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october-renaissance · 3 years

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I'm surprised that there's such a strong consensus that Jiang Fengmian was totally irredeemable as a parent. Like, was he perfect? No. Did his behavior contribute to a lot of Jiang Cheng’s issues? Certainly. Was he the father JC needed? Probably not. But I would really contest the idea that he was a god-awful father who openly favored Wei Wuxian and didn’t love JC.

Disclaimer: these are all just my opinions. Obviously JFm can be interpreted as he popularly is, I'm just surprised it's so widely accepted as the One Truth.

When I watched the show, JFm struck me as generally reserved, gentle, forgiving, and passive. In his scenes with WWx and JC, both the narrative and his actor's choices indicate to me that he regards them with quiet pride and affection. I mean, when WWx and JC return to Lotus Pier after running off to do who-knows-what, he doesn’t scold them or even look angry. He’s not interested in punishing them, he only wants to know if they had a safe journey. And I do mean they – both WWx and JC – because he's addressing them both and pretty much does treat them the same way, as he does in most of the trio's scenes together. There are only two differences in his treatment of them throughout the show that I can see.

JFm is obviously portrayed as having a stronger connection with WWx. They have more in common ideologically and personality-wise, and WWx embodies their sect’s teachings in a way that JC simply does not. JC also inherited his mother’s personality, and Yu Ziyuan is someone JFm struggles to get along with, despite how much he clearly cares about her. JC clearly notices that he has a weaker connection with JFm than WWx and is naturally hurt, but it’s not necessarily anyone’s fault. Some people just vibe with certain types over others, and this is true even within family units. In all but one of his scenes, it's not like JFm is excluding JC or otherwise neglecting him.

JFm corrects or reprimands JC more often than WWx. A few times, he says things along the lines of “watch what you say” to JC, but not to WWx. The thing is, JFm’s not wrong for correcting JC in this way, especially since saying things in anger is an established pattern with him. As a future sect leader and just as a person, JC should learn to speak thoughtfully and tactfully. I’m also inclined to accept WWx’s argument that JFm is less strict with him because he’s not going to become sect leader (meaning he doesn’t need to be held to a higher standard) and because he’s not actually JFm’s kid. This is a great way to inspire feelings of inequality and insecurity in children, but I don’t think JFm has to be interpreted as malicious or negligent because of this behavior. He’s simply not perfect.

In addition to this, while these two problems are present in several of the scenes JFm has with WWx and JC, there are really only two scenes I can point to where JFm unambiguously messed up.

The dinner scene. JFm sits the Yunmeng trio down for dinner, YZy swoops in, makes everyone feel terrible about themselves, and accuses JFm of favoring Cangse-sanren over herself and therefore of favoring WWx over JC. JFm does… practically nothing. He doesn’t try very hard to stop or contradict her. This passivity allows YZy to hit everyone right in their sore spots.

The sickbed scene. WWx has just woken up after passing out in Lotus Pier. JFm praises WWx’s accomplishments and coldly ignores JC. JC scolds WWx for playing hero by... helping his allies in a battle that he didn't even start?? JFm tries to explain to his son why this is a no-good perspective to have, then, when told that JC didn’t mean it, tells him that he still can’t say whatever just because he’s angry. YZy comes in to pick a fight, JFm once again fails to do anything about it, and JC concludes that JFm hates him. If we take the scene as it is, this whole interaction was very uncool of JFm. He was cold to the point of hostility towards his son and should have done more to dispute the accusations YZy was throwing at him. But the thing is, it feels out of character for the JFm of earlier appearances to glare at and ignore JC just because WWx acknowledged his accomplishments. It kind of feels like the writers sacrificed character consistency to frame JFm as the bad guy in that scene. Besides that, JC was 100% in the wrong when he scolded WWx and he deserved to be corrected. Whether he meant what he said or was just venting anger, he was in the wrong.

It's easy to see how his parents' behavior fed JC's fears and insecurities, and I think people tend to take YZy’s claims of favoritism at face value at least in part because JFm doesn’t do much to correct her. It's taken as an indication that JFm doesn’t correct her because he can’t, because she’s right. I interpret it more like he's so incredulous or so sick of having the same arguments that he just waits for them to blow over. This clearly causes lots of problems, but it also doesn't make JFm an uncaring or irredeemable father.

