i feel very mixed on shiv's ending, particularly her choice to return to tom -- i think it makes sense from a thematic/character arc perspective and is a powerful yet devastating indictment of both shiv and the world that created her as well as showing that the cycle of abuse will always continue to cycle, that shiv will become her mother etc, but i also think it does not make sense from a character/internal logic perspective. it's a choice that makes sense from the writers, but not from shiv, not yet. it could've been a brilliant ending to her character, but is tainted for me by the less-than-ideal execution of it, which felt very rushed, making shiv's final submission to tom feel forced by the show rather than forced by the situation or honest to her character. the ending is not inherently misogynistic from the writers' side as i've seen some criticisms claim (it is a dark but real portrayal of misogyny within capitalist society and how it's internalized within the white women who end up at the hips of the CEOs who run it), but i do understand how it could feel that way. the show fails at building up to (and thus convincing us) that the version of shiv we currently know would so immediately subject herself to her mother's fate, so instead of it feeling like shiv's hand was forced by patriarchy to place herself into her worst nightmare, it instead feels like the show itself was the thing that forced shiv to take that route, which does leave a sour taste in the mouth. it doesn't feel like the result of a choice shiv would make or the impact of patriarchal society bearing down, it just feels rushed and thus wrong. shiv would've benefitted immensely from a few more episodes or even just a few scenes dedicated to teasing out her newfound willingness to subject herself to immense disrespect in order to remain close to power, but given that her entire character has always been defined by her inability to do just that unless forced to (which i don't think she was in this situation as she could've easily not waited in the car for tom, not put her hand in his, but she did), her return to tom feels hard to comprehend, and her near immediate submission to him hard to stomach.
(read more under the cut because jesus christ did this get long)
in my mind, at least, i've always understood shiv as being respect-driven rather than power-driven -- she wants power, yes, but more than anything she wants to be taken seriously and respected and seen as a legitimate player, and time and time again we've seen her blow up situations that would've been very advantageous long-term because she felt disrespected and needed to speak up and force people to take her seriously (which, ironically, typically results in the opposite). shiv's overarching goal is power, but her immediate necessity is always respect. her dignity is her number one priority at any given moment, even when it shouldn't be, even when it stops her from attaining the success and power she wants. i can kind of understand shiv going against kendall because of this -- she's always had a very, very narrow lens whenever she feels like she's being disrespected, and even though it is infinitely more humiliating for your (somewhat ex) husband to betray you and boot you out of the CEO position behind your back at the behest of your supposed closest ally (and for you to still vote for them after that!!!) than it is for you to magnanimously allow your brother to be CEO (which would publicly be seen as a choice, as telly etc said - sibs need to stand united behind one chosen CEO - rather than shiv being out of the loop and fucked to infinity), the narrowness of her vision upon seeing kendall about to win makes it impossible for her to think about that legitimately. it's not just jealousy, it's indignity: shiv feels she earned CEO through her machinations with mattson and feels genuinely sick seeing the loganified kendall grinning at the head of the table, hearing his "that's fucking right" and witnessing his cocky entitlement to the job that belonged to her. so, she does what she always does when she feels disrespected, when she feels her dignity is at stake, and impulsively blows everything to fuck, including her own best interests. that makes sense for shiv, at least somewhat -- i still think that as much as she wouldn't want ken as CEO she'd feel like at least w that outcome she'd be seen as a player and a deciding factor, whereas with mattson/tom she'd be viewed as a pathetic fucked-over nothing woman pawn etc (a situation of unparalleled indignity imo), but i can rationalize her choice to go against ken anyways as being part of the narrowed field of vision she always gets upon feeling disrespected by men in her life that makes it impossible for her to think strategically (and i guess even though the disrespect was greater and more humiliating from tom/mattson than ken, ken was the most recent most present and most lifelong source so that's all she could focus on; seeing him like logan was too much to bear). it's hard to imagine shiv publicly throwing her vote behind two men who publicly fucked her as humiliatingly as mattson and tom just did, even if the other option is kendall, but i think that's part of it -- it's fundamentally illogical, even from her disrespect-lens, because there's just something about kendall specifically being in charge that she's never been able to stomach. it's visceral and impulsive. it's not meant to make "sense." it's just what she feels she has to do to preserve her own dignity, even though it works directly against those same interests realistically. it wasn't executed very well, making it hard to entirely buy it given just how publicly humiliating the alternative is, but it can still be chalked up to her historically one-track-mind when it comes to indignity by the hands of kendall in particular. it's a last-ditch attempt for shiv to at least feel like she's maintaining her dignity, her self-respect, as counterintuitive as it actually is. it makes sense. i can stomach it.
