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magiclovingdragon · 2 years

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So, anyone want to read my theory about how and why syIvie cant really continue as a character past Ioki s2?

Warning this is not exactly sylvie/sylki friendly. I’m not attacking anyone but please dont read if you’re going to look for a fight, I dont want one and its literally just a theory.

I don’t think Sylvie can continue as a character past s2.

The only character she really interacted with in s1 was Loki, her storyline with Kang and the tva is pretty much all wrapped up (one could argue her childhood nexus event but it was already l, very subtly revealed. When they arrested her as a little girl, she was playing with her Valkyrie dolls and she was roleplaying the Valkyrie that defeated the dragon and saved the day… she was playing the hero. Loki’s are not supposed to want to become or become heroes at all, they are supposed to be the villian who always loses. so because young Sylvie wanted to be a Valkyrie and protect Asgard, she violated the sacred timeline. She was not meant to be a hero, none of her actions so far in s1 make her a hero, to me she can not and will not be a hero going forward and the Lamentis nexus event was designed by He Who Remains to get her and Loki off Lamentis, back to the tva and then to the citadel). Her individual plot in s1 is only ‘kill HWR’, not even properly stop the tva because she could have been recruiting the tva workers instead of killing them, she knew they were victims like her that had been kidnapped and brainwashed. But she didn’t, she went straight to the top, killed HWR and has seemingly left to live her own life. Her story arc is essentially done. I don’t think she will have a redemption because she doesn’t think she did anything wrong and even if she did think it she wouldn’t admit it (like killing the minutemen she knew were victims - she just said “I did what I had to do”, no accountability or remorse).

She has no meaningful or lasting interaction with anyone else but loki and HWR. The former she betrays and rejects, not just romantically but in every way between “you cant trust and I cant be trusted” and her repeated denials of being like loki/“a loki” and the latter she kills so where else can her character development go? They had some really interesting potential between her and B-15, Ravonna, Mobius, etc. but they barely did anything with that and only really cared about her in regards to TVA Loki. She has no real interaction with the other Loki variants in the void either, and they barely let her remember her own parents or her Thor. She is completely isolated in her story and I cant see her crossing over into the main mcu because even with as much as we’re told she’s amazing, frankly she is very bland and unlikeable, her only characterisation is ‘angry and can fight’. If she interacted with other mcu characters they definitely wouldn’t like her after finding out she was willing to put the whole multiverse at risk for her own selfish desires.

I know from what’s already been said by people working on the show about s2 essentially being “the search for Sylvie and to right the multiverse” but I can’t imagine her going “Oh I was wrong I’m so sorry, let me team up with you guys even though I insult and assault you all the time and betrayed you Loki. We’d make a great team even though we’ve already established we cant trust each other!” It would be out of character. She’s such a lone wolf and clearly hates working with others so I can’t imagine a redemption involving her joining other mcu heroes. Sylvies arc is so self-centered and selfish, her attitude so abrasive and condescending, that without Loki pining after her or the tva hunting her she cant believably interact with anyone else. Ravonna is Kangs love interest in the comics so I can see that happening and her expanding out. B-15 could become a shield agent if she wants or could just go back to her old life and never be heard from again. Mobius is a popular character and has other potential with him being MR Tesseract in the comics. Sylvie, there is next to no potential for her because she’s already achieved her selfish revenge, screw everyone else in the multiverse. There is no redeeming that in my eyes other than a last minute ‘I’m forced to help the mission/fight kang as defence and then be killed’ style “redemption” (and I personally hate those because its not actually redemption because there is no work being put in to be a better person, its just dying) but again I dont see it happening because she doesnt hold herself accountable. I think either she will refuse and live on a timeline, maybe with the postman mentioned in ep3 if they ever actually existed, never to be heard from again or she will in some way be forced to fight a Kang and he will kill her to A) establish him as the big bad both in the show and in the mcu proper going forward, B) as a mirror of her killing HWR (who was keeping his other variants in check) and starting all this multiverse mess and C) as a mirror to Ioki “helping” Thanos and then being killed by him. She could potentially be a villain, it would definitely be interesting and her actions in s1 pointed that way to me but again I cant see anything that could involve her crossing into the main mcu as a villain because right now it would be too similar in the broad strokes to what has been done with Wanda so I cant see them going that route again, especially so quickly.

