Its so funny that Makoto gets such an awful rep (usually bc of her treatment of Futaba), but going through the game again, Makoto is the one who leads the conversation into getting her to open up for the palace door. She immediately offers up the idea of just being honest with Futaba; no lies or soft words, just straight facts in a calm voice. She knew Futaba wanted the change of heart, badly enough that shed listen without having to be convinced by force. And when Futaba panics about having to open up, Makoto makes sure she has no chance of backing out (‘give me time to open the door’ ‘ten seconds’ ‘WHAT???!’). Its for her own good!!
I think it can come across as mean and overbearing and even insensitive, especially if you are someone who is sees themself IN Futaba, but Makoto is both incredibly caring, sisterly, and understanding during the entirety of her arc. Like most characters, fandom seems to completely warp and exaggerate very specific moments and traits and sum up entire personalities bc of it. Ryuji and him being stupid; Ann and her being loud and mean; Yusuke being dumb as shit and singleminded for NO discernible reason, etc etc. People took the snooping and her one vaguely insensitive comment (about futaba and her whole Thing) and decided that she was a cunt and a bitch that couldnt be reasoned with.
Its so bizarre. Im aware that every piece of media w vaguely assertive girls has this issue (Sakura, Katara, Aqua, etc etc) but its still crazy that this is prevalent. Shes like the direct mirror of Goro and he does not get this specific kind of hate (usually its ‘he backstabbed and blackmailed us so i hate him’). Sorry. I need to be a Makoto Apologist to protect her from the rest of the world. My girl did nothing wrong shes just weird. She thought she could fight a mafia boss and she was RIGHT! She WON!!!!
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Shinjiham is cute when it’s romantic but tbh I think i vastly prefer the idea of them being best friends instead. Like, neither of them really saw it coming and weren’t really looking to get another best friend (Shinji has Akihiko, Kotone has Junpei and Yukari respectively) but it happens anyway. Kotone takes a liking to Shinji much faster than she does anyone else and I’d say a big reason is just the fact that he’s so reserved that it allows Kotone to do most of the talking while he just listens and they love this arrangement cuz Kotone doesn’t get to talk about her own interests very much. Though I think some of her needs to talk to Shinji stems from this insecurity that he isn’t happy in the group and she has this people pleasing problem and wants everyone to be happy so she makes a much bigger effort to talk to Shinji. And it’s very unfortunate because Shinji intentionally acts cold and distant because he doesn’t want to form any attachments because he wants to die soon, but aaaaaaaagh dammit this girl just keeps talking to him and being sweet and encouraging him to engage in his interests and share them with the others and he just can’t seem to say no when she’s got those damn puppy eyes. And Kotone is just able to get him out of his shell by being persistent but not in an overwhelming way, she’s very cheerful and supportive of him. And Shinji is able to offer her support by encouraging her to talk about herself and by making sure she’s taking care of herself. They just click really well and make such a positive dent in each other’s lives and it’s all about basic acts of kindness going a long way you know?
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on the other hand though i find it very funny & relatable on all sides that marcy accidentally told sasha a spoiler about her favorite movie and sasha said “idc!” when what she meant was “it’s fine i don’t actually care that you told me that spoiler bc i don’t particularly care about the movie and i’m watching it because you’re my friend and i care about you instead. it’s whatever lol” and marcy heard “idc!” and interpreted it as “she doesn’t care about the movie therefore she has no interest in me as a person or a friend i’m lame and a loser :(” meanwhile anne was just like “wow i sure hope marcy doesn’t fall on top of the tv”
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random but is anyone else into yosurise but in a doomed kind of way. like kind of one sided. like a yosuke is into rise in a puppydog kind of way and rise keeps trying to find a relationship but can’t and finally decides to give yosuke a try because at least he’s a friend and she knows he won’t try to take advantage of her being an idol etc. And yosuke is ECSTATIC and wants to give her the world but in an unsustainable kind of way, a desperate “i don’t deserve her but she’s giving me a chance and i need to do anything i can to keep her happy” kind of way. And rise is so flattered and like yosuke is nice but she can’t match that dedication, no one can or should, but it’s all so one sided and she feels so guilty about that but she doesn’t want to break his heart or be “mean”. all while yosuke is becoming almost self destructive by trying to give her “what she deserves” but it’s an unhealthy level of dedication and it’s honestly hurting both of them
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your thoughts on the cut jackienat scene are everything and it's really nice to see someone else get it. the discourse from the scene has been draining enough because people don't think it was cut for being out of character when that seems to be the case
also, happy belated!
