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whereconfusionisarhyme · 8 months

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okay the way the fandom draws hobie brown is such an interesting indication into the way subconscious racial stereotypes play into characterization and it's,,,it's just interesting.

now, i spend A Lot of time in this fandom. and something i've noticed a lot of is hobie brown being drawn HUGE. like, they're making mans into a TANK. and he's just,,,not that??

like yeah, he has broad shoulders, and he's tall, but that's literally just most any black teen boy let's be honest. if you look at his actual canonical character design, he is LANKY. and yet everyone is drawing him super buff. now at first i didn't think much of it--people like buff men, and fanartists are always gonna take some liberties (honestly, i love when they put their special little twists on the characters). but as i saw it more and more, it bothered me more and more and felt a lot more indicative of some underlying biases within the fandom.

hobie being mischaracterized and stereotyped isn't shocking or new, but that mischaracterization leaking into physical depictions of him is! not to get too deep into it, but throughout american history*, black men have not been able to protect their loved ones in any way other than physical thanks to slavery and horrid mistreatment within an inherently racist system. thus gave birth to the trope of the big, aggressive black man who solves his problems with his twists. and after that, the big aggressive black man who is actually a sweetheart on the inside, but just has raging anger issues (and probably an abusive father as well).

*im aware that movie!hobie is not american and that not the entire fandom is either, but seeing as a large chunk of it is, and are going to be viewing hobie through an american lense, i think this is an appropriate connection to make. also, african slavery was very much a thing outside of america as well. also ALSO, the rest of the worlds perception of black men is affected by american (and english) views just because of how huge the two countries are within the global landscape.

now, the reason this was even bothering me at all in the first place is because when i first watched the movie, the fact that hobie wasn't overly muscular was super novel to me. i was glad that we got to see a black male character who was strong without taking strength from others, loud without obnoxiously talking over others, violent without being aggressive, assertive without being framed as forgetting this place or naive about the world. in terms of personal experience, it pisses me just that bit more than the last time whenever i hear my father insist to my (very sensitive and emotional) brother that the proper way to deal with any and every problem was by fighting. i was glad my brother (severely lacking in good black male role models) got to see this cool guy, someone you're meant to look up to, who is strong without being ripped and punching all of his problems. that black masculinity is more than how well you can fight.

so, the way a lot of the fandom forces hobie into this box, this preconceived idea of what a black man (or boy, more like, but the erasure of childhood from black kids is a topic all its own) should be, just. sits wrong.

#i have these kind of analytical thoughts about fanart depictions concerning all of the main four btw #so tell me if you wanna see me ramble about why miles doesnt get this same treatment despite also being a black boy #or why pavitr is chronically de-buffed (its not *just* cause hes asian)#when az rambles #across the spiderverse #spiderman atsv #atsv #hobie brown #hobie brown analysis #atsv analysis #fandom analysis

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b33viemm · 9 months

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analysis on hobie's am pm comments (I'm not British)

I keep thinking about this. So when Hobie says "Hate the AM, hate the PM." in his introduction, he means the Prime Minister (PM). AM could be there for numerous reasons. It could be a throwaway line, maybe it's there to make that sentence less overtly political, allowing plausible deniability on if he's talking about hating the Prime Minister (although Pav talking about how the British stole their stuff might make this null because that's pretty hard to deny), or maybe he just hates all times of the day equally.

Shift your focus. In my head, when I first heard the AM PM comments Hobie made during the movie, I thought the serious line was AM, not PM, since I didn't know that stood for Prime Minister. I've only just recently learned this. When I thought about it more after watching the movie, I felt like he was referencing capitalism and toxic work culture. How our lives are so shaped around our work, and, if we get a bit more literal, how people have to get up so early to go to work/school and how unhealthy it actually is. Reminded me of something I heard once, "You don't hate Mondays, you hate capitalism". After learning about the PM comment, I still think it fits really well. I'm not great at deep analysis so sorry if I didn't explain/expand upon this very well but it made a lot of sense to me and it still does. Even if this line was unintentional or not meant to be taken seriously, I feel it adds more depth and makes it more interesting.

#if someone knows where the dont hate Mondays quote came from #please tell me #i have absolutely no idea where i remember it from #maybe it was referencing fucking garfield #are any of my followers even interested in this lmfao #spiderman atsv #atsv analysis #spiderverse analysis #hobie brown analysis #atsv spoilers #spiderman atsv spoilers #capitalism #across the spiderverse #hobie brown #hobart brown

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idkyyyet · 11 months

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bro i luv spider-punk but i specifically wanna talk about his hair

[image description: a gif from Across the Spider-verse of Hobie, without his mask, saying: "I was this cool the whole time." End image description]

he. has. wicks!!!

the origin of wick dreadlocks is florida usa, and are named due to the resemblance to a "candle wick" because of how they stick straight up and/or out!

now, wicks have a bad reputation even within the loc community.

its already known that like if you got dreads, generally, ppl think u are unkempt, and dirty, and things of that nature, but there is even more discrimination against wicks its unreal. like legit yall i cant even begin to explain the nasty shit ppl say about them because i will be sad.

its kinda just considered the "crazy Florida man hairstyle". and a lot of the hate is due to the fact that wicks, appear "unkempt" or things of that nature

there has been a lot of texturism in the loc community which has brought with it the idea that dreads need to be retwisted to be "properly" taken care of, and need to be flat on your head and all these other things that often bring with it the need to hide your natural hair. i get unsolicited advice on my hair all the time telling me "i need a retwist" because of the belief that black hair needs to be all tidy and stuff to be respected.

but the thing is, dreads aren't meant to be all neat and tidy all the time y'know. its black hair in one of its most natural forms. and who better to showcase that than hobie brown, spider punk?

wicks kinda go against everything that dreads are "supposed" to be and "supposed" to look like.

i just love everything about this movie but i especially wanted to like talk about this hair choice. hair most def has meaning, especially black hair, so i think this was a really cool and fitting design choice for his character and everything he represents.

