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halemerry · 8 months

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hii first of all, i absolutely love your metas on GO s2! your breakdown of the last few minutes of ep6 was really insightful and i love you for your meta about aziraphale and his role as a protector - it is a very astute look into his character and motivations which not a lot of people acknowledge in their theories/speculation after s2.

more to the point of this ask: this is something i've been mulling over and is the only thing that still doesn't make sense to me in ep6. why is crowley so nonchalant, or at least not noticeably worried, about the metatron showing up to the bookshop (a space he is very protective of) and taking aziraphala away for a talk after aziraphale has already been threatened by micheal? throughout the whole season crowley has been extremely protective over aziraphale and is very much aware of the real danger he is in (re: the book of life). this is also right after crowley has returned from heaven and has learned what the metatron was willing to do to gabriel to ensure 'institutional integrity' and that much bigger plans were afoot. i find it hard to wrap my head around his calm demeanor when the metatron enters the scene and takes aziraphale away, even if it's supposedly for a harmless talk. i wonder if you have any thoughts/speculation about this?

(opps this got too long and rambling). i would love to hear your thought but ofc please don't feel pressured to answer :) love your posts about the season and i look forward to reading more from you. have a lovely day!

Hi!! Thank you so much! This ask has had me by the throat basically since you sent it. It sort of touches on some things I already wanted to write about so forgive me if this spirals a bit.

So in a lot of ways I think this is a question that can have a one word answer. But since I do wanna talk about the way the show gives us this answer I actually want to start with Nina. Specifically I want to start with the thing she tells Crowley as Aziraphale’s off with the Metatron.

“You’re the hard bitten one that can’t trust anyone ever again and Mr. Wherever He Is is the soft one that still believes in magic people being basically good and all that."

I’ve talked a little bit about this line before in my meta about the build up to the Confession here because I think it’s important to view from the perspective of how it preps Crowley for the following conversation he’s about to have. But, aside from that, I think it's really important because it's wrong. Nina is describing herself here, not Crowley. She’s projecting her own issues onto him and Aziraphale in the way that she perceives herself relating to them. Crowley himself is actually the one that calls out her trust issues for what they are explicitly.

Nina doesn’t trust and she sees herself in Crowley far more than Aziraphale both in demeanor and aesthetic so she assumes he doesn’t trust either. But she has it backwards. Because Crowley isn’t hard bitten as much as someone who tries very hard to be perceived as such. And, most importantly in this specific context, Crowley actually trusts quite a bit.

And he nearly always has. Even as far as back as the Starmaker.

Just look at the way that the Starmaker and Aziraphale both talk about interacting with God. Aziraphale is nervous, anxious and pretty much immediately clocks that what the angel that would become Crowley is saying is going to get him into trouble. But the Starmaker? Even upset about the information he’s been given, he remains confident in the fact that it can’t hurt to ask a few questions. He trusts there to be no consequence for expressing an objection. He trusts that his opinion is valued. Even if he ends up wrong here there’s no inclination at all that he thinks his words will be taken inappropriately. And even the Fall itself doesn’t burn this out of him.

We see him trust Aziraphale, the cherub who was supposed to be guarding Eden from things like him, not to smite him on sight. And trusts him enough to not only have a conversation but express his own worries about his own actions. He then approaches Aziraphale like a friend at the Flood and makes no attempt to censor his horror at what is happening there.

Job is the first time we see Crowley act in a way that implies mistrust between them. This is the first time they’ve met since the Flood which I suspect is contributing to his reluctance to be honest with Aziraphale here. They fall into their roles and then very rapidly fall out of them. The fact Azriaphale reaches out to Crowley here is important. As is the moment where Crowley asks Aziraphale if he’s sure. After Aziraphale more or less agrees to be all in something changes. Crowley is surprisingly honest about his view on the world, mostly trusting Aziraphale not to use it against him. He places himself in front of a host of angels, trusting that Aziraphale would not expose him. And then later he’s even more honest, admitting to Aziraphale he’s lonely in an attempt to show solidarity.

The entire Arrangement could not exist without them trusting each other. Crowley’s pushing at Aziraphale’s boundaries is a constant exercise in trusting that Aziraphale will come around eventually - or that he at the very least isn’t about to weaponize the treacherous things Crowley is saying against him. As early as 1601 we see Aziraphale voicing active concern for Crowley's well being. We then see Crowley actively trust Aziraphale with both their safeties in 1941 - whether it’s trusting Azriaphale to save them from the bomb about to drop on them or trusting Aziraphale’s trust in him to not accidentally discorporate him during the bullet catch. They even explicitly talk about their mutual trust in this year during their shades of gray conversation.

During Armageddon Crowley shows up trusting that Aziraphale will help him fix this and once Aziraphale agrees never once seems to consider the idea that Aziraphale would hide anything from him (even when Aziraphale is actively doing so).

He also critically knows that Aziraphale tried to reach God and got himself discorporated as a consequence. And likely specifically knows that Aziraphale talked to the Metatron and came away from that conversation realizing that Heaven would not help him. It's worth noting whether Crowley knows this bit or not that in this conversation Aziraphale not only explicitly questions the Metatron's authority but also uses the conversation to extract information from the Metatron.

Aziraphale leaves this conversation with an active lie to the Metatron and attempts to call Crowley to tell him everything he knew. He then continually chooses Crowley over Heaven. They pick their own side and help stop the world from ending.

And then, all season, Aziraphale keeps proving that the trust Crowley has always had in him is well earned. Aziraphale, even more than Crowley himself, brings up ideas of 'us' and 'our side' and 'our car'.

Aziraphale openly talks negatively of Heaven. Not only does he agree with Crowley's disbelief that Heaven managed to stay in charge sending people like Muriel down, but he even goes a step further, implying that they perhaps never had control over earth in that way.

He also, most critically, immediately and without hesitation, tries to turn down the Metatron's offer to even have a conversation. Aziraphale, who has also just brought a group of archangels to order, reaffirms his lack of interest in Heaven right then and there in front of Crowley. Right when the Metatron has reaffirmed the threat of the Book of Life is out of play.

Crowley trusts Aziraphale. He always has. And more than ever lately Aziraphale has given him proof that he doesn't have to worry about where he allegiances lay.

But. It's also worth noting. I don't think Crowley is as chill as he maybe seems like he is. Yes, he's sprawled out and speaking casually here, but to some degree this is a bit of posturing. He's playing it cool and also not encroaching on the control Aziraphale has managed to wrangle on this situation. But he also doesn't just let them wander off either. As soon as they hit the door, Crowley is out of the chair and walking to the front of the shop to watch them leave through the window. He's keeping tabs as they walk away.

He then banishes Muriel and promptly starts to clean. Now I'm always a little wary to mix Book and Show canon, but I do think his cleaning of the bookshop (as well as him carrying around stacks of books while babysitting Jim) are manifestations of Book!Crowley's tendency to want to stress clean. He's keeping himself busy and gets done too quickly then promptly glances at his watch before throwing himself into the chair with a frustrated noise. He's anxious and stressed the entire time Aziraphale is out of his line of sight.

In other words, Crowley's not actually as calm as he's presenting himself to be. He's trying to take that nervous energy out in a way that doesn't conflict with giving Aziraphale agency. Because he trusts his angel. And that in part is why it hits him so hard when it all blows up in his face.

#good omens #crowley #good omens meta #good omens spoilers #gos2 spoilers #good omens season 2 #answers #oh yeah this got waaaay long #oops

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alecscudder1987 · 9 months

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ive just had a thought. see ive been joking as much as the next person about the ineffable beurocracy getting their shit together after 3 dates while it took aziraphale and crowley since literally before time was invented BUT it's quite literally just privilege.

you saw the shot where aziraphale grabs crowley's shoulder just after beelzebub and gabriel declare their love--this level of visibility is unprecedented, and something he and crowley have never been able to afford. while they (and we) might have softened to not-gabriel throughout the season, the second gabriel is gabriel again, he uses his position and leaddrship weight as archangel to fuck right off with his beloved. which, good for him.

but to aziraphale and crowley, this is fucking bonkers information. they spent their entire existences compromising on their relationship in order to not...be compromised. and gabriel just up and speed-runs dating the enemy because the worst consequence he faces is getting fired. gabriel and beelzebub never face consequences for their relationship, so of course it goes off without a hitch. no one looking over your shoulder because you're the guy looking over everyone's shoulder.

while im thankful they fucked off to alpha centuri so i don't ever have to see gabriel's smug face again, i do wonder if the "going off together" is really the good relationship A & C ought to model. if it's a happy foil to miserable wee morag and her girlfriend from the minisodes, it's still not what i believe crowley and aziraphale are going to do.

they've spent all of time becoming increasingly codependent, and while that's fun and all for a while, crowley and aziraphale really need their little human mundanities. going on walks. getting dinner. going for a drive to blow off steam. their path is getting distinctly more human-looking, and i think someday they're going to have to reckon with the idea of letting other people into their lives.

to bring it back to my first point, i've just been thinking about WHY crowley and aziraphale are Like That, when we've been presented with a new couple who most certainly isn't, and it made me think about it in terms of power. they have leverage, but they built it for themselves by learning everything about earth their superiors didn't know, getting a leg up anywhere they can. gabriel and beezlebub don't need a leg up. they have it. they're stepping on your chest and brushing dust from their costs as you try to climb past the first stone.

you could also look at it like queer versus straight relationships. queer relationships are often by circumstance somewhat secretive and full of codes and longing glances and not-talking-about-your-feelings BECAUSE it might get you into trouble. straight relationships often don't have this problem (though they might have others relating to other intersecting & marginalized identities) so they can get straight away into the declaring it part.

TL;DR beezlebub and gabriel got hitched immidiately while it took crowley and aziraphale all of time to kiss because the ineffable beaurocracy has about a million times more power and a billion times less consequences for getting caught about it than the ineffable husbands do.

#holy shit this got long i meant for it to be like 3 sentences maximum #this fandom does things to my brain and it is rapidly waking the special interest back up #i literally am already writing a fic i feel insane #good omens #go spoilers #good omens s2 #ineffable husbands #ineffable bureaucracy #good omens meta #james jabbers

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drconstellation · 22 days

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Aziraphale-Beelzebub Parallels

Aziraphale's Edinburgh Journey: Part 2

I've already written a series on how Crowley and Gabriel act as parallels and foils to each other in S2. Their other halves - their partners - also act as each other's parallels. I mentioned this briefly in the second post in that series, but here we need to expand on this.

We also need to talk about Maggie.

I think most people identify that there is good case for a many parallels between Aziraphale and Maggie as well. But when you consider Aziraphale-Beelzebub-Maggie together in a character triangle, Maggie suddenly starts to make a lot more sense. And I believe there is one more peculiar element thrown in that she is reflecting back to us as well about Aziraphale that has made her particularly hard to understand on top of all that.

But let's look at the Aziraphale-Beelzebub related parallels first.

They hold the highest ranking position

Beezlebub holds the highest ranking position in Hell under Satan, as the Grand Duke. They leave a vacancy at the end of the series, that we are yet to see filled.

For most of S2 the Supreme Archangel is missing - and it is only right at the end that we see Aziraphale step up and accept the offered role.

Two things to mention here:

One might argue that the Metatron is higher in ranking than the Supreme Archangel, but for purposes of this discussion he doesn't seem to have much to do with the day-to-day running of things like the Supreme Archangel would. Gabriel was also the one who appeared on the tarmac at Tadfield Airbase opposite Beelzebub when things weren't going to plan in S1.

Secondly, this is where I would like to start introducing the concept that we are being shown Aziraphale's future story in S2. Such as Aziraphale's future role as Supreme Archangel, however long he holds on to it.

I don't know how difficult it will be to demonstrate this as we go along from here, but I'm going to try and point out places where I think we are being shown glimpses of the future - foreshadowing - and a lot of them come through Maggie. Not all, though, there are exceptions, but we'll discuss them in due course. Such as in the next parallel.

They need words of affirmation

Crowley isn't the most loquacious character but he's not shy of boosting his angel's ego when it's needed. Whether it's encouraging Aziraphale to go big on stage in 1941 or supporting his detective efforts in Edinburgh Crowley is still going to put in a good word or two for Aziraphale's sake.

AZIRAPHALE: [over phone]: I think I've found some clues. And do you remember the statue of Gabriel in the graveyard in Edinburgh? I'm looking at it now. CROWLEY: Mmm, good job. AZIRAPHALE: Oh, do you really think so?

We know Beelzebub needs words of affirmation as well because they ask Demon Josh this:

BEELZEBUB: Do you ever think, wouldn't it just be nice if someone told you what a good job you're doing? DEMON JOSH: In hell? BEELZEBUB: Yeah.

Hang on, just a minute...Demon Josh...?

The demon who appears to be acting as the Personal Assistant/Secretary to the Grand Duke of Hell?

There is an old thread that points out that Greasy Johnson's name is basically another form of Jesus Christ. The TL:DR version is that Joshua aka Oily Josh is another form of Jesus.

So Beelzebub has Demon Jesus as her assistant.

Remember I was trying to tell you we are seeing future echoes of Aziraphale's story in S3 here? Jesus as the right hand of the Supreme Archangel, perhaps?

They give gifts

A S1 crossover, Beelzebub gives Gabriel the Tardis-like fly storage container, and Aziraphale gives Crowley the thermos of holy water in 1967 to stop the crazy caper he was planning to steal some. Both acts were done unprompted at the time.

They enjoy music

We've seen Aziraphale with his phonograph in action several times, and in S2E1 we see him in the midst of listening to the Shostakovitch records he got from Maggie when the arrival of Gabriel interrupts him.

We learn Beelzebub also has an ear for a good tune when they mention they like the song they hear in the American bar during the recap scenes of their meetings with Gabriel in S2E6.

They make an offer of "betterment" to Crowley

Beelzebub's offer to Crowley that he could be a Duke of Hell if he finds Gabriel for them, all while he is lounging across the two horned thrones in S2E1, is widely seen as a prominent piece of foreshadowing for S3.

