A few observations on Old Yharnam
I’ve been playing a bit tonight and noticed a couple of things so there’s a list (if you have other things or thoughts on that feel free to add)
- there’s a lot of construction materials and bags, they seemed to be building or putting extra walls for protection? Seriously the higher part of old yharnam feel like freaking war zone too 💀
- before Djura’s tower, in the higher part of Old Yharnam, the buildings seems to have been barricaded quickly without too much preparation. With wooden boards and cupboards.
Why it’s unusual? Well in the lower part of Old Yharnam (before the blood starved beast) windows are protected by metal bars. Like we can see in central Yharnam too
That could mean only the very lower part of the city/ valley was concerned the. It spiraled down very fast out of control! (But for burning the places it’s no wonder…) many buildings are destroyed too.
- just before Djura and his helper (and at the entrance apparently) there’s a weird statue depicting some kind of weird griffin beast gargoyle monster
- a similar creature can be found on the blason in the lower part of the area V (exist of the church with the dead starved beast)
- in the church with the dead blood starved beast, The male beast patients are poisonous too! And idk what they doing here. A weird ceremony for sure
There’s seems to have been holes? In the ground, it’s immured now.
- Ritual blood on the altar
- Two more statues of men with beards.
- Alfred summon is red
Well i think it’s oblivious that the clocktower Djura is on is similar to the astral clocktower (the parallels with him and Maria are killing me some days)
-Wait is the church of the good chalice under the great bridge?? Or the aqueduct we take to fight Gascoigne? I am confused
And the last lil thing of the night but it’s in the hunter’s dream. I think some people/ wiki might have mentioned it before: if you can see Gehrman sleeping in the dream he doesn’t have nightmares yet. It activated after defeating Amelia and night time. He started talking about Laurence afterwards etc
(And there’s a few brooms and bassins/ buckets in the dream too lol. i guess they did clean at the workshop a while ago xD)
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Here's a lore ask: Why the hell are pyres still burning in Old Yharnam? It seems like the burning happened an extremely long time ago, with how everyone talks about it, and the fact that the ashen blood was started by the healing church seemingly before the choir came about. I'm pretty sure the Choir didn't have much to do with the research hall until Lady Maria's death since npcs and item descriptions comment that the research hall is the church's sins and not the choirs. We know that Yharnam and the Church have been around for a while considering that there have been generation's worth of Vicars. So point is, when the hell did the burning happen? Was Laurence even alive in that era?
It will be a 'collab' answer, because I showed your ask to @val-of-the-north when I received it, and before I could've even began to think about it, he suggested a solid idea! So, basically, you are asking about these:
This is what Val suggested:
I double-checked Old Yharnam myself in Bloodborne today, just in case, and... Yes, this is quite correct - these pyres are found as you open the sealed door and enter, and especially as you approach Church of the Good Chalice:
I will be fair, there is at least one pyre I remember that is somewhere midways... In fact, I think it was the only one so dislocated. In general though, Val is right, and I also think it is a solid idea that they double as funeral rites and as a warning for the beasts (to not go out) and for the hunters that would somehow sneak past Djura's rain of bullets (to not proceed)! Not out of realm of possibility that Blood-Starved Beast could've also been so aggressive that it would even attack other beasts, though.
Alternatively, yes, it would also be pretty neat if beasts themselves would've set these pyres. Beast Patient type feels slightly closer to humanity (female one wears a cape, they can climb the ladders, all that). I just think Djura (and maybe his ally) doing this would be more likely, since these beasts fear fire! Perhaps, the pyres like this ARE the "blasphemous ways of Yharnam":
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Okay, we are now at my part of the answer, which is about the timing of the events! You are right - that was the Healing Church, and also that it came before Choir. I will clarify though that it is even more evidential in lore; the Choir and its Orphanage evolved FROM the Research Hall:
You can ask for extra screenshots if you don't remember / can't access the game yourself right now / etc, but basically, not only that but also when we visit the Orphanage, we can see from the balcony more clearly that it is just Research Hall entrance from Hunter's Nightmare but without beds, we fight large Celestial Emissary in the same garden where more "cosmic" patients are in the Nightmare, Living Failures are visually implied to be early! Celestial Emissaries, etc... My quickest way to explain it is that creation of the Choir was the one final split between 'nerdy' Church (eyes) and 'normie' Church (blood healing), when previously they were doing whatever worked (for example, Adeline having been both Blood Saint and a patient of Church's attempts at obtaining eyes). But I side-tracked!
