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inafever · 9 months

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On how much Aziraphale has learned since season one:

This is about character development. Inside of a story, everything that happens, happens for a reason. It's meant to tell you something, to teach you or the character of your story, something.

So if the story continues and your character repeats the same mistakes again you know that they are bound to be doomed this time, and even worse the audience is going to certainly lose respect for them, cause they have made the same mistake twice, they haven't learned anything, they're gonna do it again another time, they don't deserve a happy ending. (yes I'm talking about good omens here) So you don't do that to a character that matters to you and you respect even the tiniest bit.

A Lot of us here are thinking that this is what has happened to Aziraphale's character at the end of season two, that he has done it again, repeated the same mistake again and has left Crowley to join heaven and it's been because of reasons like wanting to change Crowley (not true, see this post), still believing in heaven's goodness (not true at all), not being on the same page with Crowley (I'm gonna talk about this one especially in this post) and such likes. But these are the things he should've known better about after 6000 years and all the events that we've learnt about especially throughout season two. (It seems to be rather the whole point doesn't it?)

But we all seem to rather believe that he's made that mistake again nonetheless. so what we're doing here is trying to find reasons to justify the mistake and somehow make the reason behind the wrong actions something relatable to ourselves so we can forgive him when the time comes.

In fact I don't believe that he's made a mistake. for Aziraphale's character to be redeemable, what he has done, must be the only option that he's had for saving them both. I don't care what kind of situation could have resulted in him making this decision, but the only reason, the one and only reason, must be his love for Crowley. Otherwise it'll prove that he hasn't learnt his lessons or doesn't love Crowley enough to make a compromise, and in both cases, he's not worthy of love. He won't earn his happy ending by being tortured and feeling sorry and doing the apology dance for Crowley if he's hurt Crowley out of selfishness and stupidity again

But I'm sure he'll earn his happy ending and I'm sure he's learnt his lessons and it's too late for him to have unlearned them all in a matter of a few seconds. (He is an idiot but he's not stupid) and it's mostly because of this, that I believe the reason why he made that decision, must be very different from what it appears to be on the surface.

Anyway, this post is about what Aziraphale has learned and how he's changed.

I have made a post about their moments of conflict from both season one and two, it's here and you can look it up. This is where you begin to understand how Aziraphale has changed since season one because these are his dialogues after he's had a fight with Crowley in the bandstand, season one:

"even if I did know where the antichrist was I wouldn't tell you we're on opposite sides"

"friends? We're not friends. We are an angel and a demon. We have nothing whatsoever in common. I don't even like you"

"there is no our side Crowley. Not anymore. It's over"

And then there's season two, when they disagree on what to do with Gabriel, Aziraphale is the one to point out that they both rely on the life they've built together

He's asking him to help him take care of Gabriel together and in response Crowley leaves

In the final scene he asks Crowley to come back to heaven

"work with me" "We can be together as Angels, Doing good" "I need you."

He says anything he can think of literally to convince him to stay with him and it doesn't work

We start from "we're not friends" and arrive at "work with me. we can be together"

Even if we don't know the reason why he's insisting on taking Crowley back to heaven with him, this is an Angel that has picked up the pace. That wants them to be an us. No matter what.

But these are only a few dialogues. I think there's more than that. I think the show in five and a half episodes (out of six) has tried its hardest to make the point quite clear about how Aziraphale feels about Crowley (or how strongly he feels those emotions). all through the way he looks at him and through his gestures and soft touches from time to time

I'm gonna make another post of those moments separately and I'm gonna link it to this when I do.

update: (here's the post. not just average moments of Aziraphale looking cute, it's something about the way he looks at him)

And I'd like to even compare those wishful glances to some of those from season one, but I can't, cause they are nonexistent in there.

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thesherrinfordfacility · 4 months

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took me a while to sound out why the final fifteen felt so isolated from all the other arguments that they've had before, but "they aren't talking" might have led me to arrive at why that is. because whilst we have the "so did i" and bandstand arguments to compare it to, the closest that the final fifteen mirrors, for me, is their very first one that we see on screen; the holy water incident (and I'm 100% sure others have observed this but im slow)

the incident where crowley has experienced something that he's playing down to aziraphale, asks aziraphale for something to help him that only aziraphale can give to him, it turns out to be too much to ask of aziraphale, so he refuses, and they split apart. turn all of this around on its head, and you have the final fifteen. (and im going to put the caveat here: no, i do not think aziraphale has been threatened by the metatron and is communicating this in code to crowley, but yes i do think he feels threatened by the metatron; i think he's genuinely eager to take this opportunity, but equally he's not stupid).

so then they go through 79 years of silence, of not talking, and come to 1941, where aziraphale lands himself in a spot of bother, and crowley breaks their silence by coming to the rescue. they get through the church fiasco, and aziraphale enlists crowley's help in the bullet catch ("trust me"), without ever discussing the holy water - all the while, their affection and love for each other is broiling just beneath the surface. perhaps it stands to reason that the same will happen in s3; that crowley will find himself in a Situation, aziraphale turns up to get him out of it - using it as an Excuse - and they end up on the subject of the second coming etc., and crowley reluctantly agrees to help resolve it, but only with the unspoken provision that they, absolutely, do not discuss what happened in the bookshop.

but what about the missing scene of 1941? well, there have been hundreds of different speculations of what could have happened; they actually do discuss the holy water, or there's otherwise a bit of a vulnerable heart-to-heart, there's a kiss, there's an almost-kiss, there's a fight involving the zombies, the derringer comes out to play, crowley gets yanked back to hell again, or gets discorporated... but whatever happens evidently informs on the atmosphere attributable in 1967 - because it's not until 1967 that aziraphale considers his hand forced, cares so much for crowley that he'll do the very thing that he's previously refused to do - gives crowley the holy water - but then puts distance between them again. perhaps the same kinda of thing happens somewhere around ep3/4 of s3; that they finally get to a point where what happened - the kiss, the offer, the mutual rejection - can't be ignored any longer, and a full-bore-full-roar argument erupts at perhaps the most inopportune time, to the point it's just comical, leading them to the point where they finally both understand where they stand with each other, what the other meant, and wanted.

so look, im not saying that crowley is suddenly going to change his mind about going to heaven, in order to track with aziraphale's 180° on the holy water; that doesn't make much sense. and it similarly doesn't make much sense for them to create distance between them like they seem to have done in 1967. if anything, this time it's the impetus they need to get everything out and laid bare, nothing bitten back, nothing squashed down and restrained. "you go too fast for me" suddenly becomes "we're finally on the same page."

