#svsss demon culture

[svsss-fanon-exposed]

Exposing SVSSS Fanon: 25/∞

VIOLENCE AS COURTSHIP IS A PART OF DEMON CULTURE

Rating: CANON

A nearly universal trope, especially in Moshang fics, is the fact that courtship is performed through violence in demon culture, and that the misunderstandings between the pair are because of cultural differences. The fact that demons mistreat the targets of their affection is canon, however, it is important for fans to note that this sort of characterization and worldbuilding is rooted in racial and ethnic stereotypes.

This is one of the most-requested topics I've ever written on this blog, and I took a long time to think about how best to approach the subject in a way that both keeps to the intention of this blog (referencing canon & providing quotes) as well as raising awareness to the very real problematic aspects of what is a well-loved and often-used trope in fanon that I don't think most western fans are aware of.

First, the canon analysis:

“If you hold unique feelings for a certain person, how can you make them understand your intentions?” Luo Binghe asked. Obviously, no one dared to tear down Luo Binghe’s facade and expose him directly, but this question was really very…unsuited to the demonic approach. After a long moment, not a single person had answered. In fact, the answer was so simple that any normal human could have given it to you. If you liked someone, you should just tell them. Unfortunately, there was not a single “normal” person on the scene—and aside from Shang Qinghua, there also were no “humans” either. Mobei-Jun thought about it. With the paths his mind was given to take, there was no telling how he had interpreted “unique” feelings. “Beat them up three times a day?” (7 Seas, Ch. 26)

Most of the fandom remembers this passage, and some may think that this is where the interpretation of violence as courtship comes from-- however, that is not the case. This passage might actually not refer to courtship at all-- while that is one possible interpretation, Mobei-jun could also be interpreting "unique feelings" to mean something different than "romantic feelings," since Luo Binghe didn't specify romance directly.

The "violent demonic courtship" idea actually originates much earlier in the novel, just after the invasion of Qiong Ding Peak:

In truth, Shen Qingqiu didn’t intend to tease; he thought himself very straightforward. The one who’d tampered with Luo Binghe’s dream realm was Sha Hualing. Though she did have some harmful intentions, her underlying motive was obvious. Naturally, she was driven by a young girl’s secret yearning for love. Otherwise, she would have directed her aggressions toward others, not specifically Luo Binghe. Demons were compelled to viciously bully the person they liked. Only if the object of their affections failed to die would the demon accept them. If their target died, that meant they were useless and not worth nursing any lingering affections for. (7 Seas, Ch. 3)

This, in fact, has somewhat more serious connotations than the way I have often seen it interpreted in fanworks-- it is not merely beating up a potential partner, but pushing them to their limits, nearly driving them to death, and it is certainly implied that it is not uncommon for the object of a demon's affections to actually die.

Now that the canonical basis of the idea has been established, let us move on to the second, and arguably more important part of this post: the racism.

I would like to add a disclaimer here-- I am going to discuss this in hopes of raising more awareness in the fandom, but I am not North/West/Central Asian myself, so I will only mention things in brief and somewhat generally-- if anyone who belongs to the affected cultures would like to make corrections, or more detailed explanations, or any other additions to this post on this topic, I greatly welcome that, as I feel it is an important issue that should be addressed.

In Chinese fiction, particularly fantasy genres like xianxia/xuanhuan/xiuzhen, but also in historical and wuxia fiction, there is a pervasive, prevalent tendency for authors to use racial and ethnic stereotypes against Central, Northern, and Western Asian cultures such as Mongolian & Arab cultures in their worldbuilding regarding the North, while stereotypes against Southeast Asian cultures are used in worldbuilding regarding the South. These stereotypes are most typically applied to villains and villainous groups, and are so widespread as to be ubiquitous within the genre. MXTX has used these tropes before-- notably with the Banyue people in TGCF, with adaptations of both TGCF and MDZS including design stereotypes, such as CQL's portrayal of the Qinghe Nie (combining their tendency toward violence and 'unnatural' cultivation method, with design traits typically associated with Northern/Central Asian cultures).

It is worth noting, though, that most authors do not intentionally use these traits as racist stereotypes in their worldbuilding, especially when regarding a non-human species-- in the same way that western fantasy authors use goblin and orc characters and tropes without realizing or acknowledging their racist origins and connotiations, these stereotypes have simply become genre tropes without that direct connection to their origins. Nonetheless, it is still worth noting-- and worth trying not to fall into the trap of leaning into stereotypical traits in fanworks' character portrayals.

Stereotypes include but are not limited to barbaric and brutish cultural traits, association with animals/having animal features, dark or corrupt magical/spiritual practices, certain types of braided hairstyles & other fashion choices, and originating from the far north or south.

Some of the prejudice and stereotyping of Northern Asian cultures likely originates from the fact that in the past, China was invaded and subjugated by peoples from the north (under Mongolian rule during the Yuan dynasty, and under Manchurian rule during the Qing dynasty) as well as having many conflicts with these peoples throughout history. In fact, the Qing dynasty only ended in the early 1900s, so some of this oppression is still in recent memory-- nonetheless, people belonging to ethnic minorities in China are still affected by this negative stereotyping today, so regardless of the origin, racism is still racism and should be addressed, and China today is a majority Han Chinese nation-- even if Han Chinese are considered a minority and affected by systemic racism in other places in the world.

Additionally, many tropes specifically applied to the southern demons, but also used for demon culture as a whole, are tied to stereotypical portrayals of Southeast Asian culture, which is rooted in a long history of Imperial China's invasion and oppression.

All of those stereotypes listed above apply to SVSSS' demon culture. Even in Mobei-jun's name-- 漠北 meaning "northern desert," which is the real-world name for a region in the north of the Gobi desert in Mongolia.

