#victim turn abuser

[seagreenstardust]

“When toxic behavior is portrayed as romantic, it’s problematic. When problematic behavior is portrayed as a character flaw for a character to work through, it’s good storytelling.”

Katsuki Bakugou, my friends.

His behavior was problematic but never once portrayed as romantic at the same time. Katsuki said and did awful abusive things, and he also chose to be better when he was given the chance. If you’re still hung up on chapter 1 Katsuki now then I don’t think you’ve been reading the same story I have.

I can’t speak for everyone, but I’m not shipping Izuku with an irredeemable abuser. I’m shipping him with his most important person. His narrative foil. His childhood friend who made awful mistakes and then made it right when he saw he was wrong. The person Izuku looks up to and strives to emulate, despite their past struggles.

Bakudeku is so good because of how flawed these boys are, and how hard they’ve worked to get over it, and how much they matter to each other after it all

#perfect stories about perfect people who never do anything wrong are usually boring #stories about growth and mistakes and redemption and forgiveness and progress are lit #bkdk #bakudeku #the quote is from cinema therapy on YouTube btw #love them so much #they look at media and talk about what is and isn’t good from a real life human perspective #and boy did this quote slap me in the face #anyway this is my thought literally any time anyone says something about shipping Izuku with his abuser #if he was still being abused then I get it #but he’s not #and saying he needs protection from Katsuki is honestly doing his character dirty #and this is not to say that every situation with an abuser and a victim should turn out romantic #obviously not #the world is not black and white and neither are people #sometimes you have to get yourself out and never look back and that is valid and healthy #but sometimes you’re talking about two boys in a manga who literally cannot stop thinking about how good and incredible the other is #bro I get it #surface level chapter/episode 1 Katsuki is literally the worst #but his glow up has been literally meteoric

[tiredyke]

i cant stand feminist discourse on this site because its like 90% "feminism means equality which means you can't say anything bad about men and you have to criticize women just as much as men because misandry is just as bad as misogyny" and these posts always get thousands of notes from other people who call themselves feminists likeee

#the problem isn’t that women are immune to criticism it’s that they get overly criticized and judged to a much harsher degree than men #and to hear people say that we need to criticize women more or ‘stop pretending they’re all innocent angels’ is fucking infuriating #considering women actually get burned at the stake for expressing negativity toward men while men get to make misogynistic remarks and jokes #and get crowned for being so brave and having such a strong moral compass that they aren’t afraid to stomp down on women #like the shit with amber heard. everyone is so quickly to turn on women and demonize them when they’re literal victims and uplift men who #abuse them #but sure men are demonized in society and don’t feel cherished enough and that’s a problem! /s #neon talks #misogyny

[mikakuna]

my problem is that i always end up emotionally invested in the angry abuse victim character-- the character who is always the "wrong" kind of victim. the one who lashes out and is violent, a complete juxtaposition to their sunshine/lawful good counterparts in the media.

i end up resonating too hard with these characters that i always end up on the shitty side of the fandom where people will see you as a bad person for enjoying representation of an angry victim.

#and then i get brain damage from people's horrible takes that involve real life accusations #why the fuck would i support the death penalty because a fictional character kills people #are you using your minds #what part of seperate fiction and reality do you not understand #you genuinely CANNOT be a part of a fandom if you don't understand that rule #or there's the people in the fandom who don't know shit about abuse victims so when they write stories including such characters #they depict them in such clearly ableist ways #and in the victim blaming sense!! #like fuck #when is it my turn to join a fandom and become a fan of a character who doesn't induce such anger from other fans #jason todd #red hood #batman

[lagosbratzdoll]

This is a very very unfinished thought but I've been thinking a lot as I reread the books about how the women of House of the Dragon don't really get catharsis and how that'll likely be worse in S2. Say what you want about asoiaf but a number of named women there experience catharsis.