#i doubt this is a revelation to anyone else but me #good omens #feral domestic/final fifteen meta #flashback meta #1941 spec #s3 narrative spec

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the-apology-dance · 6 months

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Post Armageddon Headcanon

I refuse to believe that Aziraphale, Crowley, or both DIDN’T get thrown into a breakdown from how mentally and emotionally exhausted they were after the fight against the four horsemen and Satan himself. Combined with their executions.

Honestly so much emotionally charged events happened leading up to what very well could’ve been the end of the world that they both just suppressed because they didn’t have the time to dwell on it.

The bandstand conversation. The bookshop fire. Aziraphale discorporated himself. Crowley seriously drove through fire. Saw how the other would die. Could’ve very well have gotten themselves killed on multiple occasions.

I wouldn’t be surprised if one (or both) of them just started sobbing on that bench in St. James’ Park as everything caught up with them.

#good omens #crowley #aziraphale #ineffable husbands #good omens spoilers #neil gaiman #david tennant #micheal sheen #good omens 2 #good omens thoughts #good omens headcanons #emotional exhaustion #mental exhaustion #breakdown #my thoughts

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weirdly-specific-but-ok · 3 months

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pt XV good omens entire season 1: a nice and accurate summary

@neil-gaiman I like to delude myself into thinking you would be proud of this. Are you?

Hello, Asmi here, I present to you a summary so nice and accurate that if you're feeling masochistic, you can just breeze through this to catch up and then directly rewatch season 2 to cry! Which is what this fandom loves to do, so as mascot I'm here to enable you :") Spoilers here, of course, and a lot of chaos.

Episode One! We open with God narrating the Fall of Man and we've got ourselves a Bible AU, east gate angel/serpent forbidden lovers, quite wonderful really.

The serpent (Crowley) now in human form takes the Antichrist and catwalks across a graveyard. Crowley delivers the Antichrist to Satanic nuns but there are several fuckups.

The East Gate guardian (Amoxicillin) and Crowley raise the wrong baby for eleven years with Amoxicillin being a frightening gardener and Crowley being a gorgeous nanny.

They realise the baby is wrong. The real Antichrist wasn't raised by them and therefore owns braincells. He names his hellhound Dog.

Episode Two! Gabriel the angel is an ass, we get some nice witch-burning of Agnes Nutter who made prophecies, and oh yeah the apocalypse is now happening and the horsepeople are out.

Nutter's descendant finds the Antichrist and friends and is hit by Azithromycin and Crowley who are in love. Things happen but what is important is Azithromycin and Crowley stare at each other and also Dog faces off a tabby. Azithromycin lies to Heaven.

Episode Three! Crowley looks gorgeous at Noah's ark, Architecture tries not to listen to her about how shit it all is, boom flood dead.

Lots of romantic flashbacks with Archibald and Crowley, medieval, shakespeare, french revolution etc etc lots of sexual tension, Archibald is in handcuffs, Crowley rescues his books from a Nazi bombing.

Antihistamine gives Crowley holy water, breakup breakup, paintball, sexual tension wall slam, bandstand breakup, it is very sad.

Episode Four! Duck aliens invade earth, the Antichrist possesses children, Crowley and Aripiprazole are incompetent at heroics. Aripiprazole is sent to heaven and everything is on fire.

Episode Five! Crowley is very very sad and Antibiotics reappears and possesses a lady, there is vague hetero sex, Crowley is useless, Antibiotics is the posh gay, everything is still on fire.

Episode Six! Big apocalypse face-off, Crowley's car blows up, no one comforts him, Arsphenamine is now back in his body, eleven year olds kill the horsepeople because Crowley and Arsphenamine are still useless, the Antichrist solves his daddy issues.

Crowley and Antipyretic switch places to survive and then they go out to drink and toast to the world and everyone cries.

THE END! WAHOO!

[I am so, so sorry to everyone who was involved in the production of this show. You deserved better than this summary. But this is what you got. Blame the fandom, I am only a figurehead and mascot.]

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p4nishers · 8 months

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no im not fucking done aziraphale was starving for THOUSANDS OF YEARS for food for pleasure for kindness for TOUCH he spent his whole time on earth trying so hard not to care not to feel anything bc that's what they hammered into him for millions of years that he shouldn't feel anything for humans bc they're temporary bc they dont matter in the grand scheme of things and then AND THEN crowley (crawley then) showed him what it's like to enjoy something for the simple pleasure of fucking enjoying it and it was like a door had opened and aziraphale realized he was absolutely starving and after that he didn't stop starving and trying to satisfy his hunger and fucking THEN he started to let himself notice crowley and TOUCH him and he obviously tried not to do it for the simple reason that he wouldn't be able to STOP just like with eating he'd have thrown himself headfirst into it and he couldn't let that happen until he was sure crowley wouldn't be in danger bc of HIS feelings and HIS hunger and when they were finally fucking free he let himself want things and have them and he's wanted crowley so much for so long and suddenly he wasn't able to stop being near him and touching him and when he finally thought EVERYTHING would be the best it has ever been crowley yanked the floor underneath him and physically fucking walked away from him again just like he did on the bandstand but this time aziraphale didn't fucking let him walk away and crowley KISSED HIM he kissed him and opened up a hunger in aziraphale that he NEVER EVER in his eternal existence experienced before and he took it away just as fast and walked away again but aziraphale didn't stop him this time and aziraphale was left there to starve

#oh and also the flashback he realizes he's in love he doesn't eat anything bc he's already filled to the fucking brim. jesus christ.#good omens #good omens s2 #aziracrow #aziraphale

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sitzfleischh · 9 months

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Thinking about the S2 finale from Aziraphale's isolated/distorted perspective truly makes me want to fly into the sun.

