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#this is coming from a neurodivergent person
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Besties I also don't particularly like Shuro (it's for the Izutsumi thing, not because of the Laios thing that happened this episode!!!) But I also get this thing that I also think Shuro is neurodivergent HOWEVER he comes from a place of privilege because of his family AND from a place where it's drilled into his head that being direct about discomfort is rather rude, it's not so simple as to just go "he HATES autistic people and he deserves to die because he was mean to Laios", Laios although heartbroken that the person he thought was his friend secretly did not like him IS NOT A CHILD, he's a WHITE grown man who (accidentally and without malice) did various microaggressions towards Shuro, and while I think this could have gone a lot smoother if Shuro was more direct or Laios was just a tad bit less socially inept, none of them are children or without fault. Hating Shuro because of this one specific thing is kind of weird (and there's a lot of fandom racism too towards him and Kabru)
The situation that Shuro and Laios find themselves in isn't something as simple as "character A is a poor pure man and character B is mean, evil and an asshole" 😭😭😭😭
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nyandaah · 1 day
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I don't know how to articulate my thoughts on it consicely (as usual, hence why I rarely ever write posts here anymore), but ever since this week's dunmesh ep I can't stop thinking about That scene between toshiro and laios and how it's been talked about as a piece of representation of the neurodivergent struggle.
I've seen those panels countless times before the anime got to it, and I can't understate how Real of a thing it is that we're seeing through laios- that pain and frustration that comes from having the rug pulled under you in being told that been getting it Wrong the whole time and nobody's bothered to point out the donkey tail pinned on your ass.
but I think that's only the first half of the statement, and the way people talk (and don't talk) about toshiro does the moment a disservice.
seeing how people talk about it before getting to the scene itself, it ended up catching me off-guard how much of a Person toshiro is. he's always talked about as the strawman or the figure representing neurotypical society- the one that others us.
I see where it's all coming from, he's not a likeable character to most of the fandom for reasons I won't hold anyone against, but again- he's an important part of the picture that dunmesh paints of the nd struggle.
I find it absurd to portray toshiro as a representation of the 'average'. being both of royalty and of a culture that has instilled upon him his own values and expectations when it comes to socialization. it's why the inclusion of his retainers (especially maizuru) was a brilliant story decision; alongside laios', we get to see HIS social ineptitudes and how central they are to HIS character.
like. a major point of grievance many of the audience has with toshiro is his rose-tinted 'romance' with obviously-uninterested falin. I get it, especially if you've experienced that type of engagement with an unwanted pursuer. but dear lord if that doesn't perfectly parallel him with laios as a fellow Socially Inept Man.
it hit me as much as laios hit me when he said he envied our boy's sincerity. because that's a true and often less talked about part of the neurodivergent struggle(tm)- the difficulty to express your feelings. just like the other end of the spectrum, it hurts yourself as much as it hurts others.
as someone whose brain problems often manifest as social anxiety and feeling like i'm either unable to or unworthy of expressing how I feel, I envy laios too.
tl;dr- there are two characters present in that scene in episode 17.
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rubberduckyrye · 9 hours
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Okay in all seriousness. There's something that I REALLY want to talk about as an open discussion with the fandom, but. This is not going to be a very nice thing to hear/talk about.
It's about how Gonta is treated by the fandom.
As a fan of all the V3 characters now, and as someone who has always been a fan of Gonta, and as someone who has many mental disabilities and two diagnosed neurodivergancies... I'm tired of playing nice about it.
You all need to stop being ableist towards Gonta.
I've mentioned in the past that I don't like shitting on personal interpretations. I don't like saying something is or is not canon because narration is just a big web of text that you try to decipher with your own personal biases, experiences, and thoughts. That's why two literary analysts analyzing the same text with the same literary criticism rules can come to wildly different conclusions--why people develop different headcanons from the same canonical information.
But one of the things that challenged my integrity is just how many people view Gonta as this innocent, naive, ignorant, baby boy who can do no harm/never has a complicated/dirty/violent/sexual thought in his life ever.
