#anti gw/nriel

[acotar-taylorsversion]

Why don’t the gwynriels and eluciens understand that Az didn’t care who that necklace went to and that gwyn more than likely does not have it??

He literally did not care who Clotho, CLOTHO NOT HIM, gave it to. He just wanted to get rid of it because now it reminded him of a bad night.

AND THERE’S NO PROOF THAT CLOTHO GAVE IT TO GWYN! Absolutely none. I can almost guarantee you that either we will never see that necklace again or Clotho still has it in a desk drawer waiting to give back to Az for Elain to finally have.

Like this is what a red herring is. A distraction from the real thing.

It drives me crazy when I see them say “what would Elain do when she finds out that her endgame gave her necklace to another woman and it made his chest spark”. 🙄 like stop assuming she has it or is ever going to get it. Until it’s written by Sarah, it’s not canon. Right now, it’s canonically with Clotho.

#acotar #elain archeron #elriel #pro elriel #anti el*cien #anti e/lucien #anti g*ynriel #anti gw/nriel #azriel and elain

[sapaul]

“DiD yOu ReAd ThE bOnUs ChApTEr?!?!l

Yeah, I did. Did you??

#elriel #ACOSF #anti gw*n stans #anti gw/nriel

[breaking-shadows]

So ready for an Elriel announcement in 2024!

#elriel #elain archeron #elain x azriel #pro elriel #pro elain #anti gwynriel #anti gw/nriel #anti gwy*nriel

[emilyondemand]

Antis: Elriels are insulting Nesta by saying Elain had to dim her beauty, that’s fanon.

Meanwhile, canon:

“She’d [Elain] always been the most beautiful of us”

“Infinitely beautiful”

“Even wasted away by grief. . . Elain’s beauty was remarkable. Hers was a face that could bring kings to their knees.”

“Devastatingly beautiful”

“Easily prettiest of the three”

The only one of the sisters who’s beauty has been acknowledged by every single member of the IC (Rhys and Amren included)

The only one who’s beauty was commented on by the villain of the og trilogy

The one who, even at her worst, was described as the most beautiful female, mate or not, that a centuries old well traveled high lord’s son had ever seen.

The one who the cauldron found “so lovely”

The one who even at 11 years old, Mama Archeron was planning to use her beauty to make an advantageous match.

The one whose beauty as a preteen intimidated a woman of marrying age.

The one whose beauty was a topic of conversation at the high lord’s meeting by none other than Eris Vanserra himself.

And then there’s that time that Feyre did actually dim Elain’s beauty when she went to the human lands:

Sounds a whole lot like what Cas described at the CoN.

Then there’s the obvious contrast between Elain and Nesta in their wardrobe choices.

Nesta: tiara of black stone and sapphire

Elain: combs of pearl

Nesta: skintight velvet bodice, barely there straps, neckline plunged to her navel with another sapphire

Elain: long sleeved and modest

Nesta: red lips and kohl lined eyes

Elain: no makeup mentioned

This seems rather significant after this comment made by Mor:

And after the CoN, Nesta describes Elain’s dress as “ill suited” which is synonymous with unflattering or unbecoming. It gives a bit of a different take than how Cas describes Elain, and puts the onus on the dress.

Another element of contrast we see between Nes and Elain is how they responded to Eris. When Elain tells the story of Nesta seducing the duke she says:

And isn’t it interesting how Nesta uses the same tactics on Eris while Elain does the opposite:

Admitting to what the text tells us over and over is not “insulting Nesta.” Canonically, all of the Archeron sisters are beautiful; however, Elain’s beauty outshines her sisters. These facts can and do co exist. Accusing real life people interpreting the text, provided for us, as being insulting to a fictional characters’ beauty feels a little bit like projection since it sounds like ya’ll want to downplay Elain’s.

And saying it’s “fanon” to logically assume that Elain purposefully wore something unflattering, per the obvious juxtaposition in the text between the two sisters is really rich coming from the side that believes Elain is snuggling at night with Luc/en’s jacket from ACOMAF.