(i did my best to like articulate my thoughts but hopefully this makes at least a bit a sense)

#across the spiderverse #into the spider verse #spider punk #hobie brown #he is soo fucking cool #media analysis #kinda..#dreadlocks #flashing lights #eyestrain

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the-cat-and-the-birdie · 10 months

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I talked about this in another post but something SO VISUALLY INTERESTING I realized about Hobie's final scene in ATSV.

Beginning with Miles' line 'My dad is about to be captain.'

The group - Gwen, Jess, Peter, and Hobie are all standing behind Miles as he faces Miguel.

But from this point forward, every time Hobie is portrayed, he is shown as separate from the other characters, always being divided from the group - with Miles as the divider.

Even as the camera moves and more Spider-people join the scene, Hobie visually remains - quite literally - as the only person in Miles' corner. And as the scene goes on, he moves farther and farther into that corner.

Until finally the scene comes to a climax, and Hobie gets two shots to himself - delivering his final lines.

"Here we go." - "Hobie, You're not helping." - "Good."

This is Hobie seeing his work pay off. This is him knowing that he got through to Miles and that it was worth it. He's proud of him.

When he says ‘Good,’ he’s not looking at Jess. Because he’s not talking to her, not really. He’s looking to Miles. He’s telling him this is good.

For the entirety of the scene leading up to Miles being trapped, Hobie is shown as the only one literally on Miles' side, until finally in the last moments he is the only one to help Miles escape when he truly needs it.

Even in his final moments on screen the art team decided to show us that Hobie is the realest one in the room thats SO FUCKING CLEVER.

#hobie brown #spiderpunk #spider punk #atsv analysis #spiderman #across the spiderverse #miles morales #gwen stacy #jessica drew #miguel o'hara #spiderman 2099 #spidergwen #spiderwoman #spider woman

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hobiesdump · 4 months

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How are you even cooler under your mask?

First taking off the mask

Noticing Miles looking (this is the peak frame of the "wink") to final frame before Miles says it

The first frame and 3 after Miles says it

In summary~

Hobie's so upset to be going into the spiders' den without clear allies and then Miles thinks he's cool and he just lights up and it's so adorable

Click here for my extended flowerpunk head canon version

#hobie brown #flowerpunk #source #screenshots #so cute #atsv #he's looking at miles #scene analysis #my posts

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shuinami · 9 months

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Jess and Hobie: their defining strengths + their weaknesses

I had a thought about Hobie while I was writing, have been thinking about Jess for a while and then this post about Miguel came out and it made me kind of want to yap. I'll only talk about Hobie and Jessica here because I'm biased + Peter & Gwen have been talked about a lot + I linked a post about Miguel + Miles & Pav have simpler, more obvious flaws that basically come down to youthful naivety.

I also find it really interesting that their flaws are basically opposites, Hobie's comes from "inconsistency" whilst Jessica's comes from stubbornness. And again, both these flaws come from their greatest strengths.

TL;dr

Jess' defining strength is her resolve when it comes to fighting for what's right and tussling with destiny but it causes her to have a one-track mind, even if it comes to dedicating herself to something wrong (from being misguided).

Hobie's defining strength is his optimism (e.g. anarcho-communism) but the extreme difficulty of pursuing those ideals and the struggle against systems can bring that optimism to a breaking point, causing him to be inconsistent or, more directly, to give up.

I think people forget that Jessica's pregnancy is by design and not just a 'feature' of Jessica Drew as a character. She was deliberately chosen to be represented in this stage of her life and I think it is so important to her character, even if it's not in the traditional way that pregnancy is typically portrayed as in media.

I think her pregnancy shows the kind of person she is: most obviously, it's cold, hard evidence that she's a bamf who takes care of spidey business even while pregnant.

More importantly to me, though, there's an implication that, as her universe's one and only spidey, she has been the one to save the day and been the change she wishes to seek, effectively enough that she feels comfortable bringing a baby into the world.

Unlike someone like Peter, she does not make the choice between bringing her child to work with her or leaving them behind. She just has to do what she needs to do to make sure her kid is safe, there's no failing for her. During her pregnancy, it's always going to be a matter of life and death. Jess is well aware and, instead of shying away from action, she's just committed to not making those kinds of mistakes. To get over her losses. She's going to take charge of her own world's destiny as she has always done and she's going to make sure it's good.

Her strong allegiance to Miguel's ideas is her most glaring flaw to us as an audience because A. we're seeing things through Miles' eyes, she's standing in the way of him saving his father and B. we know that Miguel can't be right about canon events - we know they wouldn't make the movies as bleak as that.

Of course, taking a step back from our perspective, it's also a flaw because she is being antagonistic to a teenager as a grown adult. It might make her seem cold and harsh.

However, Jess was the one to vouch for Gwen, to take her in, even though Miguel didn't want her to and they could have left things up to the web of destiny. Jess trusts her own capabilities but she doesn't trust the world to be kind. She doesn't assume Gwen can handle things just because she can, either. On top of being sympathetic, I think her dedication to being the change she wishes to see is why she accepts Gwen as a student; she trusts that a young girl can make the world a better place too, it's not a thing where she wants to micromanage everything. She just wants to know the multiverse is in safe hands. That's her "great responsibility".

The only reason she is following the anti-Miles agenda is because Miles, as far as she and anybody else in-movie knows, is jeopardising the existence of every universe (insidiously via the holes). Maybe, in another position, say, a bright-eyed teen who mainly worried about high school and puppy love, she would be more willing to risk things, to see how it goes.

She's not in that position though. Her world that she felt confident she had the power to keep safe has been made uncertain. One day, it could just go poof, along with her baby, and she wouldn't be able to stop it in the moment. If she makes the right decision now, if she doesn't make a mistake, she can prevent it. It's understandable that she's going to do whatever it takes to prevent anomalies.

What was the canon event chosen to represent her?

Her version of the moment from "The Final Chapter".

