#alex talks good omens

[actual-changeling]

and so it begins.

Edit: If you plan on disagreeing with me just fuck off and make your own post, I'm getting tired of it.

#alex talks good omens #good omens #ineffable husbands #crowley #aziraphale #good omens season 2 #go2 #aziracrow #crowley x aziraphale #good omens season 3

[aroaceblackhole]

For the time being, I have three modes:

Obsessing about Good Omens season 2

2. Obsessing over Heartstopper season 2

3. Obsessing over the Red White & Royal Blue movie

#i'm going to be a terrible person to talk to very soon #i just love them all so much #good omens 2 #good omens #aziraphale #crowley #ineffable husbands #heartstopper 2 #heartstopper #nick nelson #charlie spring #narlie #red white and royal blue #rwrb #alex claremont diaz #henry fox mountchristen windsor #firstprince

[willgrahamscock]

you better not be going to super hell or super heaven or super time when I get there

#alex says things #hello??? nobody talk to me im traumatized #spn #good omens #loki #can u let gay people be happy

[thedevilmademedo1t]

Yall idk what im gonna do after next week. Its gonna be a gay show hangover that i am not emotionally, mentally or physically prepared for.

I guess i’ll just have to watch them all. Over. And over. And over again. oh no.

I just have to last to october and then foist all my problems off on ofmd season 2

#devil talks #devil should probably not #good omens #crowley #aziraphale #ineffable husbands #rwrb #rwrb film #red white and royal blue #prince henry of wales #henry fox mountchristen windsor #alex claremont diaz #heartstopper #heartstopper 2 #nick and charlie #nick nelson #charlie spring #im gay your honor #jsyk #ofmd #our flag means death #ed teach #blackbeard ofmd #stede fucking bonnet #stede bonnet #gentlebeard #blackbeard x stede

[sentientsky]

Crowley + Attachment Style

I was talking to @actual-changeling the other day about attachment styles, and they confirmed my idea that Crowley is, contrary to popular belief, not someone with an anxious attachment style. Rather, like Aziraphale, he exhibits signs of a fearful-avoidant/disorganized attachment style (just in a slightly different and less obvious way). I’ve had this draft kicking around since September (??? October?? time is an illusion), so enjoy my silly (not-so-little) ramblings. TW // discussion of child abuse (not explicit) Okay, I've seen a couple of discussions surrounding this (cue me doing a frantic, sleep-deprived Tumblr Literature Review approx. five minutes ago), so this is just me tossing two pennies into a fountain, shrugging, and walking away. I totally see how Crowley could be interpreted as having an anxious attachment style. At the same time, as someone with a fearful-avoidant/disorganized attachment style (thanks, dad! <3), I believe there's space to explore that as a possibility.

My credentials, you ask?? Decades of trauma and an intimate knowledge of what it's like to have a disorganized attachment style (I'm WORKING ON IT, okay?? lol). Also a fuckton of research. All sources will be linked because I am a professional (&lt;- LYING). Okay, so let's do a quick crash course on attachment theory as a concept itself, and then shift into manifestations of disorganized attachment style (I'm going to call it "DAS" for short bc I'm tired). I'm doing this as a formality, because let's be honest. Would you be in this fandom without having had experienced at least some measure of childhood trauma? What is Attachment Theory? (source) "Attachment theory, in developmental psychology, [is] the theory that humans are born with a need to form a close emotional bond with a caregiver and that such a bond will develop during the first six months of a child’s life if the caregiver is appropriately responsive." There are a variety of attachment styles, each of which differently predicts how an individual will react in interpersonal situations according to how they were raised. While there are, obviously, further nuances to this, a core group of four feature most prominently:

