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t4tails · 1 month

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male characters can be "female-coded" for ambiguous suffering but god forbid you start actually headcanoning them as trans women

#og post #like to me if i was reading fiction like that this seems like the natural next step but curiously theyre almost always portrayed as cis men #white gender conforming cis het men.

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jalluzas-ferney · 1 month

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Cole wasnt “changed” to be gay. He never was STRAIGHT in the first place.

and hell- whi says he’s strictly gay now? Cole could like girls as well for all we know 🤷‍♀️ uk like, be a Bi king or smth.

The thing is, just like people are used to seeing characters from books as white as a default until stated otherwise, just because they’re so used to it, this happens with straightness as well.

People are will BEG and SWEAR that a character is straight just because they were never outright stated to be otherwise. And emphasis on “outright stated” because even when there is coding, hinting or just blatant portrayal of it, people will still deny that that certain character is queer because it’s not like they canonically turned to the camera and told the audience that “I AM NOT STRAIGHT.”

But to them, even if the character rarely showed any interest in the opposite gender or ever really talked ab their attraction, the character is just automatically straight. It’s just inherent. Of course they’re straight.

And you know what? Even if the character does, who said Bi people don’t exist? I have a lot of Bi friends and a family member that either are bi or are dating a bi person, and their attraction towards the opposite gender has never invalidated their attraction towards the same if gender non-conforming.

And even then, a lot of gay men or lesbians have struggled with comp-het in the past, reuniting them in having tried to date or even marry people from the opposite gender only to then realize they never truly were straight, and were just compulsively trying to conform or believe that they are straight because again, straightness has always been seen as the status quo. As the normal thing to be. The default.

And this isn’t me saying that “the writers were writing Cole as a dude with comp-het this whole time” or smth because I don’t know that. And while I could theorize that I don’t think the writers really were thinking about implementing compulsive heterosexuality into this silly Lego show.

But just like I can’t assure that Cole canonically has suffered from comp-het or that he is gay and not Bi or hell he could be asexual or smth while being gay WHO KNOWS-but just like we can’t exactly assure that he is exactly one of those labels, people cannot come here and act like Cole was ever REALLY canonically straight. Hell. You could even say None of the characters of the show are STRAIGHT because who said they were? You can def interpret them as straight! But why do people insist on acting as if portraying Cole as having a male character a romantic interest as them CHANGING him as if he really ever WAS straight?

No one acts that when a character is straight that it was a huge betrayal or smth because the character was “OBVIOUSLY” gay by default. No. People just see it as normal and move on because that has always been the status quo.

Because this is a heteronormative society as much as people try to act as if making a character gay is “appealing to the world and the general public” as if straight people are suddenly oppressed. Hetero friends of mine or my family will always automatically assume I’m straight because that’s the norm to them. People will always assume someone it het or cis unless outright stated otherwise.

And if you can’t tell what’s wrong with that…

…

And you know what? Get all pissed off about it. Complain. Make petition for “saving your boy Cole” (save him from what exactly? It’s not like Christianity exists in Ninjago so yall can scratch hell out of the list at least) the season was made. The character of Geo was made. The scenes where Geo fantasized about Cole being awesome and handsome were made. Scenes where Cole and geo talk about needing each other were made. Scenes where geo and Cole hold hands and look at each other all lovey dovey were made. None of that bigoted complaining is going to change that. Theyre not going back and deleting those scenes and they’re not suddenly gonna write Geo and Cole in completely different way from what they were written before. Womp. WOMP.

#ninjago #ninjago dragons rising #lego ninjago #savemyboycole #cole #ninjago cole #cole Ninjago #dragons rising #ninjago dr #gay rights #gay #comp-het #comphet #queer #queer representation #queer rep in media #geo Ninjago #Ninjago geo #geo

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tired-boy-discursed · 2 years

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The reason transandrophobia doesn't exist isnt bc trans men & transmascs dont face discrimination, it's just because misandry doesnt exist on a societal level. transmisogyny is specifically the intersection between transphobia and the sexism that women and fem aligned experience. men are not oppressed and do not experience sexism, which means transmisandry does not exist

Mkay so you're willingly uninformed?

Willingly ignorant even?

Here how about you check out @nothorses pinned post, or any of the posts on that blog about transandrophobia. The word transandrophobia is described in 2 different ways (hope you don't mind me @'ing you btw)

Now then, what are you calling the situation of people saying trans men do not deserve rights, hm? Is that "just transphobia" in your eyes?

You are ignoring trans masc voices in favor of what? The TERF boot you seem so fond of? You are only repeating their talking points as it is

And to correct your statement of "men are not oppressed" I think you mean to say "gender conforming cis het white men are (usually) not oppressed" as that seems to be the group you are actually referring to

#transandrophobia truther #transandrophobia discourse #transandrophobia #transandromisia #transmisandry #anon asks #discourse

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echofromtheabyss · 1 year

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In this article by the late Mel Baggs, Baggs references something another person wrote. The link is to something that was taken down, but the quote is here:

The basic idea is that each and every person has their difference, and that it should be respected. Note the singular form, however. When they learn of my autism, which is usually the first major difference to come up in conversation, they seem to think “oh, so that’s her difference”. They then proceed to fill in my difference slot in their mental table, and everything is as it should be.

