#zombizou salt

[abittersweetraisin]

Whenever i talk in favor of Chloé there have always been people telling me how she did nothing to deserve the miraculous, that she doesn't deserve a redemption, that she never showed any signs of wanting to be better. I don't agree and in this post i go in detail on why.

Since day one they've written her as a horrible person and I've never denied that. But i do say that there have been more than just signs of her being written as someone who could be better. I'm just not being blinded by hate. Let's recap some episodes... I'll try to be as brief as possible.

-Despair bear. How many of us know someone stinking rich? Maybe just from the distance? Do you really think that rich people allows their employees to talk to them the way Chloe's butler talked to her in that episode? Sure, when Chloé felt humiliated she yelled at him, but that doesn't take away that she had allowed him to get emotionally close to her. He knew her, what she had lived and how she felt. And she listened to him.

People say that her effort in this episode doesn't count because she only did it because it was convenient for her. She cared about Adrien. Even then it shows good in her. She cared about him. Adrien. Not his money, not his position, not his fame. This goes against what the writers forced on her later on season 3 finale when they said she only loved herself. - Zombizou. Oh, i love this one. People saying that she only apologized to Miss Bustier because of Chat Noir and Ladybug were there. Apologized only so she could get her miraculous again. Look at her facial expressions:

She even felt self conscious when she noticed Ladybug and Chat Noir watching them. And that wasn't an act. The character's acting is supervised by the show's director. Look how the show portrays when someone is lying, here is Lila in Protection:

And it's more than just the visuals. Go watch the episodes, listen to the music. Chloé apology do was sincere. I've also been asked "Then why didn't she apologize to Marinette?" Well, a truly shoehorned redemption arc would had her changing just like that, from one moment to the next. It feels more natural if it happens little by little, step by step.

-Malediktator. Last week i showed a video of Marinette choosing to trust Chloé with her miraculous. Let's now take a look at this scene:

Again, look at her facial expressions. She dreamed of being a hero along side Ladybug. She was so into the moment that she almost slammed against the chimney. She admired Ladybug. She wanted to be her. That was shown since season 1:

Again, more than once i've been told she only wanted the spotlight and Queen Wasp is brought as the source for that. Have we forgotten the Queen Wasp episode or are we choosing not to see what happened back then? Audrey couldn't even remember her daughter's name. She was praising Marinette, offering her the opportunity of a life time. Offering to take her to New York with her, when she hadn't even taken her own daughter with her. May the first stone be cast by whoever wouldn't truly feel jealous and hurt by something like that. Chloé had tears in her eyes. Audrey said the only exceptional thing about Chloé was being her daughter. Chloé replied (and i quote): "I'll show you how exceptional i can be!". It was then that she transformed into Queen Bee for the first time and it was after that that she did the thing where she put the train in danger so she could be the hero to save everyone. Wrong, yes. But again, this was a character that was just beginning a redemption journey. She didn't want fame, she was looking for her mother's love.

-Miraculer. Come on... How can people say she didn't try to be better? She was being offered power and she rejected that.

Yes, later she embraced the akumas, but till before season three's finale she had been written differently. That was a character that could truly become a good person. That didn't happen not because she didn't have the potential, but because the writers didn't allow that to happen. Let's not forget she's a fictional character. I mean, in Lilo and Stitch. Stich was genetically designed to want to destroy everything and even for a character like him there was redemption. It comes down to whether the writers want to write that path for a character or not.

Then Mayura tried again, she offered her the chance to retain the bee miraculous. If Chloé had truly only wanted the spotlight she could had accepted the offer. She wanted to be a hero and this time not to impress her mother. Not because she wanted the attention from the media. Come on, she's super rich. If she only wanted to be famous she could have easily made that happen. This scene was a huge mistake from the writers and they tried to patch it up with Miracle Queen episode:

They knew they were going to keep handing the same miraculous to same people. Alya has been even trusted with the Ladybug miraculous twice! So, of course they had to write the Miracle Queen episode to say "Look, she's bad, she can't be trusted." I don't know how much of the fandom didn't like that, so what did they do: "Chloé hate campaign" all along season 4. And now what they're giving us for season 5. And all this,... Why? For what? To represent people who will never change? That's an excuse and season 2 and most of season 3 are proof of that.

If after this recap you still think that she was never written trying to be better,... I'm sorry, but it would be that you don't want to see it, not that it wasn't there.

#chloe bourgeois #chloe sugar #mlb analysis #mlb malediktator #mlb zombizou #mlb queen wasp #mlb despair bear #mlb salt

[weirdgirl92]

Dear Mr. Astruc,

You can call Chloe irredeemable and a lost cause all you want, but this moment will forever stay in my head rent free.

#rewatched more of seasons 1 and 2 last week #and I just couldn’t stop thinking about this scene from zombizou #miss boustier should’ve adopted chloe by the end of season 2 #fuck andre and audrey #this episode still happened so it’s technically canon #miraculous ladybug #chloe bourgeois #thomas astruc salt

[mcheang]

You reap what you sow

Marinette may have agreed to forgive Chloe but when Bustier’s birthday arrives next year, Alya is surprised when Marinette says she is giving her one of her family’s cakes on display. Usually her gifts are more designer-themed. The only effort Marinette is putting in this time is icing the words “Happy Birthday”.

Marinette: yeah, but on the chance that either Chloe or Lila ruins it, at least I didn’t waste any effort over it.

Alya realizes how hurt Marinette must still be over how her hard work had all been for nothing. Bustier didn’t care.

It made Alya rethink her birthday plans, and soon word spread throughout their class.

When the day came, Caline was as delighted as ever with her presents.

Marinette gave her a delicious cake which everyone shared.

