#anti vs. pro stuff

[starrbar]

The irony of how much this actually disrespects rape victims tho.

I'm so fucking tired of people putting the language of harm reduction in their disgusting, abusive mouths.

Shut the fuck up about "victims" when we all know you ONLY care about your narrative. All the "bad" victims who "cope wrong" will be treated like garbage anyway. Your "support" is worthless and toxic. Go away.

#anti vs. pro stuff #starrspeaks #realworldblues #fandom discourse #proship #profiction #anti harassment #comship #rant #anti receipts

[seleneprince]

Kind reminder that the reason so many innocent children are having such horrible deaths in Gaza is because Hamas, their government who's "just fighting back against the oppression", hide their warring weapons and guns underneath civilian locations, specially schools and hospitals, because they know it's a win-win tactic for them.

-If Israel doesn't attack their hiding places because of the civilians, Hamas gets to keep their armament and continue killing Jews.

-If Israel does attack the hiding places and kill countless civilians in the process, they'll be depicted as the villains and more support for Hamas' cause. Literally nobody would mention the previous weaponry station that was there.

You're welcome.

#since the media doesn't want to explain these stuff I will #Hamas isn't fighting for Palestine they just want to eradicate Jews from the Earth #if you do a quick research about them you'll see thats their primary goal #pro palestine #pro israel #anti hamas #free palestine #israel vs palestine #Palestine #Israel #Hamas

[anqelbean]

Man, looking through danmei confessions was a mistake

#the sj pro vs anti discussion is RANCID on there #none of it is the mods' fault ofc they're doing a great job with the blog #but there's a reason I don't follow it #not getting into discourse is my new new year's resolution so I'm staying FAR away from the shen jiu discussion. #nothing good comes out of it anyway #it's so polarizing people are fucking idiots over it #people on both sides need to take a fucking chill pill #and realise they fell RIGHT into mxtx's expertly laid trap #this is EXACTLY what happened in canon #mxtx literally stated 'hey he isn't good OR bad you cannot fit him into those boxes' and people STILL try to force him in either one #babe he cannot fit into either. you are trying to stuff him into one box by cutting off the parts of him that don't fit— #— until you have a box filled to the brim with no room to breathe and a bloodied mess on the floor outside of it where the rest of him lies #(just like pidw) #anqels ramblings #eva.txt

[hornyjail23]

Hey king/queen/my lord have you watched Jujutsu Kaisen before because if not that art u just reblogged might be vaguely upsetting to you

Hello fellow Tumblr person,

No, I don't know the show and from a quick Google search, nothing upsetting jumps out at me.

The art is nice and a bit sexy. I see someone, possibly one of the 2 in the art, has a hand in their palm, which this blog is full of monster smut so that's pretty tame, imo.

Again, doing a quick Google, something about curses that must being eaten, but not finding characters names to faces, nothing upsetting is jumping out. Closest upsetting thing is possible incest maybe I'm guessing? Idk honestly.

But I do thank you for your kindness for the warning.

#i truly have no clue #just some nice art #now if this is some pro ship vs anti ship stuff #i really dont care #i already dont said i dont know this show #and i am a firm believer in #ship and let ship

[dreamlanddoll]

sometimes you just gotta look at a long ass essay post and say "you know what, I'm not well-versed or educated enough in this subject to leave a comment or contribute to the conversation" and scroll past. Not even like or reblog it to seem like you are morally correct or to show your mutuals that you agree with them, just scroll.

#literally all this anti vs proship stuff is so confusing bc I'll hear news from twitter and be like ??? #bee talks #not an anti or a pro but a secret third thing (blocking someone when im uncomfortable with the content that they produce)

[xchoco-mixturex]

*deep breathes*

Ready i guess

I DONT CARE FOR AGE GAPS THAT ARE LIKE 2 TO 6 YEARS TBFH GET THE FUCK OUT IF YOU DO

Holy fuck this reminds me of that shitty area of genshin fndm

#thats the post stop annoying me #also i couldnt care less for the pro vs anti bs im too old for that crap #i feel unconfortable with stuff? yes #is ppl valid to feel unconfortable with stuff? also yes #like my sibling in christ i get ir if it was like 30 years gap and a damn kid but-- #sheeesh ppl be trying to kick me for a 18-21 ship #or i have seen bs with a 17-18 gap like...itd a fucking year #and dont come out with the brain cortex bs i study that shit

[blackstrawberrybang]

every other month on there's AO3 discourse between fans on twatter and idk man i enjoy ao3 too but also im not doing any of that nonsense

#pro vs anti stuff idc ive been harassed by both im not playing ur silly games im 26

[de1-os]

hey i just wanted to make sure bc you draw gore and stuff but are you proship? just wanted to make sure!

