#spiderverse meta

[fermented-writers-block]

Not gonna lie, with the Spot’s upcoming time mucking shenanigans as suggested by the flashes of the future in Miles’ vision, I would not be surprised if the dimensional collapsing theorized by Miguel to come from averting too many “Canon Events” will turn out to be a side effect of something the Spot will either do himself or set up to screw with Miles.

Particularly, with how much his origin monologue to Miles and Jeff centered around the idea that he made Spider-Man and vice versa, note how incredibly well that mentality would dovetail with Miguel and the Spider Society’s belief that the “Canon Events” are what made them Spider-Man.

@kindaorangey has a good post pointing out how the Spot’s mindset of “filling the hole with more holes” is a pretty apt metaphor for the way Miles, Gwen, and likely the other spider people diving into the identity of Spider-Man as a crutch for dealing with the isolation caused by said identity, but suffice to say, OP and @sir-adamus had these tags which I'd like to use as a jumping pad:

For this, we can analyze Miguel and Spot as two sides of the same coin, where Miguel’s side is about allowing canon events to play out through inaction, and Spot's side could potentially lead up to (as a side effect of his grudge against Miles) actively ensuring that only those canon events happen, with any deviations that don't fit into their views being cast aside.

The former position projects personal traumas as absolutely necessary and destined to happen onto others, the latter position rejects any possibility that things could go differently in a quite literal manner. But in the end, both ultimately are about "filling in the hole with more holes" and dictating what Miles "should" be like.

Miguel doesn’t think Miles is a real Spider-Man and that him becoming Spider-Man was a mistake that never should have happened, all from his obsessive mentality surrounding Canon Events. He and by extension the other Spider-Men stuck in their hole of guilt and fatalism, surrounding themselves with other Spider-Men stuck in their holes of trauma and grief to where they have formed an echo chamber that tells them Miles cannot save his father's life and that they cannot do anything to save people anymore.

And in the Spot's case, the metaphor already came from him, but it's all about obsessively centering his new, lonely existence around being not just A, but THE nemesis to Miles' Spider-Man. He lost everything and has nothing except his connection to Spider-Man. To fill that hole, he's not only only making himself a villain that Miles will actually respect. He's going to try his damnedest to make sure that Miles reaches his full potential as Spider-Man just like he talked about in Mumbattan, and fill the hole with more holes in Miles' life until Miles is devoid of everything except the Spot.

Given the flashes of future events in Miles’ vision, if and when the Spot inevitably hears about Miguel's theory of Canon Events, it would only be fitting if the Spot retroactively becomes responsible for all the previous dimensional destruction the Spider-Society dealt with. And thus, Miguel's theory obsession would be its own recursive creator.

A vicious cycle of telling themselves that things have to happen a certain way, of blaming uncontrollable circumstances on something they think they can and should control, and of refusing to let go of the spiral they've fallen into.

After all, Miles already had an Uncle Ben-type event and the Spot is trying to set up a Captain Stacy-type event. Since the logical conclusion to the themes of Miles choosing what kind of Spider-Man he wants to be and not allowing preventable tragedies to happen would be that Jeff lives, well…

It would only be narratively fitting for the Spot to try to set up a Gwen Stacy event later down the line.

Because if Miles being bit and the Spot getting caught up in the collider wasn't destiny, if the intersection of their lives was simply due to circumstances they had no control over, if the dimensional collapses weren't because preventing Canon Events is inherently destabilizing to reality in of itself, then Miguel and the Spot would have to look inwards and actually try to figure out how to fill the holes in their lives.

So Miguel tells himself that what he does has to be done, that only he is strong enough to do it, and that everyone should follow his lead and stop caring.

As for the Spot?

If he fails to kill Jeff and Gwen, and when it's proven to everyone else that Canon Events are not required lynchpins of reality like Gwen found, he might just decide to try to make them actual lynchpins across time and space.

Or at least, making it so that the only realities that can exist are ones where those events happen.

Aka trying to forcibly changing the multiverse so suffering huge tragedy becomes an inherently integral part of Spider-Man the concept, rather than a mere possibility. So many Spider-Men and their dimensions getting hurt in the crossfire, and all in the process of targeting Miles Morales specifically.

Truly, it would be quite resonant if and when the Spider-Society let and help Miles get to save his Captain and Gwen Stacy. Beating the Spot would no longer be about the concept of stopping a threat to the multiverse and their canon events, but about metaphorically ending the cycle of suffering and finding a way to move forwards beyond the guilt. They probably can’t actually change the past, but with this, they can fight to prevent it from happening to others.

#across the spiderverse #across the Spiderverse spoilers #atsv spoilers #spiderverse theory #across the spider verse spoilers #spider man: across the spider verse #across the spider verse #gwen stacy #miles morales #the spot #spiderverse meta

[littlebigmouse]

Rotating in my head how both Peter B and Jess Drew seem perfectly tailored to be Miles' and Gwen's mentor figures respectively and are also perfectly set up to fail their students.

Jess is cool and badass and detached just as Gwen is trying to be and that detachment is what puts pressure on Gwen and ultimately leads to Jess abandoning her.

