#fandom grievances

[soliloquent-stark]

6 & 15 for the air your grievances ask game <3

6. What's the most likely reason you'd unfollow someone on tumblr?

either posting too much content that is completely irrelevant to me and unfortunately clogging my feed, or bashing characters/ships, again to a level i can't tolerate. i know i responded in a different post that all opinions can have space on tumblr, but that's why i ignore or unfollow — i'm not gonna engage with it. let people say whatever, but i don't have to read your 12-page essay on why my ship doesn't make sense to you. also any kind of speculation on the personal lives of mcu actors (cough cough chris) will get you unfollowed and maybe even blocked because... what the fuck.

15. Name an aspect of [insert character] that you think gets frequently overlooked in fanfiction characterizations/deserves more attention/exploration

you didn't specify so i went with tony — many fanfics will talk about howard's impact on tony, the ptsd after new york, civil war, thanos... but i personally think the trauma of being betrayed by who was your only parental figure for years, and a trusted business partner on top of that, someone you even called uncle... that's trauma that needs to be explored. it's unfortunate he's not really mentioned again in the mcu, even though it's clearly a huge moment in his life and adds to his trust issues. besides the arms dealing, the man tried to have him assassinated then tried to kill him himself, like, hello?? plus overall the trauma of afghanistan, captivity, torture, seeing your name plastered on their weapons, the open heart surgery, losing yinsen... iron man 1 really does pack a punch, doesn't it?

and losing jarvis in aou, too. that should be talked about more, for sure. he was basically his best friend for so many years. ugh. :(

#ily k #ask game #fandom grievances #answered

[taintedsorrow]

A character saying something about themself doesn't necessarily make it true. A character saying something about another character doesn't necessarily make it true either. Characters lie about themselves, and to themselves, all the time.

They misinterpret and misunderstand the intention of others. They don't always have all the data, but will feel compelled to come to incorrect conclusions anyway despite those missing pieces. They miscommunicate. They project. It's part of what makes writing about and reading about characters interesting. It's part of what pushes a narrative.

It's always worth trying to figure out if what someone is saying or thinking should be taken at face value or not. And why. Because interrogating that leads to a much richer inner world and complex story. I just don't get what is engaging about a story if you never delve below the surface tbh.

#today is a day off and i have too much brain fog to write fic #so i'm just kind of brain dumping #fandom grievances

[be-the-glenn-to-my-maggie]

Hey, so I saw your post about some fics demonizing Neytiri. That has actually been one of my major fears as a fic writer, attempting to balance Neytiri's extremely valid trauma and the POV I'm writing from (that is typically flawed in some way). I was wondering, since you seem very well-versed on the topic, what do you define as "demonizing" for Neytiri? Is it ok to write from a perspective where a character doesn't really like or trust her, as long as the trauma is noted? Do you have any resources so I can educate myself to properly write this kind of character?

I really want to make sure I'm doing right by Neytiri and improve as a fic writer overall, so any advice you could offer would be very much appreciated!

Whoa, what a complicated and nuanced question. A great one! And I'm super flattered you came to me! Just one I'm going to try to answer to the best of my ability. I'm assuming you're referring to Norm's pov in your fic?

First of all, I do not want to at all proclaim to be an expert on generational trauma; I am not a person of color, and I have been lucky enough to have a very normal and healthy family. I just had a best friend growing up in an abusive household and took steps to educate myself best I could to understand the situation, which I believe anyone would do. So I'm just gonna try to word vomit out my thoughts for you, please ask questions or challenge any of what I say if any of you see anything you think is incorrect. Buckle in, this will be long.

What do you define as "demonizing" for Neytiri?

Demonizing means portraying someone as wicked or threatening, as evil or worthy of contempt and blame.