#the dress #so tired of seeing the stupid takes about this #it has already been argued to death #but here I am 😬 #Elriel #pro elriel #anti el*cien #antis said f*ck logic #anti gw/nriel #azriel x elain

[silverdreamscapes]

HOW DOES A COUPLE THAT ONLY SPEAKS TO EACH OTHER FOR ONE CHAPTER HAVE GREAT DEVELOPMENT?:

I think one of the things that’s most frustrating when talking about ACOSF, is the argument that Elriel spent no time together and Azriel spent the majority of the book with Gwyn where they spent all this time together “building a friendship and connection”, and yada yada yada. But when you really break it down…that’s just not true.

He does not spend the majority of the book with Gwyn. Azriel and Gwyn aren’t even in the same vicinity as each other until chapter 39, at roughly 54% of the book. They don’t even speak to each other until chapter 60 which is about 82% into ACOSF, and their last scene together is in the same chapter at around the 84% mark. So basically they only “interact” (and I’m using this term loosely) for 30% of ACOSF. The only time they even speak to each other, it takes almost the entire book to get there, and then it’s only for a single chapter.

And every single one of their scenes revolves around training and is in the training ring. Azriel is in the same vicinity as her, but he’s not even the one training Gwyn. He’s training priestesses on the other side of the ring. For all the flack Elriels get for shipping a couple on nothing but “glances”. I can’t see what supposedly makes Gwynriel different. She looks at him warily the first day he shows up at training, which makes sense considering it’s the first time she’s seen him since her SA and she was probably uncomfortable. He looks at her with encouragement and admiration, which again makes sense since he was helping to train them at this point. So Gwyn was essentially his trainee, student, mentee, pupil. And any trainer, teacher, or mentor would look at their mentee with pride and encouragement when they try to accomplish something. He half turns when she squeals, which again, not that surprising.

And for all the criticism Elriel gets for being off page romance and development, what exactly did Gwynriel have on page? Their first meeting…off page. That all important dagger lesson…off page and never mentioned again. Azriel spent months after solstice training Gwyn, Nesta, Emerie…off page. That bonus every one loves to bring up…off page.

No, Elain and Azriel didn’t spend a huge amount of time together but when they did, it was apparent something was going on between them. When Azriel smiles at Elain and she looks away shyly, Azriel’s shadows gathering like snakes ready to strike when Elain is hurt, Azriel becoming upset when he finds out Elain was in a fight with Nesta, Azriel following the sound of Elain’s laugh and sharing a charged look, and then Azriel not being able to be in the same room with her and the mating bond. Azriel speaking with soft menace when he asserts he can protect her. Azriel stiffening when mentioning Lucien. The numerous times Elain’s kidnapping and rescue are mentioned. Azriel worried about her finding the DT.

When Sarah talked about Azriel’s story in ACOSF she mentioned several times that Azriel had a lot of shit going on, that he had a secret, and that Nesta figures out that secret. Throughout ACOSF it’s apparent something is going on with Azriel that Cassian is curious about and Nesta figures out. That something, that secret, is Elain. So while Azriel wasn’t in the same vicinity as Elain as much as he was Gwyn, those hints and that secret that Sarah alluded and were sprinkled throughout the majority of the book, all connect back to Elain…not Gwyn.

#azriel #elain archeron #elriel #anti gw*nriel #anti gw/nriel #they barely interacted with each other

[elrielmoments]

Reminder: Azriel’s bonus chapter doesn’t take place at the end of Silver flames. It takes place the night of Solstice in Silver flames which is the middle / towards the end of the book. His bonus chapter takes place before Nesta and her friends were taken into the blood rite. Before Nesta is taken into the blood rite, she see’s Azriel in training and comments about how upset he looks (because Rhys told him to stay away from Elain and he likes her). Then, Nesta and her friends are taken into the blood rite. Azriel doesn’t care enough to break the rules to save / help them. He only cared about finding / questioning Eris. (Yet when Elain was captured in Acowar, he risked his life to save her and no one or anything was going to stop him). Then, Nesta and her friends get out of the blood rite, the whole thing with Feyre happens, the sisters spend time together and the book is over.

