#Indulgents

[nesiacha]

The difference in treatment between the Indulgents and the Cordeliers or Hébertistes

I have an opinion that will seem unpopular, no worries I am open to any criticism or to being corrected in the event of an error so do not hesitate to correct me. I have much more sympathy for the Hébertist faction, the exaggerators or the Cordeliers than that of Danton's Indulgents. Indeed if we exclude the Hebert case who is an indefensible man, mediocre in my eyes (I don't think I need to explain why) this is not the case for so many others. I mean Ronsin was a competent and honest administrator. Despite his mysoginism (horribly reprehensible, just look at the speech he gave concerning the execution of Gouges and Manon Roland) Chaumette could be as competent as procureur syndicale de Paris and had also generous ideas (such as banning whipping in schools, equalization of funeral rites for all, protective measures for the elderly and hospitalized). One of the most impressive cases is Momoro. Even the historian Mathiez, who nevertheless has little sympathy for the revolutionaries who were against the Committee of Public Safety in the spring of 1794, had practically nothing but praise for Momoro. He voluntarily lived in poverty and when he was tried he said he had given everything for the revolution. It was true in my eyes. Of course I understand in a certain way the repression exercised by the Committee of Public Safety (more precisely the Convention since an arrest cannot be made without its agreement, it is not a dictatorship either) when Cordeliers wanted to launch a new insurrection against the Convention ( like Momoro for example). The fact of wanting to persecute the priests did not help, not to mention the fact that they wanted stronger repression of the enemies at the risk of making the Revolution even harsher. But when we analyze, I can understand where come frome their anger. Their hatred about religion was due to the fact that not long ago, a lot of religious fanatics infantilized the people, constantly made prohibitions against them (we must NEVER accept infantilization or loss of free will for religious reasons) and atrocious repressions without counting the their wealth that they monopolized (in terms of absurd repression there is nothing but to see the Calas affair, or that of the case of Chevalier de la Barre etc…), even if there were a lot of priest and believers weren't like that . Although the Cordeliers were wrong to respond to religious intolerance by intolerance, I can agree. The same goes for the Terror. At that time France was threatened by enemies from within and without and quite a few of their enemies carried out atrocious tortures (although rotten people like Fouché, Carrier, were not to be outdone in atrocities to the point that the Committee of Public Safety recalled them immediately). Prices were increasing because of the war, so without excusing them once again I can understand their minds when they demanded ever greater repression of the Terror (even if once again it was a serious error ,a mistake and even a fault).

Let's compare to the indulgent (or Dantonists) who are caught up in financial scandals (according to for a lot of historians like Jean Marc Schiappa). Danton moved only because of the financial scandals which were beginning to erupt and did not dare to attack head-on in this period of factional clashes, he let his friends do so. Moreover, according to certain historians like Decaux if I am not mistaken, he only came back against the Hebertists because they attacked them (and they did not only have them as enemies). He is not a clean character. Let's not talk about Fabre d'Eglantine. For Desmoulins I have an unpopular opinion of him. I find him very overrated and no matter how much I tried to appreciate his historical figure (by reading the very good biography of Leuwers or the book by Joseph Andras) I cannot. I don't think that despite the fact that he is very cultured, a man who rightly think that women must have the right of vote and even a republican before his time, he is not capable of assuming an important position unlike Saint Just or Ronsin who he made fun of. And worst of all I find him hypocritical, he who demanded clemency applauded the execution of the Hebertists following a parody of justice (yes I like the Montagnards of this period but this kind of thing should never be tolerated) . He didn't say anything when the wives of Momoro and Hebert were arrested which was very serious (afterwards I don't know well if they were arrested at the same time as Lucile Desmoulins), but he didn't realize that it was going well back in his face.

