#btsv prediction | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

the-cat-and-the-birdie · 7 months

Text

Another case for Mild!Miguel:

HOBIE is the reason I think Mild!Miguel exists. Hear me Out:

Inversions & Parallels in ATSV

[A post where I talk about how the existence of Hobie's arc backs up and/or proves my Mild Miguel theory.

MEDIUM length, I talk about plot connections and writing stuff as well as my predictions for Miguel in BTSV.]

Subversions: Character Building in ATSV

One thing that sets ATSV apart from a lot of other Superhero movies is that it's centered around not 'heroing', but the characters and the relationships they hold.

Each character in ATSV has a Subversion in their arc.

Subversions being the defying of the audience's expectations pre-conceived notion of a character. Almost every character we see experiences a conflict with how we first understand them.

Gwen goes from being closeted and closed off both emotionally and literally in terms of her Spider-identity. She starts the movie pushing away her close friends, and ends her arc embracing her dad.

With Jess, she is introduced as a family woman, who talks about her husband and child openly. When in reality, she's not a familial or a parental figure in the slightest.

Pavitr is introduced as a confident guy, who can effortlessly save everybody and still have time for school, a relationship, and a collection of streetdogs. But in reality, he's still just a kid who hasn't taken an L yet. He needs help, panics and sucks at hiding his secret identity.

Peter is shown as a happy comfortable new father who has perfected the art of being a full time dad and changing avocado poop pampers. But later, we see he's just a guy, still figuring this whole dad thing out.

With Rio & Jeff, they start the movie literally grounding Miles, and by the end, they're forced to trust him out there in the big world.

Even Miles experiences this, as he goes from a kid who wants to be apart of something bigger - before realizing that he only needs himself.

The writers of ATSV use these subversion in order to make three dimensional characters.

And Hobie Brown, may be the best example of this. The Writers preying on our pre-conceived notions of punk, and love triangles to give us a vision of Hobie before he even appears on screen.

In the film Hobie, is the only subversion that is purposeful. He's the only one doing this behavior on conscious effort.

Hobie is an outlier. His subversion is intentional - and doing this gives him enough power to exercise a lot of influence over the plot going forward.

Hobie Brown is the king of Subversion.

But who doesn't have a Subversion? Miguel.

But let's hold that thought for a second.

Parallels: Relationship Building in ATSV

All of the subversions are what cause conflict in plot. And in ATSV, ever character and their conflict, as an a equal reflection of their situation - A Parallel.

And the same way each character experiences a subversion, that leads to conflict -

Each Conflict has a Parallel situation that mirrors theirs.

And these parallels can help us predict the story.

Gwen & Miles Parallel each other:

Miles' family is desperate to be apart of his life, while Gwen's family - her father, openly rejects her. And in the end: Miles ends up as far away from his parents as possible, around the same time Gwen returns to her fathers arms.

Jess & Peter Parallel each other:

Jess begins the story with a hands-off mentoring approach - while Peter's is more emotionally driven. And in the end: Jess begins questioning her callousness towards Gwen, meanwhile Peter questions if his approach and babying of Miles is actually what he needs.

Rio & Jeff Parallel each other:

Rio starting the film being more stern on Miles - the last one in the guidance consolers office and the one to remind him of the cake. Meanwhile, Miles' dad is the one trying to cut Miles some slack. And in the end: Rio is the more open one - she's the one who lets Miles go with Gwen, and the one who hears when out at the end. Meanwhile Miles' dad is the opposite - ready to jump at the accusation of drugs. (lmao)

Hell, even characters that we see on screen for less than ten minutes could be considered parallels:

Pavitr & Margo Parallel each other:

Pavitr is inexperienced, but loving life. He's out in the field enjoying himself and his universe. While Margo is more experienced. She works the Go-Home Machine. But unlike Pavitr, she's not out in the field, and she doesn't enjoy her universe. By the end of their arcs: Pavitr is humbled and realizes there's some dark moments that come with Spider-man, and some close calls. While Margo regains her motivation and spark through Miles, heading out in the field again.

Every character has a subversion - Ever subversion causes conflict - and every conflict leads to a parallel. And through that, the story is made.

Just one problem:

Hobie doesn't have a Parallel. Neither does Miguel.

Why does Hobie - the only one who purposely uses subversion - not have a parallel?

If Hobie is 'The guy playing a pretentious fake punk based on people's preconceived notions of his ideology and appearance, who uses it to his advantage only when he wants to, and uses it for good - that results in a growth in community'

Where is 'The guy playing a pretentious authority figure based on people's preconceived notions of his ideology and appearance, who uses it to his advantage only when he wants to, and uses it for evil that results in a loss of community.'

Where is that guy? Can you find him?

Oh, damn it's Miguel.