For me, demonizing for Neytiri is the trend I've seen lately of portraying her as this unyielding, animalistic type character who's hatred of humans, Spider specifically, goes so far that she gets physically violent with Spider and eventually ends up tearing apart her family. In these fics, Jake is always a sad sack loser bystander, loving his wife too much to step in but of course shamefully knowing how wrong what she's doing is. Infantilizing poor white savior Jake Sully, being brow beaten by his mean indigenous wife into neglecting a child is a weirdly strong take in this fandom. Often Mo'at is a wise elder chiding Neytiri for being unable to get over her prejudice. Mo'at and Jake understand Neytiri as much as anyone would, they wouldn't shame her. To me, it's an extremely reductive and frankly borderline racist characterization. When paired with a sympathetic view of Quaritch, it is at best irresponsible and at worst knowingly dangerous.

Neytiri is representative of an indigenous woman. I feel like I don't have to explain why making her violent, volatile, and completely unreasonable is a little bit of a harmful caricature. In these fics, for me, Neytiri ceases to be a person. She looses autonomy to sort of represent this monolith of hatred and prejudice that has hurt our little baby boy Spider. It's crazy to me that people can't apply the exact same empathy they have towards Spider (saving Quaritch) to Neytiri (not being able to trust Spider). They are the most foil of foil characters. Their storylines are extremely similar, if I'm being honest. Essentially, ignoring the fact that Neytiri is a member of a minority community being actively genocided by Spider's people is intentionally reductive. If you can empathize with Spider, and ESPECIALLY if you find Quaritch sympathetic, finding Neytiri's actions unforgivable is racism, plain and simple.

Also, side note, the lengths people go to where Neytiri just literally will not budge under any circumstances at all is INSANE.

(I read a fic the other day where she gave Spider to child protective services behind everyone's back. That's LUNACY. She only came around after she almost lost Tuk when Tuk was suddenly born prematurely and Mo'at came in and was like "Eywa made it so you can never have kids again because of what you did, have you learned your lesson yet?" Like?? I do not understand the HATRED some of ya'll have for her, the suffering you all think she deserves. She's having an EXTREMELY NORMAL trauma reaction to surviving GENOCIDE? Examine yourselves greatly).

But where I was going was Neytiri is the same character who pushed her parents to let them go to human school, fell in love with human Jake, defended him and trusted him despite her family, mated with him and lost her religious position because of it, and then had a bunch of part human kids with him, and adopted a fully freak of nature kid born of a human she loved and respected. She has human friends, she wears and uses human tech, and she forgave Jake after he had betrayed them. Basically what I'm saying is Neytiri, despite her continuous trauma, is the most open and curious and non traditional Na'vi of all time. Girl is READY to meet new people and learn new shit, and to be open to everyone. Sometimes I think about a no trauma Neytiri and I get emotional. I think it's crazy to say she would never budge on Spider, if it wasn't for his dad I'm pretty sure she would've softened lonnnnng ago, if not having liked him from the get go.

Um, that got way too long I have too many thoughts. Second half of your question.

Is it ok to write from a perspective where a character doesn't really like or trust her, as long as the trauma is noted?

This is a tricky question, because technically there is nothing you can't do as a writer. Of course, it also means there is nothing anyone can't criticize you for writing. Like, Colleen Hoover can say she's writing realistic depictions of domestic abuse until the cows come home, I'm still going to say she's romanticizing and normalizing it in a super callous way. Neither of us can stop the other. So yeah, of course you're okay to write from the perspective of a character that doesn't like Neytiri. I just think the point will be what your prerogative is. One of my MFA professors says it in a way I like and I'm sure I've referenced before, if you aren't trying to make a point about something that might have to have a trigger warning then don't include it. I always say I would take it a step further; if your point is to defend that thing, don't do it. So for me, my big points would be try not to project my own feelings onto the character either way; if the character is wrong about something and the narrative intends to show that they will either learn, or we the reader will grow past them. But to be sure what you feel the takeway of the piece is is what you wanted it to be, I guess.

Do you have any resources so I can educate myself to properly write this kind of character?

Well, I have a few on white writers writing BIPOC characters and the ethics of that if you're interested in that. But I don't have any on specifically writing generational trauma. I guess I'd say reading and absorbing are my biggest tools; so reading books/watching movies or TV that use the speculative to translate generational trauma, and learning about and taking in the real life examples the character is based on. Read up on some genocides, and indigenous people today and how their lives are still affected. Even just watch the news; we're witnessing a very public genocide being pushed right to our attention right now. And of course, that is not the only genocide happening rn, it's just the only one we're talking about, so there's plenty of real world case studies unfortunately right in front of us.