In fact, I think it's frankly unlikely that he's uncaring towards JC or that their relationship is all bad. I think it's telling that, in their scenes together, JC is unusually gentle towards JFm and doesn't put up that prickly front like he usually does.

So yeah. I interpret JFm and JC’s relationship to be more along the lines of “bad communication worsened by difficult circumstances and clashing personalities” than “terrible father to unfavored son”.

#jiang cheng #wei wuxian #meta #the untamed #yu ziyuan

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arizona-trash-bag · 3 years

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I can totally explain a bit of my thinking behind seeing lwj as autistic and wwx as autistic/adhd!! Before I get into specifics though, let me preface with where I’m coming from. I first saw CQL and then read the EXR translation of the novel. I prefer MDZS to CQL, but also want to acknowledge that because I do not read/speak Mandarin I am inherently experiencing this story second-hand and therefore am probably missing out on a lot of nuances. I am trying to learn Mandarin, but it will be a long time before I am even a little close to fluent lol.

Another preface- obviously not all autistic people present in the same way, and many of the things that I will mention are not solely specific to autistic people either. It’s one of those things where all of it added up together points towards asd, but each one individually would not on its own indicate asd, you know? Also, I will say that many of the things I picked up on for both characters are autistic traits that many autistic people have vs the clinical characteristics (much like most of the case I could make for wwx’s adhd would be adhd traits he has rather than symptoms that would lead to a real-world diagnosis.) Edit: OH! I almost forgot to say, that also all of these traits I’m listing are from a western perspective, and I would LOVE to read more about how autism presents in different cultures and to see conversations between autistc Chinese people specifically, so as to see if these traits are specific to western autistic people or not, but again, I do not speak Mandarin or Cantonese or any other Chinese dialect, so that’s a little inaccessible for me atm.

Ok, SO, for both characters I would list: strong sense of justice, lack of care for society’s opinion (I feel like it could be argued that lwj does to a certain point, but imo he operates more from what he morally considers to be correct and from a place of familial duty vs catering to the opinion of society at large), and then more vaguely, they both seem to be “nerdy” (this doesnt feel like the most accurate term, especially because it's not like being scholarly is specific to their characters, especially in ancient fantasy China- it’s more that their particular hmmm, flavor?? of love of knowledge feels very neurodivergent to me, vs like, being scholarly because it’s the thing that is expected of a Young Master, if that makes any sense at all- like the difference btwn someone getting an engineering degree because it is expected of them vs because they genuinely love engineering), and lastly for both- I would say that they are canonically kinky, and while I can’t cite any statistics, there’s a pretty high correlation between being autistic and being into kink. Obviously, not every person who is not vanilla is autistic, and not every autistic person is into kink…….but there is a high correlation.

For lwj specifically, the things that made me think he might be autistic are his lack of outward emoting combined with his depth and breadth of emotions, how he seems to thrive in and quite enjoy the very structured environment he grew up in, and then the last one off the top of my head (side note, I feel like a week from now I’m going to randomly think of other examples lol) I’m not actually sure IS an example, because I know (thanks to the awesome post from hunxi that you linked to that I had read previously) that his succintness does not equal autism, but I do kind of feel like it is very autistic to Always be so formal and to Always talk in textbook perfect language.