Story Structure in ATSV:

If we look at the story structure of ATSV not only do we see that there's subversions and parallels, but we see a hole in the story.

With each character going on an arc the completely subverts audiences expectations - Why doesn't Miguel? (he does.)

And with each subversion, in Hobie's case, if everyone has an reflection of themselves and their situation that tie them into the story by common themes - Why doesn't Hobie? (he does.)

Why is Hobie the face of 'fake rebel that leads to great purposeful action' - and there's no 'fake leader than leads to horrible un-purposeful action'? (there is)

Did the Writers just leave this hole, and not tie Miguel and Hobie's arc in the same way as everyone elses?

No. There is a connection there.

Hobie is Miguel's reflection. Miguel is his parallel. Miguel's subversion is that he's not mean. He's putting on a persona.

Their parallel is - that they're both putting on an act. One for rebellion, one for order.

The difference is - Hobie enjoys his act, he uses it for good, and good things come of it. When he drops his mask as the 'fake punk', he does it out of the urge to empower himself.

Hence why he demasks himself in the comics.

And on Miguel's hand - He doesn't enjoy his act, he uses it for bad, and bad things come of it. When Miguel drops his mask and tells Miles two days, that is his mask dropping. It happens not out of empowerment, but vulnerability.

The whole scene in the lair is a purposeful ACT. That's why when he looks at Hobie (ironically, his parallel) he is able to turn it off immediately. Within seconds.

Whereas Hobie drops his mask in times of trust or action and rebellion - Miguel drops his in times of apathy or vulnerability - aka HIM SHOWING MILES GAB'S DEATH.

Miguel's conversation with Miles here - is the only time we see him not putting on the 'evil, angry, grumpy boss' mask.

He's vulnerable. This is Miguel unmasked. MILD MIGUEL.

While they were walking - Hobie takes his 'fake punk' mask off to be candid with Miles. He speaks honestly and offers empathy - and that is the GOOD inciting incident for Miles' rebellion.

Miguel is the parallel.

He purposely strips his 'fake mean boss' mask off in order to be candid with Miles. He speaks honestly and offers empathy - by telling him how long his father had to live (something he didn't have to do). And that empathy that Miguel gives is the BAD inciting incident for Miles' rebellion.

And when Miles is faced with the parallel of both Hobie and Miguel in rapid succession - it's enough to spawn him to escape.

Hobie and Miguel are opposing but mirrored forces on Miles.

Every character has a subversion. Every subversion causes conflict. Every conflict causes a parallel that spans action.

If Miguel doesn't have a subversion - and Hobie doesn't have a parallel, then how can those conflicts meet? Why this gap in the writing.

If Hobie does have a parallel, the only one left is Miguel.

But, if we're to believe that Hobie does have a parallel, and Miguel is that parallel - then naturally, they're mirrors of each other - and just like Hobie is - Miguel is putting on an act too.

And because the strongest representation of Miguel we see is anger, we know the anger is a mask for something else; aka MILD!MIGUEL

Which is what we see at the climax scene, the real Miguel.

Miguel and Hobie reveal their true colors at the same time, because they're parallels.

Hobie chuckles - the next shot - Miguel snaps.

It's meant to show in that moment in those two shots, these two characters are at their emotional peak. A battle between the two of them - convincing Miles - that Miguel doesn't even know about.

Hobie wins in this moment, Miguel loses, and we see them completely demasked, come to find out - we were wrong, Hobie the one in control and calm - and Miguel is not, he's grasping for control in anyway possible and it's literally slipping from his hands.

There stories are linked, and they barely share any lines at all.

Mild!Miguel exists because Anarchist!Hobie exists.

And all of this is why I think the following:

My predictions for BTSV:

Looking at Hobie's arc:

Fake Persona - Persuasive Set-Up (Talk with Miles) - Inciting Incident around Miles that leads to action (Miles breaks out, Hobie leaves to give Gwen the watch) - Self evaluation and commitment to the cause (joining the gang)

I think Miguel's is gonna follow the same thing

Fake Persona - Persuasive Set Up (This is Everything Speech) - Inciting Incident around Miles (Miles breaks out, Miguel snaps) - Self evaluation and commitment to the cause

Miguel re-evaluates himself and changes sides, turning the Societies resources on Spot.

Based on the subversions, parallels and plot arcs we see in ATSV, my most honest guess is:

Miguel is gonna redeem himself by choice very early into the film.

You know how the first half of ATSV is writen so when you rewatch it again, you'll see the complexities of Hobie's character?

I think the whole movie is written that way. So when you rewatch it AFTER Beyond the Spider-Verse, you can see the complexities of Miguel's character as well.

______________________________ THERE THATS WHY I THINK MILD MIGUEL EXISTS BESIDES EVERYTHING ELSE AND ALL THE VISUAL QUES AND STUFF. THIS IS THE MAIN REASON.