From what we know sylvie’s only appearance is in 2 locations, the mcdonalds and a record store which I’m assuming will happen in the same episode so I really don’t think she’ll play a big part at all in s2. I dont think they’ll continue with sylki after she betrayed him and all the offscreen controversy surrounding it (incest, transphobia ect). Marvel cancelled brucenat and stevesharon over less harmful criticism. The ship is also just pure toxic, its not a progressive relationship at all, if their presenting genders were swapped it would be abusive but because its a female presenting person doing it to a male presenting person its brushed aside, he’s a simp and she’s a girlboss. There is also no growth for her in the relationship because she has already established that whatever she may feel for him is not as important as her own desires and again she then rejects and betrays him.

As a character most people just dont really care about her much. Critics didnt really like her other than “girlboss we should hype up”. We know that critics were only previewed the first two episodes, the first two episodes were the most watched and highest rated. I fully believe, what with everything Tom has said, that he was proposed the show based off the first two episodes. Everything from episode 3 onwards felt like a completely different show. Sophia herself isnt that skilled an actor or personally likeable, especially after her comments on Loki’s genderfluidity. She doesnt have that much onscreen or offscreen chemistry with any of her costars and she actively shits on Loki’s character to hype Sylvie up and she admits she did not research into Loki at all, not even collaborating with Tom and said Sylvie was basically being made up as they went along and Herron added extra Sylvie scenes in while they were filming which makes sense when Season 1 had a different original storyline (and I’m sensing that season 2 sort of is the OG storyline that they had in mind what with marvel reusing the s1 synopsis for s2). I remember Michael Waldron saying in an interview that they were mid way through writing the show when a female writer came to them and pitched the Loki and Sylvie romance love story, and he said he and the rest of the crew just went with it and Herron has previously said she thought the end of s1 would be the last we see of Sylvie.

#pls dont attack me for this its just a theory #I’m not saying I want it to happen #loki s2 theory #loki series meta #loki series critical #loki series negativity #anti sylvie #anti sylvie laufeydottir #anti sylki #antisylvie #antisylki #loki s2 #loki series

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ijuststareatstuffhereok89 · 1 year

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I don't understand the "Sylvie is a Mary Sue" argument because she is actually a very complex and flawed character. Same with Wanda.

Okay then, how is she complex? Or original?

1- Rough childhood? Okay. I had one too. A lot of people did. 2- Trauma? Literally everyone in the MCU has it to varying degrees. 3- Flaws? Can't argue with that. She's abusive, singular-minded, selfish, listens to no one, thinks she's the superior variant, etc. But she never faces consequences for a single one of these. In fact, the writers of the show twist these around a LOT to make it look like she's an antihero for being so 'tough' and #GuuurlBoss 4- She learns nothing because she's already the central focus of the series that which she is NOT named after. She does not change. She does not understand that she is far from the only person to go through what she did. Its always about her and her needs.

Unlike Sylvie, Wanda is not a Sue because she goes through a journey, she learns, she loses, she learns the error of her ways (save for Multiverse of Mehhness), she grows. Even Wanda's motivations change as she does. She's a great example of exactly why Sylvie is NOT complex.

My ficus grows faster than Sylvie's personality.

There is no complexity to Sylvie because she's a checklist. "Strong Love Interest With Sad Backstory Who Just Wants to Be Loved Deep Down" is a dime-a-dozen, and has been since forever. Beyond her quest for revenge against the TVA, she has no buried motivations, experiences, or reasons to evolve.

Sorry, the show is called LOKI, not SYLVIE.