Really, the only question should be is will that be just a plain Duke or will he somehow end up in the Grand Duke of Hell position opposite of Aziraphale?

Aziraphale also made an offer to Crowley - to restore him to angelic status.

At the time, neither offer was accepted with any enthusiasm - especially the latter.

They have a date at Gabriel's statue

I have pointed out elsewhere that this is a triple-parallel with a shot from Before the Beginning, but then I remembered that the parallel with Aziraphale looking jealously at angel!Crowley was written after this date pair with Gabriel's statue.

I intend to talk about the significance of the statue in Part 4: Judgement Day, as it makes a bridge between all three seasons and it needs some thorough and lengthy discussion around it.

They go to the pub

This is another triple-parallel between the two pairs. (I think @kayleefansposts first brought this up but I can't find the post it comes from now, even though it wasn't that long ago.)

First, they both meet in a cafe:

Then they meet in a pub:

And lastly, they meet - well, lets say with alcohol on the table and an option of food?

Their partners make a reference to the absurd creativity of humanity

For some time I wondered why when Crowley came back from the pub with Aziraphale, he plucked the Jane Austen off the shelf and shouted that inane line at humanity: "You people, I will never get the hang of you lot."

Eventually I realized it was a parallel moment to when just before Gabriel miracles the jukebox in the Resurrectionist to play Every Day the first time.

GABRIEL: What's that? BARTENDER: A classic 1960s jukebox. You don't see many of them these days. You just put your money in and tell it what you want to hear. GABRIEL: Oh… You people. Amazing. [hands over money] [miracles] Ha!

Both incidences are inspired by their partners - Aziraphale inspires Crowley to look for Austen's novels and Gabriel miracles the jukebox to play the music that Beelzebub likes.

Their partners accidentally leave them on their own

Crowley was only going to take the human shopkeepers to safety, then return - but he got sidetracked with Muriel all the way up to Heaven. Thinking he would be back soon, Aziraphale didn't plan very far ahead, and that eventually led to a problem - and a long, anxious wait for the demon's return.

On his way out of Heaven, Gabriel was on his way to Hell and Beelzebub - we presume. But as soon as he put himself in the fly, he forgot, and headed to the next most memorable location in his remaining working neurons, which happened to be on Earth. Beelzebub was left wondering where he was - and very alone down there in Hell while their minions were out searching for him. @noneorother shows what happens to the thrones while they wait.

So, about Maggie, then...

Understanding Aziraphale and Beelzebub as a parallel pair helps us to understand Maggie a little better, as Maggie is actually a mix of the two characters, reflecting both of them back at the same time. I think that is why she sometimes seems like an angel and a demon at the same time - because she actually is!

I believe this would also explain the "ugrency" spelling mistake, as well as putting an emphasis on the word urgency itself for us. What is becoming urgent?

For example, Maggie always wears a combination of colours from both characters. Here we can Maggie is wearing Beelzebub's signature colours of orange and light blue, but with a white background as the angelic component.

At the ball, she wears a blue blouse - blue is a colour associated with Heaven - but its a dark, demonic shade of blue.

She tries to give a gift to Nina, that doesn't quite work, but the thought and effort is there. She's very forgiving. And she says she says she'll still be there when Nina is ready to start seeing her again; she's reflecting the future Aziraphale to us.

She doesn't want to leave the scene of danger with Crowley when its offered (sounds familiar, doesn't it? Let's go to Alpha Centauri - No! I Can't!)

She's done with being scared, she's ready to stand up and be brave and fight.

She doesn't want to leave Aziraphale on his own (even though Aziraphale still has faith Crowley will turn up any minute now and have a plan - !!) She comes up with ideas on how to fight back. This is someone who steps forward and takes control. These all look like future echoes and set-ups for parallels in S3 to me.

There's another line that no one ever talks about that I've always thought was a foreshadowing line that Crowley says to Nina:

NINA: He's never hosted a meeting, ever. Why the change of heart? CROWLEY: He's unpredictable. He's discovered his civic obligations.

The parallel to this comes from Maggie, when Crowley goes to tell her its time for the meeting/Ball, she says she never misses a meeting. If that's not part of fulfilling your "civic obligations" I don't know what is.

If there was one aspect of Beelzebub I would perhaps just mention here briefly, but not discussing at length because I want to do it elsewhere again as well, is that they twice show restraint of their power and authority - they don't pull Crowley in for punishment as a traitor, even though they could (they pulled him down to Hell for a chat pretty easily) and they don't bother to rip out Demon Josh's tongue and send him to the dung heaps that day for being talkative and annoying, even though we get the impression it happens on a regular basis. In contrast, Aziraphale and Maggie both step up a bit and take some authority on themselves towards the end.

The lists above are not exhaustive of all the parallels between the three characters, but I hope it helps to get you started in thinking about them in a different way to how you might have been.

Next we try to tie the past<-present->future parallels together as we start getting our hands dirty.

The other posts in this series can be found here:

Part 1: Detective Aziraphale Part 3: Stocktaking in the Basement Part 4: Judgement Day Part 5: I Know Where I'm Going

#good omens #good omens 2 #good omens meta #aziraphale #beelzebub #maggie #demon josh #duke of hell crowley #oily josh #supreme archangel aziraphale #you people #i wont leave you on your own #discovering your civic duties #staying behind to die bravely #he's unpredictable

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mirrormazeworld · 8 months

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Twst Analysis and Findings Why Crowley isn't Malleus's Dad, Unpopular Chapter 5 Diasomnia Twst Theory

While 99.9% of people seem to be convinced that Crowley is Levan, I'm that 0.01% who is still not convinced yet because there are some things that I found really odd if Crowley is Malleus's dad. So odd that this post itself has become a long post.

If you search for something and want to read where Crowley isn't Levan/Malleus's dad, then this theory and analysis is for you because here I'll explain some points for your considerations before jumping to conclusions, though I'm not sure if anyone will care about what I write and hear this small opinion at this point.

1. Heavily implied "another dragon from another country"

In Diasomnia chapter 4, it's said from Lilia's dialogue that "Draconia clan are the descendants of the dragons". All this time we might think that "Draconia are the only dragon in Twisted Wonderland" but in chapter 5 it's revealed that Draconia aren't the only dragon in Twisted Wonderland because there are other dragon clans from faraway country.

Malleus's dad, Levan's title is 竜眼公 in Japanese and it can be translated literally as "Dragon Eye Lord" or "Longan Lord". (More about his title, you can see it in my previous post)

If we see it the way like how longan fruit is named, (龍眼) either 龍眼 or 竜眼 still have the same meaning, but the only difference is 龍眼 is from Cantonese while 竜眼 is from Japanese.

But the main points in common are : They are both "Dragon Eye" and "Eastern Countries"

Which means there's a high possibility that Levan is a dragon from the longan clan/eastern dragon clan.

What's more interesting is that Lilia seems to be very fond of this "Long/Eastern Dragon" that he wants to spend the rest of his life there in their homeland. Out of all the countries he can and had ever visited, why did he choose "Red Dragon Country" in particular?

In first Halloween event Diasomnia also went with the theme of Long and it's revealed that it was Malleus's idea himself with Lilia providing more information about the Eastern Dragon Country culture and the Longs. And then there's that one dialogue said by Lilia himself in the Halloween Event :

"In fact, one such Long became a family's guardian spirit"

It is somehow similar to Levan who has been like a guardian to Meleanor and his draconia family, as her husband, her Left General alongside Lilia (Right General), and her most trusted person (Meleanor's Eyes and Limbs)

If it's not a subtle information but also kind of important that it's heavily implied many times just like Malleus who froze the time in Endless Halloween then I don't know what it is.....

2. Discarded Character Concept (?)

In twst exhibition there's an initial concept art of Crowley where he seems to have a similar theme and is somehow grouped with Diasomnia. It's because he had the same color as that of Diasomnia, even you can see the thorns on his leg and arm which as we know, is the symbol of Diasomnia/related to Draconia family (Sleeping Beauty Squad)

However, if we compare Crowley's old design and his original, usual one, in the design of the Crowley that we know now, twst seems to actually change every Diasomnia/Sleeping Beauty concept out of him and replace it all, from "thorns" to "mirrors" and "golden keys", and leave only the "corvid" part of him.

The question is, Why did Yana and twst team go into such trouble to change him all the way?

In Diasomnia Chapter 4 it's revealed that "Briar Kingdom has two castles : Black Scale Castle (Briar Valley's Main/Capital Castle) and Wild Rose Castle (Meleanor's Castle)

Diasomnia chapter is heavily tied with Wild Rose Castle rather than Black Scale Castle and places the main casts of Diasomnia chapter in Wild Rose Castle rather than Black Scale Castle and wrote Meleanor as Princess rather than a Queen. I know Diasomnia chapter was written with Sleeping Beauty as its story frame, and Meleanor is supposed to take the role of Maleficent in that story, but the question is why they created two castles and used Wild Rose Castle as the main background of the story rather than just create and use one castle, and give the title "Princess" to Meleanor and not a "Queen" since Maleficia, Malleus's grandma is the Queen? In the original and older version of sleeping beauty by Brothers Grimm, "Maleficent" is depicted as a Queen who is jealous of Talia (Sleeping Beauty) and not a Princess. It's as if they want to separate what is "exclusively Diasomnia chapter" from Briar Valley/Briar Kingdom itself.

This is honestly only my personal opinion, but based on these facts, the only logical, possible explanation I can think of is because they want to give this Diablo/Diaval's role to this Lord Longan so that Crowley can play a more bigger role rather than just a diplomat/messenger, and thus, discarded the old Crowley concept and made it invalid.

Thinking the old design as the valid source of information means that you want to tell people that "Epel with skirt and Idia as the little brother are canon" but are they now? Do twst used that concept in the end? Does Epel wear skirt in game and Idia is Ortho's little brother? Of course not, and you already saw it yourself that Yana already discarded that idea completely.

3. A seemingly Disastrous Chronology if Levan is Crowley

With the given information from in game, I want you to think with logic here :

Lilia is 700 years old. NRC gave him a letter of acceptance 500 years ago, but then he ripped it, and then Levan taped it back and stored it in royal archives. Silver said they are in Lilia's dream from 400 years ago and as we know this is when the war between faes and Silver Owl occurred, and at that time it's said that Levan was missing.

Now what I find odd is : if Levan is Crowley, then who sent the NRC acceptance letter to Lilia? We all know the Headmaster is in charge of student admission just like how he permitted Yuu and Grim to become NRC students, sending letters to people acknowledged by dark mirror, persuading Kalim's family, letting Ortho enroll even though he is an android and so on. And if Crowley is Levan, he wouldn't be able to do his job as Headmaster in Land of Dawning because he would need to be present in Briar Valley by Lilia's side to tape back the letter Lilia had torn to shreds.

Keep in mind that there are no official exact years and number from twst itself how long Crowley had been headmaster of NRC yet but from Diasomnia chapter it's clear that NRC already existed back then far before the war between humans and fae.

This one is just my personal opinion, but I'm more convinced that Crowley was the one who cast complex, ancient spell on Grim and therefore, know something about the extremely rare overblot incident that seems to always happen in NRC (and so we heard his voice summoning Yuu and said "we are all running out of time" in the prologue") and so he is tied more heavily to book 8 (Ramshackle/NRC) after Diasomnia if it does exist in the future than book Diasomnia.

Both The Watcher from Island of Woe (Idia's family) and the primeval spell that casted on Grim which seems to be similar to Shroud family's curse were from when the nature of overblot was not known yet and was considered as natural disaster, dated back to the "Age of Gods" which is approximately 1000 years ago.

But then you might think "Oh maybe Crowley had lived that long and pretended to be Levan to play his role." This is impossible because Lilia, Meleanor and Levan are childhood friends and well, Lilia said it himself that they were still children, besides Lilia is 700 years old and not 1000 years old.

Therefore I don't think Crowley is Malleus's Dad, Levan. But if someone said "Crowley was Maleficia's (Malleus's grandma) subordinate, then I can believe them because that way it will be possible for him to exist since the Age of Gods.

And perhaps this is also the reason why Yana and twst teams purposely wrote Diasomnia story with two castles and used Wild Rose Castle as the main background scene in the story rather than just created and used one castle, because they do wanted to separate it and created a place exclusively to tell Diasomnia story so it wont disturb the other plot of the other story and create a plot hole as a whole.

And so that's all the many reasons why I don't think Crowley is Malleus's Dad. Unless someone can answer the questions that had been swirling around my head because of how absurd Crowley is Malleus's Dad theory is which I had been marked with red color in this post and explained it logically or the official told it themselves then I won't be convinced.

#twisted wonderland #twst theory #dire crowley #twst crowley #twst thoughts #malleus draconia #twst malleus #twst lilia #lilia vanrouge #twst levan #personally I think Crowley is Malleus's Dad theory is so absurd #unpopular opinion #twst spoilers #twst chapter 7 spoilers #twst chapter 7

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david-talks-sw · 1 year

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Okay so I watched Inside Man on Netflix. It's interesting. More importantly, it's a masterclass in crafting likeable characters and how the POV we follow in a scene affects the way we see a character. Also, this somehow relates to the Star Wars Prequels, I promise! 😆

The moral of the series is that "everyone is a murderer, all it takes is a good reason and a bad day." The main characters are:

A vicar who - through a huge misunderstanding - has now locked his son's tutor in his basement and doesn't know how to get out of this situation, played by David Tennant.

A convicted murderer and ex-criminal psychology professor who solves crimes from his cell, as he waits for his execution, played by Stanley Tucci.

So a man who locked a woman in his cellar and a guy who murdered his wife. In any other movie, these guys are the villains. Yet, both of these characters are extremely likeable!

This is achieved through how relatably they behave in their relationships (kind, humble, humorous)...

... and through the emotion and/or charisma brought by the actors playing them (it's THE DOCTOR/CROWLEY and Stanley Friggin' Tucci)... but also through the amount of screen time they get.

We're with them for most of the show. There's other characters (the journalist, the trapped tutor and the vicar's wife) and subplots, of course, but they're our two anchors.