again, shiv's fatal flaw (in logan's eyes and aside from her original sin of being a woman) has always, always been her inability to shut up and make the smart move in situations where she feels she's being disrespected or not taken seriously. if shiv stayed quiet during that dinner with the pierces, maybe she would've been logan's CEO, but no, she couldn't stop herself, she needed to feel she was being taken seriously, she burst out 'cmon, dad, just tell them it's going to be me.' she is unable to play it smart, to keep quiet, to win when winning means perceived disrespect. she's allergic to it. even on a personal level, she shoots herself in the foot constantly because of this: she is unable to let herself have the things she wants because she can't put herself in positions that open her up to disrespect and perceived inferiority. she can't be vulnerable because she needs to be respected. tom asks her if he could 'try to make love to her' in episode one of this season, and even though she clearly wants to, she says 'no, i don't think so, tom.' tom tells her he 'wants her, wants this' back in episode six, and even though she clearly wants that too, she draws back and says 'well then you shouldn't have betrayed me.' shiv is fundamentally incapable of allowing herself to remain in possibly advantageous situations when she feels at risk of being seen as lesser, of being disrespected, of being perceived as weak. that is her response to patriarchy. when patriarchal forces bear down, shiv is unable to grin and bare it -- she has a short fuse, a sharp tongue, and an inability to entertain even a second of being treated like The Woman, of being looked down upon, especially when it's for her gender. it's the one thing she cannot do, cannot let herself do, and it's why she fails to "win" over and over and over again. she shoots herself in the foot the second her patriarchy disrespect sensors tingle. she makes the wrong choice, the dumb choice, the one that makes her feel like she stood up for herself in the moment but ends up leaving her powerless and helpless in the end. that's the only explanation for why she chose to vote against kendall (the clearly better option for her long-term as she'd 1) be respected as part of the decision, as someone who helped choose the CEO rather than a Woman who got fucked over and had the door slammed in her face by her husband and close ally simply because she possessed a womb, and 2) probably be head of ATN or some other area of waystar, she'd have actual power within the company and be respected as a legitimate source of power rather than the CEO-to-be made CEO's humiliated wife -- if she was capable of making the smart, selfish choice in terms of power instead of having a hair-trigger reaction to gendered disrespect and cocky male superiority, she would have voted kendall. but she is not capable of doing that. she never has been. so she voted tom and mattson.
so what i still cannot for the life of me understand is what would compel this shiv, the one who cannot stomach indignity even when power's on the line, to immediately return to tom's side the second he beckons her, which is like five minutes after he becomes CEO (the job she was promised) by mattson (who gave it to tom instead of shiv because 'why get the baby lady if i can get the man who put the baby inside her?'). it makes perfect, cruel, devastating sense from a show perspective, and that's what most people are talking about, understandably. it's a devastating yet unavoidable, inevitable outcome. she's left with no other choice once she makes the decision against kendall, and patriarchy compels her to play the good wife to stay close to power. except, like... she does still have a choice. she does not have to go back to tom's car. she does not have to sit patiently waiting for him. she does not have to quietly congratulate him on his victory. she does not have to place her hand in his. these are all choices she made very voluntary. they're choices between maintaining her dignity and self-respect at the cost of future power versus maintaining the potential for future power at the cost of her dignity and self-respect -- the classic siobhan roy conundrum. she's been faced with it time and time again (even just five minutes prior with kendall) and she has never, not once, chosen the latter of her own volition. she hasn't been able to. that's her fatal flaw. maybe i could stomach her going back to tom if she didn't congratulate him, didn't place her hand in his when he expectantly held his out -- then some dignity would be preserved, maybe. but her complete and total submission for the sake of future power does not make sense with her lifelong inability to do just that. it makes sense that this would be her eventual endpoint, but we have seen nothing that implies shiv would so willingly subject herself to this feminine submission of wife and mother before person or source of power, to the complete and utter humiliation of being the quiet wife at the side of the man who knifed her in the back (and notably handed said knife by the man she thought her closest ally) in order to steal the job she fought for her entire life and, in her opinion, had earned. maybe she would come back to him eventually, for love or (more likely) for power, but it is incredibly hard to believe that shiv 'impulsive when faced with indignity' roy would be capable of immediately and publicly playing the role of the good wife after such intense and public humiliation at the hands of her husband.