It comes from a story that largely focuses on Peter's personal life before spiralling into action to make up for a mistake that has made Aunt May fatally ill. In the panel, Spider-Man is trapped under machinery with the cure - the thing that will absolve the mistake - just out of reach. As the lair is flooded, drowning is imminent.

Against all odds, though, Spider-Man pushes past what should have killed him and rises to the occasion, with the thoughts of saving Aunt May and refusing to have a repeat of Uncle Ben.

"I won't fail you. No matter what - I won't fail."

Jess has had to handle her own fate as well as her world's. Now that the multiverse is involved, it's not going to stop at her own universe. She has to stop this. She won't fail. As per the dialogue between her and Gwen in ATSV, she's made a mistake before (by getting too close to someone) but she tells Gwen "I got over it". Sounds so savage in the moment but she still gives Gwen a chance to make her own situation right before letting her get kicked off the team. Helping Gwen in spite of the anomaly would be a mistake if she couldn't handle this.

And when the Spot gets away and Miles enters the picture? The gloves come off. It's tempting fate at that point. Jess' no mistakes mindset pushes her to even prepare to roll up on a teenager.*

Her greatest strength is her resolve - I mean, hell, she doesn't let even pregnancy slow her down when it comes to saving the world - but it causes her to be stubborn and leads her down a misguided path.

*By the end of the film, she seems to be questioning Miguel's method, though. On top of the fact that BTSV is obviously going to end on a good note, I think Jess' fight against destiny is going to have her come around in the end as Miles is doing the same thing.

Onto Hobie:

I luv luv luv Hobie as much as everyone else, he's definitely my favourite but I feel he has his flaws too (which tend to make me love my faves more lol).

In fact, I think he says what they are when we first meet him, though they are veiled as jokes.

I find that the audience tends to position him as a perfect distillation of anarcho-communism at its best. I think the teen spideys see him in a similar light; they see him as effortlessly cool & charismatic, a wise mentor figure ("use your palms" + his play fighting with Pavitr featured him taking on the stance of a boxing trainer as Pavitr tried to punch his palms) but he's not like the adult adults - he's relatable, he's cool, he's anarchist, he's not always on their case like Jess and Miguel.

He neither calls himself a hero nor a role model... but he is the perfect hero and role model, right? He's the best! He's the only one who's looking out for Miles and, when Miles is getting chased down by the entire society, what does he do?

He... quits.

Wouldn't that perfect hero we all believe him to be swoop in with his cape, know exactly what to do and save Miles, the underdog? He can't have possibly known Miles would manage against the society and, if he knew it was possible, then why wouldn't he lend a hand? He didn't drop off the watch in Miles' dimension, he gave one to his bestie, Gwen, likely in the scenario that she wanted to quit or got booted because 'it [didn't] work out'.**

I think Hobie's major flaw is his lack of consistency, as he famously said himself.

He has a strong moral code - he believes in the right things for the right reasons... but communism and anarchy are pretty much impossible to properly/entirely employ in a system that is consumerist, capitalist and authoritarian. He riots, he fights, but it's never over. London isn't free. In my experience, people with strong moral compasses tend to have issues with themselves because they hold others to higher standards than most and hold themselves to even higher and impossible standards (think Diane from Bojack Horseman).

One of the first comic panels I encountered of Hobie was him getting real with Captain Anarchy about losing morale because, despite killing President Ozzy Osborne, the face of fascism in his dystopia, nothing changes. He wasn't able to save the world like a hero in a movie or like a proper role model. He 'failed'. When you give your everything and nothing changes, no matter how optimistic, clever or read-up on theory you are, it can be hard to keep going.

And what is chosen as his defining canon event?

His version of Spider-Man quitting in "Spider-Man No More". Rather than being fed up with the world antagonising him as 616 is, Hobie is done with an antagonistic world.

The Hobie/Spider-Punk that has been built up externally, as far as I understand, would never give up. He'd keep raging forever and ever because that's the cool thing to do, because it's the heroic thing to do - because it's the right thing to do.

But under the mask, he's just a teenager, imperfect as any other.

He's still a Spider-Man too. Before the bite, he was another lanky black boy in racist-af, peak National Front, send-the-blacks-and-the-Asians-back, '70s England. He's a nerd, as evidenced by his ability to build such a high-tech watch, especially as a teenager who wouldn't have had access to anything like it until joining the society, meaning he had to pick it up quick. And I'm to think he didn't have any Flash-esque characters in his life? "Come out of it."

As Spider-Man with the mask on, he yells to the rooftops; as Hobie with the mask off, he mumbles and whispers. Sure he looks cool now but people don't tend to come out of the womb as Spider-Punk. On top of that, he's still so young and surely has plenty of room to grow.

I believe he joined the society in earnest, optimistic that he could help the multiverse but eventually reached his limits with actively facilitating death and trauma, with saving the multiverse not meaning freedom in his own universe, with being shackled to the web of destiny. I'm not convinced he made the watch in one day; I think he had been planning on quitting for some time and was waiting for the right moment (as he also wanted to support Gwen because friendship is important to him). That's why he tries to dissuade Miles from joining but, when he does leave, he doesn't go out in a riot, he doesn't even leave knowing that Miles has people on his side other than him. Hobie just quits.

I think his greatest strength is his optimism (his anarcho-communism & adamance about "love, joy and freedom" as per the un-permitted performance art pieces in his montage) but he's smart and he's been through shit - he isn't naive like Pavitr or Miles - the great heights of that optimism lead to intensely low lows.

**(I don't really see why or how he would have been able to predict everything that happened in the chase. I know that the watch is set to 1610 but if Hobie believed Miles would make it out of 928 and get back to 1610, would that not be things 'working out'? Or did he predict that he would get to the go-home machine but was the only one who considered that he would be sent to the place his spider came from. Why? And why wouldn't he set the watch to 42 if he knew Miles wouldn't be in 1610? I feel like the 1610 on the interface is just there to be there and that Hobie gave Gwen the watch so she could have the freedom to leave 65 if she wanted to, in the event that she quit the society because they captured Miles or because Miguel kicked her out as Jess kept warning.)

