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#esotericephemera
04tenno · 10 months
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sorry to bother but I saw ya talk about kirin lore and Mine etc? Specifically about kirin and the full moon? Do you have any stuff I could look at about kirin myth that I could look at? (its cool if its a Japanese source I'll force myself to learn to read it) Or just any thoughts on kirin and Mine in general I've been going ham on stupid kirin-Mine AU lately and its relevant fhdkfd
I'm glad you asked! Unfortunately I'm not positive I saved any of my sources... anywhere, but the good news is I do remember most of my findings in detail and have been itching to post about them. So! I'm taking this opportunity to analyze Mine's tattoo top-to-bottom.
And I'm also approaching this as a sort of redemption arc, because a lot of interpretations of Mine's tattoo out there are based on what I wrote on the wiki. It's not that they're incorrect per se, but there is so much more to it than what the wiki currently goes into, and I'd like to share that with you all today.
I'll start off with some official statements, and because it comes up later, establish the original version of the tattoo Horitomo designed is actually this version with green fur (pictured below):
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Like the word kirin-ji, this is a design that evokes the image of a genius. To be honest, the majority of depictions give kirins the face of a dragon, but with a composition like this where it's soaring upwards, you risk ending up with a tattoo that looks too much like Kiryu's. So I looked into some older material, and while it's not too common, I went with a type of kirin that more closely resembles a deer. — Horitomo
It wants to rise above, but chooses to put itself second and use its talent and intellect to support the "king"—the kirin suits Mine, doesn't it? So, with that general concept in mind, we went through several designs done in pencil, went back and forth on various aspects, until we settled on the direction we wanted to take. And after that, the detailed version of the design was produced. — Masayoshi Yokoyama
With Yokoyama's comment, it's clear what the core meaning of his tattoo was meant to be from the beginning. Because a Like a Dragon tattoo represents more than just a summation of who the character is as the audience knows them or their role in the narrative, but who they were before joining the yakuza, why they joined the yakuza, what the motivation was behind their choice of subject, how elements of the tattoo reflect on characters who share the same elements (and vice versa), and how the meaning the tattoo evolves over time in relation to the character's fate.
So my main... misgiving, let's say... with popular interpretations of Mine's tattoo is that they focus solely on Daigo without examining how it relates to anything else. Again, partly my fault, I'll cop to that, but this is an issue with a lot of analysis of Mine as a character... and it's a little frustrating, isn't it? It is for me. But enough complaining, it's showtime:
Some notes design-wise: the decision to portray Mine's kirin as deer-like rather than dragon-like specifically to distance him from Kiryu says a lot about their characters to me. Because Mine is, in a lot of ways, "the complete opposite, or antithesis, of Kiryu." (Yokoyama) But the kirin is ultimately in the "dragon" family of mythological creatures; as such, Mine, no matter how much he tries to set himself apart from Kiryu, will always parallel Kiryu. This is exactly what I was talking about with regard to how tattoos come to change in meaning over time; it's not insanely prophetic, it's something that makes complete sense in-universe, makes sense for Mine to get at the time he got it, but it also ends up representing his relationship with Kiryu so well. The fact the kirin is in the "dragon" family of mythological creatures, in combination with the original green coloring, is also notable. Because the dragon depicted in Daigo's tattoo is the same shade of green.
