#Bftc

[thejasontoddarchives]

Purina, or Hill’s Science Diet for the boy?

#god he is so adoptable #jason todd #red hood #dc #red hood/arsenal #<- (issue 5) #battle for the cowl #bftc #gotham war

[thecruellestmonth]

How many times has Jason Todd tried to murder Tim Drake?

Answer: Jason Todd has tried one (1) time to murder Tim Drake AND Damian Wayne. And it was not "The Titans Tower Incident".

Sections:

Attack I: Hush by Jeph Loeb

Attack II: Teen Titans (2003) #29 by Geoff Johns (AKA the "Titans Tower Incident")

Attack III: Battle for the Cowl by Tony Daniel

Hush

Did Jason try to murder Tim in Hush?

Batman #617 (writer: Jeph Loeb)

Jason cuts Tim's neck!

Batman #618 [writer: Jeph Loeb]

...Oh, wait, it actually isn't that bad.

Tim could use some non-urgent stitches, but he is still fully awake and walking on his own two feet. Batman sends Tim back to the Batcave unaccompanied, and tells him to continue working on their case.

♢ Verdict: Nah, Jason did not try to murder Tim in Hush. It wasn't theatrical and climactic enough.

(*Side note: Hush reveals that this Jason is supposedly just an impersonation by Clayface. But Batman Annual #25 later changes the lore so that the real Jason did initially appear here. After the part when the real Jason takes Tim hostage, Batman chases him through a dark and rainy graveyard—and the real Jason then takes the opportunity to switch out with Clayface as his body double. It's confusing, I know!)

Teen Titans (2003) #29

Did Jason try to murder Tim in Teen Titans (2003) #29? (Also known as "THE Titans Tower Incident", as opposed to all the other Titans Tower incidents in which Titans died and the Tower was destroyed.)

Teen Titans (2003) #29 [writer: Geoff Johns]

Jason beats up Tim with a bo staff and punches. No blades or guns involved. Tim blacks out. Tim later wakes up and gets to his feet when the other Titans come to help him.

Raven explains, "Jason was always aggressive. He was determined to one day be better than all of us. Especially Batman." This story confirms that Jason has always been an overcompensating jerkwad, and death didn't make him any nicer—he's bullying Tim in a jealous fit to prove he's better than him, and not out of murderous intent.

Teen Titans (2003) #47 [writer: Adam Beechen] - "The guy attacked all of us once just to prove he was better than me!"

Straight from Tim's own mouth—Jason infiltrated Titans Tower just to bully Tim, not to murder him.

♢ Verdict: Jason EXPLICITLY did NOT try to murder Tim in Teen Titans (2003) #29, also bafflingly known as "THE Titans Tower Incident". He didn't cut Tim's neck or use any bladed implements this time either.

Battle for the Cowl

(Everyone's favorite comic! Mwa-ha-ha-ha-ha! Evil Batman time!)

Did Jason try to kill Tim in Batman: Battle for the Cowl?

Batman: Battle for the Cowl [writer: Tony S Daniel]

Jason shoots 10-year-old Damian in the chest, causing Damian to need eighty-nine stitches and a sizable blood transfusion to save his life.

Jason later stabs Tim in the chest, drags his "rotting corpse" into an alcove in his weird sewer creature lair, crucifies Tim's Batman suit on an honest-to-God actual cross, and brags about killing him to Dick.

But when Jason and Dick come unto the "tomb", they found the stone rolled away, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus, Tim's "body" had risen on the third day vanished.

Tim apparently only survived the blood loss due to some weird technique that allows him to slow his pulse to a near-death state.

♠ Verdict: YEAH, it sure looks like Jason did try to kill 17-year-old Tim AND 10-year-old Damian in Battle for the Cowl!

So remember—next time we bring up the time that Jason tried to kill poor Tim, we ALSO need to hold Jason accountable for trying to brutally murder a ten-year-old little boy and all the trauma that totally definitely caused.

