#this also includes people who don't change their labels at all who are aspec from trauma and dysphoria too

[redysetdare]

People who identify as Aspec because of trauma are still Aspec. People who identify as Aspec because of Dysphoria are still Aspec People who realized later on they weren't Aspec where are any less Aspec when they were identifying as it. The point is that at some point they related to and felt understood under an Aspec identity and that's all you need to be Aspec. If it changes later on then that's just how it is, it doesn't make them a faker or poser. It makes them a human being who is constantly growing and understanding more about themselves. We should be supporting these people not treating them as the enemy. If they change their minds then that's okay!

So many of us Aspec people used to think we were allo before realizing we weren't so why are we attacking others for having the same experience just with different identities?

#text #aro #ace #aroace #aspec #aromantic #asexual #this also includes people who don't change their labels at all who are aspec from trauma and dysphoria too #but the post mostly is targetting those who push the idea that these people will change their mind later #or they can be fixed from it and thus shouldn't identify as aspec #you all deserve respect and you are not our enemy #you are part of our community and we should be supporting you through your journey of self discovery #this includes other aspec identities too but I mostly see this argument used against people saying they are aro or ace #but im sure people who experienced trauma and dyphoria have also identified under other a-attractions as well due to it

[slenderboo]

putting in my two cents as an aroace hazbin fan to the whole alastor shipping debate (adding a cut below because this got long-)

before I start, it's important to remind everyone:

alastor is canonically ace and (semi)canonically aro, and that should be respected the same way we'd respect angel dust's identity as a gay man, or vaggie's as a sapphic woman.

"ace" and "aro", while also functioning as labels unto themselves, are umbrella terms for a lottt of identities. Some of which do include the ability to experience sexual and romantic attraction, in different ways and at different levels (demi, cupio, lith/lithro, grey, aro-and aceflux, the list goes on).

So, given all that, is it possible to interpret alastor as experiencing some level of romantic attraction, or sexual attraction? Of course, identities like the ones I listed above are just as valid as any other acespec and arospec identity.

So, what's the issue then? Right now, a lot of fans are using the breadth of aspec identities and experiences as a shield, to excuse them shipping him like they would an allosexual/alloromantic character.

Just to make it clear, that in itself is erasure. And I know that's a strong statement, and that there being such a broad aroace experience adds nuance to any statement you can make on that, but we have to acknowledge as a fandom that there are objectively wrong ways to handle aspec characters, both in the way we discuss them and in the way we portray them in fan works.

And before anyone says it, saying "alastor isn't real" or "fanon content won't change his canon sexuality" doesn't work when real life aspec people can't even look in a tag of a character that's supposed to represent them without seeing their identity erased. It's the way I feel attempting to engage with a lot of hazbin content, and I know a lot of my fellow aspec hazbin fans are feeling it as well.

So, what's the solution to all this? That's unfortunately kinda complicated. Everyone has a different opinion on what constitutes as erasure, what is good rep, how much benefit of the doubt we should give people, et cetera, and so everyone's solutions look different. In a way there also isn't a way to solve it, since aroace erasure is so normalized in fandom culture (not just the hazbin fandom; fandom culture as a whole) that there will always be a significant portion of fans who will ignore, erase, or otherwise deny alastor's or any other aroace character's sexuality.

So, to put my two cents on it:

My philosophy is that if you're going to ship alastor (or any aspec character for that matter), it's best to have an identity in mind for him to use as reference. For example, I think of alastor as sex-repulsed aroace, and I write him with that in mind. Whatever you pick can be a steadfast headcanon, an identity tailored to the story you want to tell, or one you want to explore in your fanwork, whether for fun or to educate yourself on it better.

What's better is that you don't even need to mention the sexuality itself in the work! Show don't tell is a great writing tool, and for alastor specifically, who canonically isn't aware of his sexuality, it works perfectly. Just simply creating with it in mind, asking yourself, "how would someone with [insert identity] experience this?" and going from there, makes a world of difference.

Just in terms of good fanfic etiquette, I'd also make sure to include it in the tags if you're posting it on ao3, just to make sure your readers know what's up and to help with filtering (I personally don't read any alastor ship fics that don't include the asexual or aromantic tag at this point). Bada bing bada boom, that's representation right there!