THAT'S WHAT I MEANT I'm so relieved to finally make sense of it. GOSSSSHHH

If you read this far, thank you for your time and entertaining me I'm SO SERIOUS THANK YOU

Please let me know what you think I'm DYING to know

Anyway closing RANT BELOW

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Warning: I go Miguel Mode below]

Thats why this WHOLE TIME I've been like he's RIGHT THERE HJSGDGKDS Cause like -- the story calls for it. if hes not faking why does he have that platform???? Why doesn't Hobie have a paralllel?? Like why is Hobie just this random ass OP character randomly dropped in for funsies - he isn't he's there to reflect Miguel's fake power. Hobie hides his true power the way Miguel hides his powerlessness AHHHHH

THATS WHAT IVE BEEN TRYING TO PUT IN WORDS!! THAT LIKE...I WAS WATCHING THE MOVIE *deep breath* I FEEL SO RELIEVED.

I was watching the movie and feeling like somethings missing in the story - that there's a whole connection that's MISSING There's SOMETHING we're not getting - there's something there. Something that can tells us SO much about the next movie

and seeing peoples interpretations of Miguel made me be like no.... he cant be the only 3 dimensional one. Everyone is the OPPOSITE of what we think they are. Everyone.

And everyone has a parallel. And this is the connection that is missing.

tTHIS IS WHAT I MEANT HOLY FUCK I FINALLY FIGURED OUT HOW TO SAY IT.

When I say 'He's in the room with us, he's standing right there' - I mean 'His existence as a character is what completes the plot. Mild!Miguel HAS to be there logically speaking'

DO YOU GET WHAT I MEAN LIKE MILD MIGUEL AND MIGUELS ACT AS THE LEADER IS CENTRAL TO THIS MOVIE AND THE NEXT.

MILD MIGUEL IS GONNA BE A HUGE PART OF THE NEXT MOVIE

ahhhhhhhhhhHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

Anyway if you're still here after THAT Hello hi I love you - Please tell me your thoughts and if you think it makes sense!

Here's Hobie for your travels!

Bye.

#no proofread #just vibes #spiderman #atsv #spider man #marvel #across the spiderverse #hobie brown #spider punk #spiderpunk #miguel o'hara #miguel ohara #spiderman 2099 #gwen Stacy #Miles morales #across the spider verse #atsv analysis #btsv

261 notes · View notes

cucumberteapot · 11 months

Text

Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse - Afterthoughts

On Friday evening, I bought a ticket for ATSV and it wasn't until the remaining five minutes of the film did I hear gasps and squeals among the audience. Generally, theaters in my country are quiet during screening. It's only on rare occasions did I bare witness to my theater reacting in real-time to something that encapsulates the film and what it could mean for the characters in the future.

Warning!! Please watch the film before reading. This post will go into some heavy spoilers about the finale and some predictions for BTSV!!

It's truly astonishing how talented the crew for ATSV was to convey so much subtle information about Earth-42 Aaron Davis and Prowler!Miles with only five minutes left of runtime. However this analysis is around 1000 words long and I'd like to keep it as readable as possible. From the view of Earth-42's skyscrapers, it's clear this different New York has been overrun by the Sinister Six and we can theorise they'll be the primary antagonists of the next installment. However, until we get more information on them in the lead up to March 2024, I'd like to focus on our two new antagonists and not only their dynamic with Spider!Miles but with also each other.

If Spider!Miles takes after Aaron as Jefferson implies in this film and (honestly) the entirety of ITSV reinforces, then Miles G takes after his father. Or did. Which if we take the brief two minutes we meet him, this kind of tracks. Miles seems to have ITSV's Jefferson's no-nonsense attitude that's been informed by the death of his dad and Aaron's career. It would make sense if Prowler!Miles was more similar to Miles prior to his dad dying before being corrupted by Aaron's influence and the absence of a Spider-Man, where in Aaron's case he was enabled by Jefferson's death to go full villain-mode. When watching ITSV again and comparing to ATSV, it's so wild to see how different Earth 42-Aaron is not only with Spider!Miles but with Prowler!Miles.

In Earth-1610, he wanted to separate Miles from his life as the Prowler to protect him all the while serving as his laid-back, artistic uncle, but here the front is entirely for Rio. It's why when Spider!Miles hugs him, he's not caught off-guard because it's such an intense reaction from what should just be another day coming home from "work". It's because he's not his Miles. Spider!Miles has a lot of love for the people in his life and what he enjoys, whether it's his art, music and surrounding himself with friends and family although its hard. We see Prowler!Miles' room in Spider!Miles' conversation with 42-Rio and all the posters, action figures and journals are replaced with milk crates, a few books and a speed bag. Whoever this other Miles is has fully adopted the identity of the Prowler to the point where "Miles Morales" is the alter-ego - "I'm Miles Morales. But you... You can call me The Prowler."

