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#but I don't think of King being the author of this story at all beyond the second act of Drawing. And he's fucking in it.
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aaronsrpgs · 10 months
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"Ancient World Fantasy" Reading List
(A little context to start. If you just want book recs, scroll on down to the first image.)
As I’ve been getting into RuneQuest (Wikipedia link), one striking component of the culture and community surrounding the game is that they’re very into the lore of its fictional world, Glorantha. I’m saying this as a comparison to a game like D&D, where the game is spread across tons of settings with no real sense of obligation to keep things in line with earlier editions.
Glorantha’s canon and worldbuilding has been going on since it was published in 1978 without, as far as I can tell, any big reboots. Which means that, unlike D&D, where people are bringing in all kinds of influences and doing direct adaptions of Jane Austen books and whatever, the RuneQuest game remains pretty tightly tied to the original setting. (There have been some exceptions. But not many!)
But since I run games for people who have ADHD or aren’t interested in studying up, I’ve been looking at all kinds of inspiration to drop into the game. Here are 20 novels that are roughly “ancient world” or “Bronze Age” like RuneQuest and deal with people interacting with strange gods, tight communities, and a world without fast overland travel or transferal of information.
I’m presenting them alphabetically by author’s last name.
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The Brazen Gambit, Cinnabar Shadows, The Rise and Fall of a Dragon King by Lynn Abbey
I'm sorry for starting this post off with licensed RPG novels, but these are good! And I don't mean "good for licensed RPG novels." I've read tons of them, and most are so bad! But these are actually fun. Good character development in a sword-and-sorcery world. It's also an ecological apocalypse world, with godlike beings oppressing common folks, leading to a lack of technological advancement and knowledge of the past.
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The Long Ships by Frans G. Bentsson
Written in the 1940s as a series of novellas, these stories take you on a tour of the Viking-era world, from Europe to the Middle East and beyond. Like a bunch of books on this list, this places them post-Bronze Age, so they're not officially "ancient world." But it gives a big spread of cultures, from the more clan-based Vikings to the bustling metropolises of Turkey. And it doesn't place any of them on any kind of linear advancement scale or whatever other gross way people "rate" cultures.
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Tales of Nevèrÿon and Neveryóna by Samuel R. Delany
The master of weird sci-fi and gay historical novels, Chip Delany also wrote a fantasy epic. And it rules! Set on pre-historical(ish) Earth, these books describe the stories that maybe inform the myths we tell today? Dragons and slave revolts! A sort of "What if Game of Thrones was good?" series. Lots of good stuff about how people learn and how understanding expands.
I'm not listing the third book only because it's also a historical look at New York during the AIDS epidemic. It's an amazing book! But it strays from the "ancient world" aesthetic.
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Baudolino by Umberto Eco
Another novel expressly set after the Bronze Age (this one starts in the 12th century). BUT it's about Medieval people's interaction with the knowledge they inherited from the past, specifically the myth of Prester John and the works of Herodotus.
I think I keep putting books like this on the list because roleplaying in a fantastical ancient world is not too far off from how Medieval people might have worshipped and referenced works from ancient Rome and non-European places.
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Black Leopard, Red Wolf and Moon Witch, Spider King by Marlon James
One of our best living writers! These are fantasy novels expressly set in a fantastical version of ancient/Medieval Africa. The books explore the same events from multiple points of view and are full of cool magic, awesome spirit combat, and a vast number of places and cultures that actively deconstructs most games's portrayal of fantasy Africa as a homogeneous place.
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The Wake by Paul Kingsnorth
I think Kingsnorth has been outted as a sort of eco-fascist? I totally believe it, so feel free to skip this one. It's a historical novel set in England in 1066, as the Normans invade from France. It's written in a faux Middle English language and focuses on the lower classes and how they try to resist the invasion. A good reminder that "Medieval culture" (and especially the Renaissance as a time that "culture advanced") is often based on certain classes of society, such as rich people and/or men.
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Iceland's Bell by Halldór Laxness
Speaking of how class intersects with technological advancement, this book is set in the 18th century, but it focuses on Iceland at a time when it was ruled by Denmark, and the lower classes there were under an enforced poverty. It's a book about how a rich Icelander was trying to recover the stories of his people in order to create a sense of national identity and resistance. But it's also a story about how a destitute man acts like a total weirdo when he's not allowed to fish in his own waters and is cut off from understanding his place in history.
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The Raven Tower by Anne Leckie
A big part of RuneQuest is people interacting with and enacting their gods. That's what this book is about! And it's about the strange vertigo that comes to people when they try to interact with the impossible timelines that gods exist on. Very good stuff.
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Night's Master and Death's Master by Tanith Lee
Ostensibly set on Earth back when it was flat and demons roamed the world, which is basically RuneQuest. Sort of like a series of hornier, gay bibles? With lots of gender fuckery, fun sex, and cool monsters.
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Circe by Madeline Miller
The story of the witch from The Odyssey, told from her point of view. Beautiful prose, tragic and beautiful characters, and a great share of mythical strangeness. Perfect if you want to learn how to run NPCs that are adversaries without being shallowly evil.
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Ronia, the Robber's Daughter by Astrid Lindgren
Semi-Medieval again, but low class and vague enough that it could exist throughout ancient history. The daughter of a robber grows up in a tower full of robbers and generally has a wonderful time. Lots of weird monsters live in the woods, and there's a great starcrossed romance with someone from a rival robber gang. Perfect inspiration if you're running some cattle-raiding runs in RuneQuest; this is how to make robbers fun and sympathetic.
Read the book, watch the 1984 Swedish movie (which includes a great comedic scene of full-frontal dudity), and then watch the Studio Ghibli series.
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A Stranger in Olondria and The Winged Histories by Sofia Samatar
Set in a world of pepper farmers and religious fanatics who worship a mysterious inscribed stone, these books do a great job of showing how people might interact with religion, rival cults, and mystery rites. It also portrays literacy and learning to read in places where it's gated behind social gatekeeping. And once again, the prose is beautiful.
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The Palm-Wine Drinkard by Amos Tutuola
The first African novel published in English outside of Africa, The Palm-Wine Drinkard is a funny, hallucinogenic story about getting drunk, stumbling through weird landscapes, and encountering fantastical spirits and people.
Tutuola also wrote My Life in the Bush of Ghosts, the inspiration for the famous(?) David Byrne/Brian Eno album. I haven't read it yet, but I'm keeping an eye out!
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The Green Pearl by Jack Vance
This is a sequel to Lyonesse, which I haven't read because I love staring in the middle of things. Set around a mythical British Isles when Atlantis was still above the sea and part of the group of islands. Some great wizard shit, warring clans, romance, and a wizard whose name is fucking Shimrod (in case you need more convincing).
Those are my 20 novel recommendations! I'm gonna come back to add some nonfiction, comics, and myth resources for running games in fantastical ancient worlds. You can read SpeedRune, my ancient fantasy game, here.
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lepurcinus · 7 months
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I'm going to find it highly insulting that in most (if not all) Watership Down adaptations they leave out the rabbit folklore part so much. They always adapt one or two stories and the others never appear or are told in a super abbreviated almost lost form.
I don't know about you, but I think that was one of the things that got me hooked on WD the most when I first read it. To me it was so amazing and clever the idea of creating an animal version of our myths based on their perception of the world, it was like a way to get me into a more into a mindset so different from my own.
Not only that, they detract from THEIR IMPORTANCE. The stories are meant to function as a "middle ground" a moment of relaxation and fun where the angst of the moment is set aside, not only for the author but for the rabbits themselves, as a connection. But beyond being a simple relaxation, the stories HAVE A WEIGHT on our characters. The story of El-ahrairah's blessing and the story of the black rabbit gave our protagonists the strength and will to go on and be like El-ahrairah, the story of the lettuce reminded us of the importance of cunning and trickery as part of the rabbit's life, the story of the trial gave weight to the role of Kehaar and the mouse, the story of Rowsby Woof gave Fiver the vision of the dog, even the half-told story of the fox in the water was important to make the female rabbits feel good during the siege of Efrafa.
Seriously, one of the things I loved most about WD was that whole role of culture and myth (something I personally have always been fascinated by) seen even in non-human animals. It's so sad how little weight people give them, they really deserve to someday be represented in all their glory.
In the movie we only had the animation of the prologue (simply beautiful that yes, of my favorite animated sequences of all) and a half-worked idea of the King's Lettuce ("cut the tone" my eggs, Rosen).
The '99 series was the only one that more or less gave them more weight even adding one or two new ones. It's appreciated, but I still felt them very empty and the black rabbit one was never realized (despite there being plans for a chapter dedicated to that, heck).
Of course the miniseries doesn't differ that much from the movie, just the prologue part. But at least it was kind of nice to have at least parts of other stories told occasionally (I would have loved to hear that version of the black rabbit story in full).
(I would even go so far as to say that other WD inspired xf stories have failed to reach this "height" either. Either because those stories are always left very briefly aside or the story is so fanciful that they just don't matter/impact in the same way).
