#harry potter ship dynamics discourse

[lunar-serpentinite]

alright kiddos buckle up, cloud has Opinions today

let's talk about the alpha douchification of harry and baby girlification of draco, as blackcathjp so wonderfully said

i will tell you that this isnt my first rodeo when it comes to mlm ships being shoved into heteronormative gender roles. ive been in the yaoi fandom, ive been in the BL fandom, ive been a weeb since i was aged single digits. im perfectly aware of how deep in mlm ship spaces this issue is. but today's subject of interest is drarry, and why i dont like a certain popular characterisation of drarry.

first of all let's pose the question : why is harry the manly alpha head honcho douchebag dumbass jock ? why is draco the naughty bratty overdramatic babygirl princess ? why do yall feel the need to push harry and draco into these stereotypical gender roles, especially in smut ? whats up with that ?

yes harry is a quidditch guy but that doesnt automatically make him a dumbass jock ? the guy's not stupid. i wont elaborate because i and several others have discussed harry's intelligence in other posts already (will link if asked), but yeah harry's not a "dumbass" or a "himbo", at least not in the way you people love to characterise him as. hes not even trying to be a dominating presence. hell, the guy wants to skeddaddle out of situations 8 times out of 10. hes a rough kind of dude, sure, but thats more for his own protection and not out of a need to dominate or control other people. it's weird and stupid to reduce harry's character just to make him fit yalls' homophobic and heteronormative view of mlm dynamics.

SPEAKING OF THAT, what is up with people overplaying draco's overdramatic tendencies and tying it to being a sub and/or a bottom or being the 'feminine' one in the relationship ? i love my bratty subs as much as the next person (my no.1 blorbo rn is a bratty sub who BITES), but if draco's only a bratty sub because hes an overdramatic princess diva who is so, so helpless without the presence of testosterone in your eyes, you need to reevaluate. yes hes a bit helpless in canon but again he was a kid with no pratical combat experience caught up in a war. + his parents' safety being dangled in front of him who wouldnt be helpess in that scenario ?

people absolutely love to explore draco's gender beyond being masculine and theoretically i love that because i love seeing people interpret characters all over the gender spectrum but there's just something about the popular draco gender exploration that just ,,, irks me, for the lack of a better word. people make him smaller ??? than he actually is ?? more helpless ??? like the height and size difference between drarry in canon isnt that noticeable but by god do people stretch it out to infinity and beyond. to make the fem-coded half of the ship smaller and more helpless and more dramatic is, frankly, toeing the lines of misogynistic if it isnt there already.

and why is it that it's always harry who is hypermasculine and draco who is hyperfeminine ? why not have both be feminine ? both be masculine ? both be all over the gender spectrum ? whyyyyyyy do they have to be male x female coded ??? hello ?????? if i wanted a heterosexual ship, i wouldnt be here

like come on guys, theres a bunch of different ways to write mlm ships and a bunch of resources out there to help you get going. why are we still sticking with the heteronormative gender roles in this day and age ? have we not grown out of it yet ?

THIS DOESNT MEAN I DONT HAVE AN ISSUE W HYPERFEMININE HARRY AND HYPERMASCULINE DRACO TOO. i despise heteronormative gender role coding. let queer ships be queer without the lens of heteronormativity.

#harry potter #harry james potter #draco malfoy #draco lucius malfoy #drarry #draco malfoy x harry potter #hpdm discourse #discourse #mine : cloud has Opinions today #harry potter discourse #harry potter ship dynamics discourse

[sebbianas]

i do not understand the jegulus vs drarry discourse on twt because setting aside the gryffindor/slytherin and potter/black dynamics, these two ships isnt the same

like drarry is enemies to lovers, they are rivalry to lovers, they are i saw you at your worst and fell in love trope, they are i will fight you but i will burn anyone who dare touches you trope, they are i’ve been looking at you my whole life but im finally seeing you for the 1st time trope

meanwhile jegulus is best friend’s brother to lover, brother’s best friend to lover, they are i loved you the moment i met you but you only saw me as your best friend’s brother trope, they are i cared about you for my best friend’s sake but now that i know you i cant help but fall in love trope

even who they are is different. whereas draco is loud and boastful regulus is quiet and calculating, whereas james is cocky and charming harry is humble and witty

you might argue that is draco=james and regulus=harry and even that is not true

draco’s pride resides in the fact that he is from a pureblood family while james’ pride resided in him being handsome and good at quidditch, he is smart and charming, he got popular because of that

on the other hand regulus is outwardly cold, he emits the aura of a respected pureblood because its what he was taught and raised, he is prim and proper meanwhile harry is shy, he grew up alone and for the longest time he’s on his own, he is friendly but awkward, he’s sweet and kind and is genuine with people he likes

so this whole argument is just kinda pointless

#jegulus #drarry

[duplicitywrites]

Re: Annoying Discourse That Other People Won't Leave Alone

This is not about community, so let's not pretend it's about community, because there are 2,665 works rated Explicit under 'Harry Potter/Tom Riddle | Voldemort'. Under all ratings in this ship, 283 of those are tagged Bottom Harry Potter, and 254 are tagged Top Tom Riddle, and 105 are tagged Top Voldemort.

Assuming absolutely NO overlap, that is 642 fics with this specific dynamic tagged. We have 642 out of 2,665 fics, which is just under 25%, which means 75% of all Explicit fics, at a minimum, are NOT tagged with this dynamic.

Let me repeat that number so it sinks in.

75% percent of Explicit fics are either not tagged with a dynamic at all, or tagged with the opposite dynamic.

This is not about tagging either, and let's not pretend it's about tagging, because if it was about tagging, then the polite thing to do would be to only look fics at tagged with any one of those three tags I mentioned.

