magical nuke that would wipe the town and its entire population off the face of the Earth. And she was fully ready and willing to use it, only helping to stop it once it was forcibly taken away from her and used in a way that endangered Henry.

5. Casting the Dark Curse - This one was a given. Killing her own father to enact a curse that would upend the lives of countless people and trap them in a never-ending day-to-day cycle of misery where she reigns supreme over them all, just to satisfy a petty grudge? It’s pretty damn heinous. The only thing worse would be enacting a curse that forcibly merged all realms together without their inhabitants’ consent and her getting to reign supreme over the whole magical universe. But no, that would be way too stupid, so I won’t bother considering it.

RUMPELSTILTSKIN (MR. GOLD): 1. His One Phone Call - When Gold is dying from Dreamshade poisoning inflicted by Hook in the middle of Season 2, he calls an amnesiac Belle on the phone and gives her a heartfelt speech about who she really is and what she meant to him, all for the purpose of providing her with comfort and the strength to carry on living a good life in spite of her memory loss.

2. Embracing his Father - In a deadly embrace. When Peter Pan is about to kill his loved ones, Gold makes the ultimate sacrifice, using his enchanted shadow to root his father to the spot while he thrusts the Dark One Dagger in his back. When Pan tries to tempt him to stop with promises of a happy ending, Gold simply replies that he’s a villain and that villains don’t get happy endings, right before literally twisting the knife and obliterating the both of them.

3. Choosing to Forget - When the Rumple of the past forces a time-traveling Emma to reveal that his son Baelfire dies in the future, he is tempted to alter time in order to prevent that from happening even though it could risk worse things occurring. But when Emma pleads with him to respect his son’s heroic sacrifice and not potentially condemn him all over again, Rumple gives in and drinks a memory potion to forget he ever heard anything of the future.

4. Doing the Right Thing - During the Final Battle, Gold is tempted by both his mother Fiona and the embodiment of the Darkness taking Rumple’s shape to do the wrong thing for the sake of power yet again. But finally realizing he can’t bypass the price of magic, Gold refuses to give in, doing the right thing and saving his son Gideon’s heart...and Emma’s life as well.

5. Unlikely Friendships - As Rumple and later as Weaver, he forges a tight bond of friendship with both Alice/Tilly and her father, Wish Realm Hook/Rogers, looking past the latter’s resemblance to his former nemesis. This friendship ultimately leads him to sacrifice his life to save Rogers from Wish Realm Rumple, even risking not reuniting with Belle in the afterlife because he now knows you do right for right’s sake, not for the sake of a reward. ----------- 1. Killing his wife twice - In a fit of entitled rage when he discovers his wife Mliah left him for a pirate, Rumple rips out her heart and crushes it.  Later, he actually reconciles with her in the Underworld as Gold, only to end up betraying her as part of a deal with Hades - throwing her into the River of Lost Souls which erases her individual personhood; basically re-killing her.

2. Abandoning his son - The act that drove Rumple into complete madness: letting go of his son’s hand and allowing him to fall through a portal to another world, all because he never got past childhood trauma and was too scared of the possibility of living without his power. So much pain and suffering followed for so many people, all because of this one cowardly deed.

3. The Sorcerer’s Hat - Everything that Rumple / Gold did in his quest to harness the power of the Sorcerer’s Hat in the first half of Season 4, both past and present, was an example of the great cruelty and selfishness he is capable of. It was particularly bad in the present, where Gold’s recent trauma at the hands of Zelena convinced him all he can ever be is a villain, and as a result there is no line he’s not willing to cross in his pursuit of absolute power.

4. Beauty and the Domestic Abuser - Yeah, from lying to her in his wedding proposal all the way to trying to force her pregnancy to speed up so that he can kidnap her baby, Gold was the definition of an emotionally and psychologically abusive husband to Belle. Then again, given what he did to his first wife, are we really all that surprised? Stopping short of killing Belle hardly lessens the myriad of other ways he harmed her throughout their marriage.

5  The Darkest Dark One - When there was a real chance to destroy the Darkness once and for all, Gold sabotaged it, betraying the heroes and re-absorbing the Darkness that was now fully charged by the souls of all past Dark Ones, becoming the most powerful Dark One ever. And he has no remorse for it, fully accepting it as proof of the kind of selfish man he truly is.

CAPTAIN HOOK (KILLIAN JONES): 1. Neverland - It was Hook that allowed the Nevengers to reach Neverland in order to save Henry by coming back with the magic bean in the Season 2 finale, Hook who provided the ship they sailed upon, Hook who guided them through the terrain he knew well, Hook who saved David’s life, Hook who was responsible for rescuing Neal, and Hook who followed Emma’s lead at all times to see the mission through to its success. He was excellent here.

2. Bringing Emma Home - Trading his beloved Jolly Roger and his career as a pirate for a magic bean, Hook travels to NYC to restore Emma’s memories so that she can return to Storybrooke and save her family, all for a love that he fully accepts may remain unrequited. 

3. Making Amends - Several times, Hook wrongs someone, only to later redeem himself by fixing his mistakes. Aurora, Belle, David, Neal, Ariel, Ursula, Nemo, Liam...the list goes on.

4. Sacrificing his life four times - First in the alternate reality that Isaac creates in order to buy Emma and Henry time to escape, then in Camelot in order to save Snow’s life, then as Dark Hook in order to vanquish the Darkness and save Emma and her family, and finally in the Underworld where he gives up on ever finding a way to return to the land of the living so that Emma can make it out on time. For Emma and her family, Hook will truly do anything.

5. Repairing the Broken Kingdom - In the Underworld, Hook teams up with the man who killed him, King Arthur, in order to help Emma. He shows Arthur his passionate dedication and nobility, making the king rethink how he lived his life. At one point, Hook even saves Arthur from being dragged into the River of Lost Souls. Together, the two of them play an pivotal role in Hades’ downfall, and because of Hook’s influence, King Arthur goes on to become the new ruler of the Underworld who restores all the lost souls and reshapes the whole despair-ridden realm into a place of hope and healing. Understandably, Zeus deems this proof that Hook is a True Hero, and thus restores him to life so that he may reunite with his True Love, Emma. ----------- 1. Taking Ursula’s Song - A meeting with the mermaid Ursula almost reforms Hook during his villainous years, but then in order to spite her father he steals her singing voice, the thing that brought her the most joy. This leads to Ursula finally snapping and becoming a villain.

2. Killing David’s Father - Hook killed David’s father....who was literally about to be killed anyway....so that he wouldn’t tell anyone he robbed a carriage belonging to King George and killed his soldiers...even though a pirate thrives off reputation and should want his crimes to be known. Yeah, I’m not sure what the Hell went on with this one. It was so fucking dumb.

3. Stealing Aurora’s Heart - In order to restore his alliance with Cora, Hook stole Aurora’s heart while she was sleeping then manipulated her into thinking he was on her side by setting her free. It was all a ruse so that he could give Cora her heart to control her with, allowing the two of them to set a trap for Emma, Snow and Mulan. His smug attitude about pulling it off and his vicious taunting of Emma once she fell into the trap only made this evil deed worse.

4. Shooting Belle - Aboard the deck of the Jolly Roger, Belle convinces Gold to spare Hook’s life, and how does he repay her for this? Shooting her in the back so that she falls across the town line, causing her to lose all her memories. To be fair, he did want to die...

5. Pawn of Darkness - When Emma turned Hook into a Dark One against his will and even attempted to control him with the Dagger, he regressed into his old depressed nihilism and became a willing servant to Nimue’s sinister agenda, crushing Merlin’s heart to enact the Dark Curse and, once back in Storybrooke, bringing the souls of Nimue and the other past Dark Ones to the land of the living in order to exact his revenge on both Gold and Emma.

THE WICKED WITCH OF THE WEST (ZELENA): 1. Aiding Belle - In the Underworld, Belle comes seeking Zelena’s aid when she wants to be put under a Sleeping Curse so that her baby isn’t born in the Underworld where Hades can take it. Zelena gives it to her out of an unexpected feeling of empathy toward the “bookworm”.

2. Killing Hades - After Hades kills Robin Hood, his Olympian Crystal winds up in Zelena’s hands. Defying his urges for her to kill her sister Regina so that they can “have everything”, Zelena stabs Hades with it, disintegrating him and finally putting an end to his reign of terror.

3. Giving Up Her Magic - When the Black Fairy tricks her into imbuing crystals with her magic that can then be used to produce the fairy dust needed to start the Final Battle, Zelena prevents this from happening by giving up her magic altogether. After having lived in her sister’s shadow for so long, she finally was able to do something Regina was never able to.

4. Crash Course - She hits the Black Fairy with a car. That is all.

5. Motherhood - Under the name of Kelly, Zelena ended up becoming a pretty great mother to Robin / Margot, putting her wicked ways behind her and raising her daughter to be a hero. --------- 1. Her Tyranny in Oz - An obvious one. She’s the Wicked Witch of the West. Duh.