Since Alastor is one of very, very few ace characters in mainstream media, and even less aro characters in media period, us as a fandom creating good representation with him is really important, especially in terms of the breadth of aspec identities. We don't get much representation, so claiming he's definitively one label or another isn't productive, and hurts the community in the long run. Fanfiction is first and foremost an exploration of canon, so why not play around with what "aro" and "ace" can look like for him?

Case and point, I've seen some incredible ship fics that headcanon him as demisexual and/or demiromantic, and do a great job representing those identities. I've also seen some really good fics that portray him as sex-repulsed, and others that portray him as sex-neutral or positive. All of that is great, and again, even if it isn't directly mentioned: adding subtext, putting it in the tags, and even simply writing the fic with the sexuality in mind does wonders.

Me personally, I headcanon Alastor with the same identity as me; sex- and romance-repulsed aroace, but open to queerplatonic relationships. That doesn't mean fics that interpret him with a different aspec identity are less valid, or are interpreting him wrong. All of it is valid representation.

And that's not even getting into queerplatonic relationships, which is what I put Alastor into for my own headcanons (queerplatonic radioapple fic when). For that, please do your own research, but remember that queerplatonic relationships tend to look different for every couple. They can be poly, include kissing and physical intimacy, or look just like what most people would consider a regular friendship or regular romance.

So, can you ship aroace characters? Sure you can, as long as it isn't at the expense of their sexuality, or more accurately, the representation their sexuality gives to a historically underrepresented group.

That's pretty much it from me, please remember to support aspec fanartists and fanfic writers, and happy (early) aromantic spectrum awareness week for all my fellow arospecs!!

#not adding the aromantic or asexual tags to this #those tags shouldn't be flooded with ship discourse #so please stop doing that guys #also not joking about the queerplatonic appleradio fic #I may or may not be working on one rn but knowing my writer's block (read: seasonal depression) I won't actually finish it #their dynamic is so much fun to write let me tell you #hazbin hotel #alastor #hazbin alastor #hazbin hotel alastor #hellaverse

[frecklystars]

I never really thought about sexuality much even when the people around me started showing interest in relationships. So at first I thought I was bisexual, because I had the same amount of interest in men/women. Then I realized that gender wasn't really an important factor to me in attraction, so I called myself pansexual. Then I realized most of the people I'd ever felt attraction towards were fictional, so these days I mostly just use aspec/queer to identify myself.

All of these labels (to me) are just a tool for helping you understand yourself a little better, and you don't need to force yourself to use one you don't feel fits anymore.

I remember seeing a post on tumblr ages ago talking about identity that was like 'show me a permanent state of self' because you're constantly changing as a person as you learn.

Anyways, sorry for the rambling, just wanted to let you know you're not alone, sorry about the sexuality crisis, hope your day gets better

AWW thank you for taking the time to send this to me sweetheart. "sorry about the sexuality crisis" made me burst out laughing; I know you didn't mean it to be funny, you are being kind, but that's just funny to me that multiple people have sent me messages in my inbox/dms saying "so sorry you think you're a lesbian and it's making you spiral and cry in the middle of the night" like I just never expected people to send me a message like that haha. thank you, genuinely thank you for saying that though, because HOO i am STRUGGLING here bro... but it's ok i'll figure it out eventually <3

I have heard that's very much an aro/aspec feeling, to say "well I don't feel much preference for any gender, so maybe I'm bi/pan". I watched a video on being aro/ace and I related to some of it but not all of it entirely, so I know I'm... I'm ace, for sure. and I think I'm aro somewhat? Women™ are a big big big piece of the puzzle and the only reason why I don't feel fully aro is bc my attraction for them is There but at the same time I don't know if I feel it... as... much(?) as I am "supposed" to. or maybe my lack of physical affection/lack of feeling totally safe in a relationship is just bc of actual life experience and not like, who I am as a person? question mark???

