#transandrophobia truthers

[a-polite-melody]

Waitwaitwait

Is “transandrobabies” really another term people are trying out to deride trans men and mascs speaking on our oppression?

Really?

When one of the things we constantly talk about is that we are infantilized to hell and back?

Actually?

I am… y’know. I wish I could say I was surprised. But at this point I’m not. This is not what genuine criticism of transmasc theory looks like, it’s not ever done a good job being dressed up to pretend that way, and the people coming up with these terms of derision absolutely know what they’re doing.

#my post #transandrophobia #transmisandry #we just keep collecting more #transandrophobia truthers #Aidens and theyfabs #cuntboys #zippertits #tmras #transandrobros #tbros #transandrodorks #birthday boys #transandrobabies #how many more?

[0w0tsuki]

It really is disheartening to see how desperate transmisandry bros are committed to find SOME WAY, ANY WAY to call transfems who disagree with them TERFs. Like when it first started off it was lazy, dismissive, and just showed that they really had no idea what they were talking about. But then they doubled down and kept attempting to rebrand to try and spin it as progressive. Like it's this Holy Grail of trans andro theory that if they unlock it then they will be able to win all arguments forever and be able to shove any Transfem they don't like out of being able to describe her own oppression.

Like first it was drudging up the term beaddel from nearly a decade. A long dead group of "the one time a group of transfems were genuinely being awful" and mystifying them to warn about secretive "trans lesbian separatists" (literally a term based on "lesbian separatist". A term coined in the SCUM TERF manifesto) trying to sell you "radfem koolaid"

Then they thought "well it might work if we changed the E to an I" and started saying that any transfems using TME/TMA terminology were sex essentialists (even though it's not. Cis men and women are also TME) and "TIRF's" when literally no self respecting trans woman calls themselves that. The few people that do identify with the term TIRF are TME'S who think the trans people who are made with them "don't know how to read" instead of you know, recognizing their ideology is still rooted in bio essentialism.

Then they tried various tactics of redefining TERF. From "all trans people are equally targeted by TERFs and it does harm to say their primary target is trans women" (They see trans men as lost little girls and they want them to detransition and be "saved". They see trans women as violent predators, a threat to women by virtue of existing, and want us DEAD. These are not the same) to "actually their bigotry stems from a hatred of men!" (Actually most TERFs are trad wives. They constantly ally themselves with anti feminist movements. And one of their most prolific members posie parker infamously asked "fathers with gun" to walk into women's restrooms to kill trans women)

Then it was trying to delineate radfeminism from TERFism. Even though just referring to themselves as "radfem", just the same as "gender critical" was a part of a rebranding effort by TERFs themselves when the term TERF got widely recognized as a member of a bigoted hate group. Any "cis radfems who aren't TERFs" that they talk about are just TERFs who think the term is a slur. But that doesn't matter to transmisandry bros because it allows them to hold those terms as two separate things and more importantly as "something separate from TERF but functionally the same to label trans women as"

And now apparently it's "radical transfeminism"? Which come on. You aren't even trying at this point. It's honestly sickening how devoted the group that sells itself as being for "TransUnity" and "stopping the infighting" is so determined to find a term that will allow them to shut out and exclude any Transfem they don't like.

#transmisoginy #terf painting #Transandrophobia truthers

[virtue-boy]

Went on a transandrophobia truther blog and instantly saw this ..

1) love the slight of hand where he says "being trans" instead of actually identifying any positionality or god forbid mentioning WOMANHOOD as a type of positionality in his post which allows him to call trans women men and completely disregard the experience of the closested trans WOMAN. Telling that your argument hinges on "after transitioning to a man I am exactly the same as a woman undercover as a man"

2) just say you're not on T and you don't know anyone who is. Like as someone who's passed as male on an off for my whole life and now fully passes as male all the time thanks to T I low key snorted reading this... Liiike let's be for real here passing as a man (and doubly so if u are binary and have the pronouns to match) and passing gives you privilege out the fucking wazoo and I literally think about it every time I leave the house, meet new people, take blue collar jobs, interact w people on public transit, walk around at night, go to gay clubs, bond w male overseers, look for roommates, etc. This is obviously extremely racialized as much as it is gendered, but there is literally not a single "privilege" I had as a girl (that was assumed to be a guy 50-70% of the time) that I lost as a guy.