#i luv them #atsv spoilers #across the spiderverse spoilers #across the spiderverse #jessica drew #atsv jessica #hobie brown #spider punk #atsv analysis #shui meta

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whosmarinette · 4 months

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One of my most precious personal interpretations of Gwen's character in Spiderverse is how she views interpersonal relationships. Specifically how she views friendships - and why she said Miles was the only friend she ever made after Peter died. And even when Miles cheekily asked her about Hobie, she brushed it off as being 'different'.

You see, friendship is a pretty arbitrary concept. One person will call someone they just met a friend if the vibe is right (and that person would be me), while another needs to have an incredibly deep personal connection. And this gets shaped by a lot of different factors.

Gwen did have people who at least wanted to be her friends aside from Peter - her bandmates, for example. But her and Peter shared a connection vowed through pretty much a life together. I mean, there's a whole montage where it shows them sharing meals for what seems like years and what seems like every major event.

At that point, whether Gwen realized it or not, Peter wasn't just a friend. He was family. The closest person in the world to her, someone who understood her because they shared so many formative experiences. He was her soulmate in the sense that their souls got shaped together like how rocks get worn down and shaped together by a current. And, well, also the whole multiverse stuff.

After Peter died, Gwen was convinced she'll never have a connection like that again - and decided to swear off connections as a whole. Which is understandable. The dent this loss made in her life was undeniable, especially considering it also strained her relationship with her father.

And then she met Miles. And the first thing he does when they meet? He makes her laugh. She just can't help it. She also can't help but stare at him in class afterwards, even for a little bit. And mind you, this is pre-spider bite. It wasn't her spider-sense that went off like it does in the presence of another spider-person. She was stranded in an alternate universe, where there's another spider-man, she probably is incredibly confused and uncomfortable, and probably already glitching by that point. And then this guy comes in, makes a stupid joke and she cant. help. but. laugh.

She quickly grows in fondness towards Miles, and after just a day of working together, she knows it's something special. She keeps a picture they took together to look at when she most needs it. She visits him despite Miguel's wishes. She looks him in the eyes, knowing, that 'in every other universe it doesn't end well' and she still leans on his shoulder.

Hobie and Pavitr are her friends. That's undeniable.

But Miles? He is her soulmate.

#into the spiderverse #across the spiderverse #itsv #atsv #gwen stacy #miles morales #ghostflower #hobie brown #character analysis

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spidey-bie · 10 months

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I don't remember if anyone has typed out a post on this or not, but what are movie Hobie's canon events are? Especially regarding the whole "a cop close to Spiderman had to die."

We all know Hobie would never mess with cops. SoI find it incredibly hard to believe that he at any point was close to a police officer. So what exactly happened that replaced that? And at what point in Hobie's timeline did this happen? Because there is a possibility (it's such a small possibility like fingers almost touching small) that Hobie was close to a cop as a child that betrayed him.

NO WAIT. What if the cop dying was in a more symbolic sense. The cop betrayed Hobie and now he's "dead" to Hobie.

Also how'd he get bitten? I know how it happened to Comic Hobie however in the movie during his introduction he jokingly glossed over how he was bitten by a spider. Is there something there? I need someone else's thoughts on this before I go crazy.

#im physically unwell over this movie #NOW I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS #SIR TELL ME YOUR SECRETS #hobie brown #hobart brown #atsv hobie #atsv analysis #atsv #satsv #hobie brown across the spiderverse #hobie brown atsv #hobie atsv #hobie across the spiderverse #jay and the spiders

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hobiebrownismygod · 6 months

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Analyzation of Hobie Brown's sexualization on Tumblr (Also a little bit of ranting cuz it pisses me off like crazy)

Summary:

I'll be going over different stereotypes but I'll focus on the sexualization of black characters in the media specifically. Then I'm gonna relate it back to Hobie Brown and give a little lecture/stern-talking to at the end.

TW: Mentions of sex and sexuality, stereotypes, some mentions of pedophilia

Hobie Brown is not the only hyper-sexualized black man in the media. Almost every attractive black man from a TV show has been turned into a toy for fan fiction writers, including Prowler Miles/Earth-42 Miles (That's a whole other post). The same thing happens with POC characters like Miguel O'hara.

The hyper-sexualization of black characters has been around since the beginning of the integration of POC characters into the media. However, racist perceptions/stereotypes of African-Americans and other POC people in general have been around for even longer, results of white supremacy and "white man's burden"-based imperialism.

African-Americans specifically have been subject to stereotypes such as "being unable to control themselves" since the 1500s, during which black men in particular were being characterized as almost "animalistic." This translated into stereotypes which are still common today, like the stereotype that black men have more sexual prowess than other races.

Bell & Harris (linked below) find that many of these modern hyper-stereotypical images of Black folks have historically depicted them as violent, involved in criminal activity, deadbeat drunks or drug-addicts, or unable to control themselves sexually, financially, or physically. These images render the Black middle class invisible and reduce Blackness merely to pejorative categories. Such descriptions of Black masculinity are problematic for media consumers and emasculating for Black folks. For media viewers, such images relegate Blacks and/or Blackness to the role of being “the problem” and Whiteness as what is normal, typical, and ideal in comparison. Further, portrayals of Blackness juxtaposed against the backdrop of “Whiteness as the ideal” are problematic. They enable the media to influence how audience members construct and/or “view” members of various cultural communities and impact how traditionally marginalized community members may view themselves.

So in summary:

Black characters are sexualized because of stereotypes that have been around for centuries, results of extreme prejudice and blatant racism, which people continue to spew today. By sexualizing black characters in the media so freely, writers are emasculating their black readers and being casually offensive without even realizing it.

By writing about black characters like they're objects, especially black men, you are disrespecting the image of African-Americans in the media, and harming the media's interpretation of them, which eventually leads to worse stereotypes and worse situations for them to have to deal with.

Now let's specifically talk about Hobie Brown.

