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ddthebreadboy · 10 months

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Wei Wuxian has one Good Shidi Pt. 1

Jiang Cheng, "..., No matter who they are, with a surname of Wen they have committed a most heinous crime! And those who protect the Wen are at risk of being condemned by everyone! All the people loathe the Wen-dogs so badly that the worse they die the better. Whoever protects them is against the entire world. Nobody would speak for them, and nobody would speak for you either!" ---MDZS Ch. 73

Meanwhile in reality, a few days ago in Jinlintai:

Lan XiChen responded a moment later, "I have heard of Wen Qing's name a few of times. I do not remember her having participated in any of the Sunshot Campaign's crimes."

Nie MingJue, "But she's never stopped them either."

Lan XiChen, "Wen Qing was one of Wen RuoHan's most trusted people. How could she have stopped them?"

Lan Xichen spoke for Wen Qing, the so called Wen Dog whom no one willing to speak for.

Still, in the same occasion, Lan Wangji:

Lan WangJi sat with his back straight, speaking in a tone of absolute tranquility,

"I did not hear Wei Ying say this. I did not hear him express the slightest disrespect towards Sect Leader Jiang either."

Lan Wangji spoke for Wei Wuxian. Thwarting Jin Guangshan's deliberate slanders toward Wei Wuxian, embarrassing a Sect Leader in his own banquet, just to defend Wei Wuxian.

Of course don't forget one more person:

Suddenly, a careful voice interjected, "It's not killing indiscriminately, is it?"

...

The woman seemed as if she was scared. She was even more careful, "No... I don't mean anything more. There's no need to be so agitated, everyone. I just feel that the words 'killing indiscriminately' isn't really suitable."

...

The woman tried hard to protest, "The Sunshot Campaign is a battlefield. In the battlefield, would it mean that everyone is killing indiscriminately? Let's consider this as it stands. I really don't think it's right to say that he killed indiscriminately. After all, there is a reason. If the inspectors really abused the prisoners and killed Wen Ning, it wouldn't be called killing indiscriminately anymore, but rather revenge..."

...

The woman said, "The other inspectors are scared that they'd be responsible for abusing the prisoners and killing people. Of course they'd insist that he fell off on his own..."

3 People Spoke for both Wen Dogs and Wei Wuxian.

2 of them even people with high status.

So much for "No one spoke for them. No one spoke for you" huh...

Jiang Cheng is really a very good Shidi🙂🙂🙂 A good Shidi who will tell his Shixiong that "Everyone else is against you".

#Wwx Has a Good Shidi #Yunmeng Shuang-Jie #Loving Brothers #jiang cheng #wei wuxian #lan xichen #lan wangji #mianmian #canon jiang cheng #mdzs #mo dao zu shi #grandmaster of demonic cultivation

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ddthebreadboy · 10 months

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The MXTX interview is up guys https://weibo.com/ttarticle/x/m/show/id/2309404898370593620467?_wb_client_=1

The interview just came out in Japan but it originally took place in Nov 2022. It is from the Japanese literary magazine Subaru. For clarity I used the machine translation. I felt even with this it was very easy to understand. Though the MTL is clearly not perfect you can still understand the meaning of what is being conveyed. Also note the text you see here on Weibo is also a translation from the original Japanese to Chinese

The following are just some snippets I enjoyed about Wangxian:

I think Wei Wuxian is a very interesting person. If you become friends with him, there should be no one who will hate him. I like his loving side. Whether it is a partner, family, friends, passers-by or children, he will take the lead in expressing his love and take serious actions to implement them. Such a personality is very important for me and the relationship between him and Lan Wangji. If I have to say it, I can be more communic with Lan Wangji, so for me, Wei Wuxian as a charming character is of the most important thing. If I can't make me think that "Lan Wangji will definitely fall in love with Wei Wuxian, and this feeling will be so strong that I will never forget it for life", then I can't convince myself to believe in their love and continue to write. Because the relationship between the two is a very important element in the work, I have thought a lot.

Mo Xiang: Lan Wangji is a lovely person! Although he is not close to people on the surface, when he falls in love with someone, he has a pure and delicate mind like a girl. I will be shy, I will cry, I will be jealous, I will hesitate, I will worry alone... I like this kind of attack the most! The setting of weak wine is also to show the cuteness of Lan Wangji. I think the little childish attack is very cute.

