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un-local · 2 years

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On Rogier:

Rogier’s a hell of a character. I’m confused by his characterization in some places as like, a dorky scrawny little nerd who got his ass handed to him immediately, just a soft friend, uwu. (Most of this is for humor’s sake obviously. No hate—I just feel like trying to figure out what makes Rogier tick, so I’m using the notion as a convenient jumping off point. Frankly, I had no other idea how to begin this ordeal of a post.)

PREMISE:

I’d like to examine some aspects of his characterization, how a pro like him got afflicted with Death Blight, and what I see as part of the tragedy of his character. I’m using the in-game interactions we have with him and a few other characters as basis for this, as well as a few relevant item descriptions.

[Wordcount: ~3000]

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BACKGROUND:

First we meet him, he can be summoned to help with Margit at the gates of Stormveil. Later, he can be found deep within Stormveil, in the chapel on the ramparts. Here, he talks about how he’s looking for something, when he’s “not hot-footing it from the troops, that is.”

For him to have made it this far, we can safely figure he’s a strong sorcerer, and his rapier implies that he’s skilled with the blade as well.

From Rogier’s Rapier: “...Signature weapon of the Sorcerer Rogier. High dexterity is required to wield the blade to its full potential, but mastery is a sight to behold…”

He’s said to be proficient in both, and he mixes the two rather gracefully, I’d imagine.

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CONTRACTING DEATH BLIGHT:

Now, sometime after this, he gets injured and becomes afflicted with Death Blight. But rather than that being a byproduct of inexperience or weakness, it strikes me as recklessness.

The fact that he’s in Stormveil at all is evidence of his more cavalier attitude towards his own safety, at least when it comes to his research. (“This place is bristling with Tarnished hunters, you know (...) Not exactly a place I’d stroll into without a purpose in mind.”)

Rogier’s going through great lengths to seek answers. And given that this is his field of study, he’s got to be familiar with the signs of overexposure to Death Blight. And yet, he pushes past the signs of buildup, to such an extreme that it “suffuses” half of him with death. [1]

How did he, of all people, manage such an oversight?

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ROGIER’S FIXATION:

Rogier is a man possessed with a need to know more: just a little closer, just a little longer, just a little more. What he says in the Roundtable Hold (post-injury) shows more-or-less where his priorities lie:

“Mm, looks like we both got what we wanted out of Stormveil, didn’t we.”

That’s not to say he’s fine with the injury he sustained, tersely calling it “far from ideal,” in a different line—but whatever Rogier found, it was deemed worth the substantial price he paid to find it. He is consumed with a need to know more, and is therefore reckless with himself in his pursuit of understanding.

This isn’t the only time we see mention of this fierce dedication to learning more:

“... I’ve spent many an hour scouring the archives for knowledge of that fateful plot.”

Truth be told, this fixation on the nature of death and undeath is just about all we see of Rogier’s character. We know nothing substantial of his history, his hobbies, his past travels…[2] The most he tells us is that used to be friends with D, but no more, “though that’s hardly an uncommon fate between two friends.” [3]

But when he gets the Black Knifeprint, his entire demeanor changes. He no longer sounds as aloof as he had when discussing D. He literally begs us to borrow it. And when he returns it and shares his findings, you can practically hear the intensity of his focus in his voice:

“... And then, all will be laid bare. I will have the answers I have sought for so long.”

He asks the player to get the cursemark from Ranni’s original body. (And he’s seemingly done some research on where she might be, even if the specifics evade him. He fires off a bit of Carian intel when asked of her whereabouts.)

When asked why he wants this cursemark, he says:

“...The very notion of life in death defies the Golden Order. By D’s account, these defiled fiends must be expunged. But truth be told, I seek the cursemark to save them. (…) I discovered something in my examination of the Night of the Black Knives. These souls have committed no offense. They have every right to life, only, they happened to touch a flaw in the Order.”