Why exactly is he so sexualized on Tumblr? The same reasons listed above. He's an attractive black man, so many fan fiction writers find him fair game to create their stereotypical smut-ridden stories, and completely disregard his entire character.

Despite him having zero romantic interests and not even being displayed as a sexual character, people are automatically assuming that he would have a high sexual prowess and would be very sex-motivated.

Do you see the similarities? Blatant racism.

The stereotype that black men have a higher sexual prowess is translating into Hobie Brown's character, which is why there's so much smut written about him. This is also the reason why there's not as much fluff written about him. Because according to these stereotypes, African-American men don't have emotions. They're so masculine that they would never talk about their feelings. They're sexual toys and nothing else.

Do you see the problem with this?

Now this is all without even addressing the fact that his age isn't confirmed. He could be anywhere from 16-25 years old. I personally think he's a teenager, because of the fact that he hangs out with Gwen and Pav who are canonically 13 and 16, and because he looks like a teenager and acts like a teenager.

Overall, the message of this post is-

The hyper-sexualization of black men in the media has to be addressed. Hobie Brown is only the latest victim of sexual stereotypes and this isn't okay. No character should have their entire storyline, plot and characterization stripped down to their sexuality. It's disgusting.

The writers spent a lot of time and put a lot of effort into Hobie's character. By stripping him down to his looks and his sexuality, you are disrespecting the writers and you are feeding into stereotypes. Don't be a supporter of casual racism. Don't be a supporter of stereotypes. Don't be a supporter of sensualizing characters. Don't be a supporter of casual pedophilia.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk. Here's a pretty picture of Hobie.

He looks so done 💀. Me after seeing people continue to write smut about him.

Note: I'm not African-American, so if anything I said needs editing or if any of the stereotypes I mentioned are inaccurate in any way, please reach out to me! I'm trying to be a better writer and any type of feedback would be very helpful <3

Sources:

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10057104

Bell & Harris:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/17513057.2016.1142598

https://fabulizemag.com/adults-thirsting-over-underage-characters-is-weird/

@ignocubo

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sidebloggingsohardmydickfallsoff · 11 months

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Something that I’ve noticed about the hype surrounding Hobie after ATSV is that no one seems to talk about how Hobie is punk in Britain; a place with a very active punk scene yes, but in the punk scene in the past, being any other race than white was considered “posing” (hence songs from black alternative artists like Young Gifted Black in Leather and I am a Poseur). And now in just a few years time that entire script has been flipped on it’s head, with Wendell and Wild and then with Hobie Brown.

He is not just a spiderman who happens to be punk! He is a black spiderman who embodies punk, he IS punk! He stands up to the system, watches out for his friends and does everything according to his own anarchistic ideal and he ROCKS! He crushes it!

So many people will have a first (or first deeper, extended) impression of punk culture through this movie, and they will see Hobie Fucking Brown be an amazing Spider-Man and be punk and he is just such a great representation of punk culture while also saying “fuck you this is dumb” while saving lives!

Idk where I am going with this but it made me very happy and Hobie is amazing!

#across the spider verse spoilers #across the spiderverse #atsv hobie #hobie brown #punk #punk culture #character analysis #sortaaa #spider punk #listen I just have a lot of feeling about this #and the movie #but this specifically #I just love Hobie brown so much #I wanna have some tea with him #I’ll even drink earl grey please

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pleaktale · 5 days

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GUESS WHAT? Yeah, baby. Another Hobie Brown yapping character analisis.

I saw a post from @arachnix0401 (hi moot!) talking about their OC and Hobie and got reminded that this guy is seriously a genius. No bullshit. BRO MADE A MULTIDIMENSIONAL TRAVELLING WATCH FROM SCRAPS. So yeah, he has the brains.

So that got me thinking about Hobie Brown being this intelligence-filled-human-being and how he would put that to good use. Not only with you but with everyone he's willing to help. Oh, you need something to help with your small business of potery? He's helping developing some potter's wheel with some tech that helps with possible waste of ceramic (random but you got the idea).

Web slingers? He made them himself. A customizable jukebox in miniature for you to blast his music when he's away? It's up on your table. A simple bracelet that vibrates when you tap it for you two to show you're thinking about each other (and waterproof!)? It's already on your wrist and you use it everyday.

Anyway! That was today's rambling, I should be doing homework righy now... See you soon!

#hobie brown #spider punk #atsv #across the spiderverse #bleak posting #hobie spiderverse #hobie brown x you #hobie brown headcanons #character analysis #spider punk x you #spider punk x reader #hobie brown x reader

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catpriciousmarjara · 10 months

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Tell me: Is He Gay or In a Sherwani?

Imposition of western norms in fandom analysis of Asian characters

With the rising popularity of Indian cinema sparked by the recent success of RRR on international platforms as well as the easy availability of multiple streaming services, in addition to the appearance of South Asian characters in prominent roles in western, particularly US media, I've begun to see some concerning 'analysis' posts online. So I thought I'd address something I found common in most of these takes.

Guys, characterizing your blorbos as queer is great and all, love it, but you're making a fundamental mistake by making their clothing choices the foundation for your queer headcanons, especially when it comes to male characters. Do not apply existing western cultural ideas regarding male clothing onto South Asian characters and their dressing please.

The vast majority of the clothes being used by people in various online spaces as 'evidence' of a character being queer(gay or bi mostly) are just normal Indian clothing for men, like daily wear. A top being pink or a character's wardrobe being mostly pastel means absolutely nothing...cos Indian clothing tends to be colourful in general and the tendency to ascribe colours masculine and feminine qualities is considerably less in the subcontinent. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but generally not a concern.

There's also this pervasive idea that colourful clothing = flamboyance = queer and that itself is something many people have already pointed as a deeply flawed way of thinking and a stereotype. Furthermore, even if you do lean into the archetype of queer men being flamboyant, subscribing to the 'stereotypes exist for a reason don't they?' school of thought perhaps, there's also the fact that ideas of what is considered flamboyant change dramatically across different cultures. What is 'flamboyant' for someone might just be normal for others. Like maybe pink or purple or yellow might be considered too much, unmanly, emasculating etc in the US or something but they're just perfectly normal colours for men to wear in many, many cultures.