Peter is a seasoned and experienced Spiderman with a happy, healthy and loving family. It's that familial love that's his weakness throughout the entire movie. He causes distractions and deflects because he doesn't want to tell Miles the truth and hurt him so badly that his distractions end up distracting him as well. He's seasoned and experienced, which at this point makes him as jaded and traumatized as Miguel, too habituated to grief, too relieved at his own hard earned happiness that he refuses to rebel in fear of risking the family he has left. Which is if course what ends up hurting Miles the most.

#peter why did you bring mayday to gwen's band assembly wtf #spider man: across the spider verse #spiderverse #spiderman #smatsv spoilers #gwen stacy #peter b parker #jessica drew #miles morales #spiderverse meta

[e-102]

SORRY LONG POST, scroll for atsv spoilers

thinkin about spiderverse movie and it’s soooo smart the way hobie acts and talks. when he realizes who miles is he’s already formulating how to work the entire situation out in miles favor. it’s not just the palms trick, hobie tries to get miles out of spider society IMMEDIATELY.

when jess drew says they’re all coming with her hobie says “i don’t follow orders, neither does he” which is funny! and you don’t initially understand why he would say that other than the fact that hobie has demonstrated he’s a non conformist for even the silliest things, so of course he would say that right? but after miles goes along anyways hobie puts his head in his hands because he was giving miles AN OUT.

hobie knows who miles IS he knows why miles is being called in and he’s already planning to get miles out.

he then subtly hints that things are a little less cool under the surface. hobie warns miles when no one else does, when he’s stealing parts for gwen’s watch (because once again, he already knows what’s about to go down) “bet you’ve got a nice set up, nice parents” Hobie KNOWS what canon events are and knows miles is before the big ones. miles says he’s in a fight with his parents and hobie says “that’s a bloody shame, cus you’re not ready for everybody else”

all of this while he knicks tech out of the wall and flaunts it to miles. once again it’s funny, an audiences first reaction is most likely to pick up that hobie is alluding to something, but be distracted by the comedy of his charismatic personality. it’s so smart, because even while he’s taking things he says “bet this doesn’t even do anything” (HES TALKING ABOUT DISRUPTING CANON EVENTS) miles replies talking about the tech “maybe it did before you ripped it out of the wall” to which hobie says “it’s propaganda bro”

and it IS. spider society as a whole is propagandized as a necessity to the stability of the multi-verse. they push that canon events MUST HAPPEN, but hobie doesn’t believe it or care. he’s purely looking out for miles, who is the little guy in this situation and an ‘anomaly’ from the moment they met hobie was looking out for him.

all of this culminates before the chase where hobie gives him the means to escape, visibly calms miles down and holds up his palms to remind him how to break out. then quits and disappears to wait for gwen so they can group back up. so good.

and anyways i have more misc thoughts about why hobie is in spider society anyways but that’s based on speculation so it’s going under the cut

okay the more you see that hobie is truly an anarchist punk who opposes authority and authority structures you have to think, why the hell would he join up with a spider society????

i think that’s it’s probably because of gwen. in the same way that hobie recognizes miles is at a disadvantage, he would definitely recognize that gwen is in a bind.

gwen has a trans narrative in this movie, she’s essentially been kicked out even if it wasn’t explicit, because she’s spiderwoman. she was taken in by jess drew and miguel and i assume she mostly stays on earth 928 with them or with hobie on his earth. that’s why her toothbrush and her sweater are at his place, because he lets her crash there since she’s essentially homeless.

i have to add that gwen’s position in spider societal is shaky. jess drew may have let her join up, but it’s shown many times that jess is unwilling to defend gwen to miguel. gwen KNOWS this, when she answers to jess drew she begs her not to tell miguel when she’s messing up and jess is largely unsympathetic.

gwen’s last interaction with her father ended with him pointing a gun at her. it’s not a stretch to say that gwen is really unsure of whether or not her father would’ve hurt her. she desperately does not want to go home because of that, and also because she doesn’t want to trigger the canon event that she KNOWS will end in his death.

gwen desperately, desperately, does not want to go home.

as for hobie, hes clearly shown to be someone gwen likes a lot, her inflection when she talks about him and the fact that she stays so often makes me believe that hobie has clearly taken gwen under his wing. i think he’s done the same for pavitr as well!

pavitr opens up his intro by saying being spider man is easy. once again the truth of the statement and it’s meaning is somewhat obscured by comedy, considering being spider-man is really difficult for the protagonist, miles, who we’ve seen struggle with his parents for most of the movie until then.

but pavitr says this because it IS easy for him, he hasn’t gone through any canon events. he’s been spider man FOR 6 MONTHS ONLY!

hobie is shown to really love pavitr, they have a brotherly and playful friendship and play fight excitedly when they see each other. i don’t think it’s a stretch to say that hobie has taken both gwen who is balancing on a tight rope, and pavitr who is ignorant to the larger system that will soon press him down, under his wings.

so why would hobie join spider society? probably to look after kids like gwen and pavitr!

and this is also more speculation that gets looser as i go on, but i wouldn’t be surprised if hobie was waiting for miles specifically to cause some chaos in spider society.

i don’t have the exact line but when he realizes which spider-man miles is, he refers to him by his dimension number of 1610. (this line is the basis of my belief that hobie planned to help miles out from before the beginning) but anyways, doesn’t it follow that if hobie doesn’t believe in spider society, doesn’t believe in canon events, and is allied with them anyways that he is looking for the opportunity to oppose them?

it’s his ideological code to oppose oppressive power structures, and he clearly likes miles as a person and what miles represents.