really, the way i feel about the shiv ending is similar to how i feel about the daenerys ending -- unlike most people, i really wasn't that against the daenerys outcome. i thought it made a lot of sense and was interesting, devastating, and fascinating. i thought there had been a few signs all along and that that ending for her would make sense and be far more interesting than a Hooray ! Girlboss ! ending. however, it was poorly executed -- it was rushed. it did not make sense from where daenerys was at that point in the text. it could've worked, it could've worked brilliantly, but it needed more time to build and fester in order for her ultimate turn to feel earned rather than forced for the sake of the point the writers wanted to make. that's kind of how i feel about shiv. i get the ending and i don't think it's inherently bad or misogynistic or anything, but it feels like the writers saw the possibility for a shiv 'mommed' ending and immediately took it, with little regard to what actually made sense for shiv herself to do in that moment. outcome > character. that's frustrating for me particularly for succession because my like number one reason for adoring succession as much as i do is their consistent refusal to operate the way most media does (using the characters as instruments to achieve the plot/outcome the writers want), instead prioritizing following the characters themselves in a way that feels honest and real. it's character-driven, not plot or ending driven. i think that this fell by the wayside a few times in the latter half of this season simply because there was so much that needed to happen in such a short space of time (especially during the finale), but in my opinion, at least, the most egregious case is shiv. given more time, more development, more build-up, the last shot of her hand in tom's would've struck the chord the writers wanted it to -- and for some people, it did anyways! but for me, it rang out and fell nauseatingly flat. it felt hollow and wrong and unearned. shiv could end up becoming her mother, that feels entirely possible, but not in this particular sense, not yet. in what world would siobhan roy willingly choose to be seen as nothing more than a woman hanging off her husband's arm, especially when said husband had publicly humiliated her and ruined her entire life just five minutes prior? when, just five (metaphorical) minutes prior, she was the one poised to be CEO and everyone knew it? when now everyone will see her on tom's arm and whisper and gawk? she has become her worst fear, yes, but unlike kendall, it does not feel earned. it does not feel like she has actually become her worst fear. it feels like the show forced her to. not patriarchy or the situation or her own desire for power, but the show itself. that's what feels so shitty.
i wouldn't necessarily call the writing misogynistic as a result of this, as it's less a flaw of misogyny and more a flaw of bad, rushed writing that could happen to any character. it's the same as with daenerys -- although (somewhat unlike succession) there were many, many aspects of GoT's writing that were deeply misogynistic, especially in the last season (just look at fucking brienne), the core issue with the daenerys plotline is not one of misogyny but of time. they did not give daenerys the time needed to become the version of herself seen burning down the city. that could've easily been a focus of previous episodes, but it wasn't. they simply did not develop her enough for that turn to make sense yet. it could make sense, hypothetically, at some point down the line, but at that point it felt sudden, off-putting, and wrong. shiv could easily become her mother. that's been made evident especially regarding her relationship to pregnancy/children, love, and vulnerability (or the lack thereof). but for this ending to make sense, we would have needed to see signs of shiv imitating her mother's willingness to be relegated to the sidelines, to bring out the food while the men eat and make deals, in order to remain tangential to power. that is a concession shiv roy had never been willing to make prior to the last five minutes of the entire show. other signs of shiv imitating caroline or falling prey to patriarchal norms throughout the show are not enough to undo shiv's fundamental refusal to weather gender-related indignity even when doing so would benefit her. in my opinion, that's why the final five minutes of shiv's plotline were so unsatisfying.
