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kaypeace21 · 2 years

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Alot of the plots were good - but some aspects just really made the season overall awful . How dare they do that to Max. I'm livid about that. You really had venca's curse represent su*cidal thoughts- which we see Max overcoming in part 1 . Then part 2: bam vecna k*lls max- the girl who str*ggled with ab*se, a horrible home life ,and throughout the season overcame her su*cidal thoughts but got an awful ending . And while dying she says over and over she doesn't want to d*e. It's cruel. Even if she does wake up from the coma - is she blind and or paralyzed and never able to skate again? Play videogames watch movies ?And for what- vecna is alive , and hawkins was still destroyed. Her sacrifice wasn't worth it. And Eddie's death was not only cruel but pointless too. He didn't even save anyone during the scene. And he literally mentioned how he did not want to become like his criminal dad . They kill him and the whole town thinks he's a worse criminal than his father. And he never graduated - it was "not his year". Aka part of his last words.The erica and lucas scenes of being attacked- honestly deserves it's own post. Also the romance is still low key one of the worst cringe parts of an otherwise great show.

I'm sorry m*leven is still so sus to me. Like besides all their relationship issues, it's weird s1-s4 parallels m*leven to family members. Like seriously side eyeing the Duffers just for those weird family parallels- if m*leven is romantic endgame. I mean ...nancy called herself "ruth" and el was in "Ruth, nevada" (and that's like 1 of 20 examples). Just to name one of many of those weird family parallels. Like why do that?? And yeah if it's an actual romantic declaration - you'd think they'd kiss like they did in the beginning of s4 . Not even getting into retcons like mike saying meeting Will at age 5 was "the best thing I've ever done". But now he says his "life started" at age 12 when he met el- cause "love at first sight" bs trope. Love at first sight isn't real. And mike literally the day they found her was suggesting ways to send her away so they could go back to looking for Will, and when he thought el lied ( about seeing Will alive) he slapped her hand and yelled "what is wrong with you?"2x then later said lucas was right to not trust her. Ummm... love at first sight? That?! Ok?And wow glad Will could hear mike's confession about how the 1st day he was reported missing- mike's " life began". Mike be like : "I knew Will for 7 years , before I met el . And all my friendships prior to meeting el- meant nothing to me- because my life only began when I fell in love with El instantly and rushed into a relationship after 1 week of knowing her (and when we finally Date- we just fight for 2 seasons straight). True love. "

Honestly they parallel robin/vickie/her bf to will/mike/El - which is also sus. Given how (supposedly straight) Vickie and her bf breakup- and Vickie seems into Robin at the end of s4.

But regardless I'm so sick of just getting "crumbs" whether byler is a queer bait or s5 makes byler canon. I'm just tired- especially after how the socials /cast and crew constantly pumped up byler during pride month- before part 2.

Not to mention the fact we have to just see Will lie to mike to help m*leven. Even though he hates lying to mike. Like no that was Will's painting -el thought it was for a crush of Will's (she didn't commission it for Mike at all)! He was just trying to be a good friend and brother by trying to fix m*leven (and lying to mike to fix m*leven's failing romantic relationship).like think about it- mike literally thinks that d&d painting /"heart" metaphor was El's creative idea and something el made as a gift for him . When it was all Will!!! That "heart" line Will says to mike is used again later by Will- to encourage mike to confess he loves El. Will literally uses his own romantic words for mike- to encourage mike to confess to el instead. Gross. If m*leven is endgame- could they do it in a less awful way to Will? Not to mention mike finally says he loves el-partially because he's moved by Will's painting (he thinks is from el). Which is also messy for m*leven endgame. All those words in the car to mike were Will's confession (he literally just replaced his pronouns for "El" and "she/her" ). Even jonathan saw it that way. Will to mike: " you're guiding- inspiring . That's what you do. you're the heart, without the heart (i'd) fall apart. These past few months (i've) been lost without you.(cough mike said the "lost " line to Will first) .When you're different from other people ... when you're different ... sometimes you feel like a mistake. But you make (me) feel like (I'm) not a mistake at all. And that gives (me ) courage to fight on. If (I) seemed like (I) was pushing you away. It's because (I'm)scared of losing you. "

And the fact we're just left with Will sulking in the corner - and being a trope of "sad gay character in love with his (supposedly straight) best friend". And have Will low key fix that the dysfunction het couple - who have trivial convoluted drama/dysfunction every season they date. But never actually resolve any of their fundamental issues - lying, spying, neglecting all their friends for eachother ,etc. Because you know the trope: gays always have to step aside and sacrifice the romantic love they have for a friend -so that same friend can instead live " happily ever after" (in a het relationship). Even if that het couple is dysfunctional and poorly written. I'm gay ... and just so tired of this type of stuff , repeated over and over and over again in media. Do writers not realize bad-rep is much worse than no-rep?Like if byler isn't canon these scenes right here are literally just rubbing salt in the wounds of Will and other gay/queer fans who empathize or relate to him.

It's like i've mentioned in the past a lot of straight writers LOVE the 'sad gay - trope' . Alot of those straight writers don't empathize with us as people, they infact "romanticize our pain" and find it "beautiful" . And just find our suffering "dramatic and angsty" decoration to their story- where they can also add bragging points of being "inclusive". They don't actually care about how problematic the queer rep is -and how it negatively affects us.

Even Will said he'd rather "pull the bandaid off" in regards to romance drama between him and mike. But duffers didn't do that- or give any closure for Will. Nah they forgot his bday and did this instead. Heck, no romantic closure for Will or even the whole st*ncy/j*ncy drama. Which is a whole other can of worms in itself (i'm saying this as someone who doesnt ship either st*ncy or j*ncy). Regardless of what could happen in s5. I'm just tired of how poorly some (frankly most) of the romance is handled in the series.

If m*leven is endgame they did it in the most reductive , stereotypical, predictable, and also hurtful way possible to lgbt fans. Without actually fixing m*leven's real issues to make us like them together as a couple. Heck (not only do they have problems that were never fixed ) : like lying /spying/ mike still hero worshiping her - which were never fixed ). They're now just a cliche ("love at first sight couple", who ever since they started dating have artifical convoluted drama every season ). Literally s3 and 4 are the same: m*leven neglect their friends for eachother, lie to eachother , fight with eachother, then say they're in love. There's no change , no progess they just repeat the same problematic pattern. Forget mike saying in part 1 this was a fight the pairing "couldn't get past" or mike nodding to Will saying maybe he's afraid to tell el the truth, cause she may not like it. Ummm - part 2 doesn't connect to that, why would El not like his confession? Not to mention mike only can say he loves her in s3 and 4 when her life is in danger (and in s4 when Will encourages him to keep talking)- not sus at all. The whole season Mike shares dialogue with brenner - even in the love confession (ick). And lol after his love confession- el won't talk to him. (purposeful hinting it won't work out ? or just horrible writing for an awful romantic pair who always have had poor communication?) Straight-mike narratively just makes mike a sh*t friend too- going from a great , considerate,and observant friend in s1 and 2. But , then the second he starts dating El in s3 :he neglects his friends for 2 straight seasons in favor of El (all while being a not good bf to her for 95% of their relationship). And also he literally said his life didn't begin until el (this is literally insulting to all his prior friendships which were established long before meeting el ). Straight-mike isn' t the "heart" of any party as Will claimed - not anymore (he straight up says his other relationships don't matter. Will, lucas, dustin- pfft his" life didn't even begin " until el ). Some of the worst days of Will's life - pfft mike, his bff, doesn't care about Will's tra*ma cause it gave him the chance to meet el. And he'll say it -right infront of Will. Iike mike could have said he's grateful to have met el in so many ways - but bringing up the day itself like that. Ugh. But in the end, both seasons his friends are the ones who have to help mike retain this supposed perfect romance. And let's get real they have no chemistry as a pairing- Mike just doesn't seem genuine in his love . And the confession incorporating mike's desire to be "needed" and having mike call her a "hero" and "superman'.yeah- hero worship from mike and dependence from el (winning romantic combo) . Also yeah , weird how El's "hero' is her dad and mike's is El. Given again all the family parallels. Heck terry(mom)/ mike saying "I love you" to El- is what gets her to defeat vecna.

