#Ludinus wants the gods dead | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

utilitycaster · 6 days

Note

RE: Ruidusborn superstition - It's weird because Matt has had several opportunities to make it about persecution and hasn't. Laura could've made it a stronger point in her backstory with Gelvaan and didn't. This rounding up Ruidusborn and throwing them in jail is a theoretical crime that a bad guy in a cult told them might happen.

Dealing with the unfair persecution of non Vanguard Ruidusborn in the fallout of this could be interesting to explore, but a) it hasn’t happened yet and b) still entirely the fault of the Vanguard for, ya know, all the crime. I just don’t get why some folks aren’t exploring the actual interesting conflict in front of them (i.e. being tied to something inherently destructive, your parent using you as a justification for her crimes, etc.) and instead make it about some secret twist coming that will totally make Liliana and the Vanguard “correct” actually in order to (I assume?) justify Imogen’s brief consideration of them and dunk on Orym for having the audacity to not be objective about the organization that killed his family.

Hey anon,

This is a very good point re: the actual conflicts present. I know I've been guilty of going hard on Liliana and the thing is I do find her a profoundly compelling and sympathetic villain. I think she was placed in an impossible position by Predathos imbuing her with troubling and at times painful powers; that despite having good intentions with regards to the nature of Ruidus (there is a lot of value in both studying it and in concealing its nature, depending on your perspective) people other than Ludinus were unable to give her answers and so she was easy prey for his cult; and she has since been driven by these motivations so far down the road of the Ruby Vanguard that even when the daughter she has believed herself for so long to be protecting tries to give her an out and asks her why she's doing this, she can't answer but is terrified of leaving. She is very sympathetic. She is very much a villain. And yes, I'll cover Orym in a second.

The following is, by necessity due to the nature of what I want to discuss, going to touch on some real-world politics though mostly in the sense of abstract strategy with very few specific actual positions. I want to note that we are talking about a fictional work here, and while I do have some presumptions regarding the people advocating for the Vanguard, they are just that - presumptions. I will only say that if this is how the people advocating for the Vanguard engage with people in real-world activism (if they partake in that in the first place), this may be a revealing insight into why they are perhaps less than successful.

Every argument in favor of killing the gods ultimately presupposes killing the gods is correct. They are all, ultimately, either tautological (we should kill the gods because they are deserving of death) and assume that the only objective conclusion is "we should kill the gods", therefore anything other than "we should kill the gods" cannot be objective.

I may be repeating myself since I've said this a lot since the last episode but: there as a truly bone-chilling lack of empathy in thestatement that Orym needs to stop bringing up his dead family and get over it and be objective (read: agree with the premise that the gods should be killed). Actually, if you are a person capable of perceiving others as people, you will likely realize that it is cruel and absurd to expect someone to say "this group murdered my family, but because they did so with the correct motivations, I shall stop mentioning it." As you indicated, it's bizarre that Orym is expected to set the wholesale murder - deliberately set up with no hope of resurrection, just to twist the knife - aside, but Imogen is never expected to set aside the (let's face it, extremely tenuous, given that Liliana's been absent for over a quarter-century) feelings about her mother, a person who recruits child soldiers, turned Vax into an orb, and is a general in the death cult that murdered Orym's husband and father. Like, in a real-world scenario, someone in Orym's position very well might have just left over this. Your friends keep failing to consider your trauma? Perhaps it's time to, painful as it may be, find friends who will be sensitive. [I don't want to focus on the shipping or character dynamic aspects with that particularly argument against Orym, but this is a fictional work and I do think another running theme in all sorts of discourse is that you do not need to justify your ships as logical, and when you do, you really do sound like "why doesn't Ross, the largest friend, simply eat all the other friends." There are logical reasons why Orym might not want to talk with, for example, Fearne or Ashton; but also the heart wants what it wants, and again, if you aren't truly ignorant about the way human psychology works you have to acknowledge that.]

Before I move on to other items I want to note I've as of late seen attempts not just to discredit Orym but to pathologize his behavior as self-harming or moral OCD or a failure to get fully over grief (again, an expectation that is not just devoid of empathy but also sets the standard of 'get over grief' as "agrees with me") and not just "hey, this group killed my husband and father in front of me and I understandably will not budge on this particular front. So there's also a growing ableist push, here, because someone doesn't agree with you and will not agree with you and also might want to kiss someone different than whom you want them to kiss.

As of late, the banner of those wronged by the gods has shifted from any of Bells Hells to those of Aeor, and that is a bad sign in a D&D campaign. If you need to set aside the PCs in order to rely on NPCs who have not shown up in the current narrative? You are clinging to a melting iceberg, my man. (More so after invoking FCG as one of the victims of Aeor's demise, rather than someone created to be used for malicious purposes by Aeor; and even more so after they destroyed themself specifically in heroic sacrifice to save the rest of the party from a Vanguard general.). But more seriously, the focus on Aeor feels reminiscent of advocacy for the unborn; or, to take a page from my own personal experiences and move this back into a fandom realm, the way people will frequently more loudly decry antisemitism for depictions of goblins than for, say, the fact that I don't know of an American synagogue that hasn't experienced a bomb threat in the past 10 years. It's very easy to advocate for corpses or fetuses over the living, or for fictional characters over real people who might be less than perfect. Much easier to ensure they never do such inconvenient things as disagree with you or have their own suggestions or be complicated. It hearkens back to some of the conversations I and others had earlier this campaign about a denial of agency because by making characters victims "stripped of choice," (always that phrasing) suddenly they can't do wrong. They make for a shit story, but at least you can feel morally pure about your flavorless cardboard that ultimately means nothing in-world or out. (And if they don't have agency, that means your morality pet can't run away. Or blow themselves up in a stunning rejection of your argument.)