Therefore, it is important to remember that though violence-as-courtship in demon culture is canonical within SVSSS' setting, it nonetheless originates from harmful racial and ethnic stereotypes. It would be a good idea for fans to keep this in mind when creating their fanworks, and to treat the topic with sensitivity-- but I will leave any direct suggestions on how to handle this to those who are actually part of the affected groups.

--

(thanks to @flidgetjerome for additional notes regarding SEAsian stereotyping and author intent!)

Also, to be absolutely clear: I am not saying that svsss’ demons are specifically coded as any real ethnic group— it’s only that in many ways the portrayal is similar to the common portrayal of various ethnic groups in cmedia. I don’t believe they are specifically meant to parallel a real life group, unlike for example TGCF’s Banyue— but it’s worth questioning why these traits, why these characters.

#svsss #fanon exposed #svsss demon culture #mobei jun #canon #I don't know if I did a good job addressing the sensitive topics here so please feel free to correct anything I got wrong #or if I've overstepped anywhere #i just want to use the platform i have to bring this to the western fandom's attention since i don't think it's widely known #i will very gladly reblog any additions from fans who wish to weigh in but definitely don't feel pressured to do so

[mxtxdiaspora-may]

MXTX Diaspora May 2024: Prompts

Prompts for MXTX Diaspora May 2024 are based on 四象, the Four Symbols. See below for sub-prompts!

Sign-ups for MXTX Diaspora May 2024 are open until April 9, 2024. Any creator with Chinese heritage may participate.

Event Rules & FAQ

Sign-Up Form

Past collections:

2021 (MDZS only)

2022

2023

Reblogs and signal boosts for this event are welcome from both participants and non-participants. Please feel free to boost on bluesky and twitter as well.

Text-only version of the prompts are below the cut.

MXTX Diaspora May 2024 Prompts, week-by-week

Week 1 (May 01 - May 05): free week

Week 2 (May 06 - May 12): azure dragon / 青龙 Sub-prompts: east, springtime, dawn, wood, blue-green

Week 3 (May 13 - May 19): vermillion bird / 朱雀 Sub-prompts: south, summer, midday, fire, red

Week 4 (May 20 - May 26): white tiger / 白虎 Sub-prompts: west, autumn, dusk, metal, white

Week 5 (May 27 - May 31): black tortoise / 玄武 Sub-prompts: north, winter, midnight, water, black

#mxtx diaspora may #chinese diaspora #sino diaspora #mxtx event #mxtx #mdzs #svsss #tgcf #mo dao zu shi #the grandmaster of demonic cultivation #tian guan ci fu #heaven official's blessing #ren zha fanpai zijiu xitong #scum villain #fandom events #event prompts #four symbols #chinese culture #chinese diaspora event #scum villain's self saving system #chinese mythology

[mmmmmgoodbye]

so I was rereading the airplane extras, right? and I was thinking, hm, sqh seems to be a bit stockholm’d here! he’s like “yknow, it’s not so bad here. mbj doesn’t even beat me up that much anymore! and I can leave and visit cang qiong mountain sometimes!” and I’m like hm?????? that seems like not much of an upgrade????????? it’s giving,, uh,,,,, stockholm syndrome, my friend!! look out for that!!!!

#svsss #shang qinghua #mobei jun #it’s interesting #don’t get me wrong I love the moshang dynamic #but in canon it’s a little funky I think??? they need some mfing communication #culture divides between humans and demons are very large

[bijoumikhawal]

Okay I've read the main body of SVSSS. I think it's really good as a meta parody and gives some interesting insight into MXTX's mind- I think some of the criticism of her work is unfair and this book is a pretty good example in parts (the running commentary about misogyny in stallion novels is a lot more unambiguous than her accurately depicting misogyny in others wirks like MDZS, though I don't understand why the latter gets read as an indication of her as a person).

However I don't think it works well as a romance story. There are main two problems; one,that while all of MXTX's main characters are people that have gone through the wringer and lashed out on others because of it, sometimes in really grusome and reprehensible ways, we get to see who they are not just before it goes to shit, but after they've acted in a such a way and either by intentional choice or just the passing of time, behave in a kinder and more upright manner. SVSSS's main story ends right after LBH isn't being an antagonistic force driven to the pits. Additionally, LBH is (understandably) a very misanthropic character which makes the way you'd show him learning how to be a person not driven by grief, fear, and anger different.

The other point is SY/SQQ's internalized homophobia is handled in a way that distracts somewhat from his feelings for LBH, and this combines with a lot of the things taken as romantic by other characters being misinterpretions of his internal world. Some of the latter seems to be him bullshitting himself though- "I'm not crying because I'm facing down my beloved student who I've failed horribly and hates me before I off myself without knowing for sure if my contingency plan will work, the sun's just in my eyes", sure Jan. Given how WWX acts its clear that MXTX now knows how to balance internalized homophobia with the character falling in love even if he doesn't realize it, and TGCF doesn't really have internalized homophobia on the protagonists part as far as I've read, he's just a sworn virgin. (However one could argue HC had some issues when he was human depending on how you read the Land of the tender scene).

SVSSS is short compared to her other works, and while I'm not sure how one would do it, having us spend some time with LBH and SQQ after they've gotten rid of his evil sword and SQQ is helping him work through his misanthropy, desire for control, and abandonment issues would improve their relationship from a story perspective, especially because of how obsessive and unhealthy LBH has spent... 8 years of his life regarding SQQ. There's already a foundation with LBH taking SQQ back to his home peak to be taken care of after his near death experience and leaving alone when he gets chased off, and SQQ choosing to go with him with no pressure on him to do so other than LBH's wellbeing (which is no longer tied to things like the apocalypse). I just think there needs to be a bit more between that and what I'm reading in the extras so far.

