#jin guangyao stans don't try me

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

(Submission) Why do people feel so sorry for JGY and NMJ again? I enjoy both of their characters but it’s so plain that they both made their bed (the coffin) and must lie in it.

---------

Hello there. I think because many prefer to approach works and characters less from an analytical and outward standpoint,and more of a "well this is what I would do if I were in this situation instead". Which then of course leads to where I can sympathize with these men, despite the surrounding context from the story that lessens that sympathy, very much on purpose.

Yes, Jin Guangyao had a very difficult childhood due to the cruelty of classism, yet he still had a mother that loved him and wanted the best for him, and tried within her means. His love of her though did not mean he had to torture older women still living in brothel life and killing them, he did not need to condemn an entire clan to death because they called him the same as Wen Ruohan and use them once again to claim they killed his son out of hate, when it had been his own hand because of his own obsession of appearing saintly kind and untouchable to the masses of gentry he wanted to be part of fully and idolized.

He is not a working class hero that his fans try to say he is. He didn't do a thing to help civilian life within text, that is actually still pointed to be something only the Lans participate in, and Lan Wangji's own students even more so. He wanted to erase everything about his beginnings because he was ashamed and thought lesser of them, he states that he is better than those he came of.

He also manipulated his own friendship with Lan Xichen to start poisoning Nie Mingjue into Qi deviation and on page confirmation of true demonic arts. Whatever prior to his rise to power, is not an excuse for his continued desperate hold for more even after he was on top especially when he very much tried to kill his nephew who he had raised from birth twice on page. And through all of this displays no remorse for these actions other than miming very weak reasons that even a very naive Lan Xichen can see with nothing but terror at this lack of taking claim for one's actions from malice and manipulations.

As for Nie Mingjue, there is another idolatry with the idea of a strict, but kind righteous brother. When he is not even that. His own traditionalism blinds him from the actions of sympathy and he condemns an entire group of people based on hate of people that have already died, while hypocritically he sits in the same room of those that once had it. While he is proud of his own name, he does not allow the surviving Wens even that because of his hate that has no place after the war he won. He is not even kind to his own brother who he doesn't understand and mocks for not wanting to be anything like Nie Mingjue, partially out of yes, love and worry, but also because his own way of life is the only way of life. That is not tolerance and he wouldn't be even if there was some change to the external plot details.

His hate is the reason he is a mindless dumb corpse unlike Song Lan and Wen Ning, who at their core were always kind people that were strong because of their faith in kindness. Nie Mingjue did not believe in kindness but righteous zealotry and when he thought one was not adhering to his form of righteous zealotry, they were unworthy of basic humanity.

He himself has no qualms with calling Jin Guangyao as he is due to being born from a whore as if that's why Jin Guangyao is evil and cruel. He is a hypocrite in his own words as he is offended that Jin Guangyao views himself as better than lesser class individuals, yet is quick to say it's the reason Jin Guangyao is what he is. That is classic classism in verbiage. It also isn't due to the cruelty that Jin Guangyao exhibits that he cares about, it's what he views as a disgrace to any sort of "righteous" tactics that should be employed instead.

Yes, these men are very nuanced and very deeply layered, but nuance does not mean they were well meaning, kind, tolerant in action, especially when the text implies they are like many many politicians that exist in the world, and even get these same long winded metas cooing over them and making up reasons as to why they're men to be admired, loved, and coddled. Ironic really, from a sociological look into the ways of fandom speech and underlying bias from world wide isms that permeate societies.

#submission #mdzs #mo dao zu shi #I hate jin guangyao (｡･ω･｡) #nie mingjue #jin guangyao stans don't try me

[thatswhatsushesaid]

all my irreverence and shitposting aside I am genuinely alarmed by two trends I'm noticing in the mdzs fandom, tho this can obviously apply to other fandom spaces too:

younger fans (under age ~24) in general (as in I know this won't apply to everyone, don't @ me) seem to struggle with critical analyses of the canon if the analyses in question are longer than a handful of paragraphs. I understand the value of being succinct where possible since that helps with clearly communicating an idea to an audience. but there is a significant difference between presenting a succinct explanation of a complex idea, and presenting a shallow misrepresentation of a complex idea because you haven't taken the time to carefully read the source material and then think about it before drafting your response.

there's a big problem (again, predominately among younger fans, or at least those who publicly display their age on their profiles) in certain corners of this fandom with conflating a fan's sympathetic reading of the antagonist characters (e.g., jin guangyao and jiang cheng) with that fan's real world attitudes around such issues as violence against women and children, sex crimes in general, and class consciousness.

like. case in point, I just erased over half of this post because I anticipated that many people would skim over 60% of the content and jump straight to the angry keymashing. but it's worrying to me that this is most prevalent among younger fans because you guys are the ones who are up and coming in fandom spaces. you're the ones who are going to be driving these conversations. isn't it important to you to be sure that you are understanding what someone else is actually saying to you before you decide to tell them why they're wrong?

genuine request: can we collectively agree that no one in the mdzs fandom actually thinks rape, murder, corpse desecration, or child abuse is okay? can we collectively agree that, when a jgy or jc 'stan' attempts to contextualize jgy or jc's actions within the source material (or dares to draw a narrative parallel between jgy or jc and wwx), what we are not doing is trying to diminish the seriousness of rape, murder, corpse desecration, or child abuse in the real world?

if we can just reach some kind of mutual agreement on this point specifically, maybe we can move on from kicking this fierce corpse of a horse and start talking about, idk. the novel.

#do i dare put this in the tags #hmmm #i will contemplate #yeah i'm doing it #jin guangyao #jiang cheng #wei wuxian #mdzs meta

[admirableadmiranda]

jc stans really say things like lwj is almost as guilty for all the things jc is criticised for lol as if lwj tortured random people, declared wwx an enemy, participated in a mass murder that took wwx’s life, was homophobic, kicked wwx out of his home, exposed wwx to his greatest fear lmao like people literally believe lwj not quite knowing how to deal with his seemingly unrequited love when he’s a teenager or a young adult is a crime that’s equal to murder, torture, and betrayal

Does Lan Wangji ever participate in any torture? Now I haven't seen the donghua, but at least in the book and CQL, he is explicitly pushed away from the place where Wei Wuxian chased Wen Zhuliu and Wen Chao to, his fights with Xue Yang, Jin Guangyao and his own family are certainly dramatic, but he always first goes for the disabling attack, then only goes further if necessary. This is why Xue Yang is the only named character in story to die at his hands.

Sorry, little tangent cause I've seen that thrown around a few times and am confused where it even came from because Lan Wangji is explicitly very clear and concise in his actions and that includes battle. He may chop off arms, but his goal is always to end the fight with as few casualties as possible.

Also yeah... what jc stans are usually trying to do is to say "well our boy can't be proven to have done any of these things (cause they erased from their memory all the points where he did) so if you're accusing our boy of being terrible, we'll accuse your boy!" and fail to remember that A: book text and episodes are a thing and we can fact check your claims, and B: they're throwing up a strawman argument so we'll stop talking about JC and start arguing about LWJ instead.

There are some people who are very odd about LWJ out there, I certainly won't deny it. But also I don't engage with them because to be honest, in this limited time that I have to enjoy my fandom, I would much rather spend it writing fic, hanging with my friends and chatting with anons than getting into stupid arguments with people who had decided from the getgo that they were never going to listen to me anyway.

#mdzs #canon jiang cheng #lan wangji #lan wangji vs jiang cheng #asks #anon #anon asks

[songofclarity]

It’s so annoying when sexist JGY stans call Qin Su a “non-entity”. She has one good scene when she slaps JGY and demands answers from him about the death of their son, and imo there are some interesting parallels between her storyline and that of Mo Xuanyu.

Qin Su is far more than just one good scene and a slap!

I can see some parallels between her and Mo Xuanyu, but I actually see them as opposites. Jin Guangyao pulled her in because she was kind to him and useful for his ambitions at Koi Tower while he drove Mo Xuanyu off because he was a threat just by existing. The harsh way Mo Xuanyu was driven off due to accusations of incest set a precedent that the Jin don't tolerate such behavior, thus he pro-actively protected himself against any future accusations with Qin Su.