Returning to the Vanguard: an ongoing discussion in activist spaces (and internet ones as well) is that there's a weird ignorance of optics as an important factor in activism. I know it seems frustrating - why can't people just see that this cause is just - but optics have always been a crucial part of any successful movement. I mean, even if you do believe that we need to do more to combat climate change - and I do - my, and most people's response to the environmental activists who keep throwing soup or paint on artwork is "ugh, this again?" I mean, functionally, while the cause is far more just, it's not terribly distinct from the weird-ass He Gets Us ad campaign; most people are going to say "and you're doing this instead of anything helpful...why?" The Vanguard's optics SUCK. Sure, they've fomented some unrest, but it is an unfortunate truth that the vast majority of people will prefer the inherent violence of a stable system that they are used to over violent unrest. For a successful coup or radical change, either you need to strike at the seat of power extremely quickly or you need to show that you are the more, for lack of a better term, civilized option, and the Vanguard has failed utterly in both these. You're going to get a few places like Hearthdell (though, really, how long will that last given that they got rid of the temple without a scrap of help from Ludinus) but you're going to get a lot of places where city dwellers say "ugh, these stupid crystals are so fucking loud, could this motherfucker shut up" and you're also going to get no shortage of places that say "my family member was taken in by this cult" or "these guys murdered my professor". The rightness or wrongness of the Vanguard's politics aside, a lot of people in-world are likely to side with Orym - these people are murderers who disturb the peace and we should stop them. The cause is lost. Is it, in some absolute sense, fair that people will judge you more for how you convey a message than what the message is? No, although if you convey it in rivers of blood, then, perhaps, yes. But it is, fair or not, often true.

Which brings me back to Orym. I think the reason people are stooping so low specifically to malign and discredit Orym is because he brings all of the above uncomfortably to light. He's aligned with Keyleth, who quite frankly until pretty recently was, within the fandom, partly as (understandable) backlash to the hate she received, and partly because she was, if nothing else, always portrayed as someone deeply attuned to the human costs, treated as a morally infallible authority; and she is no friend to the gods yet still believes their demise is far too great a risk to take. Again, thinking of yourself as Exandria's equivalent of the man on the street (Imahara Joe the Plumber?), are you going to listen to "those people killed my husband and father to prove a hypothesis so that they could tether the moon?" or "my mom, who left me when I was two years old and never came back or sent a letter, is one of those people?" And that's assuming Imogen's even going to make that argument, which, as her actions indicate, she's probably not going to. But most of all I think they really don't like that Orym isn't backing down from "That is the blade that killed my father and husband. She is not right." He's kept to this story the entire time, while the positions of others have evolved. And he's telling the truth. Every time he says this, I think anyone who isn't actually a complete black hole of empathy must confront how much of their humanity they are supressing just to make a poorly-argued point about a D&D show and I'd imagine that can't make one feel very good.

I think people are terrified of Orym's conviction, because he has shown, time and time again, that he is not going to be swayed. I don't think, in fact, that he's going to be swayed by seeing Aeor, should that happen, since Aeor was destroyed a thousand years before he, Will, or Derrig were born, and their murders failed to undo that harm in any way. A really good way to turn people away from your cause, even if it's a good one, is killing those they love. And again, it's fine if you see that position as unfair, or ignorant, or even amoral. It's also extremely true. And I think people realize it's true, given that the only defenses I've seen for Liliana have been "well, but she's Imogen's mother" and "well, it's shockingly easy for people to fall into a cult, because this has happened to my family members." Clearly, we agree that people will place personal connections and the pain of those close to them over ideology. Orym's is just really inconvenient for some people, and so he must be discredited.

In the end: the people in the story who at every turn choose manipulation, indoctrination, violence, subjugation, and conquest are saying "This is the way; you just have to trust me." Is it any surprise most people watching the show are saying "No, I don't think I will"?

#answered #Anonymous #long post #critical role

60 notes · View notes

revvethasmythh · 9 months

Text

tbh still thinking about these tags, re: my Relvin's Life is a Tragedy post:

#godddd like I do think liliana's a lost cause at this point if primarily cuz it's just too late#but like if you don't want ludinus dead for taking advantage of this tragedy ALONE#idk how to fuckin help you. just do not know. (@essektheylyss)

Because like. It's so simple but so cutting. What Ludinus is doing has a million more micro-effects than the macro ones we're seeing. It's not just that he wants to kill the gods, it's about the minor (if they can be called that) wreckages he's leaving in his path toward that goal. Broken families. Homes that should be warm and full of life. People who should still be there but are instead lost or dead or subsumed by this goal. There's a world where Imogen got to grown up with a mother. There's a world where Relvin had reason to keep all the kitchen chairs, or maybe even add a few extra. There's a world that could have had less pain in it. And that simple tragedy is so, so cutting. Even if, for some reason, you think the gods deserve to be eaten, do you think Imogen deserved to grow up with family? Do you think Bor'dor deserved better than manipulation and indoctrination in a cult? It's not just the gods being hurt. There are so many minute, human tragedies every day because of this.