#spiderverse spoilers #across the spider verse spoilers #spiderverse #across the spiderverse #spiderverse meta #meta #hobie brown

[aspiringsophrosyne]

One thing I only realized in hindsight that I think is really striking is because...of course. Of course, Miles would never buy into Miguel and the Spider Society's "Canon" philosophy. Not just because he wouldn't want to stand by and just let horrible things happen to people, especially people he knows and loves...

But because the challenge Canon represents is one he's beaten once already.

The conceit of Canon events is essentially a trolley problem. There are two tracks: one set with one person tied to them and one set with several. Someone will die no matter what, but if the trolley is rerouted to the track with only one person on it, then fewer will die. Right? Likewise, if a Police Captain dies, the multiverse is saved.

But in Into The Spiderverse, the same problem is presented to Miles and the visiting Spider-People.

The Spider-People needed to use the collider to go home, or they would all keep glitching until their bodies disintegrated. But, they needed someone to stay behind and shut down the collider after, or it would threaten their various universes and beyond. In other words, one Spider had to strand themselves in Miles' universe to save everyone and everything else. Peter B. reveals to Miles before they set off that it's himself, even though they both know it's a death sentence.

All by themselves, there's nothing else the multi-versal migrants could've done. They had to get as many people out as possible, and they also had to stop the collider. No one could shut down the collider and escape succumbing to glitches.

Except for Miles.

After they leave him, Miles gets the reassurance, love, and support from his father that he'd been needing. This sets off his apotheosis, allows him to join the rest of the Spiders, and be the one to stay while they all go home. And since Miles is from the universe in question, as long as he can beat Kingpin, all the Spiders are safe, the collider gets shut down, and no one has to die.

While the confrontation at the collider isn't, as far as we know, a Canon event, it does present the same challenge: saving both the multiverse and the one person who seemingly has to die to save it.

In other words, Miles already beat this trolley problem once in ITSV. Miles wouldn't buy into the Society's idea that you not only can't fight fate, you must actively enable it, because...

Because he's not only fought fate once before, he's won.

And I believe he can do it again. 

#into the spiderverse #across the spiderverse #into the spiderverse meta #across the spiderverse meta #miles morales #gwen stacy #Peter B. Parker #Spider-man Noir #sp//dr #Peni Parker #Peter Porker #spider-ham #spider-man #spider-woman #miguel o'hara #spiderverse #spiderverse meta #jessica drew #spider-man 2099 #atsv spoilers #across the spiderverse spoilers

[candyfloss-esophagus]

what really fucks me up is the line 'i didn't know they made those in adult sizes' from peter b referring to the daypass that miles is wearing so that he doesn't. yk. die a horrible death immediately after setting foot in hq. it seems like a throwaway funnyman comment at first but then you realise that miles is really wearing an adult-sized bracelet. because presumably the only other person who needs one or is relevant to the movie is mayday. a toddler. a literal baby. miles, not half an hour before, had a conversation with jeff and rio and insisted that he was an adult and they needed to stop babying him. he was exasperated and, yeah, i get that. everyone is constantly demeaning and belittling miles for his age, calling him 'kid', trying to shelter him or purely underestimating him. he's at that weird in-between stage of his life where everyone insists he has to grow up and 'act his age' while simultaneously keeping kid locks on everything he tries to reach. that adult daypass is an outright mockery of the watch that would give him his freedom and allow him to really spread his wings and grow into himself and i'm so emotionally bitter about that.

#miles morales #god it just hits me right where it hurts #miles morales meta #atsv meta #atsv #esophagus speaks #across the spiderverse #spiderverse #meta #spiderverse miles #spiderverse meta #peter b. parker #peter b parker #miguel o'hara #rio morales #jeff morales

[deaddee-anime-brownfanlady]

Black Solidarity in Across the Spider-Verse.   Of all the meta analysis of this movie messages and layers to it.  This is by far one of my top favorite video on Across the Spderverse in regards to focusing on the more Black perspectives of this great movie themes and messages. Especially on the subject of Black solidarity going on between Hobie and Margo not even being super subtle with  it, with them clearly helping out Miles when he seriously needed it the most.   Especially with Margo who went against Miguel orders and didn’t try to stopped Miles when she had the chance to, also I knew Hobie was a real one from the very beginning with how he  that super helpful advice to Miles on using his palms instead of his finger tip when it comes to his electric venom abilities  or him clearly seeing Spider-Society flaws and not being down with it from the start.    

#youtube #Spiderverse meta #Spiderverse analysis #Spiderman across the Spiderverse #across the spiderverse #Miles morales #Hobie brown #margo kess #atsv #video #black solidarity #character analysis #Spiderverse spoilers #Spiderman across the Spiderverse spoilers #Spiderverse

[gutsygremlin]

Miguel saying that he can’t even look at Hobie is so funny to me. Why do you think he cares? He doesn’t answer to you, and he doesn’t care about your approval or your wrath either.