Or, so they think.

Then, a little while later, I happen to mention some other thing that makes me very different from most other people, and their belief system collides head-on with reality. Usually, it’s another one of my disabilities that triggers it. This is when they almost invariably go “…” for a while, only to finish with “you have that too?” In other words, “your difference slot is already filled, and you can’t have another one”. This is the weird collision I've had with reality since I have been het-passing.

People used to just assume I was a lesbian. When I was 10, adults thought I was going to turn out to be a lesbian. It was just assumed. Then people assumed I was because of my body language, voice, facial expressions, way I hold my body, ffs, even the way I sit is discourse now. That I "passed as straight" is literally indistinguishable from stuff related to autistic masking discourse because of the degree to which it involves standing a certain way, holding my face a certain way, doing different things with my hands, talking about different things, re-wording everything I say into different wording, and using my voice differently. I even had to prefer different friends. Also there was different construction in the 80s and 90s among straight people about what it meant to be gay or lesbian so it was heavily conflated with being gender non-conforming or even trans-adjacent in ways it isn't now. When I'm "straight passing" I just don't really pass as "normal." But when I'm "queer passing," people just chalk all my differences up to that. As long as I'm not actually among cis queer women, that is. In the beginning, it gave me the wrong impression about how accepted I would be, as LGBT, by LGBT people - ones who are other cis women, almost always are uncomfortable around me. Straight women actually were more accepting of me, conditionally. TERFy lesbians were the absolute worst because I violate a lot of stuff about what women are supposed to be, and I have to mask the hardest around people who have very gendered ideas about how to act. There is no way to mask without being gender-conforming. And being *cognitively* gender non-conforming - i.e., having thinking patterns/emotional makeup/communication preferences more commonly stereotypically associated with men, heaven help you if it's anything in the realm of politics/likes/dislikes/hobbies - is totally brushed aside. You're just not supposed to be like that. Not even sure that upper middle class straight men are supposed to be like that these days. Except in my case, it's not even about anything really visible given that I like plenty of stereotypical feminine things! It's just this invisible mark I've had all my life, somehow, that characterizes me as "not a normal girl." The thing is, the world didn't get actually more friendly toward odd women, it just got more enforcing of normie upper class white female norms across a broader range of people. So a lot of the places that used to be my escape, no longer are that.

And when I am read as het... I feel VERY odd, I am crawling out of my skin in discomfort... like I am an alien from another planet who's passing as an Earthling. I feel both invisible to LGBT people (who, prior to my passing het, constituted the majority of my friends), while masking really hard among het normies (I am NEVER more aware of this, than when I'm on a double date, for example, with my partner and a het couple where the other woman is a much more normie woman) and trying to observe normie het social rules (greet the wife first, don't talk to the husband longer than I talk to the wife, etc) that passing as gay gave me a pass on. And in passing as het, PEOPLE DON'T EVEN TALK TO ME. I'm completely ignored in ways I never used to be. I completely disappear behind my partner. We'll be in a room full of his queer friends who just don't even see me, which is painful for very complicated reasons, but nobody else really sees me either. And to straight people who are okay with queer people, my perceived queerness filled that "difference slot." It gave me a place where I was allowed to be different from them. I feel more autistic since passing straight. I don't like it. And something I'm really, really struggling with in my identity is the fact that I lost the one social cope I had. The one thing that made me more tolerated in some spaces. Now I just feel naked. Like I'm just visibly Weird as a het-passing person in ways I wasn't as a queer-passing person.

And the thing is, passing queer gave me no payoff whatsoever in my actual romantic relationships, because I was a gaycel, it was never going to get better. Other women read something "odd" in me so quickly that it's not even funny, and I have to work Very Very Hard just to interact. But at least when I was passing gay, there's a point at which they just... let me be. I could be their Lesbian Friend.

I had a social role in which my weirdness could fit.

Now I just feel like a fake and a phony in every single interaction I have and like everything in my world revolves around my perceived sexual identity that I can't even really perform that well. My partnership is okay when it's just me and him but when I get out into the world, I don't even feel like I inhabit my own skin, and don't even know who I am.

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lesenbyan · 2 years

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honestly, hot take, but I do honestly think that if someone who is monogamous, cis, het, allo, and non kinky identifies with the queer label and community they should be allowed in the community, yanno? Because they're clearly seeing something in the community they want/need/feel and because of that they're automatically "other" from society's views on gender, sex, and romance. Maybe down the line they realize they aren't actually all those things, maybe they stay all those things all their life. But so long as they're not trying to talk over the experience of a type of oppression/marginalization they don't experience they're not doing any harm claiming the label, yanno?