2. The Death of Neal - Tricking Neal into signing his own death warrant in order to have Rumple resurrected was a truly nasty deed, one she never shows any kind of remorse for.

3. Caging Rumple - After killing Neal, Zelena used the Dark One Dagger to enslave the newly resurrected Rumple, keeping him locked up in a cage and doing everything she could to make him feel helpless and vulnerable out of pure sadistic spite, while also kind of forcing herself on him. The trauma this caused him directly led to Gold’s relapse into pure villainy.

4. The Maid Marian Switch - Traveling back in time, Zelena kills an unconscious Marina in order to absorb her appearance into a glamour charm, making herself appear to be her. Returning to the present with Emma and Hook, she then willfully kept Robin Hood and Regina apart and eventually getting herself impregnated by Robin....so, essentially, rape.

5. Helping to Create Dark Hook - In Camelot, Zelena betrayed the heroes and teamed up with King Arthur, which led to the scuffle where Arthur fatally wounded Hook, which led to Emma turning him into a Dark One. In Storybrooke, Zelena is the one who made Hook regain the lost memory of having become a Dark One in order to get back at Emma for kidnapping her and planning to kill her. She even takes advantage of the crisis Dark Hook creates to steal sole custody over her baby away from Regina and Robin Hood, who had previously been generous to allow her to even have a share of custody at all. It’s just all so...wicked.

#Once Upon a Time #ABC #Regina Mills #The Evil Queen #Rumpelstiltskin #Mr. Gold #Weaver #Captain Hook #Killian Jones #The Wicked Witch of the West #Zelena #Evil #Villains #Opinion #Analysis #Comparison #Anti-Regina #Anti-Regina Mills #Anti-Rumple #Anti-Rumpelstiltskin #Anti-Hook #Anti-Zelena #(Sort of) #This has been a PSA

[violetlunette]

Okay, so if you've been following me for a while and have seen my posts on the league of victim mentality—I mean villains, you may have gotten the idea that I hate “tragic” villains. This is not the case, believe it or not. I actually find villains with tragic pasts interesting. What I hate is when the “tragic” backstory is used to justify or overlook their crimes.

Warnings:

*LONG post

*Images

*Anti-Himiko Toga

*Anti-Dabi

*Anti-League of Villains

Spoiler Warnings for:

*Demon Slayer

*Bojack Horseman

*My Hero Academia

*Once Upon a Time (line or two)

*Wanda Vision (one line)

*HP (one line)

TRIGGER WARNINGS:

*Mentions murder, rape, and terrorism

Before reading, keep in mind this is an opinion piece and therefore may be a mistake or two. In other words, take it with a grain of salt.

So, to start this—basically what I said above. While my past posts suggest, otherwise I like villains with sympathetic backgrounds. The villains in Demon Slayer are among my favorites. They’re interesting as characters well as sympathetic. See, when written properly a sympathetic villain could be very entertaining. When written poorly, however, it comes off as them saying, “Look I know they’re responsible for killing a bunch of people, but you have to understand; they were sad once.”

Look, I am a person with a strong sense of justice and morals, and this tends to carry into the fiction I read. (Unless the tone prepares me, but that’s another post.) So when someone does something wrong, I expect the narrative to treat it as such. Now, of course, I’m not rigid, and I’ll have some flexibility on most things, even killing depending on the circumstances. However, I still want characters to be held to some accountability. I guess what I want is for writers to take the Bojack Horseman approach.

Whether or not Bojack is a villain is debatable, but what isn’t is that Bojack did many bad things and hurt a LOT of people. Now he has a sad backstory with abusive parents who abused him in every way but sexually. And the show never glosses over it. It states quite clearly that Bojack was hurt and uses his past to explain how he came to be the way he was so we can understand Bojack. It also makes it very clear that Bojack didn’t deserve the abuse he went through.

HOWEVER!

The creators of the show went out of their way to show and state multiple times that just because Bojack had a shitty attitude doesn’t mean it was okay for him to hurt the people he did. And more importantly, it shows that the people he hurt were people.

Princess Carolyn is a person whose feelings he took advantage of. Todd is a person who he used to make himself feel better and whose friendship he didn’t appreciate till later. Diane is a person who he hurt multiple times. Herb was a person who he betrayed and abandoned. Penny is a person he took advantage of and mentally damaged. Gina is a person he hurt and mentally scarred to the point she suffers from PTSD. Sarah Lynn was a person whose life was lost because of him.

These weren’t perfect people and, in their own way, they contributed to the situations that hurt them.Even so, in nearly all these cases they were victims of Bojack’s actions, and the show never denies or softens the blow. With Bojack, we see who he hurts, why he hurt them, and the results of his actions, most of which came from a choice HE made. Often in stories, these people would just be background filler for the villain to make them look evil, but here they’re people. Bojack Horseman also provides CONSEQUENCES for the title character. Again, Bojack hurt people and he’s held accountable. The League of Villains won’t be. Just watch. Hori has shown us in his other stories that he’ll let a villain walk after a beat down, and all will be forgiven. “But wait, Looney! Bojack Horseman is a TV Show for adults. It’s targeted at a completely different demographic! Plus, it’s a different medium altogether. It’s absolutely not fair to compare the two.” Quite right. There is quite a difference. So, let’s look at something closer to the medium, shall we? Let’s look at another anime of the same genre targeted at the same demographic; Demon Slayer.

In Demon slayer, Demons are humans transformed by a demon named Muten. Once they become demons, they often lose control of themselves and their humanity and turn into beasts that eat demons.

I’m going to use the Spider Demon arc as an example, particularly the Spider Mother.

Now, here's why Demon Slayer works for me and BNHA doesn't;

First, we see the people that the spider demon hurts and how she hurts them;

They’re not just waved off or mentioned in a line or two. We see these people frightened and hurt, begging for help before they are killed. Deaths we also get to see;

True, they weren’t main characters or even people Tanjiro and the others knew, but they were people.

Remind me, who did Dabe kill again? Can you think of any faces? Their voice? Do you know how they died? Did Dabi corner them? Or did he kill them in a burst of hellfire? Were they even aware they were going to die or surprised? We don’t know any of that. The only hint we got that Dabe’s actions hurt anyone was a reporter, but that’s it. The manga doesn’t want to focus on the people that were hurt because they want Dabe to remain sympathetic. Ultimately, his victims mean nothing.

And yet, Demon Slayer did better in making the villain sympathetic;

The Spider Demon Mother was once a human turned demon who joined Rui for protection. She was then forced to change her face and become a “mother” despite being younger than the rest.

We see that she was abused, hurt, and scared--

--So much that she longed for death.

So much so that we pitied her along with Tanjiro.

However, we knew she had to die to atone for the people she killed. There’s no cushion to her crimes; we saw her torture and kill teenagers who were just as terrified as she was. And also know that because she was a demon she had killed and eaten innocent humans regularly.

Shinobu put it best herself when facing Spider Sister; "Bitch you killed a bunch of people and expect that to be okay?" Okay, she didn’t say that. Here’s what she actually said;

Shinobu is pretty merciless here to this demon begging for help but  it’s not unwarranted. Like it or not, she has a point; 

The spider demon here killed many people over the years quite mercilessly. Nature or not, she still did it, and even if Shinobu did show mercy, there’s no evidence that the demon girl wouldn’t just eat more people when she was safe.

However, there’s the fact that the demon here really can’t help it. She was turned into a demon against her will, and her mind is clouded by demon instincts. It’s like getting mad at a cat for killing a bird. It’s sad, but it's nature.

The compromise comes from our hero. Tanjiro knows that he has to kill the demons because they’ve hurt people and will continue to hurt others. However, he still remembers that these demons are people too. So when he kills them, Tanjiro isn’t cruel, or merciless.

Tanjiro made her death as swift and painless as possible. He took no joy in it it, but did what he had to do. Because she wouldn’t stop and those kids that were killed right in front of him deserved justice. The Spider Demons were were victims but they were also killers. THAT’S why they were villains. And so, Tanjiro and Shinobu held them accountable.

Speaking of which--and lacking a better transition--One of the things I love about Tanjiro is that he never allows the villains to use the victim mentality on him. One actually tries it once;

During the sword village arc, they accuse Tanjiro of bullying the meek when said meek is a fiendish killer who spent both his human and demon life blaming his failures on others.

(Picture says it all, doesn’t it?)

How does Tanjiro respond? He calls them the fuck out.

He all but states they’re not victims but attackers. They’re the ones killing innocent people without care and refusing to take responsibility.

Tago reminds me of the meek demon. She is responsible for killing thirteen boys and several thousand people when Shiggy destroyed a city. Yet all she’s thinking about is herself.

During her entire fight with Ochako Tago is thinking of ONE person; herself. Even though thousands are dead and dying because of her. But oh, Ochako’s at fault here for not listening, boohoo! Fuck off. And before you say it, the fact that she’s a teenager only gives her so much leeway.

Ochako calls her out for this and tells her the same thing Tanjiro did.