#this got way way too long #it's almost midnight and i still have work tomorrow #i was goING to answer a few asks during amazing race tonight and instead #just this #lol #my bad #hope this helps! feel free to ask or dm with any questions or grievances haha #keep in mind i am not an expert! #i am just someone who likes knowing things and is really annoying about consuming ethically #anyways spider fandom i need u to lay off my girl #fandom criticism of bipoc characters is somehow always a little rooted in racism #but that's because we've all got internalized racism my friends and we cannot escape it without daily intentional thought and conversation #neytiri sully #miles spider socorro #spider socorro #spider sully #jake sully #jeytiri #mo'at #miles quaritch #tuktirey sully #norm spellman #avatar #avatar the way of water #james cameron avatar #melissa og #melissa on avatar (cameron) #melissa is an english major

[undercat-overdog]

.

Deeply annoyed for many reasons (hey antis, russingon already has a 'cousin incest' tag: it's the tag 'fingon/maedhros') (hey others, it's really not cool to redate fic - outside of exchange, backdated, or new chapter purposes - and it's inconsiderate towards other authors whose time on the front page is shortened. other people want their fics to be seen too!) (gosh it can be lonely onstage at the devil's sacrament)

But mostly, I would really, really, really like my body to stop making masses and abnormal-looking cells that need to be cut out 😩 (hopefully just that; pleasantly painless biopsy taken this morning, so no path yet.)

#to be deleted #personal #and fandom grievances too ig

[lilac-hecox]

Dani not seeing eye to eye with Anthony and Ale isn't surprising to me. But I'm shocked about Ian and Zoe. They were the ones who were with her since she was a new hire. Maybe I'm just biased with the Smosh side but I think the Pressalike side may be the ones domineering the executive decisions. And the Smosh side can't help but agree because Pressalike is the more "successful" one.

Well, looking at her Linkedin it seems like she was a fairly recent hire? Maybe I'm wrong?

So, if we go off of this post then Dani was hired while Ale was already CEO and Smosh and Pressalike were already combined in certain aspects? I'm not super interested in making it a Smosh versus Pressalike issue (not saying that's what you were doing, Anon) and I honestly do not know enough about Ale and Zoe to have an opinion on how they run things.

I do agree though that the timing just looks bad and odd for a new CEO to be established in June and then less than a year later a handful of employees leave. Though I want to note I don't think anything shady happened with Jackie leaving. She had a better opportunity and took it and I think she would have left even if Ale wasn't brought on as CEO.

#ian hecox #anthony padilla #smosh #dani h #if i am wrong in this info let me know! #smosh discourse #smosh grievances #fandom discourse #anonymous #anon ask #answered #inbox #asks #answered asks

[dingleshartbeaufoy]

Amnesia: Rebirth and Misogyny

Hi! I’m rereading old Reddit threads and getting worked up over men males Annoying Amnesia Fans™️ deliberately misunderstanding the roles men and women play in video games. Here’s the fruits of my labor:

First and foremost: let’s debunk the obvious, frankly asinine counter-arguments.

“I don’t particularly, consciously hate female protagonists, so that’s not why I disliked rebirth/tasi” — if misogyny was only what you believed at the forefront of your mind, then we would not have misogyny. If misogyny was not a subtle plague that is hammered into you the moment you’re born, we would not have patriarchy. Just because you don’t know you hate female protagonists, doesn’t mean you don’t hate female protagonists.

Additionally: pregnancy is, if not inherently, a largely feminine thing. You cannot separate pregnancy from a uterus, and uteruses threaten men. The mere concept of pregnancy easily offsets a man and makes them denounce a game entirely, whereas women have dealt with all sorts of uncomfortable male topics (sexual abuse and violence against women, misogyny, fetishization etc) and dealt with it.

(Do you see where I’m going with this? The obvious double standard? That’s important later.)