Basically, the burning of Old Yharnam happened a long time ago, and strongly implied to have happened at the very night when Hunter's Dream was conceived:
Set of the Charred Hunter is also notably worn by the NPCs named Djura's Ally and Djura's Apprentice:
(Using retranslation document by Last Protagonist just in case, as I always do ( x ))
Basically, somehow Laurence did the switch-and-bait with the cord the Church had to offer Laurence as host of the Dream, Old Yharnam was burnt and Powder Kegs were the ones doing it at the same time. It is not 100% stated, but I feel like mention of "that moon" would imply Bloodmoon/Paleblood, of course, since summoning Great One(s) with an infant (which Third Umbilical Cord entails, as we could see from Mergo) will trigger it:
Interestingly, it means that Rom's concealment did not exist during Laurence's ritual, but it already did during Mensis ritual. Use however you like!
And this is also why many people agree that Djura must have been the first Dreaming Hunter - someone able to be involved in burning of Old Yharnam, while not being able to die until the night ended... No wonder it would've broken his heart to go through all that...
I would say these piles are a much better example of what left of the people (beasts?) that burnt on that night:
Disturbingly enough, the anatomy in these piles is very much human, so those burned in Old Yharnam's tragedy were not only beasts themselves, but also simply people living there - perhaps, as "preventive" measure, with the Church believing they were infected too... ...or spreading that belief, to support the narrative about beasthood being transmitted like plague, and not though blood.
Don't quote me on that, but I prefer to also think that the beasthood tormening Old Yharnam was an honest mistake from Laurence / Healing Church!
You will notice that this beast appears to be crucified Blood-Starved Beast variant - an infamously venomous beast, otherwise found in Loran (the only other area where Beast Patients variant of the beasts is!) and Hintertombs (all-over highly poisonous pool). A smaller, non-boss variant is protected in Hunter's Nightmare by Djura's Apprentice... figures. And that altar you see over there? It is where you collect the first ritual blood you can reliably access in the game!
So, I feel like they did try to heal people with the "miraculous" blood, but... this particular blood was poisoned, causing illness Gilbert has, rather than average 'strong health boost but you should be careful now'. Again - not downvoting the idea that causing Ashen Blood was a planned action to MAKE people sick (and thus need blood healing), just prefer the idea of Laurence wanting it to be cool but taking L as usual lol.
In any case, Beast Patient is sure whatever happened with Old Yharnam dwellers, over whatever they had to imbibe. I think the rare Scourge Beasts found in Old Yharnam were hunters (likely Charred Hunters) that turned into beasts upon getting a bit TOO invested in the hunt, hahah... Including this unique Scourge Beast with red eyes, the one and only in the game that can deal poison of this type:
This is the only way I see why in the town infected by Ashen Blood (that becomes Beast Patients type) there are more 'normie' beasts. You could say they got..... burnt out at their job fdsjhfhsfhdfsd Not to mention an-okay number of Beast Patients, despite the town having been "cleansed", could simply imply that too much chaos happened, the Charred Hunters died, became beasts or ended up quitting like Djura and his allies did (many NPCs wearing Charred set are also currently in Loran and named 'Izzy's Follower' as NPCs). Basically, the quest only succeeded as much as it did, leaving enough Beast Patients to form sort of a "population". It is hard to tell whether Beast Patients can reproduce, though...
Other beasts associated with Ailing Loran, the Silverbeasts, drop the stillborn/miscarried/whatever infants, but we can't confirm whether Beast Patients are cursed and ill in the same way? I think it'd be really cute if beasts of Old Yharnam could still reproduce, with their babies being beasts already, and maybe lifespan shortened because of the condition; again, would work really good with Val's idea of some Beast Patients just dying on their own, from old age and/or being sick.
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Thank you for the ask!
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Going through old yharnam and I didn't expected to be THAT difficult, there was a literally other hunter that pops through a staircase and try attacking me when I was on the ladder, and then I reach up to the roof with the guy with the machine gun, and I watched a jacksepticeye video and he had this trick of constant shooting at the guy and so I tried it.....and the fucker hadn't fallen at all, and I died! Is there any other way that you can defeat the guy, cause I know he is going to be annoying,
Now my death count on this game is 12😩 and literally most of the deaths are from crows and dogs,
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