That is what tags are for, not just for filtering out a million things you dislike, but also for filtering the things you DO like. The idea of asking all remaining 75% of fics to ALL tag their dynamics is rightfully ridiculous for that reason.

So if this isn't about tagging or community, what is this about? Well, this is about people who have a specific problem with something they specifically dislike, and instead of clicking the back button or closing the tab, they decide to make their problem someone else's problem.

They decide to comment on fics, demanding that these fics be tagged to their personal preference. They decide that people who refuse to comply to these demands are the problem, because that's where they've shoved the problem, onto others. They refuse to accept responsibility for their own actions or monitor their own content consumption.

It has nothing to do with tagging. It has nothing to do with etiquette. It is people getting angry that the world doesn't bend over backwards to accommodate them, and then throwing stones from their glass houses.

#fandom #i use the tags i want to use #i will defend other authors' rights to use the tags they want to use

[rriavian]

Shipper Tag Game

Tagged by @seiya-starsniper <3

What ship were you completely obsessed with as a teenager, but now you don't care about anymore?

I don’t think there are any actually! I’m pretty consistent and will usually circle back to a ship every couple of years 😊

Which ship would you consider your first one?

This is tough, I don’t think I actually remember. Though I think last time I answered this question I mentioned Lord of the Rings because of Aragorn/Arwen

Your first fanfic was about which couple?

My secret anon identity means I can’t answer this honestly – but the first one I’ve written without being anonymous is Corintheus

Do you remember the first couple you saw fan art of?

Long long time ago so not quite sure actually, might be a ship from Harry Potter

Have you ever gotten into ship discourse?

Nope! I try and stay away from it—though I never hide my opinions, I just don’t really engage too much in ship discourse. People are always going to have differing opinions over pairings, and I’ve seen it get very ugly in fandom spaces.

Did you use to have any NOTP or have one currently?

Oh I have a fair few, but usually they are ships I was previously neutral about. Some of them are also things I've previously shipped. My NOTPs are pretty much all results of a not so pleasant fandom experience, so I don’t really talk a lot about what they are. I’m a multishipper so the only time I actually have a NOTP is when a ship is overwhelmingly represented in a way that I just can’t get on board with.

Who were the last couple in the last fanfic you read?

Corintheus 😊 which is definitely what I’m most known for haha, so probably not a surprise

Currently, do you have any OTPs?

As I said…I am a multishipper, and I’ve never really had an OTP. It’s not a concept I really resonate with? Especially with fanfic because for me it’s all about the exploration of possibilities, and I can very much ship multiple things at once. I care more about interesting/well executed characterisation and well written relationship dynamics.

Is there any couple that, to this day, that you are extremely mad about not getting into?

Not really, because if I’m not into a ship in at least some way (or neutral/open to the possibility) then there is usually a very, very good reason.

Is there any ship you used to dislike but now you think they're kind of interesting?

Hmm. Maybe Desire/Unity? But it’s not that I ever really disliked them, more that there are some obvious consent issues within it that initially made me not really consider the ship too closely. The more I see others exploring it the more I’ve found them interesting 😊

Do you have any ship that, in the past, would have been considered normal but now you would be cancelled over?

I don’t think so actually! Though I’m probably forgetting something

What is your favourite crack ship?

Ooh I’ve read a lot of bizarre stuff. Hmm. It might have to be a certain ship that @writing-for-life introduced me to (if you know what I’m talking about it will need no further explanation haha)

What is the couple you read the most fanfics about?

I’m still anon in a lot of fandoms so I can’t actually answer this question too honestly. I haven’t actually been reading that much recently (very focused on writing at the moment)

What do most of your ships have in common?

Equality…in some fashion they are each other’s match. Which sounds like a strange thing to say for Corintheus but it doesn’t necessarily have to be in physical strength/power.

I also ship a fair few ‘enemies to lovers’ ships. Probably for the above reason! It’s the intimacy of it I think. Also the complexity, I like ships where the dynamic is compelling but not necessarily easy to pull off in a fic, because that usually means more thought is put into the execution of it. If that makes sense? And I am very much all about the execution when I read/write.

What do you absolutely hate in a ship?

Butchering characterisation just to play out a binary sex dynamic. Mostly this presents as overt feminisation of the one character who is designated to be ‘weaker’ for reasons both untrue and usually very offensive. Which sounds harsh but it’s something I utterly despise. Folded into this is also one character ‘fixing’ the other character, especially when this involves that character giving up something important/integral to who they are. I see it so much in published fiction as well and it’s just not for me at all.

I also really don’t like it when unhealthy behaviours are romanticised (usually to ‘fix’ one character) or miscommunication when it’s not something silly like accidentally buying your partner the wrong type of coffee because you were so tired you misheard a word.

#shipper tag game #thanks for the tag! #this has been in my drafts for ages! #so sorry I'm late!

[solitaire-sol]

Prongsfoot Week 2023 - Day 1

This... maybe got away from me a bit, but I'll take any chance to present my Prongsfoot ramblings in a semi-organized fashion!

When and Why did you begin to Ship Prongsfoot? What makes you Ship it? Basically, just gush on this ship.

Somewhat ironically, developing a NOTP led me to this OTP: Back when the books were still coming out, I was a Harmony shipper. (Not a crazy one, I swear!) This led to a lot of "discussions" with people who shipped other pairings, but most relevantly with several Sirius/Remus fans who were both extremely disdainful of my noncanon ship and adamant that their ship was, in fact, canon/eventual canon. This led to little Past Me re-reading the PoA and post-PoA books multiple times, trying and failing to see this "proof" of Wolfstar, but in the process paying a lot more attention to pre-Golden Trio characters. "Actually," I thought, "Sirius seems a lot more attached to Harry's dad than to Lupin. Huh." I found myself fascinated by their dynamic, by the hold Sirius' friendship with (and loss of) James had on Sirius, and how much is implied about James that we don't get to see (the Potter lineage, James "maturing," etc). Imagine my disappointment when not only was Sirius/James not popular, but Wolfstar, which didn't appeal to me, was only gaining steam (see: "Wolfstar is canon/eventual canon!"). Shipping wars were more 'maniacal sports fans' than 'political discourse' at the time, but between being deep into then-fandom and not liking Wolfstar, I found myself shipping Sirius/James almost by accident because… Well, it just made so much more sense.