Let's go deeper. What does it mean to have a DAS? In short, a DAS (also known as "fearful-avoidant attachment style") often comes about as a result of childhood abuse. The child relies upon the caregiver to ensure their (the child's) survival. However, when the parent is abusive (physically, emotionally, verbally, etc.), this obviously poses a threat to the wellbeing of the child. So they develop this deep-rooted sense of distrust and fear. It helps me to think of it as a flame: you want to be warmed by the heat of the fire, but if you get too close, you'll get burnt. Consequently, you're trapped in this wavering "too close", "too far" situation. One of the best explanations I've read with regards to DAS is from this source:

Separation and abandonment (though most likely to produce an organized form of attachment, such as anxious or avoidant) can lead to the establishment of a DAS:

(source) After experiencing abuse and abandonment in Heaven, and again as a Fallen angel, Crowley has, like Aziraphale, been exposed to conditions that would create this particular attachment style (for a further explanation of Aziraphale's DAS, see this post). However, as I mentioned in the above linked post,

In contrast, Crowley has a more nuanced, consequentialist view of morality. Having Fallen, having intimately known the depths of what both Heaven and Hell are capable of (e.g., his time in Hell post-1827), he isn't living with this unpredictable "parent"--he solidly understands that the existing system is fundamentally wrong.

At times, he does experience what appears to be ambivalence (or, more likely, a sense of deep-rooted loss and abandonment):

However, the Final Fifteen emphasizes that this lingering mindset is overridden by the acknowledgment of an innately harmful structure:

Having established this, what does Crowley's DAS look like + how does it differ from Aziraphale's? Well, in my research, I would posit "compulsive caregiving" plays a role. Compulsive Caregiving What is "compulsive caregiving"? It's a form of DAS that emerges as a result of specific developmental conditions. Having their needs (or QUESTIONS) ignored or else punished by a caregiver, a child may learn to "never ask for anything", and instead care for others, often sacrificing their own wellbeing/needs for the sake of the other party (see further explanations below).

(Sources: 1, 2, 3, 4)

Here, we can see how Crowley might fall into the category of "compulsive care-giving". Both he and Azi try to protect each other to a severe degree, but Crowley's compulsivity might be a bit more apparent in this regard. He's learned not to ask for the things he wants (avoidant manifestation), but he also feels a desperate need to prove himself and protect Aziraphale through compulsive caregiving (anxious manifestation). It's only with his back pressed against the figurative wall in the Final Fifteen (or on the brink of Armageddon in season 1) that he is able to say it plainly. The Push-And-Pull of DAS As has been discussed so many times previously, this idea of ambivalence also features prominently in the relationship between Crowley and Aziraphale themselves. There's a constant push-and-pull in their dynamic, as evidenced below: Aziraphale refers to him as a friend, he compliments him, exists in close quarters with him, etc...

But he also pushes Crowley away and consistently reiterates the categorical black-and-white thinking of Heaven/Hell.

[Disclaimer: I acknowledge that this wavering attitude, while infuriating and unfair to Crowley, is also largely as a result of religious trauma; Aziraphale needs some serious therapy. As we see exhibited throughout the Final Fifteen, Aziraphale still believes that Heaven is, fundamentally, good (or at least holds the capacity to become good). This doesn't negate the fact that he loves Crowley, but it does impact the way he views the two of them and their relationship, causing a significant strain and eventual break in their bond].

So we have the root, we have the manifestations within the other party, but how does this DAS figure within Crowley's character itself? Manifestations of DAS in Adulthood

Speaking from personal experience, DAS can manifest in adult life in several ways. In the present day, I tend to (But not always! I'm getting better, lol) attach myself to people who are touch-and-go; who variously show me affection and disinterest (*cough cough* my ex-bsf). Often, when I felt like the other person was pulling away/withdrawing, I would also pull away. Because my caregivers flipped between rage and calm, venom-spitting hatred and comforting affection very, very quickly and very, very easily, I had to constantly be on edge, anticipating my next move and ready to go into resolution/fawning mode ("compulsive caretaking") at the drop of a hat. And that notion of push-and-pull, "never really knowing where you stand" is what I grew up thinking of as love. This pulling away in the face of perceived rejection can also point to issues with self-esteem...