For wwx, I also think he likely has CPTSD! I’m not going to list anything for adhd or cptsd since we both agree on those :) As far as being autistic goes, there is, of course, the high prevalence of adhd/asd comorbidity. For specifc traits- while autism can show up as lack of facial expressions/tone, it can also show up as being overly exuberant and overexpressive. Especially for younger autistic children this can show up as being overly friendly/no boundaries w/ strangers (just?? going home with a random man who says he knew wwx’s parents???), making unusual connections that others do not can be both asd and adhd, his disregard for social status (disregard might be a strong word, and also I feel like this might be one of those things that got lost in translation and if I had read the original text I might have a different opinon, but what I mean here is the way that often autistic people learn certain social rules and try their best to follow them, but often do not pick up on specifics related to social hierarchy that are not spelled out for them- I think jyl’s take down of jin zixun is a great example of the /oppossite/ of what I’m talking about, and is a very neurotypical interaction. An example also of what I mean by disregard for social hierarchy, but from my own life, is how I’ve reflected on past convos w/ my boss only to realize that what I thought was just an interesting conversation about our opinons on a particular subject was actually them trying to tell-me-as-my-boss something they wanted me to do. We ended up doing things the way I wanted to do them because I didn’t realize that they were telling me to do something because they didnt explicitly say so, and because I just don’t pick up on when people are saying something from a social hierarchy pov. Idk if this makes sense or not, so I’m happy to try to expand if you would like me to. I feel like wwx could be described as having alexithymia, which is very common in autistic people, but could also be due to his cptsd. And then, I don’t feel like this is a true point because it is kind of based on headcanon? but wwx feels very demisexual to me, which is much more common for autistic people than it is for allistic people. But him being demi is not canon, just my perception of him (I see him as demisexual gay w/ massive comphet, but I know lots of people see him as bi, which also totally makes sense!!)

Tbh, I’m having a harder time than I thought I would listing wwx specifics. I might go through the book sometime this weekend and see if there are specific moments that pop out at me, but tbh w/ him its more that he Feels very adhd/asd to me?? Idk, I was diagnosed w/ adhd when I was 8, and all 4 of my siblings plus my father have offical adhd diagnoses. I’m 29 now and was only diagnosed as autistic earlier this year. All of my close friends have always been either adhd, asd, or adhd/asd. There have been multiple people I have met that I’ve suspected were neurodivergent who have later told me they started looking into it and are now seeking formal diagnoses. I mention these things, only to give full context when I say that I have spent a lot of time observing the differences between interacting with neurotypicals and neurodivergents. I mean, obviously, it’s possible that I could just be projecting, but to me, Wwx gives off late-diagnosed/heavy masker autism/adhd combo vibes. Again, maybe I am projecting, but I did try to analyze whether I was or not previously, and determined that since in the past with other favorite characters (who I probably share more similarities in personality with) I did not feel like they were neurodivergent, so I figured that probably I wasn’t? That feels like a very convoluted sentence, but what I mean is that I have not thought that about other characters who have been my fav, so I figured that while I do project in certain areas that this particular area probably wasn’t one of them. Or, to say it in yet another way, since i did not project any of my neurodivergencies on past favorite characters, I figured I probably didn’t start doing so now.

I would love to hear more of your perspective on this, particularly because I worry that I do not have the cultural touchstones to realize when something wwx or lwj is doing is not actually a sign of being neurodivergent. I try my best to research things I don’t know about and to listen to fans who actually do have that cultural understanding, but there’s only so much I can look into on my own when I only speak/read english. And also, I love mdzs and I love talking about both adhd and autism, so I’m glad to talk about these subjects with someone else who also likes all of those topics :) Sorry for sending a book of a response and also I hope you are having a great day!!

wow wow wow anon THANK YOU for doing your research and acknowledging your blind spots you seriously made my day. I wanted to get to this as soon as I made that rant while sharing cyan’s post bc this is specifically an example of a well researched proposition based on actual lived experience and critical thinking.

I almost want to ask you to come forward so we can take this convo elsewhere for a more nuanced discussion bc you’ve already hit upon an issue that’s been holding me back from making a big blathering masterpost on the matter - that the ND experience is so unique and individual, and no one person can dictate someone else’s experience. at the end of the day, if you personally relate to these characters and gain more understanding of yourself and your experiences from them, who am I to take that away from you?

in a public space though I have to make the discussion very broad in order to accurately contextualize these issues, bc in typical autistic fashion I feel morally compelled to Do My Best and Get It Right even as the masses show no inclination of returning the favor, so apologies for the boring backstories I have to get out of the way before we can approach anything resembling new ground.