It's the 'Is he Gay or European?' principle. Did you characterize this Indian character (or any South Asian character really) as queer because of their canonical behaviour and portrayal, or did you just see their clothing and decide they're queer because being well groomed and having a colourful wardrobe is a character trait you exclusively ascribe to being queer?

Like guys, I like Chaipunk like the rest of you, but if you consider Pavitr queer just because his costume is a lot fancier than the others' (An actual take I've seen multiple times) without taking into account his cultural background....¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Let me make this clear, I don't think people need a ten page analysis to imagine their fave as queer. Headcanoning a character as queer can have any reason ranging from 'I said so and so it is' to 'this is my light character analysis that makes a masters thesis look shabby' and they're all valid and an integral part of the fandom experience. What I am annoyed at are these so-called 'well-researched' theories that did not make the slightest effort to look into South Asian culture and simply transposed their western bias onto Indian media and confidently make flat out wrong judgements and mislead other people. Clothing based sexual identity determinism is the least of it. That I can at least understand through the lens of a habitual process built through years of analyzing crumbs of queer representation available only through queer coded characters and symbolism such as clothing choices being the only way to see an aspect of yourself portrayed in an aggressively heteronormative media ecosystem. I do that too, because media is tragically heteronormative everywhere. But the rest? Its just straight up misinformation and misrepresentation touted as truth.

Its the same with relationships between men. There are plenty of cultures where skinship between men is not unusual and dynamics and nuances tend to be vastly different from western representations of male friendships. In xianxia and wuxia fandoms you can see this same problem in a different font when outsiders, most often the western side of the fandom, try to apply their own standards and morals onto the original work and try to interpret it through a lens it was never supposed to be interpreted through in the first place, except maybe for comparative analysis. This practice itself isn't a major problem, its natural for people to apply what is familiar to them to try and understand something new. But when this is also accompanied by them foisting their personal interpretation and analysis as the 'correct' one and trying to impose it on the fandom as a whole, it escalates into a powder keg situation as you can imagine.

Again, not saying that western parts of fandoms are the root of all evil or anything like that, gods know how toxic netizens can be. But in this specific situation, where people try to impose western ideals on to non-western content and assumes the universalism of their own principles and value systems? Indeed an issue to be addressed.

#ATSV #South Asian Characters #Desi characters #South Asian culture #Desi Culture #Fandom analysis #LGBTQ+#Brown culture #Spiderman: Across the Spiderverse #Pavitr Prabhakhar #Hobie Brown #Chaipunk #RRR #Miss Marvel #Tagging Miss Marvel and RRR only because they're in the intro-two pieces of media that are good examples of the increased attention-#on South Asian characters and Indian cinema #Not included in the body of the post except under umbrella terms like South Asian character/South Asian media & other such categories

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honeysluiced · 10 months

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reposting this incredible hobie analysis by @lizzytheowl577 i stumbled across in a youtube comment section

Spoilers ahead

Ok so Hobie was all set to betray Miguel the moment he realized that Miles might be in trouble. The first thing to tell us this is that Hobie actively congratulates Miles when he stopped the cannon event from happening. Presumably every Spider-person who the event isn't for gets an alert when one is about to happen to keep them from interfering, this includes Hobie. He knows Miles just broke the rules in a major way and he's estatic about it. If I remember right, he's the only person who actually congratulates him on the rescue (Other than Pavitr of course).

Next, when Miguel orders all of them to come to the Spider-Lobby (I don't think it had an official name and if it did I forgot it) Hobie puts his arm around Miles then says "I don't follow orders and neither does he". I initially read this as Hobie trying to keep Miles safe from Miguel, in a "We'll run right now if we have to kind of way" but the more I think about it, I don't think this is the case. I think Hobie believed that Miles knew he was breaking a cannon event and that's why he tacked on "and neither does he" at the end.

Once Hobie realizes that Miles is ecstatic to go to the Spider-Lobby, he starts to second guess himself. He asks Gwen how much Miles knows, discovers he knows basically nothing and on the spot switches to talking Miles out of joining. Telling him to make his own watch and that he wouldn't like being in this group.

When Miles asks why Hobie is even there, he's says he's there to look out for his drummer. What he doesn't say is that he's doing that by trying to help Miles. Through this whole conversation, he is stealing bits and pieces of equipment from the lab, and it's implied he uses those pieces later on to make a new watch for Gwen to use. From at least that point, probably earlier, he knows that Miles isn't going to sit quietly while his dad dies, and Gwen is eventually going to want to help him. Which is why he delivers the watch to Gwen instead of trying to go straight to Miles.

Later on, when Miles is getting angry about all the other Spider-People telling him to let his dad die, Hobie eggs him on. This is not just something he does impulsively. He realized early on when Miles talked about his parents that all he needed was a few nudges to go against Miguel's system. When Miles started showing signs of discontent, he decided to pick that moment to egg him on because that was the most effective time to. Then, Miles gets trapped in the energy prison.

Hobie helps him get out of it, but the way this is done is genius. He holds up his hands and mouths "palms". To everyone else this would look like he was trying to just calm Miles down. If they just see his hands, it looks like a "calm down" gesture, if they read his lips, "calm" and "palm" are pronounced similarly enough that seeing him mouth one word, they'd assume in that instance he's saying "calm" as in "calm down". This in turn does two things: It gives Miles the element of surprise, and it doesn't make it look like Hobie helped. Those two things give both of them time, Miles get a few stunned seconds of a head start, and nobody chases or tracks down Hobie meaning he has time to make the new watches. He even throws away his current watch because he knows it can be tracked and Miguel might go after him after realizing he didn't help try to catch Miles.

Basically Hobie is an incredibly intelligent character and they were able to demonstrate this really well in the short amount of time he actually got on screen.