But now we know who this Prowler!Miles is - What does he want?

Pull a Kingpin and find another dimension to bring back his dad.

Intercept Spider!Miles' dimension and take his place there.

Use Spider!Miles as a bargaining chip for the Sinister Six.

Or just straight up kill Miles Morales. Because why not?

Spider!Miles doesn't tell Aaron his uncle died in his dimension. He says, "I have an Uncle Aaron, too. I had one." The use of "had" is purposeful here because the writers are making a point of not revealing to Aaron (or Prowler!Miles who is listening in all this time) that his counterpart is dead because working as a villain got him killed. If Prowler!Miles doesn't respond to the knowledge of his father existing still alive and well in another dimension, then how would he reaction to knowing his mentor and uncle is dead there, too?

When Spider!Miles reveals his Aaron was the Prowler, we see 42-Aaron's eyes sink in the reflection. It's minor but it delivers so much characterisation as to what kind of person this Aaron is and his relationship to Prowler!Miles. For all of Aaron's faults in ITSV, he always assumed responsibility by concealing the truth from Miles and in his final moments, pulls Miles mask back over to conceal his truth from Kingpin. While this Aaron is far more terrifying, he's trying so hard to hide his own cowardice by letting his nephew take on the mantle of Prowler instead. It's why he smashes the punching bag near Miles' head when he says, "I know you don't want to be the Prowler."

Because, yeah. He doesn't.

And it's why he chuckles sardonically when Miles tells him he could be a "good guy"... because it's not about that.

This entire movie has never been about being a "good guy".

Miles hides the truth about being Spiderman from his parents when it's clearly harming his relationship with them. Gwen and Peter hide the truth from Miles about being an anomaly. Miguel is a hypocrite and attacks Miles out of self-projection and Jess just goes along with it. As for the other Spider-people, they also just follow Miguel's orders except for Hobie and Margo who are the only ones to help Miles escape Nueva York. Both characters take responsibility not by allowing Miles as an anomaly to cause havoc and destroy dimensions, but by identifying that Miguel has neglected his own responsibilities by acting as the aggressor in this situation and trying to control and exclude Miles' identity as a Spider-Man.

Before Gwen is forcefully returned to her own dimension, she shoots back at Miguel's principles, "We are supposed to be the good guys." and it makes him pause for a moment before repeating he and the Spider-people are just to convince himself they are doing the right thing.

By the end of ATSV, Gwen reconciles with her father about being Spider-Woman and collects allies in their search for Miles. While Miles, who has reclaimed his sense of identity and accepts both halves of who he is, unflinchingly stares down this shadow of himself that is equally self-assured in his own responsibility as Prowler but far more dangerous than any antagonist he's encountered.

It should be obvious by this point but this is why the phrase, "With great power comes great responsibility", is the thematic core of every Spider-Man film. It was throughout ITSV and ATSV and now waiting less than a year for BTSV in 2024, this theme of responsibility will resonate with every single character as they enter the third act of this trilogy. And whether it's living their authentic truth with the people they love and love them, or about owning up to their mistakes and choosing to do better...

I, for one, can't wait to watch.

#spider man #across the spiderverse #satsv #atsv #miles morales #gwen stacy #aaron davis #miguel o'hara #jessica drew #hobie brown #pavitr prabhakar #spiderbyte #margo kess #atsv spoilers #spiderman across the spiderverse

235 notes · View notes

aloevhello · 5 months

Text

I like to think that at the end of BTSV, Miguel returns back to his apartment on Earth-928. However, I predict that this scene would be an inverse of the ITSV scene where MJ opens her door and sees Peter B looking to mend their relationship. In this case, Miguel gets to be the one opening his apartment door to see his loved ones, Gabriel and Xina (his MJ), looking to mend their relationship with him.

At the end of Spiderman 2099’s 90’s run, Gabriel and Xina left Miguel, making him feel like he has no one to go back to. But with Gabriel and Xina returning, Miguel sees that he has people who love him and that their bonds are everlasting. Additionally, with Peter B and MJ’s reconciliation leading to them to have Mayday immediately after, this hypothetical scene could foreshadow that Miguel’s alternate universe with Gabriella could become his reality in his home dimension.