The Dantonists were irresponsible in my eyes. I completely agree that it was necessary to examine each prisoner on a case-by-case basis because there were surely a large number who had nothing to do there by creating as many commissions as possible as quickly as possible and getting down to business. job right away because prison is a horrible place, even more so for innocent people. But releasing everyone without distinction immediately would have been dangerous because there were also dangerous counter-revolutionaries or spies. I mean have they forgotten that the fall of Toulon to the English was due to betrayal? The betrayal of Dumouriez, the assassinations of some deputies, etc… Where did this idea of making peace with foreign armies still occupying France come from when the French army was beginning to be victorious? Opposing a war of conquest I completely agree, but allowing one's own territory to be annexed is something else. And how dangerous would it be to leave corrupt people like Danton in power. Sooner or later, he could perhaps have given in to blackmail in view of the evidence of corruption that contemporaries have today, which would have been very dangerous for France. As a result, I never understood why the “good” indulgent ones were portrayed against the “bad” Cordeliers and Hébertists. Whatever happens for all these factions, no matter my great admiration for revolutionaries like Le Bas, Saint Just, Couthon, the fact that I am sorry like many people that Robespierre is demonized, the fact that they allowed a parody of justice against these factions is an unforgivable fault and to have allowed the execution of Marie Françoise Goupil and Lucile Desmoulins among others to consolidate this parody of justice is unacceptable. Even if I understand their states of mind because they could not afford to lose especially in this period against these different factions and contrary to what the Thermidorians put forward, the majority of the Convention was just as guilty as them, there is no excuse for this kind of behavior. Did Saint Just realize this when he said that the Revolution was frozen (even he spoke more about the consequences of this repression and that the revolution is weakened on this point) ? It would later fall on them and Elisabeth Le Bas was threatened with being guillotined for having been Le Bas' wife (some wanted to force her into a marriage with one of the Termidorians). If they had not allowed the fate of Goupil or Lucile Desmoulins earlier perhaps it would have been more difficult for the Thermidorians to threaten her. For more information in the form of a movie , I invite you to see" Saint Just ou la Force des Choses" and " la Camera explore le temps Danton, la terreur et la vertue" in English sub. These are good movies about this period.

And you what do you think ?

#french revolution #Terror #georges danton #Camille Desmoulins #Ronsin #Momoro #Cordeliers #Indulgents #History #saint just #couthon #robespierre #lucile desmoulins #Hebert #Chaumette #joseph fouché #Carrier

[idefilarate]

Reading an overly sentimental poem about Germinal at the stanza poetry festival :-)

@reggiespoon @anotherhumaninthisworld @commiecamille @saltforsalt

#frev #camille desmoulins #dantonists #indulgents #germinal #if one can be sure any historical person would want you to read sentimental poetry about their violent death on a stage #surely it’s Camille ?? #Lucile Desmoulins

[orpheusmori]

In regard to the vice honteaux discussion that went on in the community recently, I'd like to share some of my classics background. Cicero, a Roman philosoph who was an extensive part of the education curriculum at Louis-Le-Grand and other revolutionaries' schoolings, has an account of the Cataline conspiracy. In this writing, he discusses conspirators' immoral vices and behaviors.

McPhee touches on this in Robespierre: A Revolutionary Life, with an excerpt shown below, and Marisa Linton discusses it as well.

Knowledge and understanding of the classics, at least the basic principles, is absolutely fundamental when critically interpreting the Revolution, and eapecially decisive, convoluted moments like the Indulgents' (Danton and co.) split with "Robespierrests" in late 1793-early 1794.

#robespierre #cicero #cataline conspiracy #french rev #indulgents #mcphee

[xamag-draws]

[Stardew Valley] felt compelled to draw some ponies..

#my art #my little pony #stardew valley #this is the definition of self-indulgent #also yes the update got me back in its clutches

[catboygretzky]

People worrying if their fic is too self indulgent like....... that is the point of fanfiction. You are supposed to indulge . Every fic is self indulgent

#this malec one I'm working on is SO self indulgent and it's sexy of me #fanfiction

[juniperarts]

Slightly older Pav (over 18) w/ some ink 🌸🕸

Might do Hobie next 🤔

#atsv #across the spiderverse #spiderverse #pavitr prabhakar #atsv pavitr #pavitra prabhakar #tattoos #this is incredibly self indulgent #my art

[urmumhaha]

I wish butch n femme balls existed. Not to b a fucking sap n a massive dyke but wow. Ugh even. Just wanna wear a gown n stilettos n have my honey greet me w a bouquet before we leave n we wear matching or complimentary jewelry n spend hours on my hair and makeup to impress. N then when we get there my honey will spin me around the room for a brief dance before grabbing something to drink, wine for me n whiskey for her, as we chat w other dykes n celebrate butchfemmeness. Or whatever

#thinkin thots #sorry everyone I’m tired n a lil high after work n feeling DRAB so we r imagining #n listen I know balls r just a flaunting wrath bourgeois thing #wealth #this is just a simple indulgence for the Eve #lesbian #i #femme lesbian #butch/femme #butch lesbian #womp womp

[bestosunglass]

More of themm

#hazbin hotel #alastor #vox #hazbin alastor #hazbin vox #radiostatic #staticradio #art #broadcast husbands #hazbin hotel au #this is purely self indulgent #tbh

[lenaellsi]

mwah

#good omens #good omens fanart #aziraphale #crowley #ineffable husbands #aziracrow #azcrow #crowley's lil snake tat likes kisses too :3 #one day i'll do something that isn't a messy self-indulgent sketch #or i wont

[temeyes]

biker ghost? biker ghost.