He’s literally here to steal your shit, look out for his drummer, and watch out for the Black kids and you’re projecting onto and terrorizing

#atsv #miguel o'hara #marvel #hobie brown #miles morales #gwen stacy #like he really does not give a fuck 😭😭 #spider man across the spider verse #spiderverse meta #hobie spiderverse #love Miguel but I hate authoritarianism more #I’m always gonna side with the leftist

[drachenfalter]

So I watched the new Spiderverse movie, and after looking a bit into the tag I can’t believe no-one picked up on the connection between Kingpin and Miguel.

KINGPIN'S GOAL IN THE FIRST MOVIE PARALLELS MIGUEL'S TRAGIC BACK STORY/MOTIVATION.

And it's so blatant.

Kingpin funded Doc Ock's research into the multiverse to get back the family he lost. Miguel also lost his family, and used the multiverse to "get them back". At least for a while, before that blew up in his face, and he started his whole spider society.

But it doesn't stop there.

Everyone already pointed out that Miguel unfairly blames Miles for the death of Peter Parker and the events that followed.

But this is also a direct parallel to how Kingpin blamed Peter Parker for "taking away" his family, even though it’s clear that it was Wilson himself who drove them away with his actions.

So it's really interesting that Miguel frames Miles as the culprit, instead of the people who built the particle collider to mess with the multiverse.

Maybe because it makes it easier to deal with his own guilt.

#spiderverse #across the spider verse spoilers #spiderverse meta #Spiderverse Kingpin #miguel o'hara

[all-inmoderation]

Is this a spiderverse plot hole

If miles was bitten by a spider from another dimension and it changed his dna,,, then why doesn’t he subsequently start glitching in his own universe 1610. And why does he glitch in earth 42. Aint his dna and atoms and cells and stuff changed . Idk I’m not a science person

#does anyone have answer to this or should i just continue looking over this plot hole #across the spider verse #across the spiderverse #spiderverse #spider man across the spider verse #spiderman across the spiderverse #atsv #miles morales #miles 42 #miles g morales #spiderverse meta #atsv meta #the prowler

[whosmarinette]

I think at this point I might as well post my theory.

So where do the glitched out things go?

You know? When stuff starts glitching? Atoms don’t belong and stuff? And not only things, where did Gabriela O’Hara go?

“They cease to exist” I hear you say

“Bullshit” I say back

Physics is a great subject. I failed it in school, but it’s great nonetheless. And one simple rule of physics, the law that even most works of fiction, even fantasy tend to abide is the law of conservation of energy.

Things don’t disappear into nothing.

And there is something that even has been mentioned already in Spiderverse, established that it exists and functions, somewhere where things could go without creating collapses in physics as we know it.

HAMMERSPACE

In case y’all need a refresher on what hammerspace is, here’s a comic from the Wikipedia page for hammerspace that explains it better than I could

And when was this concept mentioned? Well, at least once, it was mentioned by the most cartoonish character - Peter Porker, aka, Spider-Ham. I don’t remember if he outright called it hammerspace, but he used it most prominently.

And what was his parting gift for Miles?

A GOD DAMN HAMMER THAT CAN FIT INTO HIS POCKET.

“But maybe it’s only Spider-Ham that uses hammerspace, to signify he is a classic cartoon!” Some of you say, thinking you are very smart

“Where do Hobie’s hair go when he wears his mask?” I ask, and none of y’all smarties can answer.

Spiderverse has established that hammerspace is something that, knowingly or not, basically every and any spider-person can access.

So we have a vast space, where things that basically need to be hidden, usually go, and we have things and people glitching out of existence. Isn’t it logical that those two things are connected?

Wouldn’t it be really fucking funny?

#into the spiderverse #itsv #across the spiderverse #atsv #spiderverse #spiderverse meta #spiderverse analysis #spiderverse theory #hammerspace

[fermented-writers-block]

You know, I just can’t stop thinking about the achronal time weirdness of Miles’ vision of the future.

I’ve talked before how - due to the overall themes surrounding “Canon Events” as well as Inspector Singh’s unexplained appearance in said vision - I suspect the Spot may retroactively become responsible for the dimensional collapses the Spider-Society has encountered from too many averted Canon Events.

All perhaps from an effort to try to force tragedy and suffering upon Miles that might accidentally end up affecting all those other Spider-Men, but still. However, it just hit me that we have already seen a hint of this time weirdness before, and to a degree that supports my theory even better than the vision.

Namely, Gwen explicitly arriving to Earth-1610 a literal week before the collider incident that brought the five alternate Spider-Men over.

Dear lord is it terrifying to picture the Spot realizing his dark matter doesn’t just affect space, but it can also be used to affect things through time as well…

#across the spider verse spoilers #across the spider verse #atsv spoilers #the spot #spiderverse meta #beyond the spiderverse #beyond the Spiderverse theory #miles morales #gwen stacy

[selenestarmoon]

The Spot's Seek for Respect and Revenge

Contrary to what many people think, Spot is an interesting character but, as happens in the movie, he is underestimated by everyone, so I decided to write this post to analyse this character.

His arc is a perfect mix of a comic relief character who seeks everyone's respect and a character who puts his revenge above all else to the point of hurting himself and others.

DUDE, WHERE'S MY RESPECT?