I think the readers can’t help but fall in love and be absolutely charmed with Wei Wuxian too so we also understand Lan Wangji’s devotion to him. But I also find Lan Wangji’s shy maiden act adorable as well. 🥰

Also I love MXTX’s taste in fiction. She mentioned a lot of great literature but she also mentioned being a fan of Rumiko Takahashi and Inuyasha. 🥹

#MXTX succeeds with that #Because I absolutely love WWX and i csnt forget this man #I understand fairly well why LWJ is heads over heels with him #Because I DO #Like WWX is not just another Shou in sterotype BL stories #He is a fine man and him being on the bottom position doesnt erase the fact that he is a very well damn FINE gentleman #wei wuxian #wei ying #wangxian #mdzs #mo dao zu shi #grandmaster of demonic cultivation

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ddthebreadboy · 1 year

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OP I feel you!

Yeah, that one fic again.

And yeah, that one JC is being wronged again.

Fuck, I'm here again. Goddammit. I've been doing well. I've been keeping Jiang Cheng off my mind (and my computer screen). Things have been peaceful.

And then today happened.

Again, a fic. Again, not naming names, both because that's rude and also because this issue is hardly specific to one fic alone. I've seen it many times.

But I've been pacing for half an hour, too agitated to keep reading, so I'm just gonna get this off my chest, and then skim through the fic 'til it stops talking about it.

I need to talk about the golden core reveal.

Specifically, I need to talk about an attitude I've seen cropping up recently in a lot of fics. (By recently, I don't mean it's only recent fics that do it, just that I've only noticed it recently.)

So it'll be a fic, usually canon divergent, but prior to the golden core reveal. Wen Ning or Wen Qing will often be involved (though I can think of a few times it was Lan Wangji). And the character, who knows the truth about the golden core transfer, will urge Wei Wuxian to tell Jiang Cheng.

They'll say "you have to tell him". They'll say "he'll find out eventually". They'll say "he deserves to know".

And... the fic will support this.

Will frame Wei Wuxian as irrational, paranoid even, to keep it secret.

Will sometimes even punish him, narratively, for his "failure" to disclose such a thing.

And I am... completely baffled.

Where the fuck is this coming from?

I suppose, if I'm being generous, I can kind of see why an individual sympathising with Jiang Cheng might have a knee-jerk reaction to this. If you see them as being essentially family, the idea that a family member that you love deeply, keeping what amounts to both a huge sacrifice and a massive disability from you would be extremely painful. You might feel hurt, that they didn't tell you. Angry, at the implied lack of trust.

I get it, as an emotional response you might have in the moment. I don't find it particularly relatable, but I can follow the thought process.

But like... that's an emotional response. Surely, at some point, logic has to kick in, right?

Because the thing is. Okay, there's two aspects to the secret, right? One, is that a medical procedure was done to Jiang Cheng, sort of like an organ transplant, I suppose, but he wasn't told that the organ was donated by Wei Wuxian. And the other is that Wei Wuxian made this huge sacrifice for Jiang Cheng, and didn't tell him.

But thinking about this for even five minutes should tell you that... neither of those things are actually Wei Wuxian's responsibility to deal with?

The first one is the by far the more common argument I've seen. I've read fics where Wen Ning and Wen Qing are tortured with guilt over having performed the procedure without telling Jiang Cheng all the details. I've even seen people have them blame Wei Wuxian, for demanding they keep it secret, had them secretly resent him for it. He's portrayed as deeply selfish, for keeping the truth of Jiang Cheng's operation from him.

But the thing is... if you're going to apply modern medical ethics to the situation... Wei Wuxian was in the right? They all were?

Under modern medical ethics, you have no right to know the identity of your organ donor. That can feel a little weird (it's probably why people often have a knee-jerk reaction that demands the opposite); after all, it's my body, shouldn't I have a right to know where the organ that goes in it comes from? What if it has cooties?