i'm glad to hear that you ( and others ) agree! honestly, i was quite nervous to post my thoughts on the matter in the main tag, considering how crazy fandom spaces can get nowadays, but i felt so strongly about this in particular that i couldn't help it. my main issue with the discussion surrounding this deleted scene is the fact that it feels extremely pointed. for the last few months, jackienat as a romantic relationship and as a platonic pairing has been gaining steady traction ; they've become a staple to most fics as an essential dynamic and something that heavily matters to both characters. besides shaunajackie it's easily the second most popular ship for jackie, and in a way i think that's the problem. ever since gaining more popularity, there's been very odd comments thrown it's way? people taking every given opportunity to claim they don't see the 'jackienat romantic vision' on edits, saying it would never be a thing because of jackie's one slut shaming comment about natalie, etc etc. before this deleted scene dropped there clearly were handfuls of people who would do anything to tear this dynamic down and then they finally got the biggest chance to do so ... and they did! i've seen people call jackienat's whole dynamic 'completely fanon', people saying this was a satisfying scene to them because of jackienat shippers disliking shaunajackie, and excuses after excuses as to why this scene is, in fact, canon and why it works. overall it was just saddening to see? just feels like a good majority of yellowjackets fans see jackie as shauna's property rather than a fictional character people can do whatever with, so the idea of her having a relationship with natalie quickly became this threat that they had to belittle and claim as ooc at every given opportunity. which is weird! considering shauna has so many other ships that don't include jackie at all. it's also a little amusing since a good chunk of these people happen to ship shaunanat, most of them quickly rallying behind the 'nat pointing a gun at a pregnant shauna' scene as shipping fodder. don't think i've seen anyone saying 'oh shaunanats lost with this one' despite the heap of comments saying this for jackienat.
point is : i find the intent behind people's talk for this scene to be rather weird more than i find the scene itself to be sad or despairing. simply because it is just not canon. when scenes are cut for time, they've usually been filmed first -- considering that said scenes made it into the final, 100% solid script. this is true for the shauna and adam bdsm scene because we've seen clips of that in the actual show, meaning they filmed it and just cut it for time. same thing with a lot of s2's cut for time scenes! lots of the actresses and actors said these moments had been filmed but just didn't make the final cut. to me this signifies a time issue to some degree, especially given how long some of these scenes would've been! but the jackienat thing would've been a couple seconds tops? it was nothing more than jackie sitting outside and then the two of them passing her all while nat gives her a scathing, hateful look. considering we see shots of jackie sitting by herself with the cabin's front door in view, this would've been fairly easy to accomplish! i don't think people get that, per se. which to me signifies it was cut from the script before they started filming, or that by the time they got to the finale they saw this as ooc. idk. it just doesn't make sense for this to be cut for 'time issues' like the way some people are trying to argue. and even if this was the case, it proves that the writers deemed this moment as something unimportant enough to not include.
also, i don't see why this is the be all end all of jackienat either. is it bad to say this scene would've made me like them more? picturing this scene as canon and then having to watch natalie's anguish in s2 ep3 makes her guilt all the more agonizing to me, honestly. it was already such a hard hitting scene : seeing nat treat jackie's remains with respect, to see her shed her walls and be vulnerable with someone she didn't know well but cared for, and to get a peek into the fact she feels so guilty because, naturally, natalie sees this as her fault. they ate jackie because she couldn't find food fast enough. they killed her because she hadn't been there. these are things nat doesn't need to feel guilt and shame over, because jackie wasn't her responsibility or her friend, but she feels them anyway and she feels them intensely. now imagining this scene in a world where the deleted part was canon? awful! those emotions would've been way more heightened, all those personal blames would've had a fraction of truth to them, and natalie would be forced to acknowledge that when someone needed her help, she had just left them behind in the cold. something which would also intensify the pain of her watching javi drown in freezing water all while crying out to her ... a moment which she'd be wearing jackie's necklace. also, i'd find it kind of interesting that it'd be implied natalie has all these complexities and personal hatred over letting jackie taylor die just like shauna. they'd be the two who take her passing the hardest, the ones who blame themselves more than anyone else. to me that's just gayer than what we got canonically lol. but in turn, i think this could've been another reason why it was cut? this guilt and shame and hate was something reserved for shauna alone, because it's so pivotal to her character and growth, to the point that the writers couldn't let anyone really share that same feeling. it would've taken away from shaunajackie, i think, and what makes them special. if natalie genuinely had walked past jackie out of hate only for her to die the next morning, i believe we would've seen this guilt permanently etched into her character from the beginning. people forget just how quickly nat is to blame herself for things! and be very obvious about that blame! just feels like we would've known if natalie had left jackie out there on purpose, which isn't something we know at all in regards to the actual show.
anyway! i've rambled on quite enough. to me, this scene isn't that bad at all, and i don't think this takes away from the potential of jackienat whatsoever. there's really no evidence that it does! even in the worst case scenario of this scene being canon, it just makes the dynamic much more tragic, which fans eat up on this show. and at the end of the day i wouldn't give the discussions much attention, considering most peoples reasons for wanting this scene to be canon are very petty.
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