3) Also how do trans men "inherently defy patriarchal manhood" I literally know a trans guy who went to jail for domestic violence against a woman like trans men are incredibly capable of accessing and enacting patriarchy and thinking ourselves justified in accessing patriarchal homosociality. Like we are literally becoming men and we don't just magically exit the patriarchal society because we aren't the men at the top of the make food chain.... a la R.W. Connel. Being trans men means we lose some for being trans but we win some because we are men. Like gay men are frequently denied their masculinity but it would be dodo brained to act like gay men have no male homosociality they can access or that no gay man has ever accessed male homosociality. Like if u believe that you actually don't know any gay history Attttt Alllllll 😭 like genuinely. We also earn more money per dollar than women in our same gender modality, that doesn't sound like "inherently defying patriarchal manhood" to me that sounds actually like a pretty typical social positionality for oppressed and marginalized men. Like in my own friend groups, at school, and in my music and promotions scene being an (openly trans) man actually has granted me actually a lot of homosociality that I can draw on.

#Mine #Transandrophobia truthers #God everytime I scratch one second below the surface on this it's just a rich topology of fucking garbage and barely disguised hatred #Of trans women like these guys genuinely see trans women as mortal fucking enemies who they are entitled to as allies but since t women #Wont just bow down and refuse to become “gender egalitarians” instead of feminists instead of considering their position in the community o #Good faith engaging w trans women in their community to build allyship and unity they just say #well we could have had unity in our #Community but all these WOMEN insist on calling me a MAN when I am the true ontological woman here #so I guess we can't be a community and I have to dedicate my whole online presence to fighting women in my own community 💔

[autolenaphilia]

I finally found a definition of "radical feminism" from a transandrophobia dude. Like I lamented before that they calls trans women "radfems" without defining what they mean by that term, and here i get an answer. It's terrible, but an attempt was made.

I won't link to it, it was left as a very lengthy, rambling and sealiony reply to a mutual's post complaining about this very behaviour, and that dude doesn't deserve any additional attention giving to his ravings. Believe me, whatever I screenshot is worse in context. The context being a transfem saying "don't do this thing" and a guy deciding to do this exact thing for over 30 paragraphs as a reply.

But here is a relevant screenshot.

His definition of radical feminism is literally: "making a distinction between oppressor and oppressed." And It's literally any distinction, not just between that between men and women in the patriarchy. As he proves when he condemns tme/tma distinction as terfy:

Like tme/tma is a binary, but it's one that includes a lot of varying groups in the oppressor class, including cis women, much to the anger of actual terfs. This definition of radical feminism is literally believing in the oppressor-oppressed distinction.

The problem with this definition is that making a clear distinction between the oppressor and the oppressed is a fundamental part of analyzing oppression.

Saying that in a patriarchy men have male privilege, and institutional power over women, who are oppressed by misogyny, is a true statement and a fundamental part of feminist theory. And saying that in a white supremacist society, white people have white privilege and institutional power over non-white people, who are oppressed by racism is also true and is vital to analyzing racism and white supremacy. And queer tumblrites practically all agree that in a cisheteronormative society cishet people have privilege and power over queer people.

These are binary statements to be sure, and simplistic because they are only analyzing one form of oppression, and not studying their intersectionality, but they are also obviously true. It's in recognizing how they are simultaneously true that forms the basis of any intersectional analysis.

It's not radical feminism, when marxist, anti-racist analysis, queer theory and other forms of feminism all rely on these distinctions between the oppressed and their oppressor class. If we are going by this definition of radfem, Karl Marx was a radfem, and so was probably Hegel, and W.E.B. Du Bois.

And again, this is a way of using the label terf/radfem to label all feminist analysis as suspect, including transfeminist analysis by trans women, you know the people actual terfs want to genocide.

It's a tactic right out the right-wing conservative playbook to label any discussion of how people are oppressed as divisive and making the oppressed into angelic victims that do no wrong.