Yes, James is dead before the series actually starts; yes, James marries a woman and has a son; but I've yet to meet a fandom that lets such paltry things as 'canonical facts' stop a ship, and it's always baffled me that Prongsfoot isn't more widely recognized for its potential, if nothing else. I will always believe this stems from a one-two punch of early HP fandom's obsession with canon vs noncanon, Jily being canon, which led to Wolfstar and the subsequent idea that Sirius "belongs" to Remus With the series completed, we have a surprisingly complex character in James, tantalizingly hinted-at if not explored in-depth, and we're given ample on-page examples of Sirius' exceptional qualities as well as his deep attachment to James, who must be exceptional himself to command this kind of devotion and affection. They're the most interesting characters to me, for what we see and what we don't see, and unlike a lot of other pairings they don't require a hammer and chisel to force them into a romantic mold: They're best friends and platonic soulmates, but they could just as easily be romantic partners and the shift feels completely natural. There's an equality and an authenticity to their partnership that I cherish deeply and don't find in a lot of their other ships, which often require them to be OOC… and if a fic doesn't include them as each other's best friend and Most Important Person, I consider it OOC.

In a way, lack of good James/Sirius friendship nudged me towards actual Prongsfoot because other ships de-emphasize the importance of James and Sirius in each others' lives to make the ship work, including outright giving their roles away, ex. someone else being the only person who can rein James in, Sirius running away to [name here] instead of to James. James and Sirius make each other more themselves, for better and for worse, and I honestly believe that they believe it's always for the better: They embrace each other's strengths and weaknesses, love each other for their flaws instead of despite them, support each other even after death (if the memory of James wasn't instrumental in Sirius surviving Azkaban, I'll eat my nonexistent hat). Sirius has so much devotion to James, enough to eat rats and face death for James' son, his godson, who he had a year of knowing before it all went to hell, that I find it hard to believe he had much room for anyone else; and from what we see, that devotion was absolutely reciprocated. Even after marrying Lily, even after Harry, JamesandSirius were such a thing that James' own wife writes to Sirius to say my husband is down and only you can make him feel better, not his wife or child or other friends. They would have buried bodies for each other, and I'd be surprised if that didn't actually happen off-page. What we see of their past makes it clear that they existed together in some rarefied space that would have absolutely continued regardless of who they dated or who they married or where they wound up. I'll always be a little sad that we didn't get more of these two in canon, and I'll always be equal parts frustrated and bewildered that these two are not the Marauder ship, or at least a much much more popular ship than they are.

Over time, the popular depictions of James and Sirius grew increasingly incompatible with the way I saw them, which is generally closer to canon: James is not an idiot jock or an indiscriminate bully (he's very discriminate, thank you) or an abuser, Sirius is not an idiot sex addict or peer-pressured by James into bullying (he's absolutely an active bully of Snape & Co) or there solely to fawn over Remus. This is also where I started to dislike Remus, sorry Remus fans, neither uwu softboi Remus and uberdom alpha Remus are my jam I eventually fell out of fandom in general and didn't think more than the occasional wistful thought until I re-read the books and had that Prongsfoot flame reignited, enough that I started to read HP fic and even write/post stuff again. I'm endlessly grateful for the authors who put such wonderful work out there, and for people who cultivate this little pocket of a fandom that's otherwise become alien to me, as someone who just doesn't get much of New Marauder Fandom and its ATYD influences.

James and Sirius are soulmates and friends-to-lovers and fluff and angst and boyish exuberance and the uncertainty of growing up, they're knowing you're meant to spend your lives together and struggling to exist when your other half is gone, they're sweet domesticity and the darkness of war and Good vs Evil and all the shades of gray, they're loving someone relentlessly and instinctively and maybe unwisely but knowing it's 100% reciprocated, no-strings-attached, because you can't be any other way and wouldn't change that (or them) if you could. There's just so many ways to explore Prongsfoot and all of it works because these boys contain multitudes, and I just want to gather all of it around me like a nesting squirrel and snuggle down amidst the Prongsfoot goodness.

#ProngsfootWeek2023 #Day 1 #prongsfoot #bambibelle #starbucks #james potter #sirius black #james potter x sirius black #sirius black x james potter #i type a lot of words

[doberbutts]

I hate anti-discourse with a passion - it squicks me out these days - but as Fandom Old I have a perspective that seems obvious to me, but seems to get missed by a lot of people.

When I was 15-18 I read adult-minor smut. Mostly Harry Potter/Snape because it titillated me. Then I left fandom space for quite a while during my education before coming back to it as an adult.

Now those self-same fics that I used to really enjoy squick me out. Therefore my conclusion is that the majority of people ready those particular stories put themselves in the position of less power, and most people who get weird about those fics /can't/ see themselves in that position or would hate that position no matter the relationship dynamic, and can't quite separate the fiction of it all from what they are picturing.

I've always been a ship-and-let-ship or kink tomato advocate myself so I guess I am 'pro' but also... want less than nothing to do with it. I had it blacklisted on here for years... but for some reason your recent engagement with it slipped through my filters

I have a different explanation: I think it's normal for a lot of teens to look at adults and see them being adults and want to reach for that themselves and want to be considered adults in their own right, while not realizing that they are still very much children. As a society we put a lot of focus on "when you're an adult" and "when you're 18" and "when you're grown" and "when you're independent" and it's normal for that age group to resent still being grouped in with children because they want the kid gloves to come off already.