Alya and Nino gave her a slightly messy homemade (cheap) photo frame they made with their siblings (it entertained the kids at the same time. 2 birds, one stone)

Kitty Section gave her their music CD. It cost them nothing. They have like a dozen of these. Though Rose pasted pretty stickers all over the case.

Lila gave her a cheap scarf she claimed to have gotten somewhere overseas.

Mylène gave her plant seeds (and this helps her cause for saving the earth in a small way)

Max gave her one of his thumb drives. What? It was practical, and he had so many.

Kim and Alix bought a gift shop teacher trophy together and split the cost.

Chloe dumped a brooch she didn’t want anymore as it was out of fashion.

Sabrina gave her a notebook. Also practical.

Caline was so touched that she did not notice that the amount of her gifts had decreased in quantity and quality.

#miraculous ladybug fanfic #miraculous ladybug fic #ml fanfic #ml fanfiction #ml fic #miraculous ladybug fanfiction #post Zombizou #bustier salt #ml salt fic

[nixthelapin]

Anyone else deeply disturbed that at middle school teacher in a kids show was named after a type of underwear? A type of underwear known to enhance the bust I might add

(Mme Caline Bustier)

A bustier:

…yikes

#I hope this doesn’t get flagged by the algorithm gods #but how did anyone on the production team think this was appropriate?? #we get it she’s attractive #but maybe don’t give characters names based on them being sexy guys #it’s a show for little kids #idk maybe I’m overreacting? #it’s basically a corset #but I think even that name would be very weird #and its emphasis is literally on the bust #miraculous #mlb #miraculous ladybug #caline bustier #madame bustier #zombizou #ml salt #ml critical #ml criticism

[into-the-miracleverse]

Canon Logan’s Relations with OCs on the Fandom:

Warning: This isn't salt directed at any of the characters. Logan is just too angsty, sassy, salty and b*tchy.

@natedogx15

Nate: Dude, don’t you think you could try to be less… you know… sassy?

Logan: Look who is talking, Mr. “Let’s Sass at the Akuma’s Face”.

Nate: At least I don’t go as far as you do.

Logan: When have I went too far?

Nate: Well, Riposte, Volpina, Zombizou, Dark Owl, Glaciator… do I need to continue?

Logan: …

____________________________________________________________

@artzychic27

Logan: If I paid you to make edit-videos of Spellboy, would you?

Simon: Depends on the money… why, though?

Logan: There is barely none of him on the internet. And he deserves more recognition.

Simon: Maybe, if he wasn’t that bitter, he would be a bit more beloved.

Logan: He isn’t bitter! He just needs to be the one in charge of the team and keep things under control. He is just really efficient.

Simon: I think you mean uncharismatic…

Logan, whispering: Oh, I am so breaking your tablet later…

____________________________________________________________

@artzychic27

Lacey: Okay, Akuma Class… be prepared, cause we are going to win this game and… why is Logan on the bench.

Logan:… I don’t do sports. But, you all can have fun…

Lacey: EVERYONE needs to participate.

Logan: Look, I am sorry, post-growth spurt Tinkerbell, but no one is forcing me to play this game.

Lacey: Oh, really… Denise, can you give me a hand on this matter?

Denise: Of course, Lace!

20 minutes later…

Alya: Come on, Logan, just give up already!

Logan, holding the bench tight, while trying to get free from Lacey and Denise: Never!

Nino: Dude, Denise will break your leg if you don’t let it go, already.

____________________________________________________________

@artzychic27

Aurore: Come on, Logan, can you try to keep your fuse under control.

Logan: Says the girl who got mad for losing a Weather Girl contest.

Aurore: Excuse me!

Logan: And you lost to a girl who has never spoken in public before.

Mireille: …

Logan: See?!

Mireille: It’s just that you were never worthy to talk to…

____________________________________________________________

@artzychic27 and @nerd-chocolate

Logan: Why did you two tied me to this chair?

Reshma: We just wanted to give you a makeover. You desperately needs a new outfit.

Cosette: And your eyebags need to be fixed…

Logan: … I think I just understood how the after-life punishment feels like.

Ismael, recording everything: This is going to be priceless.

Jean: Definetely.

____________________________________________________________

Zoe: My life sucks, my sister and mother mistreat me, but… they are my family, so, I have to love them.

Logan: No, no, no. You don’t.

Zoe: What?

Logan: If they don’t treat you right, you are not forced to love them.

Zoe:…

Logan: Girl, you are talented, you have friends that care for you and more. You don’t need to treat Chloe with love, and you definitely doesn’t owe that b*tch Audrey anything.

Zoe: …

Logan: Look, I can be your friend, and, I promise you, I will help you learn how to show them your middle finger.

____________________________________________________________

Marc: Uhm, Nath? What is he doing?

Nathaniel: Oh, Logan really likes seeing the process of creating stories.

Marc: Can’t he watch from… a bit a far?

Logan: No.

____________________________________________________________

@stormiclown

Stephan: I have to admit. You kind of do a good job keeping this school under control.

Logan: Thank you.

Stephan: But you could do more, to be honest.

Logan: Don’t even try. You alright went too far. I won’t let you cross the last lines.

Stephan: You are not as powerful as you think.

Logan: Oh, believe me, I am. And if you don’t want problems, it’s best if you leave this school.

Stephan: You don’t scare me.

____________________________________________________________

Next time, we will be seeing some Logan and batfam members interactions. Logan would be their biggest headaches in Maribat fics.

#miraculous aus #miraculous #miraculous oc

[princess-of-the-corner]

So, I've got a friend who shan't be named, who I've accidentally, through osmosis, infected with a hyperfixation on MLB.

But he also knows How shit the writing in Canon is, so he sent me to ask you which episodes to watch that ARE important to know to have a baseline idea on the characters since he does want to pay some respect to the og show and not accidentally Salt the characters.