SIDEBAR: CROWLEY AND SELF-ESTEEM The way Crowley is written with regards to his trauma responses is so interesting and also so real to me. We have this entity who has spent the better part of six thousand years (likely more, because we don't have a definitive timeline for the Fall) believing he is so thoroughly and utterly unwanted as to be pushed to the underbelly of the Universe, hidden away amongst sulphur and agony and absence.

Speaking as someone with ah...childhood...uh. issues (sure, let's call it that. why not?), after being told that you are disgusting, horrible, unworthy, etc. so many times, you begin to believe it. And because, as children, we're forced to rely on primary caregivers, often the only way to maintain that connection lies in the internalization of that unworthiness, to the point where it's difficult to separate you from these ideas of worthlessness. And because you've experienced it so consistently throughout your life, you also come to anticipate rejection; you look for it everywhere, feeling as though it's right around the corner. Therefore, to kind of pre-emptively avoid emotional harm (or because you feel unworthy of asking for more or for reassurance), you cauterize the figurative wound and pull away. We'll come back to this idea in a couple moments! Returning to the main point, let's look at these markers of a DAS more broadly:

(source)

Let's go through each of these, step-by-step. Again, remember, not all of these symptoms have to be present all of the time. These are the ones I see most prominently in Crowley (of course, please, please, please feel free to correct me or build on this! i'm in NO way an expert).

"You find it difficult to open up to others" + "You tend to keep conversations on the surface level because it's uncomfortable to be vulnerable"

"You have a negative self-view of both yourself and others" (mostly himself, in this case!)

"You often dissociate from your emotions" + "You withdraw when you feel vulnerable or emotional" For this one, I'm just going to invite you to read Alex's post here. They phrase it better than I ever could, lol.

SIDEBAR #2: Withdrawal + Good Omens Lockdown @yowlthinks also made an excellent point regarding something i said here. In the Good Omens Lockdown audio clip, we notice Crowley pushing the boundary line, forthrightly offering to come over to the bookshop and stay for a while at the height of the pandemic (see below):

When Aziraphale outright rejects him, Crowley recoils and quickly says goodbye, intending to set his alarm for July. Here, we see the way in which disorganized attachment operates as a fusion of both anxious and avoidant behaviours; despite wanting to be close, he pulls back immediately and (presumably) resolves not to discuss the fact that he lost his flat and is now sleeping in his Bentley. (As my former philosophy professors have tried to impress upon me so many times,) It's important we consider alternative explanations. It could be possible that this is just him respecting Aziraphale's boundaries and returning to practices that seek to remedy the whole "you go too fast for me" issue. However, this kind of behaviour occurs time and time again, establishing a pattern that goes beyond simply protecting Azi's boundaries, and may index a desire to keep himself safe through emotional avoidance. "You have a hard time self-soothing your emotions" [insert lightning scene here]. He's trying, you guys. He's trying so hard, but it's difficult (and i'd genuinely like to get a scene in s3 where he's allowed to be well and truly angry. no, i'm totally not projecting, why do you ask? what are u, a cop???)! It seems that he turns to repression in the absence of actual emotional processing or soothing (until it comes out all at once, in the case of the lightning). This makes sense, as well, considering there have been very few instances in which he's been truly comforted or soothed by others. Not having comfort modelled to him, combined with his pre-existing low self-esteem helps to illuminate why he turns to repression opposed to taking time to care for himself, etc. Broader Implications + S3 Speculation Alright, we're almost done, I promise! So we've established (or at the very least, put forth an argument for) disorganized attachment in Anthony Janthony Crowley. What does this mean in the context of where we left things off at the end of S2? From my perspective, it means that what happened was completely in-character for both of them. Aziraphale's DAS manifests in more of the traditional, hot-and-cold fearful-avoidance. For Crowley, his caretaking compulsivity finally snapped in the Final Fifteen; Heaven is one place he cannot follow, and exhausted, he walks away (only to stand out on the street, further pointing to the anxious/avoidant duality). I would argue that there was no trick, nothing in the coffee, no coded messages, etc. Rather, like humans, they are both shaped by their trauma and responded in accordance with this. (@actual-changeling has some excellent metas where they further expand on the idea that there was no trick involved in the final fifteen: x. this meta too!: x. massive credit to them, as always hehe)