The problem with that is that they are, indeed, still children. Whether they like it or not. And I don't really think 18 and 19 are that much different from 17, tbh. I didn't really feel like An Actual Adult until I was closing in on 25. But I did feel like I went from "child" to "adult" overnight in the world's eyes when I hit 18, even though nowadays I do not feel like I was mature enough to be considered legally the same as a 40 year old.

This also is worsened imo by the prevalence of adult actors playing children. The cast of Glee is supposed to be a mixed bag of 13-19 year olds and I don't think a single actor involved was younger than 21. The Harry Potter kids started at the same ages as they were supposed to be, but because the movies didn't release every year, the same thing happened where a bunch of 20+ year olds are playing characters that are supposed to be 17. Vampire Diaries did the same thing. Teen Wolf did the same thing. A lot of media developed for teenagers casts actual grown adults as teens and as characters teens are supposed to find attractive.

To me it's no fucking wonder so many teens are drawn to fan works with less great implications about the age gaps. Do you know how many kids my age thought Brad Pitt and Orlando Bloom were the hottest things they've ever seen? How many girls were squealing over the boys of NSYNC and Backstreet? Teens are encouraged to find adults attractive by our society and a whole bunch of them grow up into adults who look back and go "ooh, big yikes" at the exact same thing when they see current teens doing it.

[consistentsquash]

https://consistentsquash.tumblr.com/post/735968615712653312/favourite-snape-characterisation-in-fanfic This range is genuinely shocking. From outside Snape fandom look like they agree on Snape's characterization unlike Marauders fandom. How are these different headcanons coexisting without discourse friction?

Hiya!!

The actual range in Snape fandom is huge!!! That post is my personal Snape reading range. Lots and lots of great fic with softer/darker Snape characterizations on either side of that range.

My takes as a reader below the cut. YMMV. Also tagging @danpuff-ao3 who knows this fandom inside out, @perverse-idyll who is the best for history <3

Of course Snape fans have pretty strong personal takes on Snape characterization. But folks are probably older on average and more chill? This type of ship is a pretty different vibe compared to other popular ships because of the powerdynamics and age gap. Also a lot of folks probably exhausted forever because Snape fandom OoTP/HBP/DH was pretty intense. Plus Lily. It was the type of intensity which really burned out a lot of folks. Not saying we dont have headcanon wars but like its a different stage of fandom compared to Marauders. I am pretty jealous of the level of activity in Marauders tbh but otoh it can also get exhausting. Snarry/Snape fandom isn't really huge like Marauders. Probably shrinking based on the fandom ship stats. Also a ton of folks are multishippers. Those folks are chill about headcanons because they probably have different dynamics for Snarry/Snack/Snupin/Snamione/other ships.

Tl;dr we have headcanons and stuff. Folks probably dont notice because other ships/fandoms have more activity. It's not really a cult with one standard Snape characterization version. Not saying we don't do cults because Snapewives was a thing :D

Also hard to generalize. Snape multishippers/Snape OTP fandom, Snape het fandom/Snape slash fandom, Snape age gap fandom/Snape peer ship fandom, Snape shipping fandom/Snape gen fandom have some overlaps but also lots of differences. Also the folks interested in the type of Rich Pure Blood Snape before OoTP/folks interested in reading/writing him after OoTP/after HBP/after DH are really pretty different because his character arc had lots of twists.

Maybe check out the Snarry fanlore article to get an idea about that range/history. Also really good info on the history side in this interview from Ellen Fremedon

The only list that I really stayed active on was the Snape slash list, and pretty much I made the transition from Star Trek to Harry Potter when I found the Snape slash list and realized that that was where the grownups were. It — especially at that point in the fandom it was very Balkanized, and the Snape slashers were actually renowned at that point for generally being level-headed and rational grown-ups that it was fun to be around. (laughs) Well, because they were grown-ups who'd been in other fandoms before and who'd come to this out of other fannish communities and knew the fucking social norms and were not a bunch of feral teenagers that had to be socialized. And they also were not heavily invested in shipping wars because they were Snape slashers and they knew that Snape was not going to get a boyfriend in the books. Ever. So, we were not looking for textual validation. (laughs) So, yeah, it was sort of its own little polite, well-mannered, sane — it sounds crazy saying this at this point now, but that's really, yeah, it was where the nice, polite, well-mannered rational grownups hung out when I first got into Harry Potter fandom. (both interviewer and interviewee laugh) Well, remember this was also before any of the movies, so there wasn't the Alan Rickman thing going on yet either.

#asks #asks answered #fandom

[fanfic-lover-girl]

Why like Sirius if both him and James are the same? Sirius being more horrible than James

Sirius and James are not the same. Plus, I sometimes enjoy horrible characters. It just depends on the story and how their positive traits balance out their bad traits.

Let me try to summarize for you anon:

Godfather Sirius

One of the best aspects of Sirius is how much he loves Harry. This man was willing to move heaven and earth for Harry and I admire that. Sure Jamie died for his family but I think Sirius was more impressive. We never saw James as a father and husband. But even with Sirius' limited circumstances, he did the best he could to look out for Harry.

Black family

I find the Black family so fascinating! I think the Black family is the best wizarding family JKR created. The Potters being related to the Peverells made me roll my eyes. I refuse to pay for streaming...but man I would be tempted to watch a series on the Black family!

Show vs tell

We hear how great James is but we hardly ever see it. What we do see are his awful moments. Not Sirius anon. With Sirius, we see his loyalty, passion, care etc. So it's easier to get behind Sirius and defend him.