I do, however, in earnest, invite you to show your evidence to the contrary.

#antisylki #antisylvie #loki tv series

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ohara-n-brown · 2 years

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Also are we every gonna talk about how Sylvie is the only Disney+ character that just…can’t transfer over to the MCU?

All of the new characters were meant for movies. Kate, Kamala, Billy and Tommy, Steven and Marc. They ALL can appear in MCU movies and interact with other characters seamlessly.

Can you seriously imagine Sylvie interacting with other MCU characters? Can you imagine other characters liking her or wanting to converse with her at all? Can you imagine an MCU movie she can appear in without being a sore thumb?

The answers to those questions is ‘No.’ Honesty, I cannot name one currently living MCU character that would want to talk to her, or have sympathy for her at all - especially after learning what she did to Kang. And I can’t imagine her wanting to talk to anybody, or help them either.

Sylvies arc is so self-centered and selfish, her attitude so abrasive and condescending, that I without Loki pining after her, I cannot imagine how they’d fit her into the MCU otherwise.

If she doesn’t die in S2, I have no idea what they plan to do with her.

#antisylvie #antisylki #anti lokixsylvie #loki #loki s2 #Loki

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raifenlf · 2 years

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Looking at Gamestop's website last night and I noticed something interesting.

The Loki TV series version of the "Lady Loki" character in Sylvie's action figure is on clearance and selling at a cheaper price than other action figures. If you look up a couple rows, you might notice the one at the very top is the real and true Loki in feminine form, the Marvel Legends Series Loki Agent of Asgard figure. This action figure is more expensive than Sylvie's action figure and is not on clearance. Interesting...

#loki series criticism #loki deserved better #the real lady loki #antisylvie #anti loki show #anti loki series #loki critical #loki criticism #sometimes my faith in other humans is restored and it's a great feeling #the benefits of insomnia

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mistress-of-words · 1 year

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#loki #antilokishow #antisylvie #antisylki

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bigbazoxngas · 3 years

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if you put sylvie in the amora tag i hope your pillow is warm on both sides.

#dont test me #loki series #the loki series negativety #amora #amora the enchantress #amora my beloved <3 #LEAVE HER ALONE #antisylvie #antisylki #anti sylki #anti sylvie

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musclesandhammering · 10 months

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I don’t often post tweeter screenshots but what the actual fuck is this

I’m not saying that s*lvie stans are weirdo #girlboss(TM) babes who never liked Loki outside of their desire to screw him and are happy to finally get a #girlboss(TM) character who gets to mistreat him and screw him but….

#antisylki #anti sylki #antisylvie #anti sylvie #loki series negativity #Twitter

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inwantofamuse · 5 months

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Look, lemme clear something up.

Some Sylvie fans will post that we hate Sylvie or Sylkie because it gets in the way of the Lokius ship. Some sad folks even try to say it's because she's a woman. That last accusation is too ridiculous to address, lol.

Here's the thing: if Mobius never even existed, and all of Sylvie's actions and words were still the same, my dislike of her would be the same.

Because it's HER. It's her words, her actions, her attitude.

And if she were a man, I'd say the same.

I would probably be harder on the character if they were a man, TBH.

She's just completely unlikable to me. I do not see, have NEVER seen, the vulnerability in her that made me love TH's Loki.

And considering how she acted in season two, GURL.

I honestly was rooting for someone to punch her in the face.

#loki #marvel #loki series #antisylvie

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incantation-sigyn · 2 years

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And so this sh*t begins.

Sending big hugs your way, OGLoki. You shouldn't be submitted to see this shamless affront.

#OgLokiMyBeloved

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janetsnakehole02 · 3 years

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Soooo I found this in an MCU insta comment section and now I’m about to make it everyone’s problem

Before I get started here’s my disclaimer - I personally don’t hate Sylvie, she just pisses me off a lot of the time and that’s largely the writers’ fault, not hers. Still not very pro-Sylvie sentiments here so beware. Okay now moving forward

“Definitely overhated and simply because she fell for Loki (which got misogynistic girls mad) and then betrayed him.”