I see Qin Su as a very blatant parallel to Lan Xichen/Nie Mingjue and their relationships with Jin Guangyao. Yes, she has one good scene but it was also a scene about their life together and what happens now.

Qin Su buried her head into her arms, "Stop talking, stop talking, stop reminding me!!! I wish I never knew you, I wish that I'm not related to you at all! Why did you approach me in the first place?!" After a moment of silence, Jin Guangyao answered, "I know that you won't believe me, no matter what I say, but it was sincere, back then."

I do want to honestly believe Jin Guangyao liked her at the beginning. She was kind to him (just like Lan Xichen and Nie Mingjue were kind to him) and she never looked down on him because of his background (just like Lan Xichen and Nie Mingjue never looked down on him). She gave him a chance and accepted him and cared about him (just like Lan Xichen and Nie Mingjue had done).

Like god damn, she even agreed to have pre-marital sex with him when the family negotiations weren't looking good. For her part, I do think she loved him, innocently unaware or not that he was trying to baby trap her into getting that marriage agreement signed as plan B.

Qin Su was good and kind to him and never did him any wrong. That the public saw them both as this perfect couple, as the very standard of a respectful and caring relationship in the cultivation world, proves this. She was exactly what he needed and she gave him everything and he took everything from her in the end.

Because now she knows the truth. And we see how Jin Guangyao just refuses to see anyone's PoV except his own. He refuses to acknowledge he is a part of any problem:

Jin Guangyao, "A-Su, before you knew of it, didn't we live perfectly fine? You only felt uncomfortable and began to vomit today, now that you know. We can see that this isn't anything at all. It won't be able to do any physical harm to you. Your mind is the only thing doing all this." (ch. 47)

What happened to Qin Su isn't seen as actual harm because it's not physical. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

[Jin Guangyao,] "Lan Xichen! In this life, I've lied countless times, killed countless times. Like you said, I killed my father, my brother, my wife, my son, my teacher, my friend--of all the evil in the world, what haven't I done?!" He took in a breath, rasping, "But I've never even thought of harming you!" (ch. 108)

Not to mention Jin Guangyao's manner of killing Nie Mingjue was to get inside his head and push Nie Mingjue to insanity--which is pretty much what he also does to Qin Su by pushing her to suicide. Jin Guangyao explains she is trapped with him forever and the whole cultivation world will be disgusted and repulsed by her if the truth comes out, which it will if she tries to leave him. MDZS is full of horror moments but this is perhaps the scariest of them all because situations like this are very, very real.

Yes, her slap is powerful and her anger over her son justified, but there is so much more happening in this scene with all its parallels and revelations and insight into just how fucked up Jin Guangyao can be towards the people he claims to care about.

[Jin Guangyao,] "I'm grateful for you until the end of my life, and I want to respect you, cherish you, love you. But, you have to know that even if A-Song hadn't been killed, he had to die. He could only die. If we let him grow up, you and I…" (ch. 47)

tl;dr Calling Qin Su a non-entity while being a fan of Jin Guangyao is very funny, like are people really outing themselves like that?

#mdzs thoughts #anon #asked from above #poorly organized thoughts lol

[rynne]

First of all, I'm a Jiang Cheng stan and the ones that introduced me to MDZS are Jiang Cheng stans, Jin Guangyao stans and Xue Yang stans....I'm quite surprised when I found your blog and end up love reading your metas about WangXian and (especially) Wei Wuxian...Thanks for your hard work...

Do you mind if I ask your opinions on Jiang Cheng, Jin Guangyao and Xue Yang?

Hi there! Thank you so much -- I'm glad you enjoy the meta, because I enjoy writing it. :) I'm sorry this took so long, but I've been both considering what I wanted to say and writing it (it got long).

As for my thoughts on JGY, XY, and JC…

The thing is, I'm not generally personally interested in antagonists. There have been exceptions, but mostly I just don't care about them. I enjoy characters who want to and try to do the right thing, even when it's hard. I usually find characters who prioritize themselves or who enjoy having power over people to be pretty boring. I really only care about antagonists in terms of their impact on the story -- plot, themes, and other characters.

So I don't care about Xue Yang at all. I guess it's tragic that he ended up caring about the person he drove to kill himself, but he otherwise gets a big "meh" from me. What I find more interesting about him is what his story says about the cultivation world -- after Nie Mingjue's death, no one thinks him worth standing up to the Jin Sect about, even though he massacred both the Changs and Baixue Temple. This shows the difference that having someone actually willing to protect a demonic cultivator can make. Of course, there are limits to the parallel given the different circumstances, but I do find it notable.

JGY I find marginally more interesting, but not by a lot. Again, what I generally like most about him is what his story says about the cultivation world. Everyone at Lotus Pier after the Second Siege was very ready to believe everything terrible about him, even though WWX was right there pointing out dubious things about Bicao's and Sisi's stories. WWX himself notices with discomfort the mob getting riled up against JGY, given his own experience with the cultivation sect mob. This kind of thing emphasizes the ways in which "mob justice" is an oxymoron -- a mob wants a target, not real justice.

As for JC -- given the way he polarizes fandom, this will be...rather long.

Right now I am only going to discuss my perspective of his canon character (rather than addressing fanon/fandom). Again, I'm more interested in JC in terms of his narrative roles and the impact they have on the story, themes, and characters than I am in his personality. Given his history with the protagonist WWX, he is a pretty significant character, so he carries multiple narrative roles that can each have a lot of weight.

First, I do consider JC an antagonist for most of the story. His opposition to WWX drives the plot in key places, from the beginning of the novel to the end. The threat of JC is what makes LWJ bring WWX to Cloud Recesses:

Lan Sizhui tried to reason with him. “Young Master Mo, Hanguang Jun actually brought you here for your own good. If you hadn’t come with us, Chief Jiang wouldn’t have let you go. These past several years, he’s caught and dragged countless people back to Lotus Pier and tortured them for information. He’s never let anyone go.”

Lan Jingyi said, “That’s right. You’ve probably never seen Chief Jiang’s methods yourself. They’re downright cruel…”

(Chapter 11, Fanyiyi translation)

Cloud Recesses is where WWX's involvement in the main plot kicks off. MXTX therefore uses the threat of being captured and tortured by JC as a way to place her protagonist where he needs to be.

She does this again towards the end of the novel. When the confrontation in Lotus Pier's ancestral hall drives WWX into pain and unconsciousness, the last thing WWX expresses before he faints is his desire to leave. He had not wanted to leave Lotus Pier immediately until the fight with JC.

Lan WangJi, "How do you feel?!"

Wei WuXian didn't answer the question, "Lan Zhan… Let's go."

Go. Right now.

Don't ever come back again.

Lan WangJi, "Yes."

He'd completely lost all intention to continue the fight with Jiang Cheng.

(Chapter 88, ExR translation)

While he's unconscious, LWJ recalls his wishes and takes him away after the golden core reveal. It's the middle of the night, but the clash between WWX, LWJ, and JC is so severe that they just take a boat and go. They don't even have a goal yet -- they just want to get out of there.

And this is what leads them to Yunping in time to catch JGY. (It is further what leads Jin Ling to Yunping as well, since he went looking for WWX.)

In the middle of the story, when the novel flashes back to the events leading to WWX's death, we see what made JC switch from supporting character to antagonist and the impact that had on what happened to WWX. This switch was precipitated by a moral disagreement where the narrative clearly places WWX in the right. In previous moral conflicts, such as JC not wanting to help the other sect heirs in the Xuanwu Cave while WWX wanted to step in, the two of them still managed to come out on the same side. That is no longer the case: JC makes a clear decision not to support WWX so long as WWX will not do what he wants (when what he wants is the morally inferior position of killing or returning the Wen Remnants). JC's decision here places him and WWX on opposite sides.

That decision wasn't the sole factor in WWX's downfall, but as JGY points out, it played a big role.