Like the mold that western society (at least, don't know enough about others to say otherwise) has made is a very white and eurocentric mold so even monogamous cishet alloro&sexual non kinky people of color are still likely to feel othered by the system. Cis women of color that can't fit the standard of beauty set, that naturally trend more ""masculine"" but are straight, that identify with butch subculture despite not being wlw, aren't always going to feel like they fit and if they feel like queer fits them they should be allowed to use it. Same thing goes for naturally ""effeminate"" straight cis men esp in areas of high toxic masculinity. I'd rather soft men have a home with us than give in to the toxic system or feel alone their whole life.

Like, there are plenty of people who don't fit society's molds for reasons that aren't their romantic/sexual identity or gender. and often those kids grow up bullied for being "gay" or "lesbian" or whatnot even if they aren't. I would much rather accept them into our community with open arms then let them continue floundering until they fight for their own niche, conform, or die.

Queer means strange or odd. And while they might be cis, and alloromatic, and allosexual, and monogamous, and vanilla as they come doesn't mean society hasn't decided they, too, are strange and odd just like the rest of us. Even if they never claim any of our alphabet soup of identities, they should be allowed a safe space. The Queer Movement has always been backed by Black and Asian and Indigenous Empowerment communities after all. Lets give them a seat at our table.

#okay to rb;#brought to you by: literally nothing #the thought just came to me and I figured I'd make a post #and maybe pin it for Juna #I'm pro letting people id as queer with no reciepts or explanations #and if that means people who are cis and allo join our community bc they've been othered by society at large?#then good. they deserve a home somewhere. they deserve just as much comfort as us #so long as they're respectful that's all I'd ask- there are plenty of queers that aren't even that #i THINK that's all the typos now

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dadjokeslady · 1 year

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Gender isn't real in the same sense that money isn't real, which means, it's a social construct that nonetheless govern huge parts of our lives... The logic of "gender is a social construct therefore there ain't no gender identity based oppression" is insane.

sure there's gender "identity" based "oppression". its called violence against gnc people who dont conform to the gender assigned to their sex. gender identity isnt real but gender very much is. gender is 100% harmful same way money is 100% harmful. theres a reason the main axes of oppression are race and sex and everything else devolves from there 😑 like apologies (not really) for not being able to be brief because this topic deserves nuance

gender is just a subsection of sex based oppression (the incorrect stereotypes assigned to sex based off of sex). homophobia and lesbophobia both are terrible, the lgb community has been abandoned by society when they need it most, and the reason that they face this kind of inhuman treatment is because of the patriarchal and male supremacist belief that women are babymakers and to fuck a woman is the ultimate masculinity. proven by every male serial killer ever.

so a gay man loving men and not women threatens het men's masculinity and they attack ssa men for that reason: they think that the gay man is a man who betrayed malehood and maleness (obviously bullshit). its a subset of the patriarchy.

u could argue that sexual orientation is an axis of oppression itself bc het women can definitely be lesbophobic towards lesbians but the root of lesbophobia is sex based oppression. men hate that there are women who reject heteronormativity/men and live happy fulfilled lives with other women. if you understand that then you should understand that this works the same way as the root of gender being sex based oppression. so its not that you get discriminated based off of gender its that gender itself is a form of discrimination

I appreciate the nuance, and there's no need to apologize for expressing ideas in longer forms when you feel like it.

I'd agree with most of what you said, with the exception of gender identity not being real, but I'll put more words about it later on the post.

A nuance that is present in your ask but do not appear explicitly is that those axis are nor orthogonal to each other. We can express an axis of oppression that targets homosexual people, but this axis is at an angle with the axis of misogynistic oppression, you might find, if you search enough, some one who's 100% not misogynistic, but that nonetheless is a raging homophobe, but you'll also find that this expression is rare, because those axis are somewhat similar and in most cases can be described as one another. You can, to some extent, describe all of homophobia as derivations on misogyny, but it is prudent to point out those two axis as separated for political movements.

What this means is that, no woman will be totally free from misogyny, even if she's straight, in a society that still hates gay man.

That being said, there might be at play in your contributions the phenomena of universality, in the same way that man sees man as the default and non man as the aberrant, white people see white as the default and the rest as aberrant, there might be that you see cis as the normal and not cis as the aberrant. This type of universalization of an identity, identity in this case meaning the personalization of a demography, might blur your view to the existence of other identities.

Now, the point where we disagree, or at least I think the main point where we disagree, is the scope of gender. I'm assuming you'd define gender in function of biological sex, which is where I disagree and I haven't been provided any argument why the social construct of gender should be read a exclusive product of sex. I'll ask of you that you suspend that understanding for this moment, so you may understand the following argument.

In the same way that the gayness of a homosexual man is a negation of the power structure that put men above women, the transness of a trans woman is a negation of that power hierarchy. It do not mean that we, trans woman, didn't benefit from it, as it do not mean that the gay man did not benefit from it. Still, that negation is fought against by the hegemonic powers because it threatens the notion of immutability of the hierarchy.

That being said, I don't suppose you have the interest to listen to much longer posts pointing the reasoning for me to say that gender is more complicated and nuanced than the social aspects of sex, and the again, I don't know for sure what you do believe.