I also think the realization that maybe I am not changing from bi into possibly lesbian, but I might not have been bi this entire time has hit me like a ton of bricks and is what's hurting me so bad. I was so confident I was bi for yeeeears, because I assumed I'd felt attraction to men, even if it was short and fleeting and practically nonexistent, but all this time I don't think I have felt attraction to men, not truly. but again -- does bisexuality have to include men? if I'm a cis woman I mean, would my bisexuality HAVE to include men or can it just be "I am attracted to literally anybody Except Men." and like, hey, maybe I haven't met enough men?? most of my experiences with men have been kind of um. uncomfortable and creepy. maybe I would feel attracted to a man in the future?? I used to joke with my other bi friends "oh my standards for men are SO HIGH, they have to meet a whole checklist of requirements for me to feel attraction to them, but for a woman all she has to do is exist and I'm in LOVE with her" and like... that could be.. a lesbian feeling sdfhldhfskldf or I'm just bi with 99.9999% attraction to women and 00.0001% attraction to other people, which might include men but like, only two unobtainable men who are celebrities (Ryan Gosling and Nick Blaemire) which don't count because they are... unobtainable celebrities. MAN WHO KNOWS!!!!! I DON'T KNOWS. is it still valid attraction to men if it's an unobtainable celebrity? It's still a real life man, right? Even if you know nothing would ever come of it? Me feeling romantically attracted (or I guess crushing lol) on a male celebrity feels just as real and big and pure and whole as me feeling romantically attracted to an obtainable non-celebrity woman standing in front of me. AGAIN, WHO KNOWSSSSS

I like how you said labels are a tool and I don't need to force myself to have one that doesn't fit anymore. I just feel really like, panicked if I don't have a label, for some reason. Maybe "WLW" or "Sapphic" can be my placeholder. I like being bi but man I don't know if I was ever bi at all if I don't feel attracted to men unless if they're celebs/fictional?? It doesn't feel like I've gradually changed into something else, it feels like I've woken up from a dream-like state where I thought I was bi but it turns out I'm actually Not. unless if, like I said, I could be bi with just, the strongest attraction to women possible LMAO. it doesn't help that I'm ace because it makes it a little more confusing to figure out. soooo many people have told me "oh it depends on who you'd sleep with" but I don't want to sleep with anyone. y'know. never ever had that urge, no matter the gender. WHY IS IT SO CONFUSINGGGG BRO

anyway thank you for sending me a message and helping me feel heard/listened to. giving you hugs and flowers 💖💐🌼🌸🌻🌷✨🌹🌺🌈✨💖💝💟🌸💘✨

#anonymous #asks

[bilesproblems]

Welcome to Mspec Lesbian Problems, an mspec lesbian blog centered around the struggles we face

New to bi lesbians? Here's some info!

About the blog:

This blog accepts mspec/bi/pan/poly/omni lesbians and is focused on positivity for us

This blog accepts lesboys and other gender variant lesbians, even if not centered on them

This blog also accepts all queer identities. Even the ones that don't make sense. That includes sex favorable aces and romance favorable aros, orchid aces and orchid aros, xenogenders, all aspecs, etc.

This blog is stanceless on syscourse, radqueers, shipcourse, self dx validity, and other discourse that isn't specifically queer discourse. I have my own opinions but I want this blog to be a safe space for all mspec lesbians even if I don't personally agree with them on other aspects of their identity, or don't agree with their opinions on what is and isn't valid. I can go have a fit about it on my personal blog.

I said before I would not explain mspec lesbians but I changed my mind I can do that. Check for explanations already posted though like pls. I don't like explaining constantly I just volunteered because I felt like some explanations were... Not as thorough as I could explain them. And sometimes my experience would be overlooked.n

Discourse won't be tolerated, this is a SAFE SPACE.

Ableism won't be tolerated either. Using words like the r-slur, c-slur (unless it's being reclaimed) psycho(path) or sociopath or psychotic as insults, narcissist as an insult, autistic as an insult, using "delulu" to water down delusions, or anything that equates disorders to character flaws.

You may submit your own struggles thru the ask machine.

About the blog runner:

I am a bi lesbian, omni lesbian, neptunic, and lunian. My only use of the split attraction model is because I am ace and arospec

I am a full moon springtide lunian/bi lesbian/omni lesbian, meaning I am not attracted to men. Exceptions may apply to partial men who are also at least partially women. But I do accept all mspec lesbians, not just the ones like me

I am bigender. I am a hypergirl and deminonbinary. I use she/her and they/them pronouns.