#not me actually getting emotional about it #it's just SO #it fucks me up man #critical role #bells hells

356 notes · View notes

danwhobrowses · 18 days

Text

So a thing happened on Critical Role this week (campaign 3 ep 91), we're gonna talk about it - a long talk - so if you haven't been caught up and don't wanna be spoiled don't keep reading okay?

One of the disadvantages of being in a different time zone is that after fretting all morning, going to work, thinking 'it's 7am maybe it's done now' I had to sit in my office for a stressful final half hour murmuring don't do this don't fucking do this don't you dare fucking do this!

I already was worried for everyone given the cliffhanger last episode, and the 5 hour length made me further worried as players kept being knocked down by Otohan Thull - already frightening in base form but now with an even higher AC and empowered. Then Sam Riegel had to do what he does best, a devastating sacrifice where FCG blows himself up to take down Otohan - Ludinus' No. 2, harrowed for being proficient in slaughter, defeated by no assassin or warrior but a cleric saving their friends. We've been well past 'get off the moon' hours with this one, but now there is an impact on every one of the Hells to think about, which is what this will be about.

FCG Though he is dead there is still stuff to talk about with FCG's death. A common debate right now is the potential of the Reincarnate spell; while the wording of the death implies that FCG's current body is irreparable there is a chance that a 5th Level Druid Spell can fashion him a new body, one of flesh, bone and tongue. The body itself needs to be dead for less than 10 days so there is wiggle room to gain the necessary components too if the top brass of Exandria turn it into a fetch quest. There is argument on both sides though; if FCG comes back does it undermine his sacrifice? Perhaps, but there's no incentive for the Hells to not try. Reincarnation hasn't quite happened in Critical Role yet - Since Molly/Lucien/Kingsley was kinda different, he kinda had the opposite, different mind same body - so it'd be a refreshing new option and also a way to redesign FCG without having to create a whole new cleric (because they definitely need a cleric) with a whole new skillset that the Hells will need to warm towards before the final battle. But at the same time, the soul has to be willing. FCG was content with his sacrifice, and in the arms of the Changebringer would he go back? I'd like to hope so if it's an option, it'd also entertain a whole new character arc for him as a 'real boy' - plus Matt and Sam don't have to fully abide to the D100 rule of what race he turns into. Of course, I like this angle more than needing a new character, because I like happy endings and it makes narrative sense that the Hells would claw and bite to pull him from that sweet goodnight. It would also validate a reason for the Hells to align with the gods, because if divine favour comes into play and the Gods decide against helping Bell's Hells' greatest advocate for saving them then they are foolishly and callously forsaking key players to their survival, FCG reincarnating with the help of the Gods would play a big part in the Hells standing with them rather than losing faith in them, and even with friction between the Titans & Temults and the Gods from the past they would have a common enemy. Still living or dying can have varying effects on the other characters.

Ashton From the moment Ashton met FCG they wanted to make sure this little bot would be okay, that they'd learn to value their life and be able to thrive. While part of that did happen, Ashton is likely going to feel like nothing's changed since Bassuras; knocked out by Otohan and when awakened a friend is dead, another person they couldn't protect.

Before the shard, I think Ashton would very easily fly off the handle, in their anger they'd blame everything including themselves and maybe even consider leaving themselves, it probably have made them more self-destructive too. Now though I'm not so sure, nobody would hold it against them to waver a little on their promise to take care of themselves in a burst of grief, this was after all their best friend someone they looked after like a little brother, and while I can see Ashton quietly and angrily grieving I can also see Ashton double down on trying to keep their promise, making sure that FCG didn't go out like a martyr and that it won't be in vain. FCG reincarnating would assist in Ashton's character drive too, since I feel like they would detest any replacement cleric because it's not FCG, they may also be less abrasive towards the gods if they came through for them and proved that they care - at least to the Changebringer, think they'd still throw copper at the Dawnfather given the whole Angel incident.

Imogen As the nominated leader of Bell's Hells, many will probably look to Imogen Temult for action, the problem is she has her own mother issues to deal with too - and I'm not entirely sold that Liliana has fully made a turn just yet, only that she won't hand over the Hells to Ludinus. FCG's death is gonna produce a lot of guilt from Imogen though, she was detesting the fact that she had to play dead at 1HP while Otohan cut down her friends again, she will likely blame her inaction which in turn may push her to be more aggressive in combat.

At the same time, I can see her being one of the more gung ho characters to push towards the Reincarnate option, perhaps even going as far as to accost or lambast anyone regardless of alliances or rank who she feels isn't as committed. Imogen has been in the position of loss before, and knowing that FCG had a connection with FRIDA she would likely compel herself to fix it rather than have to deliver the bad news. Regardless of whether he reincarnates though I feel like Imogen may look towards some more defensive spells, and maybe through Liliana try to tap into the powers of an Exalted to try and match the power she saw from Otohan, a risky endeavour for sure but FCG took an even greater risk for them.

Orym Orym is probably the toughest of the Hells to read when it comes to FCG's death. There will of course be a deep sadness at the loss of a friend, but I would also sense a...not bitterness but discontent that this is how it went down. Otohan killed his family, he kept fighting her until he could no longer stand because that's what they would've done, and now she's dead but it doesn't make it better, he wasn't the one to do it, he didn't even see it, and the one who did is gone with her. When Bor'dor was killed, Orym coldly reminded himself that 'we're at war', but I don't think he can justify that way with FCG, the loss was greater than the catharsis.