[TL;DR. Friend wants to watch MLB but is afraid of the shit writing, which episodes would you reccomend? Also, he watched the movie If that helps.]

OH BOY

Hm. I think the main problem with this is that some of the best writing and worst writing is at the same time lmao. Doubly so when it comes to later seasons and Plot.

Okay let's take a moment to go through the episodes. Might break this into seasons.

Since you said they've absorbed by osmosis, I'm not going to make my reasonings spoiler-free.

Season 1:

You know what? I'm actually going to say 'watch all of Season 1'. It has its flaws for sure, but Season 1 is still legitimately good to me. All the episodes are kind of important because they set up the various characters.

Season 2:

The Collector - Establishes Gabriel = Hawkmoth. Interactions with Fu and getting more Lore.

Despair Bear - Sets up the beginnings of Chloé's redemption and why she's Like That™

Riposte - Kagami's introduction!

Dark Owl - This is 87% for the scene of them in the box. The absolute TENSION of of that scene is fucking BEAUTIFUL I love it so much you have no idea. Also brings in Damocles as 'The Owl'.

Glaciator - I'd put this one as a 'maybe' because mostly it's just for the introduction of the Ice Cream Man so you know what's happening later when he shows up.

Sapotis - First dual-Akuma, and also the first debut of Rena Rouge!

Gorizilla - Gabriel suspecting Adrien of being Chat plot! Also more lore tidbits regarding Emilie, as we see her in the movie 'Solitude'.

Captain Hardrock - Introduces Luka and Anarka! Also I just love this Akuma.

Zombizou - partly because zombie apocalypse can be fun and it hits all the tropes. But this establishes stuff for Chloé's redemption arc. Both in a 'why she's Like That™', showing the idea that someone can change, and also her actually being helpful to Ladybug and apologizing for the trouble she caused afterward.

Anansi - I love Nora, and this is the debut for Carapace!

Sandboy - Some good nightmare fuel, and lore on the Kwami

Reverser - Intro for Marc! Technically not important in the long run but I love them.

The Queen's Battle Trilogy(Style Queen, Queen Wasp, Malediktator) - CHLOE MY GIRL. Okay! Introduction of Audrey. Seeing Emilie in the basement for the first time. Gabriel temporarily giving up on being Hawkmoth because he actually gives a shit about Adrien. Chloé finding the Bee. 'The only thing exceptional about you, is your mother'. (unfortunately the 'encouraged to make up with your abuser' part). Chloé getting the Bee for real! YES.

Heroes' Day(Catalyst and Mayura) - Season finale! Scarlet Moth! The Team of Five! Mayura's first appearance and the reveal of Sentimonsters existing!

Season 3:

Backwarder - though it does have some heavy cringe with Marinette mixing up the deliveries, I love Marianne. So more lore with Fu, the introduction of Marianne who canonically was down to throw hands with Nazis.

Chameleon - Lila returns! Mari looks insane trying to prove she's a liar. Lila makes her threat and is willingly Akumatized. Adrien thinks things are just minor and gives unfortunate but understandable advice.

Silencer - Though the band was kinda mentioned in Captain Hardrock, this is where Kitty Section is really 'A Thing'. Bonus for really establishing Bob as a dick. Also the Akuma's power is cool and there's the sort-of-confession

Oblivio - neat Akuma. beautiful shenanigans with Marinette and Adrien not knowing who they are, but falling in love anyway and trying to figure out how to function. Bonus points for all the 'Super Penguino' metaphors.

Oni-Chan - Lila being a manipulator on many levels and Adrien quickly getting to 'you're on thin fucking ice' with her. Establishes Lila making her deal with Gabriel.

Miraculer - More of Chloé's redemption and Queen Bee! The first time the Heroes see Mayura out in the field I think? Queen Bee v Mayura! Ladybug officially tells Chloé she has to be benched because her identity is known, using this event as a basis of example.

Desperada - The chaos of Adrien trying to be Aspik, plus the debut of Viperion.

Startrain - crumbs for 'why Sabrina is Like That', Kaalki is great. Chloé doing great as a Hero even without her Miraculous and taking control in a crisis to save people! Debut of Pegasus. Also the comedy of not only the class being launched into space but Gabriel being so ???? about that happening, and so dramatic of 'oh no Adrien's on that train in space I must rely on my enemies succeeding for him to be safe!'

Kwamibuster - Little bit of lore, but mostly just the badass moments of Mari using all of the fucking Miraculous and how this was supposed to be something special lmao

Feast - SO MUCH FUCKING LORE. Like a bunch of Lore on the past users, the Guardians, what happened when Fu was a kid, etc. Plus the Guardian Temple coming back!

Ikari Gozen - Marinette and Kagami actually become friends. Debut of Ryuko!

Time Tagger - Bunnyx and all the nonsense she brings!

Party Crasher - this one is a maybe. It's chaotic as fuck, and has the debut of Roi Singe.

Chat Blanc - YEAH THIS. THIS IS A THING. LASER PISS ON THE MOON.

Felix - oh hey the boy! Mostly just establishing that he exists. The first time Gabriel and Emilie's wedding rings are established as important.

Ladybug - Lila's whole 'get Mari expelled' plan. Sentibug. Adrien making his own deal with Lila for Mari's safety.

Battle of the Miraculous (Heart Hunter and Miracle Queen) - YEAH THIS IS UNFORTUNATELY RELEVANT

Season 4:

Truth - Jagged is Luka's dad, comedy of "Truth: "what is Mari's secret?"/everyone: "She loves Adrien"." Lukanette breakup.

Lies - Mostly just for fairness, but you can gather 'adrigami break up for the same reasons lukanette did' if you only watched Lies.