Like he's spent his whole time on earth getting proof after proof that Crowley wants to do good, to help people. Despite Crowley's protestations Az KNOWS that he's (from Az's perspective) an angel on the inside.

He's been in love with Crowley and known it since at least 1941 but spent until the apocalypse-that-wasn't repressing the shit out of his feelings for fear of having his everything wrecked by heaven.

After their bodyswap stunt he just barely starts to believe he's safe enough now to act on his feelings and spends four years working up to it, getting better at causally touching Crowley, spending more time together than they ever have before, but terrified the whole time not of reprisal from heaven but of the idea that maybe Crowley doesn't like him back in the same way. He gets way too invested in getting Nina and Maggie together because really it's just an excuse to create further circumstances for him to be close to Crowley and figure out whether he also has romantic feelings for him.

Then the whole thing with Gabriel/Beez happens and he's given-- as far as he knows-- concrete proof that consorting with a demon gets you cast out of heaven. But he's worked up to it anyway and (a bit of conjecture here) I think he was planning to tell Crowley he loves him but then got interrupted by Metatron.

But hey, there you go, even better, he doesn't have to risk anything!! He can make Crowley an angel again -- he clearly WANTS to do good but he's just had to repress those feelings (and Az knows all about how it feels to repress feelings) because his side wouldn't approve. And they can be together AND be safe AND fix heaven!!!

But what's this? Crowley doesn't want that? He's rejecting Aziraphale, rejecting doing good, rejecting saving the earth just like he did the last time things got too hard, at the bandstand. He just wants to run away again because clearly none of this matters to him as much as Aziraphale thought it did.

And then he's kissing him-- the thing he's wanted SO BADLY for SO LONG, the thing he was hoping his ball dance would bring them too-- but it's not because he actually loves him romantically the way that Az does, no, he's just tempting him again, using his demonic ways to try to get Az to give up on everything and run away, just give up and let it all become a puddle of burning goo because he's too afraid to fight, and to express the desire to good that Az knows he has inside him.

And then... Then Aziraphale forgives him anyway. He forgives him because he still loves him, even after all of this, even if Crowley doesn't love him back and has used something so vulnerable against him for his own gain. He forgives him, and Crowley says "don't bother" and he leaves.

#good omens #GUTTED just GUTTED #good omens meta #good omens analysis #my good omens meta #and the reason they have to TALK about what theyre ACTUALLY THINKING #because if they could have these conversations from a place of knowing that they DO love each other and want to be together #it would be so much clearer #Ugh i need season 3 NOWWWW #anyway these two are both so repressed and traumatized cant wait for them to grow #sitzfleischh.meta

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dee-morris · 7 months

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Three Minisodes, Three Themes

The Final Fifteen kicked me in the face, because it felt like it came out of nowhere. As a breakup scene it felt identical to the Bandstand Scene but unlike the Bandstand I didn't sense any foreshadowing. You could see Aziraphale's anxiety and denial throughout season one, so as painful as it was it felt like a natural progression of events. This didn't feel like that. It felt like a complete gut punch.

But that's because Aziraphale's situation was different this time around, the circumstances were different, the motivation was different. Aziraphale is the one asking to run away this time, and Crowley is the one saying, "I can't, it would mean giving up everything." It's the Bandstand in reverse.

And there WAS foreshadowing; I just wasn't paying attention. If we'd gotten one episode at a time like Neil wanted maybe it would have been different, but never mind. There were three flashback minisodes in season two, and each one showed a significant step forward in the ineffables' relationship and Aziraphale's thinking. All of which culminated in That Decision, which was painful but necessary and I will die on this hill.

In the Job minisode, Aziraphale that he can lie for a good cause and get away with it. He also learns that heaven isn't necessarily the arbiter of all mortal goodness and sometimes he has to follow his own inner compass against the advice of people who claim to know better.

In The Resurrectionists, he learns that there's no such thing as absolute good or absolute wickedness. It's an extension of the first lesson, actually, about free will and making choices when none of them seem optimal. When you don't have enough power to keep you and your love ones safe, every choice is going to suck. And sometimes doing good is a matter of creating better circumstances so good choices are practical and feasible. You can't just wag your finger and expect people to do right. You have to give them the tools. Like, idk, angels who have been told for millions of years that Metatron is the final authority on the will of God: what if something happened to make everyone doubt that? (Did Metatrash actually know what he was doing by hauling Aziraphale back to heaven?)

In the Flesh Eaters minisode (my beloved), the ineffables take turns rescuing each other. "I knew you'd come through for me. You always do." "You said, Trust me." "And you did." (whimpers and bites fist) If that's not foreshadowing of the leap of faith they're going to have to take together to survive and save the world again in season three, I will eat Sir Terry's hat.

I knew from the start that there was a good chance season two would end like that, but I thought if I ignored it hard enough it wouldn't happen lol. Oh well. I hope Neil is feeling better, I had that new variant over the summer and it sucked goats.

#good omens #aziraphale #crowley #ineffable husbands #aziracrow #good omens season 2 #good omens 2 #crowley good omens #crowley x arizaphale #good omens meta #a companion to owls #The Resurrectionists #gos2

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tellthemeerkatsitsfine · 3 months

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Well that Champion of Champions episode was great. Ridiculously funny from start to finish, and all the tasks were top quality (maybe apart from the studio task, but even that wasn’t bad). I thought every contestant had at least a few really memorable moments.

