#his pov is very important because it explains all of his reactions towards wwx when he returns from the dead

[sonik-kun]

"Jiang Cheng would have been involved in the attack on the Burial Mounds even without the death of sister"

For context, this all takes place AFTER JZX was killed. From JC's pov that was all 100% WWX's fault (bear in mind, WWX does have some culpability with his death. He lost control because of his unrestrained resentment for JZX. Sooo).

Was JC not supposed to do anything? Just sit there and twiddle his thumbs? Object to the siege entirely, perhaps? How do you think that would have looked to the rest of the CW? It would have been very suspicious if he didn't take part in eliminating a potential threat to the CW. Especially when said threat was once a part of his sect and KILLED his brother in law. Wouldn't they think it is strange that he refused to take part and get revenge on behalf of his sister??

If he did object or refused to take part, the rest of the CW would have grown even more suspicious of him. And the Jiang sect would have had a huuuuuuge target on their backs next. Especially giving how power hungry the Jins were becoming.

It was a very difficult situation he was put in. Not one he could easily talk his way out of. We've seen him try to numerous times even before things escalated to vouch for WWX and even once for the Wen siblings. And we all saw how that went down. Do you seriously think he could talk his way out of this one? After a sect heir had been slaughtered by his former SiC? Come on now.

All of this is why we see JC desparing so much because he is watching his brother spiral and spiral, and all he can do is watch on helplessly, for it is beyond his power to save him.

WWX kept so much from JC. He sided with the sect that almost wiped out his own and then goes on to inadvertently kill his brother in law. How do you think that must have looked to JC? How JC must have felt?? Let's be real here and look at things from his pov. Because I feel as though some of yall are failing to do so.

To JC, WWX had become unhinged and out of control. But even after the death of JZX, JC still seemed to desperately hold onto hope for his brother. He exclaims when he's holding his dying sister in his arms, "I thought you said you could control it?!"

That says to me that JC had faith in his brother that he could fix all this up until JYL was caught up in it all.

If you look at things from JC's pov, you'll see how bad things looked for WWX. How culpable he appeared throughout it all. And when you take that into consideration and realise that JC doesn't have all the information we as the reader are privileged to have, we can easily see why he came to such a conclusion.

It was either WWX or the lives of hundreds in his sect. JC chose to protect the many. And that doesn't make him a terrible person. Nor does it make him a terrible brother. He did all he could for WWX. But to him, WWX had made his bed, and so he should lay in it.

#canon jiang cheng #jiang cheng #jiang wanyin #mxtx mdzs #mo dao zu shi #mdzs #the untamed #to be clear im not bashing wwx here #i obviously know he isnt 100% culpabale and was a victim in all this too #but failing to see jc as a victim in the whole mess is just failing to understand him and the plot im sorry #his pov is very important because it explains all of his reactions towards wwx when he returns from the dead #these highly crtical jc posts always seem to lack any context on regards to his character #and i think it's very disingenuous to withold the details in his character assessments #plus its doing the character a huge disservice #jc loved wwx and wwx loved jc #thats why the events in the book destroyed them so much and why jc found it difficult to let wwx go #stop taking away all these facts away from him just to spread your anti jc agenda #it's annoying and disingenuous af

[ouyangzizhensdad]

The Mo Village arc and establishing the MC

MDZS is a sprawling book with many characters, but it seems that it was clearly important to MXTX to establish her MC’s characterisation very strongly from the start. Although the novel in its entirety leans toward providing a strong characterisation for WWX, I thought it’d be fun to look back at how it is conveyed to the readers in the first few chapters before the inciting incident at Dafan Mountain

(N.B. I’m using a composite translation made of different translations so the wording/format might be slightly different than the version you are using)

Framing

The prologue starts with a conversation between unnamed characters in an inn, discussing the news of WWX’s death. While it was a clever way to already introduce an important theme of the novel (the effects of public opinion and how easy it is to make someone into a irredeemable villain) and get the exposition out of the way, it also frames WWX as a character: as readers, we are introduced first to perceptions of him, a characterisation-from-hearsay we’ll be able to compare to his characterisation in the novel. WWX is a “scourge” whose death is celebrated, who “defected” and bit the hand that fed him, a “deranged” killer who took thousands of lives. But before he went on the crooked path, he was a promising youth--although others seem to think he was corrupted from the start.

“But it can’t all be blamed on the path he cultivated. Ultimately, it was still because this Wei Wuxian’s moral character was too flawed, angering the Heavens and man alike! By the heavenly law, everyone answers for their deeds in the end, good and evil……”

The rumours also suggest that if WWX comes back to the world of the living he will enact his revenge upon them all, and his unimaginable powers would allow him to rain fury upon both Heaven and Earth. We get told: this guys is an incredibly powerful villain, reviled and feared by many. 