They kill their abusers (Lysa, Cersei, Dany). They regain some agency after a violation (Lysa, Cersei, Lady Stoneheart, Dany), and they refuse to forgive the people complicit in their subjugation (Lysa, Cersei, Dany, Lady Stoneheart, Jeyne Westerling).

Obviously, three or four isn't enough in such an expansive cast of characters but the point remains that they claw back their autonomy however they have to. They're allowed to be angry, bitter, unforgiving and cruel to their abusers in a way women in House of the Dragon just aren't allowed. They're allowed grief, grief that is violent and destructive.

The women of House of the Dragon don't get angry. They stand around and stare plaintively at the camera, they cry prettily, and they plead for peace and non-violence. They suffer and suffer and suffer and there's no relief.

#although dany doesn't really set out to kill her abuser #in fact she doesn't really think of him as her abuser #but the fact remains that her story begins with his death #she gains her dragons and agency through his death #lysa murdering jon arryn #lysa not going to riverrun when hoster is on his deathbed despite cat's letters #she denies him relief for his crimes against her and it's one of my favourite moments in asoiaf #cersei killing robert #cersei eating robert's children taking back reproductive autonomy from the man that hurt her #lady stoneheart turning her grief and pain onto the riverlands #she hangs freys boltons and lannisters uncaringly #it's a failing of the storytelling because this is supposed to be the feminist retelling of the dance #but instead the misogyny that leads up to the dance has been defanged. #the point of the show has been obscured behind endless arguments of the supposed illegitimacy of rhaenyra's first three children #the women fighting for power have been replaced by evil men perched on their shoulders telling them to do bad things #they're helpless victims carried along by the stream of inevitability #or something idk #also i am not including alicent trying to take luke's eye and injuring rhaenyra as cathartic because they are not the cause of her sufferin #house of the dragon #not asoiaf thoughts #daenerys targaryen #lysa arryn #cersei lannister #lady stoneheart #alicent hightower #rhaenyra targaryen #helaena targaryen #rhaenys targaryen

[leupagus]

You know what I thought of at 3 am last night (this morning) and haven't stopped thinking about

is that Aziraphale and Crowley drew up all that power for Gabriel's protection — one that was so powerful all the demons and angels desperate to find him couldn't do it — and they never thought to use that same miracle for themselves.

#good omens #something about familial violence #about how older siblings will get out of a abusive or toxic family #and will maintain just enough contact #so that those family members who might want out too can find them #and ask for shelter #even the family members who abused them — because it's sometimes the abusers who are themselves victims in turn #something about how the ones who escaped will hold open that door #even if it kills them #if it means someone else is freed #I doubt Aziraphale or Crowley ever thought about it #(hell I don't know if Gaiman did either) #but I'm having emotions #ineffable motherfuckers

[rhaenin-time]

It's not sexist to claim that Alicent was probably the most responsible for the Dance of the Dragons out of any individual it's actually sexist to claim that it's sexist to claim that.

#I'm not fucking kidding #benevolent misogyny at play here #she had 10 YEARS to stop abusing Rhaenyra and turning her brothers against her and dehumanizing her sons #When neither Daemon nor Otto were a factor that was ALL her #You don't get to dig your own imaginary grave and then claim you were left with no choice #Especially when your abuse victim literally offers you a hand out of that grave (and for marriage) #And if Alicent thinks that marriage is a “trap” it only proves she was always going to usurp Rhaenyra because that is the only circumstance #that would make it a “trap” #asoiaf #hotd #hotd critical #fire and blood #team black #asoiaf fandom #house of the dragon #anti team green #hotd sexism #rhaenyra targaryen #anti alicent stans #benevolent misogyny

[solbellaria]

Because of the Shelby situation I'm getting dream smp videos on my fyp and dear lord some of these people are not right in the head. Why are you comparing domestic abuse to the servers lore and Hamilton the musical??