I love the way the COC episodes get to be celebrations of Taskmaster as a whole. They can’t really do that in the regular episodes, because they’re playing to a studio audience that hasn’t seen the previous episodes from that season, so they try not to call back to too much stuff they haven’t seen. And they’re trying to appeal to casual TV viewers who might not have seen previous seasons, so there aren’t too many references to that either. But I guess they figure that anyone watching Champion of Champions has seen the preceding stuff, and they make it full of references.

I loved bringing back the bandstand from the early seasons, and this was the perfect time for it. I wouldn’t want them to do that in any of the regular episodes, for the same reason why I think Alex is right to say they won’t reuse old tasks – too easy to slip down the road to capitalizing on nostalgia and stop being original. Seeing the new, increasingly elaborate task location is a fun part of all the new seasons, I wouldn’t want to give that up. But bringing back the site of some of the greatest, establishing early Taskmaster moments for a one-off special was perfect.

And then they got in lots of ways to bring back old seasons. Kiell referencing the banana task. Dara’s outfit being a tribute to all of season 14. Ramsey’s name coming up on Sophie Duker’s signs. The comment about proposing to Alex Horne like in season 12. And obviously the constant mentions of Mae Martin. I like how they did that. That they didn’t try to be slick TV and pretend that everything had gone exactly according to plan and this is how the lineup was meant to be; roasting Kiell for an entire episode was much more fun than that.

I think I also agree with what Ed Gamble said on the podcast, that this may be the first time there’s been a Champion of Champions that makes total sense. Let’s be honest, Josh Widdicombe was quite good at Taskmaster but not the best player out of all 25 from the first five seasons (I think that might have been Noel Fielding, but then he chose to mess around and stop being competitive in COC1). And I also agree with Ed Gamble’s assessment that Richard Herring was competent in only one episode of Taskmaster, and it was COC2. That’s what happens when you only have one episode instead of taking the winner from an aggregate. And when you add a Golden Snitch studio task to it. But Dara O’Brien might be the most competent person to play in seasons 11-15, so that’s nice to see him as a Champion of Champions.

So there was a lot to enjoy about the episode for its place in the larger Taskmaster lore, but it was also just enormous fun as a one-off. That’s the other thing that’s fun about the COC episodes – it is cool to see an episode where everyone’s actually trying and no one’s particularly bad at it and everyone brings something interesting to the table.

Alex immediately going way too hard and way too personal when Sophie asked him to insult her. Sarah Kendall clapping for like half the episode and not realizing she was wearing a watch. Dara completing an entire task without even standing up by popping elastics off his head. Morgana remembering that season 12 task where she popped all those ice cubes in her offer and roundly outdoing herself with paint. Dragging the Greg statue across the ground. Sarah Kendall just being furious for the entire episode. Kiell not even bothering to try to find Alex. Kiell getting roasted all episode for the embarrassing flaw of not being Mae Martin. Sophie calling out Greg. Dara's wig montage. Sarah Kendall being absolutely furious. Did I mention that enough? God, I’d missed Sarah Kendall being furious.

Do Something Stupid was a brilliant task concept. I’m glad that stealing things from other versions is a loophole in Alex’s stance against reusing tasks, and I’m glad they found a way to make it broadcastable (though of course we all salute Guy and Urzilla for the lost task that the NZ producers are too cowardly to show us).

Hats off to the new champion. Hats, and wigs off to the new champion.

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shoemakerobstetrician · 8 months

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Aziraphale and Forgiveness

From the bandstand scene:

Crowley: For the record, Great Pustulent Mangled Bollocks to the Great Blasted Plan.

Aziraphale: May you be forgiven.

Crowley: I won’t be forgiven, not ever. That’s part of a demon’s job description. Unforgivable, that’s what I am.

After that Aziraphale starts saying “I forgive you.”

He’s no longer asking for God’s forgiveness for Crowley, he knows it won’t happen. He’s saying he disagrees with God, that Crowley deserves forgiveness.

I think it’s bigger to Aziraphale than saying I love you would be. He’s a creature of love, created to love everything and to serve God. In saying “I forgive you” he’s offering Crowley something he knows God would deny him.

At the end of S2 I don’t think he’s talking about the kiss. He’s just offered Crowley God’s forgiveness and Crowley has turned it down because of the conditions. I think he is reminding Crowley that he still has Aziraphale’s unconditional forgiveness (acceptance) regardless of Crowley’s choice.

Having just rewatched the last scenes, I also find it interesting that when Crowley says listen, just before the nightingale line, in the beat that follows we don’t hear silence, we hear the ticking of the clock. Is that the bookshop equivalent of “crickets…”, or is our attention supposed to be drawn to the clock, which is reading 15 minutes later than it was at the beginning of a scene that was only a few minutes long. I know the clock has been brought up, don’t know if anyone has mentioned it’s insistent ticking when we as the audience have just been told to listen.

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sightkeeper · 8 months

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hey! first off, js wanna say that i LOVE your art and style, and having just binged chosen faces for the first time, I am. smitten.

and so I had to ask you this question- feel free to ignore it if it somehow has spoilers - but ik that you don't plan to cover s2 apart from short scenes that spark your interest, but do you think your aziraphale would've made the same... decision that he made in canon? towards the end?

also can he take metatron in a fight :D pls say yes :D

Oh man oh man, this one really made me think! I don't think answering this is spoilers in any way, as we already know I'm following S1 canon (even if you don't know what changes to events I've yet to make). So the question is whether or not Chosen Face!Aziraphale would have accepted the Metatron's offer, and tried to convince Crowley to join him and become an angel again. Granted, as of now, we do not know the full story of why TV Aziraphale reacted the way he did. We didn't even get to truly see the conversation he had with the Metatron on the offer, only what he tells Crowley. And I don't trust him to be a reliable narrator. Let alone that we never see him say 'yes'. He just says 'I don't know what to say.'

