#Hyrkanian | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

racefortheironthrone · 1 year

Note

On your old WOIAF review, you mentioned that the Brindled Men are close to Robert E. Howard's racist ideas about the relationship between humans and apes. Could you elaborate further? Also, what do you think about the theory that the Brindled Men and the Ibbenese are another species of men, like the Neatherthals and the Australoptecus were to us? Or do you think their depictions in WOIAF should be read as not 100% accurate, since the meisters are talking about things so distant from Westeros that they only heard about?

I want to clarify my current thinking, because I find myself a bit unsure as to what the situation is.

It's always difficult to divine a writer's intent, but I think that's particularly true in this case because of two simultaneously true facts: one, GRRM is fascinated by the idea of what if the non-homo sapiens hominids, like the Neanderthals and the Denisovians, were still around. Two, GRRM is a huge fan of the work of Robert E. Howard and that dude had some weird and unusually racist even for the 1920s beliefs about human beings, great apes, and how evolution and species works. (I'm going to leave aside H.P Lovecraft for the moment, because parsing the similarites and differences between their thinking on this when they spent years corresponding with each other about this and many other topics is pretty hard to do.)

To provide a short version of Howard's beliefs: in part because Howard was a white Texan born very close to the "closing of the American frontier," and in part because of how he personally related to America in the 1920s, Howard had this odd combination of beliefs, in which he saw "barbarism" (which he sort of used as a short-hand for both less-developed times, places, and definitely people, including pretty much all non-white people) as savage, unintelligent, driven entirely by base urges, but also honest and vibrant and energetic; similarly, he viewed "civilization" (which again, he used as a short-hand for certain peoples, places, and times that he considered to be the most similar to contemporary white people) as more enlightened, more refined, more intellectual, but also corrupt and decadent.

In Howard's mind, humanity was constantly in a loop of civilization growing ever more refined and decadent until it collapsed back into barbarism due to its own weakness and corruption, at which point it would be replaced by the rising dynamism of the barbarian who had toppled it, who would found a new civilization, and then so on. (Howard was probably borrowing from someone who had borrowed from Ibn Khaldun.)

What made Howard weird, though, is that he thought this could happen at the level of the species: if humanity became too "degenerate," they would literally go backwards and devolve into non-human apes; and vice-versa, apes could ascend and become human (or at least human-like).

You see this trope all over Howard's writings. Here it is in "Tower of the Elephant":

""We saw men grow from the ape and build the shining cities of Valusia, Kamelia, Commoria, and their sisters. We saw them reel before the thrusts of the heathen Atlanteans and Picts and Lemurians. We saw the oceans rise and engulf Atlantis and Lemuria, and the isles of the Picts, and the shining cities of civilization. We saw the survivors of Pictdom and Atlantis build their stone age empires, and go down to ruin, locked in bloody wars. We saw the Picts sink into abysmal savagery, the Atlanteans into apedom again. We saw new savages drift southward in conquering waves from the arctic circle to build a new civilization, with new kingdoms called Nemedia, and Koth, and Aquilonia and their sisters. We saw your people rise under a new name from the jungles of the apes that had been Atlanteans. We saw the descendants of the Lemurians who had survived the cataclysm, rise again through savagery and ride westward, as Hyrkanians. And we saw this race of devils, survivors of the ancient civilization that was before Atlantis sank, come once more into culture and power—this accursed kingdom of Zamora."

Here it is in "Rogues in the House":

“That is Thak,” answered the priest, caressing his temple. “Some would call him an ape, but he is almost as different from a real ape as he is different from a real man. His people dwell far to the east, in the mountains that fringe the eastern frontiers of Zamora. There are not many of them; but, if they are not exterminated, I believe they will become human beings in perhaps a hundred thousand years. They are in the formative stage; they are neither apes, as their remote ancestors were, nor men, as their remote descendants may be. They dwell in the high crags of well-nigh inaccessible mountains, knowing nothing of fire or the making of shelter or garments, or the use of weapons. Yet they have a language of a sort, consisting mainly of grunts and clicks.

“I took Thak when he was a cub, and he learned what I taught him much more swiftly and thoroughly than any true animal could have done. He was at once bodyguard and servant. But I forgot that being partly a man, he could not be submerged into a mere shadow of myself, like a true animal. Apparently his semi-brain retained impressions of hate, resentment, and some sort of bestial ambition of its own."

And here it is again in "Queen of the Black Coast:"

"Cast in the mold of humanity, they were distinctly not men. They were winged and of heroic proportions; not a branch on the mysterious stalk of evolution that culminated in man, but the ripe blossom on an alien tree, separate and apart from that stalk. Aside from their wings, in physical appearance they resembled man only as man in his highest form resembles the great apes. In spiritual, esthetic and intellectual development they were superior to man as man is superior to the gorilla. But when they reared their colossal city, man’s primal ancestors had not yet risen from the slime of the primordial seas.