Lastly, I appreciate the politeness, and keep open for more questions if you so wish.

#dadjokeslady #trans #terfs #anon asks

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fatpinkbitch · 2 years

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I find a lot of the online queer discourse so weird?? Like my gf is a non-binary ace-spec lesbian and I'm non-binary grey ace/demisexual biromantic disaster, and my closest handful of friends are a mostly cis lesbian, a gay cis man, a gay non-binary person, a cis bisexual who leans more towards men and AMABs, and a cishet man.

I met my gf in secondary school, my oldest friend in primary school, three of these people through uni (none of them on my courses) and the cishet guy through tinder before I got with my gf.

Like 97% of my wider friend circle are some flavour of queer- we naturally seem to flock together and find each other. I've only once been part of a "queer friend group" at uni and they all ditched me and my cis gay friend and ended up being shitty to us because they were super exclusionary and all white, middle class, AFABs (my cis gay friend is a poc and I'm white but working class af). That group wanted to live in a self contained bubble and that's not really how the world works if you wanna be a functional adult.

I've gone off point a bit, but none of my friends are exclusionary- I'm the connecting dot between my friends but the reason they are my friends is because they're genuinely lovely kind people who don't care about labels and shit. Real life grown up queers acknowledge that we live in a predominantly cishet world, and we stick together and don't exclude each other for not being or not being cis, or for being bi, or on the acey side of queer. When I get my little ragtag bunch of people together for my birthdays we all get on and have a laugh and even though they don't know each other well they all get on and I can feel their love for me and our bonding over shared issues. They also all accepted my cishet guy friend, no questions asked. "He's Kat's friend, so he must be decent, so we're all gonna be nice to him" seems to be the general vibe and it's lovely.

Sorry if this is rambly and doesn't make much sense, but basically I find the discourse and exclusionism of online queer communities so weird because in real life its not like that- at the smaller gay clubs we all mix and mingle, in physical spaces we all unite over the fact that we are some flavour of queer, and if non queer people enter the space we're all respectful of each other. I know that's not always the case, but mostly we all just blend and come together, in my experience.

I get that for a lot of queers online communities are the only true safe spaces- if it wasn't for tumblr I'd probably still be convincing myself I was straight and cis! But don't push each other out. Unless someone is transphobic/homophobic/biphobic/acephobic/racist/ableist/generally shitty, allow them in. We all belong in the LGBTQIA community and infighting can be really harmful.

If you're not cis or het you belong, I promise. Stop shitting on bi people, on ace people, on trans/non-binary/gender non conforming people. The more divided we are the easier it is to turn against each other, when we should be supporting each other instead.

Also don't be too disheartened if that queer friend group turns out to suck- there are better people out there, I swear.

Also don't get too sucked into the discourse. It's important to develop your own opinions and critical thinking skills, and it can be too easy to fall into the vacuum of "all men are bad, all cis people suck, aces aren't really part of the community, bi people cheat/are fakers" and all those other shitty views designed to divide us. The real world is messy and complicated and yeah, some people suck, but not everyone does and if you can find your people you'll be okay! It might take time, you might lose and gain friends here and there, but you will get there!

Also, it's okay to change labels! I identified as grey ace/demisexual at first aged 20ish, then pansexual at 21ish, then finally bisexual at 22, and then eventually realised I was non-binary at 24! Now I know I'm a funky flavourful mix of these things, and that's okay!

I just wish I'd known all this stuff 10 years ago tbh. Maybe it wouldn't have taken me so long to figure out who I am, maybe it would have saved me a lot of heartache and anguish knowing that I can just call myself queer! (also the queer is a slur discourse is a whole other weird kettle of fish oh my goodness)

#Thanks for coming to my TED Ramble #Doesn't rly qualify as a TED talk due to the lack of structure the meandering lack of clear points and tone lmaoo #Stop arguing online and go outside!!! Try to meet irl queers if u are able to!!! (if it is safe to and you feel ready!!)#Not gonna tag as discourse or anything because i don't want people trying to fight me #This is just my experiences as a 27yr old queer in the uk and i know it can be very different for everyone #I am still learning and unlearning and growing every day #My experiences are not universal and that's okay no one's are #Terfs can stay the fuck away from me amd #And so can aphobes and biphobes

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lnkedmyheart · 2 years

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You know, whenever I see LGBT folk in particular shit on portrayals of gay MEN as being flamboyant, makeup loving, dramatic and campy and yes even feminine I find it reeking of internalized homophobia. Like pal, buddy, friend, there are literally gay men who live like that, stop trying to act like gay men have to fit your version of what is a gay man because YOU have a chip on your shoulder. No matter how justified your opinion on flamboyant gay stereotypes is, you don't get to shit on flamboyant gay men and the portrayal of those men because they fucking exist and do not deserve to be made to feel ashamed for their lifestyle. And yes, even flamboyant straight men with feminine mannerisms don't deserve to be shat on for their choices or personalities by neither cis het men, nor by LGBT folk. The exact same goes for lesbians who shit on the idea of masculine lesbians.

