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bakuhatsufallinlove · 1 month

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Does Izuku Think His Feelings For Katsuki Are Gross? (or, DvK2's Endless Emporium of Nuance)

This is a pretty common sentiment I see repeated, and we all know the source of it: Deku vs. Kacchan 2.

Original Japanese and official English translation.

Crunchyroll subtitles

In one translation, Izuku expresses discomfort over this topic; in the other, he outright declares it to be gross.

That is quite the difference. I gotta say, Crunchyroll’s direct “This is gross” kind of shocks me, because it functionally ignores the key adverb “sasuga ni” and translates the line the same as you would if he hadn’t said it at all. The official manga translator, on the other hand, clearly made a decision about what Izuku meant by that phrase and then dispersed that meaning across the line as a whole.

So I understand why people have this straight-forward interpretation.

I’m here to offer some linguistic nuance, because my main problem with “Izuku thinks his feelings are gross” is not that it is completely wrong. It’s that it isn’t the whole story.

There are two really important phrases to take into account: kimi ni wa ienai and sasuga ni.

To illustrate their meaning, let’s split the line into two sections:

Note: Grammatically, kara belongs in the first section. I’m lumping it into the second section for the sake of isolating the core ideas expressed in the first section and maintaining clarity in the second.

Now we’re going to break the sections down into their constituent parts. This looks like a verbatim nightmare of a translation, because it is, but trust me, it’s a useful exercise.

Kara links the two sections by showing that the first section directly causes the second. Something worth noting is that Izuku does not use past tense here—he uses present tense and indicates a continuous, unchanged state. He has not been able to before and still cannot tell this to Katsuki. I would argue this also suggests he thinks the circumstances will not change for the foreseeable future.

Important Phrase #1: kimi ni wa ienai

Ienai is the negative potential form of “to say,” which means it is not possible for him to say it. Iwanai, on the other hand, is the negative present tense, and if he had used iwanai instead, that might suggest that he has some choice in the matter. Examples in English might be, “That’s why I don’t tell you this,” “That’s why I’m not telling you this,” and “That’s why I haven’t told you this,” which all express intentional withholding despite opportunity. To use a form that specifically denies the possibility serves to center limitation, regardless of desire.

The combination of the two particles ni and wa are used to emphasize, compare, and contrast. This is extremely telling just on its own. Izuku is emphasizing the fact that, compared to everyone he could possibly tell, he cannot tell Katsuki this. He might be able to tell other people, but when it comes to Katsuki, he cannot. Ienai does not specify where the limitation stems from, but ni wa sure implies it.

Now let’s dig into the phrase that does the most heavy-lifting in the first section.

Important Phrase #2: sasuga ni

Sasuga ni is the adverb Izuku attaches to the adjective kimochi warui (gross or creepy). It is typically translated “as expected” because this kind of adverb sounds awkward in English. “This is expectedly gross” is not a sentence people say much. You might also see it translated “as I thought,” “naturally,” “obviously,” or “indeed.”

And there is something interesting here: Izuku uses a second word that means “as expected” on this page.

Yappari, which can also be translated as “in the end,” “sure enough,” or “after all is said and done.”

I researched the nuances of these two phrases, synthesizing definitions and examples from four different Japanese dictionaries/encyclopedias and two forum boards for language tutoring from native speakers. My conclusions as related to their usage here:

Yappari indicates:

an outcome that was expected (example: “I tried, but sure enough, I failed.”)

something that remains unchanged [in the state it was previously or in other circumstances]

a situation where, no matter how you think about it, you end up with the same result (example: “I was really torn over it, but in the end I gave up on going.”)

Sasuga ni indicates:

[you, the speaker] must acknowledge that this is the natural result of the situation up to this point (example: “they grew up in a big family, so naturally they are good with kids.”)

something exceeds the permissible range, or that it may be permissible under certain conditions, but not others (example: “no matter how nice a guy he is, if he was accused of something unfairly, he’s bound to get angry.”)

You can see the meanings overlap, but the sentiments are a bit different. I saw someone learning Japanese say that every time they used one of these phrases, native speakers told them they should have used the other one instead. Another learner responded that, from their observations, the distinction appeared to be that yappari is used when the speaker had personally thought about and expected this outcome, while sasuga ni suggests that everyone would agree with this statement.

I’m not sure this is true across the board; usage always varies, even among native speakers, so generalizations are only useful up to a point, but I have to admit, a bunch of little things I noticed in my research do support this line of thinking.

If yappari tends to be more reflective of the speaker’s personal thoughts and expectations, sasuga ni’s “acknowledgment of a natural result” could indeed imply external validation. This is true of the equivalent English words, at least: naturally and obviously both suggest that any reasonable person would accept it as fact.

In fact, permissible as an idea kind of hinges on social norms—what is reasonable for someone to put up with? What behaviors sit within the realms of welcome, allowable, or excusable based on your relationship?

In my opinion, Izuku feels like he cannot say this to Katsuki because it exceeds the bounds of what is permissible between them. If sasuga ni implies Izuku feels sure that anyone would agree with his assessment, Katsuki is absolutely included in that.

Izuku is not saying, “I alone think this is gross, so I can’t tell you.”