Conclusion: Jason would ONLY try to kill Tim as a dramatic cliffhanger to end the second act of a limited event series in which Jason is the main villain.

Otherwise the production just wouldn't be theatrical enough.

See also: Robin tradition by @arabian-batboy

#Bullying is OK as long as it's Tim Drake #Tim Drake #Batfam #Jason Todd #Damian Wayne #Batboys #Batbros #Batfamily #DC Robin #Batman comics #BftC #Teen Titans comics #panels #Jeph Loeb #Geoff Johns #Adam Beechen #Tony S Daniel #Batkids #Jason and Tim #canon violence #canon blood #canon fratricide I guess #ID in alt #ID in alt text #Also Tim did attack Jason with a crowbar #and Jason did claim self-defense #so maybe we can't say that Jason attempted to murder Tim so much as he merely attempted to brutally kill him in his creepy wet hideout. #Maybe Tim merely counts as a widdle attempted second-degree murder or attempted voluntary manslaughter. 😙

[jasontoddenthusiastt]

Characterization: BFTC

1. Yes, he called Gotham evil. That’s just a fact. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t love her like they’ve been married 64 years.

2. ACAB Jason. He also dislikes how Batman became a brand symbol. “Cause & effect > vague ideas”.

3. Child sidekicks recruited for the wrong reasons + Bruce’s fucked up mentality.

4. I’m not going to complain about them attempting to vilify Jason in the attempting to vilify Jason book. But even worded in this misleading way, the point is that he ultimately believed in solid consequences (which Batman could never deliver on).

Batman: Battle for the Cowl #2 (2009)

5. Yeah, that was shitty. All that talk about how he’s “not a child” because he’s dangerous/“from the streets”.

6. Okay the first part obviously yeah but the second part’s not true lol. We all know it, he knows it. He always wanted to do more to protect Gotham than limit himself to a symbol and a set of hypocritical rules like Batman (refer to #2 & 4 lol).

Batman: Battle for the Cowl #3 (2009)

7. He holds his ground. He doesn’t validate their shitty victim blaming by accepting their “help”. Since they found out Jason was SA’d, they keep using that against him to claim he’s just throwing a tantrum rather than actually trying to do his job. He shuts this down like ‘No, you’re wrong. My point has not changed since I came back to Gotham and I won't change my mind now either. Stop changing the topic.’ Lol

#there’s more in the third issue but this would become a bit too long #my post #but again like I said. aside from how obvious it is that the writers only added the SA to rob Jason’s way of any validity #the other characters’ mindsets are just so fucked and not at all agreeable lol #also maybe it’s just me but if I know for a fact that a miniscule detail was just a bad editorial decision #but the rest of my fav’s characterization is half-decent/pretty funny I can enjoy it for what it is & not whine about how he’s too violent #anyway Jason said fuck influencers and fuck u for becoming one Batman #bftc

[mintacle]

Also I love BftC because Jason works alone, which is supposedly what Batman was about, right?

But here's Dick with the superhero/vigilante side:

Here's Blackmask gathering the villains:

and meanwhile Jason is fulfilling his Utrh goal of being the better Batman and antagonizing both sides on his one-man mission. What is there not to love about him? This man has taken on death himself and overcome it, what's all of Gotham's vigilantes and villains combined to him?

slay, babygirl!