#god this was SO SELF INDULGENT HASHASHAHSA IM GONNA JUMP IM SO EMBARASSED #helmet's a bit too small BUT IT WAS HARD TO SHAPE OK SHUT UP!!!! #my art #2023 #call of duty #call of duty: modern warfare #call of duty: modern warfare ii #call of duty: modern warfare iii #cod #codmw #modern warfare #codmwii #codmwiii #mw2 #mw3 #art #fanart #digital art #digital drawing #sketch #doodle #video games #activision #ghost #ghost cod #simon ghost riley #simon riley #biker!ghost

[nesiacha]

According to certain sources while he was imprisoned with the other Hébertists, Cordeliers he would have said the following words (repeated in the movie Saint Just et la Force des Choses) "...you will be condemned. When you should have acted, you talked. Know how to die. For my part, I swear that you shall not see me flinch. Strive to do the same". If it was a clumsy way of helping them prepare to die, it succeeded because they practically all died with dignity (apart from Hebert, this abominable false friend of the people). Another of his quotes which was attributed to him "Liberty undone!...because a few paltry fellows are about to perish! Liberty is immortal. Our enemies will fall in their turn, and liberty will survive them all!" Whether we like him or not, we can only admire the courage of Ronsin and the fact he is a person with true convictions, just like the dignity of the Girondins before dying, the Indulgents and the last Montagnards like Romme and his supporters who never give up theirs ideas which cost theirs lifes or the fact that Robespierre and the people arrested by the Convention chose the difficult but courageous path of having scruples about the legality of the Convention and Babeuf died for fightings some revolutionaries who betrayed their ideals and the revolution for money by . These revolutionary factions for the most part (apart from certain people within these factions ) fought for their convictions until the end and that we can only admire. To remember this, around 230 years ago these different factions were put to the scaffold (even if these factions fight eacher other who fight each other to the point that Saint Just said that the revolution is frozen , apart from Romme his acolytes and Babeuf and his accomplices, I'll summarize very quickly because in reality it's much more complicated than that).

In comparison, when we see our current politicians pretending to be ill or trying to flee from justice (some successfully, others not) to escape the consequences of them, we say to ourselves that in a certain way we have regressed.

*Charles Philippe Ronsin (1751-1794), gravure d'E. Thomas d'après une vue d'artiste de H. Rousseau pour l'Album du centenaire 1789.

#frev #ronsin #robespierre #indulgents #cordeliers #french revolution #romme #girondins

[idefilarate]

Ok but second thoughts do we actually have the evidence Danton *did* accuse Camille of secret vices? Presumably we should be taking it with a grain of salt, or several, given this was literally in the notes for the indulgents trial.

#frev #camille desmoulins #robespierre #Danton #indulgents #dantonists #shameful vices #vices honteux

[horseimagebarn]

horse eating hay from the hood of a very nice car parked inside its stables we can deduce the cars engine is not in the front as the lights are still on and there is hay in its hood and nothing has caught fire or blown up or some other tragedy instead this horse is peacefully having a meal from the maw of the very machination that rendered it nearly obsolete in the transportation industry of western world this speaks to the possible forgiving nature of this horse

#horse #horses #horse pics #reaction pics #reaction image #reaction images #unusual #indulgence #singular horse #indoors #neighhhh

[thepeacefulgarden]

#recovery #stop enabling #self care #self care is not selfish #doing the hard stuff #self care is not an indulgence #codependency #boundaries #relationships #unhealthy relationships #family #friendship #mental health #make yourself a priority #self compassion #healing #low contact #no contact #dysfunctional family #people pleasing #fawning #love #find your people

[neonponders]

Ao3 should have a Kudos button and an Encore/Applause button. Already left kudos? Give the author an ovation every chapter if you want to.

#indulgent post #ao3 #fanfiction

[garnet-xx-rose]

Yes, I’ve done the work analyzing this relationship’s problematic traits and I’ve come to the educated conclusion that I still want them to fuck

#Erik/Christine #phantom of the opera #shipping discourse #Entrapdak #poto #my experience with Entrapdak fits this too #I’ve done the reflecting #looked at the pro vs anti sides like a good academic student #and my conclusion is that they still have the stronger connection #therefore I’m going to enjoy indulging in them sucking and fucking unapologetically #you can not tell me otherwise