#they depict them in such clearly ableist ways | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

justin-chapmanswers · 10 months

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Hello Mr.Chapman!

I wanted to bring this to your attention with the newest episode! I loved it, it was very good! however, there was this one scene that rubbed me and a bunch of other disabled people in the community the wrong way.

The scene with bot and telling Cabby the wrong information about them and then asking Cabby to not write anything down felt very off,, as someone who suffers bad memory loss from amnesia and such and tends to write things down to remember really threw me and a bunch of others off! i’m really hoping you and the team can bring this up and talk about it and listen to us on this topic! it would mean a lot to me and the other disabled people in the community ❤️

Hello!

Sorry for the delayed response to this conversation, we've all been traveling and I just arrived back home. But yes! Received a lot of questions regarding this here on Tumblr (as well as positive messages that I super-appreciate but of course this deserves to be addressed first), and I definitely want to hit on it before I get swept away again.

Thank you (and everyone!) for all of your messages regarding this topic. I have been reading and ingesting so much of this conversation and am very glad for everyone who's spoken up on the topic. I understand there had been debate regarding what's right and what's wrong with this angle of the Bot-Cabby story, and Cabby's depiction as a whole, but I'd like to put all the comments on the side of "I don't see it that way because xyz" to the side for the purpose of this post (although I appreciate your perspective as well, especially those who personally connect to the material).

I do want to start the dive-in with a sorry to who felt overwhelmed by this conversation as a whole, because clearly elements within the writing could have been tweaked and we wouldn't be needing to have this conversation. But absolutely a good one to have, anyway, because the show's history has been far from perfect in this regard. And, even more-so, want to say sorry to anyone who felt personally hurt by anything in the episode that read as ableist. While this was far from any intention, it certainly lead to plenty of hurt.

I figure I'll try to lay out as much of this conversation as I can, so it's clean and transparent all in one place, but of course feel free to keep the conversation going. It shouldn't end with me, whether that's more asks here or in your own circles.

I'll start with intentions within the writing regarding the more common talking points of the episode, and then hit on where things could have been corrected in execution. As Anonymous noted earlier, there's the segment where Bot presents Cabby with incorrect information. Understandably, leading a lot of people to feel uncomfortable with how this affects Cabby, who has difficulty with information. On my end, this was never really desired for this to come across as good normal healthy behavior. With the queer narrative in mind, Bot is insecure and uses this as a device to cope with their stress over being put under a microscope while they're still learning to feel confident. And have a Bow file in front of them. Hence Bot rejecting open-communication about Test Tube, offered by Cabby early on, to continuing to make outlandish claims about themself, as well as opening up authentically with true statements once they felt that safety and connection that they've needed. Starting the two off in a really rough place, and eventually getting the two to hear each other a little better and start communicating more healthily.

But does that make it any more comfortable to watch when you have Cabby's history in mind? Probably not. Perhaps out of all criticisms that had been laid out, this is the only one that I had not considered coming up in the many months since this episode's been written, until episode release. No excuse, that's on me. I think a lot of it was softened in my head by the fact that Bot had been completely unaware of all Cabby goes through, and that when Bot finally gains some insight, they soften up towards Cabby. I've seen others levy that note in these discussions, but ultimately it's not my place to say. I completely see now why this can be discomforting, especially in its presentation as being doing in such a light playful manner, no matter whether or not it was intended to be seen as a flaw that is fixed in the context of the episode.

There's also the other note that Anonymous mentioned here, regarding Bot telling Cabby to not write anything down. Intentions aren't too different are exciting, all very similar to last time regarding queer insecurity, Bot not understanding Cabby's situation, and the goal for the episode being to show they start in an unhealthy place and land in a good one. I think where a lot of that falters, were that to be the right starting place for the story at all (and understandable if you argue that it shouldn't have been) is not giving Cabby more support before the end of the episode to show that Bot understands them as much as Cabby gets to prove she's gotten to understand Bot.

There was initially space given to that in the episode but to try to tighten things a bit, we figured it'd be okay to hold onto that since there's still time to explore that. But I've given the advice before, even within the II team, to make sure that these types of issues conclude within the context of the episode as to not give any wrong ideas as-to what the takeaway should be. Unfortunately, I overlooked my own advice this time around. I do like the moments given to Bot and Cabby to show that they have learned to support one-another after learning about each other on an intimate level, but I think it's important to vocalize what these understandings are more explicitly.

Aaaaand also in general I've been wishing that I had made that moment a little softer, were it to be there at all. Between script completion and episode release I'm always poking holes in what I've written, especially as I watch it go from page to screen and things may get adapted in ways I didn't (but often should have) anticipated. That line in particular I've found to be pretty harsh in vibe for a while now, so we're on the same page. If it had to be a beat, I think something softer and more communicative could have been helpful. I do think it's fair for Bot to want to put up boundaries, but it could have been an open dialogue on the subject.

The thought then was that while Bot has discomfort with Cabby, due to their difficult history, they would offer Cabby an alternative accommodation via a more healthy form of communication and repetition that could then work as a compromise. But yeah, completely see why that's also a point of iffiness too, as the files are the intended accommodation. This was all less intended to be another finger-wag at Cabby's files in the way that was presented before Cabby returned to the game, but more-so to highlight how difficult the subject is for Bot. But the way that this could ignite both side of the coin should've been accounted for.

On a similar note, there was another point brought up in a separate ask-

"did she really have to us her file as a ramp? i hope that this isn’t going to go into the direction of ‘oh she’s cured now!’"

Similar to above, it's another case of me mentally prioritizing the story of Bot for their concluding-ish episode and their bond with Cabby, as opposed to Cabby as an individual. I had a visual in mind for a very long time of the Bow file crushed at the end of Bot's journey without any intention of it reflecting on how Cabby uses files, but rather about Bot feeling more comfortable in their robotic skin and others understanding them as an individual.

That is to say, no, there was never any intention that this would indicate that Cabby is done with using her files to collect information for better-navigating their life, and for her broader love of information-gathering. it is just to say, whether correct or not to implement, that they understand Bot's boundaries and see why having a Bow file for Bot can be seen as distasteful, now that they better understand who Bot is. Cabby still has the files, and there's always been every desire to continue to shed light on her story and perspective in the future. And now, with more consideration.

An aside, I suppose, but I do love Cabby. One of my favorites, always has been. In every episode I've written with her in which she is a notable character so far (10, 11, 14), I've wanted to lean into exploring how Cabby navigates difficult social scenarios in which, no matter how strained it may be at the start, we land in a place of others learning to see the plentiful good in her and/or show that they're willing to stick by her side wholeheartedly. With the Indefinite Islanders, Yin-Yang, Bot, etc. I say all of this to try to clarify that I've never had any intention of vilifying Cabby, and I'm really sorry to all of those who connect closely to her who feel as though I was trying to make her out to be a bad person. Again, although the intention was never negative, it's the outcome that matters most- so I am sorry.

And I'm not looking for anyone to write to me "great, all good now, all forgiven" or anything. I'm just looking to continue an important conversation. I know even before the episode's release, there's been plenty of this discussion here on Tumblr, which I am appreciative to have been able to look through and analyze as thoroughly as I can to understand every angle.

But yes, thanks for bearing through this long block of text. If anything comes across as messy, apologies, running on two or three or so hours of sleep, but I am happy to hit on anything that needs clarification or other elements later after work. I don't see myself making any big posts like this again soon, but at the very very least I'll read over what's sent in the ask box as always.