And it is needed because of how much LBH's dark behavior was directed at SQQ. WWX's dark behavior wasn't so targeted, LWJ's had an instance of targeting but a large part of the novel has been about him doing his best to respect WWX's boundaries and not repeat his parents relationship. I'm not up to snuff on what happened after XL's first banishment yet so I'll keep quiet on that. LBH is so desperate for this one person's affection that he almost destroys the world to ensure he has no other choice but him (and they have terrible fuck or die sex that no one enjoys about it). Evil sword possession making him decide this was a good idea or no, to work as a satisfying romance story, you need to after of all that. Especially because the evil sword had the ability to push him that far because of how chaotic and wrecked his mental and spiritual state were. They're still wrecked.

#Cipher talk #SVSSS #Just thoughts. Overall I like the novel- I think SQQ's internal monologue is hilarious and the comedy is decent #But the romance aspect needs workshopping #I think one way to work this in with a Main plot might be to revisit SHL's father causing trouble #Like that didn't get dropped exactly but you could have him trying to take advantage of the post 'oh gods we're all still alive' mindset to #Cause chaos at the borderlands or have him trying to take advantage of LBH taking a power hit from not using his evil sword anymore #Have SQQ accompany him while dealing with it #Maybe have it be a campaign where we see more of LBH's other aides and have part of it be LBH learning to actually have relationships with #Them and not suspect everyone 100% hates him for being half human half demon. The value of not acting like a monster even if it's expected #Hell maybe have his relationship with SHL improve so they're not romantic but he's not holding her in such contempt #Or make her turn traitor because of his contempt for her #Thereby expanding the theme about women not just being harem collectibles by having her have a platonic relationship with him or by having #Her take logical actions instead of just sticking to LBH like glue for ??? Reasons #I could write this but I have several wips already and I don't feel well versed enough in Chinese culture to write fanfic for it #(Or any of MXTX's works. It's not about feeling not allowed to its about wanting to pay respect to the work #And wanting to do it in a way I'll be satisfied with)

[tciddaemina]

Shang Qinghua, beyond having a godly insight into the weaving fortunes of the future, is also uniquely gifted at logistics, economics, and political engineering. There has never been less strife within a demon court, the sheer stability of Mobei-Jun's position and alliances an unshakable bedrock, and all because of one man.

Mobei-Jun isn't the only one to realize it, the members of his court having quickly learned who it was who truly had the king's ear. For his use as an adviser alone he's a valuable resource, and it wouldn't do for anyone to think they can get away with trying to poach him.

So Mobei-Jun promotes him, and then for good measure promotes him again, making him his official adviser and assistant, and head of palace affairs as well while he's at it. And then when that still isn't enough to stop people eyeing him up, Mobei-Jun promotes him again, and then again - naming him first consort, then as his wife, empress of the northern demon realm.

-

The one where Mobei-Jun marries Shang Qinghua, and doesn't really bother to ever actually tell him that he's done it.

#my writing #SVSSS #mobei-jun/shang qinghua #fandom #demon culture #demon courting #these are the two densest mofos you guys have ever seen #the level of communication is through the floor #it doesn't even exist

[digitalcactusblog]

i have been voraciously downloading every single moshang fic on ao3 into my brain with a near-religious fervor for the past week, and the conclusion i have come to is

i need a fic. where mobei-jun and luo binghe are stupid himbo demon bros with each other. just. absolute jock clown behavior from two men the size of mountains while their squishy human husbands stare on in lust horror

#svsss #something something demonic traditions demonic cultures something something #lbh shoulder-checks mbj into a wall hard enough to shatter it as a standard demon greeting #and mbj bashes him over the head with a bit of the wall as greeting reply #and lbh turns around to greet sqq with a bright puppy-like 'shizun!!!!! :D 🥰 😍' #all signs of demonic aggression washed away like water off a duck's wings #...i may need to write this fic

[mercyll]

The way SVSSS talks about mob mentality and toxic fandom culture is so good. Shen Yuan is a toxic fan. He reads a book he hates and goes out of his way to fight with people on forums and leave hate comment after hate comment on "Proud Immortal Demon Way" as well as going out of his way to constantly rage at and make fun of Airplane.

The story also makes commentary on the publishing industry and 'Capitalism' and how writing as a job can actually hinder artistic merit.

Airplane writes what will keep people reading and neglects whatever ideas he wanted to put into the story or whatever artistic merit it could of had because people were more interested in filthy smut than a complex story line.

Airplane is an author who's just trying to make a living so he writes whatever will keep people reading. He literally doesn't care if he gets hate comments, and in fact finds them amusing, and is almost prideful of it because at least it means people are reading his book and he can pay the bills.

We see both sides whenever Airplane and Shen Yuan interact with one another. One being the toxic fan and one being the author who wrote smut to feed himself.

(TLDR; SVSSS has really well thought out commentary on toxic internet culture and working as an artist)

#Shen Yuan is the fan I strive not to be #Shen Yuan #SVSSS #scum villian self saving system #shang qinghua #shen qingqiu #rambles

[perpetualcontrolleddrowning]

The point is that they don't fall into the trap of an oppressive society

Svsss power dynamics are absolutely wild, and I've seen another post mention that already, about how every time you think you're seeing a fucked up dynamic, it's actually three layers deeper and flipped and more imbalanced than you could ever imagine

But the point! Is that they live in an environment that is Always giving each character some power over the other person in the relationship! And none of them ever use it

The novel is critiquing these power trip fantasies and the exploitation often seen as inherent in porn and BL and wish fulfillment stories

Sqq was lbh's teacher. There is often abuse inherent in the teacher/student dynamic. Sqq never even considers lbh as a romantic option until they have been apart for years and there is no age gap

Lbh has a tracking device on sqq and the ability to seize control of sqq's body at any time. He never uses this and only wields his blood parasites to heal