Gang of Secrets - Mari is struggling. The Girlsquad wants to help. Mari gives in and tells Alya that she's Ladybug

Mr. Pigeon 72 - lore-wise this is the intro of the Charms. But tbh I just think everyone needs to see how fucking fantastic Alya was this episode

Furious Fu - Introduction of Su-Han. Tbh he so rarely shows up you can kinda skip this but if you /want/ to see him show up....

Sole Crusher - Zoé's first episode!

Guilttrip - Rose having some vague illness, fluff as everyone tries to love her so much. 'Girl that's a bootyhole' Sentimonster. Debut of Pigella!

Optigami - One of Gabriel's most fantastic plans, and it's something Nathalie thought of lmao. Genuinely good plan though. Tension is high. Unnerved by Sentinino

Sentibubbler - Gabriel going direct approach! Alya wrecking house while being held hostage!

Wishmaker - the chaos of everyone's wishes, and Viperion learning LB and CN's identities.

Hack-San -Scarabella my beloved!!!

Dearest Family - Kind of a 'maybe', but first glimpse of God Mode Tikki.

Gabriel Agreste - this was a trip, but mostly here for Felix finding out Gabriel is Shadowmoth(which.... he. He really didn't need to /confirm/ that. He should know. But I digress).

Shadowmoth's Final Attack(Risk and Strikeback) - Season finale! Felix being a FUCK and handing over all the Miraculous to Gabriel!

Season 5:

Honestly I could say to watch all of Season 5 for the exact opposite reason I said to watch all of Season 1 lmao. But if I have to condense the shitshow:

Evolution - Genuinely so fucking good! Alix darling!

Multiplication - not the best, but does really first establish both the tech to transfer the Miraculous Powers, and that Tomoe is working with Gabriel

Destruction - mostly not important, but kinda cool for LB's complicated af plan. But established Monarch getting hit with Cataclysm.

Jubilation - Into to Socqueline. The Alliance Rings are debuted to the public! Shows that the programs on said rings are designed to help Gabriel track down Ladybug, so if Mari ever wears one there's a risk. (downside is you gotta look at the cabbage patch babies and Chat attempting murder)

Passion - the Lovesquare has reversed and we are SUFFERING. Gabriel is a moron who Akumatized Nathalie knowing she wants to kill his ass. Nathalie as Safari is GREAT though

Illusion - establishes Nino's 'Resistance' idea of Civilians fighting back.

The Kwami's Choice(Transmission and Deflagration) - Tikki and Plagg try to let Mari and Adrien be happy with each other. Scarabella and Kitty Noire are on the scene! The Alliance tracker comes into play as Gabriel finds their identities! Near-victory as he takes them out, but luckily Plagg can think fast. Mari and Adrien return to their jobs as LB and CN.

Migration - Luka knowing the identites finally comes into play!

Derision - HEAR ME OUT. This episode fucking sucks, but in terms of fandom things you might want to see what this nonsense was. And how to divert it.

Adoration - Zoé confesses to Marinette, and Mari FINALLY confesses to Adrien. But Gabriel is a big old bag of DICK.

Emotion - Adrienette! The dance! Felix is finally here as Argos! Red Moon! Really establishing the Sentimonster stuff!

Confrontation - PISS WINDOW. Anger aside, Lila is finally caught!

Collusion - GOD fuck this but it's important to the plot for LB and CN to team up with the Akuma and run the mayor out of office.

Representation - Partly for the closest thing to Adrichat fighting Gabriel we'll get, mostly for Felix's play though.

The Final Day (Conformation and Recreation) - Our Season finale! Adrichat is left out of the fight entirely. Gabriel wins but also dies but still wins because he's remembered as a Hero. But hey at least we got cool fight scenes and Eldritch Kwami out of it!

Bonus:

Watch both the NY and Shanghai specials! They're fun and bring in various characters!

[wilygryphon]

My ideas for if I were to rewrite Miraculous Ladybug

Chloé Bourgeois would get a proper redemption. -She would give up on trying to please her mother after Ladybug offers words of encouragement after Queen Wasp -She develops a positive relationship with her half-sister when Zoé moves to Paris.  Also, the characters actually react to the revelation that Audrey had an extramarital affair that produced a child close to Chloé in age.

Gabriel Agreste is more consistent with his standards and qualms.  While he is willing to take advantage of an emotionally-vulnerable Marinette to Akumatize her (as in Zombizou, Chameleon, and Ladybug), he would not go out of his way to ensure that she is broken in such a way, and he would use his powers to discretely protect her from Cash by Akumatizing him and leading him away from her.  Also, he would never, under any circumstances, Akumatize Adrien.

-Adrigaminette is endgame. There are plenty of shipping moments between the three of them. -Ladybug and Chat Noir reveal their identities to each other at the end of Season 3, and then they start dating, and they also both start dating Kagami as well. -For a bit into Season 4, Kagami is still out of the loop, which causes some tension. -The main plot of Glaciator 2 is moved up to Season 3, because that's one of my favorite episodes. There's also the bonus of including the scene of Hawk Moth aborting the release of his Akuma when he refuses to corrupt Adrien, so you know Chat Blanc and Ephemeral are never going to happen.

Since the incidents that incite the premise are off the table, Chat Blanc does not happen. It is referenced, however, as Adrien has a nightmare that is pretty close to what happened in the episode, minus the time travel rectification.

Season 3 would have a Sandboy redux episode/chapter, which shows new nightmares: Chat Noir's nightmare would manifest Chat Blanc (and at one point, Ladybug would have to fight him solo); Chloé's nightmare is her relapsing back into her old ways and becoming as bad as her mother, which would manifest in the form of Queen Wasp; Marinette's new nightmare would be Lila turning her friends against her (I guess it would be like a Salt fic).