This incredibly ableist interpretation of the character bothered me for, well, obvious reasons (See: It's fucking ableist, need I say more?) but I never challenged it as harshly as I am now because to be frank, it's not my place to tell people how to HC a character. It still isn't. But I've pretty much given up on my integrity on the subject and have decided to go all in on discussing why this interpretation of Gonta is just. Really bad.
First of all, not to promote my own analyses here or anything, but I think this analysis I did of Gonta explains a LOT in regards to the ableism the cast gives him in canon. I also think that this subtle ableism is why the fandom is so bad with Gonta's characterization in headcanons and fanfic--because they've seen how the cast treats him, and they think it's normal. They don't see the microaggressions, they don't see the subtle ableism in the cast--they just see this big giant idiot who speaks like Tarzan in the English version (which... I don't actually know why people assume Tarzan (Thinking of Disney's version) is stupid. Like as a boy he had to reinvent the spear with no one to guide him on how to do it. He was able to strategize and outsmart "civilized" men in the final showdown. Still I digress) and don't see the literal genius behind his social awkwardness.
There is also another very important point I'm going to make in addition to this, and it's going to be very uncomfortable to Gonta fans who insist he's nothing but a sweet baby who only has pure thoughts. Especially to the fans who insist he "can't be sexual" or think it's weird to ship him with his peers.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but... Gonta blatantly has sexual desire and gets horny right in canon.
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This is further clarified here:
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It wasn't a matter of Gonta didn't want to touch her because touching someone in their underwear was inappropriate, or being flustered because she was in her underwear which is inappropriate...
It was literally a "weird feeling" that made him unable to approach her or touch her. A "weird feeling" that Miu makes pretty obvious as to what it was--sexual arousal.
He literally was sexually attracted to and felt sexual arousal from looking at Miu in her underwear. He had sexual feelings and thoughts about Miu. Why?
Because Gonta is a young man.
Gonta is a brilliant, talented young man who has normal human thoughts for someone his age--sexual desires, upsetting thoughts, complicated thoughts, ectect. He is not a child, he is not mentally stunted (I've been informed that people have literally said this on Ao3 for the NSFW Gonta fics, please for the love of god stop that)
I think the reason why Gonta fans typically want to keep him as a "pure baby child who can do no wrong" is because treating him like the young adult that he is makes it harder for them to justify Chapter 4. Every time I've seen a Gonta fan that hates Kokichi, it's always followed by the sentiment of "Kokichi manipulated and abused Gonta into killing Miu, so it's all Kokichi's fault." They're afraid of nuance and liking a character with the grey morality of genuinely thinking Mercy Killing the cast is a viable option, because it challenges their own morals about the character they adore.
To those people who read this and are upset: You can and should like Gonta! Gonta is a magnificent character who showcases the subtle way microaggressions can manifest and hurt people, he's a good-hearted person and a literal genius, he cares deeply for his friends and loves everyone with upmost sincerity.
But.
You need to re-evaluate your stance on Gonta if you think he's a stupid, naive fool who Kokichi manipulated. You need to re-evaluate why you think those thoughts, why you think Gonta being shipped with anyone is "Kinda weird" or "has weird consent problems" or "give you the ick." You have to challenge yourself and ask yourself uncomfortable questions in regards to why you treat Gonta like a child when canon has proven otherwise, why you think he cannot have violent or sexual thoughts, why he can't think mercy killing his class is the only way to save them.
This isn't an attack on you--but understand that these specific takes on Gonta? They are ableist in nature. They belittle and dismiss him, they treat him like a child, an idiot who can't think for himself--and you have to come to terms with the fact that Gonta is a far more complex character with complicated thoughts and feelings who is a young adult. Not a child. A young adult.
So again, ask yourself this: Why are you treating this young adult like he's a toddler?