And If byler is endgame in s5 - the duffers are overestimating how much bs they can put queer fans through- before they give us a happy ending . Like wow thanks for ending the season with mike & Will standing together, in between 2 other romantic pairings. After you made Will suffer through a bunch of problematic queer tropes (that you may subvert in s5- in like... 4 years). I'd say that framing at the end is a hint of byler- but they did the same framing in s3 only to do this in s4. So they may just leave those hints in the show to string and queer bait us longer. But honestly even if byler is canon in s5 (i actually think it has a decent chance of being endgame ): the Duffers sabotaged themselves. Becuse now bylers are less engaged in wanting to watch s5, and in s5 you'd piss off the m*levens . Cause mike would have lied to El and led her on (or just said it cause he didn't want her to d*e/ he meant he loved her in a non romantic way). But also when mike did his romance speech to El- he said the most messed up stuff right infront of Will ( aka the day Will was k*dnapped is when mike finally felt alive- cause he met El) . THAT'S SO MESSED UP. most bylers probably won't even bother to watch s5 - assuming the worst again too.

So my point is - regardless of whether mike is straight, gay or bi (they wrote themselves into a corner where mike looks bad either way). And his relationships with both of them are messy af.

#byler #will byers #mike wheeler #max mayfield #eddie munson

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luckybyler · 1 year

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Many ST fans, including us Bylers, need to tell the difference between uncommon and unrealistic.

There have always been comments by anti-Bylers saying that a gay teen's feelings being requited would be unrealistic for a small town in the 80s, therefore Byler would be too. Generally, the answer I've seen is that it may be unrealistic, but it's a better /more beautiful/more fulfilling ending and we have monsters and kids with superpowers anyway.

Requited young gay love has never been unrealistic - not now, not in the 80's, not in the 1080s, or ever. What it was is less common, which is a completely different thing. Let me give you an example:

Max ended season 4 in a coma, technically braindead. This are the possible outcomes:

Common/expected: she dies or is lifelong profoundly disabled.

Less common: she wakes up and is left with a permanent, but manageable disability (or several) and can lead an independent life.

Uncommon: she wakes up with disabilities but recovers completely or in great part with therapy and discipline.

Unrealistic: she wakes up as if nothing had ever happened.

Unreal/fantastic: she wakes up with laser vision and the ability to fly.

While the less common and uncommon options aren't as frequent, they can and do happen, and are in accordance with the reality of the world, unlike the unrealistic and fantastic options. The same thing happens when we talk about a gay kid's love in the 80s:

Common: Young gay love is unrequited.

Less common: Young gay love is requited, although they don't say anything to each other.

Uncommon: Young gay love is requited and communicated, and a relationship blossoms.

Unrealistic: One boy asks the other out in public and they become Prom Kings.

Unreal/fantastic: One boy takes the other on his spaceship to their home planet.

This applies to our boys, and this is when talking about a completely spherical Byler in a vacuum. Once you add context (and I mean context, not Byler proof specifically), the odds go up: Will and Mike became friends not because their parents were friends, or the teacher grouped them for an activity, or one of them joined a group in which the other was; but because Mike, by himself, looked at Will specifically and something about him drew Mike in. Let's keep in mind that the show tells us that Will is visibly gay or delicate/sensitive, so Mike most likely felt that vibe and either it didn't bother him, or he actively liked it.

There were gay teenagers who got together. Even in the 80s, even in small conservative towns. In secret of course, but it did happen. Even in Rebel Robin she tells us about two boys who seemed to be dancing together during prom in a classroom, so its canonically a thing that can happen in Hawkins, Indiana.

#byler #stranger things #anti melvin

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bedtimestoriesforbrokengirls · 1 year

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The Daily Dad

Things you might want to know, for May 16, 2023:

Frank Miller Wolverine variant cover ignites Twitter debate — It’s ugly. It’s not interesting. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t a legitimate, thoughtful piece of art. That’s just where Miller’s head is at these days, for better or worse.

Invisible creatures are having sex on your face — while you sleep — Your pores are literally cum dumpsters. Let that sink in.

New study puts a definitive age on Saturn's rings: They're really young — Some day they’re going to run away from home, and then Saturn will really be sorry.

The Immortal Myths About Online Abuse — Dash has always had lots of very confident opinions about matters he considered settled as soon as he developed an opinion. Which means he tends to be half-right about things, as he is here.

7 men, 1 depraved sex network: Unravelling the full story behind the wife-sharing drug rapes

Justified returns July 18 but WHAT is going on with Raylan’s hat? — A studded hatband is Raylan Givens’ idea of exploring an alternative lifestyle.

Twitter Fights Over Who’s Hotter: Young Al Pacino Or Young Robert DeNiro — Al’s worst looks were/are worse than Bobby’s, but when sufficiently cleaned up and styled, Pacino is better looking.

Artist creates everyday objects out of Lego

San Francisco women named Thor Kill sentenced to prison for possession of bomb-making supplies, ammunition — And now she just has to hope she doesn’t run into Zeus Rape at the correctional facility.

The Fanfic Sex Trope That Caught a Plundering AI Red-Handed

Archer’s superspy adventures are finally coming to an end after the series’ 14th season — I’m slightly sad, but mostly content. I more or less gave up on the show during Sterling’s coma, and while I’ve tried fighting my way through, it’s a struggle… they’ve never recovered the weird sincerity that once underpinned all the snark the show serves up.

Why are so many young Americans adopting fake British accents?

Double-screen ‘free’ TV will show you ads, even when not in use — Okay, so, the ONE thing I like here: the second screen keeping their ads off the content. (A handy way of avoiding lawsuits from content publishers.) Everything else about this whole idea is a surveillance nightmare that —sadly— might actually be successful.

MTV News Confidential: Kurt Loder, Tabitha Soren, and John Norris Tell All

Dedicated player builds Gundam in Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom — I remember having the kind of time and focus it would take to come up with this shit. Barely. Wow.

Kanye West files trademark for socks that are also shoes — Excuse me, Ye? I believe Mr. Bundy has a concept you’re going to love…

'Avatar: The Way of Water' is coming to Disney+ and Max on June 7th — Does this mean I have to re-watch the first one? Should I take it as an omen that I really don’t want to re-watch the first one?

Woman busted with 1,500 grams of cocaine hiding behind her fake pregnancy belly

Why Gen Z loves Seinfeld — …when did this happen? I approve, but given Millennial indifference to the show, I’m surprised.

Cash App founder Bob Lee was part of an underground party scene of sex and drugs called 'The Lifestyle' prior to his death, report says — This just keeps getting wilder and wilder.

#news

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marikn · 2 years

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Let’s talk about Byler, shall we?

More specifically, I want to talk about my predictions for s5 based on various tidbits I’ve heard about the duffers and their inspiration, and trends in past media.

This is going to be pretty long but just stick with me, I promise it gets good.

(EDIT) This theory is not a happy one and has been upsetting people.

I talk exclusively about my doubts here. If anyone would like to see it, I can make another post about my byler hopes :)

Anyway can someone tell me how to insert a cut

1. Destiel syndrome

Byler reminds me an awful lot of destiel. I never finished watching supernatural, but I definitely heard about what they did in the finale, and I think it’s likely that byler would end up in a similar situation.

I fear making them obviously canon would result in a lot of controversy. I think it’s much more likely that we’d get a scene similar to destiel’s confession, where the “I love you” can be interpreted a couple different ways.