While I'm good with any and all continued conversation, my only request is that you all please just go easy on the rest of the crew. It's been a very emotionally-intense last few weeks, and a lot of the team is just in an overwhelmed state at the moment for a thousand different reasons. They're all trying their best to do and handle everything. But it can be a lot, especially when it's dealing with the Internet, and when it's thousands of voices screaming in your direction all at once. Thank you!

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sonicasura · 21 days

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Let's be honest with ourselves that Transformers Earthspark has its issues. It isn't uncommon for the series to have a few messy iterations throughout the years. However those at least have something going for them.

Bayverse is a junk pile yet there's a lot of material you can build off on and some pretty interesting concepts. RiD15 is an awful sequel to Prime but does decently well as a standalone although there are much needed changes to be had. Earthspark... Well, it's just there.

I can be lenient with the plot holes and poor pacing as Nickelodeon is notorious for interfering with any show that isn't SpongeBob to the point of cancellation. The issues truly land on the characters themselves. I'm gonna try to simplify it without devolving into a rant like the previous draft.

Edit: Gonna add some further edits as I wrote this in the middle of the night. Plus my simplified version skipped some key details.

Robby. Somehow they made a human character I actually dislike instead of be neutral about. In the official Transformers wiki, he's labeled as a big brother who cares for his siblings but his actions so far say otherwise. Robby literally ran away in the first episode because they moved then decided to try and hide the Terrans from his parents.

Yet he rarely gets enough consequences for his actions. I think we don't just need less Emberstone saves not just because of plot armor but force actual character growth on him. Like a life changing to one of his siblings as consequences for his actions and strained relationship until he gets his head outta his ass.

Edit: Yes, I know Robby is a teenager but that isn't a decent enough excuse for his behavior. Seen the trope about big brothers who do act closed off or at some points rude but they haven't done shit that put their family in serious danger. No, I didn't try to purposely forget the times he was injured badly.

There honestly needs to be less of those and his consequences be adjusted to it affects someone else badly. *

Next issue is lacking confrontation with Optimus choices alongside the obvious misplaced trust in the 13 Primes. Quintus Prime literally emotionally manipulated and scarred Mo through a fake bad ending reality because she doubted herself. No good person would do that, much less an actual ally. Even moreso on a child.

I seen this shit in Trollhunters but at least Jim, the main character, was a teenager. (It still was wrong though.) We also got remember that Liege Maximo and Megatronus/The Fallen are Primes. Yet somehow it is best to trust them.

Don't get me started with some of Optimus' choices when it comes to GHOST. He probably did it to protect his Autobots but what about the Decepticons who are locked away? Why are there so little of his companions with him especially since Bumblebee had fucking went into hiding before the show began.

There needs to be tension between Optimus with his Autobots. Someone is bound to snap and Bumblebee would have the biggest impact. The man clearly isn't okay as he's doing things that even Megatron admits ain't like him.

Mandroid needs to be written differently. He has the making of a sympathetic villain but oh boy. First off it is clear that his depiction is ableist aligned since the reason he doesn't like Cybertronians is because he lost his arm. Major thing to change right there.

Give him a narrative where his interest been genuine but slowly declines as the Autobot/Decepticon war increases the number of destroyed lives. Let him become a victim to this than just 'I lost my arm so death alongside experimentation to all Cybertronians'. Also don't make Mandroid ignore the obvious fact that the Transformers parts he puts into his body is slowly poisoning and instead come up with ways to fight the infection. Kinda like in Ironman 2 where Tony's arc reactor began to do the same thing.

Edit: Mandroid's negative views on Cybertronians are about the war and he's aware of the Energon poisoning. It is just that it is poorly portrayed to the point you rarely see it over his Arachnamechs/his ruined life.

Have the man present various evidence of destruction the war caused by both sides at the Malto children or anonymously spread such info around town to sew discontent with the townsfolk. 'These are the people who you consider heroes. Who you see as family and friends. Or should these tragedies be forgotten?'

Do a Baxter Stockman where you frequently see him try to fix the Energon poisoning than just simple dialogue. Even have testing on organic subjects to see how they react and find ways to counter it. Don't keep these key points as simple dialogue. *

I don't think Karen needs much changes either. 'But her taking over Cybertron doesn't make sense!' It actually does for one reason: hubris. Have you ever seen what happens when you give a control freak power? Their behavior becomes more erratic as they begin to think they deserve more. She is xenophobic in nature so imprisoning Decepticons and ordering around the Autobots is a drug to her.

Karen wants to treat them like slaves so the next step in her mind is Cybertron. Her death is well deserved and well played. Just like Icarus, the bitch flew too close to the sun.

I think the last major issue, other than out of character racist Shockwave, is the Terrans. No offense but they need a bit less screentime so the rest of the cast can shine. We barely see Alex and there's unclarified issues involving Bumblebee with Arcee if he's uncomfortable around her.

I also want their flaws to be at the forefront. Thrash is the only one who gotten such character development from his encounter with Swindle. We need more of that! Like Hashtag's overreliance on the Internet biting her back as she is forced to use real world skills.

Edit: I accidentally put in Terrans when I really meant Twitch. The screentime for everyone needs to be balanced mainly for the Malto family. Alex alongside the three younger Terrans rarely get involved or their characters further build upon. Twitch needs to get benched more.

Also the Dad Number 2 should really be addressed. Wheeljack was clearly uncomfortable when it been brought up. Plus it is way too fast to even consider such ideas unless you plan to have it addressed properly. Like 'Kid. We barely know each other yet somehow I became a father figure in an instant? It's best not to do that until you truly certain "Dad Number 2" doesn't mean harm or feels comfortable with it.' *

Earthspark clearly has potential but these problems need to be handled better. Addong the deleted scenes help add some clarification but canon needs to present it. We are supposed to get a second season so hopefully some of these are addressed.

#sonicasura #maccadam #transformers #transformers series #transformers earthspark #tf #tf series #tf es #tfes #personal idea #rambles #tv shows #slight rant #personal review #fixing canon #canon divergence #character flaws

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gartenofbanny · 9 months

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Hello! I am currently trying to make a document including all evidence of Viv's problematic behaviour, and since you're quite popular in the critical community, I wanted to ask your opinion on the structure of it. If I missed anything feel free to correct me!

Vivziepop is a horrible person

I-early signs

-Nazi sausage party ocs (inspred by doctor Mengele, following a nazi blog

-drawing Kesha and glorifying her illness

-Zoophobia (contains the Addison drawings, Mirage being depicted as goofy when she's a pedo, Sahara and Latika designs

-supporting blaire white and Shoe0nhead (her too since Shoe has recently been revealed as a neo nazi)

-transphobia (discord messages)

-drawing Mimzi as a caricature/stereotype of Jewish people

II-Spindlehorse & twitter

-Raphielle shipping valangel, saying their a proshipper and still working on SH

-Following multiple proshippers, including someone who used audios of REAL kids for his digital CP and someone who actively ships Rick/Morty

-allowing and encouraging the harrasment of people who critique her shows to the point they are forced to come out or receive rape threats

-Blaming A24 for the lack of competent advertisement on Hazbin Hotel and replacing the voice cast

-encouraging harassing Erin Frost and Kendraw for coming out with their experience with her

-Studio reviews revealing the nepotism and abuse in the SH studio

III- The shows

-finn/ cole was made cis when he was originally trans

-sally mae only regarded by the fandom as a trap or futa, sexualised in every piece of her merch with her dick being emphasized to the point the fandom fetishizes her

-alastor being made creole or mixed as an afterthought, when Viv had already used real life voodoo symbols, very clearly inspiring alastor from Wendigos without any research, made him white as paper and depicted him as the 100th " asexual and aromantic person is an evil murderer!".