#elriel #pro elriel #elriel supremacy #elriel endgame #azriel #elain and azriel #anti gw*nriel #anti el*cien #acotar #acomaf #acowar #acofas #acosf #azriel bonus chapter

[pastelpinkkadan]

If we look at it from a PURELY logical and text based standpoint (no theories, no opinions on ships, no “I feel like…”, JUST text), we can pretty much guarantee two things.

Elain is the next MC.

Azriel is also the next MC.

Why?

Because everything has been set up for BOTH of them.

Azriel has gotten a bonus chapter from his POV. The most important part of that BC, was the FACT that it was from his POV. Just like Cassian got his own POV to help set him up for ACOSF. If Az was not the next MC, there’d be NO reason to give him a POV chapter. Absolutely none.

Elain is connected to pretty much every remaining plot point that the ACOTAR series has. The Dread Trove, Koschei, and yes the Band of Exiles. She has some sort of connection to each of these things, whether it’s through her Seer powers, court politics, or connections to other people. She is also the ONLY Archeron sister without a book yet. And, if we’re going off the clear pattern that SJM has set, she is obviously next.

If Lucien was next, he would have gotten a POV chapter. Or at the VERY least been in ACOSF in some meaningful way. But he wasn’t, at all. In fact Eris was featured more than him! This was the time to set Lucien up and SJM didn’t do it. Where was HIS bonus chapter? Where was HIS scene with Elain? Nonexistent.

If Gwyn was next, she’d be connected to ANY of the remaining plot points I mentioned. Obviously connected, by the way, not far reaching theories. But she isn’t. Like, at all. Hell, SJM could have easily had Gwyn say she was ready to leave the library and go explore the world, try something new, go on an adventure, or ANYTHING related to having her get her own story. Literally anything. But Gwyn went back to the library at the end of ACOSF, and SJM made a point to mention that.

Two characters have obviously been set up to have their stories told . Only two.

If the next ACOTAR book was about Elain and Lucien, you’d have to COMPLETELY ignore Azriel’s POV chapter and everything SJM has been giving him.

If the next ACOTAR book was about Azriel and Gwyn, you’d have to COMPLETELY ignore major plot points that borderline REQUIRE Elain to be present in them in a big way. And add a character that has NEVER been apart of these plot lines before, and wasn’t added to them during ACOSF either.

It’s not about “what ship you think is better”. It’s about what is ACTUALLY and BLUNTLY there in the text. With text, it doesn’t require imagining a bunch of scenes that haven’t happened or how you THINK two characters would act as a couple. It’s already there.

If you have to ignore entire characters and plot points, if they can’t exist or be around to make your ship plausible, then it’s not as valid as you think.

Thank you and make sure to tip your waitress.

#acotar #acosf #elriel #elain archeron #pro elain #pro elriel #azriel #elain x azriel #anti gw*nriel #anti el*cien

[katsum50]

At this point I think gw*nriel is nothing but an elaborate prank. There is no way someone can read the whole series and come to the conclusion that there is more (if any) evidence for gw*nriel than elriel. It has to be a joke.

#elriel #pro elriel #anti gw*nriel

[kita98]

SJM when asked who the next book is about

Antis: "there's no foreshadowing between Elriel, their interactions are not romantic. Have you read the BC??!!"

the BC: there she was, Az had stayed by the door the whole time in case it became too much and needed to leave (his secret to tell never hers), they'd exhanged looks, the occasional brush of their fingers, Azriel wanting to get on his knees to taste Elain, Az and Elain about to kiss.

Antis: "elriel is too obvious, SJM wouldn't do that"

sjm setting up the forbidden romance for the spymaster who had lovers he kept secret and the seer who knows how to keep secrets and had her sister wondering if she took lessons in stealth by Azriel or her besties who are spies (and work with him).

#elriel #pro elriel #it's obvious for a reason #she has been setting everything up to tell their story since ACOMAF #elriel endgame #anti el*cien #anti gw*nriel

[i-sneezed]

One thing I’ve noticed is how Gwynriels never give Gwyn her own story.