So now, we have something of a motivation for him, though what specifically made “saving those who live in death” his purpose is—as far as I know—never mentioned. [4]

He asks the player pledge their service to Ranni so they can “take a poke around on the sly,” which he knows could be dangerous. But how he words his request sticks out to me:

“Ah, only in order to get what we want, of course.”

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“WE,” AND WHAT IT MEANS FROM ROGIER:

The use of “we” is new. Before this, despite his reliance on the player, it’s always been about Rogier, and Rogier alone:

“I seek the cursemark…”

“I’d like you to procure it for me…”

“I will have the answers I’ve sought…”

The sudden use of “we” isn’t necessarily unfounded—the player has been doing Rogier’s bidding for this long—but the thing about Rogier is that he’s rather distant. His friendly and easy-going demeanor seems to be to some degree a facade, and D says as much. (“Don't let his easy air deceive you…”)

So the use of “we,” after all this, and referring to it as “our agenda…”

It sticks out to me because (since it’s a new development) it seems to imply a stronger trust, one I think is much rarer for Rogier. I think to understand this, we must first understand a major circumstance of Rogier’s life: his detachment and isolation from others.

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UTTER DETACHMENT:

From his Spellblade Set: “Rogier spent his entire life behaving with utter detachment. No one noticed the anger, grief, regret, or fear that existed along with it.”

About D’s thoughts on his true goal: “If D knew what drives me now, he would surely boil over with rage. Or perhaps, he would even feel some pity. But no need to fret, none of that will come to pass. I can tell a good lie when I need to.”

Rogier omits truths and tempers his own emotions on matters, seemingly doing the former to a major degree.

But then, he suddenly goes and lets the Tarnished a bit further into the fold. No longer are they just a passing accomplice to his studies, but something (a little) more involved: a teammate, an ally, a partner in his aims. So what’s going on, and what exactly have we, the player, done to earn this?

…Well, we cleared out a crypt and asked some questions about what Rogier’s found in his studies. And let him borrow an artifact for a bit.

Now, to us, this might not seem like much. But to Rogier, this seems to have meant much more.

Fia, after lending the Black Knifeprint to Rogier: “I heard that you lent a hand to dear Rogier. He seemed positively elated.”

Let’s try to see this from Rogier’s perspective, then.

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DETACHMENT BEGETS LONELINESS:

Rogier is deeply lonely. And I think he has been, for a very long time.

Meeting him for the first time in the Roundtable Hold: “Time can move rather slowly, stuck here, you know. A little conversation goes a long way.”

This loneliness is a natural byproduct of his refusal to let anyone get too close. I think emotional isolation cultivates a fierce need for someone to listen to you—for someone to behold you, the full you. To see you for what you are, rather than whatever veneer you adopt when you face the world.

This seems to be something Rogier has been denying himself for a long time. Based on his Spellblade set and D’s dialogue, Rogier’s been presenting only the facade of the laid-back scholar, the inquisitive sorcerer, the friendly wanderer for some time.

I don’t think many people have bothered to look further. And when they have, I wonder if they liked what they found. (Consider D’s present revulsion, for example.)

To carry the burden of the self for so long, all alone, is both a herculean effort and an exercise in misery. To be stuck tending to your own “anger, grief, regret, and fear” in solitude for too long…it can seem to exacerbate those emotions. It can even begin to feel as though one is losing touch with what is true and what is felt. I think many people’s time in social isolation these last few years can attest to that.

The kicker is, the longer it goes on, the harder it can be to let those true feelings show. (Edit: as in to allow or forgive oneself for opening up, I should say.)

The fact that Rogier disclosed as much as he did to the player in his time knowing them was (perhaps in some ways) a sign of his trust. [5]

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HOW THE TARNISHED BECAME PART OF “WE”

With that as background, enter the player.

The player has listened to Rogier. First, to his comments and warnings about the castle, but now, to much more personal things—his convictions, his discoveries, his intentions.

The player listens to Rogier as he rambles on about the fate of Godwyn. They lend him the knifeprint and listen as he recounts the Night of the Black Knives. Later, they listen again as he details Ranni’s involvement in it all. As important as these topics are to Rogier, they are also impersonal. Really, the worst that can happen is someone’s eyes glaze over.