It's basically another variation of what I call Farrell's fallacy, here the existence of other forms of oppressions is used to deny misogyny. "If men are privileged, why do marginalized men exist, checkmate feminists" Misogyny is nuanced out of existence, where the term "intersectionality" (a method that in reality includes a lot of feminist analysis of misogyny) is used as a club to deny misogyny. Feminists are strawmanned to lack intersectional analysis, when they are in fact at the forefront of it.

And you can do this to deny any form of oppression. You can point out that the oppressor class for practically every oppression has members that are marginalized for other reasons, and thus deny they have any privilege at all.

Of course antifeminist tumblr queers do love doing this to misogyny to deny their own complicity in it, while oppressions that they feel is important (because it affects them) is exempt from this treatment. Like you could nuance the existence of straight and cis privilege out of existence by pointing out that "cishet" covers a lot of marginalized people, like women, non-white and disabled cishets all exist.

Actual terfs do in fact use misogyny in that way, they have their own version of farrell's fallacy where they say "how dare you say we have cis privilege, women suffer from misogyny."

And of course, it's wrong for all the reasons i outlined in my post about the fallacy linked above. People can simultaneously be oppressed and privileged for different reasons. You can see cis privilege when you compare the outcomes and social status of cis and trans women for example. And people who are queer in addition to being non-white and disabled have worse outcomes than cishet disabled and non-white people. Just as you can see male privilege when comparing men and women who are oppresssed for the same reasons.

The reality is intersectional analysis answers this seeming contradiction without denying that the existence of any oppression and privileges given to the oppressor class. It's the difference of using the existence of other oppression to deepens one understanding of society, and to deny that one particular oppression exist at all.

#my writings #feminism #intersectionality #misandry is not real #transandrophobia truthers

[rasairui]

It is so fucking exhausting seeing how misogyny is just completely accepted in supposedly progressive LGBT+ spaces again and again like I don't know how all of you are so STUPIDD like we literally cannot have the very basic conversation of "hey why do you treat women as objects with no depth both in fiction and real life" without a bunch of you morons going "Uhm this is MISANDRY" or "haha I'm gay so I don't HAVE to care about women" as if the average straight cis man DOES care?? You are not subverting expectations or being revolutionary by treating women like secondary accessories you are in fact fulfilling standard conservative expectations. Literally the most basic of feminist sentiments gets an insane amount of misogynistic pushback by people who call themselves progressive, and yeah we make fun of it but it's genuinely gut-churning to see GBT+ men, who not only should know better but often actively claim to do so, treat trans women and wlw like utter shit over and over and over and any time someone gets upset it's usually some variation of "actually let me do whatever I want or YOU'RE the bigot" you people are barely two steps away from talking like a reddit MRA and I'm convinced you'd start the "not all men" shit again if it didn't already have a reputation. My fucking god. Putting a flimsy faux-progressive veneer over your conservative rhetoric doesn't stop it from being conservative rhetoric. Either put in the effort to stop being a stupid cunt or stop pretending you had any real values to begin with.

Anyway. Feminist website my ass you guys can barely even handle hearing that women are interesting lmao

#yes the catmask post partially inspired this I have to say that or people will ask lol #but the issue is deeper and more damaging than just that one post it is an example in a massive ocean of them. A good starting point or w/e #misogyny #transmisogyny #lesbophobia #but no WE'RE dividing the community. It makes me insane #and yes transandrophobia freaks are a massive part of this #transandrophobia truthers #trans man: um I was raised as a girl I know about misogyny OBVIOUSLY *says the most misogynistic shit you've ever heard*

[nervoustragedyluminary]

Taunting someone speaking about their experiences with Transphobia {usually transandromisia} with 'you're probably gonna detransition lol' is disgusting btw

-detrans people [cis or trans] aren't and should not be used as objects of pity\disgust ,and you need to stop using their lives and bodies as a threat against trans people even trans people you disagree with. Yes that includes White Garrah or someone you've decided to label a 'truther' for talking about their own oppression

Our detrans siblings [some of whom still are trans btw] deserve better than seeing people use their bodies and experiences as a threat or boogeyman or 'the worst case scenario/ruined by their own hubris' some of you sound Just like terfs the way you talk about them and it's gross