His asexuality and possible aromanticism is always ignored by the fandom in favor of shipping, and inclusive Vivziepop even said to do as they pleased with his sexuality for shipping.

-forced positivity, pushing the idea that even murderers, abusers and horrible people can change hazbin hotel

Depicting abuse (Crimson hitting Moxxie, the whole Valangel tag existing) and sexual assault (again woth Moxxie and angel) as funny jokes or sexy

-Noticing a pattern, Viv tends to promote M/M relationships a lot but depicts them as overtly sexual, predatory and toxic, and seems to have a problem with having "twink" characters abused sexually in a yaoi-ish way (Addison, Moxxie and Angel, Vox. Stolas/blitz too.)

-the only two people of color that are confirmed are Alastor, Velvette and Valentino. Velvette's color is very ashy and she is often infantilised (this might have more to do with her being a woman in Vivs eyes) she presents no POC features at all, neither does Valentino who is a stereotypical black man who is a pimp, abusive (sexually too) and has a short temper.

-using "it's hell " as an excuse to make horrible characters to glorify and depict as the true victim while doing nothing to become better. (Ex. Stolas is a rapist , Blitzo Sexually harrasses his co-workers and is very toxic, Alastor is a serial killer.) Depiction is not glorification, but Viv actively makes it seem like all of it is okay to do and has a show who has a very negative message that affects the viewers and fanbase into excusing disgusting shit.

-disrespecting religion by not accurately researching the demons she talks about

-Sexist writing in helluva and hazbin that favores males(Loona,Millie,Stella, Verosika)

-ableist language by Blitzo, refusal to acknowledge this and even joking about not being able to say a slur

-collaborates with Brandon Rogers,whose work is clearly sexist,racist,homophobic and ableist

-making fun of eating disorders (Moxxie)

-involving kesha in her show while she is trying to get justice for being abused and trying to recover, making the character she voices based on all the things she hated about herself

-included famous voice actors, pays thousands for them but actively underpaid and overworked her staff

-No trigger on an episode that contained Blitzo vomiting

-Barbie wire grooming a teenager is considered a joke (and the tweet doesn't count, we should be able to tell if the teen was actually older by his design or any line of dialogue, if those who don't have twitter won't know it means it's a problem)

-various incest jokes hinting at proshipping (Moxxie/Millie, and a rumor +dialogue cues hint at Andrealphus and Stella being in a relashionship)

-merch of almost all female characters being somewhat sexual

-depicting the Woman/Man as the only healthy relationship (Moxxie/Millie) while the queer couples are toxic (Chaz/Moxxie Blitzo/Stolas)

Holy shit that's a long read, I suggest you make that into a blog post or something. The only portion I can assume that you got correct is the third section. Most of the first two sections are spot on to me, but I am not sure if they're both completely correct because I'm not really aware of what Vivziepop did in the past, just what she has been doing since like last year. Sorry to disappoint, but it is pretty great from what I'm reading.

Modify it to what you think is best so that people will read from it and test read it yourself in case you got something wrong. I suggest you use Grammarly for grammar or spelling issues because even though English is my first language I still struggle with those

#helluva boss #vivziepop critical #helluva boss critical #helluva boss criticism #vivziepop criticism #vivziepop #helluva critical #helluva boss critique #vivienne medrano #hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel critique #hazbin critical #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel criticism

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fandomsoda · 4 months

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I have just learned that someone very important in the Xvials community has been forced to stop posting about the ship due to the harassment they are receiving.

Needless to say, I am absolutely livid about this, not only for losing someone important in a small community of mine, but absolutely disgusted that people would harass someone over a ship that DOESN’T HAVE ANYTHING FUCKING WRONG WITH IT.

Harassment is already wrong obviously I shouldn’t have to say that, but it’s ten times worse when the reason behind it isn’t even fucking valid. Even if it were, harassment doesn’t work and only causes people to either double down or become emotionally unstable and puts them in danger. Harassment is never the answer in these times.

So here’s everyone’s (un)friendly reminder that Xvials is not problematic, Xvials is not pro/ship, a lot of people just have very weird views of how the multiverse works and haven’t refreshed themselves on X-Tale in a while and let their hatred of XGaster get out of hand. It’s totally fine not to like it, but don’t lie about it.

I’m gonna quickfire debunk the primary claims I’ve been seeing surrounding Xvials, btw for those out of the know, Xvials is XGaster x Ink, sometimes romantic but usually queerplatonic or some other abstract case. Let’s get started-

argument #1: “Ink’s adoptive dads are Gasters, so him being with a Gaster is pseudo-incest!”

Alright this alone to me is just ridiculous because like, actually think about that for a second, this is implying that every single Gaster in the whole multiverse is somehow related to Ink and that he can’t have unique relationships with them and I hope that everyone can recognize that the concept alone is absurd.

argument #2: “It’s abusive! They’re just using each other! XGaster actually hates Ink!”

Did we watch the same show? Because I don’t think we did, since in X-Tale their bond is repeatedly displayed and in Underverse it’s reinforced, with tons of extra things Jakei has posted emphasizing their bond. May I remind everyone of “come back”, this teaser Jakei showed depicting XGaster being actively afraid of losing Ink? Keep in mind how Ink is shown in a bright, important light here? He’s clearly afraid of losing him, they’re genuine friends, it’s not just for his own motives, and XGaster never treats Ink poorly, other than leaving him in the dark about things that I doubt he’s intentionally hiding from him, simply not thinking Ink would need/want to know. Like I said: totally fine if it’s not your thing or you don’t like it, but don’t fucking lie.

argument #3: “They’re both aroace!”

True, however that makes it even more likely for them to have a unique bond and understanding of each other than with others, definitely not romantic but as I said before, Xvials isn’t primarily romantic and all romantic depictions are fully recognized as fanon, if they appear at all. Also when I talk about them having a special and unique bond, that’s addressed in a canon comic, remember this from back in June? A lot of the time, the two being aroace is actually a very important component of Xvials portrayals. Especially in my case, since the way I think of them is very much hazy and queerplatonic, like all my ships with Ink.

argument #4 (this is going to sound satirical but I’m not even kidding, I saw someone say this): “It’s pseudo-pedophilic because Ink is very short and acts younger while XGaster is tall and acts mature!”

I… am at a loss for words. Take a look at that, think about what you just said, and go touch grass. Obviously, Ink and XGaster are both full grown adults with somewhat ethereal ages, no one here is a child, and labeling Ink as child-like comes off as very ableist for a number of reasons. Ink can definitely be childish, any character can, but that doesn’t make them “child coded”.

ok, that was a lot, but I just needed to get that off my chest, I… yeah. I think y’all get it. Good day.