"Back then, the LanlingJin Sect, the QingheNie Sect, and the GusuLan Sect had already finished fighting over the biggest share. The rest could only get some small shrimps. You, on the other hand, had just rebuilt Lotus Pier and behind you was the YiLing Patriarch, Wei WuXian, the danger of whom was immeasurable. Do you think the other sects would like to see a young sect leader who was so advantaged? Luckily, you didn't seem to be on good terms with your shixiong, and since everyone thought there was an opportunity, of course they'd add fuels to your fire if they could. No matter what, to weaken the YunmengJiang Sect was to strengthen themselves. Sect Leader Jiang, if only your attitude towards your shixiong was just a bit better, showing everyone that your bond was too strong to be broken for them to have a chance, or if you exhibited just a bit more tolerance after what happened, things wouldn't have become what they were. Oh, speaking of it, you were also a main force of the siege at Burial Mound…"

(Chapter 104, ExR)

JC's refusal to support WWX left him on his own, with no one powerful to speak for or defend him. More than that, though, JC specifically named him an enemy of the cultivation world (even though WWX had only suggested announcing his defection). Calling WWX an enemy deliberately and deceptively frames WWX's intentions more negatively. Basically, from that moment until WWX's death, no one except LWJ seems willing to believe WWX might have good or even neutral intentions. Rumors of the time reflect this:

In less than three days, almost all of the cultivators heard a terrifying piece of news: Wei WuXian, the one who defected from the Jiang Sect and made his own home in Yiling, had created the highest level of fierce corpse yet. It was incomparably fast, strong, fearless, and vicious. On top of that, its consciousness was preserved, able to win every night-hunt!

Everyone was in shock: there would be no peace anymore! Wei WuXian would definitely make these fierce corpses on a large scale, in desire of founding his own sect to compete with the cultivation world! And the many young blood of today's age would definitely be attracted by his evil, opportunist path as well, and go to him one after another. The righteous path of cultivation would have a grim future -- dark times ahead!

(Chapter 75, ExR)

People do tend to scare-monger, so we can't say for sure that rumors like these would not have spread if JC had instead said "he and the Wens just want to live on their mountain in peace" or "these Wens helped me, so they and WWX are under my protection." However, WWX's former shidi and sect leader calling him an enemy does give rumors like these more credence. It is possible that this attitude contributed to the willingness of all the sects to come together to pledge to kill him in the end.

JC was the largest contributor to the siege on the Burial Mounds (chapter 7 notes that Jin Guangshan was the second largest, after JC). He didn't kill WWX himself -- as WWX clarifies, he died from a backfire -- but it's pretty clear that the siege led directly to WWX's death.

From the battle at Nightless City, where he was there to participate in the pledge to kill WWX, onwards, JC has consistently opposed WWX and created obstacles for him. The first thing he does upon being presented with someone who might be WWX is, in fact, to try to kill him again:

On the other hand, Wei Wuxian seized the opportunity and ran.

Everyone looked on, shocked. Hadn’t he only avoided the whip because Lan Wangji had stepped in front of him and blocked it? By fleeing, wasn’t he signing his own death warrant?

Indeed, Jiang Cheng seemed to have grown eyes on the back of his head, and seeing that Wei Wuxian had left Lan Wangji’s protection, how could he give up the opportunity to strike? He raised his whip and cracked it aslant. Zidian lashed out at Wei Wuxian like a venomous dragon, landing right in the middle of his back.

[...]

Zidian had a special ability: if it struck a body snatcher, the body snatcher’s soul would immediately be peeled away from the body they had stolen. Zidian expelled the invader without exception. But this person had been whipped, yet behaved just as he did before, bouncing around as usual. Unless he really hadn’t seized the body, there was no other explanation.

Wei Wuxian thought, How useless. Obviously Zidian can’t whip my soul out. I didn’t steal this body, someone offered it to me. Actually, he practically forced it on me!

Jiang Cheng’s expression was surprised but suspicious, and the intention to whip Wei Wuxian again crossed his eyes.

(Chapter 10, Fanyiyi)

The sequence of events here is pretty clear. JC (and LWJ as well) believes that WWX is a spirit possessing Mo Xuanyu's body. JC's spiritual weapon Zidian has the power to expel possessing spirits. By whipping WWX, JC is trying to expel his spirit from his body -- effectively killing him again. This is why LWJ is so determined to protect him here. It's only through a quirk of the sacrifice ritual that JC did not succeed -- and, in fact, WWX knew all of this would be the case and is using it to prove he is not WWX-possessing-MXY. WWX actually relied on JC's intention to kill him here.

He continues to oppose WWX throughout the present-day story of the novel whenever he does appear until the very end.

JC is never the main antagonist, but this is a novel with multiple antagonists who all help drive the plot as they oppose the protagonist. Some of them, like Wen Chao, Wen Zhuliu, Jin Zixun, and Xue Yang, are antagonists pretty much throughout. Some of them go from neutrality to antagonism, like JGY and Su She. JC is, I think, the only significant one to go from ally to antagonist (and then back to just plain supporting character in the very end), but that does not make him less of an antagonist.

And the thing is, his role as antagonist impacts one of his other major roles, which is as foil to the protagonists WWX and LWJ.

A narrative foil is a character who contrasts with another, generally the protagonist, to highlight certain qualities. When both characters have generally equal roles in the story, this contrast is usually pretty neutral, but when one character acts as a foil for the protagonist, it's usually meant to show the protagonist to advantage, though it can also show off some of the protagonist's weaknesses.

When an antagonist is a foil for the protagonist, the antagonist is usually given negative qualities in order to highlight the protagonist's corresponding positive qualities. For instance, an antagonist foil might be cowardly to help emphasize the protagonist's bravery. This isn't always the case -- some protagonists are not meant to be heroes -- but in MDZS, WWX is meant to be the hero (MXTX says, in the postscript, that "[b]oth WWX and LWJ are highly ideal characters, so there wouldn't be too much dispute on their moral standing. They're perfect as the protagonists"), so his foils are generally meant to come off worse in comparison.

So basically...I think JC's role as an antagonist foil means that he was literally created in part to be bad in order to help show off how good WWX and LWJ are.

We see this with LWJ as well as WWX. For instance, both LWJ and JC played a significant role in raising two of the juniors, Lan Sizhui and Jin Ling. The impression WWX gets of both of the boys helps contrast the difference in LWJ's and JC's parenting styles.

Of Sizhui, WWX's impression is:

Wei Wuxian gave this youth a once-over. His demeanor was gentle, refined, and graceful, and the corners of his mouth were lightly upturned, as though they constantly held a slight grin. The flag formation he had overseen was impeccable, and his upbringing was not so bad either. In short, he was a highly commendable young man, and in his heart, Wei Wuxian approved of him, though it amazed him that even in a frightening place filled with uptight fuddy-duddies like the Gusu Lan Clan, there was someone who could bring up such a splendid young man.

(Chapter 2, Fanyiyi)

While the impression he has of Jin Ling is:

Wei Wuxian hadn’t expected Jin Ling to turn up here, much less that Jin Ling would be as arrogant and dictatorial as this. What’s wrong with this child? How did he become so vicious and short-tempered? He’s stubborn and arrogant, and thinks everyone is beneath him. Excellent job picking up his uncle’s and his father’s flaws—but he hasn’t acquired half a speck of his mother’s virtues. If I don’t rough him up a bit, he’ll pay for it big time sooner or later.

(Chapter 20, Fanyiyi)

WWX even draws a comparison between LWJ's and JC's mentoring styles himself:

Jiang Cheng’s next words were wrapped in thorns. “Why are you still standing there? Are you waiting for prey to rush toward you and stick themselves on your sword? If you can’t capture whatever’s living in Dafan Mountain, don’t ever come see me again!”

Jin Ling shot Wei Wuxian a venomous glare, but he didn’t have the courage to glare at Lan Wangji, the one responsible for his forced silence. Placing his sword back into its scabbard, he made polite goodbyes to the two seniors opposite him and retreated with his bow in hand.

[...]

Lan Sizhui smiled slightly at Wei Wuxian and said, “Young Master Mo, we meet again.”

Wei Wuxian pulled on the corners of his lips. But Lan Wangji opened his mouth and issued a command. It was clear and concise, free of any ornamentation. “Complete your task.”

Only then did the flock of juniors remember why they had come to Dafan Mountain. Placing any other thoughts at the back of their minds, they reverently awaited further instructions. A few moments later, Lan Wangji spoke again, “Try your hardest. No recklessness.”