Mbj is sqh's boss who regularly heaps too much work onto him and would physically attack him. Mbj's role as boss is never utilized to coerce or manipulate sqh into a romantic relationship. Mbj was engaging in demonic bonding activities that were acceptable within his culture and stopped the Moment he realized that it was not received that way

Sqh invented the world and created his dream man who he is now romancing. He could be considered a god. It could be wish fulfillment. He uses his knowledge to protect mbj's kingdom and mbj himself and takes up a servants role

There are a thousand other tropes in this book like this. You hear student/teacher, god/creation, body control, fuck-or-die, demon lord/prisoner, age difference, corpse in bed, boss/employee, King/servant. You think you know what kind of book this will be, what kind of abuse and power differences there will be

But the point is that they all just love each other instead! The world is Constantly giving them the opportunity to abuse each other, manipulate, take power over another person. And the point is that they all choose to ignore those customs. The teacher just wants to relax and live a simple life. The god wants to serve. The king learns to serve. The demon lord wants nothing more than to leave it all behind and become a housewife

And it works! They get their happy ending! They fix the world by refusing the opportunities to exploit and abuse others

It's beautiful! And it also makes it absolutely impossible to recommend this novel to anyone!

#svsss #moshang #bingqiu #lbh #sqq #sqh #mbj

[jade-len]

bad svsss fanfic/au idea, pt. 2: random svsss anti-fan (or hater) transmigrates into svsss after tweeting "stupid author, stupid novels" and proceeds to solve 90% of the novel's conflicts out of pure spite by pretending to be a seer.

"luo binghe will not kill you, shen qingqiu. just trust me when i say that."

"please listen to me when i say this, luo binghe. focus on yourself for a bit. learn to love yourself too. yes i know you're hopelessly in love but you shouldn't just rely on his affection to hold up your emotional wellbeing, okay??"

"oh yeah no. the huan hua palace's sect leader is a pervert who preyed on su xiyan, which led to a bunch of conflict and misunderstanding and now he's kinda gotten away with it." *proceeds to explain the whole lore of it* "see you later, yue qingyuan!"

"zhuzhi-lang, i have very important advice, okay. just because you love someone and believe something is best for them, you should not force them to do it. by the way, can i see your uncle real quick?"

"yeah. uhm. it was all old palace master's fault. go fuck him up, tianlang-jun. just don't kill anyone else in the process. also uh, read better romance novels please."

"gongyi xiao, if immortal master shen qingqiu and shang qinghua ever ask you to look around for some special mushrooms, run right after you help them navigate huan hua palace. like leave the damn place. you will meet your fate if you stay here. ok cool bye."

"mu qingfang please introduce this thing called 'therapy' and 'counseling'. i promise you it will reduce qi deviations by 50%."

"mobei-jun... don't. don't beat shang qinghua up. look i know it's demon culture but maybe try to also learn some human courtesy too?"

"liu qingge. one day you will find someone who will have the same amount of devotion for you as you will for them. and you are an amazing person for it ok."

at some point they probably explain to sqq and sqh that they've transmigrated into a story that's about sqq transmigrating into PIDW, which is also a story.

there can be three routes to this:

1. there is no hurt. binghe's heartbreak points doesn't even exist. everyone is cool and there are no deaths. also tianlang-jun tortures and kill OPM, so there's that. maybe some romance or whatevs happens but it's all good.

2. while they stopped 90% of the original conflict, they proceed to accidentally create some more by simply being there. the system declares that they're the "new main character" for the audience, just like how sqq is with svsss. now, new and different plot points start happening to them instead of shen qingqiu! how will they use their knowledge now, with things they can't predict?

2. mid-way, they accidentally put a huge target on their back. unintentionally, they're going against the system's wishes and the whole point of the novel: uncover the hidden plot of PIDW. they're like a virus, a bug, something that isn't supposed to be there, but is. they don't have a system, they exist beyond that; so they can't just be sent back. they're accidentally ruining the story of svsss by not having any of the conflicts mxtx created to occur, and thus must be stopped before they completely flip everything over.

the new mission given by the system for sqq and sqh? [URGENT: stomp the bug, no matter what!]

#woah it got like. real meta at the end #svsss ideas #shen qingqiu #luo binghe #liu qingge #tianlang jun #shang qinghua #zhuzhi lang #yue qingyuan #gongyi xiao #mobei jun #su xiyan #svsss #mxtx svsss #the scum villain's self saving system

[mdzs-fanon-exposed]

Introductory post: Please read! :)

hi everyone! welcome to my very own MDZS-specific iteration of the unparalleled @svsss-fanon-exposed and @tgcf-fanon-exposed. this blog is designed to find the differences between canon and fanon in the Mo Dao Zu Shi/Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation fandom.

this blog is NOVEL CANON ONLY. although i may occasionally cite the drama or the donghua as the potential source for any misconceptions, the canons of these adaptations differ too much from the novel canon for my purposes (plus i haven't finished either one. whoops).

how this whole thing works:

send me an ask! is this thing you thought was canon actually fanon? is that fanon idea supported in the books? where? why? how?

i'll answer the ask with a rating, using SVFE's helpful rating system (explained below), and then go into detail. generally a post will include textual evidence supporting my rating, and possibly an analysis of what this means/where an idea came from.

i'll do my best not to introduce my own personal opinions or biases into the posts. if you have any textual evidence that you think disproves or otherwise contradicts one of my posts, i'm always happy to be corrected! HOWEVER. please do not argue with me or anyone else unnecessarily; this blog is not supposed to be a site for or source of discourse. i will block anyone who is repeatedly coming at me with bad faith. i'm doing this project for fun, and i want to keep it that way for everyone :)

posts will probably be sporadic so i don't burn myself out and lose interest. however, i want to try and answer as many questions as i can! submissions will open and close based on demand so i can stay on top of things.