#text post #small fandom psa #underverse #xtale #xtaleunderverse #xvials #ink sans #xgaster #kind of a rant #I feel so defeated right now #pr0ship dni btw #do not hijack this post to complain about “antis” I’m antiship myself

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scarlet--wiccan · 3 months

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Just out of curiosity but do you read/ hc pietro as neurodivergent? I know it’s a popular hc among fans and there’s certainly some moments that lend to that interpretation (plus I see a bit of myself and my brother in him so personally I hc he has mild autism) but I was wondering if you had any of your own thoughts on it, or for Wanda for that matter?

Yes, but it's complicated. Pietro and Wanda are both characters who spend a lot of time grappling with complex trauma, generational trauma, mental illness, and what are clearly meant to be read as neurological differences. I struggle with many of those things myself, and as a Romani person with an immigrant background, I get a lot out of reading these characters through that lens. It's an intrinsic part of what makes them so human and compelling to me, especially as part of a larger, intergenerational tapestry of mixed-race immigrants and survivors. These issues are a part of our heritages and histories, so I want that to be reflected in the characters who represent me.

I think it's hard to talk about neurodivergence or mental illness-- which, of course, are not the same thing, I just mean that the conversations tend to overlap-- with Wanda and Pietro because this is already, textually, part of the characters, but it's been implemented in really messy ways.

For both of them, their primary mental health challenges and neurological differences are treated as extensions or results of their powers. There is an allegorical element that gets in the way of literal representation. This sort of thing is very common in superhero comics, and I've written about it before regarding transness and genderfluidity. It's entirely possible to still write meaningful and resonant representation, but I don't know if I feel comfortable saying "Pietro is autistic"when the text is saying he doesn't have autism, he has a super-speed-mutation-brain. Does that make sense?

The other problem is that the material that introduced these elements to the characters is really problematic. I'm sure I don't have to explain why House of M is an ableist and sexist narrative, but a lot of people seem to overlook the fact that the depiction of Wanda as a person with specific mental illnesses is rooted in a harmful, ableist storyline. Specifically, the way that schizoaffective disorders are defined and pathologized in Disassembled is cruel, inaccurate, and just unacceptable. That tone is still echoed in a lot of modern comics when Wanda's mental health is addressed.

In addition, I really don't like to put too much stock in the whole "Pietro Maximoff Syndrome" thing from X-Factor. For one thing, Peter David is a hateful, vocal anti-Romani racist, and it is reflected in a lot of his choices with Pietro. While this direction did humanize and justify some of Pietro's personality flaws, I do feel that the tone was overall very derisive towards him.

In Scarlet Witch (2016), Wanda talks about going to therapy and taking antidepressants, and in Quicksilver: No Surrender (2018), Pietro talks about his complex trauma responses in a way that's specifically grounded to the reality of being a severely marginalized person of color. These are the best examples of how their mental health has been addressed-- they bypass the powers and allegory and just allow the characters to inhabit real experiences that actually deserve representation.

That said, it doesn't really represent neurodivergence the same way. I think that's a subject that superhero comics have been dancing around for a long time, but haven't quite figured out how to reckon with. I really hope its something we'll see more positive growth towards, in the future.

#mental health #neurodivergence #disability in comics

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teleportzz · 9 days

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how the hypothetical fandom would treat all my ocs:

emiliya: she'd get treated like a "mother figure" to her brothers and there would be discourse about how she'd be a better "parent" to them then their actual father. her character would get reduced to an eldest daughter syndrome archetype SOOOO quickly.

bohdan: the entire fandom would collectively love him at the expense of all other characters because he's a conventionally attractive teenager who can be shipped with another conventionally attractive teenager (seiyuweinyo) i think his fans would get put on dni lists

david: he's my favorite and the fandom would completely ignore him. he'd barely show up in fan content and the few people that would bother to include him would depict him in an ableist way

ivan: he would get the "bad parent della duck" treatment. get behind me ivan i'll protect you

chalguwo: the fandom would rip her to shreds and there would be a sexist and racist element to it. they're mad that a woman is so cool

seiyuweinyo: their fans would definitely be put on dni lists. SO much bland heavy angst content about them and bohdan. i cannot stress enough how bohdanweinyo would be the most popular ship in the fandom by a landslide

chusu: reduced to a girlboss character and shipped with chalguwo. her fans would be kind of toxic (it's a situation where they're clearly in the right but they're so annoying and rude about it that you're rooting against them anyway) and would start discourse when chalguwo ends up with dawn instead

raikorosei: she would be treated EXACTLY like belos from the owl house but with 3x the discourse

dawn: shipping discourse causer

day: reduced to a mother figure. would have basically no fans (even tho she's so cool :()

dusk: people would forget she exists. gets the same treatment as day but with even fewer people caring about her (even tho she's even cooler :()

night: girlbossification but her fans would be so much better and more normal than chusu fans. they would ship dawnguwo. ALSO goths would flock to her

in conclusion this fandom would suck so bad if it were real. thank god these characters live only in my head

#i made this post for an audience of literally only me #mecha speaks

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fdelopera · 10 months

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Who was pepose arguing with? What was he saying because I can’t seem to find it on twitter

David Pepose was arguing on Twitter with a system who's a friend of ours. They didn't tag him or hashtag his series. They simply tweeted that they were disappointed at how Marc's expression of Judaism was being handled in the series, which is a very valid criticism.

Pepose writes Marc as being riddled with guilt that appears very Catholic in its nature. Pepose describes Marc's motivation for his Moon Knight work as being based on penance for his guilt. This is in contrast to MacKay, who finds motivation based on a kind of tikkun olam, "repairing the world," which is more in keeping with a Jewish character.

Pepose singled our friend out and put them on blast to his followers by publicly arguing with them on Twitter. They're a very small account, and again, they didn't tag him. For him to have even found their tweet, he must have been scrolling through Twitter for criticism of his series.

I think he's been on Tumblr, too, because he blocked us on Twitter (where we have the same username), even though we haven't tweeted in over a year. I think the only way he would've found our Twitter is by reading our critical posts about his writing on Tumblr. It feels unhinged for him to have to have intentionally searched for us on Twitter and blocked us.

These are possibly the posts that he's seen. They were responses to two Anon asks:

I am deeply disappointed that Pepose's "City of the Dead" series seems to be every bit as bad as expected. Marc appears to be a singlet with "questionable mental health" (Pepose's own ableist words); he doesn't appear to be part of a system in this series.

Despite being Jewish, Marc seems to worship and identify with Khonshu, an Egyptian deity. Yes, Marc is in servitude to Khonshu, but that service is begrudging, and he understands the irony of that service as a Jew (as MacKay has written expertly in his run). For Pepose to write Marc as an enthusiastic disciple is bizarre.

Layla is written as some sort of spirit guide who is leading Marc on a quest through the Egyptian underworld. This has all sorts of Orientalist implications. Let me say it more clearly: She is a brown person being at the beck and call of a white person, acting as their spirit guide... Yeah, no thank you! The very "on the nose" Eye of Horus tattoo on her cheek was a giveaway to how she's being depicted here.

I cannot recommend this series, and I won't be supporting it financially, as much as I desperately want to support Layla El-Faouly's Marvel Comics debut. I've canceled the pre-order of the second issue, and I won't be buying the rest of the series, either. I cannot in good conscience support Pepose or give him our coin.