But then, Rogier takes a bit of a risk: he talks of his more controversial philosophies, ones that may have gotten him scorn in the past. He says there’s a flaw in the Order, and that people are being unjustly punished. He says the Order is twisted, and maybe he could figure out how to fix it, if only he fully understood how it came to be.

The player seems to take it well enough.

The player’s continued aid has been a silent endorsement of all of these aspects of him: his philosophies, intentions, and so on. The Tarnished—the one that can still see grace when he can’t—has seen fit to help him, even after he began to share his true nature.

The player’s support of Rogier’s studies has been a (perhaps unwitting) support of Rogier himself. To him, it’s been proof of sorts—that he’s not a madman, or a “piteous fellow” who was once wise and clear of mind, but is no longer. That he hasn’t fallen quite so far. It’s a kind of relief you can’t really generate for yourself, rather, it comes solely from the support of others. And it probably meant a lot more to Rogier than he ever let on.

That support, and what it might have meant specifically to Rogier, can help clarify why he seems to hold us in the high esteem he does by the end of things. (“But I know you've got what it takes. Quite possibly the only one, in fact.”)

But Rogier is a man long incapable, or unwilling, to share the depth of his true thoughts and feelings. So whatever he thinks of us, he simply says:

“I know you've got what it takes. Not only are you a superb fighter, but people want to trust you. I've seen it.”

Rogier keeps people at a distance. He makes a habit of not revealing too much of himself, if he can help it. And it’s a hard habit to break. But the player, after all they’ve done for him…

At the end of it all, he doesn’t keep them quite as far away as everyone else.

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CONCLUSION:

Rogier has spent so long in the periphery of others' lives in his pursuit of knowledge. So much so, that what the player does is possibly the most he’s gotten from anyone in a long time. And while I wouldn’t say the player is ever really able to get “close” to him in-game, I think by the end of it, Rogier has allowed them to see more of him than anyone else in quite some time.

I think that’s part of the tragedy of his character.

I think it’s a tragedy that he devoted so much of his life pursuing something, seemingly at the expense of everything else, only for it to kill him before he can see it all come to fruition.

I wonder what made him care so much. I wonder what drove him from his life in (implied) aristocracy to this. I wonder how long he’s been wandering alone.

I wonder what rage and grief and despair he’s running from, or that he’s trying to fix. Or perhaps, it’s what he’s using as fuel as he throws himself into his research with such abandon.

To me, Rogier’s a hell of a character, and quite an enigma.

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ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS

[1]

This is assuming that overexposure to a “contaminant” is the cause of Death Blight—that the face under Stormveil is part of Godwyn’s passive “cancer-like” spread, and is a biohazard of sorts to be near. I personally have doubts that his injury was an intentional act of Godwyn. (But that’s as good as unfounded, so don’t let me kill your fun here.)

On a similar note: the “spike” implied by his bloodstain is part of the general deathblight/instant death animation. I’m conflicted if such a thing truly happened to him in the event of his injury, or if it was just a matter of in-game assets being used to get a point across. A question for another day. (Zullie The Witch’s video, linked in the sources below, is an interesting watch if you’re trying to figure out the exact nature of his condition for yourself.)

[2]

Technically, this lack of non-plot relevant character traits is true for most all characters in the game, but my point still stands I think.

[3]

I never saw anything in-game about what actually went down between these two. Whatever it was, it was enough to cause D’s opinion of Rogier to take a nosedive. (See D’s mention of Rogier in the Roundtable Hold)

If I had to hazard a guess, it was this “flaw” in the Golden Order that Rogier found that was the main catalyst for their diverging paths. Or possibly even just the flexible nature of it, I really don’t know.

Rogier on Glintsone Sorcery: “...Fascinating, isn't it? That the Golden Order was pliable enough to absorb practices that contradicted itself in the past. With the Order broken, twisted, and in need of repair, such adaptability is more important now than ever.”