#“lmao dream with his response is so angelica and wilbur is hamilton 😆” i have 3 letters #please be normal about victims of abuse im begging #its awful seeing shelby bravely speak up about her experience and it getting turned into a meme #shubble #wilbur soot

[mintharasthrone]

if orin was a man she would be so much more popular and given the most empathy

#orin the red #orin #and not met with the misogyny or people not acknowledging what she is a victim to. she's faces violence and the only person #she's been groomed into “loving” is a man who had her by raping her own sister he wants to rape her or for durge to rape her and abuses her #i loathe that a character who is a woman who has faced things that are part of really graphic serious subject matter as a joke or to mock #like if people look at orin and go haha stupid evil crazy woman larian should have done better and not made light of this #the fact that people think she's the least sympthatic is pure misogyny #how tragic that i will never see her turn her rage violence and chaos at the men who abused her groomed her and used her #and she dies so some fucking man can live and get a new life #if you're gonna yell at me about this post i will not respond #even dare i say the most popular villain? if there wasn't durge/gortash? even larian panders to any fav male characters she gets no love #ketheric is an abusive selfish father and the game and fandom see him as some sympathetic character....orin has zero autonomy thinking #ketheric is not even sympathetic but even saying gortash has it the worst more than orin is pure misogyny and your blind thirsting #she has even more trauma than any male version of her can have because misogyny but that's the irony #she would get the empathy if she was a man & female characters in general would be more loved/popular/defended if they were men lbr #those essays an energy women and fandom only put into expressing empathy for tragic men

[proudfreakmetarusonniku]

also like y’know people have no clue what they’re talking about when they’re like “tommy needs to take responsibility for the rape jokes he made” uh. you mean the rape jokes freddie and jack made on his video, he literally did not make the rape jokes. freddie is himself a victim, and both of them very obviously didn’t do it on purpose at first. literally why the fuck should he apologise for something he literally didn’t do when we are talking about his friend being revealed to be a rapist and abuser- a friend who tommy's roommate and another victim of wilbur rue has indicated mistreated tommy as well. like that is almost certainly what he is going to talk about, either that or his own sexual harassment which he is Presently Doing A Live Show About. like Tommy was sent graphic rape threats after being doxxed do you think that doesn’t count or something he has every right to talk about that if he wants to.

#like y’all transparently do not care about victims when you spread lies like this bc why u holding someone accountable for jokes someone #else made when they’re doing a video presumably talking about how a close friend turned out to be an abuser to an audience that might not #know yet like do you want people to spread awareness or not

[littledead-ridinghood]

Saying Batman hits his kids and all his other abusive tendencies only exist because people want to use them as “tropes” to woobify his children is not like…the good take you think it is

It’s important to me that you all know that. It’s not actually bad, an ‘incorrect reading of the text’ or ‘only acknowledging bad writing’ when people want to talk about how Bruce’s actions can actually severely effect those around him.

It’s also important to me that you all know that while maybe a parent hitting their adult child may not count as child abuse because the child is no longer a kid, it does; however, still count as assault, battery, and can even be considered domestic abuse if their living or staying at the manor at the time it happens and is still very, very bad and not okay

#bruce wayne hate club #do I tag the side kicks? is this something i should antagonize? #sure I’ll tag the kids #bats + birds #dick grayson #cassandra cain #jason todd #tim drake #damian wayne #stephanie brown #<<<she’s not his kid but she was his sidekick and he treated her something awful #this next tag is going to be sooooooo petty and completely ignore the genre we’re engaging in but bare with me: #‘Batman isn’t a child abuser! he’d never hurt a child! he’s great with children victims! he was a hurt child who doesn’t want other hurt #children to turn into him’ #Batman does however commit battery and assault every single night so check mate he’s okay with that

[fernsnouveau]

What if we suggested that if you can't defend the Miraculous S5 ending without sounding like Mother Gothel, don't do it at all?