There are multiple "species" of kirin, denoted by the color of their fur, which corresponds to one of the five phases (五行, gogyō), originating from the concept of wuxing in Chinese philosophy. The word "kirin," strictly speaking, refers to kirin with yellow fur and corresponds to Earth, which is associated with stability, hard work, ambition, and stubbornness. Kirin with green fur are known as shoko (聳孤, shōko) and correspond to Wood, which is associated with luxuriant growth, vitality, strength, and co-operation. Speaking of the five phases, that also ties into the concept of the Four Gods, a motif explored with the protagonists of Yakuza 4: Kiryu is the Azure Dragon, Akiyama is the Vermillion Bird, Saejima is the Black Turtle, and Tanimura is the White Tiger, representing Wood, Fire, Water, and Metal respectively. The "Fifth God," representing Earth, is widely considered to be a kirin. This doesn't really relate to anything though, just food for thought for the Protagonist Mine enjoyers (me <3)
A great deal of the meaning behind Mine's tattoo is etymological in nature. The word "qilin" itself represents a duality: "qi" refers to a female kirin, "lin" refers to a male kirin, and "qilin" refers to the species as whole. The kirin is said to embody yin and yang. And I think this aspect works perfectly with who Mine is as a character often torn between two extremes. He, like the kirin, has the capacity for both benevolence and ferocity, and like the kirin, only becomes violent in retaliation to violence or out of a sense of protectiveness. Also, in a very literal sense, Mine has both Yin cards and Yang cards in Ryu Ga Gotoku Online, which very few characters do due to their contradictory nature. As Horitomo mentions, the design has basis in the word "kirin-ji" (麒麟児, child prodigy, lit. "kirin child"). A lot of people already know this (anyone who's read this post certainly does, at any rate), but fewer are familiar with the origin of the term. In Ancient China, there was a belief that the appearance of a kirin heralds the birth (and death) of a gifted son with a promising future, beliefs held around Confucius being a famous example. Of course, this relates to Daigo in terms of the association with leaders, but it also relates to Mine himself, who views his younger self as a sort of diamond-in-the-rough, a "gem shining brilliantly by the wayside." This reinforces that the tattoo is not just a meta representation of him, but directly relates to how he views himself. Additionally, the kanji that comprise "shoko" read as "soar" (聳, shō; as in, to rise above something) and "orphan" (孤, ko) respectively.
On that note, kirin are capable of flight, which can obviously be connected to his ambition ("rising above" his origins), his theme, and his method of suicide. They hover off of the ground so as to not trample blades of grass, and are often depicted as walking on clouds (which are, of course, depicted in Mine's tattoo). Some kirin even have wings!
Circling back to the note about violence to talk about the kirin's ability in battle: kirin are ferocious combatants and known to have a very strong hind kick; Mine mainly uses his legs to fight. I believe his "red heat state," where he's at his most aggressive, also represents the fire surrounding his kirin. Kirin may use flames to attack. Kirin are also thought to be the only creatures who can defeat a dragon, and I would argue Mine is the only final boss who even manages to come close to defeating Kiryu. I actually would even argue he did win, since he had more stamina left.
Just reiterating for the sake of being thorough, but as mentioned in the ask, kirin are thought to be at their most volatile and at their most powerful during a full moon. You only see it in one shot, but the finale of Yakuza 3 does in fact take place under a full moon. Mine is, of course, shown to be both of those things in the finale.
There's also some sort of association between kirin and thunder/lightning, at least in popular media. Mine and his tattoo are depicted surrounded by lightning in one of his cards, and the "Hakuho Clan Pin" item that came out at the same time has an ability called Roaring Thunder. I'm not sure why this is the case. Perhaps it's to do with the kirin's association with the sky, since thunder and lightning are celestial phenomena.
With that, I believe I've covered everything I wanted to touch on. Thank you for reading and for the opportunity, and I hope I've "redeemed myself" adequately!
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passports-pls · 7 months
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Part two of a commission for @esotericephemera ! no surprises it’s minedai angst 🙏
(COMMISSION INFO)
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todayisafridaynight · 8 months
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THESE LOVELIES for @esotericephemera: tyvm for commissionin me !!
Commission Info (September 4th, 2023)
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esotericephemera · 7 months
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COMMISSIONS | CLOSED
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Commissions are currently CLOSED. Pinned post on my esotericephemera will be edited to reflect availability. All prices are USD. Variance in prices depends on detail; if you're looking for options outside of colored fulls/half or have a different sort of style of mine you're looking for, let me know and bring an example! I can work something out.
No NSFW Mechs/Machinery/Detailed Armor Separate Fee Not for commercial use Changes during the sketch WIP process are allowed; after is limited Payment via donation on Ko-Fi I'm available to be contacted by @esotericephemera on Tumblr, or esotericephemera on Discord! This is my commission account; I don't take any DMs for anything outside of that. I will generally reply to inquiries within a day, but may take a little bit depending on my IRL schedule. Thank ya!