Hey gamers if you ever want to give me a migraine that lasts 3 weeks Instantly you can send me stuff like this ^^^

#keni.ask #anon #while i do have opinions on the whole pro vs anti topic #any serious response i could make requires an amount of effort and energy i can use elsewhere more productively #like ok ill elaborate if its That Big of a deal to ppl I Guess #but if you approach me w bad faith intentions like you want me to state some cancelable offense go do something better with your time please #also jusy scroll through my blog see whether or not you vibe with me n the stuff i draw like you can do that. on your own

[anacrea]

just read recent comments on a 9 year old song parody from tumblr saying it's "proship"..... honey we didn't have that in my day, it was just normal. Seeing people on your timeline shipping onceler with himself or the brothers from supernatural was just another day on here.

#i'm too old for this pro vs anti stuff which is fucking hysterical because I'm 22. i'm not even old.

[daemophagia]

I don't usually look into or care about fandom drama but sometimes I do think it's funny when ppl go "is this proship or not?" like. Idk man maybe if you were less worried about silly fandom arguments and thought about things on your own you would have come to the conclusion on whether what you're doing is okay or not a good while ago

#words from the daemophage #like #do you ppl really care about not being weird and shitty online or do you just not want to be on the ''evil side'' of your little war #i think pro vs anti stuff is stupid if that wasn't clear

[starrbar]

No one is complaining about antishippers "too much".

Your "warning" posts are not innocent.

If you didn't want people to be harassed, you wouldn't promote a culture of othering them.

And if you do want people to be harassed for mere art, you're an abusive person.

If you want people to be ostracized for art and kinks, you're a bigot. By definition.

#anti vs. pro stuff #proship #fandom discourse #starrspeaks

[whitehairedanimeboyfriend]

I just wanna say that I've seen some people talk about pro vs anti stuff recently on my dash and I want to say this: proship is only a thing because antis shifted the Overton Window online and began harassing people for fiction they interacted with. Most of the people that say they're proship now are just. Older people that minded their own business back in old fandom days. Proship honestly is a misnomer because shipping is such a small part of it. It's just lowhanging fruit that antis get worked up about the most. Because it's easier to attack kids that are interested in that sort of thing than the adults who don't give a shit what some dork on the internet thinks is problematic.

Proship does NOT mean

That we think works or artists should not be criticized ever.

That we shouldn't adapt particular lenses when viewing certain kinds of works

That all works are "good."

Proship DOES mean

Artists should not be harassed for what they create. They especially should not be doxxed and sent death threats.

Works, on their own, do not cause people to commit bad actions. How works are presented and distributed and who consumes them matters. (IE tag your fanfiction! This also includes viewer discretion notices and ratings in conventional media. This allows adults to avoid content that upsets them, and for parents to be mindful of their children.)

Works shouldn't be purged or erased. Even highly problematic works are worthy of archiving, especially so we can study them. (Mein Kampf and Birth of a Nation are good examples of this. If we lost these works we would lose access to studying them and the ability to contextualize parts of history we shouldn't forget and are still affecting us today.)

Shipping isn't activism. Fandom isn't activism. It's a hobby. You should care more about the tangible things you can do for your community more than the fact some teenage girl thinks the boys from Killing Stalking are hot or wants the Fnaf robots to kiss.

#proship

[cmrosens]

Creating fantasy religions: something I'm doing now so thought I would post about my process.

The mistake a lot of writers make is developing a religion from a singular event, and piling a ton of stuff on top of it that makes logical sense. Whereas, in reality, religions are self propelling systems that travel under their own steam and if there is an event that catalyses them, it is never in a socio-cultural or political and economic vacuum.

You also end up with an apparently totally random set of things attached to one figure which does make sense if you know the origins, but otherwise is just accepted even if the meaning is lost.

It is the difference between "the god of Midwinter and festivals around this originated because a cult of necromancers were banished into the frozen wastes and this <event> became the Origin Story for how we got to a midwinter festival with creepy bone puppets in my fantasy world" and a religion that feels ... Real.

Ok so firstly, this is a bit too neat. (This was my original reasoning for a midwinter god called Yarash and I changed it because it wasn't very realistic or interesting for my world.)