...Many died who drank of it; and in those who lived, the drinking wrought change, subtle, gradual and grisly. In adapting themselves to the changing conditions, they had sunk far below their original level. But the lethal waters altered them even more horribly, from generation to more bestial generation. They who had been winged gods became pinioned demons, with all that remained of their ancestors’ vast knowledge distorted and perverted and twisted into ghastly paths. As they had risen higher than mankind might dream, so they sank lower than man’s maddest nightmares reach. They died fast, by cannibalism, and horrible feuds fought out in the murk of the midnight jungle. And at last among the lichen-grown ruins of their city only a single shape lurked, a stunted abhorrent perversion of nature."

And here it is in "Shadows in the Moon":

"Out of the shadows of the cliffs moved a monstrous shambling bulk--an anthropomorphic horror, a grotesque travesty of creation.

In general outline it was not unlike a man. But its face, limned in the bright moonlight, was bestial, with close-set ears, flaring nostrils, and a great flabby-lipped mouth in which gleamed white tusk-like fangs. It was covered with shaggy grayish hair, shot with silver which shone in the moonlight, and its great misshapen paws hung nearly to the earth. Its bulk was tremendous; as it stood on its short bowed legs, its bullet-head rose above that of the man who faced it; the sweep of the hairy breast and giant shoulders was breathtaking; the huge arms were like knotted trees.

The moonlight scene swam, to Olivia's sight. This, then, was the end of the trail--for what human being could withstand the fury of that hairy mountain of thews and ferocity? Yet as she stared in wide-eyed horror at the bronzed figure facing the monster, she sensed a kinship in the antagonists that was almost appalling."

So you can see why I get a little nervus when in WOIAF GRRM invents a new group of people in the far-off land of Sothoryos and describes them in terms like this:

"And the native races grow ever more savage and primitive the farther one travels from the coasts.

The Sothoryi are big-boned creatures, massively muscled, with long arms, sloped foreheads, huge square teeth, heavy jaws, and coarse black hair. Their broad, flat noses suggest snouts, and their thick skins are brindled in patterns of brown and white that seem more hoglike than human. Sothoryi women cannot breed with any save their own males; when mated with men from Essos or Westeros, they bring forth only stillbirths, many hideously malformed.

The Sothoryi that dwell closest to the sea have learned to speak the trade talk. The Ghiscari consider them too slow of wit to make good slaves, but they are fierce fighters. Farther south, the trappings of civilization fall away, and the Brindled Men become ever more savage and barbaric. These Sothoryi worship dark gods with obscene rites. Many are cannibals, and more are ghouls; when they cannot feast upon the flesh of foes and strangers, they eat their own dead."

Are these Neanderthals and/or a non-sapiens hominid species, or is GRRM unwisely indulging in a bit of Howard pastiche in a more problematic way than just dropping the city of K'dath or Carcosa on to the map of furthest Essos? It's hard to say. Some of the details - the description of the bones, the long arms, the foreheads, the jaws, the mention of them not being able to cross-breed - suggest a non-sapiens hominid like the Neandethals. But others - the fact that some of them can learn to talk but further into the interior they become more bestial, the mention of "dark gods with obscene rites," the invocation of cannibalism and corpse-eating - feel like Howard pastiche. And then the eponymous skin seems like all GRRM's invention, but it's hardly flattering.

Either way, I think this is an aspect of the world-building that should have been edited out. I don't really see the benefits being worth the potential downsides.

#asoiaf #asoiaf meta #brindled men #robert e howard #conan #cw racism #conan the barbarian

56 notes · View notes

soullessjack · 9 months

Note

Okay, you HAVE to talk to me about what you found out about Sam's DVD stuff now.

well, for the first one: Red Sonja is a comic book series about a warrior woman who’s essentially the original “chainmail-bikini clad female warrior” archetype and was inspired by Red Sonya from The Shadow Of The Vulture

To be as brief as possible, both Sonja and Sonya are redheaded female warrior archetypes. Sonja’s more of a tomboy/swashbuckler type, but Sonya herself is the original “chainmail-bikini clad female warrior” to kickstart the entire archetype. IK I linked them both for your own reading but Sonya’s backstory is just so insane to me, both in general and in the sense that this is some of Jack’s first formative medias :

“Red Sonja lives with her family in a humble house in the Western Hyrkanian steppes. When she is 21, a group of mercenaries kills her family and burns down their house. Sonja attempts to defend herself, but cannot lift her brother's sword. She is raped by the leader of the group. Answering her cry for revenge, the red goddess Scáthach appears to her and gives her incredible fighting skills, on the condition that she never lie with a man unless he defeats her in fair combat.”

Then the second one is BeastMaster/BM2,

which is basically a story about a last surviving tribesman named Dar who can magically communicate with animals and forms a found family of other last survivors on his own quest to find Kyra, his lost lover. there’s more meat and themes to this series than the Sonja one, especially in the sense of how these medias could have influenced Jack or any of his personality:

“The general story arc of the series is that the world is changing, civilization is advancing, technology is gaining ground slowly, the old orders of magic and sorcery are fading, and the world is threatened by the supernatural being Balcifer, the Dark One, played by Jeremy Callaghan. Dar is the son of King Eldar, who was destroyed by Balcifer. To defeat Balcifer Dar must locate and reunite his family, who have been turned into animals to hide them from Balcifer, in the Crystal Arc.”