Because you people sit there screaming about the right to be who you are and then turn around and try to police other people into conforming to your set of labels and your fixed idea of x or y or z identity. I'm sorry pal, we queer folk don't work that way. You may have 10 seperate labels you fit perfectly down to the decimal point, most of us don't.

Perhaps we are the bad eggs to you, perhaps we are the people who you feel are the reason why your life is hard, perhaps. But then you guys turn right around and DEMAND that actors and celebs and writers and researchers come out before having an opinion and thought on anything LGBT. You see a person who is flamboyant or wrote something about queer experience and you presume that since they didn't write their sexuality and gender identity on the back cover in big bold red letters that they are a straight cis person trying to get clout by pretending to be queer. The sheer number of times I have seen people try and negate us by presuming and claiming that certain opinions are only held by cis het white rich people is so nasty like yes you are doing such excellent work in your skewed activism by assuming that's what someone is. "Don't just assume someone is gay" Bitch then don't run around assuming that someone is straight or cis or white or privileged either.

#internalized homophobia

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janiedean · 3 years

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Antis are in the r*dfem cult too and it's sad how almost half of an entire generation of young queer people got recruited into that

I mean... the problem is that they infiltrated a lot of spaces when they should have been shut off since the beginning and I really just hope people wake up to how toxic and generally shit they are at some point never mind that they're nowhere near progressive, but the fact that it happened is bad and the thing is that... basically anti-ism and terfism have an entire list of shit in common starting with wanting people to conform to whatever they think is the correct way of thinking, being antikink, being anti sexwork, othering anyone who tells them they're wrong, discouraging critical thinking and mostly wanting to police what people are allowed to like or not, and like that's why all those dumbass posts that were around ages ago like 'ah op was a terf so I'm cp-ing from them so that they don't get traffic' were like the most fucking stupid thing in existence

because like sorry if I go into a rant here but point is: you can't steal stuff from a terf and presume to repost it as an opinion you share because guess what you're still sharing a rdfem opinion which is most likely not harmless - what is going to cp posts from terfs saying all men are a scum of the earth going to accomplish? it's a shit rdfem opinion that you should criticize because it comes from that side of the fence, and it's not like you can say 'ah I disagree with rdfems about trans women/trans people/being gender critical but they're right on everything else' because just that means that automatically they're cutting out of the list of ppl they care of everyone that's not a rich cis(het) mostly white woman and I put (het) in the brackets because then they preach political lesbianism and go around saying wanting to be with men is being brainwashed by the patriarchy and like... that's not a thing you can pick and choose. it's shit thinking. it's like that time I argued with one who said that going back to separate gender schools would be super feminist bc apparently girls performed better in a same gender environment and boys performed worse so it would bridge the gap in society and like

that just shows you don't know how a sexist society works bc if society is sexist it doesn't matter if a woman is more competent than a man I mean didn't the 2016 us election teach ppl anything

separated genders schools means that you don't interact with ppl of the opposite gender your age regularly every day until you're 18 and like... not to be that person but if you don't have friends of the opposite gender then how are you gonna interact with the opposite gender when you're in university? like... all these people say men should be more understanding of women but how can they if they don't talk to any that are not related to them?

where do you send trans ppl in this scenario?

what about lgbt people in general surrounded by possibly homophobic/transphobic classmates?

also those schools tend to be private in general so what if someone can't afford it?

like basically such a thing only favors (in theory) girls who are well-off, not lgbt and I dare say not non-good looking bc I can swear an all-girls school if you don't conform to whatever's the ideal is not the place you wanna spend thirteen years of your life, but hey that's feminist! because we said so! and it sounded good! yeah no, it's not feminist it's like dumbass 50s rhetoric dressed to sound feminist and it's the same for all terf crap - like you can scream that you don't like surrogacy how much you want and it's a thing that should be discussed/regulated, but someone telling me surrogacy is a travesty bc 'motherhood is a fundamental part of femininity' which is what terfs say about it means implying that if you're not a mother you're not a full woman and that if you want to be a surrogate you shouldn't which in one go negates body autonomy (bc surrogacy is also that if someone chooses to do it out of their own free will) and says that any woman who can't have children or doesn't want to isn't a whole woman, which... they might think it's a clever way to say trans women aren't women, except it cuts off each single cis woman who's sterile, every single cis woman who like doesn't want to have kids and on top of that sounds like victorian age bullshit bc what the fuck we spend the entire 20th century making the point that having children was a choice and a woman wasn't useless if she didn't have any and in 2021 we're sprouting this? like fuck that, and let's not even go into the antikink stuff because saying that if you like something in bed then the patriarchy influenced you OR it means you're not okay or whatever then it turns into whatever crap antis say about ppl being sick in the head for writing kink which is like not anything that makes any sense whatsoever and guess what you get sucked in like that and then you turn into the kind of idiot who agrees with trump/the american right wingers that you should have guards at public bathrooms to make sure trans ppl don't access the one of their gender and like.... sure, as a woman I feel so much more threatened by a trans woman using the stall next to me than by idk a guard feeling me up to make sure I'm a cis woman before I can use the bathroom, suuureeee /sarcasm

tldr: terfism is backwards right wing ideology dressed up as feminism and that people fell for it like this is a disgrace but I'm nowhere near suprised that terfs ended up recruiting antis or that antis ended up being terfs, bc it's the same kind of bullshit thinking and if you don't wonder why you're sharing the ideas of someone whose ideas you technically loathe then good luck not getting sucked in into cults like that :/