Next: Tasi did not ramble any more than Daniel did, any more than Mandus did, either in general or about their children. The only time she really did was when she was narrating something that happened (common occurrence in horror games including amnesia) or the mechanic which is LITERALLY centered around dialogue, and changes based on your environment. That said, it’s also largely optional, and more often than not DOES serve a larger narrative purpose.

(Also— and this is my personal opinion- I think Daniel is poorly acted. God be damned if I don’t love him and his VA, but he is poorly acted. Hur dur are there dead people in the morgue Alexander).

On the same topic: Amnesia is not a fucking RPG. If you feel like you’re in the role of the character, great. That’s easy when they’re fucking silent as the grave the entire time except for letters and flashbacks. Amnesia has always been driven by two things; Characters and their motivations, and the fear of the unknown. (Rebirth checks one of those boxes).

Furthermore, when we look at the general consensus on rebirth, most of the reviews will be from men, because amnesia arguably has a predominately male audience. The reviews I’ve seen from women, though, all say they felt plenty immersed with Tasi as a character, that the game reflected their own fears.

Men (I am not going to specify not all men for the millionth time, fuck, if it isn’t about you then it isn’t about you) refuse to empathize with women the way women are forced to empathize with men because in gaming, and in the world, men are represented in all sorts of ways, where— at least for a very very long time— women had very slim pickings and, in recent years, there’s only been a handful of gems.

(No, don’t say Bayonetta or Peach. Do not fucking say Bayonetta or Peach. If those two roles were all women could ever be in video games, forever…)

You could argue you tired of Tasi talking about her child the way you grew tired of Mandus doing it, but Mandus very, very seldom verbally laments about his children the way Tasi does. You cannot reasonably draw that conclusion.

(I don’t see Oswald being condemned for, fuck, for what? For having children? The way Tasi is, either. Surely there is a systemic reason for that.)

Also: Tasi is held to a FAR higher standard than any male protagonist. When we see a male character we automatically take their actions and don’t view them at face value, we consider the shades of gray which is the very same theme the original game hoped to convey. Did Tasi truly do anything worse than Daniel? Then why do you shun her so deliberately while excusing him?

(Truth is they’re fictional and you shouldn’t act like either of them should be put before a court or something or other. But come on. Are they truly comparable?)

Female characters are slightly annoying once and are raked over the coals. Male characters can genocide an entire fucking country and people will still forgive that.

All in all: Misogyny is literally baked into our society. A game with a female protagonist will 100% of the time be subject to more criticism no matter what and Tasi is no exception especially because she experiences something directly correlated with women.

We could relate to Henri, I doubt many amnesia fans served in world war 1. We could relate to Daniel, I doubt many amnesia fans were manipulated into murder. You cannot relate to one fucking pregnant woman and her baby?

(I will say ONE thing to credit these people: the birth scene was uncomfortable not because it was childbirth but because Jesus fucking Christ doctor can you stop staring into the depths of my soul.)

#that said many of the grievances do not have to do with the gender or tasi #I’m not talking about that #or chalking any criticism at all up to Ahhh u hate women #also jfc men please listen to women #when they’re talking about experiences in a place where they have ALWAYSSSS #been excluded and marginalized #not a good look to shut us down immediately #when we’re not only underrepresented in the amnesia community slash fandom #but also gaming as a whole #amnesia game #amnesia rebirth #tasi trianon

[truthsinwhispers]

I don't WANT to unfollow the hunger games tag but I'm getting REAL sick of recommended posts shoving Snow x reader in my face tbh ://

#y'all missed the point of that new film methinks. holy fuck. #if i have to block one more “oh my god look at my dilf husbando imagine him knocking you up” blog i'm gonna throttle someone. #“he's a sympathetic villain!” you. you're missing out on the “villain” part and completely misunderstanding the point of it. #read the actual books. please. these movies were a mistake in terms of how it got fandomized to hell and back. #ANYWAY rant over this is a petty grievance but i have a lot to say.

[failchild]

literally the only concrete things we know about dora is that she's 1.) scandinavian 2.) middle class and 3.) extraordinarily nice about the fact that her ex from six years ago calls her at 4am

#fandom projecting their grievances onto dora like harry does...sad!

[soliloquent-stark]

How about 2 (stony), 7, and 15 (steve) for the pet peeve ask game?