But according to medical ethics, the donor's right to medical privacy is more protected that the recipient's right to that information. Right to medical privacy is pretty highly valued; it kind of ties into body autonomy, which is kind of the keystone of... most modern ethics. You have a right to control what happens to your body, and that includes controlling whether or not people know about any medical conditions/procedures. So you might have an emotional response, thinking Jiang Cheng is valid for being upset that his golden core came from Wei Wuxian without him knowing, but... ethically, Wei Wuxian has the right to withhold that information.

But! some scarecrow says, If a person has the right to control what procedures happen to their body, surely that means Jiang Cheng has a right to control what happens to his own body! Therefore, the procedure was still unethical, because he didn't know everything!

And I say, well... not really. The reality is, we don't actually know how much Jiang Cheng was told. He was told to walk up a mountain, lie to the person he encountered about his identity, and ask for a golden core. And he left that mountain with said golden core... but we don't know how much Wen Qing told him when he reached the top. We know he believed Wen Qing was the Baoshan Sanren. We know he received a fully developed core, not just the ability to form a new one. Was he told that the core was from someone else? Were there signs of the transfer? Did he know the chance of success/failure? Did he not find any of the situation dubious?

(Did he really spend two and a half years fighting a war alongside, and then running a sect for a year with, someone and not realise they didn't use orthodox cultivation even once?)

The truth is, a doctor is required to inform a patient of risks, and answer any questions they ask. Wen Qing may well have disclosed the risk (if there was any to Jiang Cheng, other than potentially the transfer failing) prior to the surgery, we just don't know. We don't have any evidence that Jiang Cheng asked any questions, and from what we see in the novel, it seems likely that he simply didn't want to know. He got a core, his life was somewhat back on track; we never see any evidence of curiosity or confusion in him as to the specifics of how that happened.

The only lie we are sure that he was told was the identity of the person who he met on the mountain, who "gave" him the core. I could be petty and point out that as he was also lying about his identity, it kind of cancels out, but that would be a bit ridiculous, and unnecessary besides. The truth is, ethically, Wen Qing could have knocked him out and performed the surgery from the comfort of her own office. Because one of, if not the main reason you can ethically violate someone's body autonomy... is to save a life. And Jiang Cheng, after losing first his family and sect, and then his golden core, displayed clear suicidal ideation. He indicated, repeatedly, that he wanted to die. He refused food. Wei Wuxian even doubled checked, before giving him hope of getting a new core, that he was serious! (Rereading that scene is horrible; Wei Wuxian's dread, and eventual resignation/resolve becomes very apparent once you know what's happening).

The characters around him, including a trained doctor, believed that if he didn't get a new core, he would give up and die. Under those circumstances, a doctor has authority to make medical decisions, without a patients consent, if they believe it is a medical emergency. Wen Qing was an unquestionably brilliant doctor; if she believed doing the surgery was the right/necessary decision, who the hell are we to dispute her?

So, to be clear, under modern medical ethics (which seems to be what is being applied in these claims), Wen Qing has the right to do whatever surgery she feels necessary to save the life of her patient, no consent needed, and Wei Wuxian has the right to keep his identity as the donor a secret, since that's his own private medical history. Modern medical ethics (a bit ridiculous, when talking about magic powers, but I've seen the argument) supports our protagonist.

Now, onto the other thing. This is a lot less... ethics discussion and a lot more feels-bad-so-wrong type thing. Wei Wuxian kept the loss of his golden core a secret.

Jiang Cheng being upset by this is understandable. Like I said, I can follow the emotion/logic. Someone keeping a big secret from you can be hurtful.

But just because it's hurtful to you, doesn't mean they're in the wrong to do it!

If someone I cared about kept a massive secret from me, and I found out, I'd be upset! But my first thought would be 'Why did they feel they couldn't tell me?' And the answer here is obvious; Wei Wuxian didn't think he could tell Jiang Cheng because he knew he'd be horrible about it! Wei Wuxian admits, after the reveal, that the process of losing his core was distressing, and that he wasn't as okay with it as he pretended to be. If something like that happens to you (not... that it can, but, you know, equivalent), and you're struggling to hold it together, the last thing you want is someone you care about yelling at you about it, insulting you, making you feel bad for what happened!