Unlike Tanjiro, Ochako is treated like she was in the wrong, and it becomes all about poor Tago, who by the way, killed an old lady just to trick her.

See, the difference? Demon Slayer makes its villains sympathetic and accountable, My Hero Academia—like a lot of shows—doesn’t. From here on out Ochako is treated like she did wrong for not “listening” to Tago. (I’m gonna have to make a vent post about this chapter eventually.) But for now, I digress.

And while I tend to give Hori a lot of leeway in BNHA, as I know that the story is heavily influenced by editors and publishers, I know this on him. Why? Because he did it in his other story. I’m going to use the Aquarium arc as an example. Here, whale man abused the animals whom he gave human form and even killed them.

Yet in the end, it’s hinted that he’s going to be welcomed back and given another chance.

But here’s a surprise; Hori could get away with that shit here because most of the main characters are animals. Cruel, but killing is different in the animal kingdom because—as sad as it is to say—there’s a law of survival of the fittest. The animal mentality is different from a human's in a blue and orange way.

In BNHA the people being killed and doing the killing are human. There’s no blue and orange, it’s black and white. Hori can try to say it’s gray all he likes but it's not. He says the heroes are just as bad as the villains but when have we ever seen that? Have we ever seen a hero hurt an innocent? Refuse to save a person? Demand they be paid before doing their job? Nope. The worst we see is Endeavor as an abusive father, and that’s a different can of worms.

So, in conclusion;

Sympathetic villains are great when done right. It makes them engaging and can create empathy for others while showing a different POV. However, most writers refuse to hold them accountable, which can be even more dangerous than creating a villain like Maleficent or even All for One. Why? Because then the audience will use it to justify their own shitty behavior, a fear the creators of Bojack had, especially after an incident with the Rick and Morty fandom and the Mulan sauce.

The show runners of Bojack even had a character in their show flat out state,

“You know that’s not the point of the [show]--for guys to watch it and feel okay.”

“I don’t want you, or anyone else, justifying their shitty behavior because of the show.”

--Diane, Bojack Horseman, Head in the Clouds

And personally, I hate the victim mentality more than anything, especially when the characters exhibiting it have done some truly awful things.

OUAT Regina: "You’re the one who added evil to my name!"

Me: Uh, yeah! After you spent years murdering, raping, and slaughtering villages, then cast a spell that kidnapped hundreds of people and mind raped them. All because your mother—who you KNEW was a manipulative bitch—tricked an eight-year-old into telling a secret!

OUAT Rumpelstiltskin: "Why can’t I have a happy ending?" (Paraphrasing)

Me: Because you caused nearly everything that went wrong in the show and emotionally manipulative and abusive, controlling bastard.

OUAT Zelena: "Sister, why can’t we be BFFs?" (Paraphrasing)

Me: Many reasons, but the biggie is that you raped her boyfriend and eventually got him killed.

OUAT Mary-Margret and David: "Oh, our daughter hates us because we lied."

Me: Uh, there's also the fact you kidnapped an unborn baby from her mother. Then filled her with "darkness" that made it so every choice she made would result badly for her, then sent her to another dimension to die. Oh, and you did that just so you could manipulate your daughter's future instead of letting her have free will! (And how did that work out, btw? Oh, right. She became a thief and went to jail, all “without” darkness in her.)

(Note: Please don't misunderstand, the OUAT actors did a great job, but the writing failed the characters.)

WandaVision Monica to Wanda: “They’ll never know what you gave up.”

Me: Oh poor baby, Wanda had to give up a fantasy family that she literally made up and could create literally anywhere else to set a town free that she mentally enslaved to play out her TV fantasies. Something she knew she did because the government told her so when they came to save them! Wanda mentally tortured a town of innocent people for a year just so she could have her fantasy family life. And no! Her past doesn’t make shit like that okay.

HP Snape: "Why didn’t Lily love me?"

Me: Because you never viewed her as a person but as your dream girl. Also, Lily knew that you looked down on anyone with muggle blood to the point you joined the magical Koopa Klan. (You all know what I mean.) And Lily told you that to your face!

Do you see my point? I could come up with more examples but this post is long enough. The sad backstories of villains are supposed to help the audience understand so we can prevent ourselves and others from ending up like them. They are NOT supposed to be an excuse for their actions or a justification to wipe the slate clean. But that’s what most writers tend to do nowadays, which is why I prefer my evil for the luz villains. They’re fun, entertaining, and interesting, and they don’t waste time making excuses.

Does this mean I want the BNHA villains to die? No. I mean, I won’t cry or anything, but I’ll call it even if they go to jail for a couple of years and spend their lives repenting afterward.

And you know what? I can live with it when fans do stuff like this because that’s what fandoms do. It’s a whole different story when the creators do it as they should know better.

It’s like when a kid says, “fuck you” and when an adult says it. Sure, it’s insulting and infuriating but it's just kids being kids, so you blow it off. If an adult does it, that’s a whole different story as they know the meaning and ramifications of that word.

Anyway, this is long enough, so I’ll end this here.

#Ugh #going to get the bnha images was hard #that chapter made me so mad #but hopefully I explained myself well #demon slayer #demon slayer meta #tanjiro kamado #spider demon #Bojack Horseman #bnha #mha #bnha meta #anti himiko toga #anti league of villains #anti dabi #anti regina mills #anti rumpelstiltskin #anti zelena #accountability #sympathetic villains #victim mentality #anti victim mentality #vent #vent post #take with a grain of salt

[dylanconrique]

do people really ship rumpbelle?? i have to know.

#caly lb ouat #ouat rewatch #2x04 #I LOVE EMILIE DE RAVIN AND HER BELLE BUT GOD I CANNOT STAND THIS BEAUTY AND THE BEAST STORY #IDGAF I HATE RUMPLE #like... i get that he has a traumatic past #but i'm sorry he doesn't turn more human as the show progresses #he remains a beast and continues to do heinous things throughout the entire 6 seasons (yes ik there are 7 but that last one doesn't count) #normally i'm all for self centered villain's but rumpelstiltskin just gets under my skin #anti rumbelle

[piracytheorist]

Think he might need a bingo card of his own but Killian Jones for character opinion bingo, and as a bonus, anything on Rumple?

Aight, red for Killian and green for Rumpelstiltskin!

For Killian, I don't think I even need to explain. Pictures are worth a thousand words.

(In a way, I do find Rumpelstiltskin's appearance great as well. But I couldn't describe it as "cool" more like... idk, elegant and to the point. Yes, even as a scaly man)

Everyone but me is wrong about Killian, always, ever. No-one understands him the way I do <3

No but seriously, considering how many people were SO wrong when analyzing his character, and how almost criminally out of character he is in AU fics (which I get it's kinda the point to change some stuff, but when you're making a brand new character without any similarities to the original and just name him "Killian Jones"... and that happens a SHIT TON in the fandom... yeah) or even CANON fics... I don't doubt I'm in a greatly small minority for my own views about him. Especially since I was actually surrounded by people whom I agreed with regarding to his writing in s7 (and we were already few in the wider Hook fandom, and also hated by most because how dare we enjoy a version of Hook growing as a character without Emma amirite) and then my opinion and their opinion about the ending differed completely to the point I felt I was alone in the world.

And yes, only my opinion is right. No I will not elaborate.

(For practical reasons, I am joking about the "right" thing. But Killian and Gold reconciling the way they did in the last few episodes was a betrayal to Killian's character and arc and I will fucking die on this hill)

Rumpelstiltskin had wasted potential because again I will die on the hill that he shouldn't have been turned into a "hero" character. They should've let him stay a morally gray character and fucking stick to it. Instead they had him jump from good guy to bad guy because the plot wanted him to be to then good guy again because Belle begged him to. I could kinda understand his relapse in the first part of s4 but it got tiring very quickly after that, and I think even Robert Carlyle got tired of that too. I've got to say that the episode "Lacey", though I have some thoughts about the flashback parts, was one of my favourite episodes of s2 simply because Gold went like "Fuck it" and beat that Keith or what is name was because he'd pissed him off (I mean, I don't condone beating, much less because the guy kissed the woman you love. But it was interesting storytelling). And then Lacey was into it and he kept going and like, this was who Gold just was. His dynamic with Belle was stunted because even if Gold wanted to do good, he was the kind of guy who got too easily corrupted by power and simply kept going after it and Belle kept going like "I can fix him". I'd rather a couple like Gold and Lacey, where they're not the villains of the story, but will help the "good guys" because of their ties to them and will absolutely go to distances the "good guys" won't. But anti-heroes was too much for A&E to handle and the fandom to accept, gotta woobify Rumple Bumple any way we can.

If they were real, either Hook or Gold, yeah I'd be terrified of them. I think we all would, and we understand that as much great characters as they make, they have killed in cold blood without any remorse, so. Blorbos they may be, and they're fun. But real life is different.

As I said, Killian is blorbo. It's been seven years that I've been a certified HookerTM and I still fall asleep making up fanfic with him in center. He'll probably be my biggest blorbo to ever blorbo.