2. What's your biggest [insert pairing] pet peeve(s)?

i wasn't sure if it meant fandom takes or my pet peeves about the pair, so i went for the former because i could not think of a specific pet peeve i have about them as a duo?

so, from a fanfic/fandom pov, it's probably when someone has a preference that is so obvious, it ruins the balance of the ship. for example, being able to tell that someone kinda dislikes steve by making him uncharacteristically mean, or forgiving and justifying all of tony's actions but catastrophising all of steve's etc. i think the beauty of stony is that they're both fucked up in their own way and they keep misstepping and trying to fix things, and portraying one as a victim and one as evil doesn't sit right with me (it can work for certain prompts, but i'm thinking more about some mcu canon fics/takes).

7. (Without naming names) what's something you've come across in a fic that made you genuinely uncomfortable and/or angry?

ahh, this is hard. one thing that comes to mind is when an immortal supersoldier steve pressured tony into taking a not-very-safe early version of extremis just so they can be together forever? or something like that. i remember thinking not only would steve never ask that of him, but he'd definitely be against the risks?

15. Name an aspect of [insert character] that you think gets frequently overlooked in fanfiction characterizations/deserves more attention/exploration

this is for mcu steve: i understand why we all kinda minimise steggy as part of steve's journey from a stevetony perspective, but i always feel like her death and steve having to carry her coffin in the midst of the civil war drama is a bit overlooked. i think steve was at an all-time low in that film, and it reinforces why he fought as hard as he did for bucky. after she passed, he was truly his only anchor to the past. and as much as i don't like his ending, i think steve fooled us all that he's fine and has adapted to the new century, but i think he carried this trauma with him all the way to the end, and when he saw an opportunity to belong again, he went for it. i guess my point is that, canonically, steve presents himself as strong no matter what, but i don't know that he ever felt fully at home in the future. so, even if he's happy with tony, i don't believe that would be enough to fix it all, and similarly to a widowed person who will always love their late partner because it wasn't a breakup that separated them, steve would always have a part of his past deep in his bones, and he would need therapy, and him and tony would have to navigate that, together.

#thank you for the ask! idk if my answers make any sense i kinda lost the plot halfway through #ask game #fandom grievances #answered

[captain-hen]

personally, i think buddie should go canon for everyone except the people who badmouth kristen and call her homophobic

#anyway when will you people learn that fanworks are not the place to make comments airing your grievances about her #neethu speaks #fandom discourse

[the-owl-tree]

If you're still doing these, thoughts on Nightcloud?

honestly ppl can ask my thoughts anytime (and share their own!!) these are very fun and i love rambling

nightcloud defender here i will fight for her no matter what. if the world is nightcloud's enemy then the world is my enemy. she just a normal ass mom, that's it! honestly the most interesting thing going for her is that she was a mudclaw supporter and i wish we got to see more into windclan post-civil war.

there's not much to say about her other than the hate she used to get was insane for a mom who didn't do shit and i will continue to defend her against every bad take i see. thank you.

#warrior cats #deer rambles #wc ask game #i've made posts on her before #and they kind of sum up all my grievances with how the books & fandom discuss her

[doomspiral]

You guys have got to stop posting your fandom salt in public. Its giving me a great blocklist though.

#just because you got an ask doesnt mean you arent an asshole for going off about petty fandom grievances #those are people in the same fandom as you #you are talking shit in public about people where they can see it #unlearn being this annoying #you will feel so much better i promise

[bookishfeylin]

Same finnrey anon. Ajjajahahs they so did poor Finn dirty. And yeah I saw some of the John Boyegas harassment (poor man, but some of his responses to them were pretty hilarious), but I never knew about that awful and disgusting name calling. I can't believe anyone would call Finn/John such things, and all for a ship or his race? Gross! People need fucking help.