He is saying, “Considering everything that has happened between us up till now, you would obviously see this as gross, so I can’t tell you.” Its grossness is a natural result of the situation—their history, the way their relationship fell apart, the way Katsuki lashes out, how he can barely stand Izuku’s presence, let alone his emotional honesty.

Chapter 10, during Deku vs. Kacchan 1

But remember that this sentence is a fragment: the subject of Izuku’s sentence is revealed in the second half, and it is the fact that he runs his mouth when he wants to win more than he wants to save.

This is what is gross. Izuku acknowledges that the behavior itself is unpleasant, and that any reasonable person would agree with that. His whole identity as a hero is based on saving people, so he feels some real discomfort when he has to recognize that sometimes he just wants to win. In fact, he can want victory so much that it supersedes his desire to help people.

Izuku has intentionally emulated Katsuki’s practical tactics, but this is about instinctive response. He wasn’t standing there facing Muscular, thinking the winning move was definitely to scream, “shut up.” He was furious, so he wanted to win and make that guy shut up.

When the scale tips, he acts out. He talks shit. He screams at people and insults them, because that’s what Katsuki does. These are all unacceptable behaviors, socially-speaking. Katsuki constantly and intentionally acts the exact opposite of how he should to qualify as a Good Japanese Boy. Izuku, on the other hand, plays the part faithfully, at least until it demands he betray his core values.

Deku vs. Kacchan 2 showcases how neither Izuku nor Katsuki had fully accepted the heroism of their counterpart. Katsuki is uncomfortable with Izuku’s innate capacity to help others, to see their need and meet it without question. Izuku is uncomfortable with craving victory, with that indomitable drive to seek glory. They each admired All Might for the value they themselves embody, and they admired each other for the value they lacked, but that doesn’t mean their admiration was uncomplicated.

Katsuki is a loud-mouthed, aggressive jerk, but Izuku ends up acting just like him. He clearly feels conflicted about it. He’s annoyed and hurt that Katsuki pushed him away by being such a jerk in the first place. And, from his perspective, he fails every time he tries to wrangle their relationship into something less miserable. He might even be embarrassed over the simple fact that he has held on to these deep-seated emotions for years over someone who wants nothing to do with him. He wishes things were different. He doesn’t know how they could be, anymore. He wants to connect, but he can’t.

Izuku frames his inability to express this specific thought as natural and reasonable. Obviously, there’s no way I could do this. And honestly, he is probably right. After all, this is a very intimate, revealing thing to tell someone who seems to hate your guts and has for years.

At any other point in the story, Katsuki probably would have curled his lip in disgust and barked out Izuku’s exact words, “Gross.”

But in DvK2, Katsuki bears his heart to Izuku without restraint.

Katsuki confesses something painful and private to Izuku twice, at two separate moments.

Izuku has two confessions, too. Here's the first:

But the second he admits only to himself and the audience.

Maybe if Izuku had said his “image of victory” monologue out loud, Katsuki could have had his own moment of understanding:

Izuku’s reaction after Katsuki’s second confession.

Maybe Katsuki wasn’t ready to hear it, or maybe Izuku was too chicken to believe he was ready. Either way, he needed to voice both confessions, and he didn’t.

So the narrative punishes Izuku for failing to push past his own limitations.

In the battle of revealing their honne—their true feelings, their truest selves—Katsuki risked it all.

Izuku couldn’t do the same, and that’s why he loses.

Don’t forget that underestimating your opponent is one of the easiest ways to lose a fight in MHA.

But I want to reiterate, Izuku feels conflicted about this behavior and his own feelings, not ashamed.

Emotional conflict is borne from two or more simultaneous, contradictory feelings. Izuku admits that any reasonable person would see the way he unconsciously imitates even Katsuki’s bad habits as gross, but he also clearly tells us something else.

Izuku is directly expressing his own thoughts about it, and the most important phrase is nanoni, which according to online encyclopedia Kotobank, “indicates that the following is contradictory to the preceding matter” and specifically, “includes critical feelings about the contradiction between” those two things. The latter point is unique because other words often used for “but” (such as kedo, which he used earlier in the form of dakedo) do not necessarily do this.

In the final line, one little detail here is the orange highlighted nda. This is used to explain and correlate topics of discussion. The most obvious point of explanation is why he acts this way. But the use of nanoni to connect this thought to the previous one tells us that this line is also explaining why Izuku doesn’t hate it.

Katsuki is his image of victory, and that alone is the reason he does not find this part of himself unacceptable. Just like with sasuga ni, Izuku is telling us that he understands the way other people would see this situation, and he knows what he “should” feel, but then he tells us that he does not feel that way.

I know it is very easy to see “This is gross, so I can’t tell you” at the start of this monologue, skip right to “image of victory,” and walk away thinking that Izuku is ashamed of that specifically, but the details show that the opposite is true.

And let’s not forget the nuance of yappari, which implies that Izuku has personally thought about this fact over and over, but it has always been this way.

I have seen people say that Katsuki is the one letting Izuku set the pace of their new relationship and that Izuku holds back, with this presumed shame as the cause. But I don’t think that acknowledges Izuku’s perspective on their dynamic, nor the casual mutualism they build together.