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As a POC, I gotta at least look out for Toshiro (even if he do kinda suck). Honestly the situation between him and laios is painful for the both of them. Shiro comes from a place and upbringing where being direct and upfront is like not advise or comes across as rude. Which is where aspects of envy towards laios being a direct and upfront person be coming from. Yet still stings for laios when it's someone who he thought he could connect and be friends with who has a different experience of life. Either way, it's a rough mashup for the both of them and falin as well.
As a neurodivergent woc, Laios has f-in point when it comes to the seriousness of taking on the dungeon after being well rested and fed. Toshiro really did put aside his big oofs to get help and head out to the dungeon to save falin, yet he sacrificed his well being for the sake of the situation and getting back to falin, which worked up until a point. It's still important to take care of your body during those kind of situations, cause you can't feed others without having the means to feed yourself.
Whoops, anyway, the mash up between Toshiro and laios was a rough cut for the both of them. I'm glad the fight at least sobered up shiro and gave laios an opportunity to correct and set a proper goal. The hurt still cuts like a b-th though. So like any of y'all folks really hating on shuro, needs to fucking chill and check y'all selves for rascim reasons before expressing your distaste for his actions. Be more like Kabru. And Falin already has marcille so things will turn out (if Falin ever comes back that is) *wink*.
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'Percy Jackson is just a normal guy in a strange world':Incorrect
'Percy Jackson is a role model for young boys and a female fantasy':Closer but not quite correct
'Percy Jackson is not a gendered character in a meta sense because Percy being a boy has nothing to do with their personality and stories EXCEPT proving themselves as different from other 'male' characters and this is a big reason why they're so easy to read as transfem among the countless ones and so appealing to black women,autistic women and obviously irl trans women and widely beloved by lesbians and aroaces and by making Percy normal,you are fundamentally ruining their character because they were meant to be completely nonconformist just naturally and their rebellious attitude is a result of growing up as a minority in-text by being neurodivergent and poor and fighting against for themself and others like them and this is another fascet of their appeal and why the first take is the most popular one because it comes from hatred of and discomfort towards irl Percys(read:autistic people and feminine trans people)fueled by bigotry so that's the discourse around book!Percy being afrolatino interpretation,the mass harrasment towards Perachel shippers and Rachel fans and both towards Leah for playing Annabeth by white/allistic Pjo fans and the ass kissing towards Luke as the palpable victim of society unlike Percy:CORRECT!!!!!
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wrmbell · 17 hours
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So crazy to me that I went into dunmeshi expecting to not really care about Laios and now he's literally all I think about.
I just genuinely didn't expect him to be personally so relatable. I have a habit where I say my fav characters from pieces of media are "literally me" and they're not, I just like them a lot. But legit I relate to him like TOO HARD. Like it gets to me when he misses social cues and ppl get weirded out because I KNOW THAT EXACT FEELINGGGGUH. And obviously his ginormous monster special interest. This is a very surface level rant I have to go to work so I'm keepin' it breif, but mainly what I'm getting at is thag it makes me gleeful when I'm given characters to resonate with that aren't insanely one-dimensional. Laios' autism I feel like IS the butt of the joke sometimes, but he's still much more than what he's obviously coded to be. (also I should say I just think this is just ten times better than how a LOT of tv shows and movies portray being neurodivergent.) And I just appreciate that :)
Perchance I shouldn't say too much and analyze to much
I SHOULD FINISH THE GOT DANG MANGA FIRST
Adding on that I'm the type of bitch that has a lot to say in his brain but when it comes to typing, I can't articulate what the fuck I'm talking ab. So that's why you're all getting surface- level word vomit <3
tl;dr Laios is autistic and I relate
If this post reaches anyone autistic, how do you feel ab Laios?
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jeza-red · 17 hours
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That scene between Shuro and Laios hits hard.
Because I can understand perfectly where Laios is coming from...
And yet still, I, an autistic person myself, would punch him in the face just like Shuro did and told him to fuck off.
Which goes to show you that autistic people are not a monolith, and hanging onto a dichotomy of "Laios good-Shuro bad" stands on a false premise that one of them has to be a mean neurotypical and the other a pure neurodivergent baby.