#get this guy a family and a home plssss #miguel o'hara #xina kwan #gabriel o'hara #gabriella o'hara #gabriella o’hara #peter b parker #mj watson #mayday parker #mary jane watson #xinamiguel #spiderman 2099 #into the spiderverse #across the spiderverse #beyond the spiderverse #spiderverse

121 notes · View notes

froustiful · 9 months

Text

my own BTSV predictions bingo (inspo from @shizukateal )

Honestly most of them are just things i hope will happen in btsv

Based on productions team mentioning that there will be a bigger villain than spot + miguel not fighting miles MOST of the time in btsv

#across the spiderverse #spider man: across the spider verse #miguel spiderverse #atsv #gwen stacy #atsv spot #the spot #miles morales #peter b parker #hobie spiderverse #rio morales #gwenom #peni parker #ganke lee

84 notes · View notes

hobiebrownismygod · 6 months

Note

i have not yet seen a single discussion that between the start of the chase for Miles and the time Gwen returned to her dimension, no more than an hour passed and during THIS time Hobie managed to assemble a fully functioning analogue of the watch and deliver it to Gwen’s dimension, although I don’t think that the device for moving through the universe is simple technology. has he been working on this project for a long time? HOW LONG ago? do you have any thoughts on this?

(and sorry for my bad English! /g )

Like I said in my previous post on Hobie’s canon event and the way the watch works into it (here) I think he’d been working on that watch and his plan for a long time prior to ATSV for the following reasons.

He only stole a few parts in the movie

We only see Hobie stealing parts for the watch in the movie, twice. Once when he’s talking to Miles, which most of us noticed, and one more obscure time in the scene where Jess is first talking to Ben Reilly. If you watch Hobie closely you can see him grabbing a part from a passing Spider-person during Jess’s line, “we actually need you here right now for some reason”.

There’s no way he built that entire watch in an hour with just a few parts. There needs to be more than two or three parts to it, and he definitely didn’t decide to steal immediately after meeting Miles. He had a plan.

Nobody called him in.

We never see Jess or Lyla tell Gwen that Hobie’s arriving to help in Mumbattan. And Hobie probably wasn’t already in Mumbattan, because Pavitr looked surprised to see him as well.

Miguel also seemed angry with Hobie when he saw him, saying “I can’t with you right now”, but Hobie never gave him a reason to be mad. All Hobie did was arrive in Mumbattan, help them fight Spot and come with Gwen and Miles to the Spider Society. He didn’t mess with any canons, so why was Miguel mad at him?

He wasn’t supposed to be there.

I think that Hobie was off the grid prior to the events of ATSV but somehow, found out Gwen was in trouble and portaled to Mumbattan to help her. I think the reason Miguel was mad at him was because he hadn’t been showing up, he’d turned off his location (which I also talked about in my other post) and because he randomly appeared in Mumbattan when he wasn’t supposed to be there.

Project Bootleg

Hobie had a name for this plan. On the watch he gave to Gwen, he wrote the name Project Bootleg on it. I think he had made this plan before he went to Mumbattan and that laying the groundwork for Miles to escape, stealing extra parts for the watch, and formally leaving the Society was all part of this plan.

So to answer your questions:

Yes I believe he's been working on this project for a while.

Timeframe is probably no more than a few weeks, considering the fact that Miguel and Jess didn't seem too surprised to see him and Gwen hadn't mentioned anything about his absence.

He probably built the watch in a week, taking a little bit longer to actually steal the parts, considering that he's canonically an intellectual genius. It being a fairly complicated design wouldn't stray him.

104 notes · View notes

gaasublarb · 3 months

Text

Btsv prediction

The Spot is gonna be converted to protagonist about half way through and is gonna be the key to defeating Miguel and his bootlicking spiders

#btsv #atsv #atsv the spot #btsv predictions #my posts

3 notes · View notes

dimensionzero · 11 months

Text

predictions for btsv:

gwen's spider-crew and miles won't meet up immediately (cause they gotta find him first)

relatedly, miles will spend a decent chunk of the movie in earth-42

miles-42 is gonna end up as part of the gang. "evil counterpart" my ass he's still MILES

we're gonna see hobie's home dimension

margo gets an introduction/backstory montage at some point

mayday somehow saves the day through toddler shenanigans

the return of RIPeter in some way shape or form, miguel mentioned that he wasn't 'supposed' to die and that makes me suspicious

miguel lied about his backstory, I don't know how or why but I feel it in my bones

jessica or ben is going to defect and join miles' side. my bet's on jessica

we're gonna split the party at some point because miles, gwen, peter b & mayday, noir, ham, peni, pavitr, hobie, and margo (+ possibly miles-42) is a lot of characters to juggle

miles is indeed going to face his own "save my loved one or save the world" moment and in true spider-man fashion, he'll choose the world

...but it won't matter because he inspired his friends to do the right thing instead of following canon rules, so either gwen (for co-protagonist reasons), pavitr (for poetic symmetry reasons), or hobie (for anarchist reasons) will end up saving his loved one for him

#ive literally never been so sure about anything as i am about the last 2 points #across the spiderverse #across the spiderverse spoilers