some important things to keep in mind:

i'm not here to dunk on anyone's headcanons, and i am fully supportive of everyone's creative choices in the fandom!! (in fact i have many headcanons myself.) DO NOT harass anyone for their interpretations of the series. my purpose here is just to clarify whether certain ideas are textually supported, NOT to give an opinion on them.

i'm doing this blog for fun, so i'll be treating it as a casual project. i will only be using the official english translation of the novels, with the supplementary exception of the exiled rebels fanlation. i don't speak any chinese, so i will not be using the untranslated raws or any non-english fandom sources in my posts. although i'll be doing research as needed, i also will not be evaluating any headcanons purely based on chinese cultural norms, due to my unfamiliarity with them. if you are more familiar with any of these sources and have more information to add to a post, please let me know!

BECAUSE this is a casual project from someone whose only credentials are being completely obsessed with mo dao zu shi and knowing how to write an essay, anyone is welcome to make a blog that does this but. better. let me know if you start one and i'll point people your way lol.

finally: i will NOT be entertaining any character bashing in or on my blog. i've noticed that a lot of mdzs characters have some very... strong opinions about them across the fandom, and i may evaluate the "canon status" of asks that address specific aspects of these opinions, but as a general rule: i am going to be neutral-to-positive about EVERY mdzs character (yes, even that one. and that one. and-). and again, this is not a personal opinion-based blog, i'm looking at textual support, so honestly i don't think this disclaimer is necessary. but. just in case.

💥💥the rating system:💥💥

CANON: what it says on the tin! this fact is supported by the text. if you're trying to be as canon-compliant as possible, this rating is for you.

RUMOR: this fact is an in-text rumor. although this idea is mentioned in the novel, it's still not explicitly confirmed as canon. the characters themselves don't know if it's true or not!

FANON – SUPPORTED: not directly stated in canon, but it's a very likely interpretation, taking into account factors like cultural norms and occam's razor! this rating might be retroactively added to a post previously rated FANON – NEUTRAL, based on crowdsourced information about the raws or chinese culture.

FANON – NEUTRAL: it's not canon, but it's not NOT canon. the text neither confirms nor denies this interpretation, so it's up to you whether you want to consider it true to canon or not. the world is your oyster.

FANON – UNSUPPORTED: not directly stated in canon, but it's a very unlikely interpretation, taking into account factors like cultural norms and occam's razor. this rating might be retroactively added to a post previously rated FANON – NEUTRAL, based on crowdsourced information about the raws or chinese culture.

FANON – CONFLICTING: this idea directly contradicts something stated in the text. if you want to stay as canon-compliant as possible, this rating is not for you.

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi #mdzs meta #here goes nothing i suppose #i want you all to picture the 💥 emoji as if 'the rating system' was a youtube title screen with a bunch of explosions and air horns btw

[svsss-fanon-exposed]

Exposing SVSSS Fanon: 16/∞

LUO BINGHE HAS A "STEREOTYPICALLY MASCULINE" APPEARANCE

Rating: FANON - CONFLICTING

In fanworks, Luo Binghe is often portrayed as particularly muscular and buff, broad-shouldered, often with tanned skin and sharply-defined features-- all traits that are considered to be stereotypically masculine in the west.

All of this directly contradicts his canonical description.

Necessary disclaimer: I'm not talking against depicting Luo Binghe with a naturally darker skin tone. While that still contradicts the canonical description, I can understand going against colorism (something very rampant in east asian beauty standards!) in fanworks. This sort of discussion is particularly toward those who portray him as fair-skinned on Qing Jing Peak, darker skinned after the abyss, hence "tanned." While this sort of thing might have issues of its own, that's also not the topic of this post, and as a light-skinned Asian person, I don't feel particularly qualified to talk about it.

In truth, deep down, Bing-ge’s fair and clean pretty-boy type didn’t really suit the tastes of “Great Master” Airplane Shooting Towards the Sky.... The art of growing stallions was grounded in science, and the research was clear: women preferred men who looked cultured, pretty, and even a bit soft and feminine. (7 Seas, Ch. 26)

The buff and bulky Luo Binghe often seen in fanworks is not what I would consider to be cultured, pretty, soft, and feminine.

Luo Binghe is described this way just before the conference:

A seventeen-year-old youth, slim and tall and graceful, dressed in white robes, lips turned upward in the hint of a smile, gazed at him with a pair of shining eyes. (7 Seas, Ch. 4)

And again after his return:

The other party was a little taller than [Shen Qingqiu], slender and willowy, dressed in clothes as black as ink that exposed only a fair neck.  (7 Seas, Ch. 7)

And a description of his hands later on:

That hand was slender and unadorned. It didn’t look like the hand of a young lord of the demon race who had already taken countless lives, but rather one whose master had been born to pluck strings, his hand to burn incense and bathe in snow. (7 Seas, Ch. 14)

Consistantly, Luo Binghe is depicted this way-- slender and refined, with fair skin and a softness to his appearance that contradicts his actions.