first from a diagnostic standpoint, while I recognize the traits you listed (and appreciate your clearly nuanced understanding of ND expressions) and would find value in exploring them in a personal context, they are not unique to adhd and/or autism and wouldn’t constitute a basis for diagnosis in a clinical setting. I know that's probably beside the point for this anon, but there's enough edgy teens hoarding labels out there without tacit encouragement from scientists (yes I am technically a scientist, even though my ideologies these days range from conventional to... wildly esoteric, shall we say)

from a cultural standpoint, it’s important for me to emphasize that the concept of neurodivergence is a uniquely western notion. for those unfamiliar, the term 'neurodiversity' was only coined in 1998. I was born in 1991. I existed for a whole 7 years as an autistic person before the idea of being neurodivergent was even a thing. this ND acceptance thing is very, very new - people were not making tiktok confessionals about their adhd diagnosis journeys when I was growing up.

china, like most asian countries, is about 20 years or more behind on just about every social issue compared with western countries. to better illustrate, the experience of being ND in china falls much closer to the conventional experience of disability (i.e. being eugenicized out of existence) than the tentative ND acceptance movement that’s been kickstarted in the past 20 years in the anglosphere.

safe to say, there is no ND coding going on in chinese media. characters are either explicitly ND or they're not. there's no basis for a creator subtly inducing ND-like traits in a character, because there's no such thing as ND awareness in the cultural context of where mdzs was written and consumed. any resemblance is purely accidental, as they say.

as to how this resemblance could exist - I could go into the layers and layers of historical, cultural, social and religious context that make up these characters and the xianxia genre as a whole. for this anon in particular i'm happy to, because they've done the work. please please get in touch in some way where we can have a fully fleshed out chat if you're interested in taking this further, I realize i’ve basically addressed none of the finer points you’ve raised but honestly it’s another level of discussion to be had that cannot be summarized in one blog post haha.

as for those who would scream 'but special interests!!' at a character whose sect was founded by a literal monk - what would be the point?

PS. to comprise a starting point for why it's possible to see ND4ND everywhere in media if you looked hard enough - I refer you to the seminal red oni blue oni trope 💁‍♀️

#neurodivergence #neurodiversity #actuallyautistic #autism #adhd #danmei #mo dao zu shi #the untamed #mdzs #lan wangji #wei wuxian

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crossdressingdeath · 4 years

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I find it really strange how LXC has more haters than JC. Overall I do think he’s pretty well liked, but I have seen way more criticism for him than for JC, which is weird. Because I feel like you can find legitimate explanations for a lot of LXC’s choices, whereas the same can’t be said for JC. Let’s look at LXC’s supposed crimes. Trusting JGY? Well, I don’t think we can complain about that, and then at the same time 1/10

breath turn around and support LWJ for always standing up for WWX because...look, I get that it's not exactly the same thing. And it's REALLY not the same thing because it ultimately turned out that JGY couldn't be trusted, but the thing is, LXC genuinely didn't know that at the time! This guy was a very close friend of his! He believed in him! JGY had saved his life in the past! And just like LWJ always supports his loved ones without a second thought, LXC is doing the same thing. Because, 2/10

in this eyes, JGY hasn't really given him any reason not to trust him. The guy is a very good manipulator, and when you are that close to someone, you WANT to believe the best in them. LXC is not an idiot, he is the victim of someone else's manipulations, and it's not like pretty much everyone in the cultivation world suspected anything either. The only one who was actively trying to take down JGY was NHS, who KNEW that the man had murdered his brother. I have no doubt that if LXC had 3/10

been aware of it, he would never have supported him. Not only that - as soon as there is any doubt about JGY's intentions, the man takes an objective stance! He agrees to listen to the evidence! He isn't just blindly denying what's in front of him, regardless of what that would mean for his own feelings; but of course he isn't going to blindly denounce JGY with no proof because this is his closest friend. And while he obviously trusts his brother, he also knows that LWJ's priority is 4/10