141 notes · View notes

northernnoir · 4 months

Text

My prediction for BTSV

ao3

#ghostflower #gwen x miles #miles x gwen #gwiles

35 notes · View notes

belleishavingamentalbreakdown · 2 months

Text

Spiderman ATSV Predictions

YALL PLEASE I NEED EVERYONES OPINION ON THIS BIG BRAIN MOMENT I JUST HADDDDDD. PLEASE SEND THIS TO UR FRIENDS AND GET IT AROUND I NEED TO DISCUSS THIS PREDICTION THAT LITERALLY FLEW INTO MY BRAIN IDK IF ANYONE HAS THOUGHT OF THIS ALREADY SO LMKKKK!!!!!!!

OKAY SO- imma calm down now.

My idea was basically that Captain Morales won't die nor need to die in BTSV BECAUSE (Im assuming here) the previous Peter Parker has had the canon events occur to him ALREADY. THIS MEANS IF MILES CHOOSES TO STRAY FROM THE CANON, THEN EARTH 1610 WON'T EXPERIENCE COMPLETE DESTRUCTION! BECAUSE THE CANON EVENTS OF A POLICE CAPTAIN CLOSE TO SPIDER-MAN DIES HAS ALREADY OCCURRED!!!

Also if there is no Spider-Man on Earth 42, how come this universe hasn't collapsed (if that makes sense) because the canon events can't be fulfilled, BUILDING ON TO THIS POINT. Considering that Earth-42 hasn't combusted yet, DOES THIS MEAN A SPIDER-PERSON COULD POSSIBLY BE PRESENT OR BE BITTEN?!?! Also if I'm missing something or am wrong please let me know! <333

Also btw if anyone wants to be mutuals lmk and i can give u my discord :D because i have no one to speak about ATSV with :/ ANYHOW GIVE ME UR OPINIONS <3333

37 notes · View notes

sapphirerubydragon · 4 months

Text

I can't do that fancy thing you guys do with the illustrative images but.. how far do you think the parallelism will go in terms of Peter tied to the punching bag and Miles tied to the punching bag?

1. Miles tries to appear threatening to Peter at first with his "questions". Likewise, I think Miles 42 is only menacing in appearance but he has goodwill. We've already established that he's a vigilante. He punches the bag but I don't think that he will maul Miles unless he thinks it's absolutely necessary.

2. Miles comes to the understanding that Peter is a variant of his universe's Peter and shows him compassion. I think that Miles 42 will eventually come around to Miles and feel empathy towards his cause.

3. I expect that Miles, like Peter, will escape his bonds after all Peter did say "trust me kid this'll make you a better Spiderman". Miles will probably have the upper hand at least for a moment because no one anticipates that he will get free.

4. I've been wondering if Miles will be jaded like Peter is because of all he's been through. Both Miles experience loss and trauma and that will definitely be a point of connection. I expect that they'll work together and find a mutual point of interests so that they can have a truce. They have to be like brothers, I will scream if they're not and I hope they do lots of quibbling too.

5. Miles will be focused on getting home and he'll probably be so tunnel visioned he may not accept help at first, like Peter did.

The thing is, Peter does so much commentary in ITSV on canon - for example he can predict Olivia and King Pin's villainous dialogue because it's always the same, and there's always a bypass key, goober, override key.

The creators have clearly been playing with the idea of canon getting old for quite some time.

And we'd think we know the rest. But Gwen's made it very clear... that we don't. So I don't know if we will get much more in terms of rehashing of ITSV Peter through BTSV Miles.

Either way I'm excited to see the new bonds formed and which old bonds will be redeemed.

The thing I missed most in ATSV was the dynamic between Miles and Peter. It's always been one of my favourite things about ITSV and it makes the betrayal in ATSV all the more heartbreaking for me.

You know, when Miles is in trouble in ITSV while Olivia chases him he yells Peter! And on the train when threatened by Miguel he yells Peter's name again and doesn't get the guidance and protection he needs.

Whew. There are so many, many threads to tie up in BTSV!! I'm psyched about the new stuff but I'm also curious about the callbacks and parallels they'll use for nostalgia and problem solving.

#miles morales #across the spiderverse #peter parker #spiderman #into the spider verse #miles 42 #beyond the spiderverse #ghostflower

47 notes · View notes

unfortunately-obsessed · 5 months

Text

Canon Events, The Multiverse and Miles Morales

Most theories about Canon Events, discourse about the ATSV's plot holes and BTSV prediction started pissing me off. Decided to summarize ATSV myself. Let's start with the following image:

Lol

What are Canon Events?

The basic.

MILES: And these nodes, where the lines converge?

MIGUEL: They are The Canon. Chapters that are a part of every spider’s story, every time.