So when I'm watching David Tennant lock his son's tutor in his cellar and consider if he should free her - only to see him and his wife make things worse - I'm not thinking "you monster" like I do when I see Buffalo Bill in Silence of the Lambs for example.

No, I'm thinking "goddammit vicar you're making things worse, it'll come back to haunt you, there's still a chance to turn back, please!" I'm rooting for him to make the right choice because I'm seeing him struggle and despair and hesitate throughout many scenes.

When I'm watching Stanley Tucci guiltily say he deserves death, after being so darn charming, humble and in clear possession of a moral compass, my instinct as a viewer isn't to go "he's right".

It's to go "aaaw, no it's fine, everyone makes mistakes."

And these characters remain likeable and/or relatable for a huge chunk of time... until, every once in a while, the show reminds you that, "remember, these guys are criminals."

"One of them's killed his wife then decapitated her, and the other one is contemplating murder, so they did/are doing evil stuff, they're the villains and you shouldn't grow fond of them."

Then it goes back to making you empathize with them again.

It's quite the emotional roller-coaster, very intriguing yet frustrating, which I have to guess is exactly what the show is going for.

But the point is: the amount of time we spend with these characters is partially what elicits this emotional reaction out of us.

If we consider the tutor's character:

For all intents and purposes, we should feel sorry for her, or full-on fucking love her. Objectively-speaking, she's:

smart but obviously scared,

we establish early on that she has a brave heart and stands up for oppressed women,

she thinks she's trapped by a pedophile or a man defending a pedophile, figures he'll inevitably try to murder her, yet manages to stay resourceful, determined and cool-headed despite it all.

She's an absolute superhero.

But that's not how the narrative frames her.

She's framed as an antagonistic force, in the vicar's subplot.

She may be the one tied up in a basement, but she's in control and the vicar is not. She's almost framed as being in a position of power (when she's really not), which leads the audience to view Tenant's vicar as an underdog.

When the vicar is trying to look for alternatives to end this situation so that he doesn't have to kill her, she's unhelpful,

and even starts pitting the vicar and his wife against each other.

Again, in-universe, she's scared shitless and in "fight-or-flight" mode. She's putting up a front because she's just trying to get outta this alive. She's the victim, here, not the vicar who captured her.

But as a viewer, you don't feel that, despite objectively knowing that. Why and how?

Because we barely see this character, compared to Tenant's vicar. So we have more time to grow to feel for him. There's "why".

Also 90% of what we do see of the tutor is her being aggressive, manipulative, sometimes downright merciless and we're seeing her from the POV of the vicar or the vicar's wife. There's "how".

Result: the viewer feels sorry for the captor and frustrated towards the captive.

This isn't a rational reaction, it's an emotional one (the goal of any visual artform being to get an emotional reaction out of the viewer).

Which means the series and Stephen Moffat effectively did their job.

How does this relate to the Prequels?

Well, a lot of people see the Jedi in a negative light in the Prequels, and Anakin in a more sympathetic one.

Even though the Prequels are about how a good man becomes bad, and even though the Jedi embody one of the major Star Wars themes (selflesness) as opposed to Anakin who clearly displays the anti-theme (selfish)... a majority of fans feels more for the latter than the former. Why?

Because the Prequels unintentionally do what Inside Man does purposefully. You react to Anakin like you react to the vicar. You react to the Jedi like you react to the tutor.

Simply put: Anakin has more screen time than the Jedi. And we don't just see him more, we see him struggle, we see him about what he knows to be morally right vs what he really wants, we see him be overtaken by his own fear...

... and just by contrast, that makes him more relatable than the Jedi, who have already overcome their character arcs and mostly all learned to keep their flaws in check.

The narrative doesn't intend to frame them as antagonistic. We do see them talk about how worried they are, we do see them emote.

And if you think about it, it's easy to see why:

their entire way of life is going to crap,

their values are being corrupted as they're forced to fight and die, alongside their clone brothers, in a war they wanted no part of,

they sense that the Force is close to the breaking point and that the galaxy's inhabitants are suffering on the daily.

But, for example, when Mace or Ki-Adi Mundi are shown expressing concern in the Prequels... as worried as they are, in-universe... out-of-universe, their measured reactions doesn't emotionally impact a viewer as much as Anakin's intense ones do.

So a big chunk of the audience will sympathize more with him than them. But like the tutor in Inside Man, the Jedi are objectively the victims and Anakin is objectively an unstable space-nazi who betrayed and destroyed them.

Just because we're not shown these characters be worried beyond just monotonously saying "I'm worried" doesn't mean they're not actually worried as Anakin is in Revenge of the Sith (if not more).

However we don't see it.

Because these three films aren't about the Jedi Order, they're about the Republic and about Anakin and about how each of these two beautiful things were corrupted (by Palpatine and by themselves) into becoming the very thing they stood against.

The Jedi aren't a factor in either of those two themes set up by George Lucas.

They became a factor when fans - who despite not liking the Prequels, still admirably chose to engage with the material - made the Jedi be more important to the narrative of the Prequels by re-framing these films as "The Failure of the Jedi".

Now, should Lucas have recognized that most fans wouldn't give two shits about why a Republic falls or the "matinee serial" format, and would've rather he focused on the Jedi, and developed them accordingly? Probably.

But good luck telling an indie filmmaker with a bunch of money how to tell the story he wants to tell.

Could Lucas have done more with the Prequels to highlight the fact that the Jedi are the underdogs of the story, not Anakin's oppressors? Yes.

But, firstly, he probably didn't think that was a point that needed explaining. And secondly, as he explained at Cannes, in 2002, feature films are a very limiting format to tell a story, especially one of the Prequels' scale. If it doesn't directly contribute to the story you're telling... it's gotta go.

A limited show would've been better to cover every aspect of the Prequels more in detail and avoid confusing the audience re: who they should be rooting for.

Which is why it's interesting, to me, that Stephen Moffat used his limited show to INTENTIONALLY confuse the audience! 😃

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queer-reader-07 · 6 months

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few things bother me more than people saying that it’s “dumb” or “intentional ignoring” or “impossible” to have interpreted crowley and aziraphale’s relationship platonically.

and look i could go on about all the things that do point to romance but enough people have done that so i’m gonna defend myself here and explain why i read them as platonic for so long and why i think it’s perfectly reasonable to have read them platonically.

and a disclaimer that all of this is from my perspective and my opinion. so if i make a statement as though it’s matter of fact, know that i’m speaking from my perspective and just can’t be bothered to preface every sentence with “in my opinion…”

and it mostly boils down to one thing: their love reflected the love me and my friends have for each other.

so no shit i interpreted them platonically because they looked like my real life platonic relationships!!

i’ve talked at length about how i think there’s a specificity to the way queer people love. i think there’s something special about the way queer people show love, especially platonic love.

here’s the thing. i’ve been mistaken as my best friend of 16 years’ girlfriend more than once. i’ve been mistaken as one of my other best friend’s partner so many times her friends were genuinely shocked when she got a boyfriend because they thought she was dating me.

i understand the whole “being so platonically in love that people think you’re also fucking” situation. i unironically live that situation on the regular. so naturally i assumed that’s what was happening with aziraphale and crowley.

my thought process was basically this

1) they love like i love (specifically, crowley loves like i love). therefore, they’re platonically in love.

2) weird, everyone on the internet is convinced they’re dating. something something everyone values romantic love over platonic love

3) well whatever they’re still platonic in my heart

and it stayed like that quite literally until i watched episode 6 of season 2. and you can tell me i was being oblivious all you want, but that doesn’t change the fact that i genuinely believed they were platonic. queer platonic? sure. but definitely not romantic.

i saw all the witty quips and banter between the two of them and didn’t read any sexual or romantic tension, i read friendship. i saw aziraphale damsel in distress-ing himself on the regular so crowley could save him and thought “well it’s the only way he can spend time with crowley. checks out”. and i saw the bandstand breakup and the burning bookshop and “you told my only friend to shut his mouth and die and i did. not. care. for it.” and aziraphale so desperately trying to shield crowley from the horrors of the world and obviously i saw love. a love that is deep and profound, yes. it just never read romantic to me because i would do and say all of those things for and to my friends.

one of the few things i will never cease to find joy in is my friendships. i will ALWAYS love loving the people close to me, i will ALWAYS support them, and most importantly, i ALWAYS want to protect them. even when i know what is going to happen is inevitable, i don’t want to see them hurt. i want to shield them from the cataclysmic experience of the human condition and only have to experience in the moments of joy that await them. i don’t want to see the people i love hurt or in pain or jaded by how fucked up the world is.

because i already am those things. i am jaded by the world, i’m constant falling into the pit of cynical despair that the state of the world can manage to throw you down. and i know how fucking hard it is to pull yourself out of that place, to find hope and move forward and allow yourself to even enjoy the love and support you do have in life.

and the last thing i ever want is for the people i love dearly to experience those things.

so yeah. i related hard fucking core to crowley and the way he loves aziraphale SO. FUCKING. DEEPLY. and of course i read it platonically because it’s platonic for me. so deeply platonic in the best way.

and i could go on about how a lot of this stems from how much i value platonic love. how much i don’t adhere to social norms of love and how people express love. i will loudly proclaim my love for my friends, because i love them. i’m in love with them. but that doesn’t mean i want to date them or kiss them. and that makes perfect sense to me, and if it doesn’t make sense to you. well then, idk what to tell you.

this is longer than i intended but my point is that it hurts seeing people who act like those of us who did genuinely read aziracrow as platonic the first go around are stupid or that we chose to ignore the romance.

because, to me at least, it always felt like people were calling the way i love stupid or that i’m actually ignoring my “real” feelings

#nobody go into the notes and tell me i’m projecting onto media too much THATS LITERALLY THE POINT #it is natural and normal and expected that you read and consume media through the lens of your own lived experience #so this is good omens through my lived experience #and if yours is different that is amazing for you #but it doesn’t discredit mine #anyways i’m probably being more defensive than i need to be but i don’t care #this has been sitting in my drafts for weeks because i was too scared to post it but it is out in the public now #good omens #aziracrow #ineffable husbands #crowley #aziraphale #good omens 2 #ineffable wives #good omens meta #meta #gomens #gomens meta #platonic love

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vidavalor · 2 months

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Ok, your meta where you talk about what Dagon's saying about Satan and Crowley and the appetizers has gutted me like a fish (that pun feels wrong 😁) Do you see other scenes that are about this in the show? I think you're right about it and I'm just wanting to pick your brain on the topic because I think it makes the story even better if it is talking about stuff like SA.

Hi! Thanks for reading. 💕I really appreciated the pun actually lol as it's a tough topic and good to have a laugh in there. I wrote a post about parallels between Crowley and Satan and Nina and Lindsay that I'll link below but I do see it in other scenes that I haven't mentioned yet as well, including a scene with Mrs. Sandwich and the Discorporated!Aziraphale scene...

TW: discussion of SA under the cut.

One scene I see it in is this actually this one:

As they're getting ready to go face the demons-- led by devout Satanist Shax-- Crowley asks Mrs. Sandwich if she "has her hat pin." Crowley isn't under the 19th century spell that everyone else has been at times during The Ball but he's referencing the one thing from that era that Mrs. Sandwich will get, likely whether she is still under the magical influence or not. Hatpins were banned in England during the suffragette movement in that era as they were the most common thing a woman could carry on her person that she could use as a weapon to fend off sexual assault-- and many women were doing just that. The men who held the government positions and the power sought to outlaw them to "protect themselves" from women by doing this and led to women carrying weapons more surreptitiously-- like hiding a knife in their stockings, etc..

Mrs. Sandwich owns a bordello and is a sex worker and the odds of her not being a sexual assault survivor herself are slim to none. Crowley accurately determines that she's the person in the room best qualified to back him up and he wants her close so he can make sure she doesn't get hurt because he cares about her. Mrs. Sandwich is wearing a hat that is pinned into her hair so she is carrying a literal hat pin but Crowley's question is really asking her if she's otherwise armed-- and ready for this-- to which Mrs. Sandwich replies that she's "got more than that, love." She's got Crowley's back. Who is best equipped to fight The Devil? The ones who already have won a few rounds, like Crowley and Mrs. Sandwich.

There's also this bit from S1 about Crowley and Lucifer/Satan, especially if you take into account how euphemistically food is used in the show:

Yes, Crowley is drunk but it's been the case across a few scenes that there's often a lot of truth in what he's saying when he's off his head. "The food hadn't been that good lately..." He's basically saying he was bored and lonely and depressed and so was vulnerable to Lucifer's initial attentions and what Crowley thought was some sex and some new friends wound up an abusive boyfriend and eternal damnation.

The rest of this scene is Discorporated!Aziraphale appearing to Crowley and it helps illustrate why the first part of it begins with Crowley talking about Satan-- it's to continue to draw a very deliberate contrast between Satan and Aziraphale. Aziraphale shows up and the topic becomes how Aziraphale needs to possess someone to get a body temporarily and get to Tadfield. The prior time in the series at this point that we saw someone possessed was when Satan attacked Crowley. Crowley and Aziraphale are the exact opposite of that in this scene, which is, ultimately, about consent. Aziraphale won't possess Crowley and is, instead, searching diligently for a receptive body-- a person willing to let him possess them. Aziraphale's jokes are sexual innuendo relating to his own lack of a body rather than an actual request to possess him. Lucifer is literally possessive, while Aziraphale is not, and would not break Crowley's trust by violating him.

#ineffable husbands #good omens #crowley #aziraphale #good omens meta #aziracrow #good omens 2 #tw sa #tw trauma #tw ptsd

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thesherrinfordfacility · 6 months

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LWA: I'm going to ruminate a bit more about the parallel between Maggie's & Nina's conversation with Crowley and the Metatron's conversation with Aziraphale--they refer to Aziraphale as Crowley's "partner," the Metatron talks about their "partnership"; both insist that Aziraphale and Crowley need to talk--because while I think it's easy enough to see that the Metatron deliberately manipulates Aziraphale (while not understanding him fully), Maggie and Nina accidentally do the same thing to Crowley (while also not understanding him fully). There's been ample discussion of the Metatron conversation, but not so much about Maggie's and Nina's messing about.