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echoes-sounds · 2 months
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Dirthamen 💚
This is an OC I am using as Dirthamen for my fic, (which is still unfinished oops), the design belongs to myself and @esotericephemera
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04tenno · 1 year
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HI HELLO that clip is really something! First off I really appreciate all the translation stuff you're doing and the character analysis posts they give me life AH. I don't want to be that guy tm but do you mind breaking down the part you put down as "Well [we're thinking] that he lived...that's no joke" ? To me, it sounds like there's a lot of incomplete thoughts/sentences, but at the same time I'm a little hard of hearing so might not be getting all of it.
This isn't trying to call you on anything, I'm interested in improving my own Japanese as well and I really would love seeing the breakdown !
First of all, thank you so much for writing in! While I'm pleased with the reception, it's quite rare to get comments on the translations themselves (perhaps understandably so, the work of a translator should be and often is "invisible"), so I'm thrilled to have your support! I'm also always happy to see others enjoy my Unmitigated Braindumping to Snap recently.
And you're more than welcome to be That Guy™ because I was hoping for a chance to talk about this! As I mention in the disclaimer at the start, it's really difficult to make out what's being said in some parts. The commentary and gameplay is almost at equal volume and there's crosstalk both with the commentators and with the in-game dialogue.
That's sort of why I had to have the clip professionally transcribed (although my initial point of interest wasn't what was in the clip I shared; I actually glossed over Yokoyama's comment entirely at first and only noticed it in the transcript). Even then I had to fill in some of the blanks myself, which I only managed because I have some much-needed context on the series and commentators.
There's also the matter of stylization. In this case, I was going for natural human speech rather than a literal translation, but I also had the constraint of having to make everything fit to one line (or about thirty characters). I'll go into those aspects as they come up.
Anyway, without further ado, let's break it down!
The clip in question for context. To stay on-topic, I'm only covering what Yokoyama said from 00:18 to 00:36. I'm starting a bit earlier than the point you mentioned, but the context is important to establish in terms of how I chose to translate what was said.
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[00:18–00:25] Yokoyama: [知]ってんだよ・・・ 勝ってんだけどさ・・・ こんなに簡単にさ・・・ まぁ、ちょっと。
Interestingly enough, the transcriptionist and I had significantly different ideas on what was being said here because he's sort of slurring his words at the start of those first two lines. As a cohesive whole, though, I believe my interpretation here is accurate.
「知ってんだよ・・・」 -> Literal: "I know..." (emphatic, explanatory) -> Final: "I know..." Easy enough to pin down and translate, as he's already repeated this phrase multiple times at this point.
「勝ってんだけどさ・・・」 -> Literal: "[Someone/Something] won, you see..." (emphatic, explanatory, with the slight nuance of introducing an idea) -> Final: "He won me over..." The trickiest line, because it's very difficult to make out the 「か」 sound at the start. This is where I had to rely on context, because while most verbs starting with a sound in the 「あ」 column simply didn't make sense with the surrounding lines, that in and of itself doesn't narrow it down to one possibility. So I had to consider what Yokoyama might be wanting to express here that could be considered a newly-introduced idea within the context of the conversation, and I recalled that at the time the tweet at the end of the video was posted, Yokoyama had "denied allegations" that he liked Mine. His views in the past would come as a surprise to anyone talking to him now, particularly when he always speaks highly of Mine, so the nuance works. Then the association formed of him being "won over" by Mine, so that's what I ended up going with. He technically doesn't say who or what "won," or in what sense, but I think it's fairly clear.
「こんなに簡単にさ・・・」 -> Literal: "This easily..." (emphatic, explanatory) -> Final: "Just like that..." Pretty straightforward. It connects directly with the previous line, so the verb had to be something that can be (and was) done easily. Although he "denied allegations" at the time, a decade ago now, he's warmed up to Mine (and Hijikata) considerably. So as mentioned before, these three lines form a cohesive whole, which you get the sense of from their similar structure.