What about in S3? Speaking from personal experience (because the surrounding literature wasn't super helpful haha), a disorganized attachment style must be unlearned, with a few key factors at play: Since DAS is grounded in formative experiences of volatility, the survival of the individual has to be decoupled from the preservation of connection (with family members, partners, friends, etc.); more specifically, your worth and ability to persist is not dependent on maintaining connection with another. This is incredibly difficult to unlearn when you've experienced it for a couple decades, let alone so many thousands of years. t h e r a p y (pls neil, i need an episode where it’s just Crowley going to see a psychiatrist and he breaks down crying and it’s like “oh yeah. that was really fucked up what happened to me”. again. totally not projecting! <- as always, don’t actually send stuff like this to Neil). Okay, finally. We're at the end. I apologize for the sheer length of this analysis. I had to cut it off here, because the original was going to be wayyyyy longer with more discussion/analysis/etc. However. I am TIRED. So here you go! ✨TaH DaH! ✨ (please don't yell at me ajsdlasjkd. i love azi and crowley both so much and this is just my own interpretation/opinion as someone with a disorganized attachment style lol)

#AGAIN TO REITERATE: this is not attacking aziraphale. i love that guy (gn). i would die for him #this is just me highlighting some ideas i had ab attachment style #there are so many gaps in this but my brain is all foggy rn. sorry ahdasdguhgh #i'm so sorry this is so long btw. i got talking to alex and both our brains went nyooooom #good omens meta #good omens #gomens #crowley #ineffable husbands #good omens 2 #aziracrow #aziraphale #go2 #ineffable lovers #ineffable wives #good omens season 2 #gomens 2 #david tennant #gomens meta #attachment theory #long post #michael sheen #tw: childhood trauma #tw: child abuse #REALLY LONG POST #final fifteen #good omens analysis #no nightingales #good omens renewal #neil gaiman

[blorbodiaz]

“get humans wet and starting into each others eyes. vavoom, sorted.”

- how to get the gays to fall in love according to crowley

#he saw it once in a richard curtis film #sorry i had to #angel talks #red white and royal blue #good omens 2 #firstprince #rwrb #rwrb movie #go2 #crowley #aziraphale #alex claremont diaz #prince henry

[pissywiser]

nooo ... dont edit crowley and aziraphale to the end of the world by the cure .... hahha ... .... unless ? 😏😏

#alex talks #good omens #crowley #aziraphale #aziracrow #gomens #ineffable husbands

[the-patrex]

Give it up for an early weekend lads

#bar w the mates lets gooo #how many beers in till I talk abt good omens place your bets #shut up alex

[totalfandomfreak]

Anyone wanna freak out over Tumblr DM’s about Good Omens or Heartstopper or Red White and Royal Blue … or better yet - all three?

Please send me a message - I need like-minded friends 😂 x

#good omens season 2 spoilers #good omens #red white and royal blue #good omens 2 #crowley x aziraphale #ineffable husbands #rwrb film #rwrb movie #alex claremont diaz #henry fox mountchristen windsor #heartstopper #nick nelson #charlie spring #nick and charlie #lgbtq positivity #lets talk #tao and elle #tara and darcy

[varyathevillain]

on one hand, I still don't love the "Crowley is Raphael" idea, because I feel like it's more impactful for him to be an important angel, but like, not on the Highest Levels Of Them, like Ariel (Earth's great Lord in Heywood, a name "both of angel and a demon", association to early pagan religions where children and livestock were sacrificed by immolation, reference to s2e2) or Kokabiel (the angel of Stars, fallen angel, the burning light, teacher of astrology).