James Potter is a plot device

James and Lily are ultimately plot devices in Snape and Harry's backstories. James has positive traits but overall James is pretty one-dimensional. Because Sirius is alive, we actually get to know Sirius as a person. The good, the bad and the very ugly.

Jily sucks

The whole Jily romance makes me hate James Potter. Part of me is happy Sirius was not bogged down by JKR's horrible romance drama. The Jily fans who think this ship is healthy and the greatest of all time are just plain delusional.

James stans are annoying

Usually, the most toxic marauders stan posts are about James. I liked James a little when I got into HP...but then the fandom discourse soured me on the guy. Sure, you have the posts defending Sirius in the werewolf prank and I get where they are coming from. Because, yes Sirius never forced Snape to go to the willow. It's still awful though, don't get me wrong. However, James stans will literally say he was justified in sexually harassing Snape. Gross! These people need Jesus!

Sirius has a more complex/interesting character & personality

James is honestly not that special. He's the typical rich jock kid who bullies people because he can. He treats girls like prizes and is rewarded with said girl by doing the absolute bare minimum. And he has his little charity case friends to kiss his backside. James peaked in high school.

Now Sirius has more going on. His complicated relationship with his mom and brother. How even though he rebels against his family, he is still the same bigoted Black who treats those lower than him like dirt. His wrongful imprisonment and how his freedom was robbed from him to the very end. His interesting dynamics with Remus and Peter.

This is it for the most part. Sirius is the best marauder and no one can convince me otherwise!

#anti james potter #james potter #anti marauder stans #anti marauder fandom #sirius black #pro sirius black #godfather sirius black #harry potter series #anon ask #anti jily #jily hate #anti james potter stans #black family

[cheesybadgers]

Shipper Tag Game

Thank you for the tag @thesilversun ❤️

1. What ship were you completely obsessed with when you were a teenager, but now you don't care about anymore? I'm trying to think back to what I was even into as a teen...I read and wrote bandfic around my early to mid teens, but I'm not naming the bands 😂 Beyond that, there was Buffy/Angel from Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Sam/Gene from Life on Mars, Fraser/Ray K from Due South, Sirius/Lupin from Harry Potter. The only one of those I couldn't care less about anymore is the last one...the rest just make me feel nostalgic.

2. Which ship would you consider your first one? I can't even remember?? Probably something like Leia/Han in Star Wars, but I wouldn't have known to call it 'shipping' back then.

3. Your first fanfic was about which couple? It was a reader insert bandfic but I really don't want to talk about that lol.

4. Do you remember the first couple you saw fanart of? No clue at all.

5. Have you ever gotten into ship discourse? No. I avoid stuff I'm not into and don't get why everyone else can't just do the same.

6. Did you use to have any NOTP or have one currently? I used to be less open to multi-shipping involving the same characters when I was younger. Now, depending on characters/circumstances, I'm much more inclined to say throw them all in together and analyse the results lol.

Having said that, I hated what Sense8 did by inserting Dani into Lito's and Hernando's relationship. They could have done poly rep in literally any other way than how they did it, but what actually happened was just weird and creepy.

7. Who were the couple in the last fanfic you read? Carmen/Richie from The Bear. I wasn't even really into it when I first watched the show, but after re-watching with my husband, I needed to scratch an itch I didn't even know I had.

8. Currently, do you have any OTPs? I never used to really think I did, but now, after spending the past 3 years writing a longfic for Javier/Horacio from Narcos, they're always going to hold a very special and unique place in my heart ❤️

9. Is there any couple that, to this day, you are extremely mad about not getting together? Not that I can think of, because in my mind, shipping is largely an entirely different thing to canon. It bears no relevance to the events of canon a lot of the time and fan fic means you can do whatever you want anyway. More often than not, my favourite ships tend to be non-canon, so I treat the two things separately in my brain.

10. Is there any ship you used to dislike but now you think they are kind of interesting? Not dislike, no. More likely never really considered before until a lightbulb switches on in my brain (maybe during a re-watch or if something happens in a new episode) and suddenly, I'm interested.

11. Do you have any ship that, in the past, would've been considered normal but now you would be cancelled over? Don't think I'm important enough to be 'cancelled' lol, but I find shipping in general in fandom has become kind of vanilla and bland. People get really hung up on what is and isn't canon and miss the nuance of messy, complicated relationships and dynamics between characters. They stay away from a lot of rarer pairings and stick closely to the fandom-approved or actor-approved 'purer' ships. A lot of people say they want queer stories and characters, but when they're presented with actual queer sex and desire, the pearl clutching begins. I know this isn't true of all fandoms, but it's a pattern I've noticed over the last few years.

12. What is your favorite crack ship? Lalo/Howard from Better Call Saul.

13. What is the couple you read the most fanfics about? Probably McKirk from AOS Star Trek. I haven't read any for years, but there was a period about 10/11 years ago where I couldn't get enough of them. Stucky from the MCU is probably a close second...and most of that came in the form of fix-it fics after Endgame 😂

14. What do most of your ships usually have in common? Always carrying unresolved trauma, they're usually criminals, often violent/have killed people, always morally grey and they have a shared history with each other that goes back further than canon shows us.

15. What you absolutely hate in a ship? I can't stand love triangles where one party has to pick between two others when the obvious answer is either a) both or b) neither. Not a fan of big age gap relationships (unless they're non-humans and are hundreds/thousands of years old). Or when character A gives up everything for character B, but character B doesn't have to make an equivalent sacrifice (they need to be burning down the world for each other tbh, otherwise what's the point?). Or when the ship is presented as 'forbidden love' but there aren't actually any major obstacles in their way and it's mostly a lot of unnecessary melodrama. Love at first sight doesn't do anything for me either. Lust/obsession? Hell yeah. But I need more slowburn/history before the L word is thrown around.