The thing with Killian, as is connected to "didn't get enough screentime" is that he is indeed deeper than he looks, but that was only an issue of limited screentime. Us Hookers had to pick up the scraps the writers gave us and the PRECIOUS bits Colin was kind, talented and devoted enough to give us. In order to understand why he makes remarks about his appearance all the time, you have to notice the moments when he focuses on what he hates about himself; but if you skip that or just miss it, you think he's just self-centered like that. And the writing and limited screentime - by himself at least, not when he was under Emma's shadow - didn't help with that.

I've projected so much of my own shit on Killian. My self doubt, my imposter syndrome, my loneliness, some other issues that I'm not ready to share here... yeah, a lot. He's a good receptor for that, I gotta give him that :D

Done dirty by fans?? Killian and Rumpelstiltskin?? More likely than you think! From both sides too. Hook fans adoring the version of Killian who was uwu and pure and only existed for Emma's story, and hating on Rumpelstiltskin because he did bad things I guess. And for being a misogynist, apparently. And Rumpelstiltskin fans woobifying him and turning him into only a victim who had no choice in the evil things he did (and s5 did not help with the whole Dark One manifestation feeding you bad thoughts thing) and hating Hook for making sex jokes and being provocative I guess. And for being a misogynist, apparently.

So you've got two morally gray characters with excellent dynamic both on their own and ESPECIALLY together (the rivalry between the two was my TOP favourite dynamic on the show, way above Captain Swan and KnightRook... that is, until 7x18) with fans who victimize them and turn them into lovesick caricatures of themselves and the other bad guy is a misogynist!! Because that's the only way for a character to be proven bad!! MISOGYNY I TELL YOU!!

... The ouat fandom was an experience. Years will go by, fandoms will come and go, but it's the ouat fandom wank that will stay with me.

Probably explained above why Killian didn't get enough screentime. Technically, he did. From s3 onward, he appeared in every single episode, had his fair share of centric episodes, but when so little of his screentime is focused on him as a character and most of it being the writers trying to pacify the haters and prove that he's not the monster they're making him out to be, everything falls apart. That was a big problem with ouat, in general. I feel it was mostly in s7 where that was dropped, where the writers simply said fuck it and didn't care to pander to audiences anymore and just wrote what they wanted to write. Grand example, the Ruby x Dorothy ship that came out of nowhere to placate the people who were asking for LGBTQ+ representation. Then in s7, they wrote Curious Archer and it just fit in so naturally into the story and theme because they weren't pressuring themselves. And so, considering they were constantly trying to prove Killian's honor and maturity in regards to his relationship to Emma, so much of his screentime was wasted when it could have been used more appropriately. Like, the crumbs I talked about above? Make them a whole package, and that would prove the point they wanted to make anyway. But A&E were too proud in their own abilities as writers to even consider that, I guess.

Gold was a horrible person and you can fight me on that. He was an interesting character that I loved seeing on my screen... at least until his characterization took the plunge. But he was a clear example of a bullied, humiliated victim who, once he took a position of power immediately began abusing it and holding onto it for dear life. People kept mentioning how he stopped the Ogre Wars but a) that wasn't important enough to his narrative to show on screen and that says something and b) he used it as an excuse to be an asshole and to keep abusing his power, so it doesn't help? Upon losing Baelfire, his one goal became to go find him - but only as long as he kept his power. The seer confirmed he will meet him again, so he waited as long as it took - literal centuries because he wanted to find the way that would ensure he'd have both his son and his power. That power being the very thing he lost his son for, by the way. If that isn't a sign about how weird his priorities were, Idk what else to tell you man.

Yes I am mentally ill about Killian, if my seven plus years of stanning that developed into a love for Colin that I have paid real money to see from up close didn't clue any of you in XD

I circled the "part of a dynamic" one cause as I said, for almost the entire duration of the show, the rivalry between Gold and Hook was my top favourite dynamic. Sadly I didn't get that much, and I got grossly disappointed by the end, but what little I got (minus the ending, yes I am still bitter) I loved and I treasure.

Gold got too much screentime in the manner of the whole ping-pong he did between "hero" and "villain". I mean, it wasn't like they would dare sideline Robert Carlyle, but he got too many and repeated arcs that it got tiring even for me, who enjoyed his presence on my screen. If he had gotten a bit less of it, or a bit more balanced between all characters (same for Emma and Regina, they both suffered from repeated storylines and development arcs), I think they could have handled his gray morality better.

ALMOST got three lines there, lmao. BING!

#character opinion bingo #Killian Jones #Rumpelstiltskin #anti-rumple #just in case #ouat #ask and ye shall receive #priscilla9993 #blorbo bingo

[moonlightdancer26]

My predicted ratings of Taylor Swift’s songs in her upcoming album The Tortured Poets Department:

(hey, so basically to anyone who isn’t a Swiftie, this post is gonna make zero sense to you so just ignore this lol)

1. Fortnight — 5/10, I genuinely don’t think I’ll like it, maybe it’s bc the AI version on tiktok isn’t my style at ALL and kinda ruined it for me. Plus the title doesn’t stick out at all and I’m so sad that this song is track 1, esp considering her most recent album Midnights had an iconic opening track.

2. The Tortured Poets Department — 8/10, I always LOVE her title tracks and I’m so excited for this one.

3. My Boy Only Breaks His Favourite Toys — 7/10, the title doesn’t really stick out to me but I feel like it’s gonna end up being an amazingly catchy song. Negative points for the easy rhyme. (“boy” “toy”)

4. Down Bad — 10/10, I’M CLAIMING THIS SONG IDC IDC, I HAVE SUCH HIGH HOPES

5. So Long, London — 10/10, I’m actually terrified to listen to this song bc not only is it TRACK FIVE, but I know for a fact that I’ll sob. I’M SO EXCITED AND SCARED.

6. But Daddy I Love Him — 5/10, not too bad not too good, love the Little Mermaid reference but idk something tells me that I won’t vibe with this song

7. Fresh out the Slammer — 6.5/10, the title’s interesting and I have no idea what to expect

8. Florida!!! — 4/10, hate to say it but I feel like this might be my least favourite

9. Guilty as Sin? — 10/10, ALSO CLAIMING THIS SONG, I’m so excited for this omgg

10. Who’s Afraid of Little Old Me? — 6/10, I feel like the lyrics are gonna be similar to her song Anti-Hero, which makes me super happy, but I’m deducting points for the painfully corny title.

11. I Can Fix Him (No Really I Can) — 9/10 for relatability reasons. Like damn Taylor thanks for calling me out. But also there’s a SLIGHT possibility that this song is about M*tty Healy and I am simply very concerned about that.

12. loml — 7.5/10, I just KNOW it isn’t just gonna stand for “love of my life.” Taylor’s too much of a genius to use that abbreviation for its common meaning.

13. I Can Do It With A Broken Heart — 7.5/10, -2.5 points for the corny title, but I do expect to cry when I hear this song, and well, who doesn’t love songs that make you want to rip your hair out?

14. The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived — 9/10, I saw someone on tiktok say there’s a correlation between this and the story of Rumpelstiltskin and it blew my mind. I have high hopes for this

15. The Alchemy — 9/10, manifesting that this sounds like The Archer and has parallels to Invisible string (“a single thread of gold tied me to you”) 🙏🏼🙏🏼

16. Clara Bow — 9/10, I just know this song is gonna be interesting and addicting as hell

On April 19, I’ll reblog this post after I listen to the full album and I’ll confirm or deny these predicted ratings. If anyone wants to join in on this, go ahead!

#i saw swifties doing this on tiktok so why not jump on the bandwagon #taylor swift #the tortured poets department #to my non-swiftie followers: *whispers* it’s ok.. just scroll past.. you didn’t see anything..

[girlactionfigure]

Ok, another "biggie" - this time on German Jewish life from the Enlightenment to the rise of Nazi rule.

The German Enlightenment began around 1650 when Germany was a group of absolutist kingdoms (Prussia, Hamburg, Bradenburg, Pomerania, etc.) 

The rulers of these kingdoms realized it was not economically feasible to constantly expel their Jews, who had proven to be a valuable “commodity” wherever they were tolerated.

So, the expulsions slowed, but anti-Jewish attacks remained.

One infamous German mob attack took place in 1699 against the Jewish Quarter of Bamberg. As the mob attacked, one Jew poured a basket of ripe plums on top of them. For some reason, this caused panic among the rioters, who fled. This bizarre event is still commemorated every 29th of Nisan as the Zwetschgen-Ta’anit (“Prune-Fest”).

The 1700s in Germany saw the “reforms” of Frederick II, the king of Prussia (who Hitler would later call a “heroic genius”). 

Frederick II felt his kingdom had “too many Jews.” But rather than expel them, he wanted them to essentially “make themselves useful” on the Polish border engaging in trade. 