D’s faith is very strong, and Rogier digging around for the “cause” of this crooked world (and attributing it to the Order) seems like a recipe for philosophical/religious disagreements aplenty. Especially if Rogier is making good points.

(To help illustrate this hypothetical: Have you ever tried to convince someone of progressive ideals? Bear with me here:

Sometimes, part of the reason they’re so vehemently opposed is that to accept them, they have to accept that they were the bad guy in the past, or have otherwise acted/were complacent in a way that’s harmful under this new framework. It can be a very tough pill for people to swallow, and a major barrier to changing minds. Strength to any in that boat currently.)

With that phenomenon in mind, if Rogier is right about the undead’s innocence, then what does that make D for eliminating them so mercilessly? It seems plausible that if D followed the logic that far, he would get defensive, and even become convinced that Rogier’s logic is faulty, and apparently, that he must have been “seduced by Those Who Live in Death.”

For these two, the concept that the undead may be innocent seems like an argument waiting to happen.

Also: Though Rogier’s delivery of their current estrangement is relatively neutral and aloof, I doubt that’s how he really feels. I think he’s carried the pain and regret of the rift between them for a long time.

Also Also: Just because I didn’t see anything about Rogier and D in-game having a closer history doesn’t preclude that from being the case. This reading in no way debunks that one, and if anything, it can be used to better understand why they split ways in the past. Or even how they might reconcile, if that’s what you’re rooting for. Don’t let me kill your fun here.

[4]

I’ve seen theories that it was Fia that set Rogier on this path, the evidence being that she mentions holding him/him being “abed,” that they have a shared goal of finding Ranni’s half of the cursemark, and that he’s one of her champions in the Deeproot Depths. However, personally, I’m not entirely convinced by this. (Mostly because it’s a real bummer to me, I admit.)

According to SmoughTown’s video on Godwyn: “Fia appears to take a portion of the vitality of champions she embraces, and summon them as champions to defend the prince of Death, akin to the practice of Carian Puppetry… To be clear, these are akin to puppets. These blue manifestations are the same color as the Carian Puppets. They are not the actual champion themselves being summoned… rather an imprint of them…” (1:20:38)

I figure Rogier was already well down the rabbit hole before meeting Fia. It’s definitely something Fia benefited from, and possibly even stoked the fire on, but I have reservations about her being the catalyst for his scholarly pursuits. But honestly, it’s anyone’s guess. Again, don’t let me kill your fun here.

[5]

It is worth noting that Rogier likely had himself figured for a dead man in the Roundtable Hold. That probably helped facilitate his willingness to be a little more open, which greased the wheels on all the rest.

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SOURCES

Elden Ring - Rogier Dialogue Compilation (https://youtu.be/EbTt4y1bEVc)

Elden Ring Lore | Godwyn Prince of Death (https://youtu.be/07WqJrEY7zQ)

Rogier's Wiki (https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Sorcerer+Rogier)

D's Wiki (https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/D,+Hunter+of+the+Dead)

Fia's Wiki (https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Fia)

Zullie’s video on Death Blight and her theories on it, where you can get a closer look at the animation for the effect, as well as Rogier’s condition in the Roundtable Hold: (https://youtu.be/7VwKLJvtOdg)

My rampant delusions, of course.

#again. not super groundbreaking but i have 2 many thoughts on him and i had to get some of them out. consider this post an exorcism of sorts #so here i am #hopefully the formatting isnt too whack let me know if it is #(/▿＼ ) NO ONE LOOK AT ME I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IM DOING #grew up reading indepth posts like these...want to give back #really hope im not missing anything too egregious #let me know if i did ig #anyway enough from me #sorcerer rogier #rogier #elden ring #is this a meta? or an analysis? is there a difference? what does language matter when were a rock in space? does the soul exist? lmao #who give a shit #hare posts #hare writing #hare ‘meta’