No pressure tagging: @mariamariquinha, @thoroughlymodernminutia, @ejunkiet, @evilbunnyking and anyone else who wants to answer these!

#Tag games

[astarionbae]

JKR is anti trans and is anti Semitic while we're discussing your dumb banner. I'd be more worried about that than anything else.

You're gross and dumb. Also it's been pointed out to me you whitewashed an OC because you couldn't find any content to your taste apparently.

Nancy is 15-16 when she sleeps with and dates Steve who is 17-18. I'm not sure why you are suddenly clutching your pearls about two teens dating. If it was a twenty year old dating Will, no that's straight up fucked up. I'm pretty sure you and your besties have age gaps that are more outrageous than two teens dating.

Changing sexualities is wrong. It's not one rule for the gays and one rule for the straights. It's one thing thinking something, another ramming it down a person throat like y'all tend to do

Literally why are you speaking for @endless-oc-creations anyways. They can tie their own shoelaces.

Also stop trying to stir trouble for Maddie all the time. Move on.

So you're saying I'm Anti Jewish and Anti Trans just because I like Wizarding World of Harry Potter?? Just because you like something that was made from an ass of a person doesn't mean you agree with their opinions.

It's a stupid, pathetic double standard just to make people feel shitty about themselves.

"whitewashed an oc" : Excuse me while I laugh. Also try new material sometime instead of repeating previous anons like a broken record, hunty.

It's cute you thought I shipped Stancy. I'm a Jancy shipper through and through. While we're on the subject, I also ship Jonathan x Steve. And not that I care, but Nancy was only one year younger than Steve, not four. Also if you knew anything about the Ben Hopper OC, you'd know that he watched Will grow up from a child. That's literally his little brother.

Would you date someone that you watched and helped to grow up from the age of three?? I bet you do. Probably all for that power dynamic. Must get your rocks off.

"Changing sexualities is wrong / ramming it down a person's throat" : WHOSE MAKING YOU READ A BI STEVE FIC? WHOSE MAKING YOU ACTIVELY ENGAGE IN A BI STEVE DISCOURSE? You are literally bringing this onto yourself by participating in the conversation. Just fuckin leave! You have the power of block. And you call me dumb, pft.

And yes, Mimi can tie her shoelaces, have been able to since she was five. Can you tie your shoelaces? Or do you still wear velcro?

Stop trying to stir trouble for Maddie? Ah, there it is. The real reason behind this debate. I haven't even stirred trouble, they do that themselves. When you fuck around, you find out.

#anon bullshit #the level of stupidity is strong with this one #go little anon go

[agerefandom]

Actual DNI Update!

Hi y’all, I’ve gone back and forth on this (some of it publicly on this blog) but in the end I have indeed decided to update my DNI. 

Here is the long version of my DNI, featuring full explanations for each of the items on the list, but I’m mostly just updating my banners. 

The big change is that I’m now asking content policers/antis to not interact with this blog. I feel like ‘anti’ is a very big word that gets used in a lot of different ways, mostly because it’s part of a dichotomy that is more of a sliding scale. 

I completely understand people who are triggered or squicked or uncomfortable with certain tropes, media, topics, or dynamics and need them to be well-tagged. I don’t personally think that ‘anti’ is an accurate way to describe that, but I also understand that it’s a convenient shorthand for some people. That’s a-ok with me.

I would ask you to not interact: 

If you strongly identify with the anti community 

If you believe that all people who engage with problematic media (ie. horror movies, Harry Potter, Frankenstein, Phantom of the Opera, Hetalia, etc.) should be thrown off the internet. 

If you believe that certain plots or dynamics are only written by people who secretly wish to do harm to others. 

I will no longer interact with blogs that have ‘anti-anti’ or ‘proship’ in their DNI, not because I actively identify with these things, but because I feel that I would fall under some people’s definition of those things. 

This will change nothing about the content of this blog: everything will still be tagged, shipping content will still be extremely occasional and background to my agere-focused fanfiction, this is still a strictly sfw space. 

I simply felt that this was an important boundary to establish for my own mental health, as I am tired of seeing people argue about what media is bad enough to merit harassment. 

I’m open to private discussions on this, since it is a complicated line to draw, but I will keep any public discourse at a minimum (as always). If you have any questions, please feel free to connect with me. 

But in the meantime I hope you enjoy my banner re-designs! 

#discourse mention #tw discourse #dni update #tw proship #i'm still managing the transition #so it'll take me a while to unfollow people #i have to decide if i'm going block people and/or delete reblogs too #i'll probably just let it sort itself out by itself #people who are strong enough antis will block me themselves most likely

[chiechie97]

20 Questions

Tagged by the wonderful @practicecourts! Thank you for the tag 💗💗

*

1. How many works do you have on AO3?

10!!!!

2. What's your total AO3 words count?

188,018 which feels insane!!

3. What fandoms do you write for?

Harry Potter (More specifically the Marauders)

4. What are your top 5 fics by kudos?

These Cruel Delights

Stage Lights

Tiny Miracles

Paint Brushes and Spell Books

5. Do you respond to comments? Why or why not?

I always try to!! For me comments encourage me to keep writing and I like to let people know that I appreciate them taking the time to comment on my work.

6. What's the fic you wrote with the angstiest ending?

*Sit's there awkwardly with a pil of unfishinshed fics*

7. What's the fic you wrote with the happiest ending?

Definetly Charred Pineaple Margarita's and a Bagel. One of my fluffier fics and has a cute ending imo

8. Do you get hate on fics?

No thankfully!! I could never imagine hating on an individual fic, if you don't like something just leave. Fandom discourse is a whole other bucket of worms.