His voice was low and magnetic. The heart of anyone standing near enough would undoubtedly tremble upon hearing it. The juniors obediently followed Hanguang Jun’s orders and walked deeper into the mountain forests, too afraid to linger. Jiang Cheng and Lan Zhan were truly completely different people, Wei Wuxian thought. Even the advice and the warnings they gave their juniors were completely contrary.

(Chapter 8, Fanyiyi)

As we see throughout the story, JC's parenting style towards Jin Ling is rough, angry, and frequently relies on threatening negative consequences. On the other hand, LWJ is more encouraging and prioritizes their safety over results. Under JC, Jin Ling is vicious, short-tempered, stubborn, arrogant, and has picked up all of his uncle's and father's flaws -- but under LWJ, Sizhui is gentle, refined, graceful, impeccable, highly commendable, and a splendid young man.

I have also talked before about how LWJ and JC contrast in what they do with their love for WWX.

But JC is also very significant as a foil to the story's MC, WWX. His choices are frequently contrasted with WWX's to show that WWX has more heroic qualities and a healthier mindset.

In terms of morals, WWX is consistently given the morally superior position to the one advocated by JC:

Jiang Cheng, "It served you right to be bored to death. You shouldn't have played the hero and you shouldn't have cared for such a hell of a thing. If in the beginning you didn't..."

Suddenly, Jiang FengMian spoke, "Jiang Cheng."

Jiang Cheng paused, knowing that he had said too much. He was quiet at once.

Jiang FengMian didn't look as if he was blaming him of anything, but his expression had turned from calm to more solemn, "Do you know in which ways what you just said is not appropriate?"

Jiang Cheng's head hung low, "Yes."

Wei WuXian, "He's just angry and speaking without care."

Seeing how Jiang Cheng's mouth and heart were still at odds, how he still felt defiant, Jiang FengMian shook his head, "A-Cheng, there are some things that can't be said even if you're angry. If you said them, it means you still don't understand the motto of the Jiang Sect, that you still don't…"

(Chapter 56, ExR)

I think there are several major things we see here, but I want to highlight two. First, JC simplifies the Xuanwu Cave situation as WWX "playing the hero." As we see later, with the fall of Lotus Pier all the way through the confrontation at Guanyin Temple, JC seems to have decided that WWX "playing the hero" is what led to the attack on Lotus Pier.

JC is objectively wrong. He acknowledges himself in Chapter 59 that the Wens would have come regardless of what WWX did, while WWX's actions in the Xuanwu Cave were the only effective strategy for actually getting them out of there alive -- JC had wanted to stay out of the confrontation between the Wens and LWJ-JZX, but that would most likely have led to the Wens killing everyone.

More importantly, though, JC's impulses here contrast strongly with WWX's. JC did not want to help LWJ, JZX, and Mianmian. He prioritized self-preservation over helping others. WWX, on the other hand, prioritized helping others over self-preservation, and the narrative validates his choice. JC's priorities would have led to the Wens killing all of their hostages, while WWX's decision to step in allowed all the hostages to live.

The second thing I want to highlight here is JFM's caution that some things should not be said even if you're angry. JFM isn't saying this to be cruel or because he hates JC -- the narrative even says that he did not look like he was blaming JC. But what JFM wants JC to understand is that words said in anger still matter.

JC continues to prioritize self-preservation, and this continues to contrast with WWX's more heroic decisions to help people:

Wei WuXian finally lost his temper, “Jiang Cheng! What- What do you think you’re talking about? Take it back–don’t make me give you a thrashing! Don’t forget. Who was the one that helped us burn Uncle Jiang’s and Madam Yu’s corpses? Who returned to us the ashes that are in Lotus Pier right now? And who took us in when we were chased after by Wen Chao?”

Jiang Cheng, “I’m the one who fucking wants to give you a thrashing! Yes, they helped us before, but why in the world don’t you understand that right now any remnant of the Wen Sect is a target of criticism? No matter who they are, with a surname of Wen they have committed a most heinous crime! And those who protect the Wen are at risk of being condemned by everyone! All the people loathe the Wen-dogs so badly that the worse they die the better. Whoever protects them is against the entire world. Nobody would speak for them, and nobody would speak for you either!”

(Chapter 73, ExR)

This conversation further adds "paying debts" to the moral ledger. WWX is not just helping people here, including an innocent toddler and grandmother, he is repaying the debt the Jiangs owe Wen Ning and Wen Qing. JC is the one pretty explicitly saying that he does not care that he owes them a debt -- he acknowledges it ("Yes, they helped us before"), but he still prioritizes his own self-preservation.

This conversation shows that WWX is even more morally praiseworthy. JC explains that there are strong barriers to doing the right thing, and he lets those barriers deter him. JC's decision to give up in the face of potential adversity contrasts with WWX's decision to persevere and do the right thing anyway.

Though in this case, I don't think it was primarily the adversity that stopped JC from doing the right thing, which introduces another contrast. JC does not want to help the Wens, not because it's hard, but because he holds onto his hatred and resentment of them. WWX, on the other hand, generally does not hold onto resentment very much. ​​

How people handle resentment is a major theme in this story, and one where I think JC's position as a foil is used very effectively to illustrate the negative consequences of holding onto resentment as opposed to WWX's healthier decision to let it go and move forward.

Wei WuXian, “Uh, I think it’s best if you…also stop keeping it on your mind. I know you’ll definitely always keep it on your mind, but, how should I say it…” He clenched Lan WangJi’s hand, saying to Jiang Cheng, “Right now, I do really think…it’s all in the past. It’s been too long. There’s no need to struggle with it any longer.”

(Chapter 103, ExR)

JC is a person who definitely keeps his resentments on his mind. His reputation throughout the present-day story is of a man obsessed with finding WWX again, even though WWX died thirteen years ago. He still blames WWX (and even LWJ, because WWX intervened in the Xuanwu Cave in part to protect him) for the fall of Lotus Pier (Chapter 87), and he has passed that perspective on to Jin Ling (Chapter 43). He continues to hate all Wens, even those who weren't actually related to the Wen Sect (Chapter 92). Half of what JC talks about when he confronts WWX about the core transfer is how finding out about it means he can no longer straightforwardly hate WWX for everything he continues to blame him for, even in that conversation (Chapters 102-103).

WWX, on the other hand, does not want to hold onto resentment. As he tells JC, he thinks it's best if they let it go. Holding onto resentment creates a struggle that prevents people from moving forward. We see this when he's talking to the people who came for the Second Siege of the Burial Mounds in Chapter 82 as well -- you can hold onto hatred or you can move on.

The narrative rewards WWX's path and cautions against JC's.

JC has become the kind of person who, as Jin Ling describes him, "had been cold, severe, and gloomy for years and years on end. Not a single lenient or merciful word left Jiang Cheng’s mouth if he could help it, nor was he ever willing to offer charity and kindness" (Chapter 23). He is unpleasant, and he is unhappy. And then he is punished with WWX leaving him behind and no reconciliation. His father told him that words said in anger still matter, and he disregarded that, and so he is punished with the person he consistently lashed out at deciding to stay away from him. He doesn't get a happy ending because he hasn't earned it.

WWX, on the other hand, decides to move forward. If he had wanted to hold onto grudges for everything that happened to him, he could hate almost the whole cultivation world, but he doesn't decide to do that. He could resent the Lans for their part in the siege, but instead he views them as his husband's family and makes a home with them. He decides to focus on the positive, and he is given a happy ending with the love of his life. The narrative rewards him for his choices and his mindset.

So to return to your original question -- what I think of JC is that he is a cautionary tale. He consistently picks the wrong action, the wrong reaction, the wrong priorities. Part of his role in the story is to be wrong.

And there is nothing wrong with having him do that, because he is a character in a story and this is part of why he exists.

