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nesiacha · 2 months

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The difference in treatment between the Indulgents and the Cordeliers or Hébertistes

I have an opinion that will seem unpopular, no worries I am open to any criticism or to being corrected in the event of an error so do not hesitate to correct me. I have much more sympathy for the Hébertist faction, the exaggerators or the Cordeliers than that of Danton's Indulgents. Indeed if we exclude the Hebert case who is an indefensible man, mediocre in my eyes (I don't think I need to explain why) this is not the case for so many others. I mean Ronsin was a competent and honest administrator. Despite his mysoginism (horribly reprehensible, just look at the speech he gave concerning the execution of Gouges and Manon Roland) Chaumette could be as competent as procureur syndicale de Paris and had also generous ideas (such as banning whipping in schools, equalization of funeral rites for all, protective measures for the elderly and hospitalized). One of the most impressive cases is Momoro. Even the historian Mathiez, who nevertheless has little sympathy for the revolutionaries who were against the Committee of Public Safety in the spring of 1794, had practically nothing but praise for Momoro. He voluntarily lived in poverty and when he was tried he said he had given everything for the revolution. It was true in my eyes. Of course I understand in a certain way the repression exercised by the Committee of Public Safety (more precisely the Convention since an arrest cannot be made without its agreement, it is not a dictatorship either) when Cordeliers wanted to launch a new insurrection against the Convention ( like Momoro for example). The fact of wanting to persecute the priests did not help, not to mention the fact that they wanted stronger repression of the enemies at the risk of making the Revolution even harsher. But when we analyze, I can understand where come frome their anger. Their hatred about religion was due to the fact that not long ago, a lot of religious fanatics infantilized the people, constantly made prohibitions against them (we must NEVER accept infantilization or loss of free will for religious reasons) and atrocious repressions without counting the their wealth that they monopolized (in terms of absurd repression there is nothing but to see the Calas affair, or that of the case of Chevalier de la Barre etc…), even if there were a lot of priest and believers weren't like that . Although the Cordeliers were wrong to respond to religious intolerance by intolerance, I can agree. The same goes for the Terror. At that time France was threatened by enemies from within and without and quite a few of their enemies carried out atrocious tortures (although rotten people like Fouché, Carrier, were not to be outdone in atrocities to the point that the Committee of Public Safety recalled them immediately). Prices were increasing because of the war, so without excusing them once again I can understand their minds when they demanded ever greater repression of the Terror (even if once again it was a serious error ,a mistake and even a fault).

Let's compare to the indulgent (or Dantonists) who are caught up in financial scandals (according to for a lot of historians like Jean Marc Schiappa). Danton moved only because of the financial scandals which were beginning to erupt and did not dare to attack head-on in this period of factional clashes, he let his friends do so. Moreover, according to certain historians like Decaux if I am not mistaken, he only came back against the Hebertists because they attacked them (and they did not only have them as enemies). He is not a clean character. Let's not talk about Fabre d'Eglantine. For Desmoulins I have an unpopular opinion of him. I find him very overrated and no matter how much I tried to appreciate his historical figure (by reading the very good biography of Leuwers or the book by Joseph Andras) I cannot. I don't think that despite the fact that he is very cultured, a man who rightly think that women must have the right of vote and even a republican before his time, he is not capable of assuming an important position unlike Saint Just or Ronsin who he made fun of. And worst of all I find him hypocritical, he who demanded clemency applauded the execution of the Hebertists following a parody of justice (yes I like the Montagnards of this period but this kind of thing should never be tolerated) . He didn't say anything when the wives of Momoro and Hebert were arrested which was very serious (afterwards I don't know well if they were arrested at the same time as Lucile Desmoulins), but he didn't realize that it was going well back in his face.