9. Do you write smut. If so what kind?

I dooooo or rather I tryyyyyyy. It's pretty regualr run of the mill smut, and it's absolutley plot driven. I want to get better and feel less awkward while writing it!!

10. Do you write crossovers? What's the craziest one you've written?

No i do not. I don't really enjoy cross over personally, borrowing other worlds can be well done thought.

11. Have you ever had a fic stolen?

No I haven't thankfully!!

12. Have you ever had a fic translated?

No but that would be so cool if it was!! I'd love to see These Cruel Delights translated into either French or German once it's done, but my written language skills in both languages aren't good enough.

13. Have you ever cowritten a fic before?

No but i'd be very open to it. It seems like a lot of fun and getting to play off of another authors style would be fascinating.

14. What's your all-time favourite ship?

Jily, duh. 😉

15. What's a WIP you want to finish, but doubt you ever will?

I will finish ALL of my works I'm not putting that energy out into the universe 😭

16. What are your writing strengths?

100% dialogue. I adore writting dialogue, it's so fun and allows you to build relationships and dynamics. I really want to try my hand at a text fic one day because i feel like it's a great way to build a dialogue only fic.

17. What are your writing weaknesses?

description and scene building. I feel Like i haven't captured a way to describe a scene in a natural and flowing manner.

18. Thoughts on writing dialogue in another language for a fic?

I think it can be done so long as it's either translated or feels properly placed.

19. First fandom you wrote for?

Narnia actually, back on the good ol' fanfiction.net as a wee baby teen. (but we don't talk about that one😗)

20. Favourite fic you've ever written?

The Devil In the Cloakroom and These cruel Delights!!! The devil in the cloak room was SO much fun to write and i can't wait to finish it either this week or next <3

I THIIINK everyone has been tagged, but i tag @uncertainwallflower and @tiffanytoms

#i love you for tagging me!!! #20 questions #tag challenge #jily fic rec #self rec #scheduled #time zone schedule

[elijah-terry]

So for me, no media is perfect, it’s all problematic, and there’s a scale for everything - good elements on one side, Problematic or simply not to my taste elements on the other. If the Bad side gets very weighed down with problematic stuff and the good just pales next to it, that for me is irredeemable media (and of course different faults are different amounts of Bad and depends on time of creation and intent and all that). Me liking and talking about something in no way means it’s free of problems, in fact it probably has a ton that I’d be happy to talk about (I’ve seen some shows I love on DNI’s - but not the ones that are on a bunch of people’s DNIs, I mean Rick and Morty or IASIP or Bojack Horseman - where the irredeemable characters are acknowledged as such in the show but it still ends up being irredeemable to people) But, it seems like not many people exist in that in-between space.

On one side, I’ve got skinny friends (I’m fat) who won’t watch a show I recommend because, like every other show in existence, it has fatphobia. (But less than things they’ve recommended or fatphobic jokes they’ve laughed at that made me uncomfortable, and of course when their girlfriend recommended the show later they gave it another chance and liked it :|) Another who won’t watch something that has a female villain without trying to spin that as anti-feminist, who loves game of thrones but thinks I’m twisted for liking resident evil. But then on the other side I have my mom and sister complaining about me not liking Harry Potter anymore “just because I don’t personally like the author” (yes, I’ve explained everything about the author + what’s actually in the books) and coworkers talking about how funny South Park is.

I want to be able to talk about all of the goods and bads of a piece of media without feeling like I’m fighting. I want to be able to tell my sister animals were abused behind the scenes of that movie without her exploding on me and I also want to be able to talk about how I enjoy the psychological dynamics of a show following a group of bad people around as they get up to shenanigans without the other person being like, “wait you watch a show where the main characters are bad people? Why? You must be bad too”.

And I remember when anti debate was big and most antis were normal people who were saying it’s gross to ship kids and adults or romanticize it but there was the occasional person who didn’t seem to understand the difference between representation and romanticization (the distinction that most anti-antis had so much trouble understanding) and would just be anti- any piece of media that had bad people in it, or the protagonists weren’t cut-and-dry and were more complex. Just lack of reading comprehension, I guess but anyway, I feel like all of that debate has died down now and the normal people on both sides realized we mostly agreed with each other but to different degrees on certain topics or whatever, while the extremes of both sides just decided to run loose. They seem so much more pervasive now than they were at the height of the discourse.

ANYWAY just saying I relate to your problem and find it very frustrating from both sides 😪

sorry this took me so long to answer!! I've been having really bad brain problems this week, but yeah I'm glad I'm not the only one

i think things would be easier if people could accept that like. hmm

saying something negative about a show someone likes isn't an attack on their character

but the problem is we've built this culture online where it has become an attack on one's character

media can have stuff you find unsavory or stuff you hate in it. it can make you uncomfortable or upset. it can be triggering. but that doesn't make the person consuming that media automatically bad

in some cases they're consuming it critically. in some cases they're not aware & now they are! etc etc etc

it's like. the trend in literature of being like "hey this book is a Gothic genre novel"

"this book has inappropriate content in it and shouldn't be a gothic genre novel :/"

despite gothic novels historically talking about topics people find upsetting and uncomfortable as a Built In Feature of that genre

(so sorry to ava reid. so sorry this is happening)

in some spaces these conversations get easier and in some it feels like they're just getting harder. i share ur frustrations

#long post #asks #anonymous #sorry again btw. ive been soup for days.