Make the assumption that people who hate Sylvie are jealous that she fell for Loki ONE MORE TIME SAY IT I DARE YOU. That is such a heteronormative assumption and don’t you think it’s a little misogynistic to assume that every woman who who watches Loki is in love with him? Please, continue to erase and ignore criticism from lesbian/ace/aro fans, that’s so gracious of you. And yes, people that love Loki are obviously upset that she betrayed him. Whatever her reasons, he was still hurt in the end. He learned to trust again and it was shattered within a matter of minutes.

“The story would NOT progress without Loki, period.”

Alright, I’ll bite. First two eps are about him, sure. Loki being captured, Loki being the one to find out where the variant is hiding, Loki helping the TVA, so far all Loki. Great. Then we get to episode 3 and we’re introduced to Sylvie. She doesn’t like calling herself a Loki, constantly looks down on Loki and is laser focused on her mission. Somehow she taught herself enchantment and visibly Loki is immediately impressed; the viewers now know she’s won him over. Then Loki gets them on the train and also gets them kicked out, and all the while Sylvie has made it perfectly clear that all Loki is, is an OBSTACLE. Again, laser focused on her mission. That’s her life’s work. The first thing she says to him: “you’re in my way.” Episode 3 onwards is focused on SYLVIE’S journey to destroying the TVA. We get a flashback of Sylvie on Asgard before she was taken and later we get to see her sort of reflect on her running from the TVA before Loki jumps in to tell her “she’s amazing!”

Everything we’re told about Loki in episode 1, however, is forgotten and ignored. Not once is it ever mentioned again how Mobius blamed Loki for Frigga’s death or how he said Loki was destined to fail so others could succeed. He sets everything aside to focus on Sylvie now. The idea to enchant? Sylvie’s. Killing He Who Remains? Also Sylvie. Loki is part of the plot, sure, and if he were completely removed from it things would be different but that is simply because he was a CATALYST in Sylvie’s mission. He was able to help her get there faster because the writers clearly wrote it so that minute he became so impressed with her the storyline would change their roles and all of a sudden it was Sylvie’s mission that took the forefront and Loki would do whatever it took to help. Sylvie clearly knew that. And the minute he expressed doubt in the Citadel, she knew he had become an obstacle once again so she kicked him out by taking advantage of his awe and trust for her (I’m not calling it love, that’s not love).

My point here is that even if Loki hadn’t been a part of the plot, Sylvie would’ve still gotten to the Citadel. It was her idea to enchant Alioth after all. It would’ve taken her longer and having someone who was ready to drop everything for her helped it go quicker, but she would’ve still been able to do it nonetheless. Upon Sylvie’s introduction, the only role Loki has is moving the plot along faster. All the major plot points, the ones that are absolutely necessary for it to make sense, those are Sylvie’s. Everything Loki does from episode 3 onwards is tied back to Sylvie. Even though we know Loki has his own motivations to destroy the TVA, the focus shifts towards Sylvie’s motivations, and Loki himself even says as much in the Void. He no longer wants to destroy the Time Keepers for his own sake, no, he tells his variants he wants to do it for this AMAZING female variant, the only one he DOES trust. And it is that trust that helps Sylvie get to her end goal faster. Basically, it’s not that the plot wouldn’t progress the same without Loki, it’s just that it wouldn’t progress at the speed that it did.

“She had her reasons.”