(I’m sure there’s no parallels to be made whatsoever between Jack and a main hero who’s personally tied to a dark supernatural threat with the name ending in –LCIFER).

It’s also stated that despite being an action show, BM did come to have more pacifist/naturalist tones overall (probably a good indicator as to what influences Jack’s good-boy routine).

Honestly, with this knowledge in mind now, my biggest takeaway is just how much more relatable Jack’s own experience is to mine, as a formerly sheltered child whose influential medias were largely distanced from the mainstream. I can’t seem to think of a way to apply Red Sonja as an influence on Jack, so I’ll toss the ring to you if you have something!

#holdthypeace.txt #spn #supernatural #jack kline #red sonja #beastmaster #13x05 #funeralia #I think that’s the correct episode .. idk #spn season 13 #sam winchester #sam and jack #spn headcanons #spn meta #spn analysis

4 notes · View notes

graphicpolicy · 1 year

Text

Dynamite celebrates 50 years of Red Sonja with a new series

Dynamite celebrates 50 years of Red Sonja with a new series #comics #comicbooks #redsonja

Red Sonja is roaring into a brand new ongoing series for the hallmark celebration of 50 fantastic years across comics, film, and beyond! The first issue will be on sale this July 19, coinciding with San Diego Comic Con. Writer Torunn Grønbekk is bringing her trademark flair for powerful women and weapon-wielding heroes to the Hyrkanian heroine for an exciting new era. Initially working closely…

View On WordPress

#comic books #Comics #dynamite entertainment #jim cheung #mike mignola #omi remalante jr.#red sonja #shannon maer #simon bowland #torunn gronbekk #walter geovani

3 notes · View notes

that-dinopunk-guy · 1 year

Text

Adventures on a public Conan Exiles server, day four

Technically this one is two sessions, but the first one wasn't long enough to warrant its own post.

Anyway last night I hopped on for a quick iron run, and on the way I ran into two asshole NPCs: some nameless dancer guy, and a rather unfriendly lady named Frigga Falsehope.

Frigga in particular gave me quite a thrashing, and I wasn't going to let such an injustice stand. So I ran home, busted out my bow and arrows, and...

Normally I'm not in favor of topless busty redheads being shot with arrows so hard they tear in half at the waist, but Miss Falsehope's rudeness was simply inexcusable. Perhaps when she spawns elsewhere on the map she'll have learned some manners from this ordeal.

Anyway, while I was teaching these two ne'er-do-wells some manners, I was able to complete my Sharpshooter journey, which meant I could unlock the powerful Hyrkanian bow!

Unfortunately I needed thick leather to make it, and I didn't have any. I knew there were some reptilian monstrosities nearby that would drop thick hide, with which I could then make thick leather, but after wasting like half my arrows on one of those fuckers and getting nowhere I decided to look elsewhere. (One thing I don't like about this game is how obnoxiously bulletspongey some of the enemies are.)

Fortunately gorillas also drop thick hide, and there's always a bunch of those in Xel-ha.

So I started traveling northeast to the Forgotten City of Xel-ha, mostly along the river because so many jungle enemies are a pain in the ass at my level.

Yeah, go find someone else to devour, you legless prick.

Before long I was at the Xel-ha Docks, with two gorillas just waiting to be skinned.

...Problem was, I was too low level to do enough damage with my poniards and short sword before they killed me, so I had to retreat, whip up a bow and some arrows, and cheese the bastards.

I made over a hundred arrows and I'd burned through all of them before the end, but eventually I managed to kill the two gorillas. So, standing triumphant on the docks, I pulled out my trusty skinning knife and harvested...

...Six thick hide. With which I can make six thick leather.

The powerful Hyrkanian bow takes twenty thick leather. COOOOOOOL.

By that time I was feeling pretty tired, so I logged out and went to bed. What do you want from me, I'm turning forty this year.

By the time I logged back in, I had a plan. I knew where I could definitely get some thick leather. Would I get enough? Who knows. But it would beat hunting gorillas and reptilian monstrosities. So I started heading west.

Yep, this is a public server, alright.

When traveling on foot in this game, you must always play this track in your head.

Eventually I arrived at my destination: the swimming ghost who gets shot by a ghost crossbow and ghost drowns, causing a non-ghost treasure chest to rise from the riverbed. Like a fucking idiot, I did not screenshot this. But I did get fourteen thick leather. Enough to make my new bow! Then, while I was in the neighborhood, I decided to continue traveling along the river and pick up some journal pages and emotes.

Some people just have no sense of style.

On my travels I encountered one of those new bloodstone rocknoses, so now I have some blood crystal!

Then, finally, it was time to head back home. I'd advanced a few levels and I was getting uncomfortably close to encumbrance, so I headed east back towards the jungle.

And then...

Aw yeah, can't wait to do slightly more damage with this bad boy.

Also, since I was now leveled up enough to make the awnings for the Flotsam building set (but not for any of the other styles, which I can't unlock for another twenty levels...god the way Funcom decided to handle the awnings in this game is fucking stupid), I replaced the roof pieces covering my porch.

Much better.

#conan exiles #video games #conan the barbarian

0 notes