Katsuki initiated DvK2: a unique, closed “event” wherein, for the first time, they each expressed their vulnerabilities as much as they were able. But immediately outside the confines of DvK2, Izuku is the one who reaches out, as a gesture of reciprocation towards Katsuki for having initiated this change.

He is asking Katsuki's opinion, but what this gesture means is, “I don’t want us being honest with each other to end there. I still want you in my life.”

And maybe for the first time in years, Katsuki actually understands what Izuku means, and reaches back.

Look at these fucking nerds.

Notice that Izuku responds to Katsuki twice. At the first response, Katsuki has offered his observations and given him valid criticism on his technique, which is a show of goodwill. But then, Katsuki continues even when the admission reflects a personal weakness, with Izuku's punch having caught him off guard. This is actual honesty, and it means that they didn't just resolve their aggression and reset to neutral peers, but that Katsuki wants to be close, too. And just like during their fight, understanding comes the second time around.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: from Izuku’s point of view, Katsuki’s shitty behavior was the only thing that stood between them, because Izuku’s core feelings for him never changed.

Izuku lets Katsuki decide what is permissible between them, because Katsuki is the one who pushed him away in the first place. He opens the door just enough to say, “Whatever you want to give of yourself, I will accept.”

After that, Katsuki is the one making the big gestures by taking time out of his own life to discuss OFA with Izuku and All Might and help Izuku by training with him, even inserting himself into situations when he isn't asked. At every point, we see Izuku receive Katsuki with warmth and then follow up with smaller gestures of his own.

Chapters 202, 209, 249, and 327.

The reason we see so much of Katsuki’s side of their relationship, especially after DvK2, is because his feelings are the ones that change the most: from dysfunctional to self-aware and accepting. He has struggled for years over Izuku’s place in his life. He didn’t understand Izuku or his own feelings, and he was wrapped up in denial. He tells himself again and again that Izuku is “beneath him,” when we know the truth is he always thought Izuku was better than him.

Comparatively, Izuku resolves his conflicted feelings about his admiration for Katsuki much quicker, because the source of his conflict was primarily external while Katsuki's was primarily internal.

Chapter 257

A little detail I love about the "I'm too blessed" moment is that Izuku thinks of his conversations with Katsuki as "normal(?)" with a literal question mark attached. Is this normal? He doesn't really know. But it's enough. Kacchan is Kacchan, explosive and outrageous and way too much, all the time. Maybe they'll never be what other people think of as "normal," but Izuku is happy just to have Kacchan as he is, and be there however Kacchan will have him.

Katsuki's ideal has always been Izuku; he tried to outrun that fact and failed every time. Meanwhile, Izuku’s image of victory has always been Kacchan, and he has just been waiting for Kacchan to want to hear that from him.

Everyone has been wondering if Izuku will ever tell him. Me, personally, I'm hoping their story will end with a mutual declaration of their shared truth.

"You have always been my hero."

#bkdk #bakudeku #mha 10 #mha 118 #mha 119 #mha 120 #mha 121 #mha 202 #mha 209 #mha 249 #mha 257 #mha 327 #deku vs kacchan 2 #meta #I hope you all appreciate the neurotic depths my research went to #never again shall I forget the difference between yappari and sasuga ni #I didn't mean to give a grand tour of Izuku being incredibly in love and receptive to whatever Kacchan wants to give him #it just happened!

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zanny-writ3s-zanny · 5 days

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i would like to admit that i enjot mha in the show but my interactions with the fandom are going to be ocnal discutions, and just viewing and likeing.

#i has a bad mha phase in 202 and im scared ill go back

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purpleandstarlight · 10 months

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So previously I had this issue with reading where for like 2 years I tried and tried but my brain COULD NOT do it no matter how much i begged. My head hurt and I felt drained of energy and it was all around a bad time. However I still had reading brainrot, so i just went ahead and just scrolled on Ao3 and added fanfics to my Marked for Later fanfics for when I was healed.

A few months ago i healed (THANK GOD) but I genuinely didn't check the MFL list until now and I just randomly stumbled upon a MHA x YGO crossover I had COMPLETELY forgotten about. This is wild.

#Not an extreme fan of MHA i stopped following ages ago and only rewatched a few episodes of season one months ago #and i still have to finish YGO (I've been at like chapter 202 for A LONG TIME)#but i really need to read it soon bc it sounds cool af

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your-sovereign-ruler · 2 years

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I posted 669 times in 2022

That's 202 more posts than 2021!

34 posts created (5%)

635 posts reblogged (95%)

Blogs I reblogged the most:

@pocketramblr

@gentrychild

@xplore-the-unknwn

@achairwithapandaonit

@bamsara

I tagged 100 of my posts in 2022

#i love them your honor - 13 posts

#writing - 6 posts

#mha - 5 posts

#my hero academia - 5 posts

#witchcraft - 4 posts

#asexual - 4 posts

#witchblr - 4 posts

#acearo - 3 posts

#fanfiction - 3 posts

#rottmnt - 3 posts

Longest Tag: 90 characters

#something something the grief of a parent who lost their kid's childhoods without noticing

My Top Posts in 2022:

ROTTMNT Theory

So I was doing some research on turtles (I'm big into herps), and the video I was watching threw out a random comment about Alligator Snapper's lifespans. This piqued my curiosity, so I did a quick search of how long the other three Rise turtle species live.