Since Mike and Will often speak in a sort of code, I’m willing to bet Will’s confession will be encoded, and therefore entirely implicit (this ensures that the general audience can interpret it as Will talking about platonic or familial love instead), and Mike will be left stunned/speechless/unable to respond in some way before Will leaves, most likely to go straight to his death (like Castiel).

2. I don’t think we are going to get a byler kiss

As much as I would love to see it, I genuinely don’t think it will happen. There are a couple reasons as to why I think this, mainly having to do with the “bury your gays” trope.

I think Stranger Things has too wide of an audience for a kiss to happen, and I think the duffers know this. Typically, explicit romantic interactions in same-sex couples are avoided (unless the intended audience is the lgbtq community) because straight people don’t want to see that. No matter how beautifully a love story might be written, there are people who will claim they forced it for representation, people who will say it ruined the show, and people who will outright cover their eyes in disgust (I’m not exaggerating— I live with people who do this). It’s too much of a risk, especially with how popular the show has gotten.

All in all, there are too many “normal” people who watch st, and an on-screen queer kiss between two main characters would prompt too much backlash.

3. Star Wars parallels

The duffers have said they’ll be drawing inspiration for season 5 from Return of the Jedi. As it is, we can already see some parallels between the Star Wars characters and the stranger things characters (max in a coma/han in carbonite, el lifting nina/Luke lifting the ship). Assuming that Henry/Vecna/001 is meant to be Palpatine, I see two logical options for Darth Vader’s parallel.

One: Eddie. This ties into the kas!eddie theory a bit, but Vader’s origin began with Anakin’s defeat. Obi-wan battled Anakin and left him for dead on a remote planet, and he would have died if not for Palpatine and the suit he’d made for him. Palpatine remade Anakin entirely and gave him an all new identity— which could be a possibility between 001 and Eddie, now that we know the numbers have the ability to revive (el reviving max’s body in the finale).

Two: Will. This is the more likely option. In Star Wars, Palpatine poisoned Anakin’s mind by using his own fear against him (Anakin was seeing visions of his wife Padme dying, and was desperately searching for a way to save her). Palpatine took Anakin’s weakness and applied the necessary manipulation to mold him into a tool.

Much like Anakin’s “death” at the hands of Obi-wan, we can assume that Will Byers “died” in 1983 when he disappeared. When he came back, his mind was compromised, which allowed the mindflayer to take control of him. Much like Anakin, Will would (in theory) be willing to do whatever it takes to keep his loved ones safe, which will lead to his downfall (villain arc not included).

If they were to parallel Will and Vader like this, they would turn Will onto the path of the tragic hero archetype. At the end of Return of the Jedi, Darth Vader turns on Palpatine in order to save Luke, sacrificing his own life in the process. Remember when I said Will would confess to Mike right before walking into his doom?

4. Every ending has a beginning

Will Byers is going to die.

This show started with Will, and it will end with Will. Most likely, he will sacrifice himself for the sake of his friends and family. Once he does, I can see us getting a shot of Mike holding his body (probably similar to Richie and Eddie from IT) and only then will we get a glimpse of how Mike really feels about Will.

Will’s sacrifice will either destroy Vecna, or give El the upper hand so that she can kill him herself (this is, after all, her unfinished business). However it plays out, I have low expectations of Will actually making it through. The duffers seems to have been foreshadowing this, too.

Will has never had a happy childhood. Even before the Upside Down, he had Lonnie and the bullies weighing him down. He’s been doomed since the start; all throughout the show, he can’t seem to catch a break. He alone is linked to the upside down— to Vecna. We even see the two of them heavily paralleled through Vecna’s backstory (being “sensitive” children, not getting along with other kids, drawing the mindflayer). He’s been put through so much, time and time again, and it all reads very similarly to Harry Potter’s “pig for slaughter” storyline.

Like Harry with Voldemort, Will was marked and linked to Vencna when he was taken into the upside down. From then on, he’s been able to feel Vecna’s presence in his mind and in Hawkins whenever he’s active, the same way Harry can feel Voldemort’s presence through his scar. They have a permanent connection, whether they like it or not, and the only way to break it is for one of them to die. Obviously, since this is the final season, they will find a way to defeat Vecna. I will not be surprised, however, if that way requires Will to die somehow.

Only this time, there won’t be a way for him to come back.

(insert genius and well-crafted conclusion here) Basically: it’s not looking good for byler.

#mike wheeler #will byers #save Will Byers #stranger things 4 #stranger things #stranger things spoiler #stranger things theory #stranger things 5 #stranger things 5 theory #st vecna

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zombiesrhere · 2 years

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i need to rant.

i feel so sick when i see people mourning eddie death. i understand that his death was sad and extremely not needed whatsoever but people are crying over his death that meant so little.

i get it, eddie is a comfort character to a lot of viewers but it’s so irritating to see someone sit and cry over his death when lucas and max had a much sadder story.

as a black person it did NOT sit with me right about the way they handled lucas’s and max’s situation. max gets vecna’d right in front of lucas’s eyes, and he just watches with no way to help her because of jason. OH AND JASON. him and lucas were literally fighting for whatever reason meaning that lucas got all types of beat up trying to save max.

AND OMG ERICA. she was getting beat up in the front of the house FOR WHAT!? and by the time she gets set free she’s too late and max has already been vecna’d. I JUST OMG.

fast forward to the hospital, and max is laying there on her death bed, in a fukin coma, and lucas is sitting there with a black eye, not knowing if she’ll wake up. erica is sitting in a chair just watching it all, knowing she couldn’t do anything before vecna got max.

i just felt so sick to my stomach. and yes eleven and them come to the hospital and hug and talk, but then just in up leaving them in the hospital! and now i’m worried for them, not knowing if they’ll make it, because vecna’s right around the corner.

AND DONT GET ME STARTED ON WILL. i’ve seen a lot more people talk about wills story which is great because OMG. his boarderline confession to mike was then used to build up mikes and els relationship. like what the hell. and they just kinda gloss over it at the end. AND I EXPECTED A COME OUT SCENE BUT OFC I WAS DISAPPOINTED, ITS THE DUFFERS😭

what makes eddie different than any other white character on the show? oh, that’s he’s a ‘freak’ or a weirdo? one haircut and a style change, and he’s the same guy as steve. it just makes me so mad to see people cry over his death when he was meant to get killed off!! that’s what shows do, they introduce characters so they can kill them off. not saying you can’t get connected to a character, but when there’s bigger and worse things happening in the show it’s just annoying to see people cry over a character that was destined for a kill off in the first place.

when there’s other characters getting treated or have been treated worse than eddie, to me it’s just lowkey insensitive when people disregard those characters to cry over a dude in a leather jacket.

i expected to see a lot more uproar about lumax, erica, will, and maybe even hopper BUT NOOOO.

i love eddie but i wouldn’t go crying about him on anywhere because it was so expected. and i hate that they use the fact that he died to point out bad writing. LIKE THERES WAY BIGGER AND BADDER WRITING HAPPENING IN THE SHOW!!

like no duh, they’re bad writers…the actors basically had to rewrite the script this season because it was so bad. mike wheeler is the epitome of bad writing in the show.

i just wish people would open their eyes and see that there’s bigger problems then a dude in a leather jacket dying.

#eddie munson was expected to die #lucas has gotten so much shit for what?#stranger things #imagines #will lucas and dustin has done nothing throughout the whole series yet get the worst trama #natalia dyer #lucas sinclair is awesome and you guys haven’t realized it yet #lumax #erica sinclair #lucas sinclair

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munsons-maiden · 2 years

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I’m not sure if this is an unpopular opinion, but in terms of Max, I feel that the scenario of her being Vecna’d and breaking free in “Dear Billy” should have instead been played out later in the finale, so there’s a longer build-up and more tension. The over-looming threat of Vecna taking her for the whole season and then in the final episode it finally happens and then we get the Running Up That Hill scene. Max has her epic finale hero moment. Obviously certain aspects of the episode/season would have to be reworked but you get it.