Let's be honest, everyone looks down on Spot and when I say everyone I mean EVERYONE because not only is he treated by Miles as just another villain in the crowd, Miguel ignores the potential threat that Spot is to the multiverse and dedicated himself to chasing Miles for the entire half of the movie but even we the audience underestimated him by dismissing him as comic relief but Spot is tired of everyone underestimating him and he proved to be a real threat he took both all the characters and the entire audience by surprise.

This desire to be respected is quite reminiscent of characters like Inosuke Hashibira, King from The Owl House, and even Ken from the Barbie 2023 movie: characters who are considered comic relief by everyone but are frustrated that no one respects them or takes their feelings seriously and decide to take actions to make everyone respect them. These characters are tragic and have serious self-esteem issues but the narrative presents them to us as comic relief to make us, the audience, let our guard down.

Inosuke is seen as comic relief by bragging about how strong he is and doing weird things but is later revealed to be a boy who is deep down afraid of being a child whose parents abandoned him because they didn't love him only for it to be revealed that he is a boy whose mother allows herself to be killed by Douma to save him.

King is treated by everyone as if he were a living stuffed animal and the character clings to being a demon king when in reality he is a child who, like Inosuke, was abandoned and hidden by his father to save him from the titan trappers and the archivists.

Ken acts obsessively towards Barbie and acts quite funny because he was programmed to be her boyfriend and is treated like an accessory so his sense of identity is low to say nothing and he doesn't know anything else.

Spot also gets this treatment: he's introduced to us as a villain who tries to steal an ATM but doesn't know how to use his powers and even tries to convince the store seller that he's doing nothing wrong by taking the ATM and the store seller hits him and the way he introduces himself to Miles as he has loaves spilling out of one of his holes, calls him villain of the week and even his fight with Miles is basically Miles dodging him smoothly while chatting with his dad on the phone and even we the audience dismiss that his motivation to revenge on Miles is because he threw a bagel in his face when actually it's much more than that and the bagel thing is just the tip of the iceberg. At this point Spot is comic relief for both the characters and us.

But these characters seek respect and take actions that make them respected by others:

Inosuke proves to be a pretty good demon slayer to the point that he and Kanao with Shinobu's previous intervention manage to defeat Douma, King discovers his origins and his powers and is a key part of saving the Boiling Islands.

But just as respect is achieved through positive actions, the desperate search for respect makes others seek it through negative actions to the point of being threats to their world, just as it happened to Ken and is happening to Spot:

Ken sneaks into Barbie's car and together they go to the real world and Ken feels respected in the real world and after he discovers that the world is run by the patriarchy, he decides to bring it to Barbieland and turns it into Kendom, making the Barbies be the accessories of the Kens.

Spot learns to domain his powers and after merging with the collider from Mumbattan, becomes a threat to the multiverse.

Ken and the Spot go from being jokes at to being threats to their respective worlds. They prefer to be seen as villains than to be mocked by everyone because having power makes them important people and their very low self-esteem is raised.

It's okay to want to be respected, but when you seek respect through negative actions, you end up doing even more damage to yourself and those around you.

What happens to Spot is a reversal of Ken's character arc, so much so that I would dare to say that the Spot is the villainous and dark version of Ken:

Spot and Ken have the same funny personality but hide resentment and low self-esteem, they both discover something new and use it to gain everyone's respect, and Ken and Spot are obsessed with the attention of Miles and Barbie because they feel their existence is tied up in that but while Barbie, after she with the help of Gloria, Sasha, Allan and all the resistance make everything return to normal but giving the Kens the opportunity to have equality with the Barbies, Barbie becomes sincere with Ken and apologizes for not taking his feelings seriously and encourages him to discover himself, showing him that he is enough and Ken decides to follow his advice but when Miles tries to convince Spot that he no longer considers it a joke, he doesn't listen and merges with the collider.

The reason this works with Ken but not with Spot is due to two reasons:

Barbie knows it's not entirely her fault with regard to Ken's programming but acknowledges that she hurt his feelings, apologizes for it and even makes him see that he can be more than the role of being her boyfriend. While Miles knows it's not entirely his fault for the collider situation (it's Kingpin's fault for wanting to use it in the first place) and tells Spot that no one sees it as a joke, he doesn't acknowledge that he previously hurt Spot's feelings neither does Spot make him see that he can be something else than just his nemesis or that he can even be a hero with his powers which makes Spot even more attached to his role as Miles's nemesis.

Ken, despite being a doll, has a human appearance and has connections to others in Barbieland that aren't just Barbie. Spot, despite being human, does not have a human appearance nor does he have connections to anyone else, so he clings to his rivalry with Miles as the only "connections" he has.

Basically the entire arc of these characters can be summarized up in the chat beetwen Silco, Vander and Jinx from Arcane:

Vander: "You'll get people killed. For what? Pride?" Silco: "For respect."

Silco to Jinx: "It's okay. We'll show them. We will show them all."

REVENGE IS A DISH BEST SERVED COLD

Speaking of Silco, Spot's obsession with getting revenge on Miles reminds me of Guts, Silco and Neo in the sense that they seek revenge because all of them lost everything they had and also because the only thing that makes sense of their lives is to take revenge on those who took everything from them and to make things worse none of them respect Spot, Guts Silco and Neo and even look down on them which makes Spot, Guts Silco and Neo have more reasons to get revenge but Guts, Silco and Neo differ from Spot for the following reasons:

Guts still has loved ones who love him despite how tough he can be.