#jason todd #BftC #comic panels

[cleromancy]

i really hate that jason telling dick he killed tim was in bftc bc that could have been so good but instead it was bftc

extended bitching under the cut 🤪

wait actually FIRST OF ALL i just want to say that if jason genuinely believed he straight up killed tim with a single rusty old batarang that broke in a really unfortunate way that would be so funny. like oh my god bruce did you replace me with a child made of actual GLASS?

anyway lmao. like. obviously i reject the entire premise of bftc and the execution of literally everything was so completely borked but its so annoying that there are these seeds of ideas i really *like* like dick lying about what was in bruces will and bruces message for jason being so awful and triggering that jasons just like OKAY NAUGHTY CITIZENS ITS MURDER TIME and ckfkcilfkcpckc honestly tim hitting jason with a crowbar........... theres a lot of fucking potential!!

but first of all dick purposely triggering jason wjth bruces farewell message a *second time* and then after jason falls seemingly to his death being like why didnt jason take my hand 😢 why the fuck do you think Richard. (sorry dick i dont actually blame you for the choices you made when fucking tony daniel was writing you)

bc like dick reaching out offering jason a hand in a way that jason would be unable to accept would have been good too except like actually i wouldn't fucking take dicks hand either in that moment

anyway like the tim thing made no sense and also *if* you want me to believe bruce trained tim to have a physiological rxn that makes him flatline in order to appear dead in response to certain physical stimuli. like *if* you want me to go along with that. Jason would fucking know about it (and for that matter so would dick) and also that pokes a hole in the concept bc if dick knew that bruce had repeatedly made Tim flatline to train his body to automatically do it i think bruce would have died a long fucking time ago. or dick would have done SOMETHING to put a stop to it imo bc that crosses a very clear line

but i just wish it had been like. yeah jasons lying to dick and dick simultaneously does and doesnt believe him instead of the bullshit that happened bc [character rant redacted i dont feel like typing it right this minute]it could have been like so tragic and good bc it would be like. 1) obviously mirroring the joker doing the same thing b4 dick beat him to death and 2) a really tragic thing from jason to fucking lie to dick, who has no evidence to the contrary, bc he wants dick to not believe him

and its like thats why i want jason to reject dicks hand yk. bc he self sabotaged and now he thinks dicks lying about thinking he has the potential to be better or whatever. and instead it reads like dick purposely aired out bruce calling him a failure & broken and going on and on about how giving jason the best years of his life was a *mistake*

anyway im bored of complaining now (for the moment) so ill stop but god damn i really just wish his comic were good instead of bad

wait one final note. like i said earlier i reject the entire premise of bftc bc by necessity it ends with dick in the cowl and cass isnt even there. and well if cass *was* there why the F<UCK would dick get the cowl ykwim... that said i do think like if the comic had made a point that damian needs robin and cass is not in a position to be batman *to* him that could feasibly lead to cass being like "ok 👍 i dont want to look at you anymore tho so I'm going to travel around the world for a few years" (/months in universe). but obviously that is not fjckkng in the comic. also alfred giving damian the suit was so bogus I'm glad everyone pretends dickie did it xjdkcnoxck (i maintain if there was a robin suit in damians size it had to have been dicks idea anyway)

#dc #bftc #lmao

[ok2scream]

this one gave me a lovely opportunity to draw the dnd party! bees’ fantastic turkey circus at your service

#shrieks #pidge #bftc #draweverythingjune2023

[notmoreflippingelves]

Actually going insane over the implications of Jason asking Dick to be the Robin to his Batman in Battle for the Cowl.

Like I initially took it at the purely surface-level of Jason wanting a partner in the general sense. Which made sense, it's a huge responsibility and a lonely one so an assistant/sidekick/partner seems a no-brainer if you can get one.

But then I really thought about it, because Jason is not asking Dick to be his partner in the general sense; he's not even asking Dick to be his Nightwing. He's asking Dick to be his Robin.

And they both know exactly what Jason means: "Be the light to my darkness. Be the smile to my scowl. Be the hope to my fear. "

He's saying "Be 'Robin'; be the embodiment of Love and Justice and Goodness. Be the exceptional person that you have always been. Be the slightly-less exceptional person that I was when I wore your colors. Be the person that I was in the process of becoming and might have been (or might still be), if only Joker hadn't clipped my wings."