OR on the complete opposite side of the spectrum, have everything play out the same way but let her stay dead in the finale.

This weird in-between thing they did is just odd. It’s obvious she’s most likely going to recover to a certain extent, but it almost feels forced?? Like they were planning on killing her off for good and then decided to backtrack and change it. There’s no point in the mystery of if she’ll wake up because it would be incredibly bad writing to kill off a character, resurrect them and put them in a coma only to kill them off again.

And it’s obvious that her letters will come into play at some point, and I feel that whatever is written in them would have a much bigger impact if she was actually dead. As much as I love Max and adore Sadie, I just feel like it was a weird choice?? Her death would have so much weight in the series. A character in her third season is tragically taken from the group. They’ve lost one of their own. Not that Eddie wasn’t a part of the group but you know what I mean.

And I say all of this as someone who wants Eddie to be resurrected from the dead 💀 though I’m probably biased bc I think a character being resurrected as a vessel/puppet for Vecna is a cooler concept than being in a coma.

I say none of this in a negative tone though it may seem like it, this is just me pondering how the events of the season played out.

I absolutely agree with you.

You all know I'd throw every other character under the bus to save Eddie, but even objectively speaking killing off Max, and killing her for good, would have been much better storytelling than killing Eddie.

The Duffers said that the initial plan was to kill Max so you're absolutely right - and I feel the only way they could make the coma storyline make sense would be if Max met Vecna's other victims, including Billy, in the void. I feel like closure with Billy, one last talk or moment together, could help her heal and have the happy ending she wouldn't have been able to get in season 4. Maybe with them working together to weaken Vecna from within and then Billy, Chrissy, Patrick and Fred helping Max to escape because she's the one who still has a chance.

Everything else would be pointless, as you said, because we already know if she's in a coma, they can't kill her so she'll wake up and recover.

I feel that Max dying like initially planned, but being resurrected by El, is actually linked to Eddie's return, though. We already have When It's Cold I'd Like To Die playing during Max and Eddie's parallel deaths, the very same song that played when Will died in the UD and was "resurrected" by Hopper doing CPR in season 1 and the fact that this song, which hasn't been used since but was used for this scene - with Max already coming back from the dead - is the first hint that Eddie will return, as well. And by showing us that El is able to resurrect people, they showed us that Vecna is able to resurrect people, as well - preparing Eddie's resurrection.

They wrote the first 5 episodes, then filmed and started writing the final ones. I can imagine that they fell in love with Eddie during filming and decided they'd let him and Max come back from the dead. It would fit the fact that Joe didn't know Eddie's fate when they started filming because the final episodes weren't written yet, and it would match the decision to let Max die but have her resurrected by El.

I agree with everything you said, and to me, this is the only explanation that would make sense.

#kiki answers #eddie munson #stranger things 4 #stranger things #stranger things 5 #stranger things season 5 #max mayfield #billy hargrove

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wonderfulworldofmichaelford · 2 years

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Psycho Analysis: Vecna

(WARNING! This analysis contains SPOILERS!)

I love Stranger Things, but there is one serious problem that has hampered it in its second and third seasons: Its lack of a compelling antagonist. The Mind Flayer spent an entire season not interacting with anyone and making its looming threat seem distant and impersonal, Max’s brother is just a minor antagonist in a Stephen King novel cranked up to 11, the Russians are inevitably the worst part of the show whenever they exist, and the shadowy government agencies are just so played out and boring at this point. If the show was going to continue with some epic storyline about world-ending cosmic horrors, they needed to put a face to the nightmares.

Well, they sure did put a face to it, and what a face our boy Vecna has.

This fleshy monstrosity is not just the main antagonist of this season, but of the entire series, as a bunch of revelations show the sheer scope of the evil this Freddy Krueger expy has brought into the world. And most important of all is, unlike every single other villain this show has tried to throw at us, Vecna actually has a personality.

Motivation/Goals: Vecna, to put it simply, fucking despises humanity. In his life as Henry Creel, he came to utterly resent humankind and view them as a disease, and boy did he ever decide he was gonna be the cure. It’s a pretty simple motivation to be sure, but it works for a wide variety of reasons, the most important being that Vecna never tries to hide behind any sort of tragic backstory and instead consistently asserts that he is simply above humanity and that it deserves to be eradicated. He’s just a legitimately horrible, evil monster.

Performance: You might remember Jamie Campbell Bower for the numerous times he has played a twink in popular fantasy films like The Twilight Saga and The Deathly Hallows, where he played the evil asshole Volturi Caius and the young Grindelwald, respectively. But evil as those roles may be, they were still simply bit parts compared to the meatier role of Vecna; thankfully, he was quite prepared to take on the role of a murderous sociopath with a hatred of humanity thanks to starring alongside Johnny Depp in Sweeney Todd, which surely gave him plenty of experience with that subject matter. Bower absolutely knocks it out of the park, making Vecna into a horror icon for the ages. When he’s playing the role of the seemingly friendly orderly, his interactions with Eleven are creepy and uncomfortable, almost like he’s grooming her; as Vecna he’s no better, as he preys upon the trauma and insecurities of his victims and torments them to the point where they’re vulnerable for his psychic annihilation. Bower’s performance is astounding, but I guess that’s really what one should expect from Twilight alumni at this point.

Final Fate: Well, by the end of season 4 he’s pretty much completely victorious. He’s alive but weakened slightly, sure, but he devastated Hawkins, put Max into a coma, and got Eddie killed. Oh, yeah, and now the Upside Down is in the real world. Obviously they’re going to stop him in the final season, but the question is how?

Best Scene: Vecna gets a lot of good scenes throughout the season. Most notably, he gets to share the best scene in the entire show with Max as she flees him to the sound of Kate Bush.

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The initial reveal when he stalks Chrissy through her mind is atmospheric and incredible too, and it just reeks of the ceiling kill from A Nightmare on Elm Street. Just a beautiful introduction to the character.

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And personally, I love the scene where he’s giving his nihilistic motive rant to Eleven in the Hawkins lab right before she wastes him. Dude is laying out his hatred of humanity and giving an insane evil overlord rant to an actual child who probably doesn’t even know what half the words he’s saying mean. It’s truly a testament to Bower’s skill that he can pull such an absurd moment off.

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Best Quote: No, really, that rant he does is so fucking good. Look:

“Why do you cry for them, Eleven? After everything they did to you, hm? You think you need them, but you don't. You don't. Oh, but I know you're just scared. I was scared once, too. I know what it's like to be different. To be alone, in this world. Like you, I didn't fit in with the other children. Something was wrong with me, all the teachers and the doctors said I was... broken. They said. My parents thought a change of scenery, a fresh start in Hawkins, might just cure me. It was absurd. As if the world would be any different here! But then, to my surprise, our new home provided a discovery. And a newfound sense of purpose. I found a nest of Black Widows living inside a vent. Most people fear spiders... They detest them. And yet, I found them endlessly fascinating. More than that, I found a great comfort in them — a kinship. Like me, they are solitary creatures and deeply misunderstood. They are gods of our world. The most important of all predators. They immobilized and feed on the weak, bringing balance and order to an unstable ecosystem. But the human world was disrupting this harmony. You see, humans are a unique type of pest, multiplying and poisoning our world, all while enforcing a structure of their own. A deeply unnatural structure. Where others saw order, I saw a straight jacket. A cruel, oppressive world dictated by made up rules — seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, years, decades, each life a faded, lesser copy of the one before! Wake up, eat, work, sleep, reproduce and die! Everyone is just waiting. Waiting for it all to be over, all while performing in a silly, terrible play, day after day. I could not do that. I could not close off my mind and join in the madness, I could not pretend. Then I realized... I didn't have to. I could make my own rules. I could restore balance to a broken world — a predator, but for good.”