[vryivs]

a list of horrors I have experienced in the atz fic community on twitter

cliques. I don't know how to describe how cliquey it is, but it's genuinely the most intimidating community I've ever tried to join. and it's very easy to tell when you're In or not, because you get completely ignored if you dare speak to someone whose clique you aren't part of

most fucking insane ship discourse you've ever seen. if you don't ship the popular ships you're denying reality. if you do ship them you're boring and uncreative. if you ship them the wrong way you're stupid

the only place I've ever been where people actually care who tops or bottoms. like people straight up will only write one dynamic and refuse to read any other dynamic and eviscerate anyone who doesn't write and read their chosen dynamic

pussy discourse. who should have a pussy. if its fetishism. if trans people have a right to be uncomfortable because it's other trans people writing it

bottom hwa cult. separate to dynamic preferences because the bottom hwa cult are fucking INSANE they will openly act homophobic and display gender essentialism and heterosexism and then the moment someone calls them out they'll threaten to doxx and sic their followers on them while preaching that it's actually the people who are criticising them that are the ones with the stereotyping issue. because in their mind they're breaking a stereotype by making the tall one bottom and see nothing wrong with the fact they're characterising him as hyperfeminine and submissive At All

people are actively encouraged Not to think critically about the content they produce and consume

no content warnings for triggering kinks such as degradation of dubcon, but 'cw: trans character' is one I've seen multiple times

normalisation of degradation to the point they don't realise it Is a kink and think That's Just How Dirty Talk Is and so refuse to cw it

normalisation of dom/sub dynamics to the point they're also not tagged because that's just how sex is (I actually enjoy BDSM stuff sometimes but good lord that's a kink and we tag our kinks here)

theres no easy way to find sfw accs because the whole community refers to itself as nsfw

porn posted regularly and never marked as sensitive

just blatant anti yeosang tweets. for no reason

insulting writers who don't write nsfw while at the same time accusing those same writers of selling out to become popular the second they cave to the pressure and do

fics without smut have such a lacklustre reception than fics that do to the degree multiple authors admit forcing a smut scene in because otherwise people won't read their plot-heavy fic

culture of popular authors with lots of engagement shaming less popular authors with no engagement for wanting comments because "you should write for yourself"

I don't know how to describe it other than "everyone is fake" but someone will say one thing to your face and then something completely contradictory behind your back because it's what the person they're talking about wants to hear

attacking the lone trans fest (also my fest) for not wanting to allow harry potter aus because "I, one specific trans person who is not the moderator who needs to read every fic, have reclaimed it"

and more but this is the worst of it and also the reason why I left

#ateez fic #iv.txt

[ironstrange-is-the-endgame]

As a person who had to leave the Loki fandom due to some extremely toxic behavior, to preserve my sanity and mental health... I'm not at all surprised how they're acting, not much has changed after all. It's kinda sucks when people tell you you're a shitty person for liking something that helped a person get through a hard time. Cause apparently there's a "right" way of liking a character.

The point is that there isn't actually a right way to like a character and some wings of the fandom like to pretend they are the "best" and if you don't like the character like they do, then you have no right to like them in any other way.

I'm not a fandom suuuper old, but I'm 26, I've been in fandoms, (specifically Lost, Harry Potter and Criminal Minds) since I was 6/7 years old. The fandom spaces - especially in Italy because I didn't know English back then - were very different from how they are now. I don't want to make a history class, just know I started to really engage in them and not just consume them when I was 11 or so. And people were different back then! Back in the day, people would discuss the reasons and motivations behind the characters without giving a second thought about ethics and morality, and I miss this. I miss the idea that fandom should not teach you something.

I took a break from fandom when I was around 18 and came back two years later (this time on tumblr, aka most international-based platform) when I started to get into Game of Thrones/ASOIAF. And I was scared, because I wanted to discuss how wonderfully well written is Cersei Lannister, and all I got was people insulting me for liking a character who isn't "morally acceptable" to like. People storming in my inbox and telling me how sick I am for shipping Lannincest because it's not moral. And for fuck's sake, I KNOW! But the point is this, I like these dynamics in fictional works, and I love the bad guys because they represent that part of the world that is usually demonized. Fiction is a way to explore safely something you would never do in real life.

I've been watching Criminal Minds since I was 6 years old. Did I turn into a serial killer? NO! Because I know (and I knew when I was younger) killing people is WRONG even if I enjoy(ed) a show about serial killers. The show doesn't have to teach me that killing people is wrong, it's not its purpose. Its purpose is for people to watch something that might stimulate their thinking or just let them enjoy 45 minutes of BAU people trying to figure out who commit the murderers.

What I mean by this is that, sadly, people are losing this ability to discern between what is acceptable in fiction and what is acceptable in reality and try to move the latter on every piece of media they consume. And this is why, the moment you start to like a character for other reasons than theirs, then they feel the need to tell you how twisted and evil and bad you are as a person, and this is why I tend to keep myself the fuck away from fandom discourse nowadays.

#not tagging this as loki cause it went on all of a different rant #i'm sorry #anonymous #asks

[woundjob]

Alright but I genuinely didn't see power dynamics in wolfstar? Am I missing something? Who's in control lmao... because Remus is 100% of Sirius' self control and I hate going to source material but canonically had difficulty reining James and Sirius in? And there's absolutely no way Sirius is a control freak has anyone met him

I'd agree that they both have trauma... but that doesnt make the ship inherently wrong and it never did and if it does there are a million other ships that need to be canceled

i really admire your dedication here anon but let’s be clear the problem with this argument isn’t that wolfstar is or isn’t problematic, the problem is that there are people who are genuinely worried about wolfstar being problematic.

which is to say, it literally does not matter at all. the people who want to argue about which ships are problematic are people who don’t have anything better to worry about and consider their engagement with *checks notes* harry potter shipping discourse to be the height of online activism, but the reality of this is it really doesn’t matter in the long run. as long as you aren’t engaging with genuinely harmful material like pedo shit and all that then do whatever u want

tldr there are way more important things to worry about lol

#that being said harry potter is genuinely quite bad and u should read another book #i keep my harry potter stuff quarantined to this embarrassingly popular blog for a reason