Wei Wuxian didn't tell Jiang Cheng because he knew Jiang Cheng would be awful to him because of it. Jiang Cheng's jealousy when they were young was something Wei Wuxian felt he had to manage*, and he knew Jiang Cheng would feel inadequate if he realised his accomplishments were made with Wei Wuxian's core. And he would then lash out at Wei Wuxian for it, at a time when Wei Wuxian was already feeling emotionally fragile. Hell, nearly twenty years later, Jiang Cheng getting up in his face was enough to cause a Qi deviation; I can't imagine it would have been better any sooner!

No one wants to think of the people they love keeping secrets from them. And sometimes, people who keep secrets are doing it for their own sake, because they're scared, or unsure, or guilty, or whatever. But sometimes, when a person keeps a secret, the reason is not internal. If someone acts horribly to you when you tell them things, you're going to stop telling them things. And the person responsible for that gap in communication is them; all you're doing is protecting yourself.

And before anyone thinks that I'm assigning reasoning to Wei Wuxian that he doesn't have; he essentially admits it. After the reveal, Wei Wuxian states that he knew Jiang Cheng would react badly (though he didn't expect it to be quite so bad). Wei Wuxian is shown to have been managing Jiang Cheng's moods since they were young**, it's probably not the first secret he's kept. But that's kind of just... how that works; if a king kills every person who brings him bad news, eventually, all his advisors will only ever bring him good news. And he has no one to blame when his kingdom falls but himself.

SO. tl;dr. Modern medical ethics supports Wen Qing performing the golden core transfer, and Wei Wuxian keeping his identity as the donor a secret. Jiang Cheng can be upset at Wei Wuxian for not telling him that he no longer has a core, but it's not unethical, or selfish, and the nature of their relationship, with Jiang Cheng lashing out with impunity and Wei Wuxian trying to manage his moods, meant that secrets like that were pretty much inevitable. Unhealthy relationships are unhealthy. Truly, newsworthy take.

And one final note, on Wei Wuxian keeping secrets from Jiang Cheng and being portrayed as selfish for doing so; I have yet to see a. single. fic. that says Wei Wuxian keeping his sacrifice secret is wrong, but then goes on hold Jiang Cheng equally accountable for keeping his sacrifice secret. Not. One. Jiang Cheng often tells Wei Wuxian afterwards, that he deliberately got the Wens attention, but he's never framed as selfish for keeping that secret. Not. Once.

* see post-Xuanwu argument, when Wei Wuxian drags himself out of his sick bed, having just woken up from a coma, to reassure Jiang Cheng that he's no threat to his birthright. Because Jiang Cheng was jealous that his father acknowledged Wei Wuxian's skill in surviving, under horrendous circumstances. -_-

** childhood flashback; after arriving in a new place, having a massive change in lifestyle and meeting many new people (and, it seems, trying to make a good impression), Wei Wuxian took the blame for his broken leg, despite it being because Jiang Cheng locked him out of his room and threatened to sic dogs on him. Entirely because he knew one of them would get blamed, and he wanted to keep Jiang Cheng happy. People who grow up with aggressive/abusive family/people around often end up learning to juggle mood changes.

#mdzs meta #golden core #Mdzs #Jiang Cheng #Wei Wuxian #grandmaster of demonic cultivation

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ddthebreadboy · 1 year

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The Case of Jiang Cheng's Canon Selective Amnesia

Jiang Cheng at MDZS chapter 59:

"Lan WangJi and Jin ZiXuan and those people can just die! Just let them die! What's their deaths got to do with us?! To do with our sect?! Why did this have to happen?! Why?!

"Go die, go die, go die! Everyone!!!"

And yet Jiang Cheng at MDZS chapter 87:

Jiang Cheng mocked, "Look how forgetful you are. What does unwelcome people mean? Then let me remind you. It was because you played the hero and saved Second Young Master Lan, who's standing beside you right now, that the entire Lotus Pier and my parents went down with you---, "

From blaming Jin Zixuan and Lan Wangji, into blaming Lan Wangji alone🙃🙃

Why?