He's saying "I am prepared to become vengeance, become the Night. And I will go further than Bruce ever dared to, because it is what is needed. I will be the necessary evil. But you don't have to be. If Batman is Gotham's curse, Robin has always been its blessing. I will be the brutal punishment to our world, and I am asking you to be its incandescent gift."

He's saying, "Be for me, what we were for Him. Be my anchor, my comfort, my hope. Remind me what it's all for, why it's all worth it. And remind yourself as well."

He's saying "Be 'Robin' again--for both of our sakes."

#dick grayson #jason todd #battle for the cowl #jaydick #dickjay #kinda but also not kinda #batman #dcu #otp: be my robin #'we can rule together as just it always should've been with you as my guiding light and conscience' #is that not in essence; a sort of marriage proposal ? #well no but it's not NOT one either if you catch my drift #i should note that i haven't actually read bftc yet and i know it's considered controversial/bad #and considered ooc for pretty much everyone #so i am not even sure if I will like it #but i am still planning on reading it for the jaydick crumbs #and b/c i am using it and knightfall as the primary inspo for my krisnix au #apparently jason does ask tim to be his robin first and that's interesting as well #but honestly a little less powerful/interesting to me at least since jaytim just doesn't interest me as much as jaydick #and honestly i've looked at the panels and it seems a little more genuine when jason asks dick idk #more like 'last chance; i'll let you live if you join me' for tim vs. 'join me because this feels right' for dick #and honestly even with clumsy execution; just the narrative and emotional richness of this scene is still making me absolutely feral #this arc could be complete trash in any and every other way but if it gives me THEMES; i will forgive anything #it's the former english major occupational hazard #*apollo justice voice *: I'M FINE #(narrator voice: she was not in fact fine)

[kittykatninja321]

Jason: so yeah I’m on mood stabilizers now

Tim: for the pit madness?

Jason: 🤨 no it’s cause I’m bipolar. What the fuck is pit madness?

#I am very much team Jason is just normally mentally ill. Bipolar is just a little theory of mine but the ptsd is for SURE #In bftc he experiences what could be called a psychotic break down but since he’s the villain it’s framed as his mental illness being his #fault because he’s broken but he won’t kiss the feet of Saint Batman and accept his help. And funny enough I think Daniels is the 1st #person to use pit madness as an explanation for Jason’s behavior. And then in lost days it’s kinda hinted at #but it’s not used consistently. And because ‘pit madness’ is an inconsistent explanation I am ignoring it and deciding he’s just got #normal mental illness. As one might expect considering everything #Jason Todd #dc

[laufire]

if huntress shoots batman with an arrow that's on him. she caught HIM slipping.

#i had a momentary flashback to bftc of all things (they make a woopsie + weak ass armor... + dick's reaction ig lol) which is TERRIBLE #cause cry for blood is an Actually Good Comic #and also who wants to remember bftc #talking to the void #my thoughts #dc #dc comics #dc thoughts #batman/huntress: cry for blood #helena bertinelli #automatically goes to my list of ''great comic‚ you'll want to punch bruce in it‚ 10/10 would recommend'' favourites <3

[fantastic-nonsense]

just got jumpscared with someone recommending Battle for the Cowl of all things for "good Batfamily characterization"

I really wonder about people sometimes.....

#*head in hands* why would you EVER rec BftC in utter seriousness. HOW is that one of your go-to answers???? #dc fanwank

[mzminola]

Okay chewing on this, two AU ideas:

One: Jason is getting help from Talia (or doing a favor for her) while Deathstroke is doing whatever the hell it is he did to Cass, and Jason comes across this. Jason objects to brainwashing people, and besides, that's the Batgirl he has like zero beef with because Why Would He (Yet), so he intervenes.

Deathstroke regenerates and Jason has Cosmic Punch Won't Let Him Stay Dead Mystical Bullshit, so this gets very messy very fast. Unclear how Cass's No Kill policy plays out against an opponent who regenerates, but considering what she's done to people who don't, and her, uh, everything with her mom, there's a lot of potential for Slade to rapidly come to regret his choices.