shiv could become her mother, and her ending could be a devastating portrayal of the inability for even rich white women to escape their original sin of being a woman in a man's world, as well as a dark, ironic criticism of both women like shiv and the patriarchal world that breeds them into existence. but because the show did not develop shiv in this particular direction and because her entire character thus far has been defined by her self-destructive insistence on being respected at all costs, shiv's ending did not land the way it could've, or should've.
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I think praising someone (Mongie) considering her incredibly racist comments and disrespectful behavior towards nonwhite fans, simply because she isn’t Rachel, is a bit gross
? I mean, yeah I agree with you, she's acted very immaturely and cruel towards her nonwhite fans. I'm assuming this has to do with my post talking about mongie's announcements at NYCC with her getting an anime? (if not please link me to the specific post for context). I don't really see any of that as 'praising her', more so just acknowledging the fact that she at least had the balls to step away from WT when she knew it wasn't working for her anymore, and the fact that she's managed to succeed separate from WT thus proving that it is, in fact, possible to succeed in this industry without relying on one single platform. The comparison to Rachel was more so just to prove a point that LO is in development hell lmao
I was more so just trying to praise the action in and of itself, not praising mongie for being a good person. I'm very aware of and have talked about her issues involving her racist opinions (the Vicky incident especially), I don't think her not being Rachel makes her a good person or good creator by default and that's not the point I was trying to get across. I'm not interested in continuing to read her work (like with LO I used to be a huge fan of Let's Play until it fell tf off in S3, then I found out about all the racism) but I can acknowledge the fact that she found a way to break out of the mould of Webtoons because I think that's something that should be talked about so that others can see it is possible to survive outside of Webtoons (not just for the aspiring creators, but also for the Originals creators who have spoken up about feeling 'stuck' with Webtoons because they don't feel like they can succeed without WT). It's just a shame it was, y'know, the person who has treated her fanbase like shit and acted out over very valid criticisms of her depictions of nonwhite characters. That's pretty much all I was trying to get across, it's not much more complicated than that lmao Weird analogy but it's like when you smell something cooking that smells really good and then you find out that it involves ingredients you can't stand LOL
But hey, you do raise a good point that highlighting the success of someone who's shitty towards their readers and how they write nonwhite characters is just giving them more press and recognition, so let's use this opportunity to highlight a not problematic creator who also found success in this industry while never once being an Originals creator - Alice Oseman! Heartstopper is wonderful and beautifully written especially in its characterizations and depictions of queer relationships and identities, the Netflix adaption is very warm and comforting to watch, and Alice herself seems like someone who I'd love to have coffee with if I ever had the chance. Go read/watch Heartstopper y'all , and remember to include non-Originals creators in your search for good comics to read <3 I'll probably make an actual post about Heartstopper sometime because I still need to watch the second season of the show and I'm sure I'll have plenty to gush about after I watch it just like I did with the first :' )
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quickfire thoughts on fall 2023 now that everything i'm watching has had at least three eps out
EXCELLENT
sousou no frieren: still very easily anime of the season, beautiful in visuals and in story. a quiet, subtle look at loss and grief, and life continuing beyond that. the structure is working perfectly imo, it never feels like there are too many or not enough flashbacks, i feel connected at all times to both the present day party and the himmel-era party
migi to dali: still doing an exceptional job of balancing creepy and funny, i said before that the only thing i can think of with a remotely similar vibe is the movie hot fuzz and while i think there's a different flavor of comedy here, i still stand by that (and that's a compliment bc hot fuzz is an excellent movie)
kamonohashi ron no kindan suiri: although i wouldn't say this is mind-blowingly outstanding in any single way, it's very well-done in just about every conceivable way and comes together as an extremely solid series
BORDERLINE EXCELLENT
overtake: after four episodes i'm so tempted to put it with the 'excellent' shows but have to admit it's just not objectively on that level, it is subjectively one of my current favorites of the season though. silly at times, fairly simple story, but really effectively done so far
ADORABLE
s rank musume: feel like this one is largely going to slip through the cracks because it looks like your typical fantasy-action/adventure series, but doesn't stand out in that genre. the cute/soothing family moments are what stand out to me, but understandably that's not what most viewers of the genre are looking for. remains to be seen if a more action-y plot will build up, have doubts about how effective that will be
yuzuki-san chi no yon kyoudai: VERY CUTE with some very real moments and struggles, the cr subs debacle in the first ep however did it no favors
atarashii joushi wa dotennen: VERY CUTE i almost wish they'd cast literally anyone except umechan for shirosaki bc with him the similarities to cool doji danshi are just too much lmao however umechan is in fact perfect for this character so why not let him play it twice i guess
hoshikuzu telepath: moe yuri that isn't afraid to say rocket science is for autistic lesbians, what could be better?