The death also has to turn attention to his deal with Nanna Mori. Many have pointed out that there is a lot of technicalities that may prolong, void or complete the deal; it was never specified how many times the Hells could return from the moon to continue the deal, but at the same time they did technically return from the moon to Exandria safe and sound via the Secret Backdoor. Still, Mori is his best friend's grandmother, there could be leeway on that matter too and even if he does have to commit to the deal (which I call 'Fatekeeper Orym') it's never been explicitly said that Orym needs to constantly attend to Mori in the Feywild, only that he has to be her caretaker and answer her beck and call. However, FCG's death will likely provide a sobering thought that his deal with Mori was perhaps voided, unless there is one more thread he can have her pull. When it comes to seeking options to bring a friend back, I would keep a close eye on Orym - it's not the first time Liam's resolved himself to be damned before.

Fearne Fearne will likely be a linchpin if the Hells seek out Reincarnate. The spell is exclusive to Druids and if Keyleth isn't on hand to do it the task and pressure will fall to her. It'll be interesting how she reacts, I don't wanna say she'll be the most positive of it because she'll certainly be upset, but I can see her being optimistic even if it's to also convince herself, the one who is most encouraging to find a way. As a shipper I of course want her to be the one who comforts and gets through to Ashton while they grieve but if she also is key to his reincarnation that also adds to their slow-burn. Outside of that, FCG's death may also lead into learning about Mori's deal with Orym, which will probably anger her that Orym kept it from her, there is also the fact that having FCG's life in her hands may bring back bad memories of Bassuras and Whitestone. One must also especially worry about her Asmodeus calling card, the Prince of Lies does nothing for free and I still feel like Klask was planted in her path by Asmodeus' (and maybe even Athion's) titan-seeking design.

If FCG does reincarnate though, I could see her friendship with FCG being even greater than it was, since they'll both feel a greater zeal for life - it may also make her feel further distant from her Evil vision, since she will have saved half her friends rather than risked killing them. If not though, Fearne may have to play mediator for the new cleric and may also be pushed towards freeing up more slots for healing to provide more support for the Hells in future battles.

Chetney It's gonna be an interesting one for Chetney too, from one perspective you could see him thinking that FCG traded their life for his; he died, he made peace with that, but then the one who revived him died. Chetney's more personal mindset has often been cloaked in secrecy, perhaps as one of the least open of the Hells despite many claiming him as the Heart of the group, so I wonder if Chetney may harbour some Survivor's Guilt for what happened.

I can see Chetney being the one to keep his emotions close to his chest, even if FCG were to reincarnate he would perhaps try to shrug off that he always knew it'd happen anyway. That being said someone who remains stoic and unwavering may prove a positive or a negative to the group, depending on the person or their interpretation of it. If a new cleric comes along though I could see him being additionally protective of them, having been the new guy before.

Laudna We should all be worried for Laudna right now. The recent 4SD already revealed that Laudna's 'close to the brink' and I'm pretty sure this is the brink. The aftermath of the Otohan fight will likely push each of the Hells to get stronger, since had they hit harder or been able to take stronger blows it wouldn't have come to this, but that will mean bad things when it comes to Laudna, as she may seek to gain power the only way she thinks she can - through Delilah. After all her last two levels went to Sorcery and did little in the fight, whereas her Warlock class Eldritch Blasts hurt Otohan fairly decently, such a thing can linger in the mind for Delilah to manipulate.

It'll be telling if they do try to Reincarnate him whether the damage will have been done already to Laudna, and that the joy of bringing him back turns to tragedy of Laudna losing herself further, as it often does it will fall to how she leans on Imogen, and how open about it she'll be to her. If FCG is lost however, we may have to keep a very close eye on Laudna being next.

Bell's Hells As I mentioned with Laudna, FCG's death will have made something apparent and clear; despite everything Bell's Hells need to get stronger. Even at Lv13, even with Exalted powers, Fey bargains and Titan shards they still just barely escaped a TPK, and granted they were weakened and worn out but no fight is guaranteed to ever be fought at 100%. Otohan may've been the toughest General of the Vanguard but the other Generals - the Weavemind, Zathuda and the Dominon of Cruft Commander - are still not ones to take lightly, Ludinus is still not one to take lightly, and if Liliana is going to be used by him to become a vessel for Predathos, that cannot be taken lightly. Bell's Hells may need to look towards enhancing their stats as well as their equipment, the harness is still a factor too which can boost them all with enough enchanted items at their disposal. An interesting one would be if Otohan's backpack ends up in one of the Hells' hands; many beforehand have talked about Orym being an Echo Knight but I would personally like to see Ashton take it, since it is powered by the Potion of Possibility like their own Dunamancy powers, it's possible (eheh) that they may align in some manner and could you imagine Ashton + 3 Echoes all raging to get All 4 Dunamancies? Otohan's swords may also provide unique properties for Chetney and/or Orym to use. Reincarnation or not I feel like that may be the Hells' next plan once it's discussed whether to attempt Reincarnation and they're off of Ruidus, gathering allies will likely also be something to prepare for for the final battle given how Otohan stated that they have 'enough Ruidusborns' for their plan. As a group it is difficult to tell if this will strengthen or weaken them, it could strengthen them in a 'never again' way like the Nein, but they were also very enthusiastic about bringing Molly back - it drove them through several arcs - FCG however often was the Hells' beacon of hope and the self-imposed attempted therapist, without that the Hells will either have to put it upon themselves to go the extra lengths or they'll close further in on themselves. If FCG does reincarnate I feel like it would definitely strengthen them mentally but if not I am not so sure.