#anonymous #ask post #terf alert #terf talking cw #feminism for ts #lgbt for ts #eh

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itonje · 3 years

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its. eh not rlly funny just curious i guess when i see ppl on here ragging on transmascs or whatever for saying that they want to look like. yr average cis white man and like. yeah i can kind of get the absurdity of saying that the peak of gendered presentation to oneself is a cis(n het) gender conforming white guy but like at the same time. can nobody fathom any reason why trans men would want to look like uh. just regular dudes

#finny.txt #like. yeah you could say its absurd. i think envy is an absurd emotion and you get envious over absurd things #like yeah im a tad jealous of white cis boys sometimes based on looks or whatever which is shallow of me #and of course that isnt their fault theyre probably not having the best time of it either but like. you know #so i have sympathy for whoever wants to look like. yr average regular old cis guy like. its fine. people just feel that way

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courtneyslullabye · 4 years

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“Masculinity crisis“, or the excuse behind the misogynistic lyricism of men in emo music.

DE BOISE, SAM. “Cheer up Emo Kid: Rethinking the 'Crisis of Masculinity' in Emo.” Popular Music, vol. 33, no. 2, 2014, pp. 225–242., www.jstor.org/stable/24736806.

What was being advocated as a new-found open-mindedness from this male-dominated genre, from the early 80s to the early 2000s, is actually not that at all.

“Emo“ comes from “Emotional hardcore punk“, and has been considered a pejorative term for quite some time now, due to the fact that using “emo“ to describe a man goes against the patriarchal ideal of the dominant and superior male.

It is, as the author said, a sort of indication of a shift in the gendered power dynamics. To put it simply, men take on the role of the emotional party in the relationship — or lack thereof — , and women are antagonised for acting freely and pushing aside sentimental bounds to focus on one-timed enjoyment (see here: like men).

One would think this shift in dynamics would serve as a way to criticise the patriarchy and its institutionalised gender roles that created emotionally unavailable men, and forced women to fall into submission. However, looking deeper into the movement, we can see none of this, and more of a movement that resolves around bashing women for acting like men and not returning the feelings of the artists that expressed their love freely.

This should come off as surprising, seeing as the Emo Hardcore Punk scene is actually a subculture of the Punk scene, and that said movement is all for gender equality.

This is where the misogyny comes in.

At a time when women were getting economically and socially independent, and therefore did not need to rely on men as much as society had dictated it, they had started detaching themselves from the submissive women stereotype. And thus, came the situation of women being bashed for acting like men, instead of the patriarchy.

(Male) Artists whose relational status seemed to be threatened by this new-found liberty did not think twice before blaming women instead of their inability to introspect. It is not hard to find descriptions of imminent physical threats, if not death threats, towards the targets of their “affection“ (more of an obsession if we are being honest).

This way, male emo artists went from the “alpha male“ to the “beta male“ narrative. Their power thus resided in their abilities to shift the blame by showing themselves as non-conforming, against society, weaker, etc. in a way that will serve their misogynistic and manipulative agenda. And while they liked to put themselves away from the narrative of the dominant and gender-conforming male, the way they pushed puritan ideals on women to judge their values was not so different from conforming to gendered stereotypes.

To conclude this, Emo does not mean nice, or open-minded. The focus on emotional turmoil and pain came from a place of manipulation, and seeing this shift in gender dynamics as a good thing is highly dangerous for women and problematic of the industry.

Emo comes from, for a lack of better words to express this, an industry where cis-het white middle-class men use their privilege to be seen as progressive and attract a bigger audience of emotionally unavailable men with unrequited love who feel like women owe them, and, I daresay although I hate the term, pick-me girls.

It makes me wonder if the industry has ever been favorable to women, or even sincerely TRIED to be, seeing as nobody has ever moved a toe to defend them, us. We can still find misogynist microaggressions in today’s music, even if it is not emocore, and it is disheartening.

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catlesboy · 4 years

Note

Shitting on cis or straight people does no harm at all, much like making jokes about white people. I'm considering asking you not to interact with my blog because that's just ridiculous.

Idk how to tell you this but I used to cry and berate myself for being attracted to men back when I thought I was a cis girl because it made me a “”nasty straightie.”” It made finding out my sexuality immensely difficult because I couldn’t tell if I really liked girls or just desperately didn’t want to be straight.