He is literally telling all this to a terrified child who just walked through a hallway of corpses and is likely still processing that. He is literally going off on a grade schooler. This is so funny but Bower is just so genuinely disturbing and unhinged here that it works.

Final Thoughts & Score: If there was ever a villain that proves even a simple, borderline cliché concept can work wonders with a fresh coat of paint, it would be Vecna.

Let’s be real here: Vecna ain’t that deep. He’s a misanthrope with a god complex who spouts off the most generic evil villain lines you can imagine and has a set of powers that seems like it came from the Supernatural Serial Killer Leftovers sale. There have been dozens of villains just like this guy throughout the history of film and television. But the thing is, despite (or even because of) this, Vecna still manages to be cool, fun, and memorable as a villain.

Most of the credit has to be given to Bower’s performance and the fantastic costume work. Being a mix of practical effects with a bit of CGI added to clean up and add a few tentacles here and there, Vecna looks absolutely fantastic, and Bower delivers each and every line with the sort of gusto one expects from a great villain actor. It is so important to remember that no matter how cliché dialogue is, a great actor can still sell it to you as if it were the finest Shakesperean writing you’ve ever heard, and right here Bower manages to show that he is indeed a great actor. Then there’s just the presentation, from how he kills, his backstory, his “IT WAS ME, BARRY!” moment where he reveals every problem in the show was always him, that goddamn grandfather clock… You’ll never hear a clock chime the same way again after seeing him. All the pieces just come together.

And then, finally, you have to remember what kind of show this is. Stranger Things is a big amalgamation of 80s tropes, so of course its big bad would fit that bill. It didn’t work last season when they tried to combine the Red Scare villains of 80s war films with The Terminator, but taking Freddy Krueger and ramping up the body horror while making him even more cold, cruel, and nihilistic than good ol’ Fred ever was in his first outing? It just works.

Vecna really is everything this show needed to thrive, and he honestly makes some of the lamer early villains better simply due to the fact they were merely his puppets. It helps, too, that when going back you can find hints that he truly was there all along; from the distorted clock sounds worked into music relating to the Upside Down going all the way back to season one to the implication via the use of psychic powers to open a door that it was him who kidnapped Will and set off the series, Vecna’s reach is incredible. Again, he’s not the deepest or most complex villain to ever be created, but he has something the other villains before him didn’t have: A Personality. And the big reveal that all those villains were nothing more than pawns, mere extensions of his will? Well, it makes them a lot more palatable.

Vecna is the villain we deserved all along, and probably one of my personal favorite villains. I’m a sucker for 80s slasher villains (Freddy and Jason my beloveds) and Vecna would fit right in with the freakish monstrosities of the era. I’m gonna give him a 9/10; I’m not giving him a perfect score, because there is a chance they could drop the ball with him in the final season, but I have faith Vecna is gonna come out as one of TV’s most spectacular villains.

#Psycho Analysis #Vecna #Stranger Things #jamie campbell bower

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cotcpeters · 2 years

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Okay BITCHES! IVE FIGURED IT OUT! There was a thread earlier about how they had to kill Eddie at the end of stranger things because there was no way to convince people of his innocence but I’ve figured out how they could have done it and it is now my very own head cannon and I will not be taking criticism at this time. Thank you.

1. Eddie of course gets saved from the upside down because our boi didn’t deserve to die like he did because that’s stupid as hell. I’m thinking because of his injuries he is in a coma maybe the same as Max but definitely unable to defend himself.

2. During the investigation it’s discovered that Eddie was at the trailer park during the time Max gets attacked at the old house. This means that if these deaths are related that Eddie at least can’t be responsible for the last one. So now the argument is how does Eddie get let off for the three other murders.

3. The three other murders are considered “ritualistic” in their method but we know from the show that they are similar to the Creel murders from the 1950s. So there is a precedence that these are not ritual but a copy of the other murders. So it makes sense that they would be looking for someone with connections to the Creel murders in the 50s. Which other than Wayne Munson knowing the story of the murders there is not connection between Eddie and Creel.

3. So then it makes an argument who do they think committed the murders. Who has a connection. Who has a motive or mind to do something like this. This is when Dr. Owens government people come into play.

4. Dr. Owens people could easily create a fake persona of a person who was admitted into the same mental asylum as Victor Creel and heard the details of the murders from him. Then it can be made that this person escaped the asylum. From the show we were able to see Robin and Nancy get in and run out of the asylum so it goes to show that there could be other security breaches on their books that would lead to arguing someone could escape. Also the management at the asylum seems shady as hell so there is definitely some hidden skeletons that could be used as leverage.

5. So now with a different suspect with motive and means it helps get Eddie off the hook for the murders. The most they could charge him for was leaving the scene but that can be fixed by Eddie believing he was being pursued by the murderer for being a witness to Crissy’s death.

6. So the only thing they need now is a body. Which from the first season we know they can make when they made that fake body for Will when he went missing. The earthquake is also sufficient cover to explain the death of this made up suspect.

Extras:

Jason’s death gets explained as him trying to stop the murderer from killing Max. He gets a hero’s burial that he doesn’t deserve but that takes some of the focus off of Eddie because the leader of the witch burning crowd is gone.

Lucas and Dustin get called in as witnesses to prove that Eddie was not in the area when Max is attacked.

Eddie wakes up from his coma completely acquitted for the crimes and is fine to live the rest of his heavy metal life happy and healthy coparenting Dustin with Steve and spending time with his uncle. Corroded Coffin gets big due to being associated with the murders.

It’s the ending we all deserve.

I mean look at this cute little bean.

#eddie munson #stranger things #headcanon #dustin stranger things #eddie stranger things #dustin henderson #stranger things 4

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lokigoddess · 2 years

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After having time to reflect on what happened this season, I decided to share my thoughts on Stranger Things 4 *Spoilers*

The darker tone and Nightmare on Elm Street references were amazing, and went well with the series. The actors are getting better and better at playing their parts, and they have excellent chemistry together. I wish I had seen more of the California crew, and I didn’t like that they were separated from the rest of the group. Also, the Russia subplot was a little boring. As for the soundtrack, the songs used were spectacular, especially (no surprise here) Running Up the Hill, Separate Ways, and Master of Puppets. The music from season 4 was the best of the entire series and is among the best in television history.

Now on to the star of the season... Eddie Munson

Even though he only appeared in one season, Eddie was fantastic in it, and his role was so endearing that he has become one of the most loved characters and, although I've adored Will Byers from season 1 episode 1, Eddie managed to beat him as my favourite character. Another thing I loved was his interaction with Dustin; in my opinion, it was superior to that of Dustin and Steve. I believe their bond was more one of friendship and connection than with Dustin and our favorite babysitter. And considering how much I adore Dustin and Steve, that's saying a lot. And the scene when he is playing Metallica!? It is one of the best scenes of all time and one that I will always remember. He put on a hell of a show.

Now let me talk about the Duffer brothers' famous cowardice. They simply don't have the guts to kill a main character. Hopper was supposed to have died in that explosion and survived, and now Max. She has been put into a coma because, somehow, she will “come back to life" in the final season. We all anticipated Eddie would be the new Bob and Alexei since killing off a new character is their speciality. Plus, they should speak less during interviews because they promised there would be bloodshed, a body count, and the deaths of main characters at the end of this season, but none of those things happened (unless they considered Eddie to be a main character, which I do not think so, because Jason and the rest who died clearly were not).