There's a lot of really interesting theories about the new season and why characters act the way they do, but for the purpose of this ask I'm going to go with the assumption that everything we saw on screen is accurate, without anything happening in the background or death threats or spiked coffees to explain their actions. And to this end, I'm going to bring up these past two responses to Q&As:

Because I started this comic pre-S2, I have their very first meeting being on the wall of Eden. CF!Aziraphale never met angel Crowley. He has no assumptions of how happy Crowley was prior to Falling.

TV!Aziraphale is complex and fallible, which is why I love him, but he also has shown that when faced with the ultimatum of running or facing the threat, he'd sacrifice his own happiness for what he felt was right (the bandstand). The end of S2E6 felt much the same to me in this. The Metatron is obviously manipulative, and Aziraphale has a lot more growing to do (as does Crowley, whose response was again to run off together), but at his core Aziraphale wants to do good. It's just whose definition of 'good' and to what end that he wibbles over. Would CF!Aziraphale react the same? Well, kinda no, but also unfortunately yes. I'm so sorry. I don't think the setup could have been the same. CF!Aziraphale doesn't harbor any notion of Heaven being purely good, and hasn't for a good while. But he does want to believe that God has a plan, and that if he can figure out that plan, he can win the game. By this I mean, Aziraphale's initial goals were to be on the "right/winning" side of the game, so he joined the angels as a tactical advantage. But as he grew to love earth and genuinely wanting to be kind, winning the game meant less of being a "victor", and more "If I figure out the game plan, I can subvert it if need be." He doesn't know what the plan is. But he does think the Metatron would know. So an opportunity to infiltrate their ranks and be able to make real structural changes that wouldn't break reality? Yeah, I could see him taking it. And since giving Crowley the holy water, Aziraphale has trusted Crowley to keep himself safe even when he's not around.

howling screaming slashing at the walls

As for whether or not he'd still present the question to Crowley, I think he would (but without the implication of how nice it was back then). He'd present the option only because it is an option, and he wouldn't want to take away Crowley's ability to choose that fate for himself. After all, he chose to be an angel and found a home in that identity. He'd want to offer Crowley that same courtesy, if that's actually what he wanted.

He doesn't want to control Crowley and make decisions for him. And if Crowley's decision means they have to separate for a time until he can figure out The Plan? He'll be heartbroken but he'll accept it.

Okay but the real answer you're looking for: could CF!Aziraphale take on the Metatron and win?

YOU FUCKIN' BETCHA THAT FLOATING HEAD IS GOING DOWN

#Ran Writes #asks #anonymous #chosen faces au #good omens season 2 #good omens spoilers #this has just been stewing in my head all morning I cannot rest #why are you like this aziraphale I adore you but what the FUCK #let alone that I just don't have the stamina to try to cover S2 in fully rendered comic pages like I'm doing for S1 #I cannot handle the heartbreak 2.0 and CF is having a happy ending goddammit

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thesherrinfordfacility · 5 months

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Honest question, not trying to pick a fight, but what's Crowley traumatized from if it's not the Fall or whatever else Heaven did to him in the Before? I'm pretty sure he does have trauma (unless you're arguing he actually isn't that badly traumatized period?) and I somehow feel it would be counter-productive to no difference between the sides if that came exclusively only from what Hell did and none of it from Heaven. (I'll also say though it's certainly not proof in any way I do find it hard to imagine the experience not leaving any scars behind, eternal damnation and dive into boiling sulphur and all whatnot.)

hey anon!!!✨ nah, my opinion is that there just isn't the canonical evidence that crowley has suffered trauma at all. we don't know for certain how he fell, we don't know for certain the reason why he fell, and we don't know what his relationship with heaven/god was like before the fall. we definitely have insight into it, from:

pre-fall scene

how he treats his plants/the goats

his drunken ramblings in the pub

(and the seemingly contradictory "sauntered vaguely downwards to aziraphale)

the "unforgivable, that's what i am" thing at the bandstand

and various other things, his sneers at heaven etc etc.

all of these things, to my mind, can be definitely interpreted as symptoms of and responses to trauma... but he could also just be really bloody angry and upset by it. anger/sadness and trauma are not mutually exclusive, of course not - but not all trauma is anger/upset, and not all anger/upset is necessarily trauma. crowley has demonstrated that he's an unreliable narrator; imo, that's the thing that we should be taking as canon (that the fall may not have been what we're imagining it to be, and that crowley's account may be incredibly biased/inaccurate).

we're not shown anything that suggests he was abused by heaven, or suffered a singular huge, or any series of, shocking or distressing event/s. absolutely, you can read into everything shown to us so far and evaluate that, when the final puzzle pieces land, we will be shown that crowley definitely suffered trauma... but equally, what if we're not? what if we're shown that crowley's fall was... a bit bland?

i mean, what if it's the difference between crowley having been rejected by his peers/family, for something completely innocent, and then essentially put through unimaginable, torturous pain through the physical act of falling... and being sacked as part of a massive lay-off that he essentially volunteered for, but thinks was grossly unfair? those are obviously really contrived, polarising examples, deliberately on opposite ends of the spectrum, and the likelihood is that the true events are somewhere in the middle -

- but my point is ultimately that until we're shown exactly what happened, whilst what we've been shown so far doesn't preclude the possibility of trauma/crowley being traumatised, a possibility is all it is; imo, it's not exactly canon at all✨

#essentially. we need a fall scene #good omens #ask #crowley meta

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deramin2 · 8 months

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I've head Crowley and Aziraphale referred to as a "will they won't they" story. I can understand that interpretation, but it feels like it misses the depth the historical minisodes add: They will. They always will in the end because they always have. (This isn't the end.)