WWX, who LXC really doesn't have any reason to trust at that point? We know WWX, LWJ knows WWX, but LXC and him really haven't had that many interactions, on top of his current reputation in the cultivation world. The fact that LXC is so willing to help and hide WWX, despite knowing the dangers it might cause for his sect, and all because he trusts his brother is...a very big thing. It's more than JC would EVER do for WWX. I've also seen criticism for LWJ's punishment, which I honestly 5/10

don't understand because a) the Lan clan also has elders which probably had a big say in the punishment too, and b) LWJ DID commit a crime! It wasn't just him protecting WWX, it was him injuring dozens of members of the Lan sect! Sure, we know why he did it, but just how would it look to the rest of the sect if LXC had just excused that behaviour? Or to the rest of the world? What would it do to his brother's place in the sect if he hadn't been punished for it? I really don't think LWJ 6/10

could have gotten out of that without some form of punishment, and if LXC even had the sole say over it after all (which I highly doubt he would have with no repercussions) that was probably the best alternative to banishment, or perhaps even worse. I've seen criticism (and this is so, so strange) over him blindly accepting the story about his mother, which is so stupid because...LWJ also accepted it, LXC has no way of finding out anything about his mother, and WE as readers know nothing 7/10

about his mother! For all we know, she COULD have been in the wrong, or his parents could have had a completely different relationship from how other people perceive it; we just don't know enough to make a judgement. And then finally, I see people criticizing his behaviour towards WWX. Okay, I kind of do find this annoying too - I was frustrated when he essentially blamed WWX for LWJ's actions, because honestly, LWJ is a grown man who can make his own decisions, but...I also kind of 8/10

understand this. Because this is his BROTHER, and of course he's going to be protective or resentful when he's hurt, it's just a natural reaction to have. It's only natural, and people can't be objective all the time. And also, I think a lot of his annoyance came from him thinking that WWX knew about his brother's feelings, and was essentially mocking them by pretending to flirt with him, and honestly, from an outsiders perspective it would kind of look like that. Despite his own feelings, 9/10

He still supports LWJ in all his decisions though. It’s just so weird that there is so much criticism for LXX, when you can understand his supposed mistakes a lot more than someone like JC. But then, JC pretty much gets no criticism from the fandom. I’ve actually seen people who can’t stand LXC, but then support JC at the same time, and that is so, so weird. 10/10

The thing is, LXC has just as much reason to trust JGY as LWJ does to trust WWX. We as readers know that WWX is in the right, but LWJ, in-universe, doesn’t. He himself admits that he believes and wants to help WWX because he loves him, not because he’s certain he’s in the right. There’s actually a lot less evidence against JGY than there is against WWX for a lot of the story! Evidence that LXC as an in-universe character with his level of knowledge would have access to, I mean. LXC himself points this out; LWJ believes JGY has done these terrible things because WWX said so, not because they have physical proof; at this point in the story it very much is WWX’s word against JGY’s, so doesn’t LXC have the right to give JGY the benefit of the doubt and trust him the way LWJ trusts WWX? And even saying that, the moment he has reason to distrust JGY he revokes his access to the Cloud Recesses and is clearly upset at the idea that he could have misjudged the situation so badly. And remember, JGY’s reputation was impeccable before WWX accused him (origins aside); LXC had no reason to doubt him, but he still did, because WWX said he should and LWJ trusted WWX’s judgement. Can you imagine any other character in this novel immediately searching for evidence and acting as soon as that evidence was uncovered even when that evidence proved their long-held beliefs wrong?

And re the punishment, it was punishment for attacking the elders, not necessarily for helping WWX; thirty-three lashes for thirty-three elders badly injured. LXC couldn’t have just... let LWJ get away with attacking the elders of their clan, that would’ve been a political disaster within their sect even keeping the whole thing a secret from other sects. And honestly? Between helping the cultivation world’s enemy number one and gravely injuring the clan’s elders, it wouldn’t surprise me if LWJ could’ve been executed. Any other sect leader probably would’ve executed him for aiding WWX, but LXC couldn’t do that to his brother. Instead he sent the elders who most respected LWJ to apprehend him and bring him back before anyone else realized what he was doing. Was the whipping severe? Definitely. But considering what other punishments were on the table, I’d argue LXC was downright merciful. LWJ clearly thinks it was justified, or at least understandable, and while that doesn’t necessarily mean it was okay (I mean, WWX insists JC repeatedly trying to kill him is totally fine), I do think that should be considered. LWJ knew he would be punished when he went back; a big part of the novel is accountability for one’s actions, and I’d argue this is a part of that theme.