I think we have to begin from the position that Maggie and Nina are mostly misguided and, in Nina's case, explicitly hypocritical. Other people have already pointed out that Nina's barrage of questions about Crowley's and Aziraphale's relationship is ludicrous and inappropriate--this is not even bad fanfic outsider POV levels of behavior--but given her outrage when Muriel pokes into her own business later, the script sure seems to imply that, yes, her barrage of questions really /is/ ludicrous and inappropriate. (She's had, what? Two minutes of interaction with Crowley up to this point? What even is that conversation?) Given that Maggie and Nina are Crowley's and Aziraphale's primary mirrors in S2, although always bearing in mind that Gaiman likes his mirroring to be askew or warped, is it the case that Nina's behavior in particular just reflects our angel-demon duo's behavior straight back at them?

A lot of S2 struck me not as fan service so much as fan /corrective/, in particular about the fandom's tendency to read them as more human than angel and demon. Even in S1, we were shown repeatedly that no matter how much they might like humans and aspects of human affect/existence, they don't move through the world like humans, they don't have a human relationship to time (and not just because Crowley can alter it), they do things the "human way" explicitly for /fun/, and they demonstrate over and over again that they have at best a limited grasp of human psychology. Crowley's "godfather" plot doesn't work not only because of free will, but also because even in the GO comic universe, it represents near-total incomprehension about how messily nurture /operates/; neither of them understands Anathema's fear about accepting a lift home from what appears to be two men; etc. It genuinely does not occur to Crowley (and therefore to most of the audience) that turning paintguns into real guns for fun might be an issue, nor to Aziraphale that wiping Mary Hodges' memory after the interrogation might be suboptimal. This kind of mayhem is bog-standard comic character behavior,* but the trick that GO plays is to ask you to think about the ethics involved when the bog-standard comic character is super-powered. The thing is--and you will have noticed this is a running theme in my asks, I suspect!--is that while it's very easy to identify with these characters as /oppressed/ trauma victims, the novel explicitly and the series implicitly keep warning us that in relation to the humans, they are still the /oppressors./ In the novel, this is Aziraphale's insight at the end, and if S2's more pointed emphasis on how both characters unthinkingly treat human beings is any indication, it's also where the series appears to be tending. (This is why I get a little antsy about reading Crowley's brand of temptation as promoting "choice" or something else positive: it's great that Crowley dislikes killing people, but he's still mucking about with them to make his souls quota. Satan /likes/ what Crowley did with the M25.)

To circle around to Maggie and Crowley again: a) they understand Crowley and Aziraphale about as well as Crowley and Aziraphale understand them, which is to say, they don't, and b) Crowley still does not understand how to apply human frames of reference to his own relationship with Aziraphale. Besides the warning about treating humans like toys--which Crowley, in typically on-brand behavior, excuses rather than apologizes for--the most important thing Nina says is not the "romantic" advice. It's the point she makes about her readiness to be in a relationship after being dumped by an abusive ex, which is to say, her non-readiness. Because it would be cruel to the other person. /This/ is what Crowley needs to hear and understand, and he...doesn't. (Aziraphale also needs to hear this, but he's off having his relationship with Crowley rewritten by the Metatron.) S2 spends a lot of time demonstrating that Crowley and Aziraphale haven't even been dumped by their respective allegorical "exes," let alone that they've recovered sufficiently to actually "go off" together or have a full-blown romantic relationship. Crowley's panic at the end of S2 leads him to accelerate straight into marriage proposal mode, when it is exactly the thing that he has just been warned that he /should not do/. That is, he would have been warned if he grasped the analogy between his situation and Nina's, but he genuinely can't see it, much as neither he nor Aziraphale understands fictional marriage plots. It's an analogy that exists for us, the human audience, but not for him.

I do think fans sometimes forget that Aziraphale and Crowley /are/ comic characters who think and act like comic characters, and that this has ramifications for how S3 will resolve their relationship?

hello again LWA!!!✨ im so sorry this has been burning away in my inbox for a fair while!!!

i gotta be honest, the mirroring of aziraphale and crowley in the general sense to maggie and nina is something that ive had a pin in for a while, just because of the sheer amount of information the parallel in all its skewed glory contains (and then that got me to thinking about the other mirror couples too, and its taken me a while - and pages of notes - to climb out of that particular rabbit hole). ie: dear LWA, once again you're going to get ramblings you didn't ask for.

on face value, maggie = aziraphale, and nina = crowley, right? maggie is soft and gentle, more readily/outwardly compassionate and innocent, even dresses in a typically lighter palette, and runs a shop that was literally carved out of aziraphale's own one. nina is acerbic and dry, outspoken and unapologetic, dresses likewise in darker clothing, and runs a coffeeshop that not only has a name that offers its patrons a choice, but feeds people with their fix - a material desire, if you like. it's far from a direct copy-and-paste of aziraphale and crowley, but they're instantly recognisable.

but you then have their situations (and im not breaking new ground here; this is just so i exorcise the thought-demons rattling around to make way for new ones) and their behaviours, that then reflect the opposite main character. maggie is shown fairly neatly to the audience, by virtue of her interaction with shax, to follow a similar pattern to crowley's circumstances as shown to us in s2 - linking a silly gifset demonstrating where im coming from on this, bc it saves the typing. she brings what is essentially a courting gift to nina, and then helps her out in the shop after the demon raid (reminiscent of the 1800 chocolates specifically, and then just... every favour/demonstration crowley has ever performed for aziraphale, frankly). nina is shown as being in an abusive relationship that she seems fully aware is abusive, full of gaslighting and possessiveness, but that she can't, for whatever reason, bring herself to leave - especially telling given her line that she thinks lindsay actually "never liked her very much", which aptly seems to reflect a good portion of how heaven views aziraphale. she's understandably hesitant and standoffish, and despite how unhealthy her relationship is, she is faithful and loyal to it despite the (unintentional, circumstantial) temptation being offered.

what i find interesting is that aziraphale interacts more with maggie, and crowley with nina. couple of thoughts on this, and all (and more besides) could be equally true:

aziraphale and crowley are drawn to the circumstances that their mirror is in; aziraphale is drawn to showing kindness to someone who is lonely and trepidatious, crowley is drawn to showing a wider perspective to someone who is inhibited and wary. the eden scene, in this context, feels all the more recognisable... plus, the anathema/newt mirroring!

aziraphale and crowley are drawn to the person that reflects their personality, possibly because it feels comforting and familiar. they feel kinship to the human that behaves more outwardly like themselves. again, im struck by how this feels a lot like their respective interactions with tracy and shadwell in s1

the fact that aziraphale and crowley interact more frequently and comfortably with maggie and nina respectively is used to draw attention to the moments where they don't interact with the other.

this last one is something i want to parse out a little bit. it is almost certain that aziraphale has had previous interactions with nina; he's possibly been in the coffeeshop before given how easily he addresses her, and nina remarks that aziraphale never goes to the monthly meetings, etc. she doesn't know him as well as maggie does, but by virtue of being neighbours, it stands to reason that they have had previous encounters that build up an acquaintance. crowley, on the other hand, does not appear to have met either of them before.

where aziraphale appears to interact with nina, however, in a one-on-one context, is the following conversation (im blithely ignoring the end of ep4 that's not even a conversation):

specifically, the culmination of where aziraphale has not only presumed that he has license to mess about with her personal life in general, but now with her and the other shopkeepers' autonomies and agencies. he's playing god in this, weaving his power (imo, to varying degrees of consciousness) to set up the perfect romantic scenario for maggie and nina, but also for him and crowley.

the fact that nina doesn't conform, pushes back on that magic, has broken away from the collective mentality of just accepting the situation and instead is questioning it all, directly and without hesitation, is a crucial part of this for me; because aziraphale backs away, leaves the line of questioning, very quickly. he doesn't want to confront it, doesn't want to be shown where this is a reflection on his actions. he's being shown the same way of thinking that scared him with crowley, and aziraphale is still scared of it upending careful order and blissful ignorance.

he brushes it off, and carries on with what he's doing, because it's what he's able to control; aziraphale has to make order of things, cannot conceive of the chaos that asking questions would bring. translate this directly to how he ignores crowley's concerns in ep5, and then basically the fact that a good deal of crowley's characterisation is built on the premise of asking questions, and you can see where this - asking questions - is something that aziraphale still fears; it poses danger (it had direct consequences in the fall, after all!) so, of course asking questions is something to fear.

but then again, is it because nina is a mirror of crowley? if circumstantially nina is actually aziraphale, is aziraphale actually reacting in a way that shows he's scared of himself? he who is starting to ask his own questions? starting to reexamine the status quo? i think this possibly rings more true than the simple nina = crowley thought, because whilst aziraphale may still not be completely comfortable with crowley's questions, and what they mean, i do think that it's a part of crowley's... crowleyness that aziraphale likes and loves. something that he has accepted... but only when it comes from crowley. the aziraphale that baulked at questions in the pre-fall scene/in eden is not, arguably, the aziraphale we see in 2023; he's in love with crowley, as he currently is (or at least, how aziraphale perceives him).

so wouldn't it make sense that aziraphale is actually afraid of how much nina is reflecting his own innermost thoughts back at him? the thoughts that begin to question why it is that an angel and a demon can't be together, what the point of heaven actually is, why heaven is the way it is, and why - if god has set things out the way they're meant to be - does that feel wrong? if aziraphale is questioning all of this, what does that say about him? how close is he to losing being an angel altogether? he's previously defied god and heaven's orders, but is this a step too far?

moving on to the maggie and crowley dynamic; this to me is equally as interest because they... do not interact, as far as i can remember, in a one-on-one context, at all - with the exception of this one scene:

im not quite sure what to read into this. my initial thought however, if we take the conclusion that maggie's circumstances and subsequent insecurities are a reflection of crowley, i do wonder if it's the absence of interaction that is key; that crowley is avoiding his reflection. that could be for any number of reasons, and no one reason feels quite right to me - arrogance, shame, embarrassment, fear of being seen, vulnerability... it's probably a mix. but it would nonetheless correlate with crowley's portrayal as not only an unreliable narrator at times, but also, as we've discussed previously, that he hasn't quite yet reached the development point of wanting to fully confront a good handful of his decisions and actions, nor want to acknowledge his circumstances that leave him open and vulnerable.

so what seems to be a rather purposeful tepid and... uninteresting? conversation suddenly has weight in everything that is missing. add to this, the way that crowley remains outside the bookshop as maggie, blissfully unaware, strolls into the bookshop, and he leaps in to stop the demons in their tracks before they can get to her, speaks even louder. he's most comfortable in being a protector, a fixer, a hero - even if it goes unnoticed and thankless, because that is his method of control:

but anyway, to actually head back to what your ask is actually saying! i find the assessment of nina as acting somewhat hypocritical really interesting - because yeah, she definitely appears as a very private person when questioned by just anybody (if we take into her responses to mrs sandwich and muriel into account)... but she does open up slightly to maggie.

she doesn't outright state the true problem with her relationship - again, im fairly certain she's aware of the abusive nature of it - to maggie, but she definitely aludes to its true nature more than we see her do otherwise. when maggie makes the assumption that being bombarded with texts automatically means that the sender must care about the recipient - said with some good measure of naivety - nina puts that to bed with her thinly veiled response that it's not out of care, but out of possessiveness. she reveals a bit more of herself to maggie; it goes from "doesn't like when im late", to the more vulnerable, "...likes it if i text that im gonna be more than ten minutes late..."

so when it comes to how she comes across as hypocritical in how she questions crowley about his and aziraphale's relationship - yeah, it's odd. it's funny as hell, and the comedy of it has its own merit, but it is invasive and uncomfortable at the same time. whilst it doesn't make it right (she ultimately needs to mind her own business, same as she impressed on others to do with her), it's not difficult to see where her line of, "other people's love lives always seem so much more straightforward than our own" would suggest that this is her brand of her escapism from her unhappy one. she's just witnessed gentle/fond ribbing between aziraphale and crowley, otherwise sees them together frequently, and they probably come across to her as an incredibly happy couple, that out of a place of perhaps envy and wistfulness, she becomes inappropriately nosy about it. for me, the saddest line about her relationship, repeating it from earlier, is that she doesn't think lindsay even liked her, which is the abject opposite of aziraphale and crowley.

poking her nose into their relationship, such as it is, is absolutely a mirror to their behaviour in messing about with hers with maggie, but it is understandable why she uses this as her own outlet, same as crowley and aziraphale seem to use hers as theirs. not justifiable, but understandable. but, like you say, it's not at all on the same level playing field - aziraphale and crowley have actual power that can influence the world and people around them, including magically creating scenarios according to what they think constitutes a romantic story, full of violins-swelling, world-stops-around-them moments, whereas nina - as far as we're aware - doesn't have any of that. this very imbalance highlights that they are not the same, and that the two situations cannot be directly compared.

like maggie remarks, she and nina are not a game, and shouldn't be played with just because it amuses them. for all of aziraphale and crowley's preachings about free will (including that they don't have it themselves as an angel and a demon, but that humans absolutely do and should have it, "that's the whole point"), the show expressively indicates that they don't appear to respect it or consider it more important than themselves, going so far as to remove it entirely and render it conditional on their own terms. whilst they may stray into very human behaviours (or maybe more accurately - human situations), they are manifestly not-human, they don't understand (or... care?) how the world in the general sense works, and arguably them being on earth in the first place contradicts that free will... blessings and temptations are all well and good, depending on how you look at them, but they shouldn't be happening to begin with.

the systematic presence of heaven and hell altogether arguably contradicts the foundation of free will, which seems to be something that neither of them fully see - they don't acknowledge that very problem... actually, no! i lie - crowley dances briefly and gingerly on this very point:

it's interesting how much the condition of humanity fades into the background when the narrative focus is on two supernatural characters and their personal storyline. and it's equally interesting how those same characters prop up their own irony as being the very thing that contradicts humanity from operating as it should, and - arguably - how it may have originally been designed.

everyone accepts that free will came to humanity from knowledge, and that knowledge was tempted to humanity by crowley... but he only says that he was sent up to eden to 'make some trouble'; who's to say that humanity wouldn't have come around to eating the apple anyway, which as crowley remarks was placed very pointedly within the garden, within literal arm's reach? did free will even need crowley to kickstart it? from the very first scene, we know that crowley evidently has free will by choosing to tempt eve to the apple, but we know that aziraphale has free will too, by choosing to give away the sword... so why wouldn't god have made humanity by the same design in the first place?

getting slightly off topic now, but it all seems to feed into the point that heaven and hell are superfluous to humanity's existence, and have only proven to treat humanity as a sandbox for their own ends. unfortunately, aziraphale and crowley don't quite seem to treat them much different in the grand scheme of things, even if their story, their 'version', is very much a 'lesser-stakes' microcosm of the wider narrative. nurture - ie. their unique experiences - may well have changed aziraphale and crowley in many ways, and separated them out from their contemporaries, but they equally still haven't fully shaken off their respective natures, either.