Silco has a bond with Jinx that despite being flawed is also a bond he developed because he related to Jinx's pain and said bond humanizes him and makes him think of something other than revenge.

Neo has the opportunity to choose her new physical form and she has the opportunity to rediscover herself to start again.

But Spot? he has absolutely none of these things. Spot doesn't have loved ones to care for him like Guts, he doesn't have a bond with someone he can relate to or humanize like Silco, and he has no chance to change his form or start again like Neo, even worse, Spot doesn't even have a human appearance like Guts, Silco and Neo do. That's why when Miles tries to stop Spot from merging with the collider he doesn't listen to him and it's because revenge is the only thing that gives meaning to his life and Spot doesn't want to lose something again as he lost everything else.

Spot lost absolutely everything: he is no longer human, his coworkers make fun of him and he lost his job, his family does not want to see him because they see him as a monster, he cannot reverse his current physical state and I doubt anyone would want to give him a job or that a person wants to date someone who looks like Spot so having a life, a job, a normal appearance and even a romantic relationship with someone is impossible for him so he clings to the only thing he has is his anger and revenge towards Miles to the point that he wants Miles to lose everything, making the only thing he has is his rivalry and thus making Miles feel just as lonely and miserable as him.

#spiderverse #spiderverse spoilers #spiderverse meta #across the spiderverse #across the spiderverse spoilers #across the spiderverse meta #the spot #johnathan ohnn #spiderman across the spiderverse #jonathan ohnn

[ghostly-lee]

#spidersona #spider society #art #my art #across the spider verse #spider man: across the spider verse #spiderverse meta

[little-cereal-draws]

My critique on the new spiderverse movie

It was good. I enjoyed it. But I do have a few things I would have done differently.

The most impressive thing in my opinion was the art. It was gorgeous, that goes without saying. The different styles, the textures, the lighting, every single little thing. I loved Gwen’s universe especially; how they water colored/blended the background during the emotional parts and how she was always the opposite color from the environment while her dad blended in. All the beautiful little tricks they did to help develop the characters like that. And then putting her mask motif behind her or having the background run like there was real water on it was so cool. I could watch it over and over without the sound and never get bored. It’s a visual feast.

I loved the extreme wide shots too. When Miles and Gwen are looking at the skyline, when Miles and his dad are talking by the portal rubble in the beginning, etc. When in the middle of a conversation, the characters are tiny little specks, and you can stop and appreciate the setting. Movies don’t normally do that in the middle of scenes; I liked it.

Or when they paneled it like a comic so you can see what multiple characters are doing at once. I don’t think it was as successful during the fight scenes because there was so much going on that I had no idea what was happening. But it worked very well in the slower scenes and really highlighted those emotional beats. Like when Gwen is unpacking a bag on her bed while talking with her dad at the beginning. They split the screen so you could see a full body shot on her dad but get a close up on her reactions at the same time. That was genius.

The acting was also phenomenal. All the dialogue sounded so natural and conversational. The emotional scenes were emotional and the funny scenes were funny. Everybody served. I loved the little background comments characters would make during conversations; it sounded very realistic. I would love to see more animated movies like that.

The writing… was good. I felt like for the most part it was really strong but this is where I start having problems. I felt that most of the movie was good but the pacing in Miles' arc felt weird. After his mom gave him that speech about loving himself and not letting people make him feel like he doesn’t belong, I was like 'ok that’s what he’s going to learn in this story, that’s the moral.' But he seemed to instantly get it and not have any problems until way later. Like it could’ve been easy to start having him feel intimidated by all the other spider-people or doubt himself after seeing Gwen doing all these cool things without him. He would feel bad for a while but ultimately realize that he is special/important/loved when fighting Miguel on the train and have the confidence to tell his parents he’s spiderman after. Instead, he was confident through the whole thing, was mildly jealous of the other spidermen, had a very brief crisis of faith after the Miguel fight, but seemed to get over it really quickly when he talked with his mom? Like he was telling her how strong he was but I felt like it didn’t mean very much because even though we saw him beat up all these people, it never felt to me like he felt weak. He never doubted himself, he just did it.

But I can’t judge his arc in its entirety because it’s not finished yet. I wasn’t expecting a cliffhanger and I don’t really like it. I was excited to see him fight Spot and save his dad but it never came. I was hoping that he would tell his parents he’s spiderman, they wouldn’t believe him, he would save them from Spot with help from his new friends, him and Gwen would show Miguel it’s ok if not everything follows canon, and Miles' parents would accept him, the end. That’s what I was expecting. Instead, they started another plot line with evil Miles? Like… I’m not opposed to that, I think it’s a really interesting idea, but I don’t know how it ties into the main plot. Maybe this is what causes Miles to have a crisis of faith in the next movie? idk, we'll just have to wait and see.