Making detransition into some kind of moral failing that must be avoided at all costs and that automatically invalidates one's prior experiences and puts them in league with terfs is fucked up. Detrans People aren't a hivemind they don't all side with terfs most of them are against Transphobia and a lot of them still face Transphobia

It hurts detrans people to use them like this it isolates them from community healthcare and plays into terf grooming rhetoric that says that the trans community hates them and can't have solidarity with them because [insert conspiracy here]

If you have to be selfish to understand why it's wrong to treat and talk about detransitioners like this :

it hurts trans people too who become so scared of the future possibility of detransition that they don't even transition in the first place even when it would likely help them because of the fear 'if im wrong or decide that transition isn't for me in future I'll be ruined and everyone will see me as a traitor and use my existence to hurt trans people'

#trans detrans solidarity #transandrophobia #anti transmasculinity #Transmisogyny #Transphobia #transandrophobia truthers

[madame-peach]

do you have any proof of doberbutts or any of the other transandrophobia people being transmisogynistic? it seems mostly unfounded and saint gets a lot of harassment still for just wanting a word to discuss trans' mens oppression. the "lesbian corrective rape" blog was a consensual blog he made with his trans girlfriend who had a misgendering/detransition kink. and when he used the term a/b/o he was talking about omegaverse, not using the aboriginal slur. context matters. and folks have called doberbutts an incel and claim he says all this shit about black women, but I've only seen a handful of blogs say that and never with proof. it seems like yall just hate trans men/men in general and are looking for excuses to punch down on marginalized men.

do you have any proof of doberbutts or any of the other transandrophobia people being transmisogynistic?

Sigh... I'm not doing your research for you, especially when I've literally mentioned this user once on my blog. Also, this is tumblr –– transmisogyny is rampant on this platform. Do your research.

it seems mostly unfounded and saint gets a lot of harassment still for just wanting a word to discuss trans' mens oppression.

Boo hoo? I'm not sure what this has to do with me, as I have not personally, nor do I ever plan to engage with this user.

the "lesbian corrective rape" blog was a consensual blog he made with his trans girlfriend who had a misgendering/detransition kink. and when he used the term a/b/o he was talking about omegaverse, not using the aboriginal slur. context matters.

Let me get this straight... You typed this, found it defensible, and you pressed send. No comment.

and folks have called doberbutts an incel and claim he says all this shit about black women, but I've only seen a handful of blogs say that and never with proof.

Again, what does this have to do with me? I literally don't care about this user.

it seems like yall just hate trans men/men in general and are looking for excuses to punch down on marginalized men.

You seem quite convinced of this, which I can understand, but not to the point that you would stand behind your words and own them, which I don't understand. Instead, you cloak yourself in anonymity. Are you looking for some sort of diagnosis? I assume, some sort of unfortunate inner turmoil or plague that you are suffering from? A lack of true conviction, identity, or sense of self? Whatever you are evidently struggling with, I'm still puzzled as to why this ask was directed towards me.

Here's an idea:

Refrain from locating the nearest Black transfeminine person to disturbingly project onto.

#ask #anon #transandrophobia #transandrophobia truthers #whew chile #misogynoir #my thoughts

[goldyke]

Anyway op responded to me and then blocked but no it’s not just my experience.

I have also suffered significant strife due to my trans identity. Trans women still have it worse than I do, and that’s true for all other transmascs*

(*this statement assumes all other axes of oppression being the same. Intersections of other identities can create other dynamics obviously)

#transandrophobia truthers

[pretty-little-martyr]

terfs: we should try and infiltrate trans men's spaces, and in this post where I detail how, I keep misgendering them and referring to them like lost stupid women

people on this website, somehow: This Is Trans Men's Fault For Speaking About The Transphobia They Face

#DO YOU HEAR YOURSELVES. #if youve ever called a trans man speaking abt their oppression a 'transandrobro' or 'transandrophobia truther' #then just know that 1) i hate you and 2) i want you as far away from me as possible

[aroacechillzone]

Man, I hate when trans people jump on the bandwagon to hate other trans people. Like, there’s this post that’s been going around criticizing the fetishization of trans women (which is 100% something we should talk about) but like, it aims the whole thing directly at transmascs. like hello??? yeah there definitely are some transmascs who fetishize trans women, but other people do too and I guarantee you transmascs are not the majority. Stop trying to make other trans people the scapegoat and put the blame where it belongs (on our inherently transphobic society).