#👏 ONCE 👏 AGAIN #👏 I CANNOT 👏 STAY 👏 ON TOPIC #good omens #ask #crowley meta #aziraphale meta #s2 meta #s1 meta #i think? fuck it it is now #do i need a tag for nina/maggie meta?#look i do my best with these asks but what can i even add to half of them? theyre perfect

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bliphany · 7 months

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The Coffee was not drugged. The Coffee reflected how we related to our own and other people's free will (of making one’s own choice)

So I read this post and agreed with it so much I felt myself vibrating. After a few hours of thinking about it, I wanted to ramble more under op’s post, initially, but found that it grew way too long. So, I decided to make a separate post.

After two months since Good Omens season 2 finale, my view of various theories/metas concerning the final fifteen minutes is that, I am okay with most of them as long as they don't erase Aziraphale’s agency.

Did Aziraphale genuinely want to fix Heaven with Crowley but with Crowley’s strong refusal he took the second best thing he thought he could get? I’m fine with that.

Did Aziraphale tried to fix Heaven to make it worthy of Crowley, the world he loved, and his idea of real goodness (he wouldn’t see the world suffer if he could help it) and with the newly-gained information of Second Coming he made his choice even though it broke his heart? I liked this a lot. It was my initial thought right after the finale and I’m still about 65-70% standing by this take.

Did Aziraphale lie to gain more wiggle room in an urgent, intense, and limited-resource situation while due to his own and Crowley’s backgrounds and characteristics they also hurt each other in the process? YES YES YES. Right now this is my favorite interpretation because it’s a realistic and complex bag of limitation/repression from the system, individual’s agency despite of it, free will and choices (never means we won’t make mistakes but always means we can still choose to do something), and their mutual (mis)understandings and relationship dynamics. It’s SO GOOD. It can lead to so many possibilities. It has its depth and enough twist for both characters and the audience. It well-reflected our world and can bring valuable discussions.

Was there something we weren’t shown and actually Aziraphale and Crowley had come up with some plan? I’m okay with that it might be fun.

What I personally don’t want (aside from “oh it’s all God’s plan God wanted them to love each other God is one of us”… but that’s another post I guess…) is to erase the weight of Aziraphale’s choice at the end of Season 2, along with all the good and bad and everything in between it could bring to the table and all the valuable exploration of “how could we thrive to make hard choices even (especially) under limited circumstances, with "a cup of coffee."

I believe that coffee did mean something though...

"Give me Coffee/Freedom or give me death."

Coffee means freedom to choose and free will. Coffee/freedom which Aziraphale was half-forced to take, meaning the “free” choice pushed upon you weren’t as “free” as it seemed after all. Especially true under our current capitalism world, wasn't it? But it was not completely drunk without Aziraphale's agency, either. Coffee/freedom which Crowley asked six shots of. Coffee/freedom which Nina served every day but still on her way to break free from a previous not-free situation. Coffee/freedom which Ms. Sandwich claimed tasted better when Nina was happy.

I think it's also worth mentioning that, Aziraphale served Muriel tea and demonstrated how to drink it but respected their choice not to drink just yet. Aziraphale invited Jim/Gabriel to have a cup of cocoa which Jim/Gabriel described as the best thing ever.

The coffee was not drugged. The coffee was a metaphor of many different ways people could relate to their free will and ability/responsibility to choose.

The most interesting part was, theoretically, we people praise free will, we value choices, and we love love characters to have their agency...

Until they made a choice that we personally don't like, against our point of view, or hurt us.**

**This is also why I never truly believed Crowley would Refuse Aziraphale with capital R in canon... Crowley was definitely heartbroken, but between the two of them, he was also the one who valued and respected people making their own choices more. We saw he did that again and again even when he didn't personally agree. The only once he "took" away others choice in canon was to prevent a suicide.**

Then, that was free will no more. We'd framed it as if said individual was nonconsensual. Or the relationship must be bad or unhealthy. Which was understandable, emotionally, but that was also exactly the point of people having free will, wasn't it?

Giving people agency means acknowledging that they are different individuals from us. There's connection. There's love. There's devotion. They're still their own person just like we are our own. Giving people freedom to choose means they might, will, and should be allowed to choose differently. If their choices break our hearts. Well, they break our hearts. That happens because people are people.

People can't truly choose/love us freely if they aren't also given the freedom to not choose/love us. (Not saying Aziraphale and Crowley didn’t love each other because they definitely do. I’m just saying, they’ve been co-shaping humanity from the start of course they would act more and more like people, and to paraphrase what Adam once said, it made no sense to make people people and then be mad at them when they acted like, well, people)

Ursula Le. Guin wrote this short story called "Nine Lives" and it was about real, meaningful connections were created by reaching out a hand in the dark, without knowing for sure whether there would be other people to reach back.

It’s a practice. To love and to love under the blessing and curse of free will choice.

Idk I’m just… the “coffee was drugged theory” especially didn’t make sense to me personally, because Good Omens has always been a story about human free will.

#good omens #good omens meta #aziraphale #aziracrow #ineffable husbands #Aziraphale’s choice #my good omens meta

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most-normal-eccles-cake-ignorer · 9 months

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Metatron used to be human maybe?? and related thoughts about Aziraphale's persuasiveness in S2E5

(using it/its for Metatron since apparently that's how it is narrated in the book, with the exception of Aziraphale using he/him for it)

From the wikipedia page for 'Metatron':

Genesis 5:23-24 :

Gonna try my first 'the rest is under the cut' here:

Interesting given the Metatron's offer to reinstate Crowley as an angel... Human -> angel isn't quite the same thing but it's still quite "unorthodox," to use its wording. I kind of figured that offer was just to fuck with Aziraphale (since Crowley would never) and I still think that; this Enoch/Metatron possibility just gives me more questions.

The way the Metatron chews the inside of its cheek (or maybe just clenches its jaw, either way) talking about "ingesting" things in the past makes me feel like it pains the Metatron somehow to say this/remember it? I've seen many people point out this was a clear attempt to be relatable to Aziraphale and make Heaven seem more tolerant/progressive than it is, but also if this Enoch thing is in the story, who better to deal with this mess than angelic conversion therapy darling, Enoch/Metatron?

I saw a post saying that line had the same energy as Stanley Tucci in Easy A going "I was gay once. For a while. We all do it. It's okay." and it has stayed with me

ALSO during my daily rewatch of the series a casual review of S2E5, I noticed Aziraphale acting a lot like the Metatron while inviting some of the traders and shopkeepers of Whickber Street to the dance meeting:

Mr. Arnold @ music shop: Refuses outright at first, but is coaxed into it by the promise of the 1965 Dr. Who Annual proof copy

Mutt @ magic shop: Cannot attend under any circumstances bc of anniversary plans with their spouse ... until S.W. Erdnase's annotated personal copy of Expert at the Card Table becomes available for loan

Nina: We get "perfectly ordinary invitation with no hidden agenda of any kind" and then he lies to her again that the Christmas lights will be discussed so she accepts

"He's discovered his civic obligations," if by civic obligations we mean 'ability to identify what people want most and offer it to them in return for obedience'.

The Metatron does the same with with Aziraphale: Comes in all friendly, makes the invitation, gets immediately refused, then sweetens the deal by offering what Aziraphale really wants (to be with Crowley and have Heaven's approval again so he doesn't have to deal with the cognitive dissonance anymore).

What does this mean? (i have no hecking idea) Does the Metatron (in addition to just wanting to split the dream team up) also see itself in Aziraphale a little bit? Or is the parallel more for us as viewers to see (even more) how Aziraphale still uses Heaven's tactics and thinks he knows what others need better than they do?

On the other hand, apparently Sandalphon is said to be the prophet Elijah raised to angelic status in a similar way and that didn't really seem to be a thing in S1 soooo who knows.

#good omens 2 #good omens theory #good omens meta #the metatron #aziraphale #good omens spoilers

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midnightmah07 · 2 months

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Okay, so, u r welcome viuna shippers.

What Jack and Vil mostly have in common is the idea of being tired of routine. Jack is tired that he only gets to play his part as the pumpkin king, annoyed to be stuck in a part and not being able to try other things. For the record, Vil is kinda the same, the difference is that in the actor world he is constantly put in the "villain role" and as for being a model he is always in second place or behind; making difficult for him to overcome and do other parts that aren't his "signature ones" according to the media (yk? like that person who plays themselves in a movie, they always gets the SAME character model, noah centineo or rafael portugal as an example-) AT THE END, both Jack and Vil want something different than the old scheme, driving for new things.

That is even more noticeable in "Jack's lament", but anyway let me highlight the things most match Vil's perspective in my opinion-

"There are few who'd deny, at what I do I am the best, for my talents are renowned far and wide"

"Yet year after year, it's the same routine […] Have grown so tired of the same old thing"

"Oh, somewhere deep inside of these bones an emptiness began to grow. There's something out there, far from my home a longing that I've never known."

"But who here would ever understand, that the Pumpkin King with the skeleton grin would tire of his crown, if they only understood, he'd give it all up if he only could."

Also, I'd like to add that Jack is very "passionate" on learning about Christmas and wanting to get to the bottom of things. I see that in Vil, somehow, he is passionate for what he does. So, I see the resemblance as well.

ANND, Jack gets his attention on Sally because she was always on his side he observes Sally's unwavering determination to support him. Demonstrating that love is intrinsic to his being, he affectionately refers to Sally as his "Dearest Friend," affirming that their union is destined. Embracing both his future with her and Sally herself, he wholeheartedly embraces the journey ahead. SIMILAR (my new fav word) TO VIL POINT OF VIEW FOR YUUNA- She supports him during ALL Book 5 and in Book 6 SHE STILL IS IN HIS SIDE EVEN WITH THE FACT HE IS OLD. At the end of the day, jack and vil are found into sally and yuuna because their situations are similar but different at the same time.

This of Jack saying "we are simply meant to be" for Sally in Viuna's case is slightly funny since Yuuna is well mirrors and Vil is Vil, ig it makes sense-

ANYWAY, as for Sally and Yuuna (movie character analysis basically)

Sally and Jack are not that different from each other, she is also tired of the same old routine, making have an admiration for him, in the end of jack's lament, Sally says "Oh Jack, I know how you feel". Quite similar to why Yuuna ends up liking Vil so much, Yuuna was used to the same routine back home and once she gots to Twisted Wonderland IS THE SAME THING! IT HAS A ROUTINE. AGAIN!

Kinda not for Sally, but will say it for Yuuna- Yuuna HAS problems of not knowing her true personality so she ends up having conflicts into copying people's personas (basically). BUT WITH VIL, HE HAS SIMILAR ISSUES TO HER- So, she gets confused like "what do you mean I am not mirroring him?? I just have similar issues to him????" that somehow draws herself to him, because she can relate to his pain and agony at a certain level, yk?

Sally learns she should patient, since she is kinda not allowed to leave her home as she has to take care of her "creator"; similar to Yuuna again, she is quite not allowed to leave too much, she needs to take care of her brother- And now, she has to take care of teenage boys who are throwing tantrums and fists (everyone thanks crowley).

NOW FOR SALLY'S SONG- Of course, I need to give what lyrics match Yuuna, so here it goes:

"And though I'd like to stand by him, can't shake this feeling that I have"

"And does he notice my feelings for him and will he see how much he means to me I think it's not to be"

"What will become of my dear friend, where will his actions lead us then. Although I'd like to join the crowd in their enthusiastic cloud"

"And will we ever end up together? No, I think not, it's never to become, for I am not the one."

I think this is specifically because Yuuna notices something is nOT quite right with the apple drink, Vil intends to give Neige... Yuuna's gut feeling is quite as good as Adeline's tbh

MOVING ON (yes, I am not finished), talking about the book "Long live pumpkin queen", KINDA spoiler free-

(I didn't do one book analysis for Vil and Jack since most of the time Jack is under a sleep curse in the book- So, uhm, he doesn't have too much to analyze)

In the book, Jack and Sally marry, so now Sally is the Queen... You see where I am going? BUT SHE IS DEF NOT READY- Like she was a no one just yesterday, now out of nowhere people know her and like her??? WHO ELSE HAD THAT PROBLEM??? YUUNA. Yuuna had out of NOWHERE all attention to her, bc, NOW she dates a famous person. BUT NOW, she feels like she is back to mirroring him, instead of being herself around him- THAT FREAKS HER OUT- Similar to Sally, who is not used to so much pressure.

ALSO THEY BOTH have now to basically save everyone after some shit happen... *cof cof*

But what is my biggest "THIS IS WHY" in this whole ramble, is the fact that Sally and Yuuna are TERRIFIED to be alone again, Yuuna lost her sibling and her parents were never around and Sally is just alone all the time since Doctor Finklestein never lets her leave home.

so sally and yuuna are TERRIFIED to loose their partners (quite normal) but mostly because they made them feel understood. yk? sally and yuuna thanks to their partners finally didn't felt alone.