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𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐝𝐞𝐯𝐢𝐥 𝐈 𝐤𝐧𝐨𝐰 (Dark Rafe x Sarah fanfic)
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Summary: This was a draft I had in my notes app on my iPhone for my first ever attempt at a fanfic from last year. I don't have any recollection of it because I wrote it when I was drunk, and it was supposed to be a dark thriller-like read because I am inspired by the author, Karin Slaughter. A trigger warning: this will not sit well with some readers because it has incestuous elements. Basically, the story takes place over a year after the events of Ward dying, and Rafe's deep obsessive hatred for Sarah gets the best of him, and it gets really disturbing. I think I attempted a chapter in a half or two of this story. I probably don't want it to be a one-shot. If someone is actually content enough to stomach reading this and wants a continuation of it, I will write more chapters. Please know that this is a concept and just a work of fiction. If you're not into this trope, feel free to disengage from this read. Side note: this is pretty much a continuation from chapter one but not really finished because, like I said, this is from last year. I wrote it when I was drunk, and when I sobered up, I felt like this was so sick. I don’t think I want to finish it and publish it and get it cancelled, but I saw other writers stories that spoke about controversial stuff, so this is going up. If anyone who can withstand this read can handle it, I’d attempt to finish this chapter and make a third. 𝙲𝚑𝚊𝚙𝚝𝚎𝚛 𝚝𝚠𝚘: 𝙸𝚗 𝚝𝚘𝚝𝚊𝚕 𝚌𝚊𝚙𝚝𝚒𝚟𝚒𝚝𝚢.
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Rafe removed Sarah off the ground and propped her motionless body into his arms she wasn’t dead, but she was out cold until further notice right now it was just him and her and the pain that kept them company all these years. The pain that his father’s favoritism for her was a wedge between their relationship. Even with his father, being dead, he still affected him traumatically, even if it was from beyond the grave Sarah’s body felt light as a feather in her torpid state cradled in his arms his hold on her secured so he could keep his balance as he was approaching the master bedroom of the mansion, the room now his since his stepmother and father, we’re gone Luckily, the bedroom door was already open, so he didn’t have to worry about stumbling his way in there with her. Rafe lowered Sarah onto  the King sized bed. He didn’t know how long he had before she regain consciousness, and he didn’t know what he could do. To keep her there, seeing her felt triggering because she reminded him of everything he lacked she had John B who loved her unconditionally. While Rafe was only looked at for what he could provide, whether that being his father’s good old, reliable lapdog or nothing but a fien that brought in Barry money and gold because his cocaine addiction everything for him always came under a condition Rafe gently stroked Sarah‘s cheek and removed her messy hair away from her face you’re going to pay for the life that you stole from me Sarah if it wasn’t for you being born, Mom wouldn’t have died giving birth to you if it wasn’t for you being brought into existence, dad may actually of made me feel loved instead of putting all his focus on you he said in a very wrathful tone of voice whispering in her ear he put his index finger on the side of her neck and checked her pulse well, it looks like I didn’t really quite take your breath away because you’re still breathing, he says under his breath sarcastically then instantly Sarah’s eyes shot up and she was out of her comatose state where the hell am I she says, frightened and dumbfounded, when she took a moment to process her surroundings, and realized that she was face-to-face with Rafe she started to scream Rafe put his hand over her mouth, shushing her nice to see you respawned island, princess but I’m not trying to get hearing loss he says growing frustrated 
Now then I’m pretty sure you don’t want me to smother you I’ll take my hand away from your mouth If you promise you won’t scream nod your head. If you understand, Sarah just looks at him blankly. Do you understand he screams which startled her Sarah nodded her head in cooperation. She was scared shitless, and even surprised that she woke up from his strangulation towards her. 
I know dad would of wanted us to stick together as a family and keep his legacy alive I feel that would of been his dying wish he says looking at her intently, grabbing her arm hoping to get a sense of consolation Sarah swatted his hand away from her and sat up meeting his gaze Listen, Rafe, dad is gone now you don’t have to keep trying to base your identity around him anymore you can start a new life one that doesn’t to have to be this obsession with chasing his approval she replied anxiously plopping off the bed on her feet keeping her distance her eyes set on the doorway of the master bedroom typical fried Sarah do you even hear yourself you didn’t even keep your promise when I ask you pacifically to keep dad safe you’re the last person to see him alive and he’s dead because of you he shouts rising up instantly and shifted toward her feeling overwhelmed with anger him she flinches in fear and backs away from him from being eye to eye with her Sarah was at a lost for words she couldn’t even open up her mouth to say anything in this moment his words cutting in deep there was no denying that there was some truth to his statement she wanted to feel sympathetic toward him apart of her understanding of his resentment towards her because he always had to prove himself to be deemed worthy of his father’s love and she was put on a pedestal and was the person that always got in the way of him getting attention from their dad she turn towards him and shifted her eyes grazing into his attempting to read his facial expression it’s like he has this switch where he can go from indifferent to unstable you’re gonna do everything I tell you to do do you fucking hear me. He snaps immediately Sarah starts to bolt out the master bedroom door and rushes to the mansion staircase I’m not done with you. He screams chasing after her. Rafe you don’t have to do this, you can let me go she pleads 
he started to gain in on her if she didn’t get away from him there’s no telling what he would do her mind was racing a mile a minute she remembered when they where kids they would play hide and seek and when he found her he’d tickle her to death but this is modern day they aren’t kids anymore if she’s sought out he was gonna hurt her Sarah manage to outrun him and snuck her way into a downstairs closet She tried so hard not to hyperventilate Sarah’s phone starts to vibrate in her back denim shorts pocket shit he’s gonna hear it. She says under her breath, trying to remain quiet as possible the closet had shutter panels that were partly cracked open she wanted to be able to monitor Rafes movements Sarah grabbed her phone out her pocket it started to light up with a text notification from John B saying closed up the store. When will you be back home? There’s leftover pizza in fridge. Sarah tries to share her location with John B but her phone dies on her shit I’m fucked. I’m so fucked she thinks she whispered to herself shaken up in fear tears welling up in her eyes you can’t hide from me Sarah she felt her brothers voice getting closer and closer and saw his figure threw the closet door shutters she puts her hands over her mouth to muffle her panicked whimpers before she knows it the door knob on the closet starts to turn she jumps up terrified holding onto it with all her might her grip tightened not wanting to let go because she had no idea what was coming next if she let herself be caught by him I don’t wanna die she thinks to herself shaking crying so hard she felt her tear ducts would get swollen I know you’re in there Sarah Why don’t you come out and play? he snarled simultaneously he breaks through the closet door smashing the antique wooden panels with his bare hands Sarah started to scream so loud that she felt their would be no more air in her lungs left she couldn’t even make sense of anything anymore she just froze in fear Rafe snatched her up by her arms and picks her up throwing Sarah over his shoulder why are you doing this she said kicking and screaming attempting to be loosen from his hold dragging her away her hands beating into his shoulders and striking him in the side of his neck which caused him to groan in pain making him react angrily gnashing his teeth and halting in his 
steps pulling her hair so hard that the muscles in her neck felt strained that she was coming onto a whiplash You’re gonna calm down and be a good girl, right? he asked the pitch in his voice heightening in a domineering way watching her struggling to get out his grasp with lifeless eyes as she started to whine in defeat her refusal to give a answer right away caused him to be frustrated and pull at her hair even tighter as if he would scalp a piece of her hair out y-yes I’ll be good she says whimpering in pain hoping her words will ease his hands off her head that’s a good girl he says, letting out this smug that he had her complacent finally and flings her head back over his shoulders pulling her away from the downstairs storage closet he broke down taking his steps towards the staircase reaching upstairs in this moment Sarah wish Rafe would just die and this would all be over and she be somewhere safe she felt him climbing upstairs with her being brought back to the same place she tried so desperately escaping from 
There’s no better life waiting out there for you Sarah everything you touched dies here is a place for rebirth and we can start anew and be a family again he says talking into her neck him making out the sentence sounding strange Rafe drops Sarah onto the ground of the master bedroom causing her to fall flat on her face he slammed the door shut and locked it behind him she starts sobbing let me out of here please Rafe just let me go she cries out beating her fist into the bedroom floor sorry no can do sunshine this is only the beginning he replies squatting down looking at her pathetic state of despair he started to laugh manically I’m gonna have so much fun with you he says while his set motives could be insidious or unusual. Come here he commands grabbing her wrist pulling her forcefully toward him she tried resisting his touch but felt herself to weak from being overpowered by his strength whats the matter cat got your tongue he questioned not amused by her silence you always been daddy’s little princess got everything handed to you while I was left high and dry trying to find that love from my father that was only honored to you he lashed out at her enraged it’s not my fault  Rafe a lot of things where unforeseen occurrences yes we faced two different experiences but we are in the same predicament we both lost dad and we both are wounded from trauma she spat out shakily trying to find his humanity within him Sarah was crying to the point she had a runny nose all she wanted was to be out of this chaotic situation please just let me go she pleads 
Rafe ignores her attempts of convincing him of letting her go and rises her up and squeezes her hand pulling her to follow him into the bathroom and near the shower get yourself cleaned up he demands Sarah just stands there lost and in a daze um can I have some privacy please she requested hopefully thinking if she could just borrow some time and come up with a plan to sneak out the window and break free from all this the sooner you strip naked and just hurry this up the sooner we can get past this he says deviously you’re 
not just gonna stand there and watch me she asks him thinking he’s unserious her eyes widening in fear his patience was running thin take your clothes off he ordered grabbing the back of her neck tightly causing her to yelp does it look like I’m fucking around do it he yells Sarah felt disgusted by his sick demands it was a shrouded mystery what he had up his sleeve she knew that he didn’t want her out of his sight it was to risky but couldn’t he atleast have a form of human decency and respect her space and let shower in peace you’re not moving fast enough he hollered Sarah started to tremble slowly unbuttoning her white denim shorts just like that nice and slow he uttered out his tone sounding more sinister Sarah felt chills all over her body as she felt compelled  to continue undressing herself she pulled her shorts down over her ankles and gently pushed them off to the side with her feet  followed by her pulling her crop top over her head easing it off her tossing it to the ground leaving her exposed to her floral pattern laced bra and panties let me get a good look at you he said taking this moment in. (To be continued)
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bi-widower-dads · 2 months
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bi-widower-dads' February Fic Recs: Canon
Thank you to everyone who submitted recs for us! We've done some sorting and collating, and we've got two posts for you: AUs and Canon-'verse - and a whole load of excellent fic for you to get stuck into while we wait for Barduil Month in April! Without further ado, here are the canon fic recs, featuring tags, links, summaries, and all the reasons why the recommenders think you should give these fics a try!