Alright, slight tangent first, but it makes no sense to me that people respond to our complaints about Loki being pushed aside for Sylvie with “he chose not to be selfish, he chose to care about someone else, get out of here with your toxic masculinity.” Okay pull the brakes. So Loki wanting to destroy the TVA is selfish? But I thought when people were coming at Sylvie for killing He Who Remains, they needed to take it easy because she had a good reason. She did have a good reason, but what gives you the right to invalidate Loki’s reasons? Did he not lose enough of his life to the TVA for you, is that what it is? The reason people were calling Sylvie selfish is because she chose to go forward with her choice despite being informed of the drastic consequences. Neither Loki nor Sylvie knew of those consequences before talking to He Who Remains, but once they did, Loki chose to (rightly) think before they make a decision they regret and can’t take back, whilst Sylvie saw his mindset as nothing but an obstacle.

Actually, the way Sylvie reacted the minute Loki showed any signs of disagreement was scary to me. It reminds me of anytime my sister tries to get me to do something that could get us into major trouble and I ask her to be reasonable, think it through first, and not act on impulse. Then she gets a crazed look in her eyes, similar to the one Sylvie had when she said “why are we not seeing this the same way?” Honestly it really creeped me out. She can’t handle being told “no,” for once in her life, and she lashes out by insulting Loki: “this was all because you wanted the throne.” My sister does the same thing: “of course you wouldn’t do it, you’re a terrible sister, not to mention you’re so lazy and such a goody two shoes, you’re never gonna get anywhere in life with that attitude.” That is so SO toxic I don’t even know where to begin. That is a manipulation tactic used by people like Sylvie and my sister to get people like Loki and me to do what THEY want. Because internally when they say these falsehoods about us, we feel the need to prove them wrong. So eventually we give in. That’s what I usually do. But Loki didn’t. He stood his ground, made sure she knew that he didn’t want the throne but that he also wasn’t budging. And Sylvie had to take drastic measures.

That got away from me a bit but anyway, she had reasons, yes, but so did Loki, and look at the difference in his reaction and hers. I’m not using that to invalidate her trauma. What I’m trying to say is that if she knew how terrible it was to be on the run from the TVA, she wouldn’t have wanted to subject others to the same kind of treatment. Which is what would happen once the multiverse breaks. And this plays into how she was so intensely hero-coded, which I’ll get into next.

“There’s a beautiful foundation for a complex, traumatized, and strong female superhero to be made there.”

You had me until “superhero.” Because nothing Sylvie does matches up to what a hero would do. She put her own revenge over the fate of the entire universe. That’s not something a hero would do. She burned brainwashed minutemen alive (while she KNEW they were brainwashed and variants like herself) and enchanted them to the brink of insanity. Hunter C-20 didn’t survive it. That’s not something a hero would do either. And it was frustrating how the writers tried to pass her off as a hero by having her call out Mobius on “arresting little girls, classic hero stuff.” Making Sylvie say that line sounds incredibly hypocritical. And listen, they’re right, this is a solid foundation - FOR AN ANTIHERO. I’d actually be all for this plot if the writers weren’t always trying to get us to root for her. If the writers hadn’t always been trying to excuse her actions and instead simply portrayed her with no filter as the morally gray character she is, then it would’ve been fine. The same way Wandavision a) successfully acknowledged and kindly validated Wanda’s trauma and b) made sure that it came off very clearly that THAT DOES NOT EXCUSE HER ACTIONS IN WESTVIEW. I wouldn’t consider Wanda a superhero and I don’t want her to be either. There’s no shame in being a morally gray character or an antihero. What’s frustrating is if the writers try to portray such a character as either a) fully a hero, the way they did with Sylvie, or b) fully a villain, the way they did with Loki.

“Sylvie is underrated and her powers and trauma are overlooked by the viewers.”

I wouldn’t call Sylvie or her powers underrated. She has a lot of fans and there are thousands of fan pages for her. It’s very clear that the show hyped up Sylvie’s powers more. There was a scene in episode 2 about all of Loki’s powers, but with Sylvie, we got a bit of that added “I taught myself” and then we watched her enchant Alioth a few episodes later. Not to mention she actually got the Loki outfit and Loki didn’t, not once, in a show named after HIM. I’ve seen all the edits on my explore page, alright, it’s pretty obvious that everyone thinks Sylvie’s powers are great. Anytime someone makes a compilation of “magic in phase 4,” Sylvie is always included. The show’s intention was “Sylvie > Loki, Sylvie = superior Loki.” And that may not be what ALL fans believe, but some definitely do. And most are pretty fond of Sylvie overall, so again, underrated is not the right word for her or her powers.