The shortest lifespan goes to the Spiny Softshell (Donnie). They only live about 20 years.

Next was the Red-Eared Slider (Leo) at 30 years.

Following that is the Oriental Box Turtle (Mikey), which doesn't have a confirmed maximum lifespan, but typically lives between 40-50 years in captivity.

Finally, the Alligator Snapping Turtle (Raph), lives between 150 and 200 years.

Even if their original species' lifespans aren't observed perfectly in-universe, because they do have human DNA which would probably serve to extend the shorter-lived one's lifespan, that's still a massive difference.

Raph is going to outlive his brothers. Most likely by a huge margin.

Even if their lives are extended to a normal human lifespan of about 80 years, they won't be around for even half as long as he will.

I just think it's so sad that the guy who lives for his family, who would die for them, will have to watch them grow old and leave him. He's going to end up alone.

14 notes - Posted November 30, 2022

Oh yeah? Well I'm 16 and I learned THIS from a rat!

*Plays your bones like a keyboard and shuts down your nervous system*

27 notes - Posted February 9, 2022

Art for my Soul Eater x FNAF Security Breach AU!

I originally suggested this in @bamsara 's stream yesterday, and I'm so glad that so many people ran with the idea!

The vague outline for this is that Sun and Moon are both weapons that are cursed by a witch to only be able to transform together. She also makes them look more like their in-game selves because I say so.

The appearance of their weapon form changes depending on who's in charge. When Sun's controlling the transformation, they're a double-bladed halberd. It's about 6.5 feet long, with stylized sun-shaped cutouts on each blade. Under the base of the axeheads, there's a red ribbon wrapped around the staff, with gold bells.

When Moon's in charge, they're a haladie dagger. They're only about 9 inches long in this form. The grip is blue leather with a crescent moon decal, and the guards at the base of each blade are bells.

Sun is best used for more distanced fighting because personality-wise I think he'd prefer that their meister stay as far away from their enemy as possible. Conversely, Moon's a knife because he's a bit more feral. I've been toying with the idea that the curse they have can influence the meister using them, so they would actually go into a bloodlust using Moon's form if they're not careful.

They would have been attacked by a witch when they were in their tweens, and the spell was originally to make them super aggressive and loyal to the witch (and look inhuman so people were less inclined to help them or hear them out if they asked for help.) Moon would have taken the brunt of this to protect Sun, which is why his weapon form has a much bigger effect on the meister's psyche. This is pulling from my understanding of the game, how Moon was affected by the Afton virus while Sun wasn't (or at least to a far lesser extent). While the effect is less extreme or obvious, Sun's weapon form can cause their meister to become extremely protective, to the point of self-destructive behaviors.

Lord Death, best dad of all the dads, was very understanding of their problem, and their vendetta against witches in general. He allowed them to enroll in DWMA, but keeps a close eye on them and their meister to ensure that the curse doesn't get the best of them.

Their meister is going to be Y/n, because x reader fics are cool actually. I won't be making the fic NSFW, or even have fade to black sort of scenes. I think I'll stick with platonic/romantic sort of stuff, with room to interpret it as the reader would like.

So, yeah, that's what I have so far. Feel free to use any ideas here, but please don't directly copy my art or the whole of the plot in something.

43 notes - Posted May 8, 2022

Book of Boba Fett Spoilers

In the first episode of The Book of Boba Fett, we saw a lot of twi'leks. Which was pretty cool. They're one of my favorite species! But, there was something that really caught my eye about one of them.

In the cantina, there were two twi'leks who came up to greet Boba Fett and Fennic.

These two. Pretty cool! We love seeing twi'leks out of enslavement! And I think this is the first time we've seen a yellow twi'lek in live action, too.

But on to the science!

One of the less noticeable morphological differences between biologically male and female twi'leks are their ears.

Male twi'lek's have humanoid, pointed ears. They tend to stay flatter to the head.

See the full post

52 notes - Posted January 8, 2022

My #1 post of 2022

Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Theory

I absolutely love this show, and I really love how the turtles have such a sweet relationship with each other and Splinter. However, I've been bothered by how Splinter insists on calling them by their color, rather than by their names. I mean, I think this is the only version where they actually call him "dad"!

I believe that I've figured it out.

In the episode "Goyles, Goyles, Goyles," we see our lovely boy Lu has sworn off fighting and is just acting like a sweetheart. He's immediately enamored by Draxom's little turtles, and, rather unimaginatively, names them all "green".

Though he seems to really like them, they're obviously normal turtles. It doesn't really matter what he names them.

Now, once Draxam starts the procedure, Lu's upset that the turtles are being mutated into weapons (what an absolute softie, my goodness), and he interrupts the procedure. Now, the turtles are obviously no longer just turtles, but the extent of it is probably up in the air. Lu probably had no clue what he had to expect, but he still grabbed the tiny anthropomorphic turtles anyway, like a boss.