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babydrummer · 6 months

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hobie brown's character/dimension is a critique of systematic oppression by means of the government and the police force, while miles g / 42!miles (as we've seen him so far) is a critique of capitalism as seen through corporate injustice. while both of these things are deeply intertwined, these stories are clearly attempting to show the difference between how capitalism/society takes advantage of the class divide vs the racial divide. in this essay i will-

#.mine #atsv #across the spiderverse #hobie brown #spider punk #miles g morales #42!miles #prowler miles #atsv analysis #yeah i'm tagging this im fucking awesome

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the-cat-and-the-birdie · 10 months

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Hobie Brown, Emotional Preparation, and the Art of Great Dialogue

Nearly all of Hobie's dialogue is written with his goal - protecting and preparing Miles for Miguel's abuse - in mind, even if it may not be obvious at first watch.

Here's an unhinged breakdown where I over-analyze literally every one of Hobie’s lines and explain how every sentence was written to contribute directly to Miles’ radicalization.

Hollywood. Pay your writers. (:

___________________________________________________

Hobie has around 10 minutes screentime total, but for the sake of introductions and this analysis, let's start at the end of the battle, and the beginning of the quantum hole.

Starting with his first line in the scene:

"I don't follow orders. Neither does he."

All morals considered, Hobie doesn't seem like the type to speak for someone who can speak for themselves - he's a punk after all. But here, he speaks for Miles. This line serves to tell Miles 'I don't respect them, why should you?', but funnily enough, it can also be a point to Jess, as if to say 'Miles isn't interested.' - even if he is.

"Bit much, innit?"

While, Hobie and Mile's next interaction is their exchange in the elevator, the scene leads to Mile's introduction to the Society. Miles gawks at the lobby, obviously impressed. Gwen affirms this awe, telling him 'this is just the lobby.' However, Hobie feels the need to chime in. His next dialogue 'Bit much, innit?' is a subtle nudge to Miles that the society is not a place to be in awe off. It's a spectacle, one that's a bit overdone. Knowing Miles now sees Hobie as cool, Hobie makes it known - he sees the Society as uncool.

"Gwendy, How much have you told him? About his place in all this? Maybe not enough."

'So what happened about that small elite strike-team?' - 'Most of these are part time.' This is by far one of Hobie's more interesting lines, and I wrote about it here. But in short, this is Hobie's soft but direct confrontation of Gwen. After Gwen lies to Miles in front of him, Hobie immediately asks how much Gwen has revealed to him. And when she tries to play it off, he openly says 'Maybe that's not enough.' He's not angry with Gwen, but he is disappointed, which in turn motivates him to have his discussion with Miles.

"Super humane, and not creepy."

One of my favorites, because it's hard to catch and to the point. After talking about Hobie and Gwen's mission history, they're taken to Margo and the control room. As Miles marvels at Margo and the Go-Home-Machine, and Gwen says she voted against it. However, Hobie says blatantly: 'Holy shit, Miles isn't this inhumane and weird???', validating that the Society is willing to do inhumane, hurtful stuff to those it deems 'misplaced'.

Next comes Hobie's confrontation with Miles.

Because Hobie knows this is his last movements with Miles before he meets Miguel, and this is where if final push of emotional support kicks in, before he goes quiet in front of Miguel.

And because this conversation is so well layered, I think it's best to go line by line. ______________________________

H: "Bet this doesn't even do anything." M: "Maybe it did before you ripped it out of a wall!"

Hobie has now confirmed that he'll be making an exit soon. And he begins his finally sweep of parts he needs for his watch, stocking up his pockets. He's not stealing to steal. He knows he's leaving and this is his last chance to get what he needs before he's out the door.

"Propaganda, bro! It's to distract you from the truth!"

HOLY SHIT I missed this one. Notice how in this shot, Gwen is not visible at all. Hobie notices they're out of hershot of her for the first time. And his first line is - 'Propaganda.' Their watches can take them anywhere. When Gwen needed to, she was taken to exactly where she needed in Mumbattan. But when they're heading towards HQ, Jessica makes them walk through the lobby. They could have been sent directly to Miguel's station, but instead she makes them do the whole tour, which serves as a flex of muscle. In order, Miles was shown the massive number of members in the Society, then their prisoners, then the go-home-machine. Only THEN can they see Miguel. All of which was intent to intimidate Miles on purpose. Hobie tells him directly: 'Everything you just saw was propaganda.'

M: And what's that?

"I ain't got a Scooby Doo, mate. Cause that's what they want."

One of the most iconic and notable of his quotes. Cockney aside, this line ties back in with his discussion with Gwen just a couple minutes before. They've done their tour and walk. Both Jess and Gwen have been given a chance to prime or explain to Miles anything, and both have chosen not to. So Hobie simply tells him, 'They want you in the dark. And they're sending you into a fight.'

The next line is:

H: Why do you want to be part of this lot? M: To get a watch. H: Make your own watch.

Miles sucks his teeth at Hobie.

Because of this - Hobie begins to change methods. Which I cannot stress is incredibly perceptive of him.

Miles is exasperated with him. So instead of dissuasion and making the society out to be uncool, he tries to turn Miles' attention towards his family.

"Bet you got a nice setup, huh? Nice parents?"

This line is a very well done one, with two things of notice. First, I find it interesting that the screenplay phrases this line as a question, not a sentence. Hobie is asking. He's taking a shot in the dark here. And this is backed up by his delivery; Hobie hesitates while saying this. The only line in which he does so. He may not know about Miles' mom and dad, because Gwen hadn't met them when she met Hobie. But still, Hobie asks, hoping the reminder of Miles' parents will dissuade him from continuing.

M: They're fine. H: [After this line, Hobie turns black and white momentarily. Potentially a nod to the fact that this conversation is the only 'black and white' one Miles has had so far.] M: But we got into a fight. They just want what's best for me, so...

[Hobie frowns. The scene and dialogue REALLY starts to pick-up from here.]

"That's a bloody shame. Because you're not ready for everyone else."