– ATSV Script. MULTIVERSAL MAP SCENE.

Canon events are pivotal moments – milestones in their storyline– that change the course of the rest of narrative in a Spider-Man's life. The events end up shaping a series of fundamental elements including personality traits, insecurities, career prospects and more. It includes constants origin stories, significant victories, losses, and character-defining moments that contribute to the hero's identity.

Or, A moment or action that must happen to certain Spider-Men – otherwise their universe risks being destroyed.

The Canon Events connect every Spider-Person's lives together, in what Miguel name Web of Life and Destiny. It's a constant through the Multiverse.

Canon Events are real, Event ASM90 makes it clear: a police captain close to Spider-Man dies saving a kid from falling rubble during a battle with an arch-nemesis...

But Canon Event seems to be fairly flexible. Uncle Ben dies in Peter’s arms; Peter dies in Gwen’s arms; Miles loses Uncle Aaron. Every Spider-Person loses somebody they love, and this somebody can be adapted to the Spider-Person's own story – in other words, The Canon might not exactly be a prewritten rule but a guideline.

Something that need to be cleared: Miguel did study the Multiverse. It's not clear if it was after Gabriella's universe collapse or not, but he studied it to the point of being able to categorize and cross-reference the events. So far he is not wrong, much less lying. It is clear that Canon Events are a thing that exist.

Does Canon Events equal Fixed Points?

( Disclaimer: It's been years since I watch anything from the MCU. So what I'm about to say is from what I gathered from multiple wiki pages and an overview of comics. Funnily enough, the last thing I watched from the MCU was Spider-Man: No Way Home. Edit: it's been so long that I forgot the movie's name. It was actually Spider Man: Far Away From Home).

Fixed points are events in the timeline that are deemed unchangeable. Attempting to alter these points would have severe consequences, potentially destabilizing the multiverse. Fixed points are like anchors, ensuring a degree of stability in the multiversal continuum.

Miguel claims that if a Canon Event are disrupted it'll destabilize the universe up to the point of self-destruction.

Does it mean that ATSV is following the MCU take on the multiverse? Not necessarily.

In the MCU there's this thing called Incursions. Here's a short description:

An Incursion occurs when the boundary between two universes erodes and they collide, destroying one or both entirely.

Several people in the fandom dove into the conclusion that this is what happened to Gabriella's universe; Miguel interacted with it, his different molecule's resonance might have interfered with the syntonic nature of Gabriella's reality, the boundary between the two universes collided and her universe collapsed.

It even could be true, even if it was the rare case where the Incursion killed only Gabriella's universe and somehow Earth-918b – Miguel's universe, where the HQ is located – survived.

But it's not. Incursions are exactly what divert the Sony Animated Universe of the MCU, ironically. Why?

Because if the Incursion was a thing in the ATSV then the Spider-Society wouldn't be able to exist, and they couldn't constantly interact with each other, or interfere in another multiverse (even if it's to hunt down an anomaly).

One could argue that they can interfere because of their Dimensional Device – that stabilizes then enough so they can walk around multiple universes without falling dead from molecular decay.

But if that was what prevented Incursions then Gabriella's universe wouldn't be destroyed at all.

"Maybe it only works because they don't stay a lot of time in another dimensions plus they only go to other universes to deal with anomalies!"

Y'all forgot that Gwen was crashing in Hobie's dimensions? She said that it's been months since she was recruited (months since she reveled her identity to her father and, since then, apparently didn't go back to her dimension). Months, and it wasn't to deal with an anomaly, yet neither her or Hobie's dimension collapsed.

Even if she wasn't in his dimensions constantly and was somewhere else, or did go back to her dimension, don't forget the whole HQ in Earth-918 full of people from other universes – has a gym and a cafeteria, therapy offices, wouldn't be surprised if it had dorms, encouraging the Spider-Heroes to stay there for longer and interact with each other.

Mayday wasn't supposed to exist if Incursions were a thing. She was born because of Miles' influence in Peter B.'s life.

Which means ATSV doesn't have Incursions, at least not the way MCU has it even if the writers want us to see it as the same Multiverse. Ergo, Fixed Points are not necessarily Canon Events.

We know Canon Events exist and are constants through the Multiverse, but we don't know if breaking a Canon Event can cause the death of an universe because the only instance where this happened before our eyes Spot was involved and thus disqualified the data. All we have is Miguel's word for it.

Maybe Canon Events are just a pattern.

But if Canon Events are just a pattern, then why did Gabriella's universe collapse?

Here's two not-mutally-exclusive theories:

When Miguel assumed the place of his variant, the universe saw him as a parasite, someone that should have died but didn't. It self-destructed itself as a form of self-preservation that went wrong – just like we have fever when we where sick. This theory anthropomorphizes the universes, and through I like it, it's not the most probable cause. If that's what happened, then Miguel confused correlation with causation and, possibly, The Canon has nothing to do with Gabriella's universe dying.