Duh of course because Jin Zixuan has married his sister🥱

The so called sin of causing a sect to be exterminated can be erased as long as you marry the sister~

Oh. I Forgot to add the REAL thought of Jiang Cheng at MDZS chapter 59:

In his heart, Jiang Cheng knew clearly that back in the cave of the Xuanwu of Slaughter at Muxi Mountain, even if Wei WuXian hadn't saved Lan WangJi, the Wen Sect would have found some reason to come over sooner or later.

Dude knew perfectly why the massacre happened at all. Yet refuse to face reality. C'mon, call some psychologist here, a delusional patient who refuse to see reality may have been spotted.

In addition, the REAL people whom Wen Chao wanted to kill and thus were saved by Wei Wuxian in Xuanwu Cave were (MDZS ch 52):

Wen Chao was enraged, shouting, "How dare you! Kill them!"

A few of the Wen Sect's disciples unsheathed their swords, rushing toward Lan WangJi and Jin ZiXuan.

Yes. It is Lan Wangji and Jin Zixuan.

Not only Lan Wangji but also JIN FUCKINN ZIXUAN!

Alright, next:

Wen Chao looked as if his mood was much better. He spat, "Talking back to me, what did you think you are? People like you really do deserve to be killed."

Who talked back to Wen Chao?

Oh, let's look back a while ago:

Jin ZiXuan lifted his brows, "Is that enough? It wasn't enough for people to be flesh shields for you, and now you want live humans to bleed for you to use as bait?!"

Wei WuXian found this somewhat surprising, So Jin ZiXuan really does have some nerve.

Wen Chao pointed at them, "Are you rebelling against me? Let me warn you, I've been tolerating you for a very long time. Right now, hang the brat up with your own hands! Or else none of the people from your sects can expect to return!"

Jin ZiXuan sneered and refused to budge. Lan WangJi also looked as though he had heard nothing, so motionless that he seemed to be meditating.

Oh MY GOD! The one who angered Wen Chao first and talked back to him, it turned out it was Jin Zixuan all along!

That mighty Heir of the venerated LanlingJin, Jin Zixuan!

My my my...

To think that Jiang Cheng acted as if it was Lan Wangji solely who offended Wen Chao and needed to be saved... But the reality were...🧐🧐

The young and mighty Sandu Sengshou must have problem with hearing and seeing for him to think that the one Wei Wuxian saved is only Lan Wangji, right?

Or maybe Selective amnesia?

Oh!

It is because Jin Zixuan has married the Sister so the "so called sin" Got defaulted🙃

(All Excerpts are from ExRebel FanTrans)

***

JC (toxic ones) Stan: Listen to our babyCheng, Lan Wangji is the reason YunmengJiang got destroyed!

JC throughout the MDZS: It's me~! Hi~! I'm the problem, it's me~! (The one who has problem with hearing, seeing, delusional tendency, plus selective amnesia)

#canon jiang cheng #jiang cheng canon selective amnesia #jiang cheng canon inability to face reality and prefer his own delusion #mdzs #xuanwu cave incident #lan wangji #jin zixuan #wei wuxian #mo dao zu shi #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #its me hi~ im the problem its me~

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ddthebreadboy · 1 year

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In MDZS, Wen Ning can only stay as a fierce corpse who can't even smile properly and can't even shed tears when he's sad.

Oh. Let's blame WWX for it. How inconsiderate. Transforming Wen Ning into fierce corpse without consent. Bah!

---said some infallible man on Earth.

Everything can be blamed onto WWX.

Totally forgetting why Wen Ning died in the first place and had to be revived as fierce corpse.

Totally forgetting those LanlingJin supervisors who had tortured and killed Wen Ning.

Totally forgetting Jin Zixun and LanlingJin who were arrogant and vicious, forcibly arresting the Wen disciples and threw them into the place intended for prisoner of war.

Totally forgetting that even when becoming a fierce corpse Wen Ning is still very happy spending time with his family as long as LanlingJin assholes didn't knock on the door and destroy the Wen remnants happiness.

Yes.

Those self righteous people who diligently nitpick the protagonist so that they can complacently said, "he is not a perfect hero after all!",

Those people are addicted to throwing the big black cauldron of blame onto Wei Wuxian's head.

... While completely forgetting who are the real perpetrator, the main mastermind, of the whole tragedy in the first place.