Beginning in 1750, Frederick II issued various anti-Jewish edicts aimed at keeping the Jewish population to an absolute, fixed minimum. He named a small number of “protected” Jewish families who could stay in specific cities provided they abstain from future marriages lest they "transform it into complete Jerusalem."

In the 1760s, Frederick II also issued edicts precluding Jews from various occupations. Then came the oppressive taxation. Frederick II would not permit Jews to fight in the Seven Years War – instead, he required Jews to pay extraordinary sums to fund his war while keeping the Jewish community poor.

Decades after Frederick II, however, in 1812, Prussia became the first German state to grant citizenship to its Jews. 

However, the problem of the European “Enlightenment” was that “full rights” for Jews came with the condition that they discard all that made them Jewish. In other words, you could be accepted as a German citizen or you could choose to remain a Jew. You couldn’t be both.

Of note, 1812 was also the year the Brothers Grimm published Rumpelstiltskin. This treasured fairy tale along with various others by the Brothers Grimm, including Little Red Riding Hood and Hansel and Gretel are loaded with thinly-veiled antisemitism. Other works by the Brothers Grimm were not so subtle. Antisemitism was the express theme of their stories The Jew in the Brambles, The Jew Among the Thorns, and The Good Bargain.

In fact, in Nazi Germany, all German households were required to own a copy of the “sacred” Brothers Grimm tales, and schools were required to use their antisemitic stories as educational literature.

1817 saw the rise of the Reform Judaism movement, which was intended both to "modernize" Judaism and make it palatable to German Christians. 

Some German Christians, however, were not impressed by these assimilation attempts.

Have you ever said the words, “hep hep hooray?” Well, I’m sorry to tell you that phrase has antisemitic origins. 

During the series of “Hep Hep” riots in 1819, violent anti-Jewish mobs used “Hep Hep” as their rallying cry. The term had a double meaning. It was an acronym for the Latin phrase “Hierosolyma est perdita” meaning “Jerusalem is lost” and said to taunt Prussian Jews. It was also what German sheep-herders yelped to their sheep to keep them in order. Basically, the phrase came naturally to Prussians who hated Jews, and it was even used more than 100 years later by Hitler’s stormtroopers when they went on the prowl for Jews.

Despite widespread antisemitism, the bilateral efforts of German Enlightenment thinkers and Jewish assimilationists led ultimately to the Revolution of 1848, when all German states proclaimed Jewish emancipation.

Again, however, any gains by the German Jewish community were always met with antisemitic backlash.

One of Germany’s most famous composers, Richard Wagner, was a virulent antisemite and one of Hitler's inspirations. 

In 1850, Wagner began speaking out against what he called “Jewish decadence” and influence in music. Wagner was one of the original faces of racist antisemitism in Germany such that “Jewish blood” was all that mattered for that person to be worthy of scorn and to be considered "dangerous" to "pure" German blood. 

Wagner would later write, “I hold the Jewish race to be the born enemy of pure humanity and everything noble in it. It is certain that it is running us Germans to the ground.”

On November 1, 1867, all remaining restrictions on Jews’ right of residence, real estate purchase, and choice of profession were abolished in the North German Confederation.

A gain for the Jewish community? Yup. So, now the backlash.

Also in 1867, the German journalist Wilhelm Marr coined the phrase “antisemitism” for the purpose of being able to discuss Jew-hatred in “polite society.”

Then, in 1871, a German constitution was passed that granted Jews full equality.

Three cheers for … wait a minute.

Violent backlash against German Jews took-off again in 1881. First, a petition calling for the removal of all Jews from public life, containing 250,000 signatures, was delivered to the Reichstag (German parliament).

Then, the pan-German Austrian leader and virulent antisemite Georg Ritter von Schönerer developed a following where (tell me if this sounds familiar) he was referred to as "Führer," and he and his followers used the greeting "Heil!"

April and May of 1881 saw popular antisemitic riots against Jewish homes in Berlin.

While German antisemitism persisted, the 1890s and early 1900s gave way to Jews finally being able to actualize some of the promises of emancipation.

Germans looked down at the “barbaric” Ukranian pogroms that were occurring and thought themselves above such things now.

In fact, by 1912, 12 of the 100 members of the Reichstag were Jews.

On the eve of World War I (1914), antisemitism was all but a fringe political force. Though there remained antisemitic parties, they never received more than 4-5% of the vote. And more than 100,000 German Jews fought for their country during the Great War (12% higher than their population ratio).

At the war’s end on November 11, 1918, there were 20 million dead.

The Treaty of Versailles that ended the war placed all blame for the war on Germany and required Germany pay reparations to the Allies. This led to the collapse of the German economy, hyperinflation, depression, and mass discontent.

Hitler and his Nazi Party attempted to take advantage of the discontent via an unsuccessful coup attempt known as the Beer Hall Putsch on November 9, 1923. Hitler was arrested, but his prominence and popularity only increased, and in 1925 he published his raving antisemitic manifesto entitled Mein Kampf (My Struggle).

Meanwhile, the United States stepped in to try to save the German economy beginning with the Dawes Plan. Essentially, the United States agreed to provide Germany with loans with which it could pay reparations to France and Britain. Suddenly, the Germany economy thrived. The "roaring twenties" began to roar for Germany as well.

But, when the Great Depression hit in 1929, America was no longer willing or able to provide any aide to Germany. The payments stopped, and Germany took the most devastating hit of all from the Depression.

In this time of turmoil, the brash German nationalist Hitler, who could rouse crowds big and small and bend them to his will, began to gain wider public support. His blaming of the Jews as a singular "boogeyman" for all of Germany’s problems became a simple explanation for Germans to accept, and his vague promises to remake the great German empire brought him a wildly devoted fanbase.

German elections on September 30, 1930, saw the Nazis become the second-largest party in the Reichstag with 18% of the vote.

Another election took place on July 31, 1932, where the Nazis won more than 37% of the vote and became the largest political party in Germany (but still not a majority).

So, in early 1933, Hitler called for more elections and launched into an intensive and violent campaign pushing Nazism and pushing Hitler as a messianic figure who would "save" Germany.

Then, on February 27, 1933, the Reichstag was set on fire and burned down. Confusion, panic, and terror spread among the German public. The Nazis used the hysteria to their advantage.

Elections took place only days later on March 5, 1933, with an extremely high turnout of 89%. The Nazis remained the largest party in the Reichstag and made major gains after securing 44% of the vote. Meanwhile, another extreme right-wing, nationalist party allied with the Nazis (the DNVP) won 8% of the vote, in effect giving Hitler his majority.

On March 23, 1933, the German government passed the Enabling Act by a landslide, which granted the government dictatorial powers. Hitler now had the power to govern by decree.

Yet another election on November 12, 1933, sealed the deal with the Nazis receiving 92% of the vote. Germany was now Hitler’s country.

Captain Allen

#Germany #Nazis #Jews

[wormwoodandhoney]

so i've been thinking about doing rumpelstiltskin for fairy tale final girls this year, but as you may be aware, it's got some roots in anti semitism. any of my jewish followers want to weigh in? should i skip this one altogether, or would someone be interested in co-collaborating on it?

#tbd

[tomeandflickcorner]

not a mutual, just stumbled on your blog because you rb'd one of my posts, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on Belle!

(also is it okay to reblog your post asking people to send you characters to give opinions on?)

Sure, no problem!

For the most part, I did like Belle. She was pretty much based on one of my favorite Disney princesses, after all. She was a strong, smart and clever woman. It was cool how she seemed to make friends with everyone she met, too. (Grumpy, Anna, Ariel, Mulan, Merida etc.). And the friendship she developed with Killian was particularly wonderful, considering their rocky start. It spoke volumes about Belle’s ability to forgive people.

Of course, you could say she sometimes took this ability to forgive a little too far. For instance, with her on-and-off-again husband. If you still ship those two, more power to you. But for me, the fact that Belle kept going back to him again and again was nothing short of terrifying. I’m not saying it was wrong of Belle to not want to give up on Rumpelstiltskin/Gold. Because, yes, you should always try to give someone another chance. But the problem with this is that Gold didn’t WANT to be saved. Every time he was given a chance to change, even to the point where he got the Dark One’s power siphoned out of him, complete with a bleached out heart, he still chose to take that power back. He never once chose his love for her over his love of power and control. Which tells me that Belle was never his first priority. So having Belle ultimately return to being his happy little housewife was heartbreaking, and it really felt like the whole Stockholm Syndrome story that some people claim the fairy tale of Beauty and the Beast is.

I apologize for going into an anti Rumbelle tangent, but it’s hard not to discuss that when talking about Belle. Because whenever Belle was with Gold, her storyline seemed to revolve exclusively around him. It’s not hard to notice that Belle only ever interacted with the other heroes whenever she and Gold were split up. That, to me, suggests that she only had a chance to truly shine when she wasn’t with Gold. The only time Belle actually had a chance to BE Belle was when she was free from Gold’s influence. (So I probably won’t ever forgive the writing team for fridging her to benefit Gold’s season 7 storyline. Belle deserved so much better.)