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leota-nexus · 2 days
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[SakuraBot Mode: ACTIVATED]
Crawling outta the rubble to post I think my first selfie on here? I actually exist! Or something!
I was trying on the bodysuit for a WIP cosplay, grabbed the skirt for a laugh, & completely stopped in my tracks because damn now that's a LOOK!! 💮🤖💖
...Alright I've been trying to edit this post down for a couple days because I don't want this to come off like an advertisement but I gotta be a heartfelt sap for a moment. It's my nature, can't help it. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️ Skirt review & personal ramblings under the cut:
Shoutout to @shopwitchvamp seriously. This skirt immediately replaced the cargo pants I've been living in the last few years. The fabric is so lovely & comfortable, the deep pockets are amazing, AND I can temperature-regulate in this crazy unpredictable weather!!! Hell yeah!
My partner got this skirt for me as a birthday gift because it reminds me of the digital sakuras in Night City that I keep using for virtual photoshoots but also in this Hot Topic Hello Kitty kinda way that just speaks to my millenial soul (🖤🎀🖤) I mean, obviously I'm in love with the design but the weight & texture & movement really made it an insta-fave in a very meaningful way for me.
And then I realized this is the first new piece of clothing I've owned since pre-pandemic. My body's changed so much that basically nothing fits. I had one pair of pants left that was at its limit and for years I've wore it like a uniform everytime I went outside with a baggy shirt to cover up. I got this skirt and suddenly I was styling outfits again, like wtf?!
So my partner & I realized how desperately our depressed neurodivergent asses needed:
new clothes that actually fit
with comfortable textures & fun patterns
that are actually functional & made to last
preferably from small businesses we respect
...And now we text each other about WV restocks lmao
The only problem is that because we couldn't afford anything from the Feb preorders, we figured we'd save up & see what came back in stock next month. Except it came in a month early. So LUCKILY we've already been saving up for this because now I'm waiting for my second skirt & partner's first joggers to be delivered today! And then they restocked more yesterday! And then they announced more restocks next week! Oof ouch our wallets but at least today's payday and now we actually have fun comfy clothes that fit to celebrate our 10 year anniversary together in a few months! 💕
Thank you, WitchVamp! We love you! Now if you'll excuse me I need to go sit by the front door like
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"C'mon package... Maybe if I just... ~Booweeoop!~ No? Alright, check the tracking number..."
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the one time my show's (not mine but yk very small fandom) tag is actually used and it's for ridicule and discourse. now that stuff will be the only stuff you can see :/
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iso-gale · 2 years
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if i see one more post that’s basically “neurotypicals are mean and evil and hate neurodivergent people and are out to get us!!!” i’m going to SCREAM
i promise u that 99% of the time a neurotypical person communicating in a neurotypical way isn’t to purposely exclude u and laugh at u for not understanding, they’re communicating in the way that is comfortable and natural to them. being a neurotypical person is not an attack on neurodivergent ppl
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ineffectualbookseller · 8 months
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The way Azirphale is underestimated and practically infantalized by heaven is so closely tied to his femininity and I think we should talk about it more because I just want to shout about how relatable the way he's treated in his workplace is as a woman working in a traditionally male field
It's in all the little niggling comments from your boss about personal things that hold no bearing on your work
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and the assumption that what you're doing must be simple if it was assigned to you
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your work is trivialized
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and you get these the placating smiles when you're told plans and proposals are rejected and passed over
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or when your complaints are dismissed
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and you get more of the same from upper management
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it all feels so frustrating and draining but you're at work so all you can do is take a breathe put on that mask and move on with your day
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It is all so deteimental to your emotional well being and textually, so much of this is tied to Aziraphale's softness, his gayness - his femininity
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The thing about working in an environment and gives you this feeling - of being simultaneously destrought watching your belief in yourself get chipped away but also just so irate becuase you know you don't deserve it - is how it builds. It sinks under your skin and feeds into this indignant dejection until you can have a moment of release - but Azirphale doesn't get to bitch about it over drinks with friends, he doesn't get a lunch break where he can go for a walk and listen to an angry scandi death metal playlist, he doesn't even get the chance to cry about it in the bathroom for 5 minutes before confronting it again
(And I talked a little bit about it in the tags of this beautiful photoset but this all comes into play whenever Crowley dismisses his plans or calls him an idiot. These are purely emotional reactions; I really don't think Crowley means much by it - he respects Aziraphale's opinion and genuinely thinks he's brilliant - but Crowley is so quick to use this terminology when Aziraphale is making a decision Crowley thinks is wrong and he doesn't know how much this hurts Aziraphale. Just like Aziraphale doesn't understand the true impact the Fall had on Crowley, Crowley doesn't understand the ways heaven has been tearing away at Aziraphale's self worth)
Aziraphale has been facing this constant drip of denigration since before the beginning of time and has never released the pressure valve. At this point, he's a bomb waiting to go off
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calamitys-child · 2 months
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My purpose and singular mission in life is to make sure queer and/or neurodivergent kids know that sometimes it really is their parents who are stupid and other adults are on their side. This, unfortunately, does not make me popular with their parents. Gonnae keep doing it though.