The next thing is the villains. I loved Spot, he was the perfect counter to the spidermans' mid-battle banter. His introduction was so funny, his powers are really cool, and his design is unsettling; the perfect villian formula. But the one thing I wished they expanded on was his backstory. He explained how his whole life was ripped apart by Miles but it felt like a very typical villain backstory to me. I wish that we, and Miles, got to see it rather than just get told it. Like in the first movie, we saw Kingpins' family and how much he cared about them and it gave a clear motive to his actions. I want to actually see the repercussions of Miles' actions because just being told. It gives a reason for Spot's actions but it's super easy to forget and think he's being evil for the sake of being evil. I don't know where they would have included that in the movie though so maybe I'm being too harsh. Also why is he going after Miles? Peter B and Gwen were also there for the bagel incident. Until I see how Miles specifically screwed over his life, I feel like his backstory could be fleshed out a bit more.

Now I want to talk about Miles' fight with Miguel on the train. This is no fault of either of their characters or the writing in that scene, but I missed a lot of what they were saying. The battle was so fast (jumping on cars, swinging underground, flying, flashing colors, different art styles, etc) and there were so many different characters on screen that I was focusing so hard on what I was seeing that I missed most of what they were saying. This might just be a me thing, I asked my sister and she said she understood that whole scene perfectly, but I would have changed that sequence. Either slow down the chaos of the fight a bit or have the big emotional confrontation before or after the fight. It's not a major problem with the movie and probably my autism causing problems but that was an important story beat that I missed because it was a bit too busy.

The last thing I want to say is my reaction is probably affected by the fact that I went in with a bias/expectations. I know I'm seeing this movie way late and I've done my best to not spoil it for myself but you know how the internet is. I knew who Pavitr and Hobie were, I knew everyone was obsessed with them and Miguel, I knew there was an evil Miles, I knew Spot was the big bad, I knew that his dad being a police captain was a big deal. So I expected to walk out of that theater completely obsessed with a new character and immediately go home and reblog everything about them like everyone else was. That didn't happen. Pavitr and Hobie had way less screentime than I expected and Miguel... was ok. They were all really good characters with amazing designs but I didn't find myself particularly drawn to any of them. I think expecting my reaction to this movie to be as extreme as other people's was a mistake and contributed to my lack of enthusiasm leaving the theater.

It was still really good, and I definitely enjoyed it, it just didn't change my brain chemistry like I thought it would. I laughed (I laughed so much), I gasped, I felt scared, I loved the art and the blend of different mediums. I know for sure I'm watching it at least one more time, probably more, there are just a few things I would have done a bit differently. Amazing movie, very glad I watched it.

#this got long... whoops #idk if anyone cares what i have to say about this but here it is #spiderverse #spiderman across the spiderverse #spiderverse meta #across the spiderverse #across the spiderverse meta

[fierrochase-falafel]

Thoughts on Spider-Man: Across the Spiderverse and being different (Pt. 1: Miles Morales)

Just watched Across the Spiderverse and I think regardless of the argument of Gwen being trans or not (and yes, I will get to Gwen), there's something to be said about this movie's handling of the experience of being Spiderman as an allegory for outcasthood (and yes, this includes queerness pretty heavily), especially through the character arc of Miles Morales. This discusses both Spiderverse movies, so do note: SPOILERS ABOUND!

[I will add a quick disclaimer here to say that obviously my opinions only come from what I have learnt from other people or experienced in person. I cannot claim experience for everything I may mention, and even though certain minorities I mention may apply to me, I can't claim to know everyone else's experiences either, so this is just my take. In the end, I'm just some guy saying stuff on Tumblr.]

Spiderman has always been easy to read as a queer allegory because of, y'know: the hiding in plain sight, the lying, the exhaustion, often risk/danger if you're queer in an unsupportive environment, the suffering of not just the Spiderman themself but the people they love / who love them too. In Across the Spiderverse particularly though, carrying on from Into the Spiderverse, I really love the continuation of a really similar problem Miles had in the first movie. In the first movie, Miles was seen as weak and an outcast, even as he joined a new school where he didn't really fit in. He was someone who was not *really* Spiderman until the end where he was finally able to control his powers, proving himself to the other dimension Spider-people. It was a great arc, yet just when Miles thought his fellow Spider-people were on the same level as him, it was revealed to him that he's been the outsider all this time AGAIN. It turns out they were lying to him and the reason Miguel gives to him is that he is an anomaly, that he shouldn't exist. There's something in that which really hurts if you understand the feeling of thinking you're atleast somewhat understood and respected by people you thought you were equal to, only to have the rug pulled out from under you. I mean, I'd say it's a part of my own experience, moving to different schools / environments in different countries and being made fun of for not knowing things without me even realising until afterwards, and I looked like a downright idiot for not knowing things. It's like when everyone picks up on a joke you don't and you're being pulled along on a string like a puppet to entertain the people around you, just when you thought they saw you as one of them.