But the Yiling Laozu had enough power to overturn the Heavens and smother the Earth, move mountains and drain seas—at least, that was the way the rumors went. If he wanted to resist the summoning of his soul, it wouldn’t exactly be outside of his abilities. If in coming days his spirit were restored, if he forcibly possessed a body and were thus reborn, then not only the cultivation world, but all of humanity would inevitably meet with an even greater frenzy of vengeance and curses, sinking into a chaotic age of foul winds and bloody rains.

Establishing WWX and how he reacts when he’s thrown into an unpleasant situation

When WWX is brought back by MXY, we already have something to contrast him against thanks to the hearsay and rumours, and from the get-go we get a sense that WWX is not this fearsome figure that people made him out to be.

I’ll never get over the fact that our first introduction to WWX’s is the equivalent of the “the audacity of this bitch”.

Hazily, he thought: that’s quite a lot of courage you must have to kick this Laozu. 

Our MC and POV character is thrown into a situation, and from his reactions we can rapidly tell that he is someone who is observant, resourceful, good at deductive reasoning and thereby apt at solving mysteries. This is something that is reinforced at many, many points in the first few chapters and helps us buy in into what happens later in the novel when they uncover many other mysteries. WWX is a guy who figures shit out.

When WWX figures out he was summoned as a “an unforgivably evil malicious spirit“, we  get his take on his public perception.  

Wei Wuxian reeled at the implications. How had he been classified as “an irredeemly evil, malicious spirit”?

Yes, his reputation was rather poor and his final moments, horrifying tragic—but he had neither haunted nor had he seeked revenge on the living since becoming a spirit. He would dare to swear upon the Heavens and the Earth that you would never find a more peaceful and well-behaved lonely soul of a wild ghost!

At the same time, readers get a sense that even when he’s dealt a bad hand, WWX does not wait in despair for his luck to turn. Even though WWX describes his situation as “hopeless” and keeps “repeating over and over How could this be! in his heart “, he immediately goes into problem-solving mode, trying to figure out the situation and the wishes MXY forgot to share. This also happens  later. 

There was not a single thing to help him find some joy in being reborn! He might as well sit and meditate for a time, and adjust to the new body.

That same passage gives us a sense that WWX is not rushing into situations without taking the time to take it in, make up his mind and prepare as much as he can: the fact that we see him do meditation twice during that day (before he goes to the East Hall and after he checks on the Lan juniors) also contributes to that idea.

The chapters convey as well that WWX is sympathetic to MXY’s situation and does not resent him even though he forced WWX to enact revenge in his stead. As readers, we thus receive the following message: WWX is not prone to being resentful, to hold grudges.

He had originally wanted to wash his face and pay a few respects to the owner of this body, but there was no water in the shack—neither for drinking nor for washing. 

WWX is also, for a lack of a better word, sassy. It’s clear that he has a flair for the dramatics and lots of attitude. Look at that dramatic entrance.... he just.... yeets the bowl he was holding....

He pondered for a moment. Then, rising to his feet, he kicked the door open.

The two servants, in the midst of making eyes at each other, screamed in horror as the double doors of the shack suddenly burst open. Wei Wuxian threw aside his bowl and chopsticks and walked outside without anyone’s leave [...]

We are also introduced to the fact that WWX does not seem to take himself seriously and loves to shock people. 

When it came to wild displays of misbehavior, Wei Wuxian was a master. In the past when he ran wild, he still had to mind appearances lest others accuse him of having not been raised right. But now that he was a lunatic anyways, what face did he need! He could go straight to making a scene, acting however it pleased him.

While WWX is clearly not the one-dimensional evil monster depicted in rumours, we do see that he can be cunning: he lies easily if he feels it motivated, he is very good at talking people into a corner, apt at making them do incriminating things by leading them on, which he does by humiliating the Mo family for their mistreatment of MXY in front of a crowd. But in a way, that is also a quality of his: he is not just silver-tongued; he’s good at assessing a situation and people’s characters, able to figure out what will set them off.

We further get proof that he is not a blood-thirsty monster who disregards others when he tries to figure out if he can satisfy MXY’s spirit without having to wipe out the Mo family (although it is clearly the obvious solution) and when he is shown to care for the well-being of others. This is illustrated by the way he double-checks (through ruse) that the zhaoyin flags are properly set up and will be used safely by the Lan juniors. 

During the conversation, Wei Wuxian had already finished making a rapid examination of the Yin Summoning Flag in his hand. It had been painted in the correct manner, and there were no missing sigils either. There was not a single error or omission, so they should worked as intended. That being said, the person who had painted the flag lacked experience, and the painted sigils could only attract the evil spirits and walking corpses within at most five li. That should however prove to be enough. (chapter 2)

[...]