Why, let's say, is the god whose feast is at midwinter also the patron of puppet makers and osteopaths?

Well, we could say that this makes a lot of sense because the god's festival was originally to do with remembering the dead, and puppets were used in the festival to represent the dead, as necromancy should have been part of it but people didn't actually know how to raise the dead properly. Then as magic evolved people could actually raise the dead for short periods to deliver messages in these festivals, but this drew internal debate from the conservative priests who thought puppets were the original form and so should be maintained, and necromancy was an aberration, vs the progressives who saw necromancy as the original INTENTION and so the natural and correct progression from the puppets. The debate might rage on for years creating splinters, sects, differing traditions that sit uneasily together but find middle ground in other less controversial topics and practices, and even cults.

At some point, the secular authorities get involved for their own reasons. Maybe some rulers are pro-"The Old Bones" or anti-, or they want to outlaw necromancy or benefit from it for various political reasons, socio-cultural reasons, economic reasons, military intelligence reasons, etc. Whatever happens, happens. Times change. Official attitudes swing back and forth, while internally the religious debates continue, now informed by and perhaps as counters to, this secular intervention.

Then we end up in modern times, the times of the story. Nobody really believes in gods anymore. They do remember the old gods of the seasons and at the secular festival in winter, there are a lot of traditional puppet shows that have a whole history and life of their own. The puppets are called "the old bones" and nobody really remembers why. Osteopaths have the puppets and symbols relating to the midwinter festival on their certificates and college heraldry and nobody really remembers why, but the information is there to look up and is a fun thing to know for trivia nights.

And necromancy... is a controversial branch of science, divorced from its original religious significance for many but not for all, and more integrated as an art or practice in the public consciousness (positively or negatively depending on perspective and propaganda and actual usage).

And now, you have a ton of depth and meat to it without having to flesh out the arguments and debates themselves unless that is plot relevant.

There is a lot you can do with this society now, and by tweaking one thing you can create completely different societies and ideologies. The depth is now there to set your story at any point during this history and to develop numerous ideas. So much stuff can happen.

With the singular event version, and a static fact of a necromancy cult in the frozen wastes, things are much more limited and linear, with less depth to play with.

Also remember that your characters will not be expected to know everything about your world unless they are experts in religion and/or history, and also the 2 subjects are not mutually inclusive so a historian is not an expert theologian and vice versa. How much the average person on the street knows depends on levels of formal education, accessible knowledge beyond formal education, which may include religious instruction and folklore, and propaganda. But it means you can build in some subtle things - like the puppet symbols on the door of an osteopath or bone doctor - that never need to be explained, but have a logical in-world explanation below the surface.

Try taking a static idea and work it into a system and see where it leads!

#writeblr #worldbuilding #fantasy religion #writers on tumblr #writing community #writing tips #world building #writing fantasy #fantasy #fantasy writing

[fairydares]

loook i get why the idea of riding the "anti/pro" fandom disk horse makes people gag a little in their mouth and try to opt out entirely, but here's why i went from feeling exactly the same way to taking a firm profiction stance. I've been meaning to make this post for a while.

~10 years ago, I posted a fic for the first time and it got its own harassment campaign. The fic wasn't even sexual, and wasn't going to be (it remains incomplete). It was accurately rated T on fanfiction.net. Anyone in the Fairy Tail fandom will understand this: I literally got harassed for writing a "Lucy leaves the guild" fic💀.

After many nice comments, someone left a pretty nasty one. Hurt, I messaged them back. They acted super attacked that I'd responded (lmao) and after we argued, threatened to "rip my shitty story apart in the comments section" if I responded again. I told them "go ahead lol."

They went ahead.

Now know that it was a relatively small harassment campaign, but at the time, it was devastating. Right around then, I wound up in the hospital. After I got out, I went to excitedly check my fic, and found several reviews saying things I wouldn't repeat to my worst enemy. I was suicide-baited more than once, told "thank fuck you finally abandoned this shitty story, dumb cunt," stuff like that.

There were several accounts involved, and I can't say for sure, but I suspect at least a couple different people were involved, though probably at least half of it was one person.

All the other comments were screeching about how I hadn't updated, mostly. "NO UPDAAATEE WHY DOES THIS ALWAYS HAPPENS TO MEEEE??!!!" was one that stood out after I'd been miserable in a hospital for an extended period of time.