I believe I'm autistic, but I haven't been diagnosed

I personally identify as critinclus because I do feel I'd need to understand someone before accepting them fully, although sometimes I also think of myself as radinclus because I can get behind most people's reasoning. But even those I don't understand are included on this blog

My main account is @redtail-lol

I'm a term collector, and the transition from "normal about labels" to "almost compulsively adding more" started with being a bi lesbian.

#mspec lesbian #mspec lesbian safe #bi lesbian #bi lesbian safe #pan lesbian #poly lesbian #ply lesbian #omni lesbian #pro mspec lesbian #pro bi lesbian #mspec lesbian positivity #bi lesbian positivity #do not start discourse #or ill unbrush your teeth

[aroapl]

Do you think what i wrote here(after this question) has anything to do with possibly being aplatonic or is it something more aromantic or possibly autism related or maybe something just compellty diffrent (I just am courious whats the deal with those things about me is)?

As a kid i always told my mom that i love her. most kids do.

As a teen i kinda started to ask what even is love and i never really managed to find an answer. And i really dont like saying things that are untrue so i stoped telling my mom i love her. Somehow we ended up talking about it and she got really upset that "i dont love her" but like i dont love her cuz i dont know what love is. So i really dont get why shes so upset. I still care about her, i think? I would miss her if she dissapered or died. Tho maybe i would only miss things that she provides me (care, support). So i guess i dont really know.

Its been some years. She still seems to be a bit upset about "my child doesnt know if they love me" thing whenever it pops up. I still dont know what love means be it platonic, familair or whatevevr else.

Most of my friendships are very shared interest based. That on top the fact that my interests can change relativly fast ends up with friends i lost contact with cuz just I lost interest in talking about that particular thing and with time i just forget about that person. Even if we talked everyday. I guess i always view relationships as something kinda transactional.

I'd recommend checking out the loveless and afamilial labels/communities. Loveless is a broad label that encompasses a lot of experiences related to rejecting love as a concept or having a complicated relationship with love, and it does include people who straight up feel that they don't experience love at all in any form. Afamilial is an aspec identity that describes feeling little to no familial attraction/love. Communities for both these labels exist primarily on tumblr from what I've seen, and the loveless community in particular is very intertwined with the aro community (though being aro is not a requirement to be loveless). The tags #loveless aro and #afamilial are a good place to start, and I have the tag #loveless on this blog for all things related to being loveless as well (also hello I'm loveless myself!).

What you describe in your last paragraph seems to be a pretty common experience among aplatonics. Whether you're aplspec or not is something only you can say for certain, but based on what little you've shared, it sounds like you certainly could be.

Since you mentioned autism, it is possible that all of this part of your autism, but it also would not invalidate you being loveless or aspec if that is the case. Plenty of loveless or aspec people find that their loveless/aspec identity goes hand in hand with their neurodivergence, or even believe that it is caused entirely by their neurodivergence. That doesn't make those experiences or identities any less real or valid for them. If you would be more comfortable attributing these experiences to your autism and leaving it at that, that's perfectly fine, but these other labels are still open to you if you want them.

Best wishes to you in your questioning anon! If you'd like a loveless or aroapl person to talk to about this personally, my messages are always open (though I may be slow to respond, I'm a bit of a mess at the moment lol).

#loveless #afamilial #aplatonic #apl #aplspec #asks

[rjalker]

Nonpartnering pride flag!

[ID: Four versions of a pride flag. The first two are shaped like squares, the second two are shaped like wide rectangles.

The flag has five horizontal stripes of: medium blue, cyan, very dark grey, light magenta, and dark purple.

The first flag in each set has a large, solid white, round-tipped five pointed star in the center.

End ID.]

This flag is for people who do not want and are not seeking a partner of any kind - not sexual, not romantic, not platonic or queerplatonic or any other kinds of attraction that will no doubt be getting names in the coming years so everyone can pretend they're the new default you must at least feel in order to be happy.

(Also for the record, none of these colors have anything to do with gender. It's not blue for boys/masculine people and pink for girls / feminine people with a cheap "oh and nonbinary people are in there too I guess because all nonbinary people are transmasc or transfem or just neutral which is totally for sure what the white star means" thrown in as an afterthought. It's just blue and purple, which are the best fucking colors. Don't go applying symbology that's not there.)

also like since I guess it's a thing, yes you can use this flag if you're married for tax benefits or whatever, assuming you're just friends with the person you're married to lol.