It shouldn't come to a surprise that I will hold onto the Reincarnate potential so that the Hells can get back their friend, but rest assured I'm worried for all of them right now, there are crossroads ahead.

52 notes · View notes

ludinusdaleth · 2 months

Text

i feel like the mere idea of bringing up orym & ludinus and their entwined threads of fate is taboo, but i cant stop thinking about it.

orym is a rare, nearly impossible kind of protector - a guard, somehow not attached to a corrupt, brutal system. he just wishes to protect his home, his leader. but ludinus, via otohan, attacks this peaceful place. he turns the ashari cautious & agrieved. he turns the society of air into the eye of a hurricane. orym is turned into a widow. his title as guard is marred; he failed. maybe zephrah is forever marked as a battleground & graveyard, now.

orym walks across tal'dorei & marquet, slowly healing beside his friends, protecting them as best he can. but then he learns who killed his family, and she kills his friends, too - and him, for a moment, giving him visions of his dead husband, reopening the wound. he is in the eye of a sandstorm, tinged red by the moon. he is a pilgrim no longer. his attempt to be a guard has once again been thwarted. maybe you cant have peace if you're a protector.

orym is at the center of the goddamn planet, the leylines aligning as he witnesses his leader fall at the hands of otohan, again at the center of his home's wound, and ludinus, again pulling the strings. a protector far stronger, more capable, than him, adorned in feathers, alight with divinity, falls worse. his friends are flung to the far sides of the world. he once again fails as a guard. maybe a guard is too small in the scale of this world's forces to impact the tide at all.

and so, orym nods to laudna as she rips bor'dor's life from him. he shears his hair ever more, adorns tougher armor. he makes a deal with a hag, desperate for any chance someone he cares for could maybe fucking make it out okay - even if his vastly increased sternness to keep them safe pushes all of them farther into fear of their own. he sneers with unfathomable anguish as he sees ludinus at the volcano and wastes every one of his action points to rip his soldiers apart. he uses ludinus's harness. he takes the willmaster's power. he keeps pushing into the bloodred storm. he could never be a guard right. so it is time to be a soldier. to truly protect must mean to run to the source of all of it and end it once and for all.

all of the bells have been forged by ludinus, a horseman of war, but orym takes it most viscerally. he does everything in his power to stop ludinus, but in a way the elf has already won - or perhaps, in his need for exandria to be "saved" (as he percieves his actions will do), he's failed, but the bells have still lost. because this new generation isnt at peace. they arent even heroes. they are soldiers. orym more than anyone else has accepted that is his life, his death, his fate. there is no goal of his that doesnt end at ludinus. ludinus, who just like him, lost everything in a war involving gods. who has felt the way the world keeps turning, unbothered by what destroyed his society. who uses that accursed harness to take power for a cause. who doesnt want to force someones mind to get what he needs, or kill, but does, because it is necessary. who has pushed himself to the point he is a means to an end more than a person, willing to rip himself apart because he doesnt matter, his goal does. who cant see anything but war on the horizon anymore.

when the two are mentioned together it causes folk to bristle. the idea orym could be in ludinus's shadow is seen as a suggestion that orym is evil as him. but, thats not what i intend. it is a terrible thing, watching someone's gaze harden after tragedy. once a long time ago, as the gods fought across exandria, ludinus saw his world destroyed. and so he enacted a plan to ensure that would never happen again. that they would suffer, and mortals would thrive. but his plan was a god's foot, trampling mortal society upon society. and so orym saw his world destroyed. and he knows killing ludinus is how to let it mend. as the two march forward, in a second calamity, i can think of nothing but the first scene of exu: calamity, when pelor & asmodeus fought as avalir fell below them. despite ludinus's raging, incredible hatred of the gods, the biggest tragedy of all is that mortals really are crafted in the gods' image: and he, & orym, are most representative of that endless cycle of war, of this war, a failure of the past generations, of ludinus, to ensure a "true" freedom of mortals. of peace.

willmaster edmunda was a terrible person, but i fear she was on the right track when she spat at orym "some would like to live in harmony [with Exandrians]. some... know the nature of violence, that others like you carry."

he would never have carried it if ludinus had not dropped it at his feet.

#critical role meta #critical role #campaign 3 #orym of the air ashari #ludinus da'leth #long post #van speaks

57 notes · View notes

zeephyre · 2 months

Text

CRITICAL ROLE CAMPAIGN 3 EPISODE 85 SPOILERS

IM LITERALLY ABOUT TO LOSE MY MIND YALL

Where do I even ??? start ???

I haven't been posting c3 as the episodes dropped in...a while actually, like right before they went to the feywild. i have many thoughts and many feelings about so many things that have happened since then and I'll summarise them so I can get to THIS episode.

fearne and ashton - love their shard powers, they're literally royalty and terrifying, and i want them to make-out. i can't wait to see them go full primordial again in a real combat situation.

imogen - save her. literally save her. free her, even. i love everything about the call of ruidus when it comes to imogen on a narrative standpoint, but...God I get so worried that we're gonna lose her. I don't mean she's gonna betray the hells, but...ruidus could take her and then i would simply perish.

laudna - before i really get into wtf went down this episode with her and she who must not be named, i gotta say... im worried. very very worried. however, that fireball was objectively the best shit ever.

fcg - i can't even really remember anything stand out abt fcg except what Sam pulled last night so.