. . . .

ANYWAY, I GUESS I AM DONE :DD

sorry i know it's long-

i just like

had the reason to talk about VIUNA AND THE NIGHTMARE BEFORE CHRISTMAS????? I saw the opportunity. probably will do it for the hercules AU as well later on

TEEHEE I LOVE THISSS IT'S SO FUN AND DON'T APOLOGIZE FOR IT BEING LONG I LIKE READING STUFF LIKE THIS

Viuna... Truly the ship ever, the couple to ever exist, them ✨ they do have a lot of similarities! It's funny how I never noticed :O but to be fair, I'm not really a huge fan of The Nightmare Before Christmas (the animation creeps me out, not in the sense of it being scary but because it makes me uncomfortable), I still like the story, just not that into it, so tbh it makes sense I wouldn't linked the dots

This is so fun... Ramble more about them I love Viuna with my whole heart, and I love seeing u excited 🥺💙

#💙! mah's answers #💙! barbs<3

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robo-dino-puppy · 2 months

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10 Fandoms, 10 Characters, 10 Tags

thank you for the tag @bluntblade! (i'm embarrassed this took me so long. also i've never been good at ranking things so uh don't consider this list in order of most favorite or anything)

Donna Noble (Doctor Who)

Character I think about if I'm having a bad day <3 This scene between the windows in Partners in Crime never fails to cheer me up. Also: "You're not mating with me, sunshine!" Theeeeee best platonic relationship with the Doctor IMO.

Varl (Horizon)

Aloy did not appreciate this good dude nearly enough. I want Varl to be my BFF. T_T But HFW happened and... I won't say too much about that or we'd be here all day. He's alive in my head and that's all that matters.

Cimorene (The Enchanted Forest Chronicles)

Cimorene! She's no-nonsense and clever. She wasn't a fan of being treated like a princess so she went and "got captured by" a dragon so people would stop bothering her, and helps her cook and organize her library. I mean, goals.

Loki (MCU)

I wasn't into the MCU when it started getting big, and in fact I didn't see any of the movies until I read someone on Tumblr (c. 2012) going on about (paraphrased) how awful it was that people liked Loki because he was the absolute worst and if you liked him you were a gross immoral person and you should feel bad. So I went and watched this Avengers movie everyone was talking about. And guess what haters? He is terrible and I love him.

Parker (Leverage)

Although I am not brave enough to throw myself off buildings, sometimes I amuse myself by thinking "what would Parker do?" and since a canonical option involves stabbing someone who's bothering her with a fork and jumping out a window, the thought cheers me up even if I can't do that.

Aziraphale (Good Omens)

He just wants people (aside from Crowley) to leave him alone in his bookshop. He never fits in with his "side" but tries to do what they want anyway, because that's the good thing to do, and he wants to be good. I can relate so hard, buddy.

Milo Thatch (Atlantis: The Lost Empire)

Ok so... I totally had a crush on Michael J. Fox and I was already interested in linguistics back when this movie came out, and then here's a main character voiced by him who was a linguist! Milo had to be my favorite :D

Elena Fisher (Uncharted)

I will fully admit that some of my initial love of Elena came from her AI covering my panic-flailing self early on in the first Uncharted game (I'm THE WORST at games with guns, even on easy, it's actually embarrassing) - but she impressed me right away when she was not overly impressed by Nate. And her snark game is on point.

Zeb (Star Wars Rebels)

I feel like Zeb needs more love. Comic relief character who actually has an unbelievably tragic backstory! And his story has so much untapped potential! We never really get to explore what happened with Lasan, and then then dump Kallus in there with his defection to the Rebellion and his whole *handwaves* history with the Lasats and eventual apparent (b)romance with Zeb - and the show had so little to say about it! Huge angsty storytelling miss right there. (Dave why.)

Brian Finch (Limitless [2015])

This dude! Lovable but he would be SO exasperating to deal with IRL. His arts-and-craftiness just resonated with me. He was always making stuff out of toothpicks and yarn and papier mâché and clay and and and- I'm still mad this show only got one season.

zero-pressure tags: @mari-mary, @ayaitch, @hannahmationstudios, @inomakani, @fogsblue, @nerd-artist, @singingkestrel, @prototypelq, @tjerra14, @artekai or just consider yourself tagged if you want to do it!

#tag game #ty this was fun!#it took me so long because my brain has been overwhelmed mush lately and *waves vaguely* WORDS #but also... how tf does the tumblr gif search work?#i couldn't find what i wanted for some of these so i just took all my own screencaps instead lmao

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inconveniently-discorporated · 2 years

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Parallels -- let's talk about these guys!

Out of the gate, we've got these two as the most obvious love interests in the story. But it doesn't end there.

I wrote about the parallels between God with the Great Plan, and Agnes Nutter with Nice and Accurate Prophecies. In it, I mentioned the Lucifer-Pulsifer connection and their relation to God and Agnes.

Given this, let's draw a line between these figures and their descendents.

On Heaven's side, we have God and the angels, and specifically Aziraphale. For Angnes, obviously, we have Anathema.

On Hell's side, we have Lucifer and his demons, in particular Crowley. For Witchfinder Major Pulsifer, we have Newt.

I feel like if I were to compare these couples outside of this context, I would've drawn a line between Anathema-Crowley and Newt-Aziraphale because of their general disposition, but if you dig a little deeper, you can see the connections.

Let's look at these two. First, kind of interesting to point out that Aziraphale dresses fairly "vintage" in his coat and his vest and his tartan. Anathema also has a vintage style, with her buttoned-up dresses (which if you'll notice is ALSO, erm -- okay, I am uncultured so I don't know if it's considered plaid or what but it's similar okay, just in different colors).

These two rely heavily on Agnes to tell them how to stop the apocalypse. Aziraphale uses his skills and his cleverness to try and piece together the puzzle, and Anathema does the same.

These two are on the hunt for the antichrist, but who are they outside of that?

Anathema has lived her life according to Nice and Accurate Prophecies. She saves the world because it is written, because this is what she is meant to do.

Aziraphale has lived his life according to the Great Plan. He, in his thousands of years, acts according to the plan, because it is written, because this is what he is meant to do.

Then there's these two. These two wild spirits, for whom nothing works quite as planned, neither of whom are really on God's side.

You have Newton, who is sent on a mission that he doesn't really want to be on (find and burn witches), where ultimately he does not succeed because he falls in love with the one he is not supposed to fall in love with.

You have Crowley, who is sent on a mission that he doesn't really want to be on, where ultimately he does not succeed because he falls in love with the one he is not supposed to fall in love with (okay AND because of the nuns, but outside of that he was still trying to fail).

Now, let's look at everyone's reaction to their respective plans.

Aziraphale and Anathema are both careful followers of their respective plans. They may not always know what it means, but they know the gist of where it's supposed to end up.

Crowley and Newt are basically living life as they want. Sure, Crowley knows that God has the Great Plan, but, y'know, great pustulent mangled bollocks to it and such. Because, guess what? Not everything goes to plan. Sometimes you follow the schematics to the letter, and you blow out the power to the neighborhood. Sometimes you ask questions to try and improve things with career advancement and such, and you get thrown out of Heaven.

Aziraphale has such an incredibly difficult time letting go of his side. Being an obedient angel is all he's known. There's the Great Plan, and he's supposed to follow it. God leads the way. What does choice have to do with destiny?

Anathema has the same struggle. Being an obedient descendent is all she knows. There's Nice and Accurate Prophecies, and she's supposed to follow it. Agnes has special plans for her. What does choice have to do with destiny?

But... Why? Why do they HAVE to know? Why do they HAVE to follow it?

You have Newton, who was named after a famous scientist whose knowledge is associated with a falling apple. You have Crowley, a fallen angel who gave humans the gift of knowledge through tempting them into eating the apple. They question the status quo, they ask their respective partners why it's so important that they hold onto their sides.

Crowley questions and pushes Aziraphale about the power of choice. Newt questions and pushes Anathema about the power of choice.

In the end, you have two characters for whom life is a puzzle to be investigated and put together. You have two characters who are afraid to leave everything they've ever known, and jump into the wild unknown, even if the known isn't really what they wanted in life. But they're not jumping alone. They're jumping in with eyes wide open, with people by their sides who are willing to see the journey through with them.

You have two characters for whom things have never quite worked out, despite their best intentions. You have two characters who have never lived their lives according to the plan, who have been lonely and mistreated, who seem to have been abandoned by God. You have two characters whose ancestors have determined that they must hate and seek to murder the descendants from The Other Side, and you have two characters who disregard this completely and fall in love anyway.

You have Aziraphale and Anathema, who honestly played a significant part in saving the world due to their wit and cleverness. You have Crowley and Newt who contributed a significant amount by being sexy and supportive encouraging these two, and vice versa. You have Anathema who encouraged Newt to use his "powers" to stop the computers and disarm the nukes. You have Aziraphale who encouraged Crowley to use his powers to stop time and disarm Satan.

And that's it, that's the story. The whole thing is driven by the fact that people will tell you that you need to be a certain way, but do you really? Adam shows that you don't have to know the plan, you can go about your life entirely unaware that there is a plan (if the Great Plan is actually a plan and not just God's list of prophecies), and still make your own choice and live in a better world for it.

I'd like to leave off with one last observation, and that is how both couples begin the journey into whatever comes next.

Aziraphale's bookshop burned down, and we end the season with that being reversed after the not-apocalypse and his bookshop becoming whole again. The bookshop is his, it's his defiance against his destiny.

Anathema received a new "book" of prophecy, and we end the season with her deciding to burn the pages. This is her defiance against her destiny.

Either way, after Adam's decision that stops the apocalypse, they've taken charge of their own futures and are moving ahead with their significant others, moving ahead while being on the same side.

#good omens meta #good omens parallels #aziraphale and crowley #newt and anathema #the great plan #nice and accurate prophecies

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mirrormazeworld · 1 year

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TWST Theory : Deep Analysis Based on Alice in Wonderland and Through The Looking Glass - Crowley The Mad Hatter (part 1)

⚠️WARNING⚠️

⚠️CONTAINS SPOILER CHAPTER 6 AND 7⚠️

⚠️VERY COMPLICATED TWST THEORY, MIGHT GIVES YOU HEADACHE, PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK ⚠️

Note:

You've read this far, congratulations! Beware that this is the longest and most difficult part to understand out of all parts it might give you headaches if you're not ready. (It's ok, I can't take it as well myself that I almost cried when I wrote this) Keep in mind that I have little to no evidence, therefore this theory is my original theory and purely just my assumptions so please take it with the grain of salt (as usual).

Before I explain, I want to say that I did this analysis and research purely because I want a base to make a hc for Crowley for my own fanfic/yumeship since we have little to no information about him. I just feel the need to get it all off my head and share it here because of how complicated it is and to better understand what kind of Crowley he is in my lore that I created, since how I see of Crowley is very different compared to how most people see Crowley. Most people see him as the mastermind, a very evil villain to the point most people in the fandom hate him unreasonably. I can guess it's because of almost all people in the fandom, both JP and EN side doesn't know what twisted he is and he is just mysterious and ambiguous that he is misunderstood.

Crowley has been believed for a long time as twisted from Diablo, Maleficent's raven because of his name. Some also suspected he's the crow in Snow White. Even so there's no telling of what he is twisted from. And don't you think it's a bit weird when both Diablo and the crow in Snow White role actually doesn't really have that much significance in their respective stories while we know Crowley would play a great part in twst as he is still the Headmaster of NRC. I'm sure twst fans have been dying to know what he is supposed to be for almost 3 years including myself, but I've always believed he is actually also twisted of something else other than Diablo and today I'm going to share my own analysis and hc of Crowley that hopefully would help you understand him and his character better, and that is :

Dire Crowley : Twisted of Mad Hatter

A long time ago I was just thinking, if Yuu supposed to be Alice that comes to a Wonderland, surely there should be Mad Hatter somewhere...? And then I remembered someone that seems to wear hat everywhere no matter the circumstances...

That's right, it's the Headmage of NRC, Dire Crowley.

And isn't it kind of weird that his hat is similar to that of Ramshackle ghost's? As if the clue is there in front of your eyes.

So I decided to look at it further and found something interesting....

Alice in Wonderland : The World of Math

Alice in Wonderland is a children's book because of its fantasy like story, but if you're a true book lover, you'll know that Alice in Wonderland is a book full of riddles. There are a lot of english wordplay but what not many people know is that most of the riddles in Alice in Wonderland are related to Math, as Carroll is also the Math Logician.

I won't explain much but this is an example of the math riddle in Alice in Wonderland (you can skip this part if it's too much. I just want to show you) :

In the chapter of "Advice from Caterpillar", Alice has fallen down the rabbit hole and eaten a cake that has shrunk her to a height of just 3 inches. The Caterpillar enters, smoking a hookah pipe, and shows Alice a mushroom that can restore her to her proper size. But one side of the mushroom stretches her neck, while another shrinks her torso, so she must eat exactly the right balance to regain her proper size and proportions. The word "hookah" is of Arabic origin, like "algebra", and the original Arabic term for algebra, widely known and used in the mathematical community in Carroll's time, was al jebr e al mokabala or "restoration and reduction" - which exactly describes Alice's experience. It's Carroll's view of the absurdity of symbolic algebra.

The reason why I strongly believe Crowley is/was the one who looped/rewind the time is because I suspect he is the Mad Hatter. I have always been drawing him based on this thoughts in my mind and of course it's not without reason. Every scenes in Alice in Wonderland contains riddles in it and most of them goes by math logic. And from all of those riddles, the "A Mad Tea Party" from Alice in Wonderland and "Wool and Water" from Through The Looking Glass are the only scenes that tells time in wonderland specifically that made Alice realizes time in Wonderland goes differently from her own world.

In one interview, Yana said it herself that she learned so much from Lewis Carroll's style of story telling. Carroll's background in Math and his interest in literatures allowed him to criticize ideas at that time through his Wonderland stories. This is what his story telling style is like when he made "Alice in Wonderland" and "Through the Looking Glass". Doing analysis on Dire Crowley means that I should solve the riddle first and then do an actual analysis on him.