「まぁ、ちょっと・・・」 -> Literal: "Well, [sort of/a little/a little while]..." -> Final: "Oh, well..." I'll explain this one further below, because it's not an independent phrase, but the start of the next thing he says. It should be noted that the fact he takes so long to finish this thought shows that he's taking his time to consider his words carefully. But for now, all I felt I needed to do here was make the "bridge" clear by ending this line and starting the next one with the same word.
I did say I'd only cover what Yokoyama said, but as an aside, Santo(?)'s line drives me insane. I hate, hate, hate leaving anything as [unintelligible], but even the transcript was of next to no help here.
[00:29–00:32] Yokoyama: ちょっと生きてましたでさ、やっぱ獅童さん呼ぶのも辛いじゃん。
Now we're getting to the meat of it. And by a stroke of pure luck, there are no ambiguities here at all on what's being said, so I won't keep you waiting!
「ちょっと生きてましたでさ、」 -> Literal: "And [he's] been alive for a bit," (emphatic, explanatory) -> Final: "Well, [we're thinking] he lived," The nuance of 「ちょっと」 here is arguably the trickiest part. Of course, in my translation, I opted to emphasize the bridge between the two thoughts instead of fully interrogating the "meaning" of 「ちょっと」, but it is really worth taking a closer look at. Because in one sense it's sort of a filler word, a buffer. But in another sense, weighing the potential meanings of 「ちょっと」 against each other here is crucial in understanding who he's talking about and what he means. In this context, it can only be describing either time or certainty, and the emphatic, explanatory nature of 「で」 and 「さ」 cancels out the idea of it being a matter of certainty. That's why I've been hammering that in so much. So if instead it's about time, saying this about Nakamura, saying "he's still alive and therefore can participate in RGG," would be incredibly weird, disrespectful, and out-of-character for Yokoyama. So it can only be about Mine. It can only about how long it's been since they came to the conclusion he's alive, and, in a sense, how much thought they've put into it. This is sort of where the issue with character count came up; I wanted to say "we've been thinking" to convey these ideas, but I just didn't have the space. But that's an addition by me based on an inference, because I didn't want anyone to, as I mentioned in my original tags, expect too much. The most important takeaway is that Yokoyama says in no uncertain terms that Mine is alive. And I didn't include this because it goes by incredibly fast and I wanted to keep the spotlight on what Yokoyama was saying, but Santo(?) agrees. It's not Yokoyama's personal opinion (which he typically qualifies extensively even if it's for something that doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things, like Kiryu being a virgin in his view). It's a fact that's known to RGG Studio. Mine is alive. It's just a matter of whether we'll see him again and when.
「やっぱ獅童さん呼ぶのも辛いじゃん。」 -> Literal: "Still, inviting Shido-san back would also be tricky, right?" (assertive, inviting agreement) -> Final: "But getting Shido-san back, that's no joke." Very straightforward. He does slur his pronunciation of 「辛い」 as 「つれぇ」, but that's undoubtedly what he's saying. (Side note, a number of his characters also talk like that; some at RGG Studio say the "Yokoyama-ism" comes through at times.) What I'd like to point out here is the usage of 「も」, or "also." The implicit meaning is that getting Nakamura back is tough, but it's tough in addition to something else. Because of what he says next, I believe that "something else" is figuring out how to write Mine back in and do him justice. This wasn't particularly important to me to convey in the translation, because I thought it was fairly clear, but maybe I should've? It really frustrates me that so many people automatically jumped to the conclusion that this would be an arbitrary, poorly-thought-out decision despite Yokoyama acknowledging that it wouldn't be. I guess a number of people didn't watch that far into the video, though.
[00:33–00:36] Yokoyama: だから、その、やっぱ・・・ やるならガチなんだよね。
Final stretch, let's go!
「だから、その、やっぱ・・・」 -> Literal: "So, [if we do] that, of course..." (emphatic) -> Final: "That being the case..." Again, very straightforward. Elevating the level of assurance conveyed in the sentiment as a whole.