#moon knight #city of the dead #layla el-faouly #scarlet scarab #moon knight comics #words cannot adequately describe how disappointed i feel right now - though i have tried in this post

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silkiemae · 1 year

Text

The Gloom Between Stars by Piper CJ

Welp, I finished this dumpster fire of a book and just…Piper, why? This book is as poorly written and edited as the self-published version of TNAIM. I know this was technically an ARC, but Piper advertised it as a free ebook. She was handing out bound copies at book signings, so this is the finished work that she plans on publishing. The sheer amount of misspelt words, anachronisms, grammatical errors, etc., was ridiculous. This book reads like the editors just gave up on actually doing their job because they knew Piper wasn’t going to listen to a word they said. And where in the hell were the sensitivity readers?

This book was an absolute MESS, just as overwritten, pretentious and melodramatic as usual. Not only that, but some of the wording is so ridiculous. ‘His equilibrium was bobbing?’ The same handholding was present in the last two installments. Piper clearly thinks very little of her readers, considering the fact that she has to spell things out for them and is unable to leave any room for interpretation. I feel like I’m being talked to like an idiot through all 600 pages of this. Cherry picking from other religions, yet still trying to make it seem like there’s only one religion(the All-Mother), yet there are mentions of Yggdrasil(Norse myth), Seraphim(Christianity), and Bodhi(Buddhism). To be completely honest, I think Piper CJ is one of those authors that if anyone were to tell me they loved her and their books, I would immediately not trust them. These books are racist, ableist, plagiarized, misogynistic, and have absolutely horrid depictions of sex work. She doesn’t think suicide is enough to give a trigger warning but consensual breathplay that was not actually consensual is. And then she goes ahead to make jokes about the “consensual breathplay” like what she wrote wasn’t incredibly harmful. There’s also the fact that those who claim to love Piper and her books are incredibly cult-like with the way they blow smoke up her ass and reject any critiques against her. If you cannot handle criticism, you should not be an author. Sorry, Piper, but it’s true.

I truly wish that Bloom had some integrity and would not allow this fast publishing thing Piper is trying to do. All she is doing is barfing out a first draft and calling it done. She is not doing any of the work that is needed when writing a book, and this crap is what we’re left with. These books are not good at all, but if Piper had actually spent time on them, if she had listened to any feedback, then these books could’ve been good. There is potential in her prose, and she does a good job with sensory detailing, but she goes over the top every time and then, of course, there’s the problematic content that she refuses to acknowledge. This book spends far too much time explaining to us the thought process of everyone’s plans and telling us their feelings rather than showing them to us. It makes for an incredibly dull read. Just an example of how the majority of sentences are phrased in this book. “She thrust out a leg to sweep the stance of the corpse before picking up and continuing her run.” Do you really want to try and tell me that an editor read that sentence and said it was fine the way it was? Really? Anyway, on to the review.

So, we start where TSAIS left off; yet again, there is little to no recapping. Nox & Co. are chasing after Amaris, who has been kidnapped by Nox’s father, King Ceres. Ceres believes that Amaris was born to be his tool to start a war with Queen Moirai since she’s the one who cast the illusion spell over his people and is the reason he lost his wife and child. The writing with this is incredibly convoluted because, in book one, we’re told that Ceres believed he had a son, then in book two, we’re told that Daphne(Nox’s mother and Ceres’ lover) had switched out her daughter for a son with her husband’s complexion. The husband is not King Ceres, so why did the Raascot fae ever suspect that Daphne’s alleged ‘son’ was Ceres’? She spread the rumor that the boy was her nameless husband’s in an attempt to hide the truth from him, but he found out anyway and killed the boy and beat Daphne to death. So, somehow, this nameless husband has vanished after murdering both the princess and her son, and yet nobody seems to be aware of this? We never learn what happened to this guy, and Queen Moirai has literally been acting as if there is a Crown Prince, but it’s an illusion. So who is the Crown Prince that she’s conjuring? Is it the nameless husband? Is it the child who’s really dead? This is why Piper needed a developmental editor because none of this makes sense.

As Nox and her companions follow after Ceres and Amaris, Nox is fuming, hating everyone, and blaming them all for what happened to Amaris. To help, Malik leads her into the woods and goes down on her. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ This is the first chapter. As this is happening, Nox thinks longingly of the days she was a sex slave and used to suck men's souls out through their dicks. Nox admits to preferring women, but Malik is the exception—and again, as I stated in my last review, this was so poorly done. Nox has been depicted as someone who is repulsed by the touch of men and has been desperate to escape them so that she can be with Amaris, yet Malik does the bare minimum, and she is all for him. It doesn’t make sense. He didn’t do anything to earn her trust; he just was there. There are no meaningful conversations between them to give us the inclination that they might have feelings for each other. It’s just horniness and sensory details. After this, they try and figure out the fastest way to reach the army—why this didn’t happen in the first chapter instead of Nox getting head, I don’t know. But anyway, Yazlyn and Nox bicker, preparing us for their inevitable enemies-to-lovers arc. Honestly, a lot of this reads like Piper didn’t know wtf to write, so she jumped ahead and never came back to fix any of it. Honestly, that’s what the whole book reads like.

Eventually, they catch up to the army, and they’re attacked by mud demons, but nobody ever does anything useful to defeat them. Gadriel fucks off to go try, and reason with Ceres, who refuses to listen to reason—which, I get, but the way it’s written is just so absurd. They’re fist-fighting and sword-fighting while Ceres’ people are being massacred around them. The others realize that the demons are blind and have super hearing and start shouting to one another that they should be quiet(LMFAO, idiots) and are like, “Sound is our enemy!”. Can anyone think of who might be incredibly useful in this type of fight? I can. Fucking Amaris. Who has a sonic boom power. Gadriel never once considers finding her and having her use her abilities to help defeat these monsters. Not a single person ever considers using sound to their advantage, and these are supposed to be people who are trained in tactics and monster hunting. Yet none of them can come up with a plan to fight the demons. Like, wtf? I think Piper wrote herself into a corner with the whole ‘demons can’t be killed’ thing because we get scenes like this, with people fapping around, looking like absolute morons. There are five pages of Nox freaking out as she tries to cross a river because she’s a demon who can’t cross running water.

At some point, Malik finds a fae who can apparently control the demons. Again, the magic in this series has absolutely no rhyme or reason. The fae have no designated powers; the only thing we know is that the Raascot fae have powers associated with nightlife. And so far, that has been shadow magic, sucking souls out through sex, night vision, can get your neck broken and not die, can warm your body, can fly, etc. (what do any of those have to do with the other?) Why is Yazlyn so much weaker than her fae comrades? She does the same sort of exercise, does she not? Obviously, she has a different build than them, but there’s no reason why Yazlyn can’t be buff af too. Anyway, Malik stops the fae who was controlling the demons, Amaris got burned and is in a ditch somewhere, Nox finds Gadriel with her dad and is like, oh hello, father, and then he finally realizes that Gadriel was right all along, and instead of, idk, trying to make amends, or maybe help his kingdom he just is like ‘omg I fucked everything up here, take my kingdom!’ And kills himself. This was the clumsiest handling of suicide I have ever read. Not only does Piper give us a tw for ‘consensual breathplay’ (again, it was not actually consensual), but she doesn’t give a tw for suicide. Now, while I don’t believe that every book requires tw, I do understand why they’re there and considering Piper set a standard for including them in book 2, they should be included throughout the entire series. But again, doing the actual work is too hard for Piper, apparently.