This pride flag is public domain, meaning you can use it for literally anything you want, no credit or permission needed. Here's the archive page for the flags. "https://archive.org/details/nonpartnering-pride-flag"

Here it is icon sized:

[ID: The same flag as above, now much smaller, 100x100 pixels. End ID.]

If you do use the flag, please try to include an image description whenever possible, and if someone asks, please try to direct them to an HD version of the flag.

The longer versions of the flags should in theory be the perfect size for a header for a tumblr blog, but they change crap on this site so often it might not work anymore, or might not work on mobile.

I chose a rounded star because I wanted a star to represent being whole and complete all on your own, and gave it rounded corners because I just didn't like the way the normal five pointed star was so sharp and pointy. You can make it a pointed star if you want, though.

The colors were chosen because A)I fucking love purple and blue, B)I wanted it to sort of match the transfuckyou flag from my dream (cyan, blue, white, purple, cyan, the one with Wild Future), as in, "fuck you I will not force myself to fit into into society's moulds just because you think it's the only natural way to exist". way.

so yeah this flag is a big fuck you to amatanormativity and especially a big fuck you to the people in aspec spaces who still act like getting a partner is the most important and natural thing in the world and the only way to be happy, but they think saying this is fine now because they mean a queerplatonic partner instead of a romantic and/or sexual one.

the stripe hex codes if anyone wnats them:

blue: 6580DA

cyan: 60D6D9

dark grey: 494949

light magenta: CD6BC1

dark purple: 812F95

and fun fact. This drawing of Altera is the first use of this pride flag because I designed it in that drawing and then made the full sized version you see here. "https://rjalker.tumblr.com/post/702456141902495744/id-a-digital-drawing-showing-a-character-labeled"

#nonpartnering #nonpartnering pride flag #aroace #aroaceapl #nonplatonic #ughghg #aqueerplatonic #I'm too lazy to type out all the tags this should go in. #Rjalker makes pride flags #described images #unromanceable

[bi-sapphics]

would you mind explaining why you arent a battleaxe bi anymore? /gen

i just think exclusionists are unnecessarily mean and wasting their time building up all of that anger. i think we have bigger things to focus on. at the end of the day, pansexuals aren't hurting bisexuals as much as the power of the real world is.

i'm still critical of pansexuality's origins and the community's behavior sometimes, but like... it's unfair to make that judgement towards every individual.

it's not even just being anti-pan, really. i'm moving away from exclusionism as a whole. i'm finding my true identity and pride in labels that are frowned upon in such communities (i.e. aspec stuff). i'm also studying all perspectives and realizing that, actually, the more and more inclusive you go, the better argument you have, and my personal philosophy is that it's rooted in letting go of anger you don't need to have. i understand why exclusionists are angry, but i think they're misdirecting said anger towards their own kind and not our oppressors. yes queer is a slur, but it's definitely more widely-reclaimed than not and you can use it regularly while also respecting individual boundaries and knowing when to avoid using it in their personal spaces.

if i'm going to run a blog mostly focusing on bi+ topics, then it's only right to include all labels under the bi umbrella. after all, i totally agree with people who use multiple mspec labels at once, as if they function as more specific descriptors for their preferences (i.e. bi/pan, bi/omni, bi/poly - i myself am feeling a newfound connection to bi/omni). every book you'll read studying mspec sexuality includes these subcommunities and welcomes them with open arms. maybe some of these people do have internalized biphobia, but if they have a community that is technically the same thing identity-wise, so what?