#trans #transgender #anyways if u can’t tell I am a filthy ‘transandrophobia truther’ #if u have a problem w that unfollow me #infighting is worthless #stop assuming other trans ppl are ur enemies

[0w0tsuki]

You wanna know what fucking sucks about the trans andro crowd? You know besides the fact that all it takes is a transfem breathing the wrong direction at them for them to call her a Terf. The fact that they have the SHEER GAUL to claim it is in the name of TransUnity.

You wanna know what trans unity was? It was a term created for us to rally around when this tide of genocidal legislation started rising. To gather around and show SUPPORT for one another. To mobilize and RESIST this wave of hatred.

And tbros saw this as a very convenient shield, an uno reverse card, something to accuse other people of being against when they themselves aren't performing it. If you call them out on their infighting and punching across they will use the very fact that your criticizing them of this to argue that actually? NO! YOUR infighting!

None of these tbros are going in counter protest to ACTUAL Terf rallies. They aren't spreading donation posts. They aren't talking about news about daily anti-trans laws being put forth and trying to resist them. No. They spend their whole time trying to Gotcha! Trans women.

You know what people interested in ACTUAL TransUnity don't do? We don't have our top blog actively promote a blog dedicated to block evading (while simultaneously blocking out all criticism) to grab full username screenshots of trans folks they want to witch hunt and put them next to hate anons from feds calling them shit like zipper tits in order to whip up their audience to either sent hate or to EXCLUDE THEM. Like actually patting themselves on the back that they got swaths of the community to denounce and exclude us. All while trying to claim it's not transmisoginistic because they're MAINLY targeting other transmen. You know. Those trans men who said "actually that's kinda fucked up. I'ma actually stand in solidarity with my sisters" who were immediately branded as traitors by them. DEFINITELY not an attempt to separate us from the few allies we have while simultaneously telling those in your community "THIS is what happens if you stand against us!"

They don't "joke" about their group chat of Transandrophobia truthers that have been called transmisoginsts so many times that they see calling themselves that as an inside joke signalling each other to swarms posts about transmisoginy.

They don't purposely form insular communities where the only transfems allowed are those who sign at the gate they agree to every single say and they have social clout within that circle for organizing it. They don't try to USE said clout to try and redefine the TERF for these people in a way that would give them the position to call transfems TERFs (which they themselves admit to being a former member of).

And they don't try to discredit and not read arguments from the other side by screenshoting their bios to see if there's anything that they can point out that in their opinion shouldn't be listened to in the first place from "oh she's a white uwu cat girl" to "oh she's a bi lesbian". For all of the hand wringing that the trans andro crowd goes on about how "everyone listens to trans women over trans men and we just get ignored" they CERTAINLY don't have ANY interest in actually listening to trans women. There are no attempts at appeals to our arguments. No "I can see why trans women feel this way and I want to acknowledge their oppression while still advocating for mine" just "oh so you just hate trans men". No attempts at actual UNDERSTANDING trans women who feel hurt by their actions.

Your telling me the crowd who so ADAMANTLY opposed the terms transmisoginy and tme/tma in the first place. Who viewed every post of transfems complaining about the intracommunity oppression they felt as a personal attack on them. Your telling me these people should be given the benefit of the doubt when they try to argue for their own term which is DEFINITELY not reactionary to transmisoginy.

Your going to tell me the crowd that has convinced themselves that they are in a subculture war against transfems have their hearts in the right place and are trying to bring the community together when they are actively working to exclude transfems and their allies from the queer community?

Yall should find FUCKING APPALLING these people who've only ever acted like exclusionary bullies about their politics take a term that was supposed to be a rallying cry for trans people and turn it into the "so much for the tolerant left" but for the queer community, to demand all of the patience and consideration in the world while giving none. I don't even have to argue against their theory. Their actions speak louder than words.