See the full post

218 notes - Posted September 26, 2022

Get your Tumblr 2022 Year in Review →

#tumblr2022 #year in review #my 2022 tumblr year in review #your tumblr year in review

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im-alyssa-btw · 1 year

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I posted 651 times in 2022

19 posts created (3%)

632 posts reblogged (97%)

Blogs I reblogged the most:

@persephonessugarbaby

@dexpairs-blog

@encyclop3dia

@neogale

@izukuwus

I tagged 43 of my posts in 2022

#bnha spoilers - 4 posts

#tokyo revengers - 4 posts

#baji - 3 posts

#keisuke baji - 3 posts

#jjk - 3 posts

#mha spoilers - 2 posts

#my hero academia spoilers - 2 posts

#genshin impact - 2 posts

#genshin impact x reader - 2 posts

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Longest Tag: 75 characters

#no bc i just know we would give each other hair ties if one didn't have one

My Top Posts in 2022:

im so sick of people automatically making the reader in x readers white/light skinned, like even smuts have it where they point out pink nipples and hand marks showing up on skin like AHHHHH.

like i have those attributes but its not fair to the people who don't look like that. thats why poc!readers seem to be so necessary because bitches cant just use a different word instead of a fucking color.

21 notes - Posted October 6, 2022

I NEED A SLOWBURN SPY AU WITH HEIZOU THIS FUCKING INSTANT

specifically with this playlist please lord almighty

50 notes - Posted August 4, 2022

i love how in tokyo revengers fanfics they reader is always cleaning up wounds on the character after they get in a little scrap like do you not remember how mikey can literally dodge several people at once and beat their asses without a single injury?? stop underestimating their asses 😭😭😭

202 notes - Posted July 29, 2022

My #1 post of 2022

just wanna let you guys know that foxes do indeed wag their tails when theyre happy, so feel free to use that information in tighnari fics :P

ps: tag me in the fics you use this in please

256 notes - Posted November 12, 2022

Get your Tumblr 2022 Year in Review →

#tumblr2022 #year in review #my 2022 tumblr year in review #your tumblr year in review #i deleted 3 lol

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puraiuddo · 6 years

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Touya “Dabi” Todoroki

#and that's that on that #dabi #dabi todoroki #todoroki dabi #todoroki touya #touya todoroki #bnha 202 #mha 202 #bnha #mha #my hero academia #boku no hero academia #purs post #purs edit

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earlysignsofineptitude · 6 years

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Yes, yes, we all know Touya has a weak constitution, Enji.

#dumb shit #has this been done already?#bnha #mha #bnha spoilers #bnha spoiler #boko no hero academia #my hero academia #dabi is a todoroki #bnha dabi #dabi #enji todoroki #todoroki enji #endeavor #bnha 202 #mha 202 #lol #todoroki touya #touya todoroki

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letssugame · 6 years

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Tokoyami, Todoroki, Iida and a series of unfortunate events

The title of this was going to be "Can we talk about how Iida is a awesome friend?" but the introduction was too long ... This is too long in general... and I end up talking more about Todoroki than about Iida himself.

In chapter 202, Tokoyami said this without really knowing what effect it will have on Todoroki. He is partly sharing his concern that he wasn’t enough to represent Hawks. According to his own perspective, of course. Remember that he is an edgeboy after all.

Tokoyami respects Hawks a lot after that talk they had and maybe thinks that something similar can happen with Todoroki. In the end, what Tokoyami wanted to do with these words was to give Todoroki encouragement for his battle and apologize for his own performance.

But... that wasn’t what happened.

Personally, I don’t think anyone in class 1-A really knows anything about Todoroki's past, after all, the whole family keeps it a secret behind closed doors.

The person who can know something else about this is Deku for what happened at the sports festival (and this would include Bakugou for listening the conversation that they had).

But I’m pretty sure that what Deku knows and imagines doesn’t come close to what the really was Todoroki’s life. He knows that Todoroki was pressured and knows his relationship with his mother. But he does not know the way in which everything happened.

After all, even the episode that Todoroki had during the arc of the pro-heroes, from the perspective of another character of class 1-A (excluding Deku and Bakugou for reason of before), can be seen as simple concern of a son towards his father.

Something that doesn’t come close to half of what Todoroki was experiencing at that time. This wasn’t just concern, it was an internal struggle of emotions and experiences.

Shouto went from having a father like that:

To have one like this:

Just look at the change in Enji's eyes:

In the own chapter Inasa makes a comparison between the eyes that he remembered and the current ones, however, this takes on another dimension if we think that both looks are TOWARDS his son. I really... I really don’t think that Shouto has ever experienced a look charged with affection from his father before that.

And in that moment of change, he suddenly sees his father like this:

“A hero you can be pround of“ isn’t a dead hero for Shouto.

Shouto wasn’t only carrying with concern during his scenes in the arc of pro-heroes, he was carrying much more. On the other hand, Enji truly wants to change even though he knows that will not erase everything he has already done wrong.

Chapter 202 only reaffirm this last: what is done is done.

Shouto will never forget his past. There are scars too deep to be healed. He can see who his father will become and support him. But that does not change the fact that he hasn’t forgiven him yet.

Going back to the starting point

For that reason, I was very shocked by the fact that the first panel we see between Tokoyami's phrase and Shouto's reaction is one of Iida.

One would think that after the Todoroki sports festival episode he would not have brought up the subject of his father to anyone else. But Iida's reaction, turning to see Todoroki shows us that Iida knows that the relationship between Shouto and Enji is delicate. So... know he aything? or supposed he something?