chetney - still the heart of the team, still my baby girl, still my favourite. love him to bits.

orym - i think laudna is going to beat his ass one of these days and im... even more concerned about that after this episode. his nana morri powers are cool as fuck tho... does that make him a warlock now? i know he isn't multi-classing but wouldn't that be cool

ANYWAY WE'RE ON THE FUCKING MOON AND WE GOT MOON LORE AND EVERYTHING WAS SHITTY THEN FUN THEN SHITTY THEN FUN AGAIN THEN REALLY FUCKING SAD THEN IT ALL WENT TO SHIT AGAIN.

the moment imogen reached out to ruidus and matt mentioned that she could sense where other ruidusborn were i fucking knew that otohan was high tailing it in their direction, and i thought they instinctively knew that too but they probably got so distracted.

we were travelling for hours and had a huge fight that almost got them captured (not to be confused with the OTHER two fights that almost got them captured) and I was begging and screaming and crying for them to get a long rest safely hidden away AND THEN THEY SPLIT THE PARTY WITH BARELY ANY SPELL SLOTS OR HIT POINTS AFTER BEING DRAINED FROM ANOTHER BATTLE WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM

(Sidenote, the willmaster really opened up the door to the further increase in moral pondering in a certain number of hellians. i do think using the harness is disgusting and hypocritical, but i don't condemn them for it, it just...makes me wanna vomit thinking abt what ludinus did with it. not to mention the HUNGER parallels between laudna and ludinus...its just not good yall. also??? objectively funny that fcg seemed weirded out by the idea of killing the willmaster, not just with the harness but in general, considering how many people they've killed up to this point)

idk if its just the inherent terror that an evil old hot lady can inspire that makes otohan so much more terrifying to me than ludinus. like, objectively, ludinus is a worse threat and could wipe them out EASILY but jesus otohan is like the damn reaper to me. it's the trauma from the laudna, fearne, orym massacre mixed with the underlying little drop from their uthodurn romp that let us know that resurrection spells are NOT working and idk if that got fixed bc of time passing or distance from the leylines but i really did not want to test that shit out in real time

thank...god that sam riegel is a damn genius player, that banishment of fcg and fearne was the ONLY reason fcg survived. and thank GOD FOR KEYLETH BECAUSE WITHOUT THAT CLOUD SPELL BELLS HELLS WOULD BE VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY DEAD RN.

God, "otohan has us. run." is going to haunt me just as much, if not more than the almost tpk. it just...shot me straight back to bassuras and the plan to run that just...immediately fell apart.

god fcg truly could have died there. and fearne would be captured. i know the hells would be too stupid and too brave and too loyal to leave fearne with otohan in their cloud form but can you imagine a world where fcg was gone, fearne was captured and the hells had to switch from recon to rescue... itd be stressful but pretty fun.

thankfully it didn't come to that and some good came from the shit.

ruidus is so beautiful. i was worried they'd end being trapped under ruidus while they explored (not that I wasn't on board with the detours, I wish this wasn't a time sensitive mission), but matt's imagery of the fossilized elven structure and garden made me sad but also happy that we got to see it.

i cannot believe that the stupid plan to shove fearne up a water hole happened AGAIN and it ended up with us FINDING A BACK HOLE TO RUIDUS GOD I LOVE THESE CHUCKLEFUCKS WHEN IS THE NEXT EPISODE MATT YOU CANNOT DO THIS TO ME. WHERE EVEN ARE THEY??? IS IT EVEN EXANDRIA???? WHAT DO WE DO IF IT IS EXANDRIA??? WHERE DID THIS HOLE EVEN COME FROM???? DOES IT CLOSE AND REOPEN??? IS IT STAGNANT?????? IS IT FUCKING STABLE?!?!?!?!?!

God...we could go back to keyleth and the others and actually invade ruidus without encountering the ruby vanguard. (that's if they're alright because otohan did go out onto the battlefield and we don't know what fhe fuck she did when the illusion fell through)

GOD. IS IT THURSDAY YET??? WE HAVENT EVEN FOUND THE RESISTANCE????

#critical role #cr3 #bells hells #critical role campaign 3 #c3 #critical role c3 #critical role spoilers #imogen temult #ashton greymoore #cr laudna #laudna #orym of the air ashari #chetney pock o'pea #fcg critical role #cr spoilers #fearne calloway #c3 e85 #cr3 ep85

58 notes · View notes

densitywell · 9 months

Text

thinking many ashrym thoughts rn. orym came back from issylra at his worst and ashton, somehow, has come out at their best. ashton wants to be a hero, to inspire people, to save the world; orym wants to get revenge on those who killed his family. when he's pushing the rest of the hells to go back to the key barely an hour after they've reunited, it's ashton who pulls them towards taking some desperately needed time to decompress.

ashton doesn't regret a single thing that happened in hearthdell. orym says they made compromises to get back to the hells. orym has admitted that he can't really grapple with one side of the gods debate because its the belief his family was killed over, while ashton is specifically exploring the ideologies most associated with the hishari. they both believe in people, and are dead set on destroying ludinus, and ashton thinks that maybe the gods deserve to die and orym is sure that they should live. orym is covering up, dressing in the standard armor of his people. ashton is standing out, taking the old things he loves and turning them into something new.

and yet the two of them, as a pair, still function the same. they move around, through, above and below each other as easily as they have for quite some time now. ashton loves zephrah, and orym is happy to have him there. two people who on the surface appear wildly different, whose lives feel like strange twisted mirrors, and yet who have developed this wordless understanding and love and respect for each other regardless. one that still holds - for the moment, at least - even as it feels like they're only moving farther apart.