Wei Wuxian: The man who carry the pot (of blames)

#wei wuxian the man who carry the pot #wen ning #wen qing #wei wuxian #wen remnants #mdzs #mo dao zu shi #grandmaster of demonic cultivation

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ddthebreadboy · 1 year

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Me, a normal person in MDZS.

#probably am just a soy sauce passerby.

#just hearing some bits of the gossip around the big clans

#thinking that, hey, whether it's WWX or LanlingJin, their grievance has nothing to do with me

#just ignore, and don't care too much. Live my own life.

#.... Only for one day, inexplicably getting framed and dragged into LanlingJin corpse experimental ground.

#Fuckkkk your mummmm!! If I knew this I'd go and hug my Wei Ge's thigh and fight 300 rounds with these despicable villains surnamed Jin!!

#people don't go anywhere but a big pot coming from the sky...

#helpless

#im so miserable

#is there any passerby more miserable than me??!!

#im the most miserable #mdzs passerby version #mdzs #mo dao zu shi #grandmaster of demonic cultivation

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ddthebreadboy · 1 year

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Someone said: "Everyone only know how WWX gave his golden core to chengcheng, but they don't know how JC sacrificed his life to lead the Wen away from WWX!"

This, however, ... The only ones who know the golden core transfer are only WangXian, Wen Ning, and perhaps the dead Jin Guangyao...?

Post-canon WangXian did not and would not make a conference, shed some tears, and tearfully announce the golden core transfer to get people's sympathy.

Neither did Wen Ning has the possibility, ability, or reason, to announce the golden core.

So, who is this "everyone knows"?

The readers?

But the readers also know about your chengcheng sacrifice. It is fair and square. Nobody ever got shaded.

So...?

Oh, you feel indignant because WWX didn't feel surprised and touched by chengcheng's sacrifice? Feeling indignant because WWX didn't feel grateful for chengcheng sacrifice?

But even if JC were to say this secret, the ending of MDZS will not change. Because the harm has been done. If anything, it would sound like a cold joke, an utter irony.

Even your chengcheng already know this in his heart:

Just like how the past Wei Wuxian couldn't tell him the truth about giving him the golden core, there's no way for the current Jiang Cheng to tell the truth either.

MDZS Ch 110

That was referring to WWX's reason:

In the beginning, it was precisely because he didn't want to see such a Jiang Cheng that he decided not to tell him.

(...)

Afterwards, it was because Jin ZiXuan and Jiang YanLi died for him that he had no face to let others know.

To tell Jiang Cheng after what happened then would be like shirking responsibility, hurrying to demonstrate that he'd contributed as well. It'd be like telling Jiang Cheng, don't hate me, look, I've also contributed to YunmengJiang Sect too.

MDZS Ch 102

Yup.

Telling WWX that he lost his golden core due to leading the Wen away would sound really ironic at this point, because not only he didn't save WWX at all, but instead causing a bigger trouble and misery to him.

If WWX didn't have the face to say, "don't hate me, I have also contributed to YMJ~" (Which is the truth, whether XuanLi died or alive.)

Does JC have the face to say, "don't be complacent, I lost my core because I wanted to save you!" ? (But WWX got a lot of trouble instead of being saved at all)

It's like how Su She wanted to shoot Xuanwu but due to his poor skill, shot WWX's arm instead.

Does Su She have the face to say, "don't hate me, I originally wanted to help you!" ?

"...." *speechless* I really thank you for your help!

Someone wanted to help a person, but forgot to measure his own ability, causing him to give more problem to the person he wanted to save....

What does it called?

Baby, it is called Heroic Disease :) yes, the exact thing JC often said to WWX.

***

JC (toxic ones) Stan: why didn't everyone know chengcheng sacrifice??

JC throughout MDZS: "It's me~! Hi~! I'm the problem, it's me~!

#mdzs #canon jiang cheng #golden core dispute #wwx doesnt even care about it anymore #he is happy and well whether jc knows about golden core or not #there is no such change #and even if he knows he'd perhaps only sigh and say forget it #even his body has been perished and changed into a new one what is the point of dwelling on the long gone golden core #mo dao zu shi #wen ning #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #it's me hi i'm the problem it's me

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