Now you know that Alice in Wonderland is about Math, so from this onwards, I'm going to do explanation how to solve the riddle while also explaining about Crowley along the way

Note : I'm not a Mathematician nor a Physician so there might be other things that I have no idea about but I'll do my best to explain the math riddle to you...

Mad Hatter and His Relation to Time

-Time for a T-Party : "A Mad Tea Party"- (Alice in Wonderland)

“It began with the tea,” the Hatter replied.

“Of course twinkling begins with a T!” said the King sharply. “Do you take me for a dunce? Go on!”

When you read "Tea Party" it sounds the same as "T-Party". "T" is the math symbol of "Time" in mathematics. At the time when Alice in Wonderland was written and published, a mathematician, Sir William Rowan Hamilton (1805–1865) invented "quaternion", a four dimensional extension to complex number that also represent rotations and orientation happening to the four dimensional object in three dimensional space.

To put it simply, quaternion is a four number system in mathematics that shows what happened to 3D objects if they are in timespace (4th dimension)

Note :

To make it easier to understand :

...-2.5,-2,-1, 0, 1, 2, 2.5...-> is real number

3.14 + 1.59i -> is complex number

3.23 + 8.46i + 2.64j + 3.38k -> is quaternion

The 1st dimension that represented by real numbers system is line.

The 2nd dimension that represented by complex number system are two-dimensional shapes (ex : rectangle, trapezoid)

The 3rd dimension that represented by adding one more imaginary dimension are three-dimensional shapes (ex : sphere, cube)

The 4th dimension that represented by adding two more imaginary dimension to complex number is timespace.

Quaternion is a four number system in the form of

q = a + bi + cj + dk

Where a , b , c , d are real numbers and i , j , k are "imaginary" unit hence why quaternion is also called "imaginary mathematics".

In Crowley's voice clip, he said :

Not only "imagination" is the key to use magic in Twisted Wonderland, this "imagination" might have relevance to something else as well but I'll skip this part for now and will explain it later in the last part. Just remember that this "imagination" is the key word to this theory and will guide you when you read further.

In 3D, 3 dimensional consist of 3 axis : length, width, and depth. In 4D, there's a fourth axis : Time.

Hamilton spent much of his life seeking a three-dimensional number system analogous to the complex numbers. He added two imaginary dimensions, (2.64j)and (3.38k) to the complex number (3.23 + 8.46i). Three imaginary dimensions describing spaces, and the real numbers sitting perpendicular to that in some kind of fourth dimension.

Hamilton said, if you take this time parameter out of these numbers, then the numbers would just keep rotating around － they won't go anywhere, like the characters rotating round and round the tea party, round and round the table.

“Ah! that accounts for it,” said the Hatter. “He won’t stand beating. Now, if you only kept on good terms with him, he’d do almost anything you liked with the clock. For instance, suppose it were nine o’clock in the morning, just time to begin lessons: you’d only have to whisper a hint to Time, and round goes the clock in a twinkling! Half-past one, time for dinner!”

(“I only wish it was,” the March Hare said to itself in a whisper.)

“That would be grand, certainly,” said Alice thoughtfully: “but then—I shouldn’t be hungry for it, you know.”

“Not at first, perhaps,” said the Hatter: “but you could keep it to half-past one as long as you liked.”

“Is that the way you manage?” Alice asked.

The Hatter shook his head mournfully. “Not I!” he replied. “We quarrelled last March—just before he went mad, you know—” (pointing with his tea spoon at the March Hare,) “—it was at the great concert given by the Queen of Hearts, and I had to sing

‘Twinkle, twinkle, little bat!

How I wonder what you’re at!’

You know the song, perhaps?”

“I’ve heard something like it,” said Alice.

“It goes on, you know,” the Hatter continued, “in this way:—

‘Up above the world you fly,

Like a tea-tray in the sky.

Twinkle, twinkle—’”

Here the Dormouse shook itself, and began singing in its sleep “Twinkle, twinkle, twinkle, twinkle—” and went on so long that they had to pinch it to make it stop.

“Well, I’d hardly finished the first verse,” said the Hatter, “when the Queen jumped up and bawled out, ‘He’s murdering the time! Off with his head!’”

“How dreadfully savage!” exclaimed Alice.

“And ever since that,” the Hatter went on in a mournful tone, “he won’t do a thing I ask! It’s always six o’clock now.”

A bright idea came into Alice’s head. “Is that the reason so many tea-things are put out here?” she asked.

“Yes, that’s it,” said the Hatter with a sigh: “it’s always tea-time, and we’ve no time to wash the things between whiles.”

“Then you keep moving round, I suppose?” said Alice.

“Exactly so,” said the Hatter: “as the things get used up.”

“But what happens when you come to the beginning again?” Alice ventured to ask.

“Suppose we change the subject,” the March Hare interrupted, yawning. “I’m getting tired of this. I vote the young lady tells us a story.”

Related to this scene, Hatter, Hare and Dormouse represent three terms of a quaternion, and the fourth term, Time, is absent because Hatter was upsetting the Time. Time won't allow those three to move past tea time and they can only move round the table in a loop, just like Hamilton attempts to calculate motion before the 4th dimension of time was added.

- Wool and Water - (Through the Looking Glass)

‘That’s the effect of living backwards,’ the Queen said kindly: ‘it always makes one a little giddy at first—’

‘Living backwards!’ Alice repeated in great astonishment. ‘I never heard of such a thing!’

‘—but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s memory works both ways.’

‘I’m sure mine only works one way,’ Alice remarked. ‘I can’t remember things before they happen.’

‘It’s a poor sort of memory that only works backwards,’ the Queen remarked.

‘What sort of things do you remember best?’ Alice ventured to ask.

‘Oh, things that happened the week after next,’ the Queen replied in a careless tone. ‘For instance, now,’ she went on, sticking a large piece of plaster on her finger as she spoke, ‘there’s the King’s Messenger. He’s in prison now, being punished: and the trial doesn’t even begin till next Wednesday: and of course the crime comes last of all.’

‘Suppose he never commits the crime?’ said Alice.

‘That would be all the better, wouldn’t it?’ the Queen said, as she bound the plaster round her finger with a bit of ribbon.

Alice felt there was no denying that. ‘Of course it would be all the better,’ she said: ‘but it wouldn’t be all the better his being punished.’

‘You’re wrong there, at any rate,’ said the Queen: ‘were you ever punished?’

‘Only for faults,’ said Alice.

‘And you were all the better for it, I know!’ the Queen said triumphantly.

‘Yes, but then I had done the things I was punished for,’ said Alice: ‘that makes all the difference.’

‘But if you hadn’t done them,’ the Queen said, ‘that would have been better still; better, and better, and better!’ Her voice went higher with each ‘better,’ till it got quite to a squeak at last.

Alice was just beginning to say ‘There’s a mistake somewhere—,’ when the Queen began screaming so loud that she had to leave the sentence unfinished. ‘Oh, oh, oh!’ shouted the Queen, shaking her hand about as if she wanted to shake it off. ‘My finger’s bleeding! Oh, oh, oh, oh!’

Her screams were so exactly like the whistle of a steam-engine, that Alice had to hold both her hands over her ears.

‘What is the matter?’ she said, as soon as there was a chance of making herself heard. ‘Have you pricked your finger?’

‘I haven’t pricked it yet,’ the Queen said, ‘but I soon shall—oh, oh, oh!’

‘When do you expect to do it?’ Alice asked, feeling very much inclined to laugh.

‘When I fasten my shawl again,’ the poor Queen groaned out: ‘the brooch will come undone directly. Oh, oh!’ As she said the words the brooch flew open, and the Queen clutched wildly at it, and tried to clasp it again.

‘Take care!’ cried Alice. ‘You’re holding it all crooked!’ And she caught at the brooch; but it was too late: the pin had slipped, and the Queen had pricked her finger.

‘That accounts for the bleeding, you see,’ she said to Alice with a smile. ‘Now you understand the way things happen here.’

The Wool and Water chapter from "Through the Looking Glass" is another chapter that gives a hint to Alice about time, particularly how time in the mirror world goes (it's moving backwards). Similar to how "A Mad Tea-Party" chapter in "Alice in Wonderland" does.

This chapter also mentioned the "King's Messenger" who is in prison and is being punished, which later in chapter "The Lion and The Unicorn" turns out to be "Hatta", the "Hatter" in "Through The Looking Glass" (and he is still drinking tea just like the "Hatter" in "Alice in Wonderland"). This chapter is the first time where Hatter (now Hatta) being mentioned in "Through The Looking Glass".

Mad Hatter, Crow, and Raven : The Key to Time is the Corvid

The first thing Hatter said when he met Alice for the first time was :

“Why is a raven like a writing desk?”

Carroll said, all the riddles in his books aren't actually meant to be solved therefore he never gave an answer to it for the readers of his works. But interestingly later, from all of his riddles this one riddle became the only riddle that has an answer from Carroll himself since his readers were so persistent. Here's what he said :

Enquiries have been so often addressed to me, as to whether any answer to the Hatter's Riddle can be imagined, that I may as well put on record here what seems to me to be a fairly appropriate answer, viz:

'Because it can produce a few notes, tho they are very flat; and it is nevar put with the wrong end in front!' This, however, is merely an afterthought; the Riddle, as originally invented, had no answer at all.

He wasn't actually giving the answer, but he was giving a hint on how to solve the riddle by ourself.

The answer to the riddle is like his other poem riddles where each sentence has a single word meaning – a charade.

'Because it can produce a few notes, tho they are very flat;'

This first sentence in a single word describes a ‘letter’.

'and it is nevar put with the wrong end in front!'

The second sentence in a single word is simply ‘backwards’.

The word ‘Letter’ has a double meaning of one you send in the post or one in the alphabet.

When you read the letters in the word "nevar" in backwards, it will be "raven"

This answer related to Hatter's riddle on Carroll's first publication had never intentionally misspelt with a letter ‘a’ which is Raven spelt with the wrong end in front. He was describing the word ‘backwards’ in his second sentence just like his other charade poems.

Carroll is good at saying something with double meanings so the hint doesn't end there in the charade just like that. The second sentence, when you read the sentence just as it is 'and it is nevar put with the wrong end in front!' with your focus on the word "nevar" means that "The wrong end in front isn't the same as the end in back"

This refers to the order of multiplication in quaternion which is non-commutative. Quaternion represents rotations and orientation happening to the four dimensional object in three dimensional space. Swapping the order on how you do the multiplication will changes the answer.

If you do the multiplication clockwise, it will gives you positive answer : i x j = k

If you do the multiplication counter-clockwise, it will gives you negative answer : j x i = -k

Hence in quaternion i x j is not the same as j x i

( i x j ≠ j x i )

This non-commutative order of multiplication in quaternion later implied by what Hatter said after he asked the riddle to Alice.

“Not the same thing a bit!” said the Hatter. “You might just as well say that ‘I see what I eat’ is the same thing as ‘I eat what I see’!”

“You might just as well say,” added the March Hare, “that ‘I like what I get’ is the same thing as ‘I get what I like��!”

“You might just as well say,” added the Dormouse, who seemed to be talking in his sleep, “that ‘I breathe when I sleep’ is the same thing as ‘I sleep when I breathe’!”

“It is the same thing with you,” said the Hatter, and here the conversation dropped, and the party sat silent for a minute, while Alice thought over all she could remember about ravens and writing-desks, which wasn’t much.

Additionally, in "Through The Looking Glass" (the scene in 'Wool and Water') where Alice finally realized how the time goes in the world behind the mirror was happened when a giant crow covered the sky so it feels like it's nighttime, and the crow goes away after White Queen explained how time goes in through the looking glass.

By this time it was getting light. ‘The crow must have flown away, I think,’ said Alice: ‘I’m so glad it’s gone. I thought it was the night coming on.’

The giant crow appeared at the last part of the previous chapter of Wool and Water, 'Tweedledum and Tweedledee'

It was getting dark so suddenly that Alice thought there must be a thunderstorm coming on. ‘What a thick black cloud that is!’ she said. ‘And how fast it comes! Why, I do believe it’s got wings!’

‘It’s the crow!’ Tweedledum cried out in a shrill voice of alarm: and the two brothers took to their heels and were out of sight in a moment.

Alice ran a little way into the wood, and stopped under a large tree. ‘It can never get at me here,’ she thought: ‘it’s far too large to squeeze itself in among the trees. But I wish it wouldn’t flap its wings so—it makes quite a hurricane in the wood—here’s somebody’s shawl being blown away!’

In 'Wool and Water' White Queen said to Alice:

‘I’m sure I’ll take you with pleasure!’ the Queen said. ‘Twopence a week, and jam every other day.’

Alice couldn’t help laughing, as she said, ‘I don’t want you to hire me—and I don’t care for jam.’

‘It’s very good jam,’ said the Queen.

‘Well, I don’t want any to-day, at any rate.’

‘You couldn’t have it if you did want it,’ the Queen said. ‘The rule is, jam to-morrow and jam yesterday—but never jam to-day.’

‘It must come sometimes to “jam to-day,”’ Alice objected.

‘No, it can’t,’ said the Queen. ‘It’s jam every other day: to-day isn’t any other day, you know.’

‘I don’t understand you,’ said Alice. ‘It’s dreadfully confusing!’

‘That’s the effect of living backwards,’ the Queen said kindly: ‘it always makes one a little giddy at first—’

She said 'That's the effect of living backwards'

If we look back at "A Mad Tea Party" from Alice in Wonderland, these chapter are related to each other and those are :

‘Twopence a week, and jam every other day.’

The King’s Messenger (Hatta) who was in prison and being punished when this dialogue happened, White Queen said his trial doesn’t even begin till next Wednesday. Wednesday is the 3rd day of the week. If you multiply twopence by 3, you'll get 6 pence, which can be refered to the cost of the Hatter's hat, the price tag on the hat he wears. 10 shillings, 6 pence (10/6)

‘No, it can’t,’ said the Queen. ‘It’s jam every other day: to-day isn’t any other day, you know.’