「やるならガチなんだよね。」 -> Literal: "If we do it, we'll have to do it in earnest, won't we?" (emphatic, inviting agreement) -> Final: "If we do it, we'll do it right." This is one of the most important things in the entire video. Of course there's the openness to actually going for it, that's important in and of itself, but the emphasis on doing it right? That's something people always miss. Because if they want to get Nakamura back, if they want to write Mine back into the series, they DO have to do it right. And they want to! It's just ridiculous to me to see people gloss over this completely. Like, I was the one who "broke the news" about Lau, one of the people who broke the news about Kashiwagi, but none of these were decisions made lightly. Yokoyama is the first person to shut down "fanservice" for its own sake, and I know that because I've seen him do it time and time again with my own two eyes, even if it would be relatively benign like having Mack show the player how to use Photo Mode in Ishin or having Akiyama show up in Kiwami. When he makes these decisions it's because they've been weighing on him for over a decade. He was literally talking about how he wrote RGG Mobile as an "apology" to Kashiwagi for killing him off in 2013. It took him ten years to get to the point where he was willing to bring Kashiwagi back, but people act like he just flipped a switch, and it's simply insanely out of touch with how things are actually done at the studio. And perhaps I'm in the minority here, but Kashiwagi's death WAS a waste and bringing him back couldn't have been handled any better, in my opinion. I can see their commitment to "doing it right" because they have.
Sorry to get so heated at the end (honestly, I'll probably never be "done" talking about this), but I hope at the end of it all, I've answered your question adequately! For such a short clip, there really is a lot going on, so there was a lot of ground to cover. Feel free to send follow-up questions if you have any, I'd be happy to expand on anything I may have missed (although, with any luck, I haven't missed much).
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04tenno · 11 months
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It's a good list of grievances, print them out and nail them to people's doors. But about people making fun of Mine's accent- he's honestly speaking pretty clearly? That scene is still goofy and brings me great joy (obviously), but the awkward dialogue has always been the good bit. It's one of those scenes where there is clearly nothing being said on the other end of the line, and ending a call with Richardson with just "bye"?? Gold. Dogging on his accent alone is not only cringe but also missing the actual funniest part of the entire exchange
EXACTLY... It's about the delivery and the absurdity of the situation... it's about Mine not even giving Richardson enough time to hypothetically respond before moving on to the next thing he wants to say... it's about The JDrama Of It All, of course the rich CEO is bilingual... it's about the fact Richardson speaks Japanese anyway so this was totally gratuitous... it's about Everything Other Than The Accent
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04tenno · 11 months
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Again thank you so much for going out of your way to write up this post, I love the nuanced breakdown on not just language but also the context- especially with Japanese where things feel particularly reliant on that.
BIG help w the 「ちょっと」 part, that was what was massively throwing me the whole time. Also, actually seeing 「辛いじゃん」written out helped me hear it in the clip. I was having a hard time making it out initially.
Speaking of making things out, that unintelligible bit does seem like it can't be helped lol, it gets jumbled for me at the same point it is in your translation too. It's frustrating because one can make out just enough sounds but it's still not identifiable.
Something else I think is interesting is that initially, on viewing the clip I heard:
「そんなに簡単にさ、 やっぱちょっと、んん…」
I had actually interpreted his bit about "winning" as separate thoughts from this, the same way he opened by saying Mine was cool. I had considered the above as the lead into his response to Kson's question of Mine possibly being "out there somewhere" vs connected to the previous thought where he was potentially talking about Mine winning him over.
I think that's actually because I went into the clip with only one thing in mind: MINE LIVED REAL. Therefore that bit, to me, read more of a "to bring him back so easily… (implied can't do it easily)" statement, related to the later mention of the difficulties that bringing him back would involve: Shido, making sure they do it right, etc. So, I think probably all my assumptions were colored by going in looking for Mine lives statements first.
Anyway, I really appreciated your response! My Japanese is almost entirely naturally acquired because it's what we speak at home, but that also means my language is limited to the kinds of discussions my family has haha. So, I don't actually know rules/grammar/all contextual usage or the why behind things. This was really helpful!