Gabriella was supposed to be Spider-Woman. Maybe her father was who she was supposed to lose. He broke The Canon by assuming the place of his variant and this destroyed the natural order of things, resulting on the collapsing of the universe.

Let's go back to the script:

MIGUEL: That’s how the story is supposed to go. Canon events are the connections that bind our lives together. But those connections can be broken. That’s why anomalies are so dangerous...[...]

MIGUEL: You break enough canon, save enough captains, we could lose everything.

Did you notice it? Miguel worries about anomalies not only because they're ordinarily dangerous to innocent people, but they can break the connections – break the canon.

Think with me: The canon is the thing that binds Spider-People together, so wouldn't it make sense that anomalies only show up when a canon event is about to happen, if they're snatched by holes in the multiverse's fabric? Wouldn't it be easier for them to show up at the points where the universes naturally junction? Or somehow it triggers a canon event?

Take Vulture as an example. If Miguel hadn't showed up, were Gwen going to die before her time? Get permanently wounded? Something else? We know that the Canon event was supposed to happen that day because of what Layla says, "The Canon remains intact", indicating it was something that were already being monitored, the model already had a prediction for it.

Coming back to Miguel. He is determined that he broke the Canon, trillions of lives died because of it if you consider the whole universe collapsed, which goes further into other planets, other galaxies. And, if so far he was right about the Canon, wouldn't he be right about this too? Or do you think he – a man that lost his (foster) daughter – wouldn't look into why the whole universe collapsed, why she died in his hands?

There's no way to soften this. Her death is his fault and her blood is in his hands.

He's the founder of Spider-Society, assumed the role as leader. He settled a supporting system through it for mourning Spiders. If he wasn't competent and fundamentally good then a legion of Peter Parkers wouldn't follow his orders, the Spider-Society wasn't going to exist.

Miguel doesn't want anybody else to make the same mistake– this doesn't mean he doesn't make other mistakes. That's why he lashes out at Gwen and why he explains to Miles what will happen to his dad. This was a mistake that he undoubtedly committed. He shouldn't have told Miles what would happen if he wanted utmost trust that the Canon wasn't going to be broke.

He wanted Miles to believe in him.

MIGUEL: You have a choice between saving one person and saving an entire world. Every world.

He wanted Miles to do the right thing. The Trolley Problem with extra lives at risk.

That's why he antagonizes Miles afterwards. Yes, only afterwards.

Miguel knows that he could spare Miles the pain if he listened. He only gets angry and haunts Miles down when he notices Miles won't listen and that the same story will repeat just in front of his eyes.

Miguel knows what will happen if Miles save his dad. Miguel is trying to save people.

But then what will happen to Miles' dad?

Two things:

Gwen already proved that it's possible to circumvent the Canon.

Actually, her dad did. Captain Stacy stopped being a Captain. He resigned from the Police Force. He isn't going to die anymore. You can see her relief when he says this.

The Canon wasn't broken, but it doesn't mean event ASM-90 needs to happen.

But also:

The Exception Proves The Rule.

Under [the scientific version] of the phrase, the word 'proof' is to be understood in its archaic form to mean the word 'test' (this use can be seen in the phrase the proof of the pudding is in the eating).

The example is of a hypothetical critic, Jones, who never writes a favourable review.

So it is surprising when we receive an exception: a favourable review by Jones of a novel by an unknown author. Then it is discovered that the novel is his own, written under a pseudonym. The exception tested ('proved') the rule and found that it needed to be understood a little more precisely - namely, that Jones will never write a favourable review, except of his own work.The previous evaluation of Jones's ill-nature toward others is re-affirmed by discovering the manner in which the exception falls outside the rule.

– The Exception that Proves the Rule

Let's go back Canon's definition: a moment or action that must happen to certain Spider-Men – otherwise their universe risks being destroyed.

So: a Spider-Man's Canon Events are never meant to be broken or the universe will be destroyed.

Miles Morales is an anomaly. "The spider that gave you your powers wasn’t from your dimension! It was never supposed to bite you!"

If we apply that the exception proves the rule: a Spider-Man's Canon Events are never meant to be broken or the universe will be destroyed, except if the Spider-Man himself is an anomaly.

This also proves Miguel's theory of Canon Events further.

Anyway I'm going back to sleep.

#atsv #spider man: across the spider verse #across the spider verse spoilers #across the spiderverse #atsv meta #miles morales #Miguel O'Hara #miguel o’hara #gwen stacy #did i prooferead this? no.#me!rambles #me!theories #me!headcanons #me!meta #me!atsv

26 notes · View notes