Wei Wuxian’s first thought was that something had gone wrong with the flag arraw the youth had set up. His inventions needed to be used with extreme caution, or else risk disaster. This was also why he had gone to check earlier if there were anything wrong with the array. (Chapter 3)

As our POV character, WWX comes across as endearing through little details: it’s in the way he calls LSZ a “good little seedling (好苗子)” and calls the Lan juniors a group of “小朋友“ in his inner monologue, or when he defends the Lan juniors from Mo-furen’s accusations. Or the way he likes Xiao Pingguo because it looks at him with contempt:

A donkey was tied to the handle, chewing on it. When it saw Wei Wuxian run over rashly, it seemed like it was surprised, and eyed him sideways as if it were a real person. Wei Wuxian made eye contact with him for one second and was immediately touched by the minuscule amount of contempt in its eyes.

Establishing how WWX acts in high-pressure situations

Things escalate quite quickly into accusations of murder and death and resentful corpses. This first sequence is thus our introduction to how WWX acts under pressure and in high-risk situations (which will continue to happen to our MC until the end of the novel). 

WWX is shown to be cool under pressure and quick to think on his feet, constantly re-assessing the situation and the risks. He is also seen as expecting people to arrive to conclusions without him needing to explain them out loud, like when he takes out the zhaoyin flag that MZY stole from his corpse, letting the Lan juniors understand on their own what happened. When he needs to explain, he will not do it in a straight-forward manner, giving small hints first (this preludes many of WWX and LWJ interaction when they understand each other’s thought process with only one sentence being said, and preludes how WWX will continue to act with the Juniors later on, making them think through the situations instead of feeding them the answers).

We also get the proof that WWX does not privilege self-preservation over the fate of others.

If he wanted to avoid having the situation get out of hand, Wei Wuxian should retreat. If they people who came did not know him, then all would be well—but if they happened to be someone who had dealt with him or fought against him in the past, it would be hard to guess what would happen next.

But the curse meant he could not leave Mo Village yet. As well, the spirit that had been summoned had taken two lives in quick succession, meaning it was extremely vicious. If Wei Wuxian left now, once the reinforcement arrived, the streets of Mo Village might already be packed with corpses missing their left arm, of which some would be blood relations of the GusuLanShi. 

After a short deliberation, Wei Wuxian thought, fight a quick battle to force a swift resolution (速战速决). (Chapter 3)

[...]

Wei Wuxian was watching the battle attentively. His tongue was slightly curled, suppressing a sharp whistle inside of his lips, preparing it to be let out. The whistle would be able to evoke even more hostility in the cruel corpses, which might turn the tables. Then, however, it would be difficult to ensure that nobody knew that it was his doing. 

In the blink of an eye, the hand moved like lightning, ruthlessly and precisely breaking Madame Mo’s neck. Watching as the Mo family grew closer to defeat, Wei Wuxian prepared to blow the whistle that he suppressed under his tongue. At the same time, the echoes of two strums on a stringed instrument came from far away. (chapter 4)

As well, we are told something about WWX when he only leaves once LWJ arrives: certainly because he’s afraid that LWJ might recognize him but mostly because (as it will become clear later on) he trusts that LWJ will be able to handle the situation in his stead. In order words, although WWX is willing to risk himself to help others, he is not careless with his life and safety (for instance he makes sure to destroy the proof of the Offering ritual before fleeing to make sure no one can figure out the fact that he is back from the dead).

WWX will not hesitate to fool people or pretend in order to help his goals. In this case, he is trying to help and fight without appearing like a powerful cultivator who can do modao, balancing self-preservation with the incentive to protect the people present. This is why he pushes LJY in front of LSZ at one point in the battle, instead of blocking it himself, while pretending to just be a lunatic doing lunatic things.

Inside of the Lan clan’s uniform jacket, there were compact stitchings of incantations using thin threads of the same color, included for protection. However, against strong ones like this, it could only be used once before it became invalid. During the emergency, he could only kick Lan Jingyi and use his body to protect Lan Sizhui’s neck.

This sequence also allows the reader to know more about modao and WWX’s skills, and how he can control corpses, as well as how WWX perceives his own abilities. 

TLDR:

The Mo Village arc, in conjunction with the prologue, competently sets up a lot of the moving pieces for the novel. It also leans heavily toward establishing a strong sense of characterisation for our MC and POV character, which is neat! 

NB: I think it’s also very telling that the next chapter after the Mo Mansion arc begins with us learning that WWX has been, in the past few days since his retreat, lorded over by a capricious donkey. WWX is clearly not someone who takes himself very seriously (often mocking himself):

The donkey ran over there and nothing could make it leave. Wei Wuxian hopped down and slapped its honoured buttocks. “You’re definitely destined for wealth, even harder to please than I am.” The donkey spat at him.