Even after Miles proves he is smart and can pull off being Spiderman, it's not enough for the majority of Spider-people to respect him, and he has to reckon with the fact that he will never stop being questioned and belittled for who he is. Doesn't that sound familiar? We see it in ethnic minorities being treated like outsiders regardless of where they are from, women being perceived as less smart, neurodiverse people being perceieved as less capable, trans people being seen as too naive to know what they're doing when it comes to transitioning. For Miles, it's finally at this point he lets go of the image of being Spiderman the way the others are- if he won't be accepted as Spiderman because he has not been through supposed 'canon events' and is disrupting them then so be it. As long as he identifies himself as Spiderman, as someone who protects the people as Spiderman, then who the hell is anyone to tell him he isn't! This is the epitome of reclaiming your own identity- his suffering doesn't define him as Spiderman but his passion and will do, and nobody is allowed to dictate to him who he is or how is story is supposed to go. I really love this: I feel especially many minority communities have people who say you can't really be said minority unless you have suffered enough in x ways, or unless you have gone through y things, but this is a really toxic outlook on people's identities and experiences. It's within debates with transmedicalists (I think that's what they're called?) who say people can't be trans unless they have a certain amount of crippling gender dysphoria, or when people say you need to have undergone a certain set of experiences to really be so-and-so nationality or even race. Miles rejects the suffering he (or other Spider-people, for that matter) is supposed to experience as a 'canon event' (from a queer lens, things like being ostracised from your family for your identity come to mind) and also accepts he is an anomaly, ceasing trying to blend in with the rest of the Spider-people as he knows it is pointless to try- without that, all he can rely on is 'doing his own thing', so he goes ahead to do just that.

It's meant to hurt to watch how much Miles wants to see his friends again with hints throughout the film- his A in AP Physics and future ambition to traverse the multiverse, his sketchbook, everything he does to try and not be alone in his experiences- only to find out the others really could have visited him. He wants to speak to the few people who understand his dilemma as Spiderman, and wants to be worthy enough to be one of them until he realises in this film that his own intuition is more valuable than Spider Society could ever be. And even if it hurts to feel like he's alone in this intuition and that everyone thinks he's crazy, it's still more reliable and worthy than the rules anyone else is trying to place over him...

This is my intepretation of the events from my perspective on how the Spiderverse speaks to people who feel different or incompatible with society- while I add nothing to the plot , I think points like mine are really well analysed in terms of the actual Spiderverse by Sage's Rain on Youtube ("Who deserves to be Spider Man?") which I really love seeing and I'd recommend checking out his video!

~ End of Part 1 ~

#spiderman #spider man #spider man across the spider verse #atsv #miles morales #spiderverse #itsv #spider man into the spider verse #spiderverse meta #a little personal #but not really #I love this movie so much you have no idea it has overtaken me #my love of spiderman has been in the process of being stoked with all these memes and now it's burning down my productivity #also I must shoutout pavitr my guy he's the best Indian rep I have seen in Western media actually #as a 'mumbattanite' can confirm he speaks truths alone #analysis time by me so I can track them in my tags #posts originating from my brain

[deaddee-anime-brownfanlady]

Honestly, I feel like some people seems to totally misinterpret Miguel character so much to the point that it makes me wonder did some actual payed attention to the same movie? How I've seen certain iffy bad takes of some who thinks he's just pure evil or that he's a villain.

I have to say when it comes to Miguel as a character is that I think he's a very fascinating and engaging in the fact that he's very much so different from the other Spider-men's in terms of both his superhuman like straight up Mutant half spider abilities with the fangs & claws, but also because he himself while still being a hero is very much a antagonistic character and foil against Miles on the basis of what it's truly actually means to be Spiderman.

On one hand with Miguel I can feel were he's coming from when it comes to not wanting the world's/multiverse to collapse....But at the same time I think it's obvious that Miguel is clearly self-projecting all of his deep pain & anger, issues, trauma and unresolved grief of what happened to his daughter and clearly putting himself at major fault for the destruction of his daughter earth /universe and projecting it all on Miles.

I think its apparent that the man is very much letting his inner turmoil clouds his judgment and making him see things in a very narrow one-track minded way in regards to the canon conformity.

Like I'm not forgiving what Miguel did to my boy Miles during that whole train case scene and what he put him through thus far, especially with him calling Miles a mistakes, which felt very much like an personal thing in the fact that Miguel most likely sees some parts of himself within Miles. Given that he basically made the mistake of replacing another version of himself thus disrupting said universe. So its makes sense for Miguel to not want Miles to end up making the very same tragic mistake as he did....yet Miguel still isn't super 100% highly sure on whether or not Miles saving his dad would cause his universe to end completely along with causing damage to canon.

Of course, from Miguel's viewpoint and what he's been through, I can get why he's really doesn't want to take that risk, I'm not trying to justify Miguel crappy actions with how he treated Miles. But whatever might go down within Beyond the Spiderverse is that I hope Miles manages to have some kind of major eventful meaningful confrontation with Miguel and managed to show him that no matter how impossible it seems or might be, is that Spiderman should always, always try to help no matter what.

I want Miles to show & also knock some much-needed sense into Miguel and prove to him that you should still at least try. Instead of simply just letting things play out and saying that Welp at a certain point you should no longer try to save someone because of supposed written destiny in canon.

All in all I just think that Miguel is such a cool but fascinating antagonistic hero and foil who while having real good intentions of not wanting the multiverse to fall apart....is to me clearly going about it in the wrong ways...especially in regards to Miles.

#Spiderverse meta #Miguel o'hara #Miles Morales #Spiderverse spoilers #Spiderman across the Spiderverse spoilers #Spiderverse analysis #Spiderman across the Spiderverse #atsv #Spiderverse #long post #across the spiderverse