The Dantonists were irresponsible in my eyes. I completely agree that it was necessary to examine each prisoner on a case-by-case basis because there were surely a large number who had nothing to do there by creating as many commissions as possible as quickly as possible and getting down to business. job right away because prison is a horrible place, even more so for innocent people. But releasing everyone without distinction immediately would have been dangerous because there were also dangerous counter-revolutionaries or spies. I mean have they forgotten that the fall of Toulon to the English was due to betrayal? The betrayal of Dumouriez, the assassinations of some deputies, etc… Where did this idea of making peace with foreign armies still occupying France come from when the French army was beginning to be victorious? Opposing a war of conquest I completely agree, but allowing one's own territory to be annexed is something else. And how dangerous would it be to leave corrupt people like Danton in power. Sooner or later, he could perhaps have given in to blackmail in view of the evidence of corruption that contemporaries have today, which would have been very dangerous for France. As a result, I never understood why the “good” indulgent ones were portrayed against the “bad” Cordeliers and Hébertists. Whatever happens for all these factions, no matter my great admiration for revolutionaries like Le Bas, Saint Just, Couthon, the fact that I am sorry like many people that Robespierre is demonized, the fact that they allowed a parody of justice against these factions is an unforgivable fault and to have allowed the execution of Marie Françoise Goupil and Lucile Desmoulins among others to consolidate this parody of justice is unacceptable. Even if I understand their states of mind because they could not afford to lose especially in this period against these different factions and contrary to what the Thermidorians put forward, the majority of the Convention was just as guilty as them, there is no excuse for this kind of behavior. Did Saint Just realize this when he said that the Revolution was frozen (even he spoke more about the consequences of this repression and that the revolution is weakened on this point) ? It would later fall on them and Elisabeth Le Bas was threatened with being guillotined for having been Le Bas' wife (some wanted to force her into a marriage with one of the Termidorians). If they had not allowed the fate of Goupil or Lucile Desmoulins earlier perhaps it would have been more difficult for the Thermidorians to threaten her. For more information in the form of a movie , I invite you to see" Saint Just ou la Force des Choses" and " la Camera explore le temps Danton, la terreur et la vertue" in English sub. These are good movies about this period.

And you what do you think ?

#french revolution #Terror #georges danton #Camille Desmoulins #Ronsin #Momoro #Cordeliers #Indulgents #History #saint just #couthon #robespierre #lucile desmoulins #Hebert #Chaumette #joseph fouché #Carrier

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fredericbrumby · 10 months

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Les couleurs de la ville.

Mur

Rue Gentil II

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orpheusmori · 11 months

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The Cordeliers Club, or what's left of it! A chunk of the monastary was torn down a long time ago to make room for the medical school. Marat, Danton, and Desmoulins sat here many days and nights. Also, Marat was originally buried in the courtyard of the abbey. Rest well, Jean-Paul.

Photos by me!

#french rev #frev #french revolution #marat #camille #danton #cordeliers

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idefilarate · 9 months

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Does anyone have any info/sources on Louise de Kéralio? Ideally English but French is good if they are online . Merci citoyens! @sieclesetcieux @orpheusmori @anotherhumaninthisworld

#frev #french revolution #louisedekeralio #Cordeliers

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monimarat · 1 year

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Madagascan bicentennial stamps

#danton #robespierre #saint just #cordeliers #frev #frev stamp collection

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postcard-from-the-past · 4 months

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13th-century Cordeliers Convent in Châtillon-sur-Seine, Burgundy region of France

French vintage postcard

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figuresinthehaze · 2 months

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What a talented young man. Surely nothing bad happens to him

#camille desmoulins #Desmoulins #vieux cordelier #lucile desmoulins #maximilien robespierre #robespierre #frev #antoine saint just #saint just #french revolution #frev art #my art

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strangestcase · 2 months

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”elevated horror” this and that. you’ll never be Utterson looking at his best friend’s lifeless body with a mixture of sorrow and relief and sighing “Justice has been made” out of breath, voice cracking, eyes heavy .at the end of Le Testament Du Docteur Cordelier

#jekyll and hyde #the strange case of dr jekyll and mr hyde #dr jekyll and mr hyde #le testament du docteur cordelier

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frankfosterphotography · 4 months

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vault and statue,

Les Cordeliers, Saint-Emilion, France.

#les cordeliers #saint-emilion #france #interior #vaults #statue #photographers on tumblr #original photography #monochromatic #historic #frank foster

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slashericons · 4 months

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Cordelia Chase — Buffy the Vampire Slayer, S01E11 (1997)

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eleancrvances · 1 year

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all the talk about how utterson might have reacted to reading lanyon and jekyll’s letters got me Thinking once again about le testament du docteur cordelier (jean renoir's unauthorized, but surprisingly faithful, 1959 adaptation), where utterson/joly finds hyde/opale still alive and hears his confession. so we get to see this man, who has never lost his cool and gentleness once during the movie, just rage and deny and accuse and rationalize until he can't anymore and he simply loses it. and then we get to see him look at hyde dead in the eyes, disgusted and unforgiving but still calling him "jekyll, my friend".