I would, however, accept it on one big condition: it's heavily implied he's Raphael, but every time someone tries to address him as such there's a blaring NOISE going off. because Gd said "no" to deadnaming, because Crowley would rather have a name that came out of a nickname that turned into a soft love word, than something that was ASSIGNED to him in Heaven.

#Crowley is a trans name don't @ me #Good Omens S2 #Good Omens Season 2 #GO S2 #Good Omens #text post #Varya rambles #Good Omens S2 spoilers #Good Omens Season 2 spoilers #GO Crowley #also the only thing I'm stepping my foot down is that he's NOT Barachiel #bc why would a fallen angel. a demon. be in the CURRENT ANGELS book. and it being Crowley #I personally remember a lot about how people used Barachiel for angel!Beelzebub and thought this was a nod from a prop artist so #have a soft spot for 'Crowley is Ariel' because of how me and Alex have been talking about him and his legacy in '19 #and also because the little mermaid parallels of him sacrificing so much for love 🥺😭 #i also like the Kokabiel one at least in part because he's supposed to be of Raphael's host as well and to be one of makers of the stars

[alex-leweird]

Funny thing with Good Omens is that I ship them in tv series but not in the book.

#good omens #Alex talks

[actual-changeling]

i have watched the kiss scene and the breakup as a whole more times than i can count and my brain is still trying to process all the things it picked up on.

my newest painful obsession: aziraphale thought crowley came back for him.

they kiss, aziraphale says i forgive you and instead condemns them both, crowley leaves. the lip touching itself is fucking essay worthy because holy SHIT the amount of micro expressions flickering across his face is endless, michael sheen acted his ass off.

i think it's a mixture of surprise, unspoken love, a HEAVY dose of fear, disbelief, and oh my god what did he just do what did i just do. he turns away from the door and we get a very very quick shot of how exactly he is angled.

standing up straight with faked spiteful anger, the same anger he spit at crowley out of fear and insecurity, chin up, clearly waiting for something - or rather someone. we gotta remember that every single time crowley has left aziraphale, he came back. every. single. time. he came back and apologized, that's what they do.

crowley comes back and aziraphale forgives him and they continue bearing their silence.

the bell rings when the door opens again, just like it did when crowley left, and just. look at his face. how quickly he swivels around. the blink and you will miss it spark of hope.

and then the pure devastation when he realizes it's not crowley.

aziraphale thought crowley was coming back for him. he was WAITING for him to come back. even after all that, he couldn't imagine crowley actually leaving him behind, especially not after that kiss and his entire indirect love confession.

just like crowley thought for a tiny heartbeat that aziraphale was kissing him back, aziraphale hoped, hell, he fucking thought he KNEW crowley would never abandon him. not after "i could always rely on you. you could always rely on me." aziraphale has taken him for granted, of course he thought it was him coming through the door.

but that spark of hope gets stomped out beneath the metatrash's feet and he fully turns around, unable to face him and the reality of it all.

this time, he went too far.

this time, crowley did not want forgiveness.

he was about to say i love you and turned it into i forgive you, still clinging to their old ways, their old rituals, just that they are no longer those beings, no longer in that specific relationship. everything has changed.

they both thought the other would never abandon them. turns out they were both wrong.

#alex talks good omens #good omens #good omens season 2 #good omens 2 spoilers #ineffable husbands #aziraphale #crowley #aziracrow #aziraphale x crowley #good omens meta #listen im dying over here

[romansmartini]

back in my day side characters people shipped together for standing side by side stayed standing side by side #bringbackqueerbaiting

#good omens #i’m joking. love wins #me and alex were just talking about how beelzebub and gabriel were sooo mystrade #in season 1 obv

[agaymushroom]

There'd Better be a Mirror Ball by the Arctic Monkeys is so Crowley coded.