And that panel is not just any filler. Horikoshi wanted us to notice that Iida was worry about this. You know, technically we could have had a scene like this:

But we haven’t.

Iida knows that Tokoyami's words, although he doesn’t intend it, will negatively affect Todoroki. He worries about it and later, he notices a change in him.

He even notices a change in his expression. Which says a lot according to what Ojiro says.

And while it is true that Iida feels responsible for his class as the president of them, I really think that He notices that because He’s close enough to Todoroki.

Maybe iida keeps an eye on everyone to fulfill their responsibilities. But he isn’t the first to intervene when it comes to deeper or personal things. He only intervenes directly in this kind of situations when it comes to Midoriya or Todoroki. His friends.

And these little things make us as a spectator have something clear: The friendship between Iida and Todoroki is not a fragile friendship connected with a tape called Midoriya. It is a stable friendship without the presence of him. Fact that i really love.

#todoroki shouto #iida tenya #fumikage tokoyami #todoroki enji #bnha 202 #bnha #endeavor #iidatodo #boku no hero academia #mha #mha 202 #my hero academia #long post #VERY long post #verbiage #spoilers

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bakuhatsufallinlove · 3 months

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Omae Part 2 Electric Boogaloo

Tomorrow is the one-year anniversary of my post Omae: Complexity of Self-Expression and Intimacy in the Japanese “You.” In honor of it, I’m doing a follow-up post.

Why? Because I made two claims in that post:

“as far as I can tell, Izuku is the only person Katsuki has ever used the pronoun omae (おまえ) towards in-canon”

“Furthermore, he has only used omae towards Izuku on three occasions.”

I prefaced both with “as far as I can tell” because I had some doubts that Katsuki’s use of omae was exactly that exclusive, but I knew it was pretty damn exclusive, so I went ahead and wrote the meta anyway. And I still stand by my assessments of how he uses it and what those moments mean.

But I was wrong on both counts.

Katsuki has used omae towards people other than Izuku.

He has used omae towards Izuku on five occassions, as of chapter 409.

Of course, chapter 409 wasn’t released until months after I wrote my pronoun meta, but at the time of my post, I had in fact missed one pivotal omae directed at Izuku that occurs much earlier in the series.

I wanna talk about those two extra omae towards Izuku and who else he has used omae towards. Much like Katsuki, I am a perfectionist, so if I'm gonna revisit this topic, I'm gonna go all the way.

So, I went through 409 chapters and catalogued every single time Katsuki uses a second-person pronoun.

STRAP IN, BUCKOS.

An Exhaustive Analysis of Bakugou Katsuki’s Second-Person Pronoun Usage

These are all the “you” pronouns Katsuki has used in the manga. We’ll go over them one-by-one and talk about who he uses them for, when, and my thoughts on why.

First, a note about rudeness: In many languages, and certainly in Japanese, familiarity and rudeness go hand-in-hand. In dictionaries and on grammar websites, you’ll see advice about using a term only with “people above you” or “people equal to or below you.” In general, you are either talking up to someone (polite speech) or you are talking down to them (casual speech). Excluding outright derogatory language, talking down to someone is the same as treating them as your equal.

Talking up creates or maintains distance between parties. Casual speech, familiar terms, and directness are nuances that generally get introduced into relationships as they deepen. Basically, being close to someone gives you the “right to be rude” to them. To speak this way with a stranger or people who are your hierarchical “social superiors” is considered rude in part because you lack an established (or equal) relationship with them.

I mention this because I think some people are under the misapprehension that for Katsuki to show someone he cares, he would have to speak respectfully towards them—that is, talk up to them. That simply isn’t the case, and in fact such behavior might convey callous indifference instead, because switching from casual speech to formal speech with someone you have history with puts distance between you, pushing them away.

Instead, there are more nuanced ways to connect and affirm bonds. Katsuki using omae rather than temee, for example, is not him being more polite, he's just being less insulting. He is still talking down, and one could argue that by refusing to talk up to anyone, Katsuki treats everyone equally. I mean he is still a foul-mouthed little monster, but you know, at least he’s consistent about it.

Anyway, keep this “right to be rude” in mind.

As mentioned in my first post, temee is basically Katsuki’s default second-person pronoun. If he’s addressing someone directly and he isn’t using one of his mean nicknames, it is almost guaranteed to be this word. This graphic is the only one that is not exhaustive, featuring just the top three.

Temee is derogatory; it is often translated as “you bastard,” and even when it’s not, its presence encourages translators to slather a veneer of rudeness across the sentence as a whole. Unlike the other pronouns we’re going to talk about, there is basically no scenario where you could use temee and not come across like an asshole. You could use it with friends or family to joke around, but you’re still being an asshole, just a funny one.

And... can we just acknowledge the vast gulf between Izuku’s 62 and runner-up Todoroki’s 14? Obviously Izuku is the protagonist, so it makes sense that much of the dialogue we are shown from any character is about him or directed at him. But it’s also just really funny.

No single use of temee is particularly notable since it's so common, but it is obvious why these two are at the top of the list: Katsuki has a lot of scenes with them, and he considers them his rivals. As a result, they tend to throw him into a tizzy often.