So, Nox’s father kills himself for shock value and as a lazy way to thrust her onto the throne. They call his death a sacrifice, making it into something noble and historic when it’s not that at all. The way suicide is handled in this is just beyond insensitive, and once again, WHERE ARE THE SENSITIVITY READERS, PIPER?

After this little battle, we return to the Raascot castle. For the next three hundred pages, nothing happens. They hang out in the castle, they train, they talk, and they have poorly written sex. Nothing of substance happens whatsoever. I’ll tell you what does happen. Nox and Amaris reunite for the third time, and instead of being separated by physical circumstances, they have a really stupid fight. Nox, obviously, is traumatized after witnessing her father’s suicide, but Amaris, once again, is thinking all about her horniness and starts trying to make a move on Nox. Nox is like, uh no, wtf stop and Amaris, as usual, can’t handle rejection. They haven’t had a single conversation about what happened during their separation, they have only ever made out during their reunions, and now that they actually have the time and safety to have this discussion, Amaris is more interested in losing her virginity. Nox drops the bomb on Amaris that she is really the manifestation of prayer, and Amaris’ reaction is, WOW, HOW CRUEL ARE YOU TO SAY SUCH THINGS, NOX? Now knowing that Amaris was created solely for Nox, Nox is questioning if their feelings are real. And here is how Amaris chooses to respond.

”You feel confused? You, who has been such a constant in my entire life, even when I’ve had crushes on boys or liked men and spent years questioning what this relationship meant to me, only to finally accept that you are my exception. I love you, Nox. You’re the only woman I’ll ever want. Meanwhile, if the kingdom’s rumors are to be believed, you’ve been off fucking anyone and everything………..You’ve spent your whole life knowing the goddess made your heart for women, haven’t you? That wasn’t me, Nox. Do you know how confusing it’s been for me? I grew up liking boys! I like men. I do. I like fighting with them, I like training with them, I like wrestling and flirting and spending time with them. I’ve tried and failed on more than one occasion to create something with a man. And here you’ve been, destroying my feelings and twisting my head for years. You’ve had years to experience the world, you’ve let goddess knows who into your bed—but you were it for me. I thought that made this special, Nox. Finally, after all this time, I want the same thing you’ve always wanted. But the instant it was my choice in return, you turn me away. Do you know how fucked up that is?… We’ve had our whole lives to adjust! We’ve had two decades of time! Meanwhile, I still can’t get rid of my goddess damned maidenhood while you—”

SO basically, Amaris is a fucking hypocrite. She called Nox a whore, and Amaris wants to lose her maidenhead REAL BAD. “You’ve had years to experience the world” She was locked up in a brothel as a sex slave, Amaris, while you fucked off with the reevers and learned to fight. Are you really that mad that your brothers-in-arms didn’t want to fuck you? Also, confirmation that Nox is a lesbian with an exception for only one man. And Amaris is straight, with an exception for only one woman. That’s not bisexuality, Piper. “You were it for me” You…. literally tried to fuck Gadriel. And Ash. You lying sack of shit. The way Amaris is mad for being rejected and not at all concerned about Nox, who just watched her father die in front of her, learned she was heir to both kingdoms and is now a queen to a kingdom she has no business or knowledge of how to run. Nox deserves far better than Amaris, and I hope this series ends with her(Amaris') death. Because that’s the only way I’ll be satisfied.

After this fight, they decide they can’t be together until Amaris breaks the curse, and they can find out if their love is real. In the meantime, Nox assaults Yazlyn by shoving her forearm against her throat and then asks if she wants to fuck. The sex scenes are described uncomfortably, where the line of consent is incredibly fuzzy. But this is not the first time Piper has had issues with consent in her books, so I shouldn’t be surprised. Also, the written sex is gross It’s written as if the author has never actually been intimate with a woman because I can promise you it is not a bunch of “puddles and wetness and soaked sheets”. You’re not just squirting the whole time. I don’t think Piper has any concept of how to actually write spice because all these are a bunch of flowery metaphors. And then, of course, Amaris and Gadriel are still doing their choking/finger bang sessions because her power is tied to her sense of arousal. WTF? There’s also that last scene with Malik and Nox that will haunt me til the end of my days. ‘The complementary cream that frosted his muscles.” Are you fucking KIDDING?

The fae that Malik caught turns out to be an extremist who thinks the world needs to be purified of all fae creatures with human blood. She doesn’t mind humans as long as they don’t dally with the fae. She calls Ash a mongrel and calls Nox ‘it’. Kinda like how the author calls Nox ‘it’ in her first book title. “The Night and its Moon.” Now, this nazi fae is from Sulgrave, which has been depicted as East Asia…(wow, Piper) (also, how is Gadriel South Asian if his parents are from Sulgrave?) They literally end up treating this racist like a little pet. They give her a special room, give her books when she’s good, call her lovely and adorable and then give her some ‘exposure therapy’ by forcing her to hang out with Ash, who is both half-fae and white. And then….they fall in love. And it makes no sense at all as to why. All we know about Tanith is that she’s a racist zealot, and then she’s depicted as this little flower who needs to be rescued by Ash all the time. There’s a scene where Ash’s dad, Elil, goes apeshit and tries to kidnap the nazi because she’s an ‘enemy of the continent’, and Ash literally calls the statement deranged. Bro…he’s right. Honestly, the fact that I’m siding with the person meant to be depicted as raving is wild to me. Because he is right that Tanith is a danger to them all, and they’re being absolute morons by treating her the way they do. If it were to come back and bite them in the ass, Elil would be completely justified in being like, ‘told ya so’. Like, Ash legit tells his dad the nazi’s life is worth more than his dad’s. By the end of this, they behave as if Tanith has overcome her racism by being with Ash, but there is no evidence of that anywhere in the text. Nox even expresses that she hopes that Ash can ‘turn her’ with his lovemaking skills. Like, oh, you can just stop being racist if you fuck the person you’re prejudiced against! Do you think she’s changed because she asked Ash to stay with her after he rescued her from his dad? That could literally be tactical. She simply learns to tolerate them and hide her prejudice. Both Nox & Ash even say that they doesn’t think Tanith has shown any distance for her radical beliefs, but it’s okay because now she’s their friend—she’s not evil, Ash loves her, he would die for her, but she’s still a zealot.… Nox takes Tanith shopping to buy her a fancy new cloak, and they let her play ‘paintball arrows’ with the rest of their group; Ash falls in love with her in .2 seconds after she says ‘I’m sorry’ for nothing in particular and then crawls into bed with him. He buys her basically a promise ring of her favorite gemstone. Wtf? There were like four POV chapters from Ash with Tanith, and nowhere was there any room for romantic development or even character development from Tanith. Nowhere was there any de-radicalization of her racism. It reads more like the author is telling us we should be sympathetic to racists because they don’t know any better, and we should just be kind to them and befriend them, and eventually, they will learn to tolerate the people they are prejudiced against. But, uh, no. That’s not at all what anyone should be doing. We are told that Ash hated Tanith and then grew to like, then love her but it is never shown on the page at all. Just suddenly, they’re in love and Tanith is still racist.