#mdzs #mdzs meta #asks #anon #wei wuxian #lan wangji #jiang cheng #canon jiang cheng #xue yang #jin guangyao #quote heavy posts #antagonists #narrative foils #jc exists to be worse than wwx and lwj

[plan-d-to-i]

I recently came up with this thought: JC stans say that he didn't really have a choice because Sect Politics BS™ but at the same time, when you have WWX as your ally, you really need enemies? Can be called a One-Man Army and literally rises corpses with ease just by talking. Politically and military speaking, if JC kept WWX he would have more blessing than ever. Perhaps I'm saying bs, and probably I am and you are free to bonk me for my stupidity.

LMAO no bonks! You're good. It's literally in the story.

"Nie MingJue frowned, “Isn’t Jiangling still in the hands of the Wen-dogs?”

Lan XiChen, “Not since a few days ago. Currently, it is in the hands of the YunmengJiang Sect.”

A sect leader spoke, “Sect Leader Nie, I don’t think you’ve heard yet. Yunmeng’s Sect Leader Jiang is quite powerful in the area.”

Another person added, “How can he not be? Wei WuXian alone can face millions, so who’d he be scared of? He can just sit there controlling his area, unlike how we’re always running for our lives. With such luck…” (48)

&

"Jin GuangYao wasn’t swayed, continuing with a smile, “… Back then, the LanlingJin Sect, the QingheNie Sect, and the GusuLan Sect had already finished fighting over the biggest share. The rest could only get some small shrimps. You, on the other hand, had just rebuilt Lotus Pier and behind you was the YiLing Patriarch, Wei WuXian, the danger of whom was immeasurable. Do you think the other sects would like to see a young sect leader who was so advantaged? Luckily, you didn’t seem to be on good terms with your shixiong, and since everyone thought there was an opportunity, of course they’d add fuels to your fire if they could. No matter what, to weaken the YunmengJiang Sect was to strengthen themselves. Sect Leader Jiang, if only you had been nicer to your shi-xiong in public, given the impression that your bonds were unbreakably tight, making the others feel that they were no room to exploit between you two, or reacted more generous and lenient towards him after the incident, then things would not have turned out to be the way they did. Ah, speaking of which, you were also one of the leading forces during the siege of the Burial Mound…” (104)

jc stans just don't want to admit it. Just like jc is allergic to taking responsibility and is trying to shove it all on WWX or JGY or anyone other than himself. The thing is they didn't even need to actually fight the whole cultivation world and put WWX’s mettle to the test!!! jc just had to give off the impression that he wasn't a shitbag towards WWX, ready to dump him at a moment's notice. Instead dude stabbed his most powerful weapon & ally in the back bc he was mad daddy didn't praise him for wanting to let ppl die.

#mdzs #answers #jiang cheng #Wei Wuxian

[gloriousmonsters]

If you don't mind me asking, who are your favorite “villains” (or antagonists) in all of MXTX novels? (Whether you want to do a ranking or just write out in no particular order)...Sorry if you've answered this question before....Thanks....

part of me wants to do a full ranking but I feel like that's the devil talking. so I'll just name off some of my favorites.

Su Minshan is the obvious one, because he's basically taking THREE types of character i usually like a lot (villain with Failed/Gone Wrong Hero vibes; sneaky cursing & poisoning bastard energy; devoted subordinate of other villain I like) and combining them into one package.

Jin Guangyao is a close followup, tho. I'm also a huge fan of villains with incongruous personalities to their main role in the story, and appreciate that he's a genuinely well done 'villain with some good points'--genuine good balanced against genuine bad, and a lot of crunchy neutral and gray stuff in between. Also it's so common to have villains that are trying to get High In Society look down on or plan to discard of any villainous connections they have, but JGY eschews that to have genuine relationships with both XY and SMS. we stan.

...Fuck I'm gonna have to put Xue Yang third. MDZS just knocked it out of the park with its villains for me, lol. I've mentioned in the past that I've been very fond of 'slightly childish ~crazy~ murderer' character types in the past and were always disappointed with how little depth they had, so XY is a gift in that way. And every other way. The Yi City arc is one of the, if not the, best MXTX subplot of all time, and it couldn't be the way it is without XY.

Tianlang-Jun and Zhuzhi-Lang from SVSSS are right up there as well, just because they're so entertaining. A friend described Zhuzhi-Lang as being like a fairy that decides it owes you a favor so it keeps trying to help you out, but it just does it in the worst and most unhelpful ways possible. Tianlang-jun is just... such a creep, but in such a straightforward way it's hilarious instead of offputting (him dragging up a chair to (presumably) watch SQQ and ZZL fuck is one of my top funny moments from SVSSS as a whole) and both of them have an entertaining Blue and Orange Morality vibe to them I enjoy. Not to mention ZZL's extra chapters killed me emotionally 😢

Aand last but not least, can we call the Three Tumors villains? I feel like at least Ling Wen can count as an antagonist, considering that she acts as one for a chunk of the book. Ling Wen, and Shi Wudu if we can stretch the definition. (I feel like General Pei, with his extremely tenuous Token Good Teammate qualities, doesn't quite make the grade but rest assured I love him too). I just *points at top of list* love horrible people that care about each other! The truest of friendship is knowing where each other's bodies are buried, metaphorically, and Pei Ming and Ling Wen both reacting in a way that indicates they KNOW about the He Xuan business really speaks to the depth of theirs. Shi Wudu kind of hits me where it hurts as someone who came from a bad family and got out with one sibling, and Ling Wen just. Has my heart. 10/10 would bring her tea every morning and never ask about her murky past.

#replies #and nobody has asked me this before so thanks for it ^ ^ #i would have done a full ranking but... i would have taken Days #elaine2895

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

For the new followers and lurkers, I feel the need for both of our sakes, to let you know what to expect on my blog before we all commit to each other and some basic ground rules here on my humble tumblr land piece and if you as well need to block me:

1: You follow or reblog from any self titled “Anti-MXTX” bloggers with that specified carrd description, unfollow me and don’t reblog my posts please. 💜 This also involves anything do with “MXTX critical” as well.

2: Jin Guangyao stans don’t try me, I am not nice about him so just block me if you don’t enjoy that as well as me very much despising Xiyao as a ship. I generally tag anything to do with him as, I hate jin guangyao and jin guangyao stans block me. (I still hate Jin Guangyao and no this isn't gonna change)

3: I adore my submissively breedable Jiang Cheng as a joke because he is damn trash, if you portray him as best UwU jiujiu and bro evar blocking me is best for your benefit. To put bluntly, if you think Wei Wuxian was more in the wrong toward him through the plot, my meta here are not going to be for you as my sympathy for this character is low. I don't tag anything as anti jiang cheng, as I do like him as one of my favorite characters to analyze, and what I have here is simply reiterating what we are given from text and the author. No I am not an anti so if you're also looking for pure Jiang Cheng hate, that's going to disappoint.

4: I am rather critical of the portrayals of fandom tropes for MDZS (This further extends to SVSSS now given it's featured more now here too) that is horribly prevalent on Twitter and this runs the gamut of all sides. I am more than happy to expand on my thoughts on anything for this as well for any questions sent my way about what I think of "so and so".

5: I am a Wei Wuxian and Lan Xichen stan first and foremost and will make that apparent through my meta as I get rather annoyed when the points of these two are missed. Now I need to stipulate that this includes Luo Binghe, don't bother me with devil advocate arguments regarding him.

6: Don't come to my inbox because I ranted or made fun of a bad OOC fandom headcanon and it personally upset you, your bad takes upset me. Equivalent Exchange, as Edward Elric said.

With that, Call me Orion or Ava!

98% MDZS here with a few smatterings of the other MXTX novels, c-dramas, Priest’s novels, video games and shitty memes. And uhhh, lots of clothes and pretty photos.

Only other info that is needed is that I am a lesbian, mexican/latina and 30+.

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

Hello there twitter refugees! As I have seen an uptick with followers I feel the need for both of our sakes, to let you know what to expect on my blog before we all commit to each other and some basic ground rules here on my humble tumblr land piece and if you as well need to block me:

1: You follow or reblog from any self titled “Anti-MXTX” bloggers with that specified carrd description, unfollow me and don’t reblog my posts please. 💜 This also involves anything do with “MXTX critical” as well.

2: Jin Guangyao stans don’t try me, I am not nice about him so just block me if you don’t enjoy that as well as me very much despising Xiyao as a ship. I generally tag anything to do with him as, I hate jin guangyao and jin guangyao stans block me.