Idk what people think is going on when FT fic authors write this trope, and frankly I don't give a fuck. Because while I was partly writing the story out of some young, cringe feminist rage, I also did genuinely have a real story I was compelled to tell. I was inspired by another, popular fic I loved which used the trope to talk about how trying to shoulder our burdens alone really just hurts both ourselves and everyone who cares about us.

My own story was ultimately going to have similar themes, with more focus on strength, what it means, and in what contexts earning and having it actually matters. In retrospect, no wonder I wound up in hot water, because at the time "Lucy vs. Strength vs. Misogyny" was the FT fandom's Designated Nonsensically Activist Debate™. But that's partly why i wanted to write about it; engaging with the fandom had gotten me thinking about it 🤷‍♂️

Not too long after that, FFNet oh-so-benevolently granted us the ability to delete comments from our own stories (they never took my reports seriously at all, afaik). I deleted all or most of the harassers' comments (may still be a one or two up, and i'm fairly sure there's a couple comments defending my fic from the harassment) without saving screenshots, which I really regret now. I was just so mortified and full of self-loathing about the whole thing that i wanted to forget it completely. Something that had brought me joy at a very lonely, vulnerable period of my life had turned so negative, and i couldn't even tell the people closest to me about it without being made fun of for writing anime fan fiction.

I didn't understand why this happened at the time, but--after a period of trying to forget/bid out of it all with a slight anti lean (a common approach I see people use, and one which I'm not proud of adopting)--I just had to figure out What the Fuck Even Happened There. And I'm telling you, after years of reflecting, wrestling with both sides, and educating myself, that this "status quo of harassment" culture which pervades fandom goes way deeper than you think and comes out of a way darker well than you probably realize. An astonishing amount of this is, quite literally, TERF shit and evangelical shit.

Trying to be in fandom and take a stance of, "Anti/Pro shit? Ew, I'm Not Touching that," is like swimming in a heavily polluted river and being like, "Poison? Cringe. Not me lol."

You might be lucky enough to be in a less-polluted part of the river (AKA a relatively non-toxic fandom, in which case good for you!)...but tbh this rhetoric and peer-signalling will still seep in.

I can't stress enough that pro-fiction, AKA "proship", is the normal, leftist-about-art-and-sex opinion. Pro-ship is against all the horrible things you're against; in fact, pro-ship isn't trivializing real trauma by equating it with fictional trauma, or trying to apply literal evangelical/radfem solutions--which are proven not to prevent or help. Profiction/proship is literally just saying, "Fiction is fiction, reality is reality, and the two don't have a 1:1 relationship. And historically, trying to censor just things we've decided are bad has done nothing but get LGBTQ+ and POCs censored. Therefore, depictions of illegal things shouldn't be censored." That's it. "Proshippers all ship problematic ships," is a brazen lie. Many of them share other fans' disgust for those ships, they just don't believe in censoring fic authors over it.

It is also taking a stand against harassment because--and I hope my own story has helped drive this home--as with all groups who adopt ingroup/outgroup thinking, antis are defined by their tactics, not actual stances on real, serious issues. What happened to me was absolutely a result of anti, "it's okay to 'bully out' anything I just don't like" mindset pervading fandom. In a way, this was the mindset's final form. They didn't even feel the need to cite a reason the trope was "bad" or "wrong"; it annoyed them, and they viewed their own feelings as a valid enough pathway for policing to go right ahead and do so.

In the interest of offering solutions instead of just bitching about problems, I might make a "how to know if you've bought into these types of views"-type post sometime. Also might come back to this and provide some sources/citation.

#cw harassment #tw suicide-baiting #tw hospitalization #posts i actually wrote #fairy tail #nalu #fandom #fandom meta #proship #pro fiction #anti-censorship

[olderthannetfic]

The weird thing about this website is so many people who get really high and mighty about how they’d never stan fictional villains who commit fictional atrocities are the same ones who end up stanning real atrocity committing dictators like Putin a few years later. Like it’s really funny to see blogs that would performatively get angry at someone for being a Snape fan 2 years ago are often now Stalin fandom tankies.

And honestly I was thinking about this and I’m not sure these things are unconnected. Making yourself resistant to radicalization means recognizing how it works and also that it could work on you. And it crucially means recognizing the difference between someone having a fun and engaging personality vs. them having good political goals and policies.

I think people who can recognize that a fictional character is fun as a character to watch because they’re charismatic, silly, hot, etc. but also recognize that they did horrible things is thus going to be similarly better equipped to do that same calculus with real people.

Whereas a lot of “antis” have this idea that they’re inherently morally superior and even just learning *about* bad things will somehow taint that. And also they don’t have to worry because they’re too moral to ever be tempted anyway.