Header image by mod @piyo-13!
(a note about tags and trigger warnings: tags are selected from those on AO3 as being those that best describe the story for the purposes of this event; trigger warnings are supplied by the recommenders and may not be comprehensive - your mileage may vary. We've tried our best to include Tumblr handles wherever we can, but if we've missed yours out and you want it included, just let us know!)
One-shots
Scenes From a Not-So-Clandestine Romance by MasterofAllImagination / @cutlerbeckettt | G | 3258 words | tags: 5+1 things, so much fluff it's sickening, seriously don't even read this
Summary: As the relationship between Bard and Thranduil grows beyond merely that of two allies, they become proportionately blind to how obvious their displays of affection are to their people. Pretty soon their feelings are an open secret shared among everyone in Mirkwood and Dale-- except the kings themselves. (or, five times someone caught Bard and Thranduil secretly kissing, and the one time they did it in public) What do you love about this fic? The author's completely correct that this is just So Much Fluff. It's great, it's cozy, it's a palate cleanser that makes you go "aww" and giggle a little at how oblivious they are.
We'll lay here for years or for hours by bispecimen | M | 5000 words | tags: canon divergence, different first meeting, animal death, hunting, could be considered canon compliant since it still works w future events, dilf vs dilf parenting techniques, canon-typical violence
Summary: "The leaves were rolling, green and healthy. Swirling around the legs of the Bowman as if they were about to bring some magical creature in his presence. But Bard didn’t feel like anything good was about to be brought in front of his eyes. The stillness of the air was suffused with something nocive. This part was forbidden for a reason. The deeper he went, the longer he stayed. He knew, he knew that." What do you love about this fic? Am possibly biased because I did the art for this, but lovely and lyrical!
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon by RC_McLachlan | G | 5288 words | tags: none
Summary: The Battle of the Five Armies threatened to unmake the world, but The Negotiations of the Three Kings might actually succeed. Or, a short lesson on the lifecycle of dandelions. What do you love about this fic? Great writer I've followed for a long time!
more than words can wield the matter by BiSquared / @scary-grace | M | 5422 words | tags: cultural differences, love letters, miscommunication, accidental marriage, getting together, laws and customs of the eldar are somewhat followed, POV Bard the Bowman, post-BotFA, as canon-compliant as barduil gets
Summary: It might be uncommon, but Bard knows it’s not unheard of for humans to share a single night of passion and part ways in the morning – or if not to part ways, then at least never to meet as lovers again. Apparently it’s unheard of among elves, because the first letter that arrives from Mirkwood, two weeks after the elves’ departure for their forest, is significantly less businesslike than expected. What do you love about this fic? The premise is funny enough that it could have come across as crack, but it creates actual narrative tension and a satisfactorily cathartic ending.
The Well-Worn Path of Words by Ias | T | 10,725 words | tags: letters, slow burn, pining, miscommunication, love confessions, epistolary
Summary: It wasn't so strange that Thranduil would call him a friend. And yet the word seemed to draw them closer like a length of string, binding them together, yet still so fragile. [In which Thranduil and Bard begin writing each other letters over the long winter after the battle.] What do you love about this fic? Fantastic epistolary fic from a great Barduil author!
Multi-chapter (in progress)
Language of the Forest by BaccaratBlack | T | 1,095 words | tags: victorian flower language, sort of unrequited feelings, cultural differences, cultural misunderstandings, courtship, secret admirer
Summary: Bard is perplexed by elven courtship rituals. Thranduil is very determined and unaccustomed to not having his way. What do you love about this fic? Who doesn't like a fic with the themes of courtship, flowers and a "secret" admirer?
Multi-chapter (complete)
A Tale of Love and Longing (as told by Galion) by jotunblood | T | 39,288 words | tags: courtship, secret relationship, developing relationship, sexual tension, light angst, post-BotFA, slow burn, Galion POV, Galion is a good friend
Summary: Galion knew all the almost imperceptible ways joy, anguish, and hate could change his King’s face. He also knew-- Thranduil’s denial be damned-- exactly how he looked when he was pining. What do you love about this fic? We see Thranduil's and Bard's relationship develop through Galion's POV and he's the best BFF/Wing Man a King could ask for.
Blossoming Spring by SlytherinImpala | T | 56,210 words | tags: fluff, post-BotFA, snark, slow burn, healing, friends to lovers, scars, movie canon, first kiss, getting together
Summary: Bard and Thranduil meet again as winter gives way to spring following of the Battle of Five Armies. What do you love about this fic? I love the gentle snarkiness between the 2 characters and how they slowly learn to open up to one another. They feel very in character and when they fall in love it doesn't feel abrupt. Definitely worth a read if you love a gentle Barduil slowburn.
Series
The Kings of the North by Evandar | T | 14,240 words | tags: partial fix-it, interspecies romance, fluff, blind thranduil, self-esteem issues, communication
Summary: There is unease in the north, as old alliances must be rebuilt and leadership learned. Bard is confused, mostly by King Thranduil, and King Fili is determined to be the best king he can be. Sigrid, meanwhile, wishes things could go back to the way they were. What do you love about this fic? This was one of the first series I ever read for barduil and definitely played a huge role in getting me into the ship in the first place!
Boundaries 'Verse by Sir_Nemo | T | 30,967 words | tags: fluff, getting to know each other, getting together, family bonding
Summary: Bard has been working for the elves for years, never actually meeting one, until one day he notices an elf watching him work. The elf becomes a constant in his life, and the two of them slowly start warming up to each other. What do you love about this fic? Bard and Thranduil's personalities really shine through in their conversations, which I feel is a core component of the plot, and makes for a very stable relationship that the story can lean on.
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cosmo-watches-movies · 9 months
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Wilde (1997)
Triggerwarning: Homophobia, Sex (in the movie, not depicted in this blogpost)
Plot: A part of Oscar Wilde’s life story.
Spoilers beyond this
Michael plays Robbie Ross, a good friend to Oscar Wilde and, delicately put, his first male lover.
Following are my incoherent thoughts as I was watching the movie: (some gifs for context, for the other parts watch the movie and you'll get it)
starting out chill with Oscar meeting his future wife
oh who might this dashing young fella be?
lol that didn’t work did it?
Nevermind it did work
I was so not prepared for this
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This guy has a lot of thoughts in his head and none of them are holy
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Bitch what
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If someone looked at me like that I’d instantly fall for them too. Man brought his A-Game
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Oh my god this is going too fast even for me and I’m just watching
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Why would you give him lines like that?
(I refuse to clip the next part, I don't know who might read this)
What in the what I barely got into the movie, why would you do this to me
I have questions
I have so many emotions at once right now I actually feel a bit sick
I’m 16 Minutes in and my heart is breaking at the thought of where this might be going
Okay, I got used to the fact that I am actually watching a movie about gay men
Me watching a movie about a gay author: (☆ω☆ )
Me when theres actual portayal of intimacy between men: (○ □ ○ )
I swear I’m so normal about this.
Wtf Oscar why would you drop Robbie like that. I get that this was an affair, but like this? He picked that other guy up like an apple from a tree.
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Watch Robbie take this like the king he is
Oscar met yet another guy (Bosie) and seems to fall in love with him and guy #2 litterally wants to khs and/or Bosie, while Robbie has only respect, acceptance and love to give.
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lol taste of your own medicie, huh?
I hate Bosie
I love Robbie
Drama between Bosie and Wilde, which results in Oscar being sentenced to two years in prison
Oof that speech Oscar held in court tho, right in the feels
Robbie is an absolute treasure of a person. Get yourself a man like him. Don’t settle for less.