Chloé does not become Miracle Queen. Hawk Moth tries to turn her to his side, but she pretends to accept his deal long enough to get the Bee Miraculous and then uses the trompo to fly off and flee so she can warn Ladybug (Hawk Moth is surprised and he's also holding the Miracle Box, so he can't simply stop her before she jumps off the roof). He switches to Plan B, which is Lila. -The episode largely plays out the same way, although Lila takes the Fox Miraculous as she becomes Miracle Queen. Her mind control drones still resemble bees, mostly, as Hawk Moth does not feel like changing the power set too much. Queen Bee joins the Battle of the Miraculous. The conflict basically ends the same way, but afterward Ladybug and Chat Noir discuss the new status quo and decide they need to trust each other more than ever, and they reveal their identities to one another.

#good chloe #miraculous ladybug #miraculous #miraculous tales of ladybug and chat noir #miraculoustalesofladybugandcatnoir #ladybug #chat noir #cat noir #marinette dupain cheng #adrien agreste #adrinette #ladynoir #ladrien #marichat #adrigaminette #miraculous ladybug rewrite #wilygryphon miraculous ladybug rewrite #chloé bourgeois #queen bee miraculous #queen bee #hawk moth #gabriel agreste #chloé gets a real redemption #lila is miracle queen #i have other stories so i don't know if i'll ever write this for real #so here's an outline with the floor open for additional ideas #chloe bourgeois redemption #chloe and zoe have a real relationship instead of zoe just being #gabriel agreste is consistent #he's still a horrible person

[thesaltyoceanwaves]

why is everyone always hyping up Ms. Mendeleev as this amazing teacher who takes no bull when she really isn’t? in evil illustrator, Mendeleev sees Chloe picking on Nathaniel and even physically rips his sketch book out of his hands and embarrasses him in front of everyone. but not only is Mendeleev more focused on him drawing in class, she only scolds Chloe but doesn’t punish her for being disruptive. in Marinette’s flashback, when Marinette arrives to class late looking downtrodden, she yells at her in front of everyone instead of waiting until the end of class to talk to Marinette privately. she doesn’t ask her what’s wrong, she doesn’t shut down Chloe’s offensive comments about “looking more depressed than usual” and “she wants to design clothes but can’t keep hers clean”, and she yells at Marinette for accusing Chloe of putting paint on her seat by stating that she had no basis to do so. this woman sure does yell a lot doesn’t she? Mendeleev has zero empathy for her students and has no business being a teacher. if we’re going to call out Damocles and Bustier, she deserves a call out as well.

IDK about anything past season 3, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

Back in “the day” (Aka season 3), people (at least on the salt side of the fandom) were starting to get sick of Bustier for enabling Chloe and Lila, and just generally doing a terrible job of managing her classroom. Keep in mind HER ENTIRE CLASS has been akumatized (minus Marinette), with some at this point now being akumatized multiple times. She herself may not have played a major role in these events, but her approach doesn’t help any. Zombizou is the perfect example of this, but also consider how in Origins, she sends IVAN to the office rather than KIM who instigated the whole incident.

Seeing as Damocles also kind of sucked, people decided to take advantage of the fact that Mendeleiev hadn’t had time to suck nearly as much, and seemed somewhat reasonable (her calling out Rose for her perfume is perfectly understandable), and so we (because I also did this) wrote her as a strict, but reasonable authority figure in stark contrast to Bustier’s “niceness,” mostly as a way to add some depth, and you know, a responsible adult figure.

Alas, this is Miraculous, so everyone gets screwed over at some point. Because of this, many people decide to ignore canon and write the characters based on how they were set up and what they thought was the trajectory of their characters, or rework the framing to challenge canon.

#ml salt #ml character salt #salty responds

[zoe-oneesama]

Ooooh can we hear your thoughts and opinions on Miss Bustier, her akuma, and Zombizou’s plot after your fresh rewatch of the episode? >:3c

HoKAY so I held onto this one because I still needed to do my "pause every three seconds to write notes and make dumb quips in the discord chat" rewatch, but NOW!

There is so much ugh in this episode and some of it might sound familiar because I've salted on Bustier before, but here we go, mostly chronologically. These will be both petty and detailed:

Okay I literally had to ask the French Discord if Mylene's gift is a translation error:

It is not. That's what her gift is. I've only heard of people keeping a lock of their LOVER'S hair or that of someone who's passed away. But sure, what a totally normal thing to gift your teacher.

Most of Bustier's approach to things - having fighting students hug it out, quiet time, daily affirmations - could probably work if the cast was elementary school age. Like, really young elementary school age. Like, still learning what empathy is young elementary school age. Like, literally teaching someone "hey it hurts when you're hit, right? So that means it hurts other people when you hit them, right? So you shouldn't hit them because you know it hurts to be hit" young elementary school age.

BUT AS 14 YEAR OLDS THIS COMES ACROSS AS REALLY INFANTILIZING AND TOO LITTLE TOO LATE.

They forgot Chloe's sunglasses in the "Morning Compliment" Scene and it's like she's missing her tiara, it's so wrong. Also she's supposed to be boredly looking at her phone while Rose is talking but her sight line is off:

Sabrina and Nino's Super Different from Season 1 Voice Actors really threw me in this episode, I don't know why specifically this time it did but it did. Maybe because in this episode it feels more like Sabrina's reading off her lines and maybe she's just getting comfortable and maybe Nino's dropped the "cool/surfer guy" affect on accident?

Speaking of Sabrina, me and my sister noted that even she managed to get something for Bustier which led us on a side tangent - why didn't Chloe spend some of her time ordering Bustier something? In "Dark Cupid" she orders a 24-carot Gold Frame for her poster on the walk home and by the time she arrives at the hotel, it's there! You're trying to tell me if she really wanted to she couldn't have had something express delivered for Bustier? Oh what am I saying, that would require Chloe to use her vast resources on someone ELSE and we can't have that!