Furthermore, Luo Binghe is also described as looking very similar to his mother:

Luo Binghe was beautiful, and he looked quite like his birth mother. (7 Seas, Ch. 4)

and

Yue Qingyuan’s knuckles slowly brushed along Xuan Su’s hilt. “I was able to meet Senior Su Xiyan once at an Immortal Alliance Conference, many years ago. Luo Binghe’s appearance is seven-tenths identical to his mother’s.  (7 Seas, Ch. 18)

As for Su Xiyan's appearance, not much is directly stated-- it can be inferred that she likewise looked quite similar to Luo Binghe, but the only description of her physical appearance that we have is found here:

Even if she wasn’t burly and heavyset, she should at least look like a martial arts master with fierce and ferocious eyes. For all that, when he finally met the culprit behind Tianlang-Jun’s bout of philosophical soul-searching, which had tormented Zhuzhi-Lang for many days, he realized that the culprit in question was not quite like what he’d envisioned... ... Just as these two tourists were standing penniless in the street, a tall woman dressed in black strolled by, sword on her back. (7 Seas, Ch. 25)

The only positive descriptor here is that she is tall, but it can also be implied that she does not have the appearance of a martial arts master, and did not look as fierce and ferocious as Zhuzhi-lang expected, especially in terms of her eyes. However, she is described as a cold person-- whether or not that carried over into her appearance, though, is up for debate.

Su Xiyan's eyes are another matter for discussion--

In appearance, Luo Binghe resembled his mother Su Xiyan, but you could more or less see the shadow of his father in him. For example, in the eyes. Tianlang-Jun’s eyes were deep-set, his brow strong and heroic, the irises dark like fathomless water. In this, he and Luo Binghe were very much alike. Luo Binghe had a pretty boy appearance in the first place, but if his eyes had resembled his mother’s too, his face would have been excessively feminine and the effect would be lost. (7 Seas, Ch. 15)

Here, specifically, Luo Binghe is noted as having his father's strong brow and deep-set eyes, as opposed to his mothers, which based on this passage were most likely to be round, soft, and "feminine"-looking. It's also interesting to see that if not for having his father's eyes, Luo Binghe's features would be "excessively feminine," therefore implying that the softer look applies to all parts of his face except for his eyes and brows.

(thanks to @furbygoblinxiv , @bijoumikhawal for bringing up this point)

So, Luo Binghe is a lithe and petite pretty-boy. Nonetheless, he is still notably muscular. Specifically with a surprising amount of lean muscle-- something that Shen Qingqiu actually remarks on:

Luo Binghe was on top, and Shen Qingqiu was on the bottom, so he was smushed under a considerable weight and almost unable to draw another breath. What had this child been eating?! He looked quite slim, so how was he this heavy?! ... A person’s abdomen is supposed to be the softest spot on their body, but Luo Binghe’s was uncomfortably hard against Shen Qingqiu’s stomach. The farther down he pulled him, the more he was sure that Luo Binghe had an eight-pack. Was that a rock slab down there? (7 Seas, Ch. 16)

(thanks to @verycharismaticdragon for bringing up this point)

As for where the fan depiction of buff, tanned, "hyper-masculine" Luo Binghe may have originated?

I'm not certain where the first such depiction came from, but as for the logic behind it, such phenomena could be explained as thinking of Luo Binghe, the stallion protagonist, as having an "ideal masculine" appearance.

For western audiences and beauty standards, this would certainly be that same sort of muscular, tall, with tanned skin and defined features. Naturally, when first thinking of what a "stereotype of an ideal man" would look like, these traits would come to mind to a western audience.

It is a bit different in eastern standards. While muscular appearances can still be favored, lean muscle is vastly, vastly preferred over bulky muscle, and fair skin, which represents elegance and status (as those with fair skin tones are perceived as those who are wealthy, and do not need to work outdoors) is preferred over tanned skin. This is, of course, a generalization-- but as a representation of ideal masculinity, Luo Binghe's appearance would also be a generalization.

Particularly, Luo Binghe's figure and appearance is described not as those favored by men for themselves, but as those favored aesthetically by women. Therefore, that gentle, refined appearance is a must.

While western vs eastern beauty standards may play a role in this, it is also possible that western vs eastern character design standards may also be coming into play. While in eastern character design, things such as color and style of clothing and hair play a very large role in creating visual contrast, in terms of western designs, body shape and style, along with hair shape and style, seem to be far more important, with the idea that a character should be recognizable by silhouette alone. This may lead to western-trained artists, and also those who grew up watching primarily western cartoons, unconsciously applying those same standards to their own design-- such as making Luo Binghe broader-shouldered and with rounder shapes, the "heroic" type character design, in contrast to sharper, narrower shapes for Shen Qingqiu, the "villain" type character design.

(thanks to @gaywarcriminals , @mu-qingfang-stan-account , @temporoom for bringing up this explanation)

One additional possible reason would be the potential for heteronormative/"het-coding" standards being applied to a gay relationship, where the gong is being given more "traditionally masculine" features in order to align with gender roles. This is something that is fairly common in BL/MLM shipping and designs in general, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that it might apply in some fashion to Luo Binghe's fan-design as well (Note, this does not apply to actual fem/masc mlm pairs, because those do exist and it isn't always about heteronormativity. This is specifically referring to taking characters with roughly similar build like SQQ and LBH and making their designs distinctly more masc/fem based on who tops and who bottoms).

(thanks to @mysteryteacup and @gurggggleburgle for bringing this up)

As for the true source of these design elements, it probably cannot be narrowed down to just one-- rather, it would be an amalgamation of bits and pieces of all of the above, as well as the popularity and spread of certain designs throughout the fandom and artists taking inspiration from one another.

So often i've seen that Luo Binghe's bulk and muscles are shown as key traits of his physical appearance, despite the fact that this directly contradicts his actual depiction in the novel. Thus, it is inaccurate to depict him this way.

Luo Binghe's canonical body type and build is tall, slender, and willowy with lean musculature, and his features are soft and a bit effeminate. The best example I could give for reference would be to base his body type off of a pretty-boy type idol.

Of course, fanartists are perfectly free to continue drawing him however they please, but it should not be assumed that a Luo Binghe with bulky musculature, tanned skin, and sharp features is a canon-compliant depiction.

Luo Binghe is a pretty-boy.