#ashton greymoore #orym of the air ashari #ashrym #i am still rooting for fearne to be the person who gently lovingly kicks orym's ass a little bit and gets him out of his own head #but ashton is probably the best person to deliver that message and the most likely #(chetney is my sleeper hit for this though)#fcg would not kick his ass and honestly if laudna or imogen kick his ass in the near future it will probably not be gently. so #cr spoilers #critical role #fuck it main tagging it. essays on my desk by monday #cr #CRposting #it's good pain

159 notes · View notes

kerosene-in-a-blender · 9 months

Text

Clerics, Their Gods, and the Importance of Context

I mentioned this a bit in my tags on this post, but I feel like it's a complicated enough topic that it deserves its own post. Pelor and Avandra had wildly different responses to both being asked the question, "Are you worth saving?", but they also were asked these questions in wildly different contexts by clerics they have wildly different relationships with, and these differences had a massive effect on how each deity answered the question. Because they gave the same answer, ultimately, Pelor was just far more aggressive about it.

Pelor and Deanna have an at best chilly, at worst openly confrontational relationship at the best of times. She believes in his teachings, and she deeply believes in aiding and nurturing people, but her relationship with the god himself is fraught due in large part to the circumstances she found herself coming into his light in. They're able to coexist fairly well for the most part, but after she found out what went down at the temple in Hearthdell, Deanna's idea of doing what's best for people and Pelor's idea of doing what's best for people clashed, hard. When Deanna asked if followers of the Dawnfather were perpetuating harm in the world, he responded that they were doing what was necessary for the greater good of everyone. Pelor was focused on the good that could be carried out by his followers securing a nexus point; Deanna was focused on the smaller-scale harm that was being done to the people of Hearthdell in the process. And this is where their fraught relationship came to a head. She worships the Dawnfather and serves as his cleric because she believes in helping people, but in that moment, he didn't seem to be helping people, just some abstract concept of the greater good. So she asked him what she wanted to know from him in that moment: "If you refuse to help people, and in fact harm them because you exist, than what is the point of you, Are you worth saving?" And Pelor responded exactly one as would expect someone to respond to being asked that question in that way: he refused to even entertain the conversation. And in doing so answered "Are you worth saving?" with a resounding "Yes", because someone being worth saving does not require that they justify themselves to someone else.

In contrast, FCG and Avandra have a much more openly supportive, and most importantly for this topic, openly dialectic relationship. FCG has approached Avandra for guidance and understanding as they try and figure out how to navigate being a person with a soul who wants to have faith but isn't sure how to approach it. And as such they've asked questions of her such as: "Are you there?" and "Are you watching me?" both of which she's answered affirmatively in a way that reflects their growing faith in her. They've begun developing a relationship that, at least to me, resembles that of someone finding a trusted mentor to help them through a time of crisis in their life. At the same time as FCG's been developing his relationship with the Changebringer, he's also been well aware of Ludinus' plan to unleash Predathos; he knows the gods are in danger. And if there is one thing FCG truly loves doing, it's helping people. So he asks of this person he's building a new relationship with: "Do you need help?". Because if she does than FCG genuinely wants to help her. It's also important to note that FCG is the only member of Bells Hells who is pro-god in the sense of: "I have a full relationship with a specific deity and I don't want the gods killed because of that relationship". (The others are more pro-god in the sense of "Fuck Ludinus" and "The gods are a force of good in the world that would be lost if they were dead".) They had the Bells Hells vote on whether they were "Pro-God", "Anti-God", or "Undecided" (all being undecided except for the pro-gods FCG, and Ashton, who abstained) on the same day as the commune in which they asked Avandra, "Are you worth saving?" In the context of that, and them previously extending an offer of help to her, "Are you worth saving?" becomes less of a question of, "Justify to me why you should continue to exist", and more "Am I doing the right thing?". And because of the relationship they'd previously established and the goodwill FCG had built up with her, Avandra was able to calmly approach him and answer, "Of course." Of course she's worth saving, of course they're doing the right thing in championing for her.

When Deanna asked Pelor, "Are you worth saving?", she did so to challenge him, and with the implication that she had already come up with an answer in her head, and that answer was "No". When FCG asked Avandra, "Are you worth saving?", he did so seeking guidance and reassurance, and with the implication that they desperately wanted to the answer to be "Yes". And that really made all the difference in the tenor of answer that they received.

#'are you worth saving' (accusatory) vs. 'are you worth saving' (tentative)#it is also worth bearing in mind the different personalities that Pelor and Avandra have #he was never going to answer that question calmly #he's too no nonsense for that #avandra is at least of a disposition where a calm answer was possible to get under the correct conditions #which fcg then hit #critical role #cr3 #critical role spoilers #cr spoilers #cr meta #deanna leimert #fcg #the dawnfather #the changebringer

72 notes · View notes

pleasantmsp · 7 months

Text

Been rewatching some of the Mighty Nein campaign cause I was missing them and also I'm excited for their one shot soon! I've seen a few people speculating about the one shot so thought I'd put my thoughts out into the void as well.