Yeah, it was horrible. That's not to say that Reylos, other sequel trilogy characters and ships, and other cast members didn't get hate as well because the Star Wars fandom is incredibly toxic, but Reylos made the unique decision to be racist and wildly antiblack in their hate of the character/actor. It started with them turning around the allegation that Reylo was abusive and claiming Finn was abusive, actually, and it spiraled into "Black man bad" from there and then into, uh, more blatant racism. Like the name calling. There's a lot to be said about how Kylo was found to be relatable, worthy of redemption, secretly good, and deserving of being the lead despite his being a, uh, genocidal maniac whilst Finn was viewed as evil because--and I kid you not--he grabbed Rey's hand in one scene in The Force Awakens. And yes, I like villains, and I am opposed to any kind of harassment over ships and whatnot, but the hypocrisy and racism was something else. *mutters about an essay about the villification of Black characters vs the woobification of white villains incoming* The same "ship and let ship! Fiction doesn't equal reality!" people suddenly decided that only applied to white characters, and checked people who felt otherwise by being racist towards Finn and John Boyega. They don't genuinely believe ship and let ship, they only feel that way for white characters and ships and have no qualms about being just as bad as the "antis" they claim to oppose, and Reylo exemplifies this. They chose to be nasty, chose to be racist, and for that I will forever side eye them. Most Black fans still do. Aside from @diversehighfantasy there's also @rootbeergoddess , @positively--speculative, @blackfilmmakers , @lkeke35 and many others.

There was just... a lot of nonsense, and many Black fans left the fandom. There's a reason why, across all fandoms, most "fandom moms" are white, and it's not a good one.

Edit: Also- @shewhotellsstories and @starwarsfandomh8speopleofcolor

#ask #anon #star wars #whew #sequel trilogy grievances #i believe visibilityofcolor talked about it too before leaving tumblr #man it was rough #fandom racism

[lilac-hecox]

Not trying to be bias since i really would want to hope that the people at smosh aren't at least actively malicious even if their actions are neglectful but knowing Dani was only there for a couple months, I can understand unfollowing mainly leadership even if those people specifically werent the source of grievances. As much as even my supervisors can be nice, theres a barrier between boss and employee where I only follow them for the networking and keeping up to date with work stuff opposed to coworkers who you're on an even playing field with.

That's true, honestly, two or three months isn't a lot of time to even really settle into a job tbh let alone get very close with people. Also, if I was upset at a company I would also likely unfollow my bosses and those who run the company that I had a bad experience at.

#smosh #dani h #smosh discourse #fandom discourse #smosh grievances #anon ask #anonymous #answered #asks #inbox

[cryptids]

.

The fact that I just saw like 4 different people jokingly say sasuke is a woman* and one say that he's the series' heroine (in the notes and all the anons flooding the best naruto character poll where he's losing to tenten bc ppl think tenten sweep is funny) is making me wilt away..... like I'm sorry but this series HAS a heroine and fandom treats her like shit and is already constantly trying to erase her presence in the story. I also enjoy joking about how my male blorbos are lesbians or whatever at times, but it's just making me sigh really heavily when it's coming from a fandom (not all of them but a large percentage of sasuke fans are particularly bad for this if I'm honest) that already interpret the series' female characters with the most bad faith readings ever and hold every flaw and wrong decision against them while excusing their male faves for doing far worse. I love sasuke but he really is not a feminist queen or whatever hdjfhs and the fact that people would rather give a man "honorary woman" status than show more kindness to their interpretations of the actual women characters is 😐

*this isn't about people who hc him as a trans woman/transfem (I haven't seen anybody do that but I have no issue with it of course) it's people making like "voting against [male character] is misogyny" or "[male character] is actually the best woman" etc. type jokes, which I normally find funny but think you should lose the privilege of making when you're in the world's most misogynist fandom gsjbfnsbs

#🐊 #n//ruto fandom related complaining lmao #censoring so it doesnt show up in any tags bc I dont wanna argue I just needed to vent #or air my grievances rather jsjjfksds

[novorehere]

Average G/t community vs vore community trope analysis and introspective

#op #sometimes I feel like a kid peeking over the fence watching their neighbors duke it out in the backyard #I love you G/t community I just find it a little bit funny that there’s so much dissent in the tiny little guys fandom #after the vore community is done airing our grievances you can come watch the feats of strength #we can roast cocktail wieners on toothpicks together #the great vore round table of 2022