The word 'jam' in english can also means 'stuck'. And in addition to the 6 in sixpence and how the White Queen talks about the King's messenger who is in prison afterwards, this is referring to the Hatter in 'Alice in Wonderland' who is stuck in time and becomes the prisoner of time, since he can't move past 6 o’clock (tea time)

And then the 'to-day isn’t any other day' part once again refers to the order of multiplication in quaternion which is non-commutative.

Interestingly In chapter 6 of twst, Crowley also get "arrested" to the Island of Woe along with overblot students and got stuck there. He is helpless and can't do anything about it. Just like Hatter in mad tea party and when Hatta is imprisoned.

Crowley's name, "Dire Crowley" was formed from the wordplay of Japanese katakana just like how Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass are full of wordplay. When being translated to Japanese, his name becomes

" ディア・クロウリ"

read : "Dia Kurouri"

Crowley's first name, Dire, has been retconned to be pronounced as "Dia" for katakana wordplay that makes it extremely similar to "Diablo", the name of Maleficient's raven in Sleeping Beauty when being read.

ディアブロ = Diaboro (Diablo)

ディアクロ = Dia Kuro

The riddle "Raven like a writing desk", particularly the word "Raven" is the key that refers to the never-ending mad tea party. Is this why Crowley always says he is kind because the collective name for Ravens is an Unkindness which is also Hatter's personal remarks about Alice's hair?

The name "Dire Crowley" also contains the word "Crow" in it. In addition to the crow being a hint in Through The Looking Glass that refers back to the Mad Tea Party, in the chapter of "A Mad Tea Party" from Alice in Wonderland, Hatter said :

“Well, I’d hardly finished the first verse,” said the Hatter, “when the Queen jumped up and bawled out, ‘He’s murdering the time! Off with his head!’”

Here the Hatter was being accused of 'murdering' the Time rather than just killing time, and hence the tea party being stopped at tea time. You know what is the collective noun for Crows? That's right, a murder of Crows.

Seeing how his name can form both "Crow" and "Raven", the key answer to the Mad Hatter riddle that relates to time and 4th dimension means that the key to another dimension (which also means a way for Yuu to go back home) is actually Crowley himself.

All this time, it's not that he doesn't know how to send Yuu back home and doesn't want to find a way for Yuu to go back. He knows from the very beginning ever since Yuu came to Twisted Wonderland because it was Crowley himself who summoned them. There's really no need for him to search a way for Yuu to go back to their world because he already knows. But just like every unique magic which has their own condition to work and its limitations no matter how powerful it is, Crowley's unique magic also has its limitations and can only be done in certain condition, which I'm going to explain later.

Also, if you didn't skip anything when you read this part, you will notice that Hatter/Hatta seems to always has trouble with laws. Just like Crowley does.

Crowley and His Connection to Blot : Mad Hatter Disease

The idiom “mad as a hatter” was around long before Carroll started writing. Colloquially used to describe an eccentric person, “mad as a hatter” is based on a problem that arose in the 1800s when hat companies used mercury in the hat-making process. The mercury got into their systems and they went insane, hence the term “mad as a hatter”.

The real milliners (hatters) in the old days used mercury at cluing the felt in hats making. During that process some of that mercury vaporized and the felt maker/ milliner accidently breathed some of that. And when they were exposed to mercury for many years it really started affecting them: skin began to pale down, nails began to gain some "yellowish" color, hair started to become fuzzy. Even pupils could become dilated. This is what later is called "Mad Hatter Syndrome/Disease"

The effect of Mercury on human bodies seems to be similar with overblot in Twisted Wonderland, since those who are overbloting will have change in their appearance (skin began to pale down), changes in behaviour and goes insane.

When this theory is written, we still don't know whether Lilia's magic is depleted because of old age or something else, but if it's because of old age, why does Crowley can still use magic in game (refer to Ortho's R vignette) while it seems like he is at the same age as Lilia or maybe even older?

Paler skin is one of the change in appearance for those who are overbloting. The fact that Crowley's skin tone is paler than even for normal faes (his skin shade is more of grayish rather than brownish when being compared to Malleus and Lilia) means that he might have been exposed to blot for a very long time just like the hatter in 1800s.

There're two possibilities why Crowley covers upper half of his face:

1. He is immortal.

This refers to Mad Hatter when he sings at the great concert given by Queen of Hearts and later accused for murdering the time by her. He should have been beheaded at that time, but somehow managed to escape and still alive and later having tea party with March Hare and Dormouse and can't move from there.

In "A Mad Tea Party" (chapter 7 of Alice in Wonderland) :

“Well, I’d hardly finished the first verse,” said the Hatter, “when the Queen jumped up and bawled out, ‘He’s murdering the time! Off with his head!’”

And in "Who Stole The Tarts" (chapter 11 of Alice in Wonderland) :

All this time the Queen had never left off staring at the Hatter, and, just as the Dormouse crossed the court, she said to one of the officers of the court, “Bring me the list of the singers in the last concert!” on which the wretched Hatter trembled so, that he shook both his shoes off.

2. It really is just my guess but if Crowley's magic has been depleted a long time ago just like Lilia, what if, the reason why even until now he can still uses magic is because he reuses magic excess, blot to perform magic and constantly poisoning himself with it just like hatters in 1800s?

As Mad Hatter, he might have immunity to blot just like Idia with his burning hair (his body can burn and cleanse blot) that it won't affect his mental state because his logic is already beyond comprehension and thus, technically he can't overblot (that's why he doesn't have phantom with him) since he is already "mad" even before he poisoned himself. But even though the blot doesn't affect his mental state, it still affects his body and his body starts to resemble those who overblot. His skin becomes paler, his lips turns black, and blot mark appears around his eyes so that he will need to cover it to hide it. That would also explain why in the prologue when he brought Yuu to Twisted Wonderland he says he is running out of time because his body is already at its limit.

Below is the explanation of blot by Crowley :

And explanation by Idia indicating that blot is a toxic substance.

Yeah, I know this is not the only explanation from Idia about blot. I chose this one for this part because even though I want to explain further since there's still something more about Crowley I need to explain, Tumblr decided to say no as I can't upload more photos(already reaching its limit). I want to explain my personal opinion about Crowley's intention based on my endless research on him for years but I guess this is it.

End Note : Originally I intended to explain it in one go and finish it all here in this part because it still connected to each other but I guess I'll still need to split it into two parts. I promise I'll explain the rest on the last part of this theory/analysis. Besides I'm afraid I might really break your brain if I do explain it all in one go so this is all for now.

#twisted wonderland #dire crowley #twst crowley #twst thoughts #twst theory #It's no longer a twst theory it's an academic paper #The fact that Crowley made me write a thesis about him-#but this is why I love him

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raven-at-the-writing-desk · 1 year

Note

plot twst (heheh) ending

after everything rollo ends up as a die hard simp for malleus and raven

maybe he even ships them when he finds out they’re not in fact related

[Related Posts: Part 1 / Part 2 / Part 3 / Part 4 / Part 5 / Part 6 / Part 7 / Part 8]

We skipped over the battle atop the bell tower part 😂 and immediately went to the resolution--

WELL. Seeing as how Rollo still seems super resentful and stubborn about his beliefs even by the time of the masquerade 🤡 probably not?? Maybe a burgeoning, begrudging smidgen of respect for stopping him before he did something unspeakable, something that would make his departed brother sad--even if he doesn’t openly or explicitly acknowledge that.

Malleus pressures Rollo into having a dance with him, so maybe the prince could pass him off to Raven afterwards (who’s dancing with Sebek--).

Something like...

“Pardon, may I cut in?” Malleus inquires, nodding towards his flustered knight.

“M-Milord wishes to share a dance?! OH, JOYOUS DAY!!” Beads of glistening tears collect in Sebek’s eyes. “B-But of course, that is not to say that I also do not enjoy dancing with Milady!! NOT AT ALL!!”

“You’ve been acting quite strangely this entire time,” Raven grumbles, relinquishing her grasp on Sebek. “He’s all yours, Malleus-senpai--”

Her voice fades away when she takes a look at Malleus’s partner--at the cold, pale hand slipping into hers. The diamond-cut jewel upon his middle finger catches a ray of glitter-cut moonlight and comes to life like a dancing flame. Raven’s heart jumps.

“... Miss.” Rollo’s tone is as pointed as glass. His eyebrows are creased with displeasure. “May I have this dance?”

Raven glances helplessly at Malleus. “Is Silver-senpai or Rook-senpai avaliable?” she squeaks.

He folds his arms, his expression turning stern. “Young Crowley, you must not waver. Let your conviction be known. For your words to be heard, and for them to resonate with those who need it most... That is what you desire most of all, is it not?”

What I desire most of all.

Raven stares at him, unable to argue. He speaks the truth, and she cannot deny it.

Then, like a fairy godmother or a genie of the lamp having granted the final wish, Malleus turns away and vanishes. Not with sparkles or with fanfare, but by quietly gliding across the dance floor, Sebek trailing after.

“Hmph.” Rollo sniffs stiffly, letting his hand drop. “You must truly detest me.”

“... Not at all.” She tries to sound friendly, and she can’t tell if she’s successful or not. “I think we’re a lot alike. And maybe... just maybe... that might be why I’m a little scared of you--and why I feel so sad too. Because it’s scary looking into the mirror and seeing the ugliness of your soul reflected back.”

The surprise lasts for only a second before a glare wipes it clean off. “What nonsense. What could you possibly understand about me?”

“I understand more than you believe I do.” Raven sadly shakes her head. “... You once described magic as being a ‘cage’ that keeps me locked in. You said that I should be set free from it.”

Whether Rollo-senpai realizes it or not... Back then, he was also talking about himself. She ached at the thought, her cheeks heating up and her eyes threatening to burst into tears.

“But I don’t think that’s true at all. It’s not the magic that’s caging me or holding me back. I think... it’s this.” Raven taps at her chest. “Guilt, self-hatred, and fear—but I was fortunate enough to go to Night Raven College, to meet people that changed those doubts into hope.”

“I believe I asked for a dance, not for a lecture or your pity.” Rollo takes an abrupt step back. His handkerchief of moons and stars flutters into view, hiding his nose and mouth—but his eyes burn with a smoldering disgust. “The fault was not my own, so why should I be forced to endure your self-righteousness?”

Her feathers quiver, as if set aflame by his scathing words. Yet she does not balk from the heat.

What I desire most of all is…

Raven inhales shakily and presses on. “If you look around, you’ll realize that there are others that care for you and want to see you at your best. You don’t need to face your pain alone anymore.”

Raven tilts her head, and Rollo follows her line of sight. Nestled away in the corner of the room are his vice president and aide, glasses of punch and ours d'oeuvres in hand. They’re excitedly chatting about something with a stocky, animated gargoyle.

Rollo frowns, his face crumpling into a complicated expression.

“That’s something I had to learn for myself, so... I know it’s possible for you too, Rollo-senpai. Let others in. Reflect, repent, and forgive yourself. Only then can you rediscover joy.” Raven gives what she thinks is a reassuring smile. “I’m sure he would have wished for your happiness as well.”

At this, Rollo startles, crushing his handkerchief in his fingers. Hot and cold, fire and ice, rage in his veins. Through gritted teeth, he hisses, “... As if it could be so simple. Do not lump me in with you, the sort of degenerate that relishes her captivity.”

But there is a tug at his conscience. A discrepancy in his observations. They give him pause.

The merciless Malleus Draconia, condemning him to his thoughts. The merciful Raven Crowley, pleading for him to change his ways. Two sides, opposites.

“You…” Rollo narrows his eyes, the fire in them dimming from hate to hesitant curiosity. “Just what ARE you? You’re clearly nothing like the others from Night Raven College. No--you’re too... kind, too fuzzy, like some Royal Sword Academy student.”

"I’m a raven. I just made my nest and found a family of friends where the wind took me.”

“... Nfufu. I see it now.” Rollo crosses his arms, smirking. “It appears I was gravely mistaken. Of course. You are not the same as that man.”

There is no conceivable way that a fool as soft as this one would be related to Malleus Draconia.

“... I don’t know if I enjoy whatever conclusion that you’ve come to just now. It feels as though you’re looking down on me.” Raven sighs. “Well... as long as you take my advice to heart--”

“I never said I would.”

“... Has anyone told you that your attitude is positively infuriating?”

“Were I a mirror, I would say the same to you--since you claim that we are so alike.”

“………………………. If I am like you, and you are like me, then I will be your reflection and repeat your words back to you.” She extends a hand. “May I have this dance?”

ANYWAY I’M TOO TIRED TO WRITE MORE SO JUST PICTURE THEM ALSO SHARING AN AWKWARD DANCE WHILE THEY GLARE AT EACH OTHER LIKE ROLLO DID WITH MALLEUS

I find the “Rollo ships Raven with Malleus” angle difficult to incorporate, since I don’t really think Rollo would assume such a thing. I don’t personally see the ship either. If I had to describe Raven and Malleus’s relationship, it doesn’t really come off as romantic. It’s more like a clear mentor and mentee relationship, with Malleus as the strong, confident leader that Raven quietly admires and tries to learn from and live up to. At best, maybe Rollo would leave the masquerade thinking they’re co-conspirators against him.

Meanwhile, Sebek leaves the event still thinking Malleus and Raven are distant relatives because no one bothered to clarify for him--

#twst oc #twisted wonderland oc #Rollo Flamme #Sebek Zigvolt #Malleus Draconia #I like how Rook is technically present but I just didn't simp for him at all #HE DIDN'T HAVE THAT BIG OF A ROLE #there's nothing for me to scream about #sorry Rook #Raven Crowley #she can somewhat relate to taking extreme measures to try and achieve something she wants but at the cost of another's life #though the difference is that she had people willing to support her that put her on the right track #so. maybe she's hopeful for Rollo to have that someday too #YES I WROTE THE GARGOYLES JOINING IN BECAUSE THEY TOTALLY DESERVE A DANCE PARTY #Rollo Flamm

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