and speaking of books, i think material reality and its physical sources of written history speak louder than random 14yo's carrds online. the books that promote bi revolutions? they're anti-lesbian-separatism. the more i look into it, the more i think it's harmful to bi women and realize nothing would have changed, positively or negatively, if it had never happened. radfems never would have had the power they do, lesbians would be much more accepting of mspec wlw participating in their own rightful culture, and pretty much all of this "lesbians vs. bi women" discourse wouldn't exist present-day. "lesbian" used to belong to us, and it was never supposed to be taken away from us in the first place. if there is no harm in bisexuality and other mspec communities existing in harmony, then there is no harm in mono and mspec lesbians existing in harmony, exactly as they did once before. lesbophobic invasive men are gonna be lesbophobic regardless of the label. i was actually reading a carrd last night that made a great argument, about how chronically-online lesbians always push for mspec lesbians to create their own label, when it should be the former who does so. lesbian was inclusive before it was exclusive and it was never supposed to be exclusive at any point in time. if lesbians can accept that bi women have a rightful access to butch/femme & dyke, then they should be able to understand where i'm getting. you can't take something from someone and then claim it was never theirs. it's literally immoral theft. so yeah, in case it wasn't obvious yet, i'm starting to lean radinclus to the point where i understand and find community with lesbianism. it just makes more and more sense as you delve deeper and deeper into what all sapphics have in common, as opposed to how we think of each other currently.

^^ i'm really scared to post that. i'm afraid of harassment before questions, but i promise you i have done so much more research on the topic than exclusionists have and could debunk pretty much any argument you (respectfully) throw my way. i'm afraid of getting called a lesbophobe by people who don't want to think differently and understand that the idea is different than what they imagine it is. if you must unfollow me then go ahead, but there is a reason i'm keeping this on the down-low. just because i'm confident enough that i'm right doesn't mean i'm confident others will be reasonable. but, there ya go, i've officially said it now. if anything, i really only plan on mentioning it on this blog (as opposed to the main purpose of @tribadeism as a sideblog of mine) for emphasizing posts regarding the history and/or relatability of sapphics, but i guess we'll see.

so, i used to be exclus-leaning, but i no longer am. i am now pro-mspec, pro-aspec, accept aces/aros who say they're queer, and am learning about and starting to lean towards radical inclusionism (with some critical thought to remain naturally, of course, don't worry - the lack of that ruins the credibility of any stance imo).

#chase answers #lgbt discourse #ex exclus #exclus mention #radfem mention #anti radfem #radinclus #radical inclusionist #inclus #inclusionist

[askanaroace]

I was wondering if I could get some input on this? All good if not.

I’ve been obsessing over gender envy and tertiary attraction (mainly aesthetic). For the record, am an orientated aroace lesbian, so I’ve never been romantically/sexually attracted to men (or anyone). But when there are drawings or pictures of cool looking guys (usually with sharp jawlines or undercuts) I feel this weird sense? I can’t tell if it’s aesthetic attraction or the fact I really want to look like them. Maybe it’s both? I dunno, it’s really hard to unpack. And I sort of feel like I’m not a real lesbian either since I think guys with specific traits look nice. sorry if this is confusing, I’m just hoping for another person’s thoughts on it.

Okay, so I have two main thoughts.

One: thinking guys with specific traits look nice is not a conflicting position to being a lesbian. As language for more diverse experiences comes out and greater visibility is achieved, so evolves our understandings of such concepts. While classically defined as 'attraction to women by a woman', there's been a lot of evolving definitions these days (largely thanks to nonbinary folk) of being a lesbian as 'non-straight attraction to women', 'non-men loving non-men', etc. It's like...how if you want to look at aromantic history, you have to look into asexual history because aromantic used to be considered more of a subset of asexuality. And if you want to look into asexual history, you have to dig into bisexual history (sorry, I used to have better sources on this but they all got tainted by people who turned out to be Not Great, but peep that asexuality and bisexuality were both defined by 'lack of preference' and so may be been sister-experiences) because bisexual used to be a term that included allo bi people and aces. And if you want to look into bisexual history, you have to look into lesbian and gay history (and if you wanted to look into lesbian history, you'd have to look into gay history). (And this example may make you think that it's been linear but it's absolutely not. Like, today, a lot of people don't like the terms FTM and MTF in regards to trans people but that used to be the terminology, and in fact lesbian not only included bisexuals and aces, it also included trans men!)

Language is messy because humans are messy, so history is messy. Etc., etc., etc. I say it a lot these days, but labels aren't strict/rigid categories handed down by some omnipotent being. They are socially defined tools of communication and they will change with the humans and societies that use them. Language is inherently flexible, at least to some degree.