#of course the other option of just making completely baseless claims isn't that great either #ml s5 criticism #ml writing salt #ml writing criticism #ml critical #(I don't like that tag but whatever) #ml s5 finale #abuse #abuse apologism #whatever the writers may have intended. the thing that they actually produced #turned out abuse apologia and a power fantasy for abusive parents with a god/martyr complex #and a justification for why child abuse victims are just too emotionally immature and volatile to deserve control of their lives #'but Gabriel loved Adrien!!!' okay do you have any idea how many abusers use that to justify violating their victims? #it's sincerely jarring how comfortable the fandom has become with abuse apologia ever since the s5 finale. #it makes the fandom kinda unsafe to navigate for abuse victims who might not wanna keep running into people #repeating the same justifications ad nauseaum that irl abusers use.

[socksandbuttons]

i wonder if its gonna make sense that lunar explaining reminded me a lot of lapis

#like she didnt ACTUALLY want to return to jasper. but missing people who hurt you?? its apparently a common thing with abuse victims. #its not a 'oh lunar wants to go back!' no its complicated feelings. he knows its irrational to be thinking it despite everything. #comes back to the one comic i did where. yeah he had hopes for something better with eclipse! but it never turned out that way. #it probably doesnt help that Solar is something that works much better for lunar. #uhh ill stop with the thoughts but i know people are pointint that out #its just i dont think its Lunar wanting eclipse back. #laes spoilers

[bojackhorsemanobviously]

important take.

#bojack horseman #he's a child abuse victim turned abuser suffering from anxiety depressiong and serious cptsd people are gonna relate #it would have also sent people spiraling

[mxtxfanatic]

I’ve seen people talk about Shen Jiu as a part of and metaphor for the cycle of abuse, but I’m currently fascinated with how a part of that cycle in the novel is the backwards justification for abusing one’s victim. Shen Jiu abused many children and ran off many a disciple before Luo Binghe appeared, but when Yue Qingyuan speaks to him for the final time in the Water Prison, Shen Jiu deflects from reflecting on his actions by claiming that not only is there no point to the reflection, but because Luo Binghe is supposedly a threat now (to which he didn’t actually know this), that means that he would have been justified in actually killing Luo Binghe as a child (ignoring the fact that…that’s literally what he had already secretly attempted to do).

Yue Qingyuan rightfully points out that Shen Jiu is responsible for who Luo Binghe has become as an adult (even though he and the rest of the sect share that responsibility too, but I digress), but Shen Jiu basically says that not only was he justified, but he should have gone farther because Luo Binghe had/has the potential to be dangerous. Which like, yeah, literally anyone has the potential to do evil, but interesting that this argument isn’t made to justify his abuse of the other children who just so happened to fade back into obscurity after leaving the peak, that Shen Jiu acts as if Luo Binghe was his only victim, and that it was pre-ordained that Luo Binghe would be evil (which lol but also no) so he had to treat him like the monster he “would” become while he was still an idealistic, eager-to-please child. If any of Shen Jiu’s other former victims had come forward seeking accountability or revenge, would they also have been decried as villains with ulterior motives? For a man unwilling to admit his mistakes even to himself, would any form of retribution have been considered acceptable enough to treat as legitimate?

Anyways, the logic of abusers is that abuse justifies itself, making it so that suddenly an abuser can claim victimhood when the true victims come calling. A part of this that is oft overlooked but equally as important.

#svsss #kinda wanna do one of these for bingge #but i feel like i understand his interiority even less so I won’t #also shen jiu gets a whole extra about him (that I’m finally reading) whereas bingge doesn’t #but i think his would be on the entitlement aspect of victims-turned-abusers #the idea that because the world treated you shitty you are now ‘owed’ by everyone and everything around you #human metas mxtx

[dwreader]

i'm sorry but making art/jokes about claudia being homophobic is not cute or funny. she has plenty of reasons to dislike lestat and want to keep him away from louis and putting homophobic slurs in her mouth is actually very nasty.

#why does everything have to turn lestat into a victim #claudia can't even be righteously angry at her abusive father?? #ridiculous fandom