Send me a character

#anti rumbelle #tagged anti to be safe #belle french

[scienter]

Almost 6 years since the Finale-that-shall-NOT-be-named and "nostalgia,curiosity,etc,etc" took me back to s2 of TVD only because of The myth,the legend,the baddest bitch of all,Katerina Petrova.Her backstory is one of my favourites on the show.Something that I noticed,something that used to bug me even before was what exactly was Klaus's problem with Katherine?She was an entirely different person back then,banished by her family,who simply wanted to be loved even though deep down she knew(self-admitted) Klaus didn't care about her at all.When she ran,she did it to save herself because she didn't want to be Klaus's sacrificial lamb.She didn't do anything to him other than,I don't know,hurt his inflated male ego and out of vengeance slaughtered her entire family, chased her for the next 500 years & even came back to gloat over her while she was dying. Why do the so-called TVD feminist fandom worship him?What is so special about him? Is it Jomo's accent that had people gravitate toward their British king because,honestly,all I can see is a self-imposed garbage and nothing else.Of course I haven't watched TO so I don't know what happened over there but to create a whole show to redeem someone who boxed up his family for over a 1000 years and want people to forgive him because he had a daughter who,I have heard,he wanted dead at the beginning,is just beyond me.Instead of wasting screen time on Klaus's self-indulgent,zero-boundaries,obsessive,one-sided chasing of Caroline and Katherine's unhealthy obsession with Stefan, they could have done so much with Elijah & Katherine.Gaaah!

I think it's the Draco In Leather Pants phenomenon:

"Draco in Leather Pants is when a fandom takes a controversial or downright villainous character and downplays their flaws, often turning them into an object of desire and/or a victim in the process."

I don't know why this phenomenon occurs, but it is off-putting. While I really enjoy multifaceted villains and stories about their humanity (e.g., Katherine Pierce, Rumpelstiltskin on OUAT, Jesse Pinkman & Walter White on Breaking Bad), I don't like it when villains are portrayed as anti-heroes without any atonement or actual redemption arcs. It's why the fandom's Draco In Leather Pants treatment is annoying (and why I never got into The Originals). Unfortunately, every fandom seems to suffer from this. It comes with the territory.

#ask #anon #ask for ts #anon for ts #reply #reply for ts #klaus michaelson #draco in leather pants

[disneycritical]

I have been seeing claims on Tumblr that fairy tales such as "Rapunzel" and "Rumpelstiltskin" are antisemitic? Is this true? Where is this information coming from?

As for the origins of the stories, it's not likely, though since the Brother Grimm adapted the stories and Christianized the original folk tales, some of the stories took on subliminal anti-Semitic references.

Like the common trope of the villain kidnapping white/blonde children is reminiscent of the anti-Semitic trope of blood libel.

-pink

[aye-of-newt]

rumpelstiltskin wasn’t stupid he was a pro-human anti-capitalist feminist who exploited the fae bylaws to help a working class woman escape crushing physical labor and secure that bag by making it extremely easy to win their bargain

#he danced around chanting his name #no way he wasn’t trying to lose that bet

[themattress]

Leora W: Queen of Bad Takes

I won’t dignify this person with any links, only responses to her numerous fallacies.

On Season 5:

I had to suffer through what I would argue was not only the worst season of the show but the worst season of any show ever: Once Upon A Time Season 5.

Not only is there no way OUAT Season 5 could possibly be the worst of the show when Seasons 6 and 7 both exist and follow it, but the worst season of any show ever? Yeah, no. 

One of the major problems with Season 5 was they seemed to be bringing in characters or shiny toys for the sake of bringing them in without thinking about how they would affect the overarching plot. When that character or shiny toy didn't amount to anything, they would abandon it because they didn't think it through.

....Are you kidding me!?  You say that’s a problem with Season 5, and not the whole show!?  Where were you for the past three seasons or the next two? This isn’t a unique problem!

How come Killian wasn't haunted by former Dark One's in Storybrooke just because Emma wiped his memory? He was still the Dark One, wasn't he?

Apparently if there’s a mental block, the former Dark Ones can’t appear.

Or how come nobody tried true love's kiss on Emma in Camelot? And how come when she and Hook did kiss in Camelot, and she was actively trying to get rid of the darkness, it didn't work?

As wretched an episode as it is, “The Price” answered this already: by the time a kiss was attempted Emma was already thrilled by the power she wielded, which is why she waffled on getting rid of the Darkness afterward, like when she tried to justify potentially keeping it and using it for good. TLK won’t work when one party is enthralled with power; just ask Belle.

What on earth did that horse do to end up in The Underworld with unfinished business?

It wasn’t always there, it’s implied that Daniel sent it there from Heaven.

(Talks about lack of follow-through and dropped plotlines and ignoring established rules)

Again, what show have you been watching all this time!? This is sadly the norm for it.

Season 4 ended with Rumpelstiltskin's heart being scrubbed clean of the darkness and Emma Swan taking up the mantle of The Dark One. This provided many possibilities. More than anything, it seemed like an opportunity to redeem Rumpelstiltskin. He no longer had The Darkness inside him, and it allowed the heroes a chance to understand and sympathize with what made him so evil in the first place. Instead, the heroes adamantly advocate for Emma but disregard a newly pure and powerless Rumpelstiltskin worthy of their time or help. Rumple becomes a hero, pulling a sword from the stone, but he relapses to Darkness in the end.

The Darkness was never what made Rumple evil. Rumple made Rumple evil. That was the whole point being proven which was already proven in the Season 4 finale but I digress.

Killian Jones becomes a Dark One alongside Emma and embraces his newfound darkness rather quickly, despite all the character's progress throughout the series. Yet, once he is no longer The Dark One, he is forgiven, redeemed, and resurrected, despite all he did.

Because he “became a Dark One alongside Emma” because Emma forced it upon him against his will, and then tried to control him by force which naturally caused his progress to crumble and him to give in. He’s forgiven, redeemed and resurrected because of his own actions to rectify his evil actions, which are done without expecting any reward, I might add.

Worst of all, Zelena has a quickie redemption in The Underworld! So does King Arthur!

Zelena’s quickie redemption was no worse than Regina’s, and while I can see the criticism toward Arthur’s I felt it made perfect sense given his previously established character.

As for the Underworld, that plot was entirely underwhelming. Hades in the movie is a fun and charismatic villain, but his interpretation on the show was weak and meh.

No, he was still a fun and charismatic villain, just in a different way than in the movie. He’s actually a lot closer to the take Jack Nicholson, Disney’s first choice, likely would’ve given.

Megara, also, was a huge disappointment. In the movie, she was a badass. She didn't need a man, she had a complex backstory, and she was willing to sacrifice herself for love. On this show, she barely exists.

This wasn’t the Disney version of Megara, though! Unlike Hades, she and Hercules had no holdover from the Disney movie; they’re just versions of the old mythological characters.

(Complains about Rumbelle being toxic because “Rumple's story has always been about redemption” and Belle’s part in it is now ruined.)

You missed the point of Rumple and of “Skin Deep”, like so many did.

Emma, a character who we know has walls up to her head, went from not being ready for a relationship to crossing moral lines to save Killian and then literally dragging her family to hell to save him.

The line-crossing was dumb, but no, she didn’t drag anyone to Hell. It was the Underworld, not Hell, and her family volunteered to go with her, they weren’t remotely “dragged” there.

Basically, they wanted to make Captain Swan as epic as Snowing, even having Emma say, "I will always find you," the Snowing motto, on her way to the Underworld. Captain Swan didn't have the juice for that, and making them epic and tragic took away what was fun about them.

No, Captain Swan did have the juice for it. This was a fine idea, it just had bad execution.

Aside from taking away from every other aspect of the series and losing their fun side, many have described Hook's behavior toward's Emma as toxic.

It was! What these fans seldom focus on is how equally toxic her behavior toward him is. They just want a simple “bad man abuses good woman” narrative in order to condemn the Captain Swan ship, which ignores Dark Emma inflicting textbook domestic abuse upon Hook.

In the case of both Rumple and Emma, when they were the Dark One, their goals were usually to protect those they loved, even if it meant crossing lines to do so. Killian told Emma he wanted to hurt her and that she was a pretty blonde distraction from his true goals of revenge.

In the case of both Rumple and Emma, they actively chose to become the Dark One to start with. Killian literally begged for Emma not to make him the Dark One and she did it anyway. And again, no mention of what Emma did to him prior to him saying those terrible things.

(Talks about Robin’s needless death followed by an awful season finale)

.....Wait, why did I even list this? She’s got me there! :P

On Redemption Arcs:

The thing is, Arthur didn't really change. He deduces that the prophecy that he would rule over a "broken kingdom" refers to The Underworld and not Camelot as he always thought. It's the destiny he's been chasing forever, so of course, he would do it.