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silvermoon424 · 2 months
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Winning over the people (my coworkers during this work retreat) with my dry autistic deadpan and unintentionally funny mannerisms
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positivelyadhd · 5 months
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Reminder that neurodivergent is not just having ADHD and/or autism.
It's anything that impacts the way a person thinks and experiences the world.
When we talk about neurodiversity, we are talking about anyone that identifies with that umbrella. Our experiences as neurodiverse people are unique, not just because there are many different sets of symptoms that fall under the "neurodiverse" umbrella, but because we are all unique and experience the world and societal reactions to our neurodiversity differently.
If you are neurodivergent in any way I hope you know that you are welcome in neurodivergent spaces and that your voice is so important. And that this post is for everyone but especially the people who feel like their experiences go unheard. you are just as valued in these spaces as anyone else and I encourage you to speak up if you would like to!
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bipunkharrington · 7 days
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There's something that infuriates me so much about people mocking characters that fall into the "not like other girls" trap, because the reasons girls take on that stance is because they exist in a society that tries to put womanhood and femininity in a restrictive box that tells them who and how they should be.
They're generally mocked and derided for not wishing to conform to stereotypical femininity, but when they lash out in entirely predictable but ultimately unhelpful ways (by being dismissive and rude about other women and femininity in general) instead of understanding that it's a product of growing up in a society that's restricting them and punishing them for not conforming (either by choice or inability) so many people who claim to be feminists choose to mock them or make them out to be the cause of the problem rather than a symptom. Whether its being mocked in real life, or watching people deride the fictional characters they relate to, this behaviour just alienates those girls even further into thinking that the issue is other women, and confirms their belief that women who are typically feminine will only ever be derisive toward them and that they're somehow fundamentally different from other women.
If you know someone who thinks along those "I'm not like other girls" lines instead of mocking them try directing them towards resources that can help them understand where that harmful rhetoric comes from, and when you're critiquing characters that fit that mold try to consider why they behave that way, and what girls who see themselves in those characters take from your commentary.
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writterings · 5 months
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procastinating at work but here's my philosophy for today: it's okay to hate a behavior in someone else but also understand that this behavior does not make them a bad person. like i HATE when i'm venting or talking about a serious problem i have and then the person i'm talking to starts trying to relate by talking about a similar experience they've had. like absolutely hate it. make me feel like the focus is being taken off me and it genuinely is in some ways, regardless of your intent. yeah, i understand that's your way of trying to comfort me -- but that's not the way i need or want to be comforted, and that's what matters in a situation where i'm coming to you to be helped.
and that's okay! like. no one is in the wrong here unless i have explicitly asked you to support me in a different way and you're intentionally refusing, or if i lash out at you when i could just disengage. it just means you're not a person i should go to for help when talking about my problems. we can still be friends, you and i can probably support each other in different ways, but we're just incompatible in this regard. and that's like....okay. it's okay to be incompatible with people.
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