Two: during Jason's World Tour of Crime Skills, Talia sent him off to David Cain for some hand to hand combat training. This is instantly apparent to Cass the first time she sees him fight (regardless of circumstances) and Cass has some Feelings about this.

Bonus angst points: the first time Cass sees Jason fight is after her brother kills her, and he moved the same way.

#I like Cass and I like Jason and I like Whump #fic ideas #Slade Wilson should always come to regret his choices #I think we should get Rose involved in Idea One somehow too #DC #Batfam #Cassandra Cain #Jason Todd #I haven't read the Evil Cass arc in full yet so I honestly don't know exactly what went down? #but since this is an AU we can make changes to make it work #not sure if the Cosmic Punch bullshit would actually help in a direct fight #presuming that he died at the end of UtRH and BftC Jason does seem to vanish for a bit when he dies #comes back later with no explanation #but since it's all offscreen we can do whatever fits the fic best

[thecruellestmonth]

Jason Todd + Lazarus Pit side effects

Jason is not influenced by Lazarus Pit side effects for the main part of Red Hood: The Lost Days. His short-term side effects include "sociopathy" and flat affect.

Jason is (almost certainly) not influenced by Lazarus Pit side effects during his villainous stint in Under the Hood (2005-2006) and Under the Red Hood (2010 movie), Outsiders (2007), Green Arrow (2007), and other stories written by Judd Winick.

Jason is possibly influenced by Lazarus Pit madness in other stories not written by Judd Winick—including the Brothers in Blood arc, Teen Titans ("Titans Tower incident" as dubbed by the fandom), Robin, Batman and Robin…

Jason is influenced by Lazarus Pit side effects in Battle for the Cowl by Tony Daniel (2009), according to an interview with the writer.

The Lazarus Pit is a traumatic memory for Jason according to the Rebirth run of Red Hood and the Outlaws (2016) #3. The trauma seems to be a typical response to his disturbing and painful experience of resurrection, not a supernatural effect caused by the Lazarus Pit specifically.

Jason suffers from "Lazarus flashbacks" (implied to be hallucinations) in Injustice 2 (2017).

Jason never used a Lazarus Pit in Batman: Arkham Knight, Batman: The Adventures Continue, Batman: White Knight, and other stories.

Red Hood: The Lost Days # 2 (2010)

RA'S AL GHUL: "You are certain that the Pit has not driven him mad?!" TALIA: "It did not." RA'S AL GHUL: "Perhaps not tonight. Or even tomorrow. It could take weeks, months, decades!"

Red Hood: The Lost Days is a prequel covering Jason's life between waking up in his coffin and storming the Gotham underworld as the Red Hood. Winick takes the opportunity to establish Jason's sanity and willing transformation into a villain, while also planting the possibility of delayed-onset Lazarus Pit madness to explain Jason's volatile characterization under other writers after Under the Hood (2006).

(RHTLD also re-retcons Jason's natural hair color as black, after the 2009 Batman and Robin series briefly retconned him into a natural redhead.)

Batman: Under the Red Hood (2010)

JASON: "Oh, you got to talking to Ra's, huh? Does it make it easier for you to think that my little dip in his fountain of youth turned me rabid… Or is this just the real me?"

In the 2010 movie adaptation of the 2005-2006 Under the Hood comic, Jason mocks the assumption he's acting under the influence of the Lazarus Pit. While there isn't a 100% unambiguous confirmation as to whether that's the case, the context seems to dismiss any outside influence on Jason's actions.

"Behind Batman: Battle for the Cowl Part Two" - Dan Phillips interviews Tony Daniel (2009)

TONY DANIEL: "Jason was always a little bit more on the reckless, daring side, and he obviously has a screw loose after coming back from the Lazarus Pit. When you do come back from the Lazarus Pit, you're not one hundred percent right in the head, and Jason really wasn't all that right in the head to begin with."