You misread that scene. Camelot was the broken kingdom that Merlin prophesized; Merlin himself confirmed this. Arthur’s flaw was that rather than just take heroic actions naturally so that the prophecy comes to pass, he fixates on the specifics of the prophecy, particularly Excalibur, and rather than actually repair the broken kingdom he just papers over the cracks with magic sand. Hook’s actions in the Underworld showed Arthur that you are capable of making your own destiny through your own deeds, and so he accepted the Underworld as a second chance to do something positive rather than accept any sort of heavenly reward.

Making Arthur a villain was a nice surprise, but his redemption was weak. The character wasn't likable, even as a guy you love to hate. Frankly, OUAT would have been better if the characters had never gone to Camelot, but that's a rant for another time.

I object; he was totally a “love to hate” type, the issue was that he became too incompetent to take seriously, and a villainous version of King Arthur is someone you absolutely should be able to take seriously. And OUAT would have actually been better if the characters just went to Camelot and never came back to Storybrooke within the same arc. That was the problem.

Rumple's redemption was seemingly written into the series from the beginning. For the first two and a half seasons of the show, Rumple's redemption arc was picture perfect.

It really wasn’t, and out of what you mentioned only that “a half” constituted an actual redemption arc for the character...and even then, it only ended well because his son was around to inspire him to die a sacrificial death. If he hadn’t done so, he would’ve relapsed.

By Season 6, not all viewers wanted Rumple to be redeemed. He had backslid so many times. His redemption was hard to trust when it happened. His final redemption was death, which kind of fit because he had lived so long and deserved to rest. Plus, after everything he did, seeing him live would have left us questioning if he was going to backslide again.

Thanks for pointing out precisely why he just should’ve bit the bullet (again) in Season 6.

Still, it would have been better if they had leaned into his initial redemption in 3x11 and let the character grow, instead of all the unnecessary back and forth.

No, the back and forth was fine since that was a core part of his character. It only became an issue when he went forth in a specific way he couldn’t feasibly come back from, and yet the show and other characters still acted as though back was a possibility, which wasn’t realistic.

One of the unusual and refreshing things about OUAT's redemption arcs, at least the ones they did well, was that instead of going for the familiar trope of person-redeems-themself-for-lover, they did the underrated and underused person-redeems-themself-for-their-child. Killian Jones is the exception to this. (*goes on to complain about this and then say Wish Hook had a better redemption since he did it for a child*)

1. I’ve seen this bullshit logic before, and I just have to ask that if Hook is an exception, shouldn’t he be considered the “unusual and refreshing” one here since the norm on this show is redemption-for-child rather than redemption-for-lover? Did you ever think of that?

2. Hook didn’t even redeem himself for Emma, he redeemed himself because he wanted to be better and Emma made him believe that it was possible for him to be so.

3. Wish Hook’s redemption arc wasn’t inherently better just because a ship wasn’t involved.

Later, when Killian becomes The Dark One, he gives in to the darkness entirely very quickly. He's willing to send the woman he loves and her friends to The Underworld. When he chickens out of his plan because he still loves Emma, he's called a hero. How is he a hero for sacrificing himself to stop an evil scheme that he was causing? If you want to kill someone but change your mind, you aren't a hero for saving that person's life. You're just not as bad as you were before. It's noble to turn yourself over to the cops afterward, but again, it doesn't make you a hero.

First off, notice how she’s once again ignoring how/why he “became the Dark One” and how that affected him giving in. And secondly, Regina is placed higher above Hook on this redemption ranking list, and her entire redemption was only possible because she was going to sacrifice herself to stop an evil scheme that she (and she alone, unlike with Dark Hook) was causing in 2x22! They even called her a hero for doing so! If you weren’t pissed off about that, you have no business being pissed off about this unless you have an irrational bias.

Regina's backstory was truly tragic. She was abused and manipulated by her mother her entire life, culminating in the murder of her boyfriend.

That’s a sympathetic backstory, not a tragic one. The rest of her backstory was tragic.

Regina's redemption arc was not rushed. It was drawn out as we watched the character grow, realistically backslide slightly, and then, with the support of her new family, find her way to proper redemption.

“Realistically backslide slightly”!? Did you just block out what she actually did / attempted to do in 2B? That’s why many people can’t get behind the whole “support of her new family” part; because she only got a place in that family after almost murdering them all and trying to force Henry to stay hers like a possession. This is why the whinging about what Dark Hook did that got forgiven rings false, especially when that had deeper context for why it happened whereas Regina’s only excuse for her turn is “those damn heroes dared suspect me, a known mass murderer, of murdering someone! I have no other choice but to murder them all now!”

Some have argued that her redemption is more about getting what she wants, i.e., a relationship with her son, than showing genuine remorse. She doesn't want to do better because she believes it's right. She wants to do better because if she doesn't, she loses Henry. Regina may have ostensibly switched sides, but she occasionally crosses the line, such as when she stole Belle's heart to manipulate Rumple. Whether or not Rumple deserved that is debatable, but did Belle? I should think not! There are also things she's never been held accountable for, such as raping and murdering Graham. In 5x23, Regina goes so far as to call her past evil self an alter-ego known as The Evil Queen; she attempts to split herself off from that part of herself. The Evil Queen was never an alter-ego. Regina only has one personality, and she needs to own her choices.

YES. That’s all correct! So you rank her redemption so highly why, exactly?

Say what you will about Hook and Rumple, but both of their redemption arcs had them deviating from their initial goals and giving up their ill-gotten gains in order to make things right for others. Regina kept all she gained from villainy and her mission statement from right before ripping her father’s heart out to enact the Dark Curse - “I just want to be happy” - never changed. It was still all for that goal; she merely changed her methods of achieving it.

On Rumple:

I'm not badmouthing Rumple. I actually think he's pretty great; I'm a Dearie, through and through.

And therein lies the problem - far too many Dearies accentuate the positives of the character and let that define their view of him; which is a stark contrast to Robert Carlyle’s own views.

The show had a family of protagonists and two big, scary antagonists. One was The Evil Queen, the main villain of the Snow White story. The other was Rumpelstiltskin, a wild-card that left the audience scratching their heads. He was a mystery. Both characters had the potential to be the great villain of the series. Then we learned the key differences between the two. (*proceeds to say Rumple was doing it all for his son while Regina was doing it for revenge*)   Given those two descriptions, if you had to pick someone for the big bad of the series, who would you pick? I think it was supposed to be The Evil Queen, and I think the show was written with that intent.

Um, no. Absolutely not. Rumple, no matter how sympathetic you found him compared to Regina, was clearly set up as the Big Bad of the series from the pilot and subsequent episode. He was the true mastermind behind the Dark Curse, and 1x02′s end scene screamed “this guy’s even worse than Regina”, something even Henry acknowledged in 1x08, an episode that officially revealed Rumple’s status as the Dark One. Why on Earth would some random evil queen with magic powers be a bigger villain than the Dark One?

He was willing to ruin and corrupt others to do so, but he also made David a prince, and helped him wake Snow White from a sleeping curse. He was always interfering in people's lives. Sometimes he did nasty things. Sometimes he helped. He was morally ambiguous, but the story could not unfold without him. He was deeply tied to all of their lives, and many of them might never have been born nor found love without his interference.

No. There is no “moral ambiguity” to Rumple. All of his helpful actions were motivated by his own self-interest that was ultimately going toward the evil objective of getting the Dark Curse cast, which would screw over all those characters he helped be born or fall in love. And while he was behind the Savior clause, this also came along with his plan to bring magic to Storybrooke, which further screwed everyone over just so that he could get what he wants.

Well, the rumor is, Regina was supposed to be the big evil on the show. She was meant to be sympathetic, but it had not been planned to give her a redemption arc. Then, the show got a lot of flack for being "anti-adoption." They didn't want to send that message.  Lana Parilla fought for Regina to get a redemption arc on Season 2, and the trajectory of the show was changed forever.

This rumor has been thoroughly debunked by now. Adam Horowitz and Edward Kitsis actually created the show through the viewpoint of the Evil Queen, and her getting her happy ending was the true core objective from the beginning. They even called making viewers forget about all of her crimes and be furious at the heroes for not easily accepting her redemption as they logically should a “victory” and “the greatest thing ever”. Lana Parilla fought for a better relationship between Henry and Regina in Season 2; the redemption arc was always planned regardless of that happening because Regina is A&E’s pet character.

Rumple prophesized this big, Final Battle to come when the curse breaks. This was more or less forgotten after the curse, until Season 6, when the battle is fought between Emma, Rumple's mother, and Rumple's son. Basically, the Final Battle comes back around to Rumpelstiltskin. And he gets redeemed! Yea! Except that this wasn't the first time he was redeemed, nor would it be the last.

It should’ve been the last, though.  Also, the Final Battle was a retcon; in its original context he was clearly talking about the final battle against the Evil Queen, which thanks to his own interference in bringing magic to town would also draw in him, her mother, and his father!

The fact that Rumple exited the show a hero, combined with what we know about his actions and motives from the beginning would imply his character was always expected to be redeemed. And if Zelena can be redeemed, why not Rumple?

This notion she has that Zelena is more heinous than Regina and Rumple is hilarious. 