(and hyde’s reaction to all this is saying “the hurt caused by your anger gives me hope”...)

#not enough people have seen this adaptation must i alone be burdened with the knowledge of joly and cordelier #and all the other things renoir got right #jekyll and hyde weekly #jekyll and hyde #le testament du docteur cordelier #by me #gabriel utterson #henry jekyll #edward hyde

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nesiacha · 10 days

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#My favorite is Momoro #On my top three of favorite revolutionnary #Even if I admit his bad side #Dislike hightly Hebert but everyone has their own tastes #frev #french revolution #hébert jacques rené #Ronsin #Chaumette #momoro #cordeliers

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fredericbrumby · 8 months

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Couleurs urbaines.

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mawita · 9 months

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I KEEP FORGETTING TO POST THESE BOYS

JEKYLL AND HYDE PONIES, AND YES, LORE EXISTS

Hyde on his own, and basically just a blog post with thoughts and process notes under the cut!

Personal Notes

Exams have been killing me, and i am, finally done!! Wooo!! Yeah, time for a break year, i hope I'll have more time for art :))

Anyways yeah, silly Jekyll and Hyde ponies, this is my biggest fixation here over the last year, its killing me, could genuinely turn into a special interest at this rate.

anyways, these two came about out of a want to illustrate book Jekyll and Hyde, but humans just, hurting me to draw atm, so ponies instead.

Design Notes

Shape! I wanted Jekyll to feel Big and Bombastic, fat Jekyll rights (although, I admit, I don't think I made him fat enough here, I'll out more effort into that in later pieces/sketches. I hope to develop their shape specifically a lot.) In contrast, of course as described in the book, Hyde is smaller, younger, and sharper. I gave him the teeth from the 1931 movie, cuz that's honestly the only part of that design I like apart from the flesh that starts to melt at the end of the movie (cough cough, racist charicature)

Colors! Admittedly a bunch of this was simply done because i thought it looked good. Jekyll feels inherently blue to me, and Hyde being toxic green just felt appropriate. But also, having them purely be cold would not be the most balanced pallete. I wanted to give them both warmth. Jekylls warmth comes from his Vest and Cravat, clothes he dons as an expression of his class and social standing. He cares a lot about his position in the upper crusts of London's society, and plays into his role with care. The colors on him that stand out the most, his warmth and his sociability, is performative in its expression. Hyde's only warmth is in his yellow-red eyes, from living an (exaggerated) version of his authentic self.

Cutie Mark! Potion bubbles mmmmmm :)). Important note tho! The cutie Mark DOES NOT CHANGE between the forms! Hyde is Jekyll! A truly fucked up Jekyll, a Jekyll most likely under the influence (in this au canon: definitely under an influence)

Also fun fact! These pony designs are based on my pony town designs of Jekyll and Hyde :3

Anyways yeah, when I've settled into my new apartment I'd like to explore these two buggers a bit more. Strangely enough, I believe the my little pony friendship is magic universe has some deep implications for the Jekyll and Hyde story, that I am very grasped by.

That ends it for this post, if you got this far, thank you for indulging me!!

#Also reminder: Jekyll does NOT have DID #Hyde does NOT represent OCD or Intrusive thoughts #Le Testamente du Docteur Cordelier is one of the greatest adaptations ever #Dr Jekyll and Sister Hyde is hilarious and I love it #Aaaaaaaaaand hit send #Jekyll and Hyde #Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde #Jekyll #Hyde #the strange case of dr jekyll and mr hyde #my little pony #mlp #oc #oc art

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idefilarate · 9 months

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Is there a consensus about whether Danton and Desmoulins were at the Champ de Mars during the massacre ? I feel like I’ve read conflicting opinions on this but I could be misremembering. @frevandrest @orpheusmori

#frev #camille desmoulins #danton #champ du Mars #Lafayette #petition #Cordeliers

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monimarat · 1 year

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1790 Cordeliers token, #447

#Danton #frev #Cordeliers #Histoire Numismatique De La Révolution Française Hennin 1826

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