For millennia they've been drawn together. At first by many chance meetings. And then because they liked each other. Crowley pushed Aziraphale to have free will and examine what he wanted to do and experience beyond what Heaven said he ought to. And Aziraphale saw past Crowley's scowling exterior and associates to the kind person he actually is. They're both answers to questions the other's been asking.

And end of season 1 they were brave enough to choose each other over their respective sides openly and defiantly. When they thought the bookshop had burned down, Crowley offered to let Aziraphale stay with him until it was sorted. Aziraphale turned him down under the excuse that Heaven wouldn't like it. (Even though he's already been kicked out of heaven.)

Season 2 we see the fall out of their defiance. They've had peace but it's transient. Crowley respected that Aziraphale didn't want to live together even temporarily so he never told him he was living in his car. Crowley compared angels to bees. Aziraphale has lost his hive. Even though he has his earthly delights and Crowley, he's feeling very alone. Crowley is used to that kind of loneliness, Aziraphale isn't.

That's the weakness Heaven exploits to undermine his freedom. They promise him he can have heaven and Crowley. All it takes is Crowley agreeing to be a subject of heaven again. But of course Crowley is never going to do that. Crowley knows both sides are equally toxic, manipulative, and violent. He's an abolitionist of the entire system.

Aziraphale is a reformist. He thinks that this is all a big misunderstanding of God's great plan and if he was in change they could get everything sorted out and it would all be how it's supposed to be. He thinks the violence is an accident and not inherent to the system.

For 6000 years Crowley's been trying to persuade Aziraphale to stop being complicit. Their biggest wins are when Aziraphale listens to him. But he doesn't win every time. Aziraphale's entire existence has been defined by upholding the belief that God has a plan and that plan is inherently good. If that's not true, they Aziraphale has no certainty. This is a man who's worn the same outfit for over 100 years. He likes the comfort of the status quo.

Choosing his own way with Crowley is utterly terrifying to him. So he was promised that he could have all his certainty back, AND he could have Crowley. It was a very expertly crafted temptation. And of course it's a lie. He won't have any real power and the power he is given will just make him more complicit and drive him farther apart from Crowley, which is the real goal. If they just deny Crowley to Aziraphale, Aziraphale will fight them. This way they make it look like it's Crowley keeping them apart and Heaven is being the reasonable ones. It's a kind of deceit Aziraphale isn't used to from angels. But it's been shaping his whole life. He's so used to that kind of emotional manipulation that it looks like love. It's an amplification of what happened at the Bandstand.

So this is their trip into the underworld where they have to face their greatest foe: their own selves. But the point on that story form is to come back out again transformed, not just stay there. To be that's not the "will they won't they" trope of straight media, it's the core queer trope of the cyclical fight for the relationship against a world that wants to tear you apart. Personally I wasn't expecting Neil Gaiman to write the tone of Big Eden, I was expecting Torch Song Trilogy. Especially when the story was being written. The adaptation is new, but the story comes from a particular queer media tradition.

Famously Torch Song Trilogy was three plays, but if you tried to stage the first or second play without the third it's just a bummer. The second play in particular has a devastating ending. But add the last play and get to the end of the story and it's a masterpiece. It couldn't hit that high without either of those lows.

Queer love stories are about how love isn't per-destined, it's something you choose and fight for. Sometimes you fight yourself for it. Sometimes you fight your partner for it. But you always have to fight the world for it. And it's worth it. It's so worth it to love and be loved. "The mortifying ordeal of being known." It's about being brave enough to do what you know is right against a world that says established power and decorum is better for everyone.

Queer media is all about cycles. They haven't been waffling about their relationship for trivial reasons. It was never going to be that easy. Their love represents a very real threat to institutional power. as do Beelzebub and Gabriel. Angels and Demons are not supposed to have free will by definition. Free will and choice is supposed to be a human trait. Is love and compassion stronger than God's plan?

Challenging and subverting systems of power like Heaven and Hell isn't a one-and done. They don't lose a battle and give up the war. Crowley and Aziraphale chose their own side but their still combatants. It takes courage to keep fighting and that slips. But I also trust Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett and the places they guide their stories to in the end. The minisodes of Aziraphale and Crowley's history shows that however many times they get cold feet and withdraw, they always come back together. That's their nature, and it's more powerful than Heaven's schemes.

#good omens #good omens spoilers #good omens season 2 #good omens meta #crowley x aziraphale #crowley #aziraphale #ineffable husbands #go s2 spoilers #long post

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therend · 9 months

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I really love how this season focused on Aziraphale's relationship with God the same way season one did with Crowley. Because I think, ultimately, it all comes back to God. Not Heaven and Hell, the two "sides" that are actually not that different at all, but God themself.

In the first season we saw Crowley yell at God with no answer, telling them desperately that they shouldn't test humans to destruction. Then there's the scene Crowley goes to apologize to Aziraphale after the bandstand. Aziraphale thinks if he just reaches the right people everything would be fine, and Crowley says "there aren't any right people. There's just God, moving in mysterious ways and not talking to any of us".

But Aziraphale can't see that. He knows heaven isn't exactly caring, but he wants to separate God from heaven, he wants to believe that God is good and if Heaven sometimes isn't, it's because it's not walking in the path of God. He wants to believe the best in everyone and most importantly in God. He wants to believe that God loves him as much as he loves them. He wants to believe that God is a being of affection and reason and peace like he is, and Crowley was the same, mind you.

When Angel Crowley questioned God's plan of destroying his beloved creation in just a few thousand years, he wasn't questioning God. he hoped he could make God hear him, just like Aziraphale did when he tried to contact God in season one. Angel Crowley was sure he was doing a good thing, giving God suggestions to better their creation. He wholeheartedly believed that asking questions wouldn't get him into any troubles because he BELIEVED God is good and wants the best for everyone. And then, after he was thrown out of heaven for no reason, after he was rejected by the one being who's supposed to love and accept him, the one being who created him and gave him the ability to create and question and love, he had no choice but to throw away all of his flowery ideas of God being something better than their representatives. He had to acknowledge the truth at that point because it was the reality of his situation.