Not all cishets conform to cisheteronormativity and shitting on cishets for being cishet is nasty. People deserve to have safe spaces to explore their identity and find support. GNC cishets navigate relationships and society differently from typical cishets and deserve support. Some GNC people may identify as nonbinary, and some may identify as cis. How they choose to identify themselves doesn’t negate their experiences and deserve for support. I will never change my opinion on this. Don’t interact with me either lol

Anyway! GNC cishets? Genderqueer cishets? Intersex cishets? Questioning cishets? Cishets who present differently from their AGAB? Masculine cishet women and feminine cishet men? Androgynous cishets? Cishets who face misdirected homo/transphobia? Any cishets harmed by cisheteronormativity? I fucking love and support you. Don’t let people like this bring you down. Your identity doesn’t negate your experiences and you are worthy of support and community. If you don’t fit into cisheteronormative society, you are valid and part of this community. Never feel pressured to identify as something you’re not. Using cishet to mean non-LGBTQ+ is bad and I hope someday people realize that.

You aren’t oppressed for being cishet, but you are oppressed for not conforming to cisheteronormativity, and you deserve to talk about your experiences and have a supportive community just as much as anyone else. Your cis and/or het identity makes your oppression unique and you have the right to talk about it. Your identity doesn’t negate your experiences. Never forget that. If your attraction, gender identity, sexual identity, or gender expression doesn’t fit into cisheteronormativity, you’re allowed in this community, and that’s my final input. No discourse. Being GNC and being nonbinary, while two different things, share many similarities and you have my full support.

#feel free to unfollow if you have a problem with this #it's something i'm passionate about and my stance will not change #ask #anon hate #long post #discourse #qw #neg #not pride

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soulvomit · 4 years

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I feel like identifying as non-binary would totally be impossible with how my life is set up. I do business with fairly square people in my own age group and older. I'm in a heterosexual-presenting relationship with a heterosexually identified man.

In the social group I'm adjacent to that's accepting of and encouraging of non-binary identity, I'm "othered" for other reasons (being Jewish, being over 35, and actually not being geeky/fannish enough.) And I'm not androgynous the "right" way (the young, skinny, Manic Pixie Dream Person art student way) for them.

I don't know, sometimes, where I fit.

It might have been different 20 years ago when I was mostly among LGBTQ people, except *then* I wondered if I was trans (possibly because this conversation was just not happening yet).

Even then, I wasn't gender non-conforming in the *right* ways. I wasn't a butch lesbian with a nonetheless homosocial social setup, who prioritized women in every part of my life. I was a snarky bisexual computer nerd who had mostly male friends and liked lots of "guy" media. I felt pressure to identify as lesbian from my 20s, believe it or not, mostly for the sake of the comfort of women - especially my male friends' spouses and partners - but also because of the "sibling" dynamic I had with *men* and not wanting to give that up in order to date them.

One reason I didn't date much is because it was a confusing mess and being in *any* relationships, fucked with my sense of identity and self, even though I've no desire to change my body or dress like a man. I dated a lot of guys in my teens but had fucked up dynamics with them, because I wasn't the kind of woman they were expected to be with by their entire social world. Whenever a guy liked me, he also expected to change me. It was just constantly humiliating and debasing and I got sick of it and preferred a sibling dynamic with men. But then I discovered that I wasn't womaning right for lesbian and even bi women, either. Whenever anyone did like me it so often conflicted with their assumptions about themselves and their sexual orientation and *that* got old quickly.

For a long time, my gender was my job, as long as I picked the right job. I couldn't do front-facing service jobs without being nitpicked to death about gender conformity stuff and I wish people understood that this is not about how one wears their hair. It's about stuff like facial expressions, body movements, how one speaks, etc, and when you're a woman who isn't gender conforming then you risk being seen as uncooperative/unlikable. My voice was nitpicked to death. It's a reason I thought I had Asperger's for a long time.

What helped was discovering that I got on better in environments where women are allowed to have a "serious" persona. Computers in the 90s, were a great environment. But a big reason I couldn't go back in, is because of the MPDG persona being so compulsory among women geeks/nerds now in ways that it wasnt in the 90s, and it being reeeeeally amplified in nerdy/geeky environments. The one environment I was accepted in, I now feel chased out of. I feel like I'm supposed to have a bright hair color, giggle a lot, talk like I've been sucking helium, and bounce around like I drank 4 Rockstar drinks. (Has anyone considered that this is ageist, btw, and an ageist performance that's required of lots of LGBTQ people and women in some environments, but *not* cis men, *ever?* In every environment I've been in where this is expected, cis men got to just be reserved dudes in polo shirts. There is NO unmarked manner of presentation for any other group. Maybe I'll even venture as far as to say cis het men.)

Another great environment was health because tbh I experience much less of the skin crawling in very ethnically and socially diverse spaces, less being held to one specific (white, upper middle class) behavioral standard. The women I did work with in those spaces? Super down to earth, we got along great! I could be a totally serious person. The requirements for being seen as nice and likable as a woman in health care are different from the requirements in customer service. Also: SCRUBS AND UNIFORMS. Some women wear hypergendered scrubs, but I could wear black, tan, or blue and it wasn't a big deal because plenty of women wore those, too. It was the only space where there was actually a gender neutral standard of any kind.