Anta is a contraction of anata. If avoiding a “you” pronoun entirely is the most polite way to refer to someone, anata is arguably the next most polite way. It is considered polite towards someone of “equal or lower status,” but can seem distant—you hear it in commercials when the narrator has to address the audience, “you, the customer.”

Anta strips away that distance and expresses either familiarity or contempt, depending on how you want to read it, which makes it pretty fucking funny that Katsuki uses it for his mentor figures. It is worth noting that anta is significantly less offensive than his typical temee and arguably even omae. A normal person would never use anta towards their boss or teacher—or their lifelong idol, for that matter—because it is talking down, which puts them on your level. But Katsuki’s whole persona is built around rebellious superiority, so out of all the options, he affords All Might and Best Jeanist the least offensive pronoun he can stomach using. Essentially, “I’m not gonna be fuckin’ polite but god, fine, I’ll be LESS rude, I guess” while still maintaining plausible deniability.

I also wanna note that there are instances where Katsuki technically uses temee towards All Might and anta towards Izuku, because he uses them in the plural form to refer to both of them at once. It’s actually pretty interesting to see who is framed as the “primary subject” of his scolding based on which pronoun he uses.

Chapter 257

All Might is the one droning on and on, so Katsuki’s response pluralizes his All Might pronoun anta into antara, lumping Izuku in with him. Basically: “stop wasting my time and get to the point (and that goes for you, too, Deku).”

Here we’ve got him pluralizing temee and, between All Might and Izuku, it’s definitely more the Izuku pronoun. So this reads a little like “dammit Deku you kept this secret so badly I found out and then you swore me to secrecy but you’re STILL UTTER SHIT AT HIDING IT so you are MAKING MY LIFE EVEN HARDER (and you, All Might, don’t you fucking know better??)”

Aaaand now we’re at the good shit. Okay, let’s break it down.

Ochako

Chapter 36

Katsuki addresses Ochako with omae at the very start of their Sports Festival battle, and this is in fact the first time he addresses her personally with a second-person pronoun. It’s a great writing choice: unlike every other fight we’ve seen Katsuki in so far, he isn’t busting out his typical boisterous insults. Rather, what he says reads as a measured assessment of her as a threat, and omae contributes to this. Had he used temee, he might still have come across this way on the whole, but the use of omae as the first word out of his mouth—when the audience knows he uses temee—sets this moment apart even more.

The text of Uraraka vs. Bakugou isn't ambiguous: Katsuki takes Ochako seriously, immediately, when no one else does. This is of course a rejection of sexist assumptions about girls, but it is also because Katsuki is smart. Kaminari’s battle is the foil to this fight. Where Bakugou succeeds, Kaminari failed, having been too sexist, cocky, and just plain dumb to properly assess his opponent and the danger they pose to him.

I said in my first post that Katsuki’s omae towards Izuku immediately after Deku vs. Kacchan 2 reads as him addressing Izuku as an equal, and I would say the same is true here.

After Ochako tries to execute her plan and Katsuki accuses her of colluding with Izuku, he uses temee towards her. It’s his standard choice, of course, but the change feels a little loaded in hindsight. She might have been afforded a different pronoun once, but she quickly gets lumped into the temee pile at least partly due to Proximity To Deku.

Katsuki talks the most shit when he’s on the ropes—a strategic, cocky camouflage for his vulnerability. We know from his thoughts watching Todoroki vs. Midoriya that at this moment, he was pretty worried he was at his limit. But Katsuki also likes a good challenge, and he respects people who can give it to him, so in gearing up for the climax of this fight, he calls her by her surname.

The progression: omae + mean nickname → temee → surname.

In later scenes, he addresses her with his typical temee, which just goes to show you that Katsuki really picks and chooses his moments.

Or, as All Might put it:

Speaking of picking and choosing his moments, this next one was a delight to discover.

Jirou

Chapter 182

As with Ochako, this is the first time Katsuki uses a "you" towards Jirou personally. To be precise, what he uses is a sound-shifted variant of omae pronounced omee (written variously as おめえ, おめー, and おめぇ). We’ll talk about whether that means anything later.

This occurs during the school festival when Jirou belts her heart out suddenly. Katsuki thinks back to how the band had criticized his improvisation and her specifically telling him not to do it during the show. So he says out loud, to himself, “omee ga surun kai,” for which I think the funniest translation would be, “OH BUT YOU CAN DO IT, HUH??”

The official English translation is “hypocrite!” which isn’t bad, but yeah, he is being such a grumpy little sarcastic baby about it, it’s very funny. Just muttering complaints under his breath, with no actual ill-will attached. The fact that he uses omee reinforces the sense that this is not a serious complaint; it’s good-natured ribbing and contributes to the reader’s awareness that Katsuki likes and respects Jirou.

While Kaminari and Sero mischievously try to trick him into participating in the festival, Jirou earnestly asks for his help while acknowledging his skill.

Chapter 171

On top of outright asking "onegai" (please, but literally: "a request"), the verb construction she uses (やってくれたら, yatte kuretara) frames his participation as a favor; kureru is basically “to do for the benefit of someone else [often to your disadvantage or inconvenience].” And then she personally works her ass off to make their performance the very best it can be.