And that's exactly what hasn't happened for Aziraphale yet. He keeps wanting to talk to God and God doesn't speak to him, he sees God stand back and do nothing when humans suffer, and sometimes actively cause their suffering, like in Job's case. And he saw God banish Crowley, this beautiful, good, deeply caring being he's so in love with. He knows in the back of his brain that God isn't someone to expect anything good from either, but he can't admit it just yet. We see him all through season one trying to explain God's careless decisions, seemingly to Crowley but mostly to himself. "It's ineffable," he says, as if the smug lack of explanation is explanation enough for breaking the morality God's supposed to represent. Crowley was the child who was disowned, and Aziraphale is the child who is mistreated over and over again but still thinks that if he does everything just right, his parent would finally acknowledge and love him.

And one of the most painful things about all this is that Crowley's witnessing this all. He knows God won't ever care for Aziraphale the way Aziraphale wants them too. He knows Aziraphale will only hurt himself in this. He can be the love Aziraphale needs, he is the love Aziraphale needs, he's just so deep in his craving for God's approval that he cannot see it.

#good omens #GOS2Spoilers #this is me projecting my own trauma relating to god and parents on them both but also I'm right #hopefully in season three god fucks him over good enough that he Realizes #it's going to be very painful but like. it's already very painful #wow i hate god

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ladymelisande · 9 months

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Aziraphale and Crowley's Relationship in Season 2 is a Deconstruction of Their Relationship from Season 1 and That's Why the Fandom is Reacting Like That

Something I have noticed from the people that say that Aziraphale is OOC in Season 2 or that create elaborate batshit theories to strip him from any agency in the finale is that they can't let go of the idea that they had of the relationship between Aziraphale and Crowley from Season 1, but at the same time completely ignore that the seeds for what happened in Season 2 are already there, not only in episodes of Season 2 but in the previous one.

Now, the thing is, with only Season 1, the fandom assumed that, just like in the book, the ending with the dining in the Ritz and then immediately jumping in a romantic relationship because the subtext was already there. Or that they were actually romantic and the relationship just didn't adhere with human standards. I think that is one of the reasons why the fandom never brothered to analyse the dynamic in more depth than 'they love each other'. In Season 1, we have the first seed for their conflict of Season 2 and weren't in the book: The bandstand fight, the flashbacks and the body swap.

The bandstand is probably the one that resonated the most because it changed something quite fundamental about the book which was Aziraphale not only holding the information about the Anti Christ from Crowley but actively telling him that he wouldn't tell him because they are in opposite sides. He actively lies to Crowley when he calls saying that everything is fine and why would he lie to him. This didn't happen quite in the book because Book!Aziraphale was not as attached to Heaven as Show!Aziraphale is nor did he have as much conflict with his relationship with Crowley.

Aziraphale lying to Crowley is never addressed in the narrative by the latter because they have more important things to do, but it establishes how Aziraphale, even when he still wanted to prevent Armageddon, still believed he owned Heaven more loyalty than to Crowley. Preventing Armageddon and being loyal to Heaven weren't mutually exclusive for him, since he doesn't even reply about Crowley's comment of 'our own side' and even then he instinctively calls them 'my side'. Since the first season was thought as standalone by the fandom for some years, people never assumed anything negative from this, but there, for me is seed for conflict.

Then we have the flashbacks, the flashbacks that establish Crowley and Aziraphale's dynamic through the centuries as enemies/friends that help each other. They meet in secret, they talk in codes, Aziraphale has to come with elaborate Damsel in Distress plot to see Crowley. We are shown how dangerous was for them to be discovered in Season 2 (particularly for Crowley), but in Season 1 they only get punished when they stop Armageddon, so the fandom assumed that after that, they would just start a relationship without problems because they weren't being watched anymore.

But then Neil came with Season 2 and said 'nope, that wouldn't work, sorry' and he came with what the fandom always dreads: A deconstruction of their fluffy headcanon, basically telling us “This thing you interpreted wouldn't go like this or this because this or this” and the fandom is so mad about it because, deep inside, they know they can't deny it.

Season 2 deconstructs the idea that Aziraphale and Crowley were ready to form a romantic relationship after years and years of tiptoing on a friendship. They learned to pretend they weren't friends or had feelings for each other both because the danger that entailed and because of their fundamentally different mindsets, so of course that jumping to a romantic relationship would be hard after that, when all their communication has been just assuming what the other wants.

One of the things that the season really tore apart but the fandom didn't realise is the idea of Aziraphale as this pure cinnamon role/damsel in distress. The idea is presented in canon and even has dialogue thrown about it but is also deconstructed by the way it shows how it is not ideal for their relationship because Crowley has become so used about protecting Aziraphale that he just hides things that he thinks might upset him (like what happened during the body swap) and also that the angel has become so used on Crowley going along with what he wants to please him that he doesn't think for a second that Crowley wouldn't want to go along with something if he asks him or would eventually relent to please him.

The season tore apart the idea that their relationship would be an easy road just because they love each other, because relationships need work and the fandom hates to think about that.

#good omens spoilers #crowley x aziraphale #azicrow #good omens

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unforgivablego · 9 months

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It amazes me how people still can't get over the ending of season 2. How they come up with incredible things and analyze any fly in the frame. Like: “Every detail definitely means something, I can feel it. Here he raised an eyebrow in this direction, and usually he doesn’t do that.” And they build all sorts of theories to calm themselves. «The coffee theory» is a clear example of this.

It also amazes me how quickly and simply I came to terms with the ending. I already let go and I switched to the active mode of “patiently waiting and watching what is happening.” With all these theories, I have long accepted everything as it is.