Point being, despite having at least half the school day (the montage shows them having Chemistry, Lunch, Art, and Dodgeball before Bustier's class), Chloe spent more energy on sabotaging Marinette's gift instead of just easing her own guilt by buying a gift herself. In case anyone thought this episode showed Chloe in a GOOD light.

Montage of Bustier/Zombizou's weird eye/brows/browbone in this episode:

The thinner the brow, the worse the squiggles. This lighting really highlights her scary thin nose bridge and NOT in a good way

It's not as obvious on the small scale, but her eyes have a purple ring around them, her eye lashes are a blue/grey color, and her pupil is TINY, but I prefer that to not HAVING a pupil.

BLUE! LASHES!

Her browbone is clipping through her mask, lovely

Her eyebrow doesn't match up with the brow bone and she doesn't have a furrow between the brows so it looks...so off.

Here's no. 2 closer up

I appreciate the class getting mad on Marinette's behalf but I wish they'd kept their insults to facts - instead of saying she caused half the akumas in Paris or that she's worse than Hawkmoth, stick to the fact she's a bully who hates seeing other people happy. You know, things Bustier can't write off because they're true.

Though it's very telling that this Chloe's face as they call her "worse than Hawkmoth":

She feels no remorse over not JUST ruining Marinette's gift to Bustier, but ruining something that was MEANT for Bustier! But given how Bustier has the AUDACITY to praise Chloe and give her credit, it's no WONDER where Chloe gets her delusional ideas that everyone likes her or should be thanking her when she acts despicable!

But that's no surprise since that's the expected outcome from Bustier's enabling philosophy of "forgive and forget despite the other person truly wronging you in multiple ways, suffering no repercussions, and in fact are getting kudos for behaving poorly on top of never repenting for what they did." Why WOULD Chloe do better when there's no incentive to?!

The only way that Bustier's advice to Marinette to "let go of her anger and forgive Chloe" is if in the meantime, Bustier is punishing Chloe for what she did. Otherwise, this is letting Chloe get away scot-free to vandalize again. What good does that do anyone, including Chloe? What does Bustier think is going to happen when Chloe does the same thing in high school or as an adult but the other person presses charges instead of "forgiving her and letting go of their anger?" She's setting up Chloe for failure, on top of failing Marinette by teaching her that her feelings don't matter and that having negative emotions is shameful.

Because that is Bustier's intent. That feeling negative emotions is something to be ashamed of. When she's deakumatized, she's distraught over "giving in to her negative emotions" and says that "I'm terrible" for doing so. So I guess Bustier thinks her entire class is terrible because they've all been akumatized, good to know.

That's why her "good deeds" are forcing fighting students to hug it out. That's why she makes her students give each other "compliments" but doesn't actually care what the compliments are (since she's satisfied with Chloe's "Rose, today you seem less...annoying." compliment). That's why she'd rather convince Marinette to ignore that Chloe defaced her gift with malicious intent so that Chloe can keep gloating and getting credit - because confronting Chloe would make her feel a "negative emotion" and it's easier to convince Marinette to back down. They're just empty gestures to keep a facade of PoSiTivItY without actually getting to the root of what causes these negative emotions.

If my teacher ever dropped to their knees like this to talk to me over the age of 10, I would be absolutely feral. Get up and talk to me like an equal deserving of respect, not a fucking toddler.

Gotta love that Bustier's defense to being told "Chloe is the meanest person I've ever known" is "oh someone in Paris must be worse than Chloe." Like, oh yeah? Who? Because Marinette hasn't met them.

And honestly, if Chloe hasn't learned "the meaning of love" at age 14, that sounds like a job for therapy and not her equally aged classmates.

Really wish there were more jabs at Zombizou's power. "I'll spread compassion throughout Paris! By making everyone make out with strangers!" There's a lesson about forced, toxic positivity in here that they totally whiffed on.

I knew from reference photos that sometimes Zombizou's lip mark disappears from her chest, but I held out some hope that it meant something like that she needed to reload on lipstick or something. I am but a fool, they just messed up, since above is literally her after one cut.

Now that Zombizou has entered the ring, can we talk about her design? Because I am confused. The short skirt and puffed sleeves feel too young for Bustier and the patchwork and knitting needles aim more for Marinette - which makes sense if it was meant for Marinette. But the powers have nothing to do with Marinette - in fact, even the parts of Zombizou that remind us of Marinette don't match with what Marinette was upset about:

This should've been the first hint of Princess Justice with the way Hawkmoth sensed Marinette's anger, so where'd this patchwork Tim Burton doll come from?

And then the power and motivation - forcing everyone to feel compassion and love through forced physical contact? Again, there's something here about forced positivity and coercing people to "get along" against their will, but they completely abandoned it by the end.

She kicked Mendeleiev's door in half, she kicked the Art Club door in half, she kicked Damocles' door in half, she kicked the school's front doors in half...this woman is a menace. And she has the gall to tell Damocles "I don't like knocking, I prefer a gentler touch."

Some,

BODY!

Let's also appreciate how shiny Mendeleiev's door is.

Tragic, but between evading Mylene and Sabrina in the courtyard and revealing themselves to Ladybug in the locker room, the class lost Nathaniel and no one even noticed. RIP. Literally I didn't notice until me and my sister went backwards from the Eiffel Tower trying to think of who would and wouldn't have been captured if not for Chloe and it took us to getting to Max and Kim on the roof to think "...wait where'd Nathaniel go?"

Some more errors for you:

Max's shirt clipping through his pants

Ladybug's grey flat screen (in "Copycat" it's reflective like any other screen)

Chloe's new facial hair ie. Being Impaled by her Side Hair

And Alix's hat that blips in and out of existence but that happens in so many episodes it's basically not even worth screenshotting anymore.

And I'm at my image limit, but they got Zombified Kim's eyes wrong - the glow green, like in "Despair Bear", instead of the purple they're supposed to be.