I think it's amazing how much language we have developed to express ourselves regarding our identity. But I do think the downside of this has been the hyper-separation of communities, leading to such panic like yours, and the pressure to find the Perfectly Fitting Absolutely Fitting Perfect Label(TM), which also implies that all feelings can be clearly and definitively understood and articulated when, for a variety of reasons, often they really just can't be.

A "real lesbian" is simply someone who identifies as a lesbian. And identifying with a term is the only qualifier to being any gender/attraction term. There's no test out there. No diagnosis. No correct answer. Identity is self-determined, for whatever reasons a person has for identifying a way.

Let me give you an example from my personal life because I'm super proud of my sister. She's not aspec, but she is a lesbian. And until she got into a monogamous relationship, she was actively pursing and having sex with both men and women. She had sex with men because she is sexually attracted to men and liked having sex with them. However, she labels as lesbian and lesbian only because her attraction to men is not really meaningful to her. She would only be open to committed and/or romantic relationships with women, and that's the most important part of her feelings/experience to her. And you know what? No one who matters has ever had a problem with that or tried to tell her that she's not a real lesbian. Not even the men who were having sex with her. As stated above, labels are just linguistic tools. Don't let labels control you. Make the labels work for you.

Two: I think there are two main ways we can react to struggles about self-gaslighting (and even general questioning) with your identity.

The first is to run away from being the thing. You eventually beat yourself into despair that you couldn't possibly be a lesbian, so you turn your back on the identity and try to fit yourself into a box that you may fit into but doesn't feel quite right or even into a box that maybe doesn't even fit right in any meaningful way. This comes off as inherently sad, but you know what? Discovery requires exploration. If this is the path you need to take to figure yourself out better and come to terms with whatever labels, then do it!

The second is to lean into being the thing. (Disclaimer: this is how I handled coming to terms with being nonbinary and genderqueer. This method worked for me because "fake it til you make it" tends to be my defacto reaction. It's also how I conquered my phobia of dogs.) Decide "fuck the semantics". Wanting to be a specific identity matters. Honor those feelings. Practice letting yourself be that thing without beating yourself up. It's definitely a difficult skill that takes mindfulness and concentrated effort, but it can also be such a release. Claim the label you want to be. Go out and be the proudest version of that you can. You may just find down the road that you've stopped faking it and are actually feeling it.

(And ofc, leaning into either path may bring unexpected results. By running away from a term, you may indeed find another that you like more. By embracing a term, you may realize it ultimately isn't the term you like the most. None of these paths are wrong. They are all about figuring yourself out, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.)

I am only going to celebrate learning more about ourselves. That should be the purpose of these terms. Labels shouldn't be a prison. They should bring freedom. If the labels you're using don't bring that - try something else. There's a lot of paths you can take to get to whatever the end destination, and the journey is a lot more work and time than the destination, so don't be afraid to take the scenic route and make it enjoyable for yourself! There's no rush. You've got this. :)

I hope these thoughts were helpful to bringing you some level of understanding, comfort, and/or peace.

#identity #self doubt #self gaslighting #imposter syndrome #queer imposter syndrome #aroace #lesbian #aroace lesbian #aesthetic attraction #tertiary attraction #attraction #language #linguistics #labels #terms #ask #oriented aroace #exploration #questioning #anonymous

[bilesproblems]

I have a question, that I hope is in no way disrespectful I'm just lost and new to these terms...

can you explain mspec lesbians/gays?? I do much better learning from someone rather than a google result, I want to be educated ^^;

And, another question, would it be okay for myself - someone who primarily identifies as a transmale - to not want to date someone who identifies as a lesbian? Or is that bad? I in no way mean to be disrespectful when asking this, I am genuinely curious since I am just. not. attracted to the idea of dating a lesbian as a transmale,,,/gen

Of course! An mspec lesbian/mspec veldian/mspec gay is a lesbian, veldian, or gay, who is also on the multi-amoric spectrum.

Some starting definitions:

A lesbian is someone who's gender is femininely aligned, neutrally aligned, xenically aligned, or unaligned, or connected to one of those alignments in some way, who is attracted to femininely aligned genders and may or may not be attracted to neutrally, xenically, or unaligned people. This attraction is usually exclusive but it isn't always. It is heavily WLW connotated. This is a shortened version of the definition for the sake of brevity.