3: I adore my submissively breedable Jiang Cheng as a joke because he is damn trash, if you portray him as best UwU jiujiu and bro evar blocking me is best for your benefit. To put bluntly, if you think Wei Wuxian was more in the wrong toward him through the plot, my meta here are not going to be for you as my sympathy for this character is low. I don't tag anything as anti jiang cheng, as I do like him as one of my favorite characters to analyze, and what I have here is simply reiterating what we are given from text and the author.

4: I am rather critical of the portrayals of fandom tropes for MDZS that is horribly prevalent on Twitter and this runs the gamut of all sides. I am more than happy to expand on my thoughts on anything for this as well for any questions sent my way about what I think of "so and so".

5: I am a Wei Wuxian and Lan Xichen stan first and foremost and will make that apparent through my meta as I get rather annoyed when the points of these two are missed.

6: Don't come to my inbox because I ranted or made fun of a bad OOC fandom headcanon and it personally upset you, your bad takes upset me. Equivalent Exchange, as Edward Elric said.

7: I do not and will not post anons linking to other blogs, this is basic courtesy only on my part as I am not comfortable with providing direct links that are not my own or of those that I have reblogged or commented on with my additional post commentary If I get particularly annoyed enough to say something in reaction.

8: FengQing shippers can block me instead of responding to my posts, I take none of what you say into account, thank you, don't come again 😊

9: Yue Qingyuan owes nothing to Shen Jiu himself and as the plot significantly changes due to Shen Yuan, there's nothing more for him to take responsibility for by the end as Shen Yuan exonerated him from any further responsibility to move on. Don't argue this with me as any what if's are unwarranted, needless and useless semantics.

With that, call me Orion or Ava!

98% MDZS here with a few smatterings of the other MXTX novels, c-dramas, Priest’s novels, video games and shitty memes. And uhhh, lots of clothes and pretty photos.

Only other info that is needed is that I am a lesbian, mexican/latina and 30+.

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi #canon jiang cheng #i hate jin guangyao #jin guangyao stans block me (｡･ω･｡)

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

I see that you dislike Xiyao because it's abusive, but you ship Xuexiao or are at least okay with the Xuexiao ship. I was just curious as to why? I can get the psychological aspect of wanting to explore Xuexiao, but it is still an abusive ship. Especially since most people write Xuexiao as having a happy ending in fanfic or that if Song Lan never came along and "ruined" everything they could have lived happily ever after. Which isn't true because if the truth came out without Song Lan's involvement, Xiao Xingcheng would still want Xue Yang to pay for his crimes. The same could be applied to Xiyao. If truth never came out about Xiyao they could have had a happy ending.

Xue Yang lied to Xiao Xingcheng for years, used him to murder innocent people, and manipulated him to kill his very close friend which all led to XXC killing himself from grief and guilt. It's similar as to how JGY lied, manipulated and used LXC to help him kill NMJ. XY also tried to force XXC to come back as fierce corpse even though that's not what XXC would want. It's another way for him to torture and get revenge against XXC even in death.

I know people use the fact XY kept the candy, killed Chang Ping, and tried to bring XXC back as proof that he "loved" XXC, but that's not love. He liked that XXC was kind to him. He was obsessed with having XXC as his toy, to make XXC as terrible as himself is the ultimate revenge and he also gets the kindness to never received as a child. People also use the argument that if XXC just reciprocated XY's "feelings" XY could have changed and become a better person. It's like a telling an abuse victim to love their abuser more and then their abuser will magically become non-abusive. If XY actually changed or cared about XXC, he would not have killed A-Qing or used XXC's sword to kill Chang Ping.

I guess my point was JGY and XY are both abusive and manipulative. Hurting and lying to people they supposedly care about. I don't hate people who like either ship or abusive ships, it's just not my cup of tea. I'm more genuinely curious as to people hating one ship, but liking or being okay with another when they virtually are the same in terms of abuse and toxicity.

I have never bothered with exploring Xuexiao outside of it's awful dynamic, and have in no instance expressed it could ever work in any such capacity due to the lies Xue Yang had fed to Xiao Xingchen, whatever softness he held, he was trash and disturbed. There is no way that love can ever redeem him due to the harm he caused, and that is explicitly acknowledged in the book.

Xiao Xingchen himself says he will never see him as anything but scum. That is what breaks Xue Yang and it's hilariously delicious that he still can't understand that's his fault and always will be. The tragedy of Xue Yang not getting why someone he ended up adoring would disown him because of his shit is hilarious and it will never be in his benefit because he is disgusting.

Now my issue is, why is Xiyao infallible because they "know each other" and made ridiculously and disgustingly sweet in more than 95% of their material that floats around in fandom. At least with Xuexiao it is a loud minority that like to pretend it was ever the opposite. And they aren't taken seriously because that reading is ridiculous. Where as everyone does try to paint Xiyao as genuinely romantic and on par with wangxian the actual canonical gay pair what with Xiyao's nasty canonical abusive undertones.

#jin guangyao stans block me (｡･ω･｡) #I hate this pair #anti-Xiyao #ship what you want just don't make it something it isn't and try to call it a romance of beauty and could ever work in any healthy capacity

[admirableadmiranda]

I don’t get why so many JGY stans think the twist abt NHS “came out of nowhere” bc be was too “clumsy, awkward & pathetic.” Chinese literature is full of characters who try to get their opponents to underestimate them. Sun Tzu straight up says “when strong, you must appear weak” and his supposed descendant Sun Bin defeated his opponent Pan Juan by pretending to be mad.

I am sure at least some of it is being mad because they don't want to believe their pathetic meowmeow could be outmaneuvered. Nie Huaisang's manipulations are subtle, but visible on a reread or even a rewatch where they do make him slightly more blatant (and have Wei Wuxian call him out directly) in CQL.

Please, allow me to, for a moment, gush about Nie Huaisang. I'd say both, but part of my enjoyment of my lu cha biao is his inability to measure up to my Headshaker. Jin Guangyao may be an awful, awful excuse of a human being but I enjoy him as he is. A dumpster fire.

Nie Huaisang is a lovely character who understands exactly how to bend and weave with the challenges thrown beforehand. And you can see how he'll get there as early as his appearance in the Cloud Recesses classes, but it is a very fun take on the character archetype. He uses these skills to get out of classes and study in order to pursue his passions. He would rather spend his life catching birds, fishing, painting fans and enjoying art. He has this considerable skill to assess people and situations and he solely uses it to further his own pleasuremongering. I love it. I wish more of these characters would exist.

If I didn't have to work for money to support my family, I would rather live a life like his. I want to create and enjoy, not worry about working or being renowned.

But I digress. I find him fascinating because he really does not use these skills beyond furthering his own preferred life to live until the death of his beloved brother. And that is the catalyst he needs to shift from peaceful pleasuremonger to scheming mastermind who understands how to hide in plain sight. Again, Jin Guangyao never even suspected him until he was dying in the temple. I am certain if you asked his opinion of Nie Huaisang even a day before, it would have been complementary and entirely blind to the true character of a man he thought he had completely understood and subsequently written off.

As I think about it, it is quite amusing how literally something that Jin Guangyao often took advantage of is simultaneously his biggest weakness. He does not reconsider his impression of people once he thinks he understands them. He underestimates Mo Xuanyu's drive for revenge, he never considers Sisi's knowledge of him a threat and he never ever thought that Nie Huaisang had seen through his guise. He likes hiding behind his charming dimples, but he is unable to recognize when others do the same. His arrogance is very clear: he literally thinks that no one is better than he is at playing these games.

And he is wrong. And he dies for it. As he should have the first time someone saw under his mask. Jin Guangyao did a masterful job of using the blood of innocents and crocodile tears to build himself a shining palace on the sands. But just as a palace on sand should have, it fell apart the second the winds blew for in the end it had no foundation.

I unfortunately have not had much of a chance to read a lot of Chinese literature yet, but I am delighted to know that one of my favorite characters is an archetype. When you have stories that have political intrigue and power grabbing and scheming, you need characters like him. The ones who can play the game under the schemers precisely because they never look closely enough to see the seams in the character.