#fanon exposed #conflicting #svsss #luo binghe #edited

[furbygoblinxiv]

And finally, the entire reason I started this mini svsss design series, part three, some iconic misc demons: Meng Mo, Six Balls, and Sha Hualing ft Liu Mingyan. Close ups and headcanons under the cut!

Ok so first up is Mengo Mo. I gave him a more space and night themed design since I thought it'd be interesting if he hailed from a clan connected to that sorta thing, hence why he was able to keep his spirit alive and so powerful in the dream realm after having been smited lol. Like a sort of magic only those demons learned all those years ago, hence why there aren't many other master dream demons. Based completely on nothing but "hey dream magic and shadow teleporting powers could be similar if you squint", I gave him design elements to match my design of Mobei Jun's mom from part 2 of this little series. Are they distantly related? Eh who knows lol 🤷‍♀️. Beyond that, I gave him clothing pieces from other demon cultures to show how much he's been Around. I made his hair all billowy since I thought it'd be fun for that to be part of his smoke like experience.

I wanted to maximize the Little Guy energy, and also wanted to only use six colors on him. I like to think hes a fun and colorful mix of scales and feathers. I also made him have a similar outfit style to Sha Hualing as if they hailed from similar areas of the demon realm, which I made the west. I have his only piece of jewelry being the supposed clan crest on the waist bc hes a lower class demon. If he unbraided his hair he'd have a flowing mohawk of sorts...anywho

Queens, icons, legends. For Sha Hualing, this is more of a casual fit, I imagine she probably wears wayyy more jewelry than this. I wanted her outfit to be fun, revealing, and very easily blown off in battle lol. Liu Mingyan, by contrast, is wearing the head disciple uniform of Xian Shu, which covers 100% more of her lol. The light color fabric with color accents paired with the grey shoes and grey belt, which has drapery and embroidery that matches the theming of the peak is something I tried to match for the inner/head disciples, like Ning Yingying and Luo Binghe in part 1 of this mini series. I like to imagine that Xian Shu specializes in textiles and fabrics, and thus the disciples there would have an enchanted piece or two on them at all times. I mean, an enchanted face covering would ensure that no one unwanted saw your face, right? Anyways, I gave Sha Hualing purple on the earrings and Liu Mingyan red and gold on her hair crown to symbolize…something lol.

Anyways, not as much to say this time, except that I love Six Balls. Also I miiight post peak lords next? It really depends. Anyways, thanks for reading o7

#svsss #scum villian self saving system #scum villain #svsss fanart #scum villain fanart #meng mo #six balls #sha hualing #liu mingyan #my art tag #my svsss char design series

[mxtxdiaspora-may]

MXTX Diaspora May 2024: Sign-ups closed!

Sign-ups for MXTX Diaspora May 2024 are now closed.

If you signed up as a 2024 participant, but have not yet joined the event discord, please do so at your earliest convenience. If you have not received a discord link or have any questions or concerns, please contact the mods. Contact information can be found in the Event Rules & FAQ document in the Sign-ups section.

Please keep an eye out for the works in our 2024 AO3 subcollection starting in May. In the meantime, please feel free to browse through our past collections. Kudos and comments are always appreciated by creators, no matter how old the work is.

Past collections:

2021 (MDZS only)

2022

2023

Reblogs and signal boosts for this event are welcome from both participants and non-participants. Please feel free to boost on bluesky and twitter as well.

We look forward to celebrating and sharing the works for 2024!

#mxtx diaspora may #chinese diaspora #sino diaspora #chinese diaspora event #mxtx events #mxtx event #mdzs #mdzs event #mo dao zu shi #cql #chen qing ling #the grandmaster of demonic cultivation #the untamed #tgcf #tgcf event #tian guan ci fu #heaven official's blessing #svsss #svsss event #scum villain #scum villain's self saving system #ren zha fanpai zijiu xitong #mxtx fandom #mxtx #mo xiang tong xiu #fandom event #chinese culture #墨香铜臭 #魔道祖师 #天官赐福

[southernwolf16]

After coming across SVSSS-related stuff on the blogs I follow/stalk, I finally gave in to my curiosity and checked the donghua.

I tried reading the novel a while back, but it didn't entice me that much so I didn't finish it. I think seeing the donghua helped spark my interest again.

Then I held back from watching Ep 10 for the past week and started reading the novel. I'm almost finished with it.

It's so different from MDZS. I find myself laughing most of the time. Luo Binghe and Shen Qingqiu (Shen Yuan edition) are such disasters. I'm sure the more senior fans have already written eloquent posts about how codependent they are, Shen Jiu and Yue Qingyuan's relationship, why Cucumber Bro and Airplane Bro transmigrated to the novel they read/wrote, why the System exists in the first place, writing what you're passionate about vs writing what'll bring in money, and who is Jiang Cheng's counterpart in SVSSS, among other things. I think I read a post suggesting it's Liu Qingge? Or is it Shen Jiu?

Anyway, back to the donghua. I hope I'm not alone in saying I like the character design. At first it was a little jarring---maybe because I'm not used to watching CGI---and the donghua isn't actually 100% polished a la FFVII remake (on a side note, someone joked that Yue Qingyuan seems to be from the PS2 era). Regardless, I appreciate the design since it gave me an idea how the characters look like.

Which is why I'm a bit surprised when I started trawling the SVSSS tags here at Tumblr and saw art depicting Luo Binghe as a curly-haired, big-muscled mountain of a man. Perhaps this is influenced by Western taste? I'm not an expert in Chinese literature or culture, but in some pics I've seen from Cdramas those of demon blood who play major roles don't have the physique of someone who can crack walnuts with their biceps. Think Wang Yue (Wang Zhuocheng) from Legend of Chongzi and that actor from Love Between Fairy and Devil. Furthermore, Luo Binghe is described as a pretty boy in the novel so at this point, I'm of the humble opinion that the donghua got his body type right. And I subscribe to the standards of beauty from the source culture.