Regarding Eddie's death, I thought it was unnecessary and pointless. I think, even if he had to die, it could have been different (like saving Nancy, Steve and Robin). I don’t believe death was the only option for him, and that is why I thought the writing was somewhat lazy. As Dustin explained to Mr. Munson on one of the most beautiful and heartbreaking scenes of the series (I sobbed so hard), Eddie died to save a city that hated him and many still believed he was a murderer and the reincarnation of the devil. It was not fair because he had such a beautiful soul. His death was in vain. Not to mention that only Dustin and Mr. Munson were sad about his death. Anyway, they did Eddie dirty. And what makes me sad is that he had so much potential. It would be perfect to have him in season 5, and Joseph would undoubtedly deliver another show. And to be quite honest, Stranger Things has never had as much hype as it had this season, and Eddie Munson was the main reason for that. Metalheads from all over the world felt incredibly well represented once in their lives, people started listening to rock music because of him, everyone on TikTok, Twitter, and Instagram was (and still is) talking about him, commenting on the various theories about what music he would play, people who had never seen the series started watching because of him. In episode 9, his name had more than 500k mentions on Twitter. Max's "death" didn't even come close (I wonder why). Anyway, Eddie was the star in season 4, and my lovely metalhead will always be missed because he was flawless from beginning to end. Thank you, Joseph!

#stranger things #eddie munson #joseph quinn #my lovely metalhead #the duffer brothers #duffer brothers #cowards #tv shows #series #queue

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androgynousblackbox · 2 years

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The death of Eddie was fucking bullshit, an essay.

His death was a result of his noble sacrifice and it's supposed to be end of his character arch, from someone that "always run" to someone that stayed and fought to gain others more time.

Things is, the moment he chose to run from was when a sweet girl he just started talking to was suddenly killed in front of his eyes in a way in which he could literally do anything to avoid it even if he knew what was happening, which he didn't. He was there on his trailer in front of a fucking corpse and no way to explain to anyone that didn't do it.

Anyone would have run. Running was literally the only smart thing he could do to avoid prison, something it's very fucking clear would have happened because of the reputation of his and his father, plus the refusal of the police to believe anything they didn't personally saw. If he didn't run the blonde fucker would have found him much sooner and actually kill him.

Running is not for cowards. Sometimes that is the only thing you can do to garantee there will another day. But this show wants to use this pivotal moment to be "oh I am always running... I am a coward... I am no hero", and that is frankly fucking insulting to me as a viewer because it's so obvious they tried his death to mean something, to be about something, but the starting point make it seem like Eddie should feel bad for running away from people who were literally buying guns to kill him after a girl was murdered in front of his eyes.

Like, do you want that to be his final motivation, to be a hero and gain time, great, but don't put that kind of ending when that was the start of the story because those things don't match together.

Better would have been if he was on a situation where he made things actively worse by running away instead of just keeping himself alive. Make it so it was actual cowardice that put him in trouble instead of a supernatural being.

But we couldn't do that because then it could make Eddie unlikeable, but wait, we still want to kill someone, so we will just put this "redemption death" for a character that never really did anything wrong in the first place.

Like this was just so unnecesary, like filling out a quota to try to jerk out some tears at the last second as if we needed that? We already have a little girl we know and came to care about crying about how she is not ready to die, after confessing having suicidal ideation, going into a coma that not even El can bring her from, so why the fuck Eddie had to die?

When it was Barb, alright, makes sense, because we need to show how awful the new situation is. Bob at least gave Joyce an emotional arch. Billy at least tried to do something good after showing how much not good he does. But Eddie? Eddie did nothing and the message of his death gets all fucked up by the own story, simply to have someone to die because Max wasn't going to be, not for long.

It feels cheap and it makes no sense. He could have had something better and he didn't.

#stranger things 4 spoilers #st 4 vol 2

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memes-saved-me · 2 years

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I agree on Steve not knowing Eddie long enough. That is true, but even if I got to know someone for 3 days only and he helped us in the upside down and stuff, hanged with us, I'd still be a tad sad if he died. I understand them not breaking in tears but the complete lack of a reaction as if he never existed is still a bit odd :/

If anyone should be called out for lack of reaction its Mike and Lucas who actually knew Eddie but Mike honestly might not know yet so that'll be left for S5 and Lucas is focused on Max.

Yeah, it would upset you but mourning is weird and the only person who saw Eddie die, knew him properly was Dustin and even before he speaks to Wayne he's not showing outward signs of grief which is normal. Some people break down and cry for weeks, months none stop whereas others have a place and time to let that all out. Some never do.

We've seen Steve "cry" twice in the entire show.

Both times are because of Nancy. First as he's rushing out of the party after having his heart broken and second when he's watching Nancy comfort Jonathan. We don't see what he does after the party but we do for the second time and he sucks it up and goes into Upside Down lets save Will mode.

I see Steve as a guy who doesn't cry in front of people. In these two examples he's stopping himself and getting away from the source of the pain to make sure he doesn't actually burst into tears in from of anyone.

So, that brings us to S4 and its been 2 days since he was fighting off Vecna, Max is in a coma and Eddie is dead. If anything he will probably be worried about Max but he can't spend all his time doing that so he goes to help out as best as he can. I'm sure Eddie's death had some impact, he probably saw his dead body and he almost met the exact same fate with those bats so he would have some sort of internal shit going on but as we've established Steve isn't an outwardly emotional guy except when it comes to Nancy.

I understand questioning the lack of reaction from everyone but Steve. Tbh I'm kind of numb to shitty character reactions since Billy died to save everyone in that room and yet they don't even say his name or realise Max is closed off because of his death. The Duffers aren't the strongest of writers and that whole ending felt like an afterthought to me. We didn't see what they did with Eddie, how they got out or any of the direct aftermath of the gates opening. Hopefully, they show us that in S5 and we get some more Eddie or at least a scene of them finding out what happened.

I may have rambled sorry but yeah its pretty much down to the ending being weirdly disconnected unfortunately

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bugsbenefit · 1 year

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okay i'm back to wondering how they'll approach s5 again. especially if they'll stick to classic final season/book formulas tbh

in most finales you have immediate rising action (which "supposed to pick up right where we left off and action packed" already confirms ST will do as well) but i'm curious how they'll handle potentially killing characters

i think we all expect a main character to die for good in s5. not a fake out death or revival like we already had with Max and what a lot is pointing us at getting in s5. because someone has to die permanently by now. obviously not every show needs to kill characters but ST has too high stakes and has teased MCs dying too often to not follow through at some point. and that could really be anyone as far as we can guess now, Jonathan, Steve. etc. (generally think the kids will be save bc of the core message of the show but we'll see)

but the thing is. in most final installments you kill a main character earlier on as well

-> establish stakes, show that the possibility of a main character finally dying is REAL and THERE and not just an ominous threat that never comes to fruition. you see it both in books and film, killing a main or prominent side character at the beginning of your last installment signals how high the stakes actually are. often times it's a mentor figure dying right at the end of the second to last or right at the beginning to the last book. maybe a childhood friend of the MC. or maybe someone you met throughout the series the audience has grown fond of. if you want to kill a main character with high stakes in the finale you usually establish how big of a threat death actually is by killing a character Before the final battle. if your characters had HIGH amounts of plot armour for too long you need to SHOW that it's gone now and won't help them anymore. otherwise people will go into the final confrontation feeling less worried about the possibility of a beloved character dying which lessens the suspense leading up to it

and ST would really need this as well. because aside from the world seemingly about to fall apart, all our main characters are doing pretty alright (not necessarily from an emotional perspective yk but at least none of them gotten eaten by a Demogorgon yet somehow). Eddie died as the only "main" cast member and he was a side addition teased to die since his first introduction in the same season. he doesn't work for this purpose since he doesn't carry the needed emotional leverage. they could have also used Max dying as this instance but missed out on that opportunity since they didn't want to kill her permanently (for also understandable reasons)

so s5 will start on both an incredibly low and high note. yes the world is ending. but not only did all the main characters survive the battle, they even brought the dead person back in a coma.

so going from that, i wouldn't be surprised if we actually get a death in the first two episodes pre time jump. mind you, i don't think they'd kill a main character immediately without building to it and finishing off their character arc. so people like the teens and kids would probably be save i would assume. however, more side-ish character like Murray or Karen could absolutely serve this purpose

really curious overall if s5 will take this typical approach to building suspense for the series finale or if they'll try a less common method to build that tension and aren't killing anyone until the real finale.