Zombizou: "NO ONE can escape MY KISS!" and "Witness the final triumph of love!" Me: "Ma'am that is ASSAULT!"

Sorry not sorry but I don't buy Chloe's heel turn at the end. Literally being carried by Chat Noir, by themselves in an elevator as their entire class was picked off one by one she's still asserting that "only the best remain" and isn't the least bit sad about it. She only suddenly cares about "getting in the way" when Chat Noir is taken out.

Because there's no more meat shields. There's no more canon fodder. There's her and there's Ladybug and if Ladybug is taken out, then so is she. There are no other options for Chloe and Ladybug: Ladybug wins or Chloe is infected like everyone else. This doesn't prove that Chloe feels remorseful, it proves that not even Chloe is dumb enough to overlook what it would mean if Ladybug lost here.

Her putting herself between Chat Noir and Ladybug isn't a sacrifice, it's the only option. It's self preservation, it's the only way to succeed. It's not noble that Chloe only does something when the only other option is the same fate that she happily left everyone else to. You could even argue the only reason Chloe needed to interfere was because Chloe distracted Ladybug by trying to apologize NOW of all times.

What's with this show's blonde's and their bad timing?

And about that apology - what a shoehorn! I think the writers did intend for Chloe's apologies to be genuine, but they failed in the set up. Maybe if Chloe got less and less despicable as classmates were picked off, if she got less and less sure of herself, if she acted like when people sacrificed themselves for her that was something to feel GUILTY about- but she doesn't. She's not guilty or even grateful. Kim puts her before him on the baton? She mocks him for thinking that she might possibly kiss him for it, which wasn't even his goal. Rose gets attacked trying to carry her onto the bus? She snaps at her because she wasn't "fast enough" to stop her ankle from getting twisted. Alix pushes her out of the way to make herself a human barricade between Rose and the rest of the survivors on the bus? She complains about people "invading her personal space".

Her apology to Ladybug reads like her swearing to be nice when Stoneheart throws her from the Eiffel Tower - an empty promise on her "deathbed" that's heard by almost no one that she can immediately take back or pretend never happened.

And her "apology" to Bustier isn't any better. I've already pointed out that Chloe could've used her time to rush order a gift if she felt THAT BAD about forgetting Bustier's birthday. She has a butler, her best friend is basically a personal assistant, she's got a phone that she's glued to half the time - she has so many ways to set a reminder or literally get someone else to do her work for her to ensure she got something for Bustier's birthday. There's no excuse, she flat out didn't care enough, that's all there is to it.

And somehow this and her getting her a gift a day later are supposed to be what clues us in that Chloe "has a heart, she just doesn't know how to use it?" Uh, if they really wanted to prove that, maybe she should've actually taken Alya's suggestion about apologizing to the class seriously instead of gloating over "saving Ladybug?" Chloe didn't change, Chloe didn't learn anything!

All that happened was that Marinette was taught by someone in authority over her to ignore Chloe being awful, leaving her open to give Chloe a chance in "Maledictator", leading to even more entitlement on Chloe's part, eventually leading to "Miracle Queen" and "PenalTeam" with Chloe feeling so entitled to everything being handed to her that she opts to side with the BAD GUY.

THAT'S what the lesson in "Zombizou" leads to. THAT is what this starts. This episode has no re-watch value whatsoever thanks to Seasons 3 and 4 and it is rage inducing with hindsight.

#if you want more about bustier herself check my bustier salt tag because I have gone OFF #bustier salt #zombizou salt #ml salt #chloe salt #writing salt #an essay by zoe

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

So, uhh, is no one going to say anything about the fact that the Zombizou akuma is literally a metaphor to abusive behaviours and the fact the akuma controls people via kisses (magical flying kisses but I digress) as if it says that if someone doesn't obey, just kiss them until they do? that's so freaking uncomfortable. And GOD those stitches, are they supposed to represent emotional scars of her past and present victims?? how TF did they get this akuma allowed!!?? this whole thing is disturbing

Okay, yeah. When you put it like that, it makes “Zombizou” even worse in hindsight.

#immaturity of thomas astruc #iota #miraculous ladybug #miraculous ladybug salt #caline bustier #zombizou

[iwasbored777]

Chloé apologized only to those she looked up to (Caline and Ladybug) & saved Paris a few times, despite it being obvious that Ladybug was desperate for help at the time.

The bar's set so low for this girl by most of her fans, it's quite concerning.

Exactly. I always wonder how people use Zombizou as "a proof of Chloé being a good person" when she vandalized Marinette's gift because she was jealous that Marinette made a gift for their teacher and Chloé didn't and in the end she only apologised to Caline, not Marinette, and got an equal amount of credit as Marinette, who tried hard to make that gift and didn't stay mad at Chloé.

#miraculous ladybug #Ml fandom salt #Ml zombizou #chloé bourgeois #chloé salt #Ml ask #ask and answer #Marinette sugar

[spartanxhunterx]

I just realised that since Marinette's Love language is gift giving, On Miss Bustiers birthday when Chloé defaced Marinette's gift for Miss Bustier, Marinette saw that as an attack on her love language and her capability to show that she loves people.

Not just that her hard work was ruined (although that is still important to it all) but what's worse, or equally as bad, Is Miss Bustier dismissing the matter entirely.

Essentially writing off Marinette's love language in favour of marking the gift Marinette made with her time and money as both of hers and Chloés way of showing how both of them appreciate Caline was no doubt a big slap in the face for Marinette.

With Marinette's Love language being disrespected, her work being damaged, being forced to forgive Chloe, having her Love language (something very personal) being disregarded all while Chloé probably wasn't going to get into trouble, it's no wonder she attracted an Akuma that day.

Can you imagine having something so deeply personal being damaged, disregard and disrespected? I'd be akuma bait too.