Maybe because he was, in fact, redeemed. In 3x11, Rumple sacrificed himself to save the town. He'd found love with Belle, and he'd reconciled with his son. He gave his life for them, his grandson, and everybody else in Storybrooke. Yea! He's redeemed. But wait, he's dead? Noooo!!!!That was my reaction, and likely the reaction of many fans. Rumple was a very popular character, both for those who loved him and for those who loved to hate him. He was also very useful. He was powerful, and he was clever. He understood magic, and he had pertinent information about nearly every character the leads ever came across. The show couldn't function without the man who had been puppeteering things for 200 + years, and they knew it. They needed to bring him back.

All of this is true; just felt like throwing her another bone.

Prior to his death, it seemed that Kitsis and Horowitz were setting Neal up to be Emma's True Love. It made sense from a story perspective. However, Killian and his flirtation with Emma were very popular among the fans.  The fan theory is that due to that popularity, the idea was to get Neal out of the way so they could give fans what they wanted. They didn't think Emma could end up with Killian if Neal was alive, so Neal needed to die.

Again, a thoroughly debunked theory. Neal was never being set up as Emma’s True Love, just her old flame, and the decision to kill him off had nothing to do with Emma/Hook and everything to do with Rumple and how to bring him back and spark his relapse into villainy, plus the fact that Michael-Raymond James just wasn’t feeling the show and wanted out.

Rumple had Belle, but nobody else seemed to give a flying monkey about him. All the other leads were then heroes, and he was a man who had just lost nearly everything. As the story moved forward, Rumple had fewer and fewer reasons to be good.

Oh boy, here we go. Let the Draco in Leather Pantsing commence!

Hook chose to blackmail Rumple. He threatened to tell Belle that after months of being enslaved by Zelena, the woman who killed his son, Rumple didn't give up his freedom again. And he killed Zelena. Rumple struck back, and all hell broke loose because, of course, those children couldn't play nice for five minutes.

The blackmail choice happened because Rumple was already refusing to help his supposed family and their new friend Elsa out when they needed it, and Rumple easily could’ve avoided it by just being honest with Belle. Of course, then Hook got cocky and stupidly tried to garner a second, more personal sort of favor from the blackmail, and he rightly paid the price for it.

Once the truth came out, everyone conveniently forgot that Rumple died for them, lost his son, was a slave, and that he was "family." He was in mourning, suffering from PTSD, and he had almost no support. Hook goaded him, and Rumple backslid. Instead of hearing his side or considering there may be more to the story, the heroes cast him as the villain in their lives.

First off, Rumple had backslid before Hook blackmailed him - he already had sinister plans for the Sorcerer’s Hat, and was immediately willing to cooperate with the Snow Queen. Secondly, they did not forget about any of that; Emma brought it all up in 4x08 to show support and trust for Rumple - as he was in the process of tricking her into walking to her doom, mind you. It was Rumple who showed he didn’t care about them (aside from Henry purely due to the connection to Neal); there’s no “hearing his side of the story” after learning he colluded with someone out to kill them all and had responded to his PTSD from being enslaved by gleefully enslaving someone else, Hook, and ultimately trying to murder him on top of that, which is as disproportionate a response to Hook’s initial blackmail as you can get and is going back on the terms he had already set for the blackmail he put on Hook in turn. Rumple cast himself as the villain in their lives because Rumple chose to be a villain again.

As the show continued, they continued to take that attitude with him. When something went wrong, they either tried to blame him for the trouble, or they tried to bully him into fixing it because, after all, they're "family."

Lol, most of the time he was in fact responsible for the trouble, and it’s laughable to say they tried to “bully him” when he’s the one who had all the power...again, all by his own choice.

In the end, he sacrificed himself to save his former enemy and finally got to die. It's the ultimate redemption. And it was great to see. But you know what would have been better?  If he could have come back from his first redemption and been brought back to life without losing his son, one of his main reasons to try. Then we could have seen him try, and succeed, to be better, for more than just Season 7.They could have made that happen if they really wanted to.

Sure, but they didn’t because for most of the writers and for Robert Carlyle, that wasn’t in the nature of the character. They didn’t want him to try and succeed to be better. To them, it’s like if Walter White stopped breaking bad. Given all that he’s said about the character, I doubt Robert Carlyle was even personally on board with his Season 7 redemption arc. He still played it well since he’s a professional, but if were up to him it wouldn’t have happened.

They could also have left him dead. Let him die as a hero instead of backsliding as a villain.

Admittedly, that would have been great too. Alas, it was never to be.

Even when Rumple got his final redemption, it was in defeating a version of himself from the WishRealm. Rumple was still expected to play the villain, even when he was also the hero. This character, who was built for a redemption arc, deserved better than being tossed back into the villain pile because they needed a bad guy. Sadly, it seems like that is what happened.

No, that’s not what happened. He was not “built for a redemption arc”; that was you seeing what you wanted to see. He was always supposed to be the main Big Bad and ultimately the Final Boss, regardless of how that happened. A&E did, in fact, screw him up, but not in the ways that you’re positioning. They screwed him, and many other things, up by not having a solid plan and ending point in mind, not because they didn’t have him do what you wanted.

From this book:

And there you have it...dearie.

#Once Upon a Time #ABC #Fandumb #Stupidity #Objection #Correction #Defense #Redemption #Hypocrite #Double Standards #Draco in Leather Pants #Ron the Death Eater #This has been a PSA #Anti-OUAT #Anti-A&E #Anti-Regina #Anti-Regina Mills #Anti-Rumple #Anti-Rumpelstiltskin

[icecreams0up]

healthy alternatives to "get some bitches"

-get some buddies

-cop yourself a chum

-make a mate

-go thrift shopping

-go adopt a dog

-go abort your lack of friendships (this is best applied to anti-choice assholes)

-murder that lack of self-esteem! (this is a more versatile version of the above)

-go tuck your non-existent homies into bed

-100010001010010000010 (this is best if you want them to think you're a robot)

-basedn't

-i'm friends with your dad

-tonight, tonight, the plans i make, tomorrow, tomorrow, the baby i take! the princess shall never win the game, for rumpelstiltskin is my name

#abortion mention #murder mention

[jennifersminds]

I have never encountered a relationship i hate more the rumbelle from ouat. This old ass man kidnapped a young woman, enslaved her, then stockholmed her ass into a toxic relationship for like 6+ seasons. If you ship them whatever. But the show promoting this relationship and later having her break up with him and having her shove his ass out of town (an amazing scene shadowed by the fact they caved to fan service and brought the ship back) is irresponsible and pains me to this day.

#i love this show #i started watching it when i was like 9 and it first aired #but this was horrible #antirumbelle #ouat #belle french #anti-rumbelle #anti rumbelle #antirumpelsttskin #anti-rumpelstiltskin #anti rumpelstiltskin

[violetlunette]

Another interesting detail about Regina: you know how there are some people who bully, abuse and even rape others, but then Play The Victim Card to make themselves seem like the true wronged party? Well, Regina didn't technically do that, she did something just as bad--it's more like she Played The Aggressor Card. Instead of directly calling herself a "victim", she called everyone who reacted negatively to her behavior "aggressors", portraying them as irrational and unjust, as persecutors.

"I know I killed your horse, your father, and made your childhood miserable. Okay, then made you a criminal, slaughtered innocent people and villages just to hurt you, and tried to separate you and your true love. And when all that failed, maybe I cast a tiny curse that forced you to give up your daughter as soon as she was born to save her, not allowing you to get be part of her life, changed your entire personality, and forced you to live 30 years in a life where you were miserable. But it's all YOUR fault because YOU told a secret when you EIGHT years all to a woman I knew was tricky and manipulative, therefore smart enough to get information out of a naive child. Clearly, this is all your fault! You're the made me do everything evil and even added evil to my name."

Seriously, go to hell and stay there Regina. You're right she does play the victim and aggressor card.

IF she were to blame anyone it should be her mother--who manipulated and abused her whole life and kept her trapped after being the one to actually kill Daniel, and Rumpelstiltskin, who manipulated events to make sure she cast the spell when he could have done it himself when he discovered he had feelings for Belle--not that I would have wanted that, hell I love Belle and she deserved so much better, but I digress.

However, Regina still chose her actions. Others may have played a part in it, but SHE made the choices in the end, knowing where they would lead. But heaven forbid she be held accountable, right?

#anti regina mills #anti evil queen #ouat critical #ouat rant #anti rumpelstiltskin #anti cora #anon reply

[justanoutlawfic]

Ayeee, constantly being reminded why I don't consider myself a Rumple stan anymore. Y'all ruined him for me. I can't say anything without being told that the heroes are horrible people and he was just doing his thing, can't be held accountable.

I hope you guys realize, you chase people away. I used to really love him but if I praise anyone who's not him or call out shitty stuff he did, I get essays about how I'm wrong.

Congrats, you're making me actively hate him.

#rumpelstiltskin #ouat #once upon a time #anti rumple fandom