Just think about what if season 1 had ended with a quarrel in a bandstand. We would also be very broken, but we have a continuation. We have two more episodes in season 1 after that fight. It's the same here. We just finished a little before the story gets to the end.

What do I think now that I was able to survive the ending? They just have another quarrel, which of course will be resolved in the first episode, maybe at the end, or maybe at the beginning of the next one. I'm sure Neil will delay «talking about feelings» until the very end, and he will do it in the same way that he did in season 1. There will be something so massive and catastrophic that our idiots simply will not have the right moment to decide everything among themselves. They will joke a lot in action or intense scenes like:

“We’re about to die, so it’s time for you to admit that you love me too.”

“I never said I didn't love you.”

“Then why have you been silent all this time?”

“Well, you didn't ask.”

“Angel, you're just... *hisses indignantly* …unbearable.”

They will bicker again like old married couple. And it will happen at the most inopportune moments. They will look at each other in love from behind. They will protect each other when someone says something caustic and rude in their direction. They will joke and argue over trifles. They will quarrel more than once, disperse and converge again. They will tease each other, but will return to each other again.

And only in the last episode they will come to that conversation at the end of season 2 and discuss everything. Because it's quite in the style of the both seasons.

So, I want to reassure you all. They will all be ok. We have absolutely nothing to worry about.

Calm down already and start writing fluff fanfiction, because I'm already tired of drama at every story I open.

Thank you🙏

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ahyesmygoodomenssideblog · 9 months

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I can't believe there are people still trying to both-sides this. Like I saw someone compare Crowley not telling Aziraphale about the Book of Life to Aziraphale not telling Crowley about Agnes Nutter's prophecies which is? I think people forget how bad what Aziraphale did in season 1 actually was. Like.

Aziraphale found the book and didn't tell Crowley what it was. Fine. He then deciphered the prophecy and found the Antichrist. Crowley calls him in the middle of this and Aziraphale flat-out lies to him:

A: “Open thine eyes and read, I do say, foolish principalitee, for thy cocoa doth grow... cold". "Thy cocoa doth grow cold"? What cocoa-- Oh! [phone rings]. C: Any news? Found the missing Antichrist yet? A: No. No news. Nothing. Nothing at all. If I had anything, I would tell you, obviously. Immediately. We're friends. Why would you even ask? C: Oh, there's no news here either. Call me if you find anything. A: Absolutely. Why would you think I wouldn't?

Aziraphale finishes deciphering the prophecy and does not tell Crowley. He starts planning how to tell Heaven instead. Then he schedules a meeting with Heaven. He tells the archangels that Hell lost the Antichrist, but backs out of telling them where the Antichrist actually is when they say they still want the war to happen.

Then Aziraphale returns to Earth. He recruits Shadwell to keep an eye on Adam, but doesn't tell him Adam is the Antichrist. Crowley calls and schedules the bandstand meeting. This is going on 24 hours after he deciphered the prophecy. Aziraphale once again lies to Crowley's face:

C: Any news? A: Um… What-what kind of news would that be? C: Well, have you found the missing Antichrist's name, address and shoe size yet? A: His shoe size? Why-- Why would I have his shoe size? C: It's a joke. I've got nothing either. A: It's the Great Plan, Crowley.

This conversation ends with:

A: Even if I did know where the Antichrist was, I wouldn't tell you, we're on opposite sides! C: We're on our side! A: There is no "our side", Crowley! Not anymore! It's over.

The next morning, Aziraphale comes across Gabriel jogging in the park. He tries to talk Gabriel out of the war again. Meanwhile, Hastur and Ligur confront Crowley at the movies. Crowley goes to Aziraphale and begs him to leave again. Aziraphale refuses because he wants to ~talk to God~ first. Crowley - thinking they are out of options and with Hell now actively after - says he's leaving the planet.

If Aziraphale had told Crowley the truth at any point, they could have been together for everything that followed. They could have dealt with Hastur and Ligur together, matched two-on-two. Aziraphale could have been the one handling the Holy Water. Crowley could have been there while Aziraphale talked to the Metatron.

He could have dealt with Shadwell. Aziraphale wouldn't have discorporated. The fire wouldn't have happened. Or, even if it did all happen the same, Crowley at least would have known what happened instead of showing up to an inferno and thinking his best friend was dead.

So I'm like. Imagine if Crowley did that. Imagine the inverse scenario. Hear me out.

At the beginning of season 1, Crowley is handed the Antichrist. Aziraphale learns from Gabriel that things are afoot. Crowley delivers the Antichrist and then immediately contacts Aziraphale to fill him in. It then takes a lot of talking, 6 hours of drinking, etc. for Crowley to convince Aziraphale that they should stop the apocalypse. The way he's finally able to convince him is to rationalize it as Aziraphale thwarting Crowley's Evil.

Now imagine if, instead of calling Aziraphale, Crowley agonized over what to do with his knowledge. Imagine he tries to talk Hastur, Ligur, and Beelzebub out of it. He agonizes over it some more. He tries talking to Beelzebub again. Meanwhile Aziraphale is desperately trying to figure out what's going on, he's contacting Crowley multiple times, and Crowley is outright lying to him. Imagine Crowley takes this issue all the way to Satan, gets told yet again the exact same thing everybody has been telling him, and only then turns to Aziraphale for help. Fucking imagine that.

That is what Aziraphale did in season 1. He did not trust Crowley, and Crowley suffered for it. Crowley's trauma from the bookshop fire is a result of Aziraphale choosing Heaven over Crowley over and over again.

This is also imo what's being referenced in the graverobber episode, with Aziraphale having to talk himself into saving Morag's life. By the time Aziraphale stops dithering, it's always too late.

#good omens season 2 #good omens spoilers #good omens meta #aziraphale critical

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