Nie Huaisang and Jin Guangyao both played the same game, but the Headshaker was always the superior player in the end.

#mdzs #nie huaisang #nie huaisang vs jin guangyao #jin guangyao #murder dimples #lu cha biao #asks #anon #anon asks #just me gushing over my faves again

[plan-d-to-i]

We have seen "facts and quotes from the novel" used in controversies. Recently it got to the point that the "author's words" were used in the dispute. "Wei Wuxian says that Jin Zixuan died because of his self-confidence (quoted from the novel)", "the author says that Wen Ning killed Jin Zixuan because Wei Wuxian lost control of him, which means Wei Wuxian is to blame for the death Jin Zixuan (even if he is not to blame for the situation as a whole) "(1...)

(...2)" the author confirmed that Jin Guangyao did not plan for Jin Zixuan's death, so he is not to blame for his death! " I was just trying to say that the situation on Qionqqi played one of the defining roles in the tragedy, but they didn’t want to listen to me, saying that Wei Wuxian was to blame!

lol I just block those kinds of debates right off the bat. You can't debate w jc/jgy/yzy/xy/su she etc. hardcore stans because it doesn't matter how many quotes you use when someone lacks critical thinking and basic reading comprehension and most importantly just doesn't want to acknowledge things. The ones who get it won't even debate anything- they'll be like xy is a trash goblin and I love him. Fair. Love to see it. Respect.

Now, the question about JGY's role in JZX's death was already answered w quotes here. :)

tldr: JGY’s excuse is basically : “not all of my plots have always 100% worked out so can I really be at all responsible that Jin Zixuan died in a volatile, violent situation just bc I orchestrated a volatile, violent situation and then schemed and made sure to put him in a volatile, violent situation where he died in a violent way?! *lone tear* that's crazy talk”... lol JGY is cute. I will always carry his absolutely elite skills at bullshitting in my heart.

As for the other interview iirc MXTX was asked if there was something else at work at Qiongqi path that caused Wen Ning to hit Jin Zixuan and she said she may have planned something before but no. Ultimately it is WWX not in full control of himself. I don't think anyone disagrees w this? WWX certainly does not try to evade responsibility

He spoke, “… But even then, I should be the one going. I was the one who made the corpses kill the people. Why would the knife go instead of the murderer?”

It was WWX running on adrenaline in a life and death situation and Wen Ning reacting through their connection. However, any person w two braincells can grasp that his reaction doesn't happen in a vacuum. WWX didn't walk up to Koi tower on a sweet spring day, admire the flowers, and stab Jin Zixuan while he was sipping tea. WWX was ambushed by Jin Zixuan's cousin, after being invited to Koi tower by Jin Zixuan, and here comes Jin Zixuan, takes his cousin's side, because he never liked WWX, and demands WWX surrender first and turn himself in... and then lunges at him after being clearly told to stay back... Love and light to JZX but 🥴🙃🌝 ?~?!?!!

"Collecting himself, he spoke, “Tell Wen Ning to stop first. Don’t let him continue his rampage and make the situation worse than it already is.”

Wei WuXian’s voice was coarse, “… Why don’t you make them stop first?”

Relentless shouts and roars came from all around them. Jin ZiXuan raged, “Why are you still so stubborn at such a time? When everyone calms down, you can follow me back to Koi Tower to explain things and answer some questions. With everything clear, if you aren’t the one who did it, of course you’ll be fine!”

Wei WuXian, “Tell him to stop? As soon as I tell Wen Ning to stop right now, the arrows would fly straight at my heart and I wouldn’t even die a whole corpse! And you think I could explain things at Koi Tower?”

Jin ZiXuan, “They would not!”

Wei WuXian laughed, “They would not? How can you ensure it? Jin ZiXuan, I have a question—when you invited me at first, did you really not know about their plan to kill me?!”

Jin ZiXuan paused for a second before he raged, “You! Wei WuXian, are… are you mad?!”

Wei WuXian was suppressing a blazing flame of hatred. His voice was cold, “Jin ZiXuan, move away right now. I won’t touch you, but you’re not going to provoke me either.”

Seeing that he still refused to yield, Jin ZiXuan suddenly lunged forward, as if trying to hold him down..."

To say nothing of what WWX had been facing from the start there:

Wei WuXian was instantly alarmed, whispering, “Let’s go!”

Just as he turned around, Wen Ning raised his hand to catch something.

It was a fletched arrow that came right for the middle of Wei WuXian’s chest!

Wei WuXian abruptly looked up. Many people emerged from countless hiding corners on both sides of the valley. There were over three hundred of them.

...

Jin ZiXun waved his arm. All of the disciples placed their arrows on their bows, aiming at Wei WuXian and Wen Ning who were at the bottom of the valley. Wei WuXian lifted Chenqing to his lips as well. The shrill note of the flute ripped apart the silence of the valley.

However, a moment later, no reply had come. Jin ZiXun, “We cleaned the entire area out a long time ago, waiting for you to come. You won’t get any helpers no matter how much you play. This is the burial ground that we’ve prepared just for you!”

WWX had absolutely no reason to trust Jin Zixuan after what happened. Jin Zixuan clearly had no control over Jin Zixun or that situation- which WWX points out. For Jin Zixuan to demand that WWX surrender and trust him after his cousin lured him there w his invitation and ambushed him and while he's not trusting WWX, is completely absurd and unjust.

#mdzs #answers #Jin Zixuan #Jin Guangyao #Wei Wuxian

[plan-d-to-i]

I feel like the fandom loves to excuse the villains and their shitty behavior because they had bad childhoods. JC and JGY fans love to cry that their fave has "daddy issues", XY stans cry that he was an orphan who was never given love ect. and so all of their crimes should be forgiven because they have childhood trauma. Honestly a lot of the characters had terrible childhoods or something traumatic happen to them and they don't come even close to behaving like the villains. I mean a whole WWX exists and he went through way more trauma than anybody else and he's one of the most morally sound people in the novel. Nothing wrong with liking a character, but don't try to justify or excuse their actions because of trauma. Having a shitty childhood does not give you the right to be a shitty person.

Absolutely. I think it's one of the cheapest excuses to be honest. Why do unrelated strangers have to suffer bc someone had a shitty childhood? How does that make sense? Don't get me wrong the candy story about Xue Yang as a kid twists my heart; Jin Guangyao suffering watching the cruelty with which his mother was treated, powerless to do anything about it likewise, but once they were no longer vulnerable they chose the kind of people they wanted to become. They chose over and over again. I have even less sympathy for jiang cheng who largely was the architect of his own misery in his childhood by giving the worst parts of his nature free rein. He never had to fear not having food or shelter. His mother was a horrible venomous woman, but he had YanLi favoring him, and in spite of how his stans try to twist it, his father only tried to gently guide him along. jc chose to echo YZY's world views and rhetoric to a t HIMSELF -Don't help anyone. Only help yourself. Balme everything ever on Wei Wuxian- and then was mad his father didn't praise him for it!

Wei Wuxian was left orphaned not even knowing what happened to his parents when he was four or five and spent four years on the streets, freezing, starving and being mauled by dogs fighting for food. Then he got to Lotus Pier where YZY had to be a venomous piece of shit, and make it her life's purpose to torment him, punish him for every imagined infraction and trash talk his dead parents.

Jiang Fengmian’s wife, Yu Ziyuan, had never been interested in having a conversation with him at all. If she didn’t whip him a few times and tell him to get out, kneel at the ancestral shrine, and keep far away from Jiang Cheng, he already considered that pretty good. (Chapter 29)

If Wei Wuxian hadn't made a conscious choice to see the best and forget the rest in the time he spent in Lotus Pier how miserable would another type of person have been in his place?!!

Someone asked, “Clan Jiang’s Lotus Pier has to be a lot more fun than this, right?”

Laughing, Wei Wuxian said, “Whether it’s fun or not depends on you. There are definitely a lot fewer rules, and there’s no need to wake up so early.” (Chapter 13)

How much carte blanche in terms of bad behavior should everything he went through have given him?! Instead not only is he a nice guy regardless but people in this fandom are actually pressed he didn't remain jc's servant for life after jc was already responsible for his DEATH once! They're try to excuse everyone who was shitty, but get mad that WWX was heroic...