LXC believing the story about his mother is like... what else is he supposed to do? As you say, LWJ also seems to believe it. They have no reason to doubt it! The certainty suggests that no one (not the sect’s elders, not their uncle, not even their mother) ever brought up the possibility of it being false! When all evidence suggests that something is true and you can’t find anything to disprove it, insisting it’s false anyway will only hurt you! Of course he believes the only story anyone has ever told him when not even the woman it’s about suggested it was a lie! Leave him alone!

And the whole thing with WWX is fairly explicitly him thinking WWX knew LWJ was in love with him and chose to toy with his feelings just for fun. And also making his brother miserable for 13 years, which granted wasn’t really WWX’s fault, but we can’t fault a brother for seizing upon the most obvious target to blame for his baby brother’s suffering. From the outside it really does look like WWX was just toying with LWJ, after all; we know better because we’re in WWX’s head and know that he doesn’t know LWJ’s in love with him, and WWX corrects his behaviour as soon as he realizes, but until WWX tells them he doesn’t remember LWJ’s confession LXC has no reason to believe he’s not being pointlessly cruel. And thinking someone is deliberately using your brother’s feelings to hurt him probably makes it considerably easier to believe that person is to blame for all your brother’s suffering. I do think LXC will get past his resentment of WWX given time! His hatred of WWX is an immediate reaction to the suffering of someone he loves. You know, like JC’s desire to murder all the Wens for the fall of Lotus Pier, except considerably less genocidal and considerably more likely to be gotten over.

As for why people make excuses for JC but talk shit about LXC... I don’t know. How fandoms pick their favourite characters has always been something of a mystery to me.

#mdzs #cql #grapehate #lan xichen #lxc deserves better #anon #asks

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professorjjong · 5 years

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me rambling about mdzs (the novel) bc it’s literally six am my body woke me up at 4 am for the sole purpose of finishing it and i finished it and then started reading the post script but it was like my heart was wylie coyote it wasn’t until a few minutes after i’d finished it that i realized i was destroyed

good book

sdkfjesiofhdcklwjfioe ok wei wuxian carries like the first fourth of the book. there’s so many fucking characters and names like wtf was going on. it wasn’t made clear what wei wuxian was doing or why--and tbh i don’t think it ever really is, his intentions. like, where was he planning to go after mo village? what was he planning on doing? when he leaves cloud recesses with lan wangji, why does he stay with him at all--why not just run the fuck off? he didn’t know, at this point, that lan wangji knew who he was so why would he risk it? the one thing that was made clear about wei wuxian’s intentions after he had been brought back to life were that he did not want to be recognized, so why would he stick around with lwj?

for that first fourth, wei wuxian didn’t hesitate in where he was going or why or whatever he was just, going and doing things for no good reason and i didn’t know why and it was frustrating, following around a character who doesn’t seem to have any idea what he wants and also doesn’t even hesitate to think about it. but ugghhh he’s such an interesting character. his past, only teased, seemed super interesting and had created a man who interacted with his surroundings in a comedic and almost flippant way. it made the fantasy elements, buttload of information about cultivation and its sects and enemies as well as the sheer number of characters less intimidating--yes, because it probably wasn’t until almost halfway through that I was able to figure everything out, but i had wwx to hold onto. he’s a suuuuper strong character and was so, so fun to read about i miss him :(

lwj truly didn’t do anything for me until near the very end when the events following the siege at the nightless city were revealed. i didn’t dislike him as a character, i thought he was fine--but i didn’t think he was as good of a foil to wwx as he could have been. i mean, they’re clearly meant to be foils--one is dressed in black and the other in white. u don’t even need to know anything else aside from that information to know that they’re foils. but i don’t think lwj was a strong enough presence to really “oppose” wwx for most of the novel. honestly, he didn’t even feel present for the first, what, 3/4? it wasn’t until wwx really started developing and even acting out on his feelings that lwj stepped into prominence. the emphasis of the novel, its focus, had shifted along with wwx’s toward lwj. compared to wwx, lwj is almost colorless as a character. yes hahahahahahha more color differences between them but i think, in order for characters to really function as foils, they need to be on equal footing, if only in the framing of the novel. but they weren’t. even during the flashbacks, there was an unevenness to it. at times, lwj felt almost like an afterthought. i remember myself thinking, ‘oh, lwj is there too.’ which yeah, he is quiet, but he’s there. his presence was not always made clear, and, since wwx is such a bright beacon and such an overwhelming chaotic presence, don’t you think lwj should have been a bigger presence to properly be his foil? it’s not until the very end, truly, that the two of them are able to bounce off of each other in a very fun and dynamic way--but, again, the veryyyyyy end. like, the last two chapters very end.