#curious about what you guys think #there's so many routes they could take #to be fair i think we'll see a lot of death at the start of the season regardless with Hawkins being literally split open by gates #if monsters Actually start coming through pre time skip already like the one's Nancy saw in her vision we'll probably get even more death #but i'm SO curious if they'll be bold and actually kill a long running side/supporting character too #stranger things #st5 #st5 predictions #st5 speculation

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strangeswift · 1 year

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I always thought the monologue was there to show El that the kind of love Mike has for her is not the way she wants to be loved, and that their relationship couldn't be saved by him saying "I love you" because they had bigger issues than just him not saying those words. El's whole arc this season is about how she can't be put into a box with the words 'monster' and 'superhero' and yet in Mike's monologue he once again refers to her a superhero, which to me is setting up a conversation where El calls out Mike for loving the superhero that he thinks she is rather than the person that she really is, and she will break up with him because she wants to find out who she is without all of that pressure and those labels.

Two of the most prominent memories used when she revived Max were "there's more to life than stupid boys" and "not Hopper, not Mike, you," and I think that is setting up El's independence era where she realizes that she doesn't need a boyfriend and wants to focus on herself, especially now that she has to deal with Hopper's return, the fallout of Max's coma, and the impending fight against Vecna. She'll realize that she cares about Mike deeply but being with him romantically is not what she needs for herself.

Also this is just me and I think most Bylers will heavily disagree but I think they're going with Bi!Mike (who is aware on some level that there's something different about Will but doesn't know at all that he loves Will yet) and doing the misattribution of feelings trope where Mike was only able to say "I love you" because he fell in love with Will's feelings in the van and believed he loved El because of how those words made him feel. He says "I love you for exactly who you are" to her but it's clear that this is going to fall apart soon because the "exactly who you are" that Mike believes in is not El - she never said any of those things that made him feel so loved and so valued. That person was Will.

I think that once Mike finds out about the painting and Milkvan breaks up due to Mike realizing that El didn't say any of that "you're the heart" stuff, Will is going to confess to him as an explanation for why he lied and Mike will 'platonically accept him' at first and they will be closer than ever. Then after the timeskip, as they work together as a team to defeat Vecna, we're going to see Mike realizing that he has feelings for Will too and they'll probably kiss towards the very end of the show. Mike probably won't get an explicit bi label but they'll show him being in a happy relationship with Will.

I don't see a convincing way to do Gay!Mike at all after the monologue but I think implied Bi!Mike - where he thought he loved El due to the van speech but eventually finds out that those were Will's words, which jump-starts their romance arc - is very possible.

(The only line that truly bugs me in the monologue is the 'my life started the day we found you in the woods.' We as an audience know it's bullshit bc Mike did not love El immediately and he also said befriending Will in kindergarten was the best thing he's ever done but idk how they're going to explain away that one in-universe. But the rest of it is fairly easy to debunk imo and actually serves a purpose for both El's arc and Mike's realization of his feelings.)

Warning for mild By1er doubt

Very good points and well said.

To the gay Mike vs. bi Mike point, I definitely think he's going to be unlabeled in canon. Personally I am a gay Mike truther primarily because "It's not my fault you don't like girls" reads as projection to me which only makes sense if Mike does not, in fact, like girls. And I think they could do gay Mike in a convincing way. (Here's my thoughts on what is going on in Mikes head during the monolgue, which I wrote from the perspective of him being gay, though it doesn't have to be read that way.) BUT I don't think they will do gay Mike, in canon he'll definitely be unlabeled.

To the point about the "my life started the day I found you in the woods" Yeah that line bumps me too. I know a lot of people use it as evidence that Mike is obviously lying through the whole monolgue. But I don't really think he's intentionally lying? So that doesn't explain it away for me. The pessimistic part of me just thinks maybe the writers just didn't expect people to read into it that much so they didn't concern themselves with the fact that Mike canonically was going to let El be sent "back to Pennhurst or wherever she came from." But I honestly don't know what to think about it. (I do have a theory about this line but I don't know how much merit to put into it, I'll probably make a separate post about it.)

Anyway, you made extremely good points. As I said before, I'm a massive pessimist, so everything I say regarding S5 predictions should probably be taken with a grain of salt for that reason. I have a hard time trusting the Duffers because I have a hard time trusting anyone.

For example, I am sort of afraid that they're still going to lean into the Superhero thing for El now that she has her powers back. It is possible that El was only upset at being called that because she didn't have her powers at the time. That's not the way I choose to interpret her character, I think she doesn't want to be a "superhero" regardless, BUT I worry that we're all misinterpreting it and the Duffers are going to be stupid idiots. But I won't dig too much more into the things about the monolgue that worry me, because that's depressing and I don't want to talk about it anymore.

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts anon, you said it well so I don't have much else to add. I sincerely hope that you are 100% correct and this is exactly the way the Duffers intended it to be interpreted.

#asks #abby rambles

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aurelion-cerulean · 2 years

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Time Skip Placement (Split Post 2)

Or in which I give Option 1 and Option 2

Option 1: Time Skip Happens During Ep 1

Honestly when it comes to this option one of the biggest questions that comes with it is, what was so important that had to be addressed in the first bit of this episode that 4x9 did not address. And then we have to ask ourselves why. We’ve already had everyone get back together, roughly. We have already seen the big bad. So then WHAT must be addressed here before we get the time skip?

Either we get a weird military prologue here where we get to see what they are doing and then SKIP. Or we get some wrap ups of some specific things and then SKIP. This would mainly be, what happened to Max? And, El and Mike’s relationship. However if they were going to address both of these in the first half of episode 1, why leave 4x9 the way that it was left? There really is no point.

Skipping half way though the episode makes no sense, because there are too many why’s. Why didn’t you just address that in 4x9 if you were going to establish it and then essentially skip over it?

Option 2: Time Skip Before Ep 1

Note: This won't happen. The Creators wanted to film 4 & 5 back to back. There is too much that they have to address before the skip, and while they could do it all as flashbacks. That's not the best story telling method. However, for the sake of this, I am addressing it and the why's it can't happen.

This opens us up to a lot of questions. If Mike and El are still together, we missed their talk which is low-key important. If they are broken up, we missed their talk which is low-key important. Maybe it happened on mutual terms? Who knows, but that talk itself, after being built up through a multitude of scenes (and to be interrupted) can’t be skipped over.

The next big issue is, what was Vecna just doing in this time that El was trying to power up? Healing? Of course some hand waving could be like they’ve been fighting this whole time but they haven’t been able to fight him specifically. So it’s just been carnage for a long time, right? So how in the world are the parents reacting? Did we already have them join? Or are we assuming that they still know absolutely nothing and they're living in this potential quarantine zone not asking what their children have been doing for two years?

Lastly, Max. IDK if they’ll just hand wave away the fact that she’d be in a coma for two years. But most coma patients who recently came to consciousness can’t get up, start running, and chasing monsters. Maybe they’ll keep her in a coma for the whole season, or the ending part will mirror S2 a bit with them having to protect her. Maybe Max is helping fight Vecna in Vecna’s head. Regardless, she has to be addressed, and I’m just saying but every time we THINK someone is dead they show up again pretty quick.

Of course the Max element could parallel the saving Will from S1, and thus she really isn’t back until the end, but… something tells me this is not what is going to be happening. It’s a gut feeling. I feel like Max will be more like Hppper and come back quickly.

#stranger things theory #stranger things season 5 theory #stranger things season five theory

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aeterna---amantes · 2 years

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|| Stranger Things's season 4 felt like a bridge between season 3 and 5. I have so many thoughts.