#like id throw the rose tint back on the exploded view #telling himself that getting emotional isn't like him #TALKS IN THE CARRR #COME ON LIKE IT COULD BE A STRETCH BUT ALSO IN MY HEAD DAVID TENNET AND ALEX TURNER ARE THE SAME FONT OF PERSON #good omens #crowley #crowly x aziraphale

[the-darkgod]

its like - just from the start of the season they weren't talking, weren't communicating. aziraphale asks crowley if he would help him with gabriel (because it is the right thing to do, because aziraphale believes that crowley is - despite everything - good and nice and will do the right thing), and eventually crowley does (because hell is interested in it, because aziraphale has put himself in danger, because crowley wants to protect this bubble of peace and togetherness that they have crafted together)

so crowley helps with gabriel, of course he does, he would have never done anything different. and so, for aziraphale, of course crowley should be thrilled to realize he could be an angel again, that he could go back to heaven. aziraphale has seen him make the right choice, after all

#alex speaks #good omens #good omens 2 #me thru tears: please just TALK to each other im begging you #but also its going to take a LOT for aziraphale to break out of his 'heaven good' mindset #i mean... its one of those things yknow? you sacrifice so much to believe in something #then what are you meant to do when you realize that its all a lie? #and its going to hurt even more now bc crowley isn't going to be by his side when his worldview comes crashing down around him #just...hopefully crowley will be there to help him pick up the pieces in the end...

[sentientsky]

In the place where the foundations shiver with the weight of every ghost you’ve laid to rest beneath the floorboards / In the liminal, staticky place where you were first made monstrous (made hollow and whimpering and fickle) / In the place that tore you lengthwise and emptied you onto the front porch, you learn to swallow back the rage, hold it captive and writhing in your gut. 

You learn your way around a set of teeth.

You learn the hackles-raised, jagged-mouthedness of a home without a scrap of heat. You learn how to pull each of your canines out by the bloodied pulp, all nerve endings and the blunted edges of grief.

You learn it because what other choice do you have? What’s the alternative, when all you’ve ever known is the dull scrape of your back against the wall, of your heart tearing clear through your chest?

And god, god, god (you pray to an empty sky). God, you’re so bitter and your bones are all galvanized under your skin, and it hurts. It fucking hurts. 

And yet you’d sooner turn your own snapping jaws on yourself than risk learning what happens to animals that misbehave.

So you make yourself small, you make yourself antiseptic and supplicating and placid. You domesticate every thrashing need to escape. You walk into a family dinner with darting yellow eyes: Cerberus with three heads, each maw zip-tied shut by your own hand. You show them the soft flesh of your underbelly—you show the whites of your eyes.

You bite back the terror, you choke on the wrath. Because what else is there to do? (inspired by this post from @actual-changeling. thanks for the gut-wrench, alex </3)

#not super happy with how this one turned out but i have too much work to do to keep futzing with it ugh #we'll return to good omens content after this short break sponsored by alex “hey dude WHAT THE FUCK” changeling <3 :) #okay tbh my relationship with my parents is a LOT better now and i'm grateful for that (though i shouldn't *have* to feel grateful) #(since being decent to your kids should be a fucking GIVEN) #but some fucked up shit happened that never ever ever ever should have happened #and im still angry ab it. i love my parents + things are getting better don't get me wrong #but there's still unresolved shit i think #(ooooh i am NOT good at talking ab this outside of a poetic context am i??? my moral ocd is kicking in like “mm you're doing smthg wrong!”) #(even tho im not????) #okay done traumadumping in the tags. jester hat goes back on teehee :) #not good omens #poetry #my poetry #tw: child abuse #tw: childhood trauma #tw: blood #my words #tw: body horror #on home #on childhood trauma #dog motif #poems