The easiest way to be a target for this stuff is to decide it’ll just never happen to you, so you refuse to even consider the possibility as it is happening. And there are clearly a lot of people being radicalized now by playing into their perception of themselves as more progressive and virtuous than anyone else.

(But seriously this isn’t just a hypothetical, a whole bunch of the current big Tumblr tankies like h3ritageosts have long histories of being sanctimonious moralists toward fandoms that stan the wrong characters or media or whatever. And now they’re stanning the Kim family and Putin and creating “Zionist blocklists” that are largely *anti*-Zionist/pro-Palestine bloggers who just happen to also be Jewish, and calling them “genocide apologists” while engaging in actual apologia themselves for other genocides.

Like, whatever stanning fictional villains is doing to me, at least it’s not that.)

--

[onesidedradiostatic]

Hear me out.

I've been thinking about this post : https://www.tumblr.com/onesidedradiostatic/745384039518814208/extremely-cursed-thought?source=share

And like, what if Alastor paid someone to make a mod of it where he's the horse (deer version)?

Like, he knows of Vox's obsession...so obviously he'd use it to his advantage right?

So is it so far fetched of him to have someone make a mod with a spyware that hacks the phone's camera while the game's playing?

Because there's no way Vox wouldn't play the mod, and that would make for some sweet sweet blackmail that Alastor could use to his benefit.

And if the person he pays also manages to make it so Vox's the only one with access to that mod Alastor would only benefit from it since nobody else could fantasize over his Mars Attack Deer edition body.

Hell, maybe it could be a bonding experience organised by Charlie to make up for Lucifer's commissions and Nifty's fanfics.

Lucifer makes the artwork, Nifty changes the plot to her (and Vox's) liking and Alastor supervises (and pukes).

(link in ask)

HELP I mean. I feel like it wouldn't be something alastor would initiate on his own, not because he wouldn't take advantage of vox, but because spyware is more modern technology and I'm not sure if he'd stoop to using modern technology just for this. and also, would he even know what spyware is? and aside from the modern tech, he'd have to agree to letting himself be....... presented in such a manner. not even necessarily the horse-deer thing I mean I'm sure he's presented himself in much more horrifying ways, but the fact that it's a DATING sim. like weigh the pros and cons, entertainment from seeing vox get trampled vs a bunch of things he fucking hates.

oh yeah I think alastor knows about vox's obsession but he doesn't know the romantic/sexual aspect of it at ALL.

but sure, let's take this as one of the hotel's plans post-finding-out about it however they do (as I've said in previous posts, whether it be through alastor recounting the Business Proposal(TM) to mock vox and the hotel being like "OOOOHHHHHhhhhHHHhhhHHh yeah alastor I think you may have misinterpreted that just a TINY bit" or finding out vox has been commissioning lucifer to make zesty art of him), I think it'd be more likely if it was like a hotel initiated plan as opposed to an alastor initiated one cause of the above factors LMAO. so yeah sure "bonding experience organised by Charlie to make up for Lucifer's commissions and Nifty's fanfics"

lucifer and niffty don't only contribute art and writing, they contribute the money going into the spyware development (unless anyone in the hotel actually has enough tech knowledge to develop one. and I was about to search up how to code spyware just for this but I was worried I may end up on a list). and yes alastor pukes.

realistically. I do think vox's digital security is strong enough for him to counter spyware/digital attacks (which is why I think an actual physical distraction for vox while the hotel does whatever is more effective) but I think it'd be funny if he like got so distracted by the surprisingly high quality mod that he didn't realise his system's anti viruses going off until the hotel got a good chunk of him enjoying the game more than he should've (and he gets made fun of for it by velvette forever but also gets scolded by her for not noticing the spyware sooner and he's lucky he didn't leak too much essential vee stuff during it) and he then swiftly removes the spyware from the code and just keeps the mod so he can keep playing it because for some reason the hotel crew got like really into its development and it's actually a very high quality fully-functional mod, and he lets no one find out that he kept it (or at least attempts to).

#ask #osrs.txt #radiostatic #staticradio #onewaybroadcast #hazbin vox #hazbin hotel vox #vox #hazbin alastor #hazbin hotel alastor #alastor #lucifer morningstar #hazbin lucifer #hazbin niffty #hazbin hotel niffty #niffty #hazbin velvette #hazbin hotel velvette #velvette #lucifer's commissions saga #sure. sure.