Three hundred pages of dithering around until some action finally happens. Amaris, Malik, Yazlyn and Gadriel are sent out to kill Queen Moirai. Three hundred pages of reading about Amaris and Nox screwing other people and not having a single conversation discussing what the other has been through, but they make up anyway right before Amaris leaves to kill the Queen. I’m not entirely sure how anyone is meant to see an actual romantic relationship between these women when there is absolutely none present. The first book was a lot of longing on Nox’s part but none on Amaris’. The second book was more of the same, but Nox found a new beau who would eat her out, so she stopped thinking so much about Amaris. Now in book three, they barely think about one another. This is not the star-crossed bisexual romance I was promised. Anyway, they’re sent to Farleigh to ensure that the convenient manufactured items they were given will block the curse, only to find out that Agnes, the Gray Matron is a racist. She calls Gadriel and Yazlyn demons and seems more disgusted by their wings than anything. This is funny, imo because not only was Nox described as having bronze skin(but then later told she looks like her mother, who was white), so why wasn’t she treated with the same disrespect? She is clearly not a white person from Farehold, I’m pretty sure that Agnes was there when Nox was named, so she’s well aware that her name was Nox so she wouldn’t forget the night. So why the fuck is she suddenly racist towards the Raascot fae? Why did she suddenly seem to forget why Nox was named Nox and who Nox actually was? Because there’s no way she didn’t know. It doesn’t make any logical sense that she wouldn’t. Also, Amaris can call Gadriel ‘demon' and get away with it, but when Agnes does it, it’s racist…. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Come on, Piper.

Amaris has mastered her persuasion ability off-page, apparently, because now she’s persuading everyone without issue. To get into the castle, they decide to have Malik drive, and Amaris sits in the back with Gadriel and Yazlyn and then rips off Star Wars by pulling a ‘these are not the droids you’re looking for’ moment. On the carriage ride, Gadriel tells Amaris she’s the most amazing person to exist. ‘You are the most beautiful creature on this earth. You are the most talented assassin I’ve ever met. You are brave, you’re intelligent, you are quick on your feet, and you are incredibly capable.” I can provide text evidence to refute every one of those points. Amaris is an idiot and a coward. She literally goes into the castle with no plan at all. And spends the entire chapter explaining what everyone else is going to do. Like, ma’am, please stop.

Gadriel also says no other man is allowed to touch her, but apparently, it’s fine if Nox does it. Honestly, I fucking hate men like that.

The last sixty pages were the most exciting part of this book. Moiroi has invited all the nobles to her castle to lure Raascot’s sneaky task force to Aubade so that she can send all her forces to Gwydir. While Amaris & co. are trying to infiltrate Aubade, Nox & co. are being attacked by Farehold soldiers led by The Hand & The Hammer. The Hand is none other than Millicent, the brothel owner with the slithery reptile death hand, so she’s named after her disability…nice. The Hammer is some random buff dude with a spiked mace. Nox faces off against Millicent who tells her she killed Emily with no prompt whatsoever—honestly, I forgot about Emily because so did Nox. Nox throws Chandra and even though she’s sucked at it this whole time, she manages to hit her target and cut off Millicent’s death hand and then that’s done. Ash lets Tanith out of her binds(because even though she’s still a racist zealot, she’s not evil apparently, and Ash would die for her), and she incinerates a bunch of soldiers and Ash’s dad(even though Ash’s eyes were closed during this scene he somehow sees everything that happened, huh.)

Meanwhile, Amaris has been spending time trying not to repeat her past mistakes by whispering to every guard in Aubade to stand down if any fighting happens, but this ends up backfiring beautifully when an army of ghouls shows up to kill everyone. I thought this part of the book was very clever, but once again, it’s overwritten, and the reader’s hand is held throughout the entire thing. While Amaris chases after Moiroi, she’s unable to harm her because she has a ward protecting her. Instead of having Amaris figure out herself that the ward is her crown, Yazlyn literally shouts the answer to her while Moiroi stands there listening and gaping like, ’oh no! They’ve discovered my plan!’ Amaris then stands there for another few minutes debating on how to remove the crown from her head when she could literally throw a dagger and knock it off. But apparently, the All-Mother gave her the gift of shock wave specifically to knock the crown off her head. What? There are several more pages of Amaris agonizing over how to knock off the crown/summon her shock wave without being horny, and then Moiroi calls Amaris a witch, but isn’t she also a witch?

Oh my god, so we finally get the answer about the illusion of the Crown Prince. Moiroi has been creating an illusion of the boy she thought was her grandson this whole time to keep the people together. Idk that seems a bit ridiculous, imo. Did she not care about her daughter disappearing/dying? What happened to the husband who killed them both because Moiroi allegedly knows about him? That’s what I want to know. We also learn that Daphne was pregnant before Moiroi cursed Raascot, so how long after the curse was she married off? How far along in the pregnancy was she when Moiroi cast the curse? And how was it that Moiroi wasn’t present when Daphne gave birth? When royalty gives birth, it’s typically a whole affair with midwives and the lot, so how did no one but Agnes and the Temple Priestess know that she had a daughter? And also, considering Moiroi believed the grandson to be the nameless husband’s son, it also refutes the whole plot point in book one, where the Raascot fae were searching for King Ceres’ son. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ This is why you needed a developmental editor, Piper. Also, can I say that the dialogue in these books is absolutely atrocious? Nobody talks like this. At all.

Why is everyone in this book gagging? Is it because they’re as disgusted by Piper’s writing as I am? This book should be the last one with Amaris lingering on the precipice of death, and then she should stay dead. The End.

#piper cj #the gloom between stars #the night and its moon #book review #the sun and its shade #book rant

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olderthannetfic · 2 years

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Oh boy, anon who sent the one about walnuts in their fandom jokingly-but-not saying that people who didn’t headcanon a specific character as nd unlocked some memories for me lol that happened but worse in a fandom I was in (and left because there were way too many antis who were way too chill with threatening people), one of the two central characters of the fandom was *very* easy to read as autistic and because of this there were a handful of fairly big name fans claiming that they *were* autistic, and if you headcanoned them otherwise, you were ableist. You were also ableist if you made certain kinds of AUs, namely changeling AUs and similar, if you engaged with certain popular or once-popular trends in depicting the character, and if you engaged with ableism *at all* in your fanworks - even if you were exploring how ableism might affect the said character and the ableism was Clearly Bad in your work!!! Not everyone held all of these opinions, ofc, that last one in particular was pretty rare, but it felt very common to at least performatively agree with this stuff whenever it came up, at least in the anti circles I used to hang around in before I stopped being an anti. (That fandom was so awful, btw. Ruined the source material for a bit for me, and the antis in that fandom being so angry about the incest ship between the central twin characters gave me intrusive thoughts so bad that I genuinely had to start shipping to cope. I never would have shipped it if not for them screaming threats all the time and aggressively putting DNIs on everything.)