#transmisoginy #Transandrophobia truthers #transunity #transunion #trans unity #exclusionist

[frogfacey]

whaaaat our men's rights movement that hinges on the belief of gendered socialisation and sex based oppression has a terf problem??? who could have seen this coming???

#''hey theres terfs in the transandrophobia tag'' UHM THEYRE NOT REAL TRANSANDROPHOBIA TRUTHERS THEYRE MAKING US LOOK BAD!!! #this keeps happening I fink it might be time to give up the misandry posting #transmisogyny

[autolenaphilia]

I noticed some radfem-adjacent thinking in transandrophobia thinking before, but this post pointing out that there is a split among transandrophobia guys between those who are more radfem-adjacent in their thinknig and identify politically with cis women, and those who identify with cis men and are MRA-adjacent clarified a lot for me. Honestly that three-paragraph explains them a lot better than my long post does.

"transandrophobia" is so hard to argue against because it is so devoid of meaning, it can mean the radfem "transmasc's experience of sex-based oppression" or the MRA "transmasc's experience of misandry". Like even from one person transandrophobia often has a slippery shifting definition. It means almost nothing.

Like I'm surprised that there hasn't been a split from the radfem-adjacent transandrophobia people and the MRA-adjacent ones. But these people have muddled thinking in general. MRA transandrophobia dudes do put on a show of being feminist, because the cis MRAs have such a toxic reputation. So they'll try to include misandry analysis into feminism by saying self-contradictory things like "the patriarchy oppresses men" And well, the radfem-adjacent transandrophobia truthers have such a shaky grasp of feminism that they buy it. They just read all the "our masculinity is oppressed" stuff as referring to how society oppresses butch women or something. And they politically identify with cis women, so they see their experiences as transmascs on a continuum with butch women.

It's basically a scene held together by a shared transmisogyny and a sense of how trans women oppresses them, nothing more. There is no more meaning to be found here.

#transmisogyny #transandrophobia truthers #my writings

[trans-androgyne]

I feel like I’m constantly being held responsible for the actions of random shitty transmascs just by having the commonalities of being transmasculine & talking abt the oppression I face as a result. Like I’m sorry you’ve run into a handful of shitty people. I’ve also run into shitty people but that doesn’t mean I stereotyped the entire group they came from about it.

#why are you assuming I agree with them or should be lumped in with them just bc I’m transmasc #‘transandrophobia truthers’ aren’t even a group #that’s literally just transmasculine people who talk abt their oppression using a specific word #I didn’t even start using it or talking abt it until a few months ago & I’m being responsible for things people did & said years ago? #literally my only goal from all this if it even can be called that is to get to talk abt the experiences I have as a transmasc #why is that so fucking hard for people. I don’t know these random transmascs & I don’t care to #transandrophobia #intracommunity issues tag #mine

[ftmtftm]

Just a fun little reminder that "truther" has roots in antisemitic conspiracy theory so goyim should completely remove it from their vocabulary.

This stands completely regardless of your feelings on transandrophobia as a concept. Perpetuating antisemitic language is always, as the kids say, bad.

EDIT: turning off rb's because this could've been worded better and was an impulsive post!

#if you know this and still continue to say 'transandrophobia truther' i can and will assume you are an antisemite #transandrophobia #transmisandry #transphobia #original post

[myceliumbutch]

There's a lot of misconceptions going around so, as a quick faq,

Transandrophobia does NOT:

Inherently involve transfems. I don't know why everyone who talks shit about this thinks that trans mascs talking about their shit is going to be transfems fault or business. Some people are shitheads but that's not an exclusive trait.

Mean there's a systemic oppressive force. Like there's transphobia but y'all seem to think we're saying "I'm oppressed for being a man" and not "I need a word for the unique ways I'm dealing with this oppression"

Happen exclusively to men. This one does y'all's entire ass. These issues effect trans men, but also transmascs, butches, and masculine transfems sometimes.

#babble babble #I'm sure there's more #but y'all are annoying tonight #sometimes it's not about you #transphobia #transandrophobia #transandrophobia truther