Personally, I really enjoyed this season - especially Eleven's origin and the introduction of Henry Creel and his storyline, it felt like it was more about him than anyone else - but the last episode felt so... off. It felt like nothing got revealed. Everything I wanted to be resolved just remained hanging in the air. Yes, I know, we need to be kept at the edges of our seats because of season five, but there're numerous ways this could've turned out.

For starters I really thought that Max will die. How El resurrected her (and messed it up) felt so, so wrong. Yes, she wanted her to live, but now she ended up in a state that's perhaps even worse than death. I know they wanted to make it clear how different Eleven and One are - One brings death, Eleven protects life - but since when does any of them have necromantic powers? You can clearly, easily kill with telekinesis, and I know Henry possesses maaad powers, he's waaay more advanced than Eleven, but to resurrect? It was a tad too much. Like it was put in the show so nobody really important (to Eleven) dies, but lives a life not worth living because she's clearly not there anymore.

It doesn't just feel like Eleven can't lose a loved one, it also feels like the Stranger Things writers themselves are afraid to kill off Max (or anyone from the core characters). The amount of shit they've done to Will, a death, in comparison, isn't that frightening. I would've felt sorry, yes, but she was so miserable during the entire season - even she admits she wanted something awful happen to her -, her death would've been a relief for her character. It would've been better than being in a coma from which she can never wake up. At least this is my opinion as a writer.

This just tells me that the writers were afraid to kill a 'lead' child of the show but I don't understand why when we've seen Henry systematically slaughter kids in the show. I mean constantly. We expected he'd kill someone we were invested in because everyone kept telling us this episode will hurt a lot! We were mortified Steve would die, for example. And One purposefully targeted children - starting with each and every one in the lab. I wonder why he hates kids so much, he could easily eleminate adults as well, everyone's powerless against him, so why kids? And why not write Max out when the opportunity arises? I mean yes, what happened to her did hurt, but from a writer's point of view, I don't expect they'll use her for plot or anything in the upcoming season considering the state she's been left in.

I was also so sure we'd get One's and Eleven's explanation said out loud - that she is his daughter. I've suspected this since they met, because I just felt he was One in episode five already and also the clues are all over (how he said she reminded him of One), it was even more obvious with the last episode when he said you and I, we are different. But no. It remains just a suspicion, maybe it'll be in the last season (as countless other things).

And while I'm happy the gang stayed alive, and suspected they would kill Eddie off, they kept telling us that heads will roll - I expected something far worse. Maybe that to get to Eleven, One targets Mike? Maybe that Mike is in danger and Will, being the purest, most selfless and loving character he is, saves him - or attempts to, but fails? (I'm sorry but he is the heart in my opinion, he fought for his friends to stay together, he tells others that they're valued and needed while Mike has been… sidetracked… for the past two seasons, diminished to protector of Eleven who can only repeat over and over again how much he can't lose her reminds me of Jon You're My Queen Snow.) Yes, it would've hurt and I would've hated it, but it would've had a more serious tone that I expected after seeing the hype in Twitter posts and articles quoted by the actors and creators.

Also Eddie, I've read a lot of complaints about Eddie's death in particular. I think of what would've happened if Eddie went back to the real world.

He was branded a murderer, a crazy mass murderer Satanist by the entire town. People who died were all linked to his name. The Upside Down is a place that you have to see with your own eyes because it's basically unbelievable if someone tells you about it. How would he explain what happened really? He had no chance to redeem himself in the real world, if he told the truth nobody would listen and he'd be locked up - either in a prison or in an asylum. Even in the closing scenes he had been talked about as a murderer.

When he stopped running, I think he knew this - and on top of this, he had to win the others time and had to protect Dustin, and he had no idea Vecna had been distracted on multiple lines already. He had to keep those creatures back from going after Dustin, and potentially, in the real world. If you look at it from this point of view, his sacrifice can be accepted. He wouldn't have a good life back in reality anyway, so why not go out with a boom?

(This doesn't mean I like the way he was written out. I still think it was a meaningless death. He had so much potential.)

One pointless side plot: Jason had a huge group of people and yet when they arrive at the old Creel house there's only two of them. Why? Where's the rest of the gang? Why make them seem to be a big problem in the end game when they aren't simply there when it goes down?

Another plotless side plot: Enzo and Jurij. Jurij kept being a major asshole and all his turning took one monologue from Enzo to turn? If it had been built for 2-3 episodes, I probably wouldn't complain. But it took three sentences and suddenly he's good again? It's so unbelievable. I also would've liked it if Enzo maybe remained to be the bait, maybe tell Hopper to tell his son he died in fight bravely, and blow up the entire facility with the Demogorgons in it. I'm not doing writing for a living, but Enzo was, and is, a totally expendable character, and if it doesn't matter what happens to him after escaping - because the last scene with him and Murray were in the copter -, then why not choose this line?

Will being gay and the way he's trying to deal with it hits hard - I've gone through the same hardships once and I can totally understand and feel for him. It's amazingly captured, the pain and struggle and not being sure if he'd be accepted by everyone as he is if he came out. It's also the 80s, which makes it even worse. I love how Jonathan noticed it in the car and how he tried to talk to Will about it, gently leaving the option open so he could come out if he wanted there and then. (And it's completely understandable that Will did not come out in the end.)

What was off putting for me was how Mike seemed to know when Vecna is fighting her and when the fight was over - how could he know that? And Will's nudging to urge Mike to give her strength to fight, and Mike finally told her he loves her - that was unbelievably, immensely painful because like I said I feel for Will and he was witnessing and hearing it all right beside him, that's salt in an open wound.

There's also a little mistake when Eleven explains that she could enter Max's mind and fight Vecna there: Eleven doesn't know Henry/One is also called Vecna. Mike has left for California when Dustin, Max, Steve and Robin talk to Eddie in the boat house and they name him Vecna there in episode two. Mike, Will, Jonathan, Argyle and Eleven can't know Henry/One is also called Vecna by the other group, and yet Eleven in that one scene explains like this:

"This is Max. When One attacks, he'll be in her mind. But I can do that too. I went into Mama's mind, into Billy's. I can go into Max's. She can carry me to Vecna. I can piggyback."

It was strange. I don't remember her hearing this name ever before, let alone using it for One.

And then - they had built Steve and Nancy's relationship and yet, it couldn't go anywhere. We got information about the relationship between Nancy and Jonathan, and Jonathan was struggling with telling her the truth, Argyle gave him a speech and yet at the end he still lied to her. These also felt like they'd carry it to the last season and it's so frustrating because you get these side plots you're invested in and yet nothing happens, they just keep standing in one place without moving anywhere. At least Joyce and Hopper got reunited and I really, really loved that. They had like, how much time to be happy together before reality started to melt with Upside Down, two days? Eleven getting back her real father was also very very touching for me. I'm so happy they could reunite. They got a tiny break together and it was lovely.

And I have to add it in because I'm always drawn to evil/morally grey characters all the time and I was extra excited to see this one particular actor in the show: Jamie Campbell Bower is absolutely slaying it as Vecna, his reasons and storyline is amazing and his motivations are understandable and well depicted, coupled with Jamie's acting we got a real villain we can love to hate. He delivers every single line and look and touch flawlessly. Once again, Jamie proved to me that he's an amazing actor who can play absolutely anything. Seriously. Give the man the attention he deserves.

So overall, I enjoyed it, there are so many things that still interests me, it didn't make me want to rage quit halfway the last episode (like cough Game of Thrones cough), but it felt like this was all an impossibly loooooong season that was only the build-up to the final season. Stuff happens but not really. If the fifth season came out already, I'd be really excited and say "okay, next one, NOW!" because the Real Big Fight is about to go down right now.

Despite the flaws, I still love the show, I'm still invested, and I can't wait to see more. 🖤

#ooc #Stranger Things #Stranger Things spoilers #spoilers #long post #🐍 relax. nothing is in control.

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