Of course, it was my pleasure! Thanks again for writing in! I'm glad I could help clarify those aspects, especially since context informed so much of my understanding. Being as Westernized as I am, I'm also in exactly the same boat with my own native language, so I totally get that. Though, while I never learned any of the "rules" for my native language, I can sort of meet Japanese halfway because it's grammatically very similar and I'm a professional copy editor.
No problem haha, it can be really tricky! As we see with Santo(?)'s line and later kson's. This is exactly why captions are important, and why I'd say getting a second opinion from a transcriptionist was worth it. I think perhaps next time I'll include the original Japanese. Really, there were a lot of things I wanted to do (like include the title of the original stream as a source or, you know, watermark the video) or should've done but which slipped my mind as I was rushing to have the clip out Wednesday, so I'll try to be more mindful in future.
Actually, I would say something along the same lines happened to me in terms of going into it with expectations... Because I originally clipped it because, you know, they're talking about Mine. But the second time I listened to the original full-length clip, I misled myself into thinking Yokoyama and Santo(?) had commented on Mine's romantic attraction/what it'd be like to date him, because my friend had mentioned earlier that they were hoping for further confirmation. So, you know, I'm glad cooler heads prevailed and I got it transcribed before I made a fool of myself lol.
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passports-pls · 15 days
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Commission for @esotericephemera !
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passports-pls · 6 months
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Commission for @esotericephemera !
(commission info)
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passports-pls · 7 months
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Part one of a commission for @esotericephemera ! Judgement blorbs because they like watching me suffer lmao
(COMMISSION INFO)
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echoes-sounds · 9 months
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Belated birthday present for @esotericephemera
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echoes-sounds · 11 months
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So this is my official looking for a roleplay partner post!
I have never done this before (properly) so forgive me if it’s lacking in anything important!
Hello! I’m Echo, I am 22 year old artist, writer and gamer and I am looking for someone I can roleplay dragon age (and potentially) OCs with! I like to think I’m relatively easy going and I would like it to be someone I can be friends with outside of rping, we can discuss the games, theories, what you had for dinner whatever is cool with me!
My writing style: I am a literate writer, third person! I will match length (though my preference is for shorter replies I can and will do longer as needed)! I am however not interested in role-playing in action style sorry!
Response time: I tend to reply really quickly! I however don’t expect you to do the same I simply have little impulse control but I am willing to wait for replies (also if I do not respond quickly I will likely forget to)
Platform: Discord! It is honestly in my opinion the best place to roleplay, a private server with tupper so we can have as many channels as needed!
What I’m interested in RPing
Dragon age! (I can rp the following characters; Lavellan, Solas, Abelas, Cole, Mythal, the Evanuris, Varric and I am willing to try most anyone else!)
OCs (I have a wide variety)
I am seeking mostly for someone who is willing to rp solas for my Lavellan/s! Different AUs, canon events, in between interactions, etc etc. But I will also play Solas in return, or another character whoever is your preference!
While I am only seeking 18+ roleplayers I have no intent on doing NSFW scenes unless I become comfortable to do so, I am willing to have lead up and heavy flirting, fluff etc, but would ask that we fade to black.
Tropes and scenarios I enjoy playing
Angst
Fluff
Romance
Slow burn
General storylines
Enemies to lovers
Friend to lovers
AUs
Character types I enjoy playing
Sad (all of my OCs are traumatized oops)
Vulnerable (I enjoy playing a damsel in distress sorry not sorry 💀)
Really I am down to play anything though as long as it’s fun!
Writing examples
Starter from a roleplay
Some spicier solas replies nothing heavy NSFW
Chapter 1 from a fanfic I never finished or posted anywhere 💃
My dragon age characters
Nolwyn Lavellan
Solasmanced inquisitor, a mage, knight enchanter. Partially spirit (gives her the ability to dream)
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Raine Hawke
Romanced Fenris, a mage, supports mage rights and mage fights, she is the last Hawke.
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I also have another Lavellan concept I would like to try out! (Not romanced) I will discuss more with interested parties!
If you’re interested please shoot me a message or reply here!
All art featured by @esotericephemera
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