I'm in art now and it's a *major* cause of absolute skin crawling discomfort, because male artists can look like anything but there's a *very* gendered performance that's popular with female artists - the young manic pixie dream girl with a high voice.

And I have to market *myself* which is filling me with absolute dread.

I want to disappear from the world, I can't just be in the world as myself as any kind of public figure (and I can't just be in the world as myself anymore, anyway, because of the social space I now move in. At least business clothes and business spaces give me a way to make my private self private, because of weird social rules around people in business dress and business spaces. A businessperson or professional is allowed to be impersonal and have a closely guarded private self, to a much greater degree.)

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butchspace · 6 years

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on he/him lesbians (and gnc women in general)

I'm not gonna take asks about this anymore. If you send them in, I'm just gonna delete them (or maybe link to this) because there's more than enough on my blog and on Tumblr in general to explain this to anyone who's willing to learn. If you need some posts on this, I started a tag for it. Also check out the posts I link down at the end of this.

I don't want to jump down anyone's throat about this or make anyone feel bad, but I'm gonna take ~ one paragraph to vent. I get why it might be hard to understand something you've never seen, heard of, and/or experienced. The honest asks that just want to know more aren't that bad. The people who want to understand so they can support us or just to learn about us are ok.

TW for:

(mostly brief) discussions of transphobia, lesbophobia, and misogyny

mentions of racism

I don't like how many asks I see asking why some lesbians use he/him. It sometimes feels like my identity is being questioned. And a lot of them accuse us of being transphobes or of diluting the meaning of language. (All of these anons assume all GNC lesbians are cis and no trans or nonbinary person has ever preferred any pronouns but the ones directly associated with their gender, which is...incorrect.) They come into our inboxes and ask GNC lesbians to lay out every piece of evidence for why they should be allowed to exist, and then twist those words around and make us into villains.

When I say pronouns don't equal gender, I don't mean they're not related or connected. That's actually the precise reason why someone might want to express their gender non-conformity through pronouns. Pronouns are associated with gender, but they are not the absolute & ultimate gender decider. People don't identify as a man because they prefer he/him. It’s usually the other way around. Most people use the pronouns that are directly associated with their gender because of how they identify. A nonbinary person might prefer they/them because those pronouns are gender neutral and affirming. A trans man might prefer he/him because those pronouns are traditionally thought of as male and are affirming. But a nonbinary person is not obligated to use they/them and a trans man is not obligated to use he/him. A cis man is not obligated to use he/him either. People choose their pronouns based on what they are comfortable with. What they are comfortable with is often directly influenced by their gender, but not always. Some people use pronouns that align more with their gender non-conformity or gender presentation. No one is obligated to go by any pronouns they don’t want to.

Misogyny and homophobia intersect and fuck with the lives and identities of LBP women. It makes it weird, hard, and confusing to be women. LBP women of color and trans women experience even more intersections that affect their relationship to womanhood. The only acceptable womanhood (1) is to be a straight, white, cis, able-bodied, thin, gender conforming, etc. woman. Most women are going to have a somewhat complicated relationship to gender. But for any woman who is not everything on this list, it's going to be even harder to navigate. So we do it in different ways. For some women, going by he/him pronouns is one of those ways. Some women present in an untraditional way. Sometimes, they prefer to subvert traditional femininity.

And using he/him isn’t necessarily about a disconnection from womanhood. There are women who are very firmly connected to womanhood who use he/him. It’s about a disconnect from femininity or from gender conformity. But ultimately it’s about experiencing womanhood differently.

And honestly, how does being "masculine" or using """"male"""" pronouns automatically, despite this person identifying as a woman, turn someone into a man. (2) I think any theories about gender identity that discount someone's internal idea of their gender are bad and often have transphobic or misogynist implications.

The bottom line is women (and everyone really) are allowed to express their gender however they want (3 & 4). The fact that there isn't nearly as much backlash about lesbians who use they/them (although there certainly is some) is really telling. People want lesbians to fit into some gender box and never branch out. They especially want lesbians to never ever do anything even remotely associated with men, because this threatens gender roles. But we will never fit into gender boxes. Those gender boxes inherently exclude us. Society wants this of all women, and those boxes are rarely meant for otherwise marginalized women. (5) They are created by misogyny, and heavily informed by homophobia, transphobia, and racism.

And, just to reiterate, men cannot be lesbians. That is no way what I’m saying here and if you thought so you didn’t read the post very well.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

Notes:

(1) in some way, there is no acceptable womanhood because of misogyny (see note 5)

(2) a post about why I don't like calling butches in general words associated with men, hence the scare quotes

(3) Do what you want but don't use culture-specific identities that you don't have claim to, don't you slurs you can't reclaim, etc.

(4) a post about gender identity and presentation that goes into more detail about my do what you want philosophy

(5) this is not to say cis het white women always fit into their gender boxes very neatly either. Misogyny affects all women, it just affects LGBT women and women of color in unique ways.