aside from the plot hole i brought up in the first paragraph, there are some others, big and small. won’t bother to list them--but, and i mean maybe it’s in the additional chapters that i haven’t read yet, super upset we didn’t get to see the actual siege on burial mound. that moment would have been so fucking tense and cool and also would have just answered questions--like, was he killed as a backlash of his own power or was it jiang cheng or someone else who delivered the final blow? wtf was he thinking about as it was happening??? pls?? pls??? i want to know???

ok wait i do need to bring this up like WTF i cannot believe they did not explain wtf happend when wwx was on burial mound for three months and where the fuckkkkkkkkkkkk he learned about the dark magic. there was some throwaway line about a book and i’m just?? u expect me to believe there was jsut some crazy ass book like sitting on a tree stump among a bunch of dead-ass bodies, just waiting for someone to find it? Like seriously?? seriously?? even if there was such a fucking book who the fuck wrote it and why did they put it on the mountain and why did wwx decide that he needed to reclaim his power through it? why did he decide to use music, like the lan sect? why a flute? i have so many fucking questions!! AUTHOR!! AUTHOR!!!! PLEASE WHAT THE FUCK!!!

also ok this isn’t a “plot hole” but a... theme... hole. a theme hole. i don’t fucking know but the book does a really good job throughout of bringing up mob mentality and other social behaviors when someone becomes the “enemy” of the group. they do this first with wwx and painstakingly set up how much of it is fabrications or exaggerations or bandwagoning, etc. and even why this happened--the people were still hurt by what had happened with the wen sect and, fearful of another force building up its power, it was easy for them to focus their animosity on wwx (the fact that it was him and the remaining wen clan didn’t help either, obvs). so, we’re sympathetic toward wwx because, not only have we been following him for the first half of this novel (by the time we go far enough into the past to learn about what happened when and after he became the yiling patriarch) and because we know his true intentions are pure. he’s a good guy at the end of the day. yeah he did some really, really bad shit during the war and was using a “twisted” ability, but he was trying to help people (also this book clearly has the message that revenge = good which is,, interesting? i have certainly never read a book before that justifies revenge. usually, the morale is that revenge is never quite nice. see the count of monte cristo (the book, obviously). so, in the moral universe set up in this book, wasn’t wwx totally justified in his actions, however terrible, against the wen sect bc they destroyed the jiang sect? not saying i think that way, just that i think the story expects us to think that way). so, our set up to rumors and badmouthing by people is that it’s wrong, right? and that the other person doesn’t deserve it, no matter what they may have done? it just leads to more and more lies and should be stopped, right? we didn’t like it happening to wwx, who was also frustrated by it both in flashbacks and in the present, so, when it happens to the villain..... it’s okay? our protagonists dont’ have to rise up to defend him, even if he did do wrong? wwx just thinks ‘well, at leeas they weren’t this shitty to me’ and that’s fuckKING IT?? REALLY??

like this is the second ot last scene of the entire fucking story and that’s the fucking note it ends on? there’s nothing else?? no other perspective on responding to mob mentality that we’re going to get?? didn’t wwx die bc of mob mentality and, rather than trying to clean up his perception, he just maintained his behavior and quietly accepted being called evil???? doesn’t that mean it’s bad??? but they just?? let it happen??? again??? that’s the note?? author??? author??? is it all ok that people talk this way even when it leads to people getting killed??? author??? author??????????????

i think i got enough of my feelings out now to go read the additional chapters. peace

#rose says stuff #spoilers obvs

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