Wtf all this stress and heartbreak for Oscar and Bosie to break up after three months, the world is a cruel place
- End of incoherent thoughts-
That was heartbreaking in so many ways. The main story obviously is unbelievably tragic but we shall focus on other things. There are a lot of strong performances in this movie, the whole cast was quite good. You can strongly feel the love Robbie has for Oscar, he has this soft tone when he talks to or about him, he wants him to be happy even if it means that he himself wont be. He accepts that Oscar doesn’t love him the same way and still supports his friend under any circumstances. It's not just in the dialouge, it's also in the way Robbie talks to and looks at Oscar. He’s pure kindness, love and devotion.
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He cares so much for him it's breaking my poor little heart :c
On a less serious note, my guy really went ahead and had his first on-screen kiss be a gay kiss!?! Fuckin hell! And he did so well! Icon, king, legend, right from the start!
Because there aren't enough gifs in this already, have some more little moments I enjoyed :3
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✨Puppy dog eyes✨
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Good save xD
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Why would you hold it like that?
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I don't even know why, just thought he looked dashing in this scene
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Me too, Robbie, me too.
I probably could've written more, but that wouldn't do the movie and characters justice. Bosie's full brattiness alone is something I couldn't even capture in gifs. Kudos to Jude Law, he really made me hate that character. He's the exact opposite of Robbie. They had only two scenes together I think, but it's awesome to see their personalities clash.
I’d say you should check this movie out, especially if you’re lgbt+ yourself obviously. And then go ahead and read Oscar Wildes works, they're queer history and in general important literature anyone should know.
At the end of this I have learned that I, in fact, don’t hate love drama, I just like it if it's gay. And preferably has a certain actor in it.
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I feel like people try too hard to keep Sauron "in character", to the point that they super-impose the 3rd Age LOTR Sauron onto the 2nd Age TROP Sauron. To the point that people attribute everything he does to a manipulation, thinking that the guy does everything as planned, as if he can't do an action because he just feels like it, or make a decision based on emotions. That is just... Not how I saw even LOTR Sauron. Plus, a lot can happen to a guy in several millenia, yk? (And I believe we will even see this road of his in later seasons).
I will give you the scene where he apologises for killing Galadriel's brother, for example.
Rewatching it, you can absolutely tell that Sauron seriously intended to stay in Numenor and do nothing but simple smith work.
He wasn't lying later to Gal when he said he had all but given up at this time frame - he really did. In that moment, he believed himself to be a giant failure, all his plans had fallen through, even the orks mutinied against him and his close servant/friend (because it is obvious he and Adar were close - 1) how else would one disembowel fucking Sauron unless he trusted his back to that person? 2) he would NOT act THAT angry if that betrayal wasn't personal on some level) betrayed him and murdered him - so at this stage he is in the "to hell with it all, I give up, I am a loser, let me just smith cutlery and horse shoes in peace" frame of mind.
But then comes Galadriel asking him to help her take the Southlands, refusing to take "no" for an answer.
As a side note, I find this part of the scene interesting:
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Love the actor's work as well here - how his stare becomes vacant as he loses himself in the dark memories.
(And he is turned away from Galadriel here. She doesn't see his face at all. At. All. So, unless he is trying to manipulate coals, the emotions on his face are. All. Real.)
"You don't know what I did. How I survived...
And, as he gazes into the fire, it's not his memories that come (as would be expected out of this cimetographic tactic), but the present scene of the villagers submitting and kneeling to Adar and the orks.
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Legitimately, his words here are narrating over the people kneeling to Adar. Right over this moment. I kid you not, go rewatch it, if you do not believe me.
This, here, is a 100% tell that, at least in this story, as TROP authors intended it, the idea is that Sauron's continuous service to Melkor was a matter of survival. You don't make such an obvious parallel unintentionally.
So, while he came to serve him probably out of his young foolishness and ambition, but that, down the road, it became simply impossible to change sides, even if he wanted too, unless he was willing to sacrifice his life for it.
Going back to the point. So, Sauron, as Galadriel asks him to abandon his own plans and help her with her quest, demands that she gives him an honest answer why she pursues her goals.
She turns away from him in tears and:
"The company I led mutinied against me"
Mmmm?🤔
"My closest friend conspired with the King to exile me"
MMMMM?🤔🤔🤔
(what could it be reminding me of I wonder??)
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What? What is it, Sauron? Why are you making this sad version of a surprised Pikachu face?? And to her back no less, where she can't even see you doing your obviously manipulative surprised sad faces😆
(Seriously, guys, he even does a small gasp here)
And Galadriel's next words:
"Because they could no longer distinguish me from the evil I was fighting"
...beyond being a hilarious irony (because, yk? said evil is standing right behind you, Gal), are supposed to clarify for those that didn't get it from his shocked face what exactly ran through Sauron's mind at that moment, that surprised him so much:
"We are alike".
Bingo. So there you have it. What made Sauron change his mind and follow Galadriel was not some masterplan where he decided that her quest to the Southlands would be very beneficial for him - but simply he recognised a kindred spirit and he felt he could understand what she was going through and empathised with her, decided to help her.
Bonus - after he just discovered for himself that they have much in common and apologised for killing her brother, she says:
"Your sorrow cannot ease my pain.
And nor will a hammer and tongs ease yours.
There is no peace to be found for you here.
And nor for me.
No lasting peace in any path, but that which lies across the sea.
I have fought for centuries to earn mine.
This is how you earn yours."
(even her words here are perfectly paralleled, casting them as mirrors of each other)
And after saying this she leaves. And he stays looking like this:
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- which, again, no one is witnessing, except the empty smithy.
So, in conclusion, Sauron follows Galadriel because: a) he feels a sense of guilt towards her; b) he cannot ignore it because he understands her and he feels they are alike; c) a person he feels they have a lot in common with is sure that "there's no peace to be found for the likes of us here", so yes, it makes him first hesitate and then change his mind about staying in Numenor and living a simple ordinary life; d) while he did plan to just live as a simple smith in Numenor, it was never what he actually wanted for himself. His failures together with his guilt made him give up, but Galadriel gave him hope that he could be something more and do something good. And that was always his dream and his ambition.
I believe it's not before they came to Eregion and he heard about the mirthril and the Elves' plight that it all came to him how he could restart his previous plans that he had abandoned because of continuous failures (and Adar physically banishing him from existence).
PS: and no, it is not Galadriel's fault, because nothing she said here was wrong. Sauron stood on a crossroad and he had a real chance here - where he was wrong-footed and doubted all his previous beliefs - he had a chance to choose the right path. But instead he chose subjurgation of others (and I do not believe it was because of his nature as Dark, but because of his previous experiences, what they shaped him out to be). If anything, the one to blame is Adar with his untimely volcano show, because - who knows? - had they had more time, maybe Sauron could have found the right footing. Instead, before he could unlearn his worse life lessons and learn new better ones, he, sort of, came to the Tree of Knowledge in Eden.
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regarding-stories · 3 months
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Until it breaks: Suspension of disbelief has limits
Nothing deals damage to suspension of disbelief like cold hard facts. Because once the analytical part of your brain kicks in, it's all over. All the Fridge Logic will unravel, and frankly, the enjoyment drains out the watching or reading experience.
Now, I picked this topic because of a recent Lupin III Part 6 episode I watched. Being one of the longest-running shows with endless material released over the course of decades, Lupin III has in general good writing. Or let's say it like this: Typically the authors nail the characters.
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Yes, part 6 in general is a highly enjoyable show that can bank on the fact that our main characters - Lupin, Jigen, Fujiko, Goemon, and Zenigata - are well fleshed-out, recognizable characters that you are just gladly along for the ride with and the general fun factor of the show ensures that you merely experience the differing quality of episodes as minor ups and downs along the journey.
There are exceptions, though.
When it holds
Lupin III is basically revived as "parts," where each part could be considered a big season. I'm currently watching Part 4, and several episodes definitely have the quality of Fridge Logic - you might question things after the episode finishes, but you're basically okay with how things unfold while they still do.
One episode, hitting that slightly noir vibe, focuses on Inspector Zenigata, Lupin's eternal complement.
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The show aired almost ten years ago, so forgive me for spoilers.
The basic plot of the episode "Until the Full Moon Wanes" revolves around every scoundrel in the world believing that the widow of a media mogul sits on a huge hidden fortune because her husband seeded the rumor before he died. The first climax of the episode seems to be convincing the world that this was indeed a lie - a cooperation between Lupin and Zenigata. In the denouement we learn that the fortune actually exists and the widow wanted potential thieves off her back, Lupin shows up to steal it and is finally thwarted by Zenigata.
The episode really revolves about human folly, with a media mogul rescuing a girl from sexual violence, taking her as his beloved wife, then completely scorning her when she cheats on him once - including marking her body. This theme of scorn beyond the grave and its somewhat noir vibe playing on human passion and the unreliability of love and character are enough to keep us entertained until we get our inevitable finale.