All theories I’ve seen involving her in future books revolve around her in relation to Azriel’s story. It’s always something like:

“Gwyn is going to help fix Illyria with Azriel”

“Gwyn is going to heal with Az”

There’s never a storyline that’s about HER.

I don’t think the reason is because they don’t want her to have her own story, I think it’s because they cannot connect her to the overarching plot without sticking her with Az.

Because that’s the thing: Gwyn has 0 connection to the plot. Any connections are only through her proximity to the IC. But that’s not enough for an independent story, and the fact that Gwynriels can’t come up with one for her proves that point.

Any MC in this series should be able to move the plot forward independent of their romantic relationship.

And this series, first and foremost, is about WOMEN. Women take the lead in this story.

They do not exist in relation to the men around them. They are active participants in the plot who also find love.

Gwyn, as it stands, doesn’t fulfill that. Could she? Sure, in theory. But we have no canon information to indicate she could carry her own book.

#elriel #azriel #acotar #sjm #anti gw*nriel

[elrielbaby]

The way antis only look at things in a vacuum absolutely needs to be studied.

We’re excited about Time Magazine shouting out Elain & Azriel (and only Elain & Azriel)

They say: ‘Well all elriels have is magazine articles, we have canon on our side!’

We’re excited about canon text that proves our ship, over and over and over again.

They say: Well, look at this Facebook comment from SJM in 2017, before ACOWAR came out!

We’re excited because SJM wears something extremely Elain coded in a HOFAS selfie

They say: Ugh, and that’s all they cling to! How ridiculous -

Meanwhile, they’re over here calling it confirmation because Azriel is involved in a bonus chapter, and shouting from the roof tops because it being called ‘House of Flame and Shadow’ must mean it includes G*ynriel! (To this day I do not know why. Shadows because of Azriel obviously but how G*yn relates to Flame I haven’t got a clue. Maybe because her hair is red?)

They’ll say Azriel was only interested in Elain sexually because of the bonus chapter, yet seem to skip how he describes her so beautifully as she comes from under the stairs, how they can read each other without the extra help of Azriels shadows - they seem to forget the previous four books of interactions the two have, or even more hilariously, they do remember them but pass them off as brother/sister vibes… to which I am usually speechless because I cannot fathom admitting that, particularly after the bonus chapter and then expecting me to come around to your way of thinking, apparently?

But yeah. We’re crazy and have nothing 🤪

#pro elriel #elriel #anti gw*nriel #anti el*cien

[acotar-taylorsversion]

In My Opinion

If Elain chooses Lucien, then it will not be for herself and nothing will ever convince me otherwise.

Elain choosing Lucien would ruin absolutely everything about her character arc. Elucien would ruin whatever is left of the acotar series. Because why make Elain's big thing all about choices if she chooses the one that is easiest?

Why talk about wanting to write about rejecting a mate and exploring the consequences if it's not about Elain and Lucien? Why write Elain and Lucien the way they are and how uncomfortable they are around each other when they would end up with each other anyways? Why write about the growing friendship and attraction between Elain and Az if it leads to nowhere?

I will never understand how people can read about how much Elain avoids Lucien, shrinks into herself, and becomes quiet and reserved around him and still think that she would ever be happy with him. It's not just the mating bond, it's him, too. He is a constant reminder of her trauma and what she has lost.

At least with Az, she was finding herself and becoming comfortable with her new life. She became comfortable enough to try and begin something with him. That bonus chapter confirmed that they both have mutual attraction towards each other and it had taken months to get them to that point. It wasn't just some random thing that happened.

Yeah, we don't know what Elain is thinking or what her thoughts are about what all has happened. But I go off by her actions, and they scream that she wants nothing to do with Lucien.