A veldian is someone who's gender is masculinely aligned, neutrally aligned, xenically aligned, or unaligned, or connected to one of those alignments in some way, who is attracted to masculinely aligned genders and may or may not be attracted to neutrally, xenically, or unaligned people. This attraction is usually exclusive but it isn't always. It is heavily MLM connotated. This is also a shortened version of the definition for the sake of brevity

A gay person is anyone who is attracted to genders of their own alignment, exclusively or not. This is slightly MLM connotated but isn't exclusive to any gender.

Mspec means attracted to more than one gender.

Multi- and Bi- also mean attracted to more than one gender, however they specify a type of attraction (the difference being, a heterosexual homoromantic is mspec but not multisexual). Bi as a prefix tends to be connotated towards attraction to men and women but doesn't necessarily mean that.

Pan- and Omni- both specify an attraction to all genders, however pan tends to also be an attraction regardless of gender or not factoring gender (although it doesn't have to be) while omni includes gender as a factor.

Poly- is an attraction to multiple genders, typically without factoring gender, and typically not to all genders.

So, since this the mspec lesbian blog, I will explain mspec lesbians, but it also applies to mspec veldians and mspec gays if you change the words.

There are many ways to be an mspec lesbian. The most common I've seen is split attraction. While some argue that lesbian isn't compatible with the SAM if you aren't aspec, that's bullshit and they're morons. Aro lesbians, ace lesbians, and aroace lesbians prove lesbian doesn't apply to both romantic and sexual orientation at the same time, and it's some gold star mental gymnastics to exclude biromantic lesbians and bisexual lesbians because they're only a lesbian in one form of attraction.

There's also my way of doing it: not being attracted to men or (solely) masc-aligned people at all but recognizing elsegender people as not being the same gender as women and therefore, since they are included in lesbian attraction, I can be mspec and a lesbian. Pan and omni lesbians who use it this way tend to use pan and omni to refer to all genders included under lesbian attraction instead of to all genders period.

Some people don't have split attraction and are attracted to men, however they experience attraction towards masc genders very infrequently or weakly compared to their attraction to women and potentially elsegender people. They may feel they're right between being a lesbian and being mspec, so they use both labels to communicate that. Y'know how graysexuals exist because they feel attraction, but they feel it so weakly or infrequently they almost feel asexual? That's how some mspec lesbians are!

Speaking of the asexual spectrum... Some people identify as mspec lesbians because of being on the ace or aro spectrums! I can't list all the ways that would work but we aspecs do experience attraction and favorability in different ways than allos, so those experiences can influence what labels we use.

Some people may also be bigender and use the "genders like and unlike your own" definition of bi.

Finally, there's the fact that lesbian formerly included ALL wlw and adjacent folk, and it was radfems, TERFs, and gold star lesbians who forced mspec women out because they were "tainted by men." Some mspec women wish to reclaim this historical usage and use it non-exclusively

Plus some mspec people may reclaim lesbian because it's been used to erase their mspec identity, so they take it back by embracing being mspec and a lesbian.

As for you not wanting to date a lesbian: that's okay! It's up to you as a person to decide who you're comfortable with. For some enby folk, they don't wanna be included under lesbian and they don't have to be. If you are uncomfortable dating someone who calls themselves a lesbian, don't date them! You don't have to! I wouldn't wanna date someone who called themselves monosexual because I am bigender. I'd feel misgendered too. The inclusion of transmascs in lesbian attraction or who can be lesbians isn't forceful. It just "you can be part of this if you want" and not "you HAVE to be included in this!!" Lesbian is very much "exclusively wlw" connotated, and connotations are important parts of language. Like, shiny vs dazzling. Clever vs cunning vs manipulative. They may all mean the same thing by a definition but beyond that definition they have a meaning that's harder to define. You will never be in the wrong for your discomfort including yourself in lesbian attraction due to being transmasc and the connotations of lesbian. It's only wrong when you start dictating who can or can't be a lesbian or who lesbians can be attracted to based on your discomforts.

#mspec lesbian #bi lesbian #mspec lesbian safe #bi lesbian safe #pro bi lesbian #pro mspec lesbian #explanation