Later during the Joint Training Battle, Katsuki relies on her, uses a nickname for her (to her annoyance), and saves her. Kirishima and Kaminari both astutely comment that the festival band reinforced Katsuki’s trust in his classmates and his willingness to work with them towards success.

In this moment during the festival, Katsuki is letting Jirou shine, because each of them doing what they do best is what makes the performance a triumph in the first place.

But the boy’s still gonna be a bossy little tsundere about it.

4th Grade Bullies

Chapter 62

In Izuku’s flashback, little Katsuki uses omaera (plural form) towards the 4th graders who pick a fight with him.

You might be thinking, “Hang on, haven’t all the omae uses so far been for people Katsuki likes or at least respects? So why is he using it for these two?” And you’d be right, at least when it comes to present-day, teenage Katsuki using omae, because it’s no longer his default.

Flashbacks to Katsuki and Izuku’s childhood tell us that Katsuki’s default peer address as a kid was most likely omae, and that he switched to temee as he got older and became more of an obnoxious little shit. I emphasized in my first post that omae seems softer coming from Katsuki because it’s a departure from his normal way of speaking. The flashbacks show us a time when he was... kinda just a regular kid using language common among boys his age.

Still, there is a “cool tough guy” air to this moment, because omae can also come across as contemptuous—which is how Izuku uses it towards villains in present-day. Izuku uses boku for himself and kimi for peers, the combination of which tend to be seen as kind of soft and boyish, rather than macho and cool. Little Katsuki uses the boastful pronoun ore for himself and omae towards the bullies, who are both older and therefore technically "above" him.

So Izuku marvels at Kacchan, who talks big and tough like a grownup. Kacchan who can do anything, who stands his ground, fights to win, and invokes the heroic ideals of All Might.

Izuku

Chapter 9

The first time we see Katsuki call Izuku by his name is when we learn the origins of the nickname Deku. It also happens to be the first time we see Katsuki address someone with something other than temee. This scene shows us a glimpse of what their relationship looked like before it totally fell apart: before Katsuki nicknamed him Deku, he called him Izuku. And before Katsuki started hurling insults and screaming “you bastard” (temee!) at Izuku all the time, he used a different “you” word for him, too. Little Katsuki addressed him as a little boy would address a peer or a friend.

It made me wonder… is the aftermath of Deku vs Kacchan 2 the first time Katsuki has addressed him as an equal since they were little kids?

And, furthermore, little Katsuki uses the sound shifted variant, omee.

You might be surprised to learn that temee itself is a sound shifted variant of temae (手前, てまえ). Temae literally means “before the hand” and historically, it was a humble first-person pronoun, meaning “me, who stands before you.” Omae (お前) literally means “the one before [me],” it was historically very polite and only used for extremely high-class people. Somewhere along the way, temae became a second-person pronoun like omae, and both started to be perceived as quite rude.

Tough guy Japanese speech patterns are epitomized by sound shifts and bitten off words. Supposedly, this dialect originates in Tokyo’s historic Shitamachi area, which is characterized as rough and working class in sharp contrast to the wealthy, high class Yamanote area.

So, does omee mean something different than omae? Maybe, but not always. Does it mean something different when someone says “Thank ya” rather than “Thank you”? Or when someone says “y’all” rather than “you all”? Not exactly, but… does it feel different? It can.

Little Katsuki’s sound shift links this moment to our last example:

Chapter 409

As you acquire language, you develop a personal relationship with it informed by your experiences. More than just dictionary definitions, you gain cultural and emotional associations, and that impacts how you interpret media and other people. I don’t think anyone can say that omee definitively conveys something different than omae, but I do know that when I personally read Katsuki use it in 409, the shift feels like casual fondness. Like letting down your guard. A reassurance spoken softly. It somehow feels just a bit softer than if he had enunciated omae.

Years ago, Katsuki used it to tease Izuku about how he can’t do anything. And four hundred chapters later, he uses it to say “I won’t get in your way anymore.”

You should read pikahlua's really, really good meta about what this line means.

Whether it was intentional on Horikoshi’s part or not, I think it is a meaningful callback. These are the only two times Katsuki has ever used omee towards Izuku. It emphasizes how he has changed, yes, but it also ties in the context of his own past "uselessness" and how he has surpassed it, that he won't ever again be "a weakness others can exploit" to get to Izuku. But also, as pika says:

(And I read that he’s ready to let Izuku be the main character.)

The only other time Katsuki has used omee is towards Jirou, when he affectionately teased her for being a hypocrite while also making sure she got her time in the limelight.

And what does Katsuki think in the next chapter?

“Izuku, do your best.”

Izuku gets his time in the limelight. They each brought their own strengths to this final battle, and Katsuki has held up his end. He wasn’t a burden, he didn’t hold Izuku back—he came back from the dead, saved their hero, and took out All For One. Now Izuku has to do what he does best.

A lot of the things I said in this post simply reiterate the meaning of the text itself, and that's because the nuances in Katsuki’s dialogue support the narrative. They reinforce what the story tells us about him and his relationships, and I think that's pretty amazing.

#bkdk #translations #meta #mha 9 #mha 36 #mha 62 #mha 171 #mha 182 #mha 202 #mha 257 #mha 409 #mha manga spoilers

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