Okay, going back to the donghua Ep 10. As we say here in my country, papunta na tayo sa exciting part---I'm going to see Luo Binghe get pushed down the Endless Abyss by his beloved Shizun. Oh, the angst, the drama.

Nope. Nothing of the sort happened.

Oh, so they saved it for Season 2 [Tries to find Season 2]

[Season 2 not yet released] 😨

What. The. Hell.

I held off finishing Season 1 because I thought Season 2's already available. The site where I watched the donghua said Season 2's release is 2022.

Dude, we're two months' shy of closing 2023. 😱

Season 2, where art thou? 😭

#SVSSS #Scum Villain's Self Saving System #southernwolf16 rambles #southernwolf16 explores #please donghua gods #give us Season 2 #the S1 cliffhanger should be considered illegal

[tcfactory]

There's a discussion about racism in mxtx fan stories/headcanons going around and someone made a comment about not feeling comfortable with people making the northern demons in svsss fanworks mongolian because it falls into 'barbarian coding'. How do you feel about this?

Well, first off: I'm not Asian by any stretch of the imagination, I'm Hungarian. So I don't know enough about how racism manifests in those parts of the world to have a really deep understanding of it. I try to listen to people who know better than I do, but when it comes down to it, I can still only hope that someone will tell me if I mess up. I keep anon open at all times and I have anon comments enabled on ao3 (when it works), I assumed that if I made a really glaring mistake, people would have yelled at me already.

As for In Tune, I haven't really made it explicit so I might have fumbled the intent, but here's the thing: the northern demons in that fic are not Mongolian. They are certainly influenced by Mongolians - they have loan words and other cultural imports - that being the group of humans they interact the most with without strife (at least recently), but the northern demons are a cultural entity in and of themselves. They have their own language and their own culture separate of anything they have picked up from the humans. If we get around to that in the story, I'll try to elaborate on it a little that they have also picked up things similarly from the Jianghu before the blood feud with Huan Hua made them cut ties with that section of the human realm and this is why I deliberately stuck to giving them Chinese names.

The only demons in the story who are supposed to be actually part of an extant human cultural group are the Japanese branch, because the story imagines Japan to have more of an Inuyasha style "the lord in this castle is a human and the lord in that castle is a demon and it sucks because they both want us to pay taxes" kind of situation, where the local demons intermingle much more closely with the humans.

But, at the end of the day, intentions only count for so much, so I really hope people will speak up and tell me if I make a blunder.

#shut up tc #do I want to tag this? eh why the hell not. let's give people a chance to find this and yell at me if I'm wrong #svsss #I haven't seen the post yet but yeah please do tell me if I mess up #I'm trying to do research but you can only find so much without a primary source

[frogizz]

SVSSS End of Novel Spoilers

I like how the SVSSS villain was the Old Palace Master.

He didn't show up as much but he played a very important role. Because Shen Qingqiu didn't play as the villain anymore, certain events still needed to happen that Luo Bingmei wasn't driven to do, so there needed to be additional characters and extra context to make those events happen.

(Of course those characters existed beforehand, just in PIDW they never went into the details of the Tianlang-Jun and Zhuzhi-Lang wasn't even originally a character if I'm remembering correctly).

Luo Bingmei didn't have the motivation to combine the demon and human realm because he was too busy worrying about Shen Qingqiu. So, the system added Tianlang-Jun (and Zhuzhi-Lang) to fill the role of bringing those two together. He had a motivation from the very beginning, and it all started from the very origin of Luo Binghe. How the Old Palace Master was the one that ruined a pretty innocent love story.

Of course it was under the orders of the Old Palace Master that Su Xiyan and Tianlang-Jun just so happen to meet, but it was the jealousy and creepiness of that man that ruined their relationship. Su Xiyan had real feelings for Tianlang-Jun, she didn't want to have him hurt or anything. Tianlang-Jun had feelings for Su Xiyan, it wasn't like he was manipulating her into anything, he just like human culture (he's weird and a demon lord but it isn't like he was actually plotting to take over the world).

With the assumptions of the Old Palace Master and his prejudiced views on demons, he forced Su Xiyan into a "choice". Tianlang-Jun didn't know that. He lost someone he loved, albeit I'm not sure how much he loved Su Xiyan as a person, he could've also loved her more because she's just human and he is very interested in human culture. But, regardless, he still loved her. They both actually loved each other. The Old Palace Master ruined it. Su Xiyan could've had Luo Binghe and raise him with Tianlang-Jun but she couldn't.

Besides all of the stuff that happened in the past, the actions of the Old Palace Master still had effect after he died. Once what he did was exposed to Luo Bingmei and he found out who his real parents were and what happened, it drove the process of merging the two realms to be more chaotic due to the corruption of Xin Mo.

Like, the Old Palace Master is the actual villain here is what I'm saying? It wasn't exactly Tianlang-Jun, it couldn't be Shen Qingqiu anymore either. I like how this story has sides that don't explicitly include a hero or a villain (especially since we are in the perspective of our protagonist playing as the villainous character turned love interest). But the true driving force of everything happening is the Old Palace Master's actions.

The creep's obsession with Su Xiyan really messed up big time, didn't it?

(I haven't gotten to the extra where Tianlang-Jun and Su Xiyan go on a date with the iconic third wheel Zhuzhi-Lang yet, but I'll share whatever pops into my head when I get there)

#scum villain #svsss #scum villain's self saving system #svsss mxtx #mxtx svsss #shen qingqiu #tianlang-jun #zhuzhi-lang #luo binghe #luo bingmei #su xiyan #old palace master #scumbag system #mxtx fandom #svsss fandom #svsss novel #svsss novel spoilers