I honestly don't know at all what to expect from this one shot. I don't even remember what the description was beyond that it has to do with the apogee solstice stuff. I haven't kept up much with campaign 3 for my own reasons that I don't need to get into now. However, I did actually watch a couple of the episodes during the solstice and got lucky with watching the ep with beau and caleb in it. But otherwise, I barely know what's going on. I have no idea what the M9 will be dealing with. My theories include anything from getting Beau and Caleb back and dealing with cultists along the way to dealing with the Cerberus Assembly's/Ludinus' attachments to this whole thing to stopping Tharizdun or some other entity from doing some fuck shit. Honestly, I don't fucking know man. I don't even really think any of that shit will happen.

I don't know if it's been confirmed that Caduceus is gonna be the one in this one shot but I really hope it is him. One of the things that's been bothering me about this arc from the BH perspective (at least that I've seen) is that none of them or any that they've come across has been able to argue for the side of the gods and the good that some of them can do. As someone who really likes the worldbuilding and rp that gods can bring to settings like this, not having that perspective represented has been disappointing for me. (This is not the fault of the cast or their guests or anything like that, that is not what I'm saying. It is their choice what characters they play and it is Matt's choice as the DM which NPCs/areas they come across in wherever they decide to explore. I'm just mentioning my own preference and feelings as it pertains to the one shot which is what I'm talking about). Anyway, I hope it's Caduceus because I think he will bring an incredibly interesting perspective on this whole thing. And I think Fjord will too but not to the extent that Cad can since Cad and his family grew up as worshippers of Melora.

We don't know the fate of Beau and Caleb and while I don't think they're dead, I really hope they aren't gone for most of this one shot. Beau is my favorite character in any media ever. I fucking love Beau so much. And Beauyasha is my favorite couple, I love them. I will be literally so sad if Marisha isn't playing Beau for this one shot. Like I'll understand but also I will indeed be devastated. Beauyasha is like my Roman Empire (this joke will be aging this post LMAO but its a good comparison honestly), I think about them A LOT. I want to see more content from them. I was at SDCC, I was there when Ashley said she felt like she wasn't fully finished with Yasha and that's exactly how I feel. The Mighty Nein's story was so good but the way it ended felt so long and then so abrupt (but that's another post). I will always be wanting more of Beau and Yasha's story. I want to know as much as Marisha and Ashley are willing to give us. So I hope the one shot starts with Beau and Caleb and how they reunite with the Nein and then get to business. Or even better, with them already reunited for maximum Nein time.

Those are my main two thoughts for now. I actually need to go to bed cause I got work in the morning and it's been kicking my ass these last two weeks so imma cut it there and check back tomorrow. If you somehow see this, I hope you enjoyed my ramblings lol

#critical role #the mighty nein #beauyasha #beau lionett #yasha nydoorin #caduceus clay

46 notes · View notes

nanyoky · 10 months

Text

Okay sorry if I just missed it but I haven't seen people mention it and it made my ears prick up as I try to catch up-

Prism bringing up going to the shadowfell for the ascendency festival REALLY felt like a deliberate drop that Matt gave her when they talked between episodes about what she could bring into the conversation. Which supports MY theory that we (and by we I really mostly mean the hells) are getting way too distracted by whether we think the gods are nice or not and are not paying NEARLY enough attention to all the pieces of this puzzle coming back to birb mom.

Am I the only one getting the vibe that both the Raven Queen and her followers, but also KEYLETH have a plan B that's already well into motion??? Perhaps the same plan?? Facilitated by my goth birb son mayhap?

Something about when they checked on the RQ temple in uthadern- they seemed much calmer there than any other worshippers and said something about "trusting in the matron's plan." Which, yeah, she's the goddess of fate that makes sense. But she's not the goddess of fate in the "everything that happens is her will so bad or good, it's what she wants and we can't question it" kinda way. She fucking loves Vax because he was someone who fought tooth and nail against the way things seemed to be going when he didn't like it.

And then in the scry on Keyleth we got, didn't she mutter something like "it wasn't supposed to be like this..."? Which again, yeah, you could def say "well duh- she was supposed to have the love of her life for longer than like three years, she was supposed to have more years of leading her people in peace after saving the world once already. A LOT of things were supposed to be different." But Matt usually doesn't give them *dialogue* in a scry, does he? So it REALLY rang !!!!THIS IS A CLUE!!!! alarm bells for me.

And it would make sense, right? Cuz I don't think we saw other Ashari come with Keyleth to the desert, did we? And she was a bit cagey with Orym about how she couldn't bring that many forces. If the Raven Queen, Vax and Keyleth all *knew* what Ludinus wanted to do- use Keyleth as bait to get Vax- it would absolutely make sense for her to be like "get beat up a bit, my already dead boyfriend shows up and chills in an orb for a hot minute, birb mom pulls the ace and we have the upper hand, no one else gets hurt. Sounds like the best plan." But then things are already SO BAD. and it's not like letting more people in on this mystery plan would really help that at all?? Only just put it in danger? But she'd kinda been trying to contain and control the chaos, and there's only so much of that you can realistically do. And she's a great leader, and a great leader doesn't *like* keeping things from people who are scared and looking for guidance, but sometimes compartmentalization is necessary.

AND THEN that's not even mentioning Mor in exu. And how she seems to be on a mission from the Raven Queen without being consciously aware of it. And how she was sent by Nana Morri - the FATE STITCHER - to exandria. Birb mom is making moves quietly through others and the evidence is scattered all over this story, but it comes back to her every time.

I'm just !!!!!!!! PLEASE SOMEONE TALK ABOUT "FATE" AND THE RQ INVOLVEMENT MORE I