wataoshi: YURI OF THE SEASON SORRY HOSHIKUZU TELEPATH HERE'S SOMETHING THAT COULD BE BETTER i actually would put these two on a similar tier but wataoshi gets the edge for me because rae is so unapologetically, exuberantly gay and that is just so nice to see
SEQUELS
houkago shounen hanako-kun: tragically only four half-length episodes but it's nice to see these kids again, ogata megumi's hanako voice just hits in a way the jjk yuuta voice doesn't, for me, so very glad to hear it again
arknights s2: i'm liking the art even more than i did in s1? not sure if it's actually changed/improved, and imo s1 was already good, but anyway just really enjoying seeing all the faves moving and speaking!
spy x family s2: still cute of course what more can i say
b-project s3: MAN I'M TORN i don't dislike this season (we are getting so many kitakore shots) but i am so stressed out for tsubasa and i just want to see her catch a break! i'm sure the season will end in an uplifting way, but all the stress she's under right now makes me want to punch things
dead mount death play s2: it was good and is somehow still getting better, s2e3 which just came out is one of the best yet imo
GOOD FOR THE ACTION BUT NOT TERRIBLY MUCH ELSE
undead unluck: i kind of... don't like anyone here lmao but the over-the-top, high-octane action is not badly animated, it's just not gripping me on any level beyond that. it does however have the op of the season
ragna crimson: again it's failing to get me really invested in the story/characters but the action is not bad i guess, cast for this one is absurdly stacked so i'm not going anywhere
shangri-la frontier: this one's doing a GREAT job with its pacing and action imo, it's introducing the game mechanics in a way that doesn't feel too fast or too slow. only issue is there really... doesn't seem to be any stakes? like at all? which is not a problem for me personally, it just feels a bit like we're waiting for another shoe to drop
WATCHABLE BUT...
bullbuster: i'm kind of vibing with this after three episodes but i really can't imagine it finding an audience, it's not mech enough to really appeal to mech fans and it's not... typical office drama enough to appeal to typical office fans. it's a strange little combo that just happens to work for me, personally
NOT GOOD BUT I LOVE IT
kawagoe boys sing: this is a ridiculous series, i would say not as wild as number24 but kind of getting there. like number24 but more vanilla, less homoerotic. i loved number24 and I'M LOVING THIS TOO there are some genuinely interesting characters already and though i still currently want to punt kick that teacher into the sun i remain cautiously optimistic that he'll see some character development. at some point. maybe
NOT GOOD. JUST NOT GOOD. SORRY.
bokura no ameiro protocol: really feels like some late-2000s/early-2010s male wish fulfillment dramedy. lots of weird and unnecessary het nonsense going on. honestly would consider dropping if it were 24 episodes but since it's only 12 i guess i'll stick it out. for kimuryo. who is unfortunately playing such a rancid character
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