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starfruit-baby · 2 years

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Detroit Become Human is such a flawed game. I just got done playing it, and in some parts it was downright triggering. But I really like your blog, and a lot of the fandom, that see through the "pacifism is the answer to oppression" bullshit the game tries to shove down our throats, and have good takes in general about the characters and the storyline. Maybe you could offer your two cents? It still makes me wonder if it's right of me to engage in the fandom, even like this. I'm not black, or jewish, which were the two groups most attacked by this game's depiction and appropriation of thsir struggles. I don't feel I have the right to "reclaim" this game (is that the word?), even if I have subversive takes to it.

honestly anon, im very flattered and honored to be asked this, but i have to say i dont have any solid answers much less right answers about this :( i knew DBH has oodles of problems since release, ive been heavily criticising it myself since then, but for some unknown reason ive gotten pretty hyperfixated on it (i only played it because i got it for free, i can at least say id never hand my money over to the original creators), and i can only say my view on this (and most media of this genre), and its that i think it can be a constructive thing to criticise media from whatever background you have (?). i consider myself a huge hater because almost every media i like ill do exactly this, ill enjoy stories and aspects of it but basically go through a looking glass to each "social issue problem" (idk what to call it, sorry) i can spot to keep myself updated i guess? i dont always discuss it to not be the party pooper though

i came to tumblr also because it seems to be the most open to this, talking about the bad not just of the story but the choices made along bringing this game to life. for DBH in particular my thoughts are that there are a lot of good points it either accidentally made or just about missed the opportunity to do in regards of technology with capitalism, humanity's desensitization to abuse towards human-like things, and sometimes i try analysing why the horrible parts even exist or what makes them horrible if that makes sense? for example i may be wrong, but the North x Josh rivalry sort of came off to me as pitting two oppressed groups against each other as almost a test of your own morals, would you as the player rather side with a sexually traumatised 'angry' white woman or a violently abused 'calm' black man? when this is a mechanic that doesnt make sense, with the fucked up mind of the producers behind this, it wouldnt really be a big shock if it was the case. i also think its incredibly ableist in its methods, the old disabled man keeps yearning for his death and musing about humans being far inferior for their "fragile existence", and the game visibly intends for you to believe him "wise" for this, while i think it not only shows their ableist beliefs, it isnt necessarily an unbelievable character? a bitter, once abled bodied healthy and wealthy man suddenly deprived of some of his "liberty" would clearly become nihilistic once hes got just one of his priviledges stripped from him, imo

i also am appreciative of recreational work, if im being frank! derivative works are something i personally really really enjoy, since im pretty bad at inventing things from scratch? and ive seen fix its from people that basically take some of the monstrosities in the game and either recontextualise them or reframe them way better

in conclusion, im too biased to give you a good answer, so my middle of the road answer is always "enjoy things but with a critical mind and avoid giving money as much as possible" :/

#anonymous #dbh #anti detroit become human #i guess?#its negative #by the way thanks for saying i make good points ;; i try my best!!#obviously this is a tough discussion #idk if im a good person to address either since my family technically escaped the holocaust but not as jewish

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stormy-caffeine · 11 months

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Needed more space for my thoughts than replies allow and didn't wanna bog down the thread, this is related to my last reblog (about South Park being terrible and people shitting on its fans).

___________

I genuinely love watching South Park.

If I need something on in the background or just something to watch and turn my brain off to, I will always choose it.

Does that mean its any good? No.

Does it have good rep for minorities? No.

Does it have any good messages directly stated literally ever? No!

Some episodes are pure satire on modern society while others are just intentionally mean, either to a group or only one person, and I feel like both routes are pretty clearly done in each episode. It's fairly rare (though not impossible, obviously) to find an episode of SP in the recent seasons that isn't an identifiable satire on a situation or political climate or pop cultural /thing/ going on. Also rare to watch an episode and not understand exactly what they're making fun of: racists, homophobia, religion, politics, health fads, rich people, bad parenting, poor government oversight, failing education systems, the list goes on.

Keep in mind, even when they're making fun of something objectively bad, like racists and homophobes, they usually only have one (1) voice of reason MAXIMUM in the episode. If any, at all. The rest of the town, or some one-off characters, are usually going to perpetuate some terrible thing related to the plot that day. They may even make it look like the town agrees with the bad take, potentially even making it true for the rest of the series. Canonically, the entire town is extremely judgemental and xenophobic, there is literally no argument for them not being that way. It's shown multiple times.

The reason I don't mind any of this is because zero characters in South Park are inherently good, non-flawed people. Even the "good guys" in the show are very openly displayed as pieces of shit multiple times throughout the series.

Whether it's from the earlier seasons and all the kids are just snot-nosed kids who don't know any better or in the later seasons where the adults, who are supposed to be the good examples for them, make horrific and baffling decisions on how to handle even minor inconveniences in the town.

EVERY person in South Park is a flawed, usually downright terrible, human being. And. That. Is. The. Point.

If South Park wanted to be Family Guy and have "good" protagonists, they would keep all of the flaws in their main cast but back-fill each one of them with relatable and well-meaning traits also. They would be normal, classic, non-malicious but still very flawed and destructive people, just like in Family Guy and American Dad and every rip-off of them ever made. Some characters have that, sure, but sparingly. Most don't even get a single good quality about them, or if they do they somehow take it to such an extreme that it's almost worse than the bad qualities entirely.

They don't want to make a show with a great message every episode (despite also parodying that in some earlier seasons, when the kids acted more like kids), they wanted to make a comedy show that depicts the absolute worst, hell-spawned, unjustifiable, batshit insane town of people that still clearly represent everything wrong in our modern society.

Yes, they have racism directly in the show. They WANT you to see that it's racist and bad.

Yes, they have ableism directly in the show. They WANT you to see that it's ableist and bad.

Yes, they have "insert-literally-any-ism-you-can-think-of" in the show and very proudly display it for all to see and critique and shit on. Because they want you to see it and shit on it and know it's bad.

That is the intention of each and every minute of every episode.

Even in the episodes where it ends with a message that should be encouraging, "just be yourself" "treat others how you want to be treated" "despite our differences we're all the same inside" etc, it's usually undermined by the context being so warped and otherwordly that it basically can't be applied to a normal scenario anymore. The characters learned something but they and the town didn't improve as people or a collective. They are too flawed to ever be redeemed, because they are only ever going to be our worst aspects.

Again, does that make the show inherently good? Absolutely not! You can hate the show, you can get sick of its bad jokes and bad representation, you can wish it stopped airing by now and you can wish that it was never made in the first place.

But shitting on people who even passively enjoy the show is just not a good take. People like things for different reasons.

If someone loves South Park because they feel joy from seeing someone be a racist bigot, yes absolutely call out that person. But liking South Park at all is not a sign of this.

If someone loves South Park because even the worst jokes still point out how insane it is to think that day's -isms are justified somehow, in a lighter tone than we currently get while doom-scrolling, I see nothing wrong with that.

Every day for at least the last decade has seemed like a parade of terrible news and horrific people rising to power or enacting some terrible law/getting out of justice for violating the law. It's mind-numbing and terrifying to think about for extended periods. And sure, we can't avoid the bad shit going on, but at least digesting it in a lighter tone for a short time makes it more bearable while you're still thinking about it.

Aside from literally all of that... It's just a show. It's not trying to be something great and important, it's there to entertain people. LET people be entertained by it and give the people having to sit down and animate it a paycheck.

If you don't like it, just ignore it. Don't watch it. Don't follow people who watch it/post about it. Don't seek it out just to shit on it more. Just. Ignore it.

Even me, someone who likes the show, knows that inevitably it will have to stop being made at one point. There will be a last episode and no more channels/streaming services running it one day. Just wait it out and you'll have one less thing to be mad about.

In the meantime, let people who can find a spark of joy in the bleak void just... have it for a moment. It's not a big deal.

#storm.txt #storm.pers #storm.vibes #south park #sp #south park opinion #opinion

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