#mdzs #answers #Wei Wuxian #Jin Guangyao #Xue Yang #jiang cheng

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

You follow or reblog from any self titled "Anti-MXTX" bloggers with that specified carrd description, unfollow me and don't reblog my posts please. 💜 This also involves anything do with "MXTX critical" as well.

I guess I should do the friendly bit of this after it has been uhhh... over a month lol.

Update: Call me Orion or Ava!

98% MDZS here with a few smatterings of the other MXTX novels, c-dramas, Priest's novels, video games and shitty memes. Jin Guangyao stans don't try me, I am not nice about him so just block me if you don't enjoy that as well as me very much despising Xiyao as a ship. I adore my submissively breedable Jiang Cheng as a joke because he is damn trash, if you portray him as best UwU jiujiu and bro evar blocking me is best for your benefit. (Please do I beg you actually to spare me from rolling my eyes and having to be the one to block). And uhhh, lots of clothes and pretty photos.

Only other info that is needed is that I am a lesbian, mexican/latina and 30 (ewww that old person age for tumblr how dare)

#this is my nice warning

[plan-d-to-i]

I just got hate bc I don't like jyl. Apparently, it's misogyny (even tho I like wq and mianmian) bc ''hating female characters is trendy'' and ''every fandom always has this thing where everyone has to hate the female characters'' and when I tried to explain that no, actually, I just don't like useless characters, male or female, they called me a liar bc I don't hate lxc? like, lxc was kinda a himbo but he was super talented???

It's not the first time this happen, but the last time it was a yzy stan so I thought it was just crazy talk, but alas, it seems that we can't dislike any characters as long as they're females ┐(￣ヘ￣)┌ Then one of their friends jumped in with a super long rant about how their family situation was so similar and how they were the jyl in the situation and they lost one of their sisters bc of it so they totally relate to her and can't help but be soft on her bc they're sure she felt the same things they did, and I was like...yk they're fictional, right?

Just. Let me dislike the super boring and so-useless-she-ends-up-being-harmful character in peace, ffs

"Then one of their friends jumped in with a super long rant about how their family situation was so similar and how they were the jyl in the situation" - this would've been an instant block moment for me.

People in this fandom constantly try to argue with their personal life and trauma dump on strangers like they're chatting about the weather... MXTX doesn't know them, or their sister, or their mother, or their bother, or their father, or their uncle, or their dog, or their imaginary friend. So why the hell are they featuring in a discussion about the fictional characters she created!?

I also don't see the YanLi/LXC comparison. I've always seen her and jc as the REALLY second rate Wen Ning/Wen Qing respectively. People act like LXC is an asshole for not immediately turning on JGY but it's natural he would have reservations when he had seen and heard him slandered and maligned during their entire acquaintance based on the circumstances of his birth. They're like : omg he was so elitist 🤪, when his treatment of JGY, the son of a prostitute who ppl didn't even want to drink tea from, is the opposite. The point is in spite of his reservations LXC still listens to the word of the most wanted man in the cultivation world and his enamored little brother!- just saying this is how things stand from LXC's pov, naturally in my pov LWJ and WWX have done nothing wrong ever <3. He's ready to twist JGY's arm to be allowed in the secret room. He stashes WWX in the Hanshi, and has him treated in the Cloud Recesses. He shows WWX the forbidden room in the library!!!! so they can investigate! People get mad he didn't straight up believe LWJ but it's not LWJ he doubts:

He looked at Wei WuXian, “You trust Young Master Wei, while I trust Jin GuangYao. The fact that Brother’s head is in his hands, neither of us have seen it with our own eyes. We only believe in what another person says based on how much we know about them.” (Chapter 63)

I think there are so many sweet LXC moments too, where it's clear he pays attention to LWJ, the things that he likes and that interest him. How he's happy for Wangji when he brings MXY to the Cloud Recesses and doesn't question him or try to control him. How he guides him to keep his rabbits even though pets are not allowed. How he tried to find a dizi for LWJ when he's drunk and upset. How he doesn't taste the Lotus seeds LWJ brought back from Yunmeng but is just happy his little bother is happy. Speaking of the lotus seed pods LWJ mentioned them once and :

Lan XiChen, “I heard you mention lotus seed pods yesterday. Uncle happened to have them be brought up the mountain today. Do you want some?”

Lan WangJi, outside the window, “I have, already.”

LXC may not be a manipulative mastermind like JGY and NHS [fondly] but he's still a talented, powerful cultivator. LWJ enjoys a great degree of independence in the Clan yet he trusts LXC and knows he can go to him with his concerns. It doesn't ever feel like WWX has that space with YanLi for honest communication when he's expected to always be smiling...

YanLi is obviously not evil but she's boring and mediocre and no amount of internet strangers projecting on her will make her or her soup more interesting to me.

#mdzs #answers #Jiang YanLi #Lan Xichen #Wei Wuxian #Lan Wangji

[admirableadmiranda]

Hi, sorry in advance for this rant bcs i just saw this take that made me go through a thousand stages of what the fuck. Tldr someone said that wwx and jc are two sides of the same coin and one can’t live without the other and im just?? For jc yeah i can see that but wwx?? Like.. how?? I dont hate jc (novel) but i do abhor this fandom little meow meow that he’s become. Anyways, they also said that life was a little more unfair to jc because he didn’t get the happy ending that wwx got and i mean... wasnt his character arc more than enough?? ppl do know that happy endings are not a requirement for every character, right?? these ppl do know that lxc and a bunch of others didnt get their happy ending too right?? they know that jc isnt the main character right???? (i sincerely doubt it) it’s so infuriating to see how his “stans” these days are pushing so much for him to have this “protagonist halo”. And tbh, isn’t it insulting to their “poor” jc that they’re making him seem still obsessed over wwx when he himself already said in the end that ppl should go back to where they belong and that he cant believe event after all these years, he still wants wwx to acknowledge him? Side note, jc lead a MASSACRE on innocent people and did wwx ever demand apology from him? No!! And I personally enjoyed his arc so much because he’s turned into a character who’s trying to finally stop obsessing over the past and his shixiong and yet these stans keep pushing this narrative that he hasn’t moved on at all like what the hell give him a break?? He’s done with the past and he wants to MOVE ON. Yet y’all are there making him seem like an obsessed poor puppy goodness me.

It's okay Anon, I invite your rant. Come tell me about how much it sucks that Jiang Cheng stans are taking a somewhat interesting character and stripping him of all of that.

Jiang Cheng does get a pretty happy ending by Modaozushi's standards, he's still alive and in a position to make different choices. That's way more than most characters get! Especially given his position in the story! He's one of the key antagonists, his actions directly contribute to pretty much every negative event that comes through. Xue Yang and Jin Guangyao both were killed and deservedly so, because they would not stop hurting people. Jiang Cheng is given another chance to prove he could be better if he wants.

And it is very insulting in many ways how they want to take away his one good decision to let Wei Wuxian go. Because while some stans seem to think that he's soft and fragile and didn't do any of these things, plenty of them just want him to continue to hurt everyone around him without regard. And his journey throughout the story really is learning that his words have consequences. His actions have reactions. If you continue to hurt and berate and abuse people, they will eventually want nothing to do with you. And you cannot change that. Jiang Cheng realizes that he cannot keep tying Wei Wuxian to him and everything is too broken to be fixed and lets it go. That's pretty huge for characters like him. It makes me upset that they refuse to acknowledge that, or blame Wei Wuxian. Jiang Cheng's arc ends with him not blaming him any longer. His stans just don't get him.

I'm sorry you're having a hard time enjoying Jiang Cheng as he should be in this fandom. He is a less interesting character when the stans get their hands on him. I would highly suggest continuing to come talk to me (who is less bothered by JC as long as my poor Wangxian aren't suffering at his characterization) or even better, @jiangwanyinscatmom, the most trustworthy fan of Jiang Cheng around as well as fabulous person in general. She will happily talk to you about who he is and how we should really care for him if you need a friendly ear.

#mdzs #jiang cheng #canon jiang cheng #asks #anon #anon asks #hanging out in the trash heap with sempai