Now her trauma - that’s a different story. I’m not sure how ALL the viewers perceived it, but based on the interviews we’ve seen, it’s clear the writers themselves think Sylvie has been through more and that Loki’s is insignificant: “Sylvie has deeper scars” -Eric Martin. “Loki uses his trauma as an excuse to be selfish.” -Michael Waldron. And a lot of fans, at least from what I’ve seen, think that Sylvie had a harder life growing up because she didn’t grow up with the royal lifestyle like Loki. I also saw someone say that Sylvie’s backstory failed to evoke any pathos compared to Loki’s, though. Comparing trauma, no matter which side, is unacceptable. That’s all there is to my Ted talk thanks for coming

Tagging some moots that I think would enjoy this bc I am actually really damn proud of this lmao and I 100% want it to get more traction I’m not ashamed to admit it @lil-stark @valkyrieandstrangeridingaragorn @mostlylokisometimesbucky @ashdoesfandom @musclesandhammering @alwida10

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magiclovingdragon · 2 years

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Yeah so I have a horrible feeling marvel are going to keep pushing this shit

If marveI dont understand by now that syIki is one of the worst things they’ve ever done then there is no hope

#its incest its transphobic and even if it was neither of those its still straight up toxic and (on syIvies part) abusive #antisylki #antisylvie #loki series negativity #loki series critical

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skipperauroras · 2 years

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Rant of the day

I hate both Sylvie and Mobius, I hate both Sylki and Lokius, can’t Loki just have someone who doesn’t abuse him for crying out loud! like even just a friend that can be there for him. or if he is in a relationship, get him someone who would treat him right, that’s all I’m asking damnit! I’m just mad that people fight over Sylki and Lokius when I think both pairings are toxic as hell. I’m so mad that Marvel and it’s bad writers for this god awful show encourages Sylki to be shipped as well, like she is abusing that man, and yeah it is abuse, calling someone names, and treating them badly despite knowing NOTHING about them is ABUSE, it’s like bullying, not only that she does one of the most freaking hypocritical things I’ve ever seen someone do, she all like ‘I can’t trust you, you’re mischievous, ect’ then she is the one that is the betrayer, by sending Loki back to TVA, I hate that hypocritical bitch. Then There’s Mobius who constantly messes with Loki’s emotions, like the boy didn’t have emotional trauma already so you decide to make it worse, and they call this freak of a asshole therapeutic, oh like HELL NO, if that was my therapy I think I’d go insane and my mental health would be even worse. Mobius manipulates Loki in many traumatic ways, what a wonderful way to spend your time after you’ve been tortured by a grape bastard on steroids, only to be tortured again by some dumbass with a moustache. Also some random ass stranger telling you how terrible you are, despite said terrible stranger has done the same things if not worse, yes Mobius has done more worse things then Loki, Mobius is a big fucking hypocrite just like stupid ass sylvie. these are the ships people are fighting over? honestly that’s pathetic, both of these ships are terrible as hell, and they hurt Loki tremendously, honestly anyone who ships them probably just doesn’t give a damn about Loki’s well being at all. I’m really mad about the fact that Sylvie and Mobius are both treated like hero's despite doing so much more worse than Loki. I wish Disney would have gave me an actual series about Loki and Loki only but I know now I will never get my wish. I don’t like sitting around waiting for them to ruin my favorite characters life even further but there’s nothing I can do about it, and I absolutely hate it.

#anti sylvie #anti sylki #anti lokius #anti mobius #antisylvie #antisylki #antimobius #antilokius #cuss words #cussing

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