As the scene progresses Hobie goes from behind Miles, to beside him like an ally. Then, when Gwen finally comes back into frame, Hobie crosses in front of him. When Miles mentions his parents wanting what's best for him, Hobie warns that everyone else does not want what's best for him. At the same time, visually Gwen has her back to Miles, and Hobie puts himself between Miles and Gwen, trying to block his path. The scene is set up to show that in Hobie's eyes, Gwen is turning her back on Miles. She does not have his best interest in mind. Hobie is telling Miles 'They're using propaganda on you, they're keeping you in the dark, and they do not have your best interest at mind. You're not ready for this." And he physically tries to block Miles from continuing, one last time.

Miles goes through Hobie, and now within earshot of Gwen again, this is Hobie's final chance and push to get as much information into Miles as he can - without freaking Miles out. Above all else, he needs Miles to be prepared, confident, and willing to fight back.

His voice becomes more serious, and he starts speaking more straight-forward and a lot less cryptically.

"Listen to me, bruv. The whole point of being Spider-man is your independence. Being your own boss, you don't need all this!"

I think Hobie saying this reveals a lot about his character, especially understanding the context where he's from. While many Spider-men would agree that being Spider-man is about responsibility and power - to Hobie, it is about independence, and freedom. Hobie is a freedom fighter, and one of the only Spider-men besides Noir that knows how to fight systemic threats as well as physical ones. To him, being Spiderman is about being able to free yourself and others. It's about independence and freedom, and he's trying to nail that in Miles' head one last time.

M: Then why are you here?

"Looking out for my drummer, is all."

As the scene is coming to a close, the writers chose this time to reveal some of Hobie's motivations, starting with the independence comment, and now this. Despite knowing about Gwen's deception towards Miles, he is still looking out for her - and Miles. This is the writers' and Hobie's last push to solidify himself as an ally to Miles and the viewer.

M: I want to be in a band. I want to see my friends, and I need a watch to do that. G: Guys, come on.

"Alright, Squashed. Just don't enlist until you know about who you're fighting."

I genuinely had to sit and ask myself why the writers would choose to leave Hobie's collective effort - a LOT of effort - with this line. And honestly, I think it's a perfect segway. Hobie chooses his words very clearly; He doesn't say 'what', he says 'who'. The next scene leads into Miguel's intro, and up until this point, Miles doesn't know who he is. He only knows about the Society, but never who is at the top. We know about Miguel, but all Miles knows is his name. That's why Hobie says 'who you're fighting'. Because the Society isn't really a Society, and this isn't really between Miles and the Society at all. It's a dictatorship - and the person he's enlisting to fight is Miguel. The perfect introduction and warning to the person he's about to meet. He's telling Miles, 'Don't rush into it. Wait until you meet Miguel first'. And when Miles does meet Miguel, he finally sees that this isn't the place he thought it was, just like Hobie said. ALSO EVEN MORE INTERESTINGLY - THIS is one of the lines that is changed between the two versions of spiderverse (there are two theatrical versions on release.) In the alternative he says 'Don't enlist unless you know what war you're fighting.' And I think that the fact the writers chose to publish two different versions of this line goes to show how powerful they knew this line would be in Miles' characterization. There is so much Hobie has left to say to him, but only one line - and so we get two versions. How fun!

With the scene now over, we see a change in Hobie's demeanor, and I love the writers' choice to have the shot linger on Hobie.

We see him give Miles a look that isn't exactly full of confidence, but from this point forward, Hobie chooses to hang back, no longer having any motivation to instigate. He knows his work here is done, and now all he can really do is wait for Miguel to reveal his true colors, and hope that he got through enough to Miles that he will react, and fight back.

And closing out the scene - I noticed that when Peter B. arrives Hobie pointedly says

"Oh boy, Humbling Reality Spider-man has arrived."

All I'll say about this is Hobie has to be Jamaican cause that was so mfing rude shgjfkghjgjkdfjk

Hobie has about three lines between this point and then end of his screentime - Two of which were his lines to Mayday, and his comment during the canon events.

But there is one shot of him before it all happens. And after this shot the movie begins staging Hobie in specific a very different way than anyone else.

The moment begins with Miles' line 'My Dad is about to be captain.'

The camera pans to each character. Gwen, Peter, and Jess all avert their eyes. Miguel looks at Miles. And Hobie is the only one who looks at all of them. Instead of looking down, he looks to the others, in anticipation of whats going to happen. It's also important to note that this was probably news to Hobie. He probably didn't know Miles' dad was a cop - or at the very least going to be captain. So the understanding of just how much trouble Miles is in kinda multiplies in this moment.

Then, this happens

From this point forward, every time Hobie is portrayed, he is shown as separate from the other characters, always being divided from the group - with Miles as the divider. Even as the camera moves, Hobie visually remains - quite literally - as the only person in Miles' corner. And as the scene goes on, he moves farther and farther into that corner.

Until finally the scene comes to a climax, and Hobie gets two shots to himself - delivering his final lines.

"Here we go." - "Hobie, You're not helping." - "Good."

GUYS IM GONNA CRY OKAY IM GONNA CRY

This is Hobie seeing his work pay off. This is him knowing that he got through to Miles and that it was worth it. He's proud of him.

Hobie knew what he came to do, and he used literally every line he said to Miles to the FULLEST extent. He doesn't give a fuck if he's not helping the Society. He's helping Miles. And now he knows his work is done.

Being a punk is not about being a hero, it's about empowering those who feel powerless. HE UNDERSTOOD THE MOTHERFUCKING ASSIGNMENT.

IN SHORT - HOLLYWOOD PAY YOUR FUCKING WRITERS I SWEAR TO GOD.

if you read this far let me know :) thanks bye

#ill repost the ending as its own post as well yay #hobie brown #spider punk #spiderpunk #miles morales #gwen stacy #jessica drew #miguel o'hara #spiderman 2099 #atsv #atsv analysis #across the spiderverse #spidergwen #spiderwoman #peter parker #peter b parker

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