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aeide-thea · 8 months

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have been reading fic & thinking abt my relationship to fic, which is of course also among other things a mirror of my relationship to my own psyche, and like—i think all the discourse abt its being ~internalized misogyny~ to mostly/entirely read m/m is not ultimately, whatever the truth of it, all that helpful, either to readers or to Women! but of course that doesn't stop me from feeling weird guilt abt the fact that i don't read more f/f than i do, because if there's anything i love to do, it's feel unhelpfully bad abt myself on the slimmest of pretexts…

however! i did end up reading some f/f earlier, specifically transfem f/f, and it got me thinking—basically what i'm usually mostly reading fic for is the romance/sex, right? like, don't get me wrong, i love when a fic gives me a gorgeous double helix of, like, casefic and romance twisted together, that's ideal, but fundamentally most of the time the feeling up is what i sat down at the table to eat. so in a complex aegosexual way it's a fantasy i'm—not projecting onto, exactly, i don't want to be one of the people in it; but, like, lurking in the wings of with eyes big love-crumbs, to steal a phrase from a relevantly-named poet. :) and so it's no wonder that mostly i don't want to read cisfemme4cisfemme stuff, because that's not a dynamic that feels like it has any room for me, or even like i'm particularly welcome in the room. but like. if it's trans women? i'm there, i love that for them and for me. if there's a butch? i might get tripped up by our differing lenses on gender feelings and stub my toe a little but even so i'm probably here for it. (thinking here abt that one butch/femme geraskier ~cisswap which is, like, a gorgeous bruise i keep periodically pressing. <3)

so really it's just like. shocker: i'm not personally moved by fantasies abt romance which feature conventionally feminine cis women whom i don't personally find relatable or sexually desirable! and when i put it like that, it really instantly dissolves the weird useless discourse-induced guiltgunk. like. give me a woman who's, idk, tall and charismatic and strong and clever and talented at something (though honestly it's like that siken revised tweet, a lot of those characteristics are ultimately negotiable!), like women i've historically crushed on irl, and then give me a pairing for her that's like. another woman who's also enough of those things, or a man who's—honestly the kind of m/f i'm open to would be its own whole post bc holy shit am i fussy, it very much does exist but for now let's just stick a pin in that one—or somebody nonbinary, which… idk that i've ever actually seen nb/f in fic? i'm sure it exists! but i'm not sure it exists in any fandoms i've been into. pondering the question did get me really thirsty for a good 'farmgirl (of the luke skywalker variety) is absolutely stunned-and-ringing-like-a-struck-bell captivated by confident flamboyantly genderqueer love interest (example wanted)' dynamic, though…

#(this is entirely unrelated to the actual topic but every time i use a possessive to modify a gerund bc it's a verbal noun it's like #pls hold‚ time 2 decide whether i'd rather do the esoteric thing—'its being'—and have most ppl think i'm getting it wrong #or do the demotic thing—'it being'—and *know* in my own secret heart i'm getting it wrong #and both scenarios feel Bad! so it really is just lose-lose every time it comes up… a sad situation for a gerund lover like yrs truly. 😔)#(also yes what is 'wrong' when it comes 2 language anyway but like. you know what itches your ears and i know what itches mine.#…& obvs what itches mine somehow does NOT include (mis)using 'itch' as a transitive verb for comedically colloquial effect. shrug emoji!!)#anyway none of this is remotely groundbreaking or even unusual but. soothing 2 me to lay it out like this.#fannish things #i guess also #aut fieri uolo aut futuere #and no‚ the world definitely did not need >500 words retreading the same ground many other ppl have already trodden #however. what is a blog for if not to house long-winded unnecessary posts no one but the author (if that) really needed.#in conclusion anything i say abt My Relationship 2 Fic is really always a diptych with that anecdote abt the woman who called up queer bars #just to know there was a space out there where freedom and joy existed‚ and brush the edge of it‚ just a little #like am i personally embodying/visible as much of what i'm deeply emotionally bound up with? no.#is it nonetheless/therefore hugely important to me to see those possibilities stretched out before me like a far green field? sure is!!

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