#mdzs meta #i kind of hate to call this meta because it's not uh very deep lmao #wwx #wei wuxian

[somepinkthing]

So here's my take on the JGY vs NMJ question. And fair warning, it is a bit harsh to both of them but particularly to JGY because a) this post was originally just about him and b)... well.... all the cold-blooded murder.... and stuff

I'll be honest, both NMJ and JGY are way too extreme and unwilling to budge or listen imo. But if pushed, I would say NMJ is the less extreme one. NMJ is less extreme than JGY just based on what he asks of people. NMJ expects honesty and for people to own up to their actions. He takes it too far but you can still understand the basis of his thinking. JGY wants people to excuse his tendency towards murder because of what he felt at that moment. A little harder to swallow

NMJ's problem isn't that he's wrong but that he doesn't know how to mitigate himself enough to listen to JGY or take in other factors. He doesn't know how to explain his own reasoning back either. He is on the side of justice and ideals, almost naively so. He doesn't hear what other people are saying, doesn't see that reasons are important even if they aren't excuses. He needed to be more empathetic but that doesn't neccesarily mean he should have changed his opinion. Right theory, wrong approach. It's good to have a strong sense of justice but less good to let it overtake your rationality and ability to hear what others are saying

On the other hand, fandom tends to paint JGY as mild in comparison. Like this guy isn't one extreme or the other. He was just in the middle. I wholeheartedly disagree. JGY is the other end of the spectrum. Ideals and morals don't exist so he'll just do anything he wants. As long as his reason makes sense to him, it should make sense to everyone as long as he's given the chance to explain. Anyone who refuses to see his side is either being naive or arrogant. In that sense he is equally as unwilling to understand other people's emotions as NMJ was. JGY is a character that facinates me both with how well he's written and the varying reactions he draws from people. But sometimes its hard to find sympathy for him. Tbh he's off the rails and a bit delusional

And the truth is, neither of them could have changed these things about each other. There is only so much one person can do to change another. Did LXC's pleas reach either of them? Did NHS's? Did Qin Su or Su She's love change JGY? It made an impact, sure, but ultimately it was up to the two of them to do something about it. And while we acknowledge that NMJ was didn't think about JGY's point of view, I'd argue JGY was just as bad. He just could not understand why no one would show him the sympathy he thought he deserved, why NMJ would be angry at him for doing the things he did. In his mind, the world somehow owed him something and he refused to see it any other way. He could consider other people's point of view but he was just as bad as NMJ when it came to truly understanding

Do I think NMJ could have taken some time to understand nuances? Explained his own reasoning better? Oh absolutely. NMJ could have taken a step back on multiple occasions. But ultimately, he was also right. Or at least not wrong. The fact that he didn't approach the accusations he made correctly does not mean JGY is somehow the sympathetic party. Don't get me wrong, I hear what JGY was saying. I agree that there are things that people born into comfort and power wouldn't understand about the other side. That there are some things people feel they have to do because of their lack of security. But there are also some very basic hard truths that exist for everyone that JGY seems to think doesn't apply to him. You don't turn to premeditated murder when life gets unfair. You don't get a free pass on everything just because you did it for your dad. Desperation is not an excuse for abandoning morality. Or for murder. JGY should not have killed that jin guy. He should not have stabbed someone trying to help him. He should have taken at least partial responsibility for xue yang, at least enough to speak up and stop his father from allowing XY to escape or not helping him do it. But he'll never see it that way. In his mind, he never had a choice. In his mind, to choose to do the right thing is never an option. In his mind, people only don't understand his reasoning because they are arrogant and look down on him. The idea that he'd sound insane to literally anyone, that his motives are beyond the point of comprehension, doesn't truly register with him. To the bitter end he somehow believed LXC owed him love and understanding. To the bitter end he was unable to see why he would horrify people

Even people empathetic to JGY were disgusted by him in the end. WWX, LXC, NHS, LWJ, JL--all of them saw his POV but they still knew. In the end, there are things that you can do for recognition and to make yourself feel better and there are things that you can't. Lines are crossed by pretty much every character but JGY shatters the line between morality and monstrous with alarming regularity purely for his own gain and, here's the kicker, with no intention to stop. Because JGY doesn't truly consider other people's point of view either nor does he think he was completely wrong. If NMJ is one extreme, JGY is just the other side of the same coin. JGY didn't listen to others, didn't really try to understand how his crimes affected others, and wouldn't consider that he was in the wrong even despite knowing how despicable his actions were. He says he knows he was but the way he acted in the end showed that he still thought that his reasons were sound. That at least he had a reason. That's what made him especially dangerous imo

#jin guangyao #jgy #meng yao #my #nie mingjue #nmj #chifeng zun #lianfang zun #meta #my opinion #mdzs #mo dao zu shi #the grandmaster of demonic cultivation #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #gdc #founder of diabloism #the untamed #cql #mdzs meta