Now, this isn't Miss Bustier Salt. A slight failing from her but I doubt she did it intentionally. I doubt one teacher can know all the finer details of their students like that. I'd imagine Caline must have felt guilty from causing Marinette to be negative enough to draw in a Akuma and probably made up for it the next day.

TLDR: Marinette was almost Akumatized in Zombizou cause her love Language was attacked, Disregarded and ignored.

#miraculous ladybug #marinette dupain cheng #zombizou #miss bustier #Marinette's Love language #Not Bustier Salt #just my thoughts on the episode

[missile-silo]

An analysis of the zombizou akuma.

Warning, this goes pretty deep into the character and flaws of Miss Bustier as well as some speculation. Tw for mentions of s*lf h*rm.

The zombizou akuma is very striking, in that it doesn’t particularly reflect miss bustier. It’s knitting based (perhaps based her being akumatised instead of Marinette), but it’s powers are zombie based.

Let’s talk design first.

This is the best image of zombizou I could find, but I am using a lower res full body image for most of the analysis. I’m going to split into three categories; head,costume, and extras.

The head is not particularly striking. The mask is in the shape of a heart at the top, and a classic akuma mask at the bottom. She has heart shaped lipstick, all to really sell the love zombie shtick. The hair is interesting, being almost knitted in place, and a different colour to Miss Bustiers classic red hair, perhaps showing how she doesn’t like the colour.

The costume itself is interesting. There is a slit below her chin, perhaps showing how zombies can be killed if you destroy the head. Shoulder cuffs (?) are stitched together, another nod to Marinette. The big heart in the middle of the costume is another way of selling the shtick, and so are the heart shaped pockets. I find it interesting that the skirt is so short, which could either be another nod to Marinette as a school girl or could be referring to some sort of issue while Bustier was in school. The boots really don’t entertain much discussion, but they could indicate an almost dictatorial control over her classroom, being similar to army style boots.

The extras include some torn arm and leg covers, perhaps retaining to s*lf h*rm. the placing of the tears all fit under Miss Bustiers suit, which reaches to below the elbow area.

I think that this akuma costume is all about how Miss Bustier was bullied in her school days. Maybe not horribly, but if she was a cronie if a bigger bully, then she would have gotten little jabs over the years. Best example of this is heathers, especially the shine a light songs.

Onto the powers of zombizou. She controls zombies by giving them kisses, or to put it another way; making them like/love her. Seem familiar.

She controls her classroom by making all of the mindless kids follow along with what she says, and gets them to attack or convert via peer pressure those who don’t want to do what she says. The reason Ladybug actually defeated zombizou was Chloe getting kissed (I hate the whole cooties subtext of this akuma, it’s creepy to imagine a teacher kissing that many pupils, ranged or not). This is not different to how she urges Marinette to not get angry at Chloe, because that would be a way to make Chloe not like her, thereby breaking the illusion of justice she has on the class.

It’s even more important that it’s Marinette that defeats her, because it’s Marinette taking a stand for herself against most of Paris (symbolic of her class) and her teacher.

I’m not going to lie, this entire thing was written at 1:00 am and is convoluted as hell. Feel free to think whatever you want about the zombizou akuma and Caline, this is just my opinion.

#bustier salt #miss bustier #zombizou

[cerulane]

Marinette refuse de pardonner son acte de vandalisme à Chloé : elle lui a dajà donné de nombreuses chances et il n’est pas de sa responsabilité de lui montrer l’exemple.

Fic intéressante et bien construite qui pointe les défauts de la logique de Madame Bustier.

#mlb fanfic #marinette dupain cheng #caline bustier #season 2 #zombizou #adrien salt #bustier salt #lukanette

[littlemaybug]

tired: marinette's nightmare is adrien dating chloe

wired: marinette's nightmare would probably have something to do with the crushing weight of the responsibility she holds as both a hero and civilian and just how much rests in her hands

#ml salt #miraculous ladybug #we saw a glimpse of that in zombizou #god forbid marinette care about something other than adrien

[princess-of-the-corner]

Your opnion on Bustier salt?

OH BOY.

So like.

I do understand the initial frustration of how she handled things in Zombizou. But there is something to look at in the bigger picture

1.) Bustier was more focused on diffusing the situation so that neither girl got Akumatized

2.) Bustier knows that trying to punish Chloé will get nowhere in the long run. The school system is unfortunately fucked so the girl with influential family will get away with shit. This has happened before in the series. So Bustier has to try and teach a lesson because if she just tried to send Chloé to detention, Chloé would just get out of it.

3.) Combining with the lesson above, she does have a duty to help all her children, even the problem children. Trying to explain to Marinette what she sees, that Chloé is very clearly kinda fucked up because she wasn't taught 'good' things and that they can help her learn, is part of that.

The other thing she gets dunked on is for the Lila stuff but. Lila has this whole web of lies set up, and Bustier did do what she could from what she knew. As far as she knows, she's been in contact with Lila and her family while abroad so that's cleared. She had the class accommodate a student's disability. She has no real idea about any of the things Lila lies about, so she can't weigh in on it. And later in Ladybug, she does have to investigate the anonymous tip and sends the girls to the office to deal with it once she gets the others started on class. She's doing her job, she just doesn't magically know everything.

So yeah just. She is trying to help /all/ her students, is a bit tied up by the bad system, and doesn't know everything so she can't shut things down. I can understand the frustration because 'she's an adult she should try more', but again. She can only do so much with what she has.

I do get pissed off when people just make shit up to make her awful and incompetent as a teacher. Having her put all her duties on Marinette because 'oh the class president can handle that', making up how she was totally a mean girl in high school and that's why she lets the current mean girls run rampant, or the other direction and making her just so dumb she thinks sunshine and rainbows can make vicious harassment and abuse go away. Etc.

#salt on salt