According to this 2009 interview with IGN, Tony Daniel wrote Battle for the Cowl (2009) with the premise that Jason's mind has been corrupted by the Lazarus Pit.

Red Hood and the Outlaws (2016) #3

JASON: It's like [Bizarro is] coming to life right in front of us. ...And I know firsthand what that feels like. The Lazarus Pit. Not unlike this guy--I didn't have any say in what was happening to me. It might not be a popular thought--but not everyone wants to be alive. I remember that feeling--waking up... feeling like I was going to drown even as I was being reborn. Feeling like I had no right to come back to this world."

Jason is deeply disturbed and traumatized by his resurrection, but the Lazarus Pit itself doesn't seem to have tampered with his mind.

Injustice 2 (2017)

The powerful healing waters of the Lazarus Pit brought Jason Todd back to life. However, the power of the Pit comes at a cost, and a change takes hold in Jason.

RED HOOD (battling another Red Hood player): "I'm having another Lazarus flashback."

[jasontoddenthusiastt]

Batman: Battle for the Cowl (2009)

He is beautiful and correct. And his muzzle is a .…. repurposed cheese grater.

He’s perfect

#marry me Jason I will always do right by you #my post #miss Nocturna I saw you for like 2 seconds pls come back and take your son they’re mistreating him again #‘he’s too unhinged’ first of all you’re wrong second of all I’d rather have him have his peace of mind and cause organized chaos #on his own terms than see him get the rag doll treatment he keeps getting in modern comics. any day. #he doesn’t need fixing and he certainly doesn’t need to kill less #anyway he’s doing all the signature cryptid batman stances too #he’s having his fun #he built his own little batcave. with bat-eared batcomputers. #I have to make a post about Jason still having underlying respect and admiration for Bruce/Batman during this era #it’s amusing sure #but babygirl why. #batman jason #dc #bftc #comic panels

[mintacle]

some people get so upset about Batman Jason. :(

Not me, though. I'm enabling it. Go babygirl!!

Jason is very dramatic/theatric in BftC and it is wonderful. He's just having fun while everyone else is angsting and I love it.

#jason todd #BftC #comic panels

[cleromancy]

tim going from "jason gave his life for this uniform" to "jason was reckless and got himself killed" over the years would have been SUCH a fascinating character development if it had been done like. On purpose abd not just as part of the greater victim blaming narrative retcon lol

#one of these days i will do a canon rewrite and then you will realize. #but also like #titans tower + that one arc in robin + bftc rewrites where tim is expecting jason to be ummmmmm #well. bruce and dick have told him a lot about jason over the years #and absolutely all of it contributes to tim becoming very friendly with the floor #(<- dont blame dickie bruce forgor to introduce the new dog to him through the door and their relationship didnt have time to recover b4+ #jason fucking DIED) #dc #jaytim #yeah this is a ship post. they r cosmically intertwined in all my posts. hope this helps #text #timothy jackson goodtimes drake #jaytim text #tim text

[cologona]

Jason, still in his hospital gown dhoti, holding up a drawing: What do you think? Evocative, no?

Sasha, in Russian: <…that’s so hideous I don’t even know what I’m looking at.>

Jason, also in Russian: <You really think so? The skull logo is a placeholder but I thought it worked pretty well on its own.>

Sasha: !

Sasha: <The skull is fine... But get rid of that helmet… and the cape.>

Sasha: <I know a little bit about fashion. That is not what you want to… “Evoke”.>

#AU where Jason meets Sasha BEFORE making the stupid pill-head costume #Jason’s wearing a hospital gown because he met Sasha as a fellow patient #BFTC ended with the man falling off a fucking bridge #it makes no sense for him to show up out of nowhere fit as a fiddle #Jason Todd #scarlet sasha