I'm gonna have to reread HOFAS again and try to better understand what was all said about the cauldron and Truth Teller. Because I bet that Elain and Lucien got one of those mating bonds that is solely based on having powerful children and not true love. And I bet the connection that Elain has with Truth Teller will mean something, too. And I've heard that Truth Teller can break bonds? Is that the connection? Will Elain be able to break her own bond and nullify it so it doesn't affect her and Lucien anymore? If they both reject it, does it nullify the bond? Like there are so many things about mating bonds that I think would be great to explore other than another couple accepting it. Talk about boring, repetitive, and predictable.

And don't give me that "Sarah is a fated mates author and that means Elucien is endgame" or "that bonus chapter ended with Gwyn so that means the series is all about her and Az" bullshit. That is complete bullshit.

#elain archeron #acotar #elriel #pro elriel #anti el*cien #anti e/lucien #anti g*ynriel #anti gw/nriel #i thought it was obvious #elriel supremacy #sarah j maas

[sapaul]

Imagine thinking a ship has sunk because of “a failed kiss”. Who gets over someone because they didn’t get a chance to kiss them?

“Yeah, I’m not really feeling this anymore. We tried once and it didn’t even happen the way I wanted. I’m over it, I’ll just move to the next girl. Hopefully it works out better.”

That’s what your ship sounds like

#anti gw/nriel #pro elriel #elriel #azriel #elain archeron #azriel shadowsinger #acotar #acosf #azriel supremacy #elain archeron: general #acofas

[kayla-2]

N.esta has never mentioned seeing anything between gleeriel. She is the only perspective that has spent the most time with Azriel and Gwen together and individually-and she’s given absolutely nothing unless you think him snorting and raising his eyebrows is romance. She is the perfect set up for them, just like feyre who caught everything between Nessian.

Unlike elriel…..

#anti g.ynriel #anti gw*nriel #pro elriel #acotar #acosf #acomaf #acowar #elriel #elain #azriel

[highladyjane]

Disregarding the fact of how bad the pregnancy plot generally was handled and how much we hate the misogynistic arguments now surrrounding it...

Here's a take I don't see mentioned enough.

No, Nesta didn't change Elain's anatomy... Because we all know that should be Elain's choice after everything they've both been through. But remember how since the very first book and nearly through every book since, we were told how specific the magic is, especially regarding bargains? That you have to be specific with words?

What exactly did Nesta ask the Cauldron for in order to save Feyre and Nyx and Rhys?

The Cauldron/The Mother didn't change Nesta as it did to save Feyre - she was passed the knowledge and did it herself.

So if Nesta knew how to adjust herself, then she very well could pass that knowledge onto Cauldron-blessed Elain who still has her full powers if Elain ever should want or need the knowledge.

Sarah doesn't even need to "magical bean" her way through an Illyrian pregnancy. She just has to go with what 👏she's 👏actually 👏already 👏written👏 and use what Nesta now knows.

I don't want to hear about "pliant BONES" again, thank you very much.

#that bean was so anti-climactic though lol #sarah j maas #pro nesta archeron #pro elriel #elain x azriel #anti-gw*nriels #acotar canon #elriel baby

[silverdreamscapes]

I’ve seen entire dissertations on why Elriel can’t be together because he’s gross and objectifies her and only wants her for sex blah blah blah (even though the attraction is actually mutual)

And then I have to see the most explicit fanart and headcanons with Gw*nriel supposedly depicting their relationship after “she’s healed”.

And yet I’ve actually not seen how she’s healed. Only the aftermath which is the sex and the smut. In the book she went back to the library which indicates to me that she still has a long way to go and she’s not there yet.

The hyper sexualization of a character who was assaulted, still healing, and is essentially a virgin in every way that actually matters is odd to me when these very same people take such a puritanical view of his bonus where Azriel admits he masturbates to thoughts of Elain…and then in the bonus we get confirmation that she feels the same way and reciprocates and even initiates the physical attraction between them.

For some reason that’s disgusting but the most explicit fanart and headcanons and then shipping of two people who in canon have shown no attraction or interest in one another, or have even touched is perfectly fine. This fandom, I swear lol. Please never change because your hypocrisy is highly entertaining.

#so much phony clutching of pearls #anti gw*nriel #anti gw/nriel #fandom fuckery #azriel #elain archeron