I'd say this one stretches suspension of disbelief but doesn't break it. Though it raises questions - even if she had a huge fortune hidden, wouldn't it be easier to own it, hire guards, and just enjoy it? Furthermore, how did Lupin and his gang intend to steal the fortune?It's gold. It weighs tons and tons. (And yes, it's enough gold to be considered the reserves of a country. Did the author not watch "Die Hard with a Vengeance"?) It's also stacked in the most stupid way possible to impress the audience. Once you start to think about it, the story unravels and falls apart. But I'd bet while it goes on with its (somewhat forced) twists and turns, you're willing to follow it.
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When it breaks
There are, however, some episodes too stupid to live, and so far the unrivaled king of the trash heap is "The Jet-Black Diamond". I'll spoiler this one so you don't have to watch it.
So, some small wooden dolls are somehow supposed to lead to a treasure. But the story makes no sense, no matter which way you look at it.
The central theme behind the treasure hunt is supposedly a love story. A somehow Japanese woman in Brazil falls in love with a pirate who basically sacks her village but spares her. (Because seeing people die you spent your life with is conducive to romance. Maybe she had Stockholm Syndrome.) They know they have little time so they concoct a plan to hide some treasure and meet again. Which never happens because the pirate gets executed shortly after and she commits suicide.
This might make sense on the surface but just wait for the rest...
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The clues they leave lead to a cashew tree with magical red glowing flowers that only blossoms every 75 years. The biological facts themselves are mindboggling - how does it benefit the damn tree to blossom only every 75 years? And how is it so exact over such a long period of time?? And why is everyone showing up at the right time to see it???
Breathe. Slow, deep breaths.
So this basically means they planned to meet again when they were around a hundred. Instead of, you know, like five years later.
Then... piracy in the Caribbean and around South America was a phenomenon largely limited to the 16th and 17th centuries, with stragglers hanging on until the 18th century. Steam vessels and larger national navies ended it for good in the 19th century. (To put it very roughly.) The episode itself can be assumed to be set in 2021 when Part 6 aired. So, are we to assume that old-fashioned piracy occurred in Brazil in the mid of the 20th century? The age of airplanes and nuclear bombs? (Piracy persists but is a rather local phenomenon in the world, relying on quick hit-and-run raids.)
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What is the treasure, actually? Pepper. Some special pepper, that supposedly ended up making the village prosperous. This is probably an allusion to the times when pepper was still highly valuable, something which was maybe true up to the 17th century (as a little research shows).
What we really have here is an author shoe-horning a pirate story into Lupin III, and somehow trying to tie it to a love story and a living relative. (Instead of a long-lost pirate treasure.) But frankly, the whole thing fails over and over again. The finale is devoid of any logic. Even the dolls are somehow important because their patterns help identify the tree by its blossom patterns. The only tree blooming in that particular year, looking entirely magical and obvious BY ITSELF!!
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(Also some young local thugs show up to gang up on the old lady and her company because everybody thinks about the ages old treasure all the time and so the arrival of a Japanese lady is clearly stirring up the area.)
To make the offense even worse, just when the story focuses on Fujiko being in the lead for quite a while, Lupin shows up as a drone projecting a hologram acting as Captain Exposition, stealing her thunder. They couldn't be arsed to write him in properly, but they couldn't leave him off-screen for five minutes or have somebody else have the spotlight. Wow, that was horrible writing altogether.
And here we have it - it qualifies as a story. It's tied together by a plot. Events happen, characters appear, and the same mixture of twists and turns and a lack of treasure at the end (for Lupin or Fujiko) appears, but it doesn't work. You could be forgiven for not knowing about the history of piracy, but the notion of a tree with such magical properties is not a twist to a story, it's a ridiculous device meant to introduce one twist too many to a poorly written story.
Because for some reason the author was so focused on thwarting the thieves so much he had to set up an entirely unbelievable gotcha even for Lupin standards. A show where people evade bullets near point blank range or where eating a steak can restore Lupin's blood loss within hours. It's actually quite the accomplishment!
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nerdgatehobbit · 2 days
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13 Books
Right, I was tagged by @old-man-ghost a few days ago and I'm finally getting around to doing this!
1: The last book I read: Disney Princess: Beyond the Tiara, which was an interesting look at the involved films and their impact. It was self-congratulatory at places, but I think that's the trade-off for it being an official book.
2: A Book I recommend: Dinotopia by James Gurney, between the gorgeous art, the inventive world-building, and the great characters. The franchise as a whole is one of my favorites, but this is the book that started it all.
3: A book that I couldn't put down: I read the first nine a while back, but I really enjoyed the first volume of Spy x Family. I need to get around to reading the tenth & eleventh volumes.
5: A book on my TBR: In addition to the aforementioned duo and quite a few other books, I'm waiting until I'm further into The Librarians as a show before I read the 3 tie-in novels.
6: A book I've put down: This isn't probably what's meant, but it's the only recent example. Over a month ago, I checked out The Secret Life of the American Musical from the library specifically to just skim it to get a clearer grasp of the different types of songs in Broadway musicals. Though I did spot its section acknowledging the issues of relying on star power for musicals, which seems relevant to what went on with the Sweeney Todd revival.
7: A book on my wish list: This one is kinda silly, but I am curious about Ash's Atlas, it's just that I've been reluctant to seriously look into getting it because I know it's very likely not be a pseudo-guidebook, and more likely just acts to recap anime events. I'd like a Pokémon book that does more with discussing the geography, history, man-built places, & notable people.
8: A favorite book from childhood: I'm going to go for Midnight for Charlie Bone, the first in the Children of the Red King series. I didn't get to read them all as a kid, but the first few I definitely did. I still have a soft spot for this series, though the older I get the more I wish for a perspective flip novel(s) showing what the adults were getting up to, as it's very clear that they're getting up to stuff off-page in addition to what Charlie and his friends see. I'm definitely anxious about how the potential upcoming TV adaptation will turn out.
9: A book you would give to a friend: Hmm, it would depend on the friend's tastes. Maybe I'd be selfish and give them the Project Gutenberg link to Once on a Time just so I'd have someone to talk about it with. It's one of my favorite books (it definitely can be seen as a precursor to The Princess Bride and Galavant).
10: The most books you own by a single author: It's probably a toss-up between Tamora Pierce and Rick Riordan. Both of them are well into the double digits.
11: A nonfiction book you own: I have Team of Rivals, which is a really interesting look at how Abraham Lincoln got elected and then turned the other candidates into his cabinet during the Civil War.
12: What are you currently reading: I've only read the prologue to the Belle Mirrorverse manga, but I liked it. I'm pretty much just here for the BATB content (as seen by me currently having Funko Belle as my icon), as I didn't play the game for long. This says more about my minimal gaming skills than the game itself (no, seriously, I struggle with LEGO & Pokémon at times). I am curious how this altered story will play out.
13: What are you planning on reading next: I still need to reread Sense and Sensibility, especially as I keep meaning to locate the new movie (I like the gifs I've seen, I just need to find the time/energy to figure out how to temporarily get Hallmark access so I can watch it).
I'm on desktop at the moment and don't have a readily accessible current photo of any of my bookshelves. I'll try to remember to do something later and add it in a reblog when I'm on my phone.
This was fun, thanks for tagging me!
I'll tag @asokatanos @magic-owl @jadelotusflower @mylittleredgirl
@ladytharen @bex-pendragon @fantasysci5 and anyone else who'd like to do it!
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nicnavarrocage · 6 months
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In addition to my MSPA ideas
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Prison Part 2, also known as Jailbreak: Extended Play, is basically a different version of the Jailbreak adventure, including dialogue, animation, narrative shiftings from 1st person to 2nd person between characters, and even interactive pages... IF I CAN CODE THEM. Each stick figure character will be named, and some will look distinct.
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This is the "Beyond Canon Mockery" adventure I mentioned on my previous post, also known as "Homestuck: Beyond Fucked Up" or "Beyond Awful." It's a changearound of Beyond Canon's story, with worsened content, but mocked in a self-aware way, has a lot of pop culture stuff, also mocks the controversy and culture around Homestuck, and introduces a character named " The Story Wizard," an obnoxious, plot fiddling, story changing, retconning, King of Town alien who's always here to make the story worse. In this adventure, John actually hates everything around him, probably just me making fun of his descent into depression, wheras in the original comic he's an emo James Rolfe, while here, he's nihilistic.
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Freeplay is an adventure with no plot, no story, no gods, no masters, no author, just fun, but a few set of rules. You can do anything you want here. It's the infinite canvas of MS Paint Adventures, with loads of creativity for one simple panel.
There are a trinity of commands, however. NULLIFY will reset everything, REGRESS will revert a command that someone has submitted, and DISORDER will scramble the story you create into random, inconvenient places.
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Nepal Silo was an adventure I was thinking about earlier this year. It's about a group of young researchers who live on a cold, snowy landscape, sometimes peppered with aliens and oddities. It's gonna have the same style as Homestuck, but it's not gonna have that "There's a teenager in his room and he shall be named, plus a world ending supergame" bullshit.
I was also planning to give this adventure a Kelly Bailey inspired soundtrack, obviously because of the planned influence from Half Life.
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And here is one I dare to create. Adventure Boy! Planned to be an adventure about some kid (oddly looking similar to Zoosmell Pooplord) in a fantasy world that doesn't know him at all. The main, titular character is extremely joyful, almost stereotype joyful, and yet the world he's in ranges from dark to careless. Yeah, it's obviously one big trope made into an MS Paint Adventure, but I don't care.
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Another one I'm thinking about is this oddball. It's a story about your favorite spider bitch doing really stupid stuff towards every other troll in the style of a Homestar Runner storybook (See: Sbemail 100 or Homestar Enters the Strongest Man in the World Contest). Later in the book, the protagonist redeems herself off of being too mean.
But least could we forget, another project in the making. It's been done before, but we'll do it again. Comedy gold, adequate. Irony, stunning.
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SWEET BOR AND HELLA JYEFF VIDYA GAEM DUDES INNERACTIVE COMIC made by ya boy Dave s. with iorny
Yes, I'm doing a Sweet Bro & Hella Jeff adventure. This one is more gaming based than slice of life or adventure. Think of it as early SBaHJ.
There's also gonna be a few new "bros" introduced into this comic. One's with a green shirt whom I call "THAT DUDE," and a pink shirt named "STAN-SO-CASH." Does Geromy count as a bro? WHO KNOWS!
At last, we have this.
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An MS Paint Adventures adaptation of Homestar Runner's "Thy Dungeonman." This is basically gonna be a warm-up to everything else I'll do on MSPFA, sort of a practice to see if I can actually work on what I can correctly. I ended up doing Jailbreak: Extended Play first. The command system of Thy Dungeonman would be really hard to replicate in the MS Paint Adventures format, so suggestions will be sent one by one. Or I could just do the Bard Quest treatment.
So uh, BYE!
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jackoshadows · 1 year
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The amount of big names in the fandom immediately discarding the strong possibility of Jon becoming king is baffling to me. They claim that Jon won’t have time for disputing over a title because he’ll be busy fighting against the Others and when duty calls he’ll choose to fight the Great War instead of ruling and that’s his fate. I ask: who the hell is more prepared to fight a war than a king? Who’s better at managing everything than the ultimate authority? That’s why it sounds so silly to me. Specially when tempered with “he loves his siblings, that conflict was solved, that’s why he’ll give up on Robb’s will”. Yeah, sure, George set that all up just for Jon to say “nope, I’m good”. That’s not how a complex story like ASOIAF works. Controversial but I have the feeling that they only say that as an excuse to shove Jon aside so S4ns4 can be queen even though she lacks half of the experience Jon has as a ruler. When they know they’re stretching it too far, they’ll say “why can’t all the Starks rule together like a sweet loving family???” so S4ns4 won’t be excluded and they can look reasonable and less awful in the eyes of the fandom for shoving Jon aside for S4ns4’s sake, like they used to do to Bran the Eternal Tree and Arya the Eternal Sailor. I personally can’t wait for Arya to crown him.
Exactly!! This is pretty much it.
And also, I would like to point out that these bnfs are also big Stannis fans! That's what so hypocritical and ridiculous about this. Jon's support for Stannis is entirely predicated on the acknowledgement that Stannis has the power of a king and therefore the ability to unite people, gather an army and make important decisions for the good of the realm. And Stannis knows about the threat from beyond the Wall and is still engaged in battle and politicking south of the Wall.
If that is okay for Stannis to be king, why does the same not apply to Jon with the only thing standing in his way being his bastardy?  Unless they think that being a bastard disqualifies him in some way that it does not for Stannis.
Also, the implication that the only reason Sansa would oppose a King Jon is because of sexism is 🤣🤣🤣. That’s right, book Sansa who has never, not once, pondered on the inherent sexism of Westerosi patriarchal ideals will be opposed to king Jon on the basis of it being sexist and not because Jon is a bastard. Classism and discrimination against bastards is totally okay - Jon should be precluded from power because of his bastardy. But sexism preventing a younger and less experienced Sansa from getting it over Jon? Oh no, how unfair 😱.
Jon is the oldest, most experienced of Ned’s children (the only one who can rule without a regent) but if he gets rulership in the North over Sansa, who does not know the first thing about what is happening all over the North - it must be the sexism that Sansa is outraged about, nothing else right? 🤣 The same Sansa who in the most recent book thought that because Lothor Brune’s birth was very low he would be a good fit for a bastard girl like Mya Stone....
And then there's the fact that they think these characters don't evolve and change at all over 5 books! The mind truly boggles. So 9 year old Arya at the beginning of AGoT going all 'eww boys!' and telling her father that she will never marry and have children apparently means that's permanent! And this is in a book series that liberally uses a rule of three, meaning, characters end up making different choices the third time.
Jon Snow himself is a perfect example of this:
Forgive me, Father. Robb, Arya, Bran. Forgive me, I cannot help you. He has the truth of it. This is my place. ” Jon Snow, AGoT
You were wrong to leave her, a different voice insisted. He wondered if his father had been torn the same way, when he’d left Jon’s mother to return to Lady Catelyn. He was pledged to Lady Stark, and I am pledged to the Night’s Watch - Jon Snow, ASoS
I want my bride back … I want my bride back … “I think we had best change the plan,” Jon Snow said. If this is oathbreaking, the crime is mine and mine alone - Jon Snow, ADwD
And there is also a deliberate ignorance of the chapter where Jon does make his decision to refuse Stannis. I have already written plenty on this - the reason Jon refuses Stannis’ offer to be legitimized as Lord of Winterfell is because the King wanted him to convert to the Lord of Light and burn down the Winterfell Godswood. Ghost’s timely appearance with his white fur and red eyes reminds Jon of the Weirwoods, that Ghost himself is a gift from the Old Gods and of his sworn oaths in front of the Godswood.
When Jon later brokers the marriage between Sigorn and Alys, their wedding is a mix of two cultures and religions - that of the Lord of Light and the Old Gods. Because unlike Jon Snow, Sigorn the magnar of the Thenns has no issue converting to the Lord of Light, as far as we know.
There is a clear difference between Stannis offering Jon Snow Winterfell and Robb Stark doing it. The emotional weight behind Robb doing it is simply immense for GRRM to not tackle that in Jon Snow’s POV
That morning he called it first. “I’m Lord of Winterfell!” he cried, as he had a hundred times before. Only this time, this time, Robb had answered, “You can’t be Lord of Winterfell, you’re bastard-born. My lady mother says you can’t ever be the Lord of Winterfell.” - Jon, ASoS
“Mother.” There was a sharpness in Robb’s tone. “You forget. My father had four sons.”
“Jon’s more a Stark than some lordlings from the Vale who have never so much as set eyes on Winterfell.”
Should I die without issue, I want him to succeed me as King in the North.” - Catelyn, ASoS
There’s every chance that we get a rule of three scenario here as well. I can foresee for instance :
1. Jon refusing Stannis offer
2. Jon’s emotional upheaval with Robb’s decree and wanting to accept it for protecting the realm with the power of a king,  but conflicted because there are some Northern houses supporting Rickon Stark and his baby brother is the rightful heir
3. Arya Stark turns up with Robb’s crown, names him king and we get Jon Stark, Lord of Winterfell and KITN.
And yes, for all asoiaf fans proclaim that the books are complex tomes unlike traditional high fantasy and subvert tropes and all that, it’s ridiculous that they box these characters into specific roles like the show did.
The TV show did it simply because it’s an adaptation which combined plots and characters for budget reasons and because D&D are simply bad writers. So, if Jon Snow was doing everything his book version was on the show, what would they do with Sophie Turner considering they binned the Vale plot for not having more book material? They can’t ask Turner to sit out seasons. So they take away from book Jon’s plot and skillsets, and hand it over to show Sansa. Same with Arya and Bran. They put these characters into boxes: Arya: Assassin, Bran:3ER, Jon: Military man: Sansa: politician.
However, that’s not how it is in the books at all. If one has read these 5 books, imagine how ridiculous it would be for book Jon Snow to take any kind of advice from the 13 year old book Sansa we last see in the Vale!!
It was already ridiculous on the show because of how badly they shoved Sansa into Jon’s plot. It was not enough that show Sansa was the ‘politician’, she also is suddenly a military expert and demands that Jon ask her advise on offensive battle techniques, instructs northern armorers on the best way to make armor and lectures Yohn Royce on the strategic value of castles as a first line of defense!!
It’s doubly nonsensical in the books. Just like most medieval and feudal European monarchs (from whom GRRM has borrowed) had an education that was as well rounded as possible, so too are the noble rulers and leaders of Westeros and Essos. Jon, Arya, Bran, Dany and Tyrion all have political arcs with military aspects. Dany, Tyrion and Jon have participated in military defensive and offensive battles. They have ruled and administered over city states and institutions. They have made trade deals and negotiated political alliances. They have used both hard power and soft power in their dealings with allies and enemies. Arya’s arc has intersected with politics - both southern and northern - since she left for KL. Bran had an entire arc as defacto Lord/Prince of Winterfell in Robb’s absence.
Jon, Dany and Tyrion are competent leaders in their own right in all aspects and if Bran, Rickon or Arya do need an adviser or a regent because of their age then that regent will be an older, experienced person - ex. Davos. Not the least qualified 13 year old!!
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So in the first story in the Stepney book, the dynamic between Percy and Douglas is really interesting. (Especially when I edit it almost beyond recognition, lol.)
Coz they're talking about, well, you know, how there's an actual genocide of steam engines going down on the mainline. And in such a conversation you'd think Douglas would be the more grounded and worldly, yeah? Coz he's fresh from that frying pan, himself. Or maybe you'd recall that, after all, it's definitely Donald who is the brain of our Caledonians, and predict that actually Perce and Douggie are on a level.
But in fact, in this of all conversations, it's Percy who strikes me, again and again, as the more aware and open-eyed of the two. And it's all the more remarkable because Percy himself is really playing up this "oh don't ask me 🙃 I am but a simple saddletank, I do not understand the ways of the cruel and confusing outside world 🙃 I like to sing daft songs and think as little as possible 🙃" shtick to the hilt. But... what he says and how he says it doesn't bear this out at all? He got the gist of what the Fat Controller told them at the staff meeting perfectly well, thanks. The "nuance" and correction in the author's note is literally corporate propaganda and Percy is right to have tuned that line out. And he is not insensitive at all to their mainland counterparts, he feels deeply for them, but he also shows a lot of sense about how he conducts himself. Douglas has been happy to ignore any updates on the mainland situation till now—I'm not criticizing him, just pointing out that in comparison Percy has in fact paid attention and kept himself well-informed even though he goes on living his best life on Sodor. Perce is doing fine. He's excited about their visitor, as he gets excited by most grand events, but it's actually Douglas who starts immediately romanticizing and lionizing this new idol in a way that I find kind of naive...
D: 'He's sooo brave to travel among all those hordes of murderous diesels just to see us! 😍'
P: '... He has his Controller with him??'
D: 'SHORT 🤩 KING 🤩'
Douglas can't comprehend the idea of getting to Sodor with official permission, lol. Also, lookit him—he's already thirsty for Oliver before he ever meets him! My man is actually out here projecting his boyfriend fantasies onto a celebrity. How this lucky, lucky bastard had said fantasy just materialize in front of him in the moonlight at Barrow yards is beyond me. Douglas the Bullshitted His Way Onto the Island of Sodor Engine was truly built under a lucky star.
Mind you, I think Percy is right there being a short king. Like, Douggie. My babe. The way you immediately take Percy's remarks about 'it's really sad what's happening to our poor brethren on the mainland 😓' to 'yeahhh, fuckin' diesels, man. they're all devils' at the speed of light? Now I am criticizing you. Like I understand where you got this attitude but I am disappointed at your machine racism.
But Percy? Percy 💖. I will eternally love him for at once calling his friend out. 'douggie, what the fuck? you know that's not true. can it.' Like he's not super assertive about it and he doesn't press the point. But he does instantly drop the whole "i am so clueless and WHIMSICALLLL hehe" persona he'd been playing literally one second before to just speak directly and intelligibly and to the point—and he nails it. Douglas can't separate his fears about scrap from his feelings about diesels but Percy's is basically all 'it's literally so easy to not be a dick... so don't.'
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pttucker · 6 months
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The only one remaining on the battlefield where everything had perished was Yoo Joonghyuk. The Conclusion he finally reached by using the deaths of everyone as its fertiliser. What he wished for at the end of this lengthy fight was just this one thing. 'To see the end of this damn regression'. For that sole purpose, he persisted and got himself here. Unfortunately, a wall prevented him from 'going beyond'. ⸢There are three ways to survive in a ruined world. Now, I have forgotten a few, but one thing is certain. The fact that you who are reading these words will survive for sure.⸥ Incomprehensible texts were written on that wall. That was where Yoo Joonghyuk met the 'Dokkaebi King'. [Oh hear ye, the poor, tragic puppet. You have come far too quickly. I'm sorry, but past here 'doesn't exist' yet.]
Okay, wow, so we got a lot of information just casually dumped on us.
First off, VINDICATION!!!!! I was right! Joonghyuk's sponsor IS Oldest Dream!!! I knew it!
...Except Joonghyuk (Secretive Plotter) says that he can't find its physical body anywhere, just traces of it. Which makes me think that maybe Oldest Dream is the author of TWSA. After all, traces of the author exist all over every worldline (every storyline) but they don't actually exist physically within the story.
Except then it also slides into talking about how he found a very strange worldline with "an existence he had never encountered before" and that also makes me think that the reason he couldn't find Oldest Dream's body anywhere is because Dokja is his physical body and Dokja was busy "being born" or whatever's going on. I mean, if both Sooyoung and Joonghyuk can have Avatar-like doubles, why can't Dokja?
Of course, I've thought that Dokja was Oldest Dream for a while now so maybe I'm just trying to hold onto my old theory lmao. Except this is once again making me want to revisit my theory that Dokja is the author when I just got done dropping that theory in favor of Sooyoung being the author...
Hmmm. I don't know.
And the Fourth Wall!
Secretive Plotter literally ran right into it and of course it makes sense that he 1) can't break past it and 2) that there's nothing on this side of the wall for him because the Fourth Wall is obviously the divide between TWSA and the "real world."
TWSA ends with Dokja not yet knowing the epilogue so naturally Secretive Plotter, the original TWSA Joonghyuk, has no more story to go to when it's all said and done because it hasn't been written yet...or it hasn't been read yet. By Dokja? Hmmm.
On the flip side, it's interesting that it specifically mentions "0th turn all the way up to 1863rd," especially when we had tiny Joonghyuk 999 ask Dokja why he thought his Joonghyuk was on the 3rd turn. In fact, the chapter specifically says "0th turn" more than once like it's really pointing it out. It's an important piece of information.
...I'm just not certain why yet.
Does Secretive Plotter count it differently because he didn't actually live those prior regressions (due to TWSA starting on the 3rd turn) so the "3rd" is actually "0th" when counting his actual life or did he live them and it's actually our Joonghyuk who's story only starts on the third regression?
If Secretive Plotter did live them, then technically he's lived beyond what's written in TWSA so maybe he can go past the wall one day? Or some other mystery is afoot. Why would the original TWSA Joonghyuk start from his normal 0th turn life while Dokja's Joonghyuk starts from the 3rd? Like Dokja said, why did Dokja have to go into the third turn when he's changing the story anyway and could have gone into any turn, including the first one??? I really can't imagine that it was random.
Not to mention Secretive Plotter says:
He now could drift along the countless world-lines he had lived through, and eventually, he was no longer 'Yoo Joonghyuk'.
He went drifting through his own past worldlines. And then he saw a strange worldline that was "shining brightly" and had a regression turn that he didn't remember. And he's said in the past that the 1863rd and the minis were all supposed to be a part of him.
Ughhhh it's another moment where I'm just about to put the pieces together...and then I don't. 😂
My best guess is either that Dokja somehow entered into TWSA and he literally created an entirely new worldline that started on the third turn because that's the TWSA he'd read or along a similar path, Oldest Dream decided to put himself into a worldline/created a new worldline...and is either Dokja (or a Dokja) or the author or both.
Also! The Dokkaebi King is not only there at the end but seems to understand what is going on??? So they must be outside the Star Stream since they didn't die when Joonghyuk destroyed it. But they still have to be inside the story, right? Because they're literally in the story of TWSA (...and ORV...)
They must have encountered the Fourth Wall in the past, or perhaps watched Incarnations/Constellations encounter it in the past, and so they at least sort of know what's going on? If not outright understand that they're literally in a novel? (Literally within a novel within a novel...)
The Dokkaebi are also aware of the other worldlines and seem to have seen Dokja in the 1863rd so maybe if my theory of everything repeating is correct, they've seen the story begin again??? At least the upper level Dokkaebi?
idk, I still don't really know much about the Dokkaebi (or the Wenny people for that matter) and can't really see what exactly their part of this whole thing is yet.
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aegor-bamfsteel · 2 years
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Some fans have called Jeyne Poole calling Arya horseface or mean to her slightly unbelievable. Considering Jeyne was a stewards daughter and Arya a high-born lady. I think it's Jeyne insecurity and jealousy for what Arya have made her do that. That doesn't mean Jeyne was right to bully Arya. Though I found it slightly weird that Arya never reacted to her or confront her. Regarding class difference it seems like Arya isn't bother about the class status between her and Jeyne.
And that’s another of my pet peeves about fantasies. The bad authors adopt the class structures of the Middle Ages; where you had the royalty and then you had the nobility and you had the merchant class and then you have the peasants and so forth. But they don’t’ seem to realize what it actually meant. They have scenes where the spunky peasant girl tells off the pretty prince. The pretty prince would have raped the spunky peasant girl. He would have put her in the stocks and then had garbage thrown at her. You know.
I mean, the class structures in places like this had teeth. They had consequences. And people were brought up from their childhood to know their place and to know that duties of their class and the privileges of their class. It was always a source of friction when someone got outside of that thing. And I tried to reflect that. —GRRM 2011 interview
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Why GRRM goes instantly to rape as the response to a peasant woman’s insubordination is beyond me, but I’m going to digress. If the class structure is supposed to be so strict that even “sassy” words are deemed worthy of violent punishment, then how does GRRM explain this passage?:
When Dunk trotted up to them on Thunder, the boy looked surprised. "She said she wanted to give you a new horse, ser."
"Even highborn ladies don't get all they want," Dunk said, as they rode out across the drawbridge. "It wasn't a horse I wanted." The moat was so high it was threatening to overflow its banks. "I took something else to remember her by instead. A lock of that red hair." He reached under his cloak, brought out the braid, and smiled. —The Sworn Sword
Okay, so a peasant girl sassing a pretty prince gets thrown in the stocks, but a hedge knight who cut off a highborn woman’s hair without her consent (we don’t get her reaction in the novella, but her face in the graphic novel is terrified), gets to walk off scot-free with some presents? And he rejects a horse after losing 2/3 of those he inherited from Ser Arlan and the horse being necessary for a knight? And people wonder why I don’t find Dunk a credible member of the smallfolk. Anyway, compared to some instances in the story, Jeyne smirking and neighing when Arya comes near her isn’t that unrealistic and could be chalked up to schoolyard taunting.
While Jeyne is a steward’s daughter, she is also a minor noblewoman, probably on par with Beth Cassel. Maybe calling her horseface and neighing would’ve been insubordination in King’s Landing (although Sansa would’ve likely put in a good word for Jeyne if the teasing ever reached higher authorities) but this is Winterfell and the children can interact with minor nobles and even smallfolk (Mikken, Harwin, Gage, Hullen, Septon Chayle, of course Old Nan) with some easy familiarity. Arya is used to interacting with Winterfell’s smallfolk men and women to the point she gets another nickname: “Arya had loved nothing better than to sit at her father's table and listen to them talk. She had loved listening to the men on the benches too; to freeriders tough as leather, courtly knights and bold young squires, grizzled old men-at-arms. She used to throw snowballs at them and help them steal pies from the kitchen. Their wives gave her scones and she invented names for their babies and played monsters-and-maidens and hide-the-treasure and come-into-my-castle with their children. Fat Tom used to call her "Arya Underfoot," because he said that was where she always was.” —Arya II AGOT. Even though Jeyne doesn’t treat her well, it makes sense she’d see her as part of Winterfell life and not look down on her for being of lower class (however, her lack of knowledge/care about the class structure leads to the confrontation at Darry in which she and Sansa lose their wolves) It’s also part of Kid Code not to go to the adults for something like name calling, though for all we know she did hit her/taunt her back, and this led her to think it’d be OK to react as she did with Joffrey. I think Jeyne was also insecure about her class status, though she also called Arya these names because she was insecure about her looks, as she says “I was never beautiful like Sansa, but they all told me I was pretty” and she also wanted male approval. Of course it wasn’t right for her to tease Arya. The true purpose of the teasing was for GRRM to make Arya feel like an outcast, thus connected to Jon; however, in AGOT Arya makes male friends/male mentors easily whereas she has colder relationships with women/girls, so it’s GRRM trying to have his cake (Arya as outcast by women) and eat it too (Arya as beloved kid sister/daughter by the good Winterfell men). Anyway, by the time of ADWD what Jeyne said pre-GOT is so insignificant (teasing vs becoming an abused child bride or trained assassin) in the grand scheme of things that I don’t think it’s going to be relevant going forward.
tl;dr Maybe Jeyne’s teasing is unrealistic, but compared to other scenes, it is more believable and has less of an impact. You could partially explain it by a friendship with Sansa, the looser class structure at Winterfell, Arya’s openness toward the Winterfell men and women, and kids being unwilling to take bullying to an adult. Jeyne possibly teased Arya due to her insecurities as a minor noble girl as well as her looks/crushes. GRRM used the teasing as a character point for Arya as an outcast that he undermines by having many positive male characters drawn to her. However, since the story and characters have grown so much since AGOT, I don’t think “Horseface” will be very significant.
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emblazons · 1 year
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That's a nice point about Matt Duffers, lol. But I sometimes feel like the show could not manage to deliver the message on the show. Most of the audience thinks Will was truly being childish and in the wrong for playing DnD in S3... and they still think that way after years. And of course, the audience is 'dumb' sometimes and they do not get the messages of the show and its narrative, but... it is also the case that the show could have done... better, so to say.
Honestly I think you make a fair point, though I personally don't agree with the idea that they "could have done it better" just because a lot of people don't understand what they were doing? Sure, I agree that there were maybe simpler or more straightfoward methods to get to where we are now, and I don't necessarily agree with all the Duffer's decisions, but...I certainly don't think they've done anything poorly…on top of the fact that the show isn’t even done.
I have talked about it here several times before, but: Stranger Things was and always has been a show for a specific audience (which The Duffers have repeatedly said, even walking into S5) rather than the behemoth household name moneymaker a lot of people see it as today, and a lot of the muddled interpretations of the show come from that expansion beyond its original bounds more than anything else. I think that, especially with the introduction of S4 when they “started showing their hand,” their direction for the story was clear to the audience it was meant to be—and while it is perhaps its a bit "pretentious" in a way to say so, the fact that ST is lost on people who it wasn’t designed for doesn't mean the Duffers did a weak job—it just means they aren’t the audience the show was written for.
With smaller shows (and even movies) that have more niche audiences and smaller viewerships (aka: people who know what to look for in the show), you don't see the same kind/level of criticism or audience dissonance ST gets—just like the audience for Clueless (1995) can appreciate things about it that people outside of its viewership might think was overwhelmingly foolish, same as the viewership for Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey is going to catch and appreciate things about it that are going to fly right over the heads of a fair number of people who watch it...despite both of those films being phenomenal examples of work for their specific audiences/genres.
There are people who don't like Jane Austen who know she's a master at what she did even if they don't understand it, and people who hate Stephen King books still know he's good at what he does (unless they're being critical for its own sake). To me, its much the same with The Duffers & Stranger Things—it makes sense to almost all of the nerdy, deeply steeped in movies and TV humans who watch the show, and most of us have realized they are on their way to making a clear point about how embracing your nerdiness is positive...even if most of the general audience hasn't gathered that yet.
Also, given the show isn't even finished yet, its jumping the gun a bit to say "you haven't delivered" on something that isn't yet complete? You can’t get 4/5 of the way through a book, see the lead up for the story, and then shut it before the dénouement…only to then say the author doesn’t know what they’re doing lmao.
Like. If The Duffers fuck this up I will be right there demanding justice for Will Byers, same as you. But I’m not gonna call Matt Duffer a liar or incompetent writer before his proverbial essay’s even finished just because someone who wasn’t the intended audience for ST doesn’t understand or see the deeper themes of the show ☠️ if it’s pretentious to say that then…I guess they have to mark me down LMAO.
Anyway. I hope that makes sense? And that you know I am not coming for you, but more the idea that the duffers are fucking up somehow because some people don’t understand them. But still, thanks for the ask!
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suzannahnatters · 1 year
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My bestie sent me this quote yesterday and asked if it was legit, and whether I thought it would be taking the quote out of context to apply it to THE RINGS OF POWER. It's a great question - what would Tolkien have thought of TROP?
I've been asking myself this question, with this quote in mind, ever since TROP was announced. My best guess? It's complicated.
First, the quote is absolutely legit - it's from a 1951 letter to the publisher Milton Waldman. Second, something like TROP - a fan work that fleshes out and even remixes underdeveloped parts of Tolkien's world - is arguably what he had in mind.
Don't forget that Tolkien was a medievalist, and one of the most noteworthy aspects of medieval literature was the retelling/remixing of beloved stories. Individual creators retold and embroidered legends in myriad forms. The legend of King Arthur collected the Green Man, the Graal, and other additions as it went. Along the way, things were altered beyond recognition. Heroic characters like Gawain were even downgraded to villains to make room for new characters like Lancelot.
The story took on a life of its own; it ceased to exist in a definitive form, and became the property of everyone. And for this reason it long outlived its first creators and readers.
With his background in medievalism, I think Tolkien had to have had something like this in mind when he wrote those words. But that's in theory. In practice, the man was, bless him, pretty cranky. He disliked allegory. He disliked Narnia. He disliked French. He objected to Joy Davidman. (Personally, I like all four of these things and don't see why I should give them up, even for my favourite author in the world.)
From the first moment I read the Letters I thought that particular quote was very funny because it was so obvious he would have detested anyone else's take on Middle Earth. There are definitely things I object to in TROP and I think they would have given Tolkien the irrits as well. The mithril nonsense. The narrative structure, paltry compared to his. The military tactical fails. (There are also things I think he might have liked: the focus on Galadriel, the choice to expand upon her relationship with Sauron, Adar's advocacy of the Orcs, the Elendil/Miriel relationship.)
But ultimately? Tolkien being Tolkien, and having said what he said about other minds and hands, my best guess is that he would have been tremendously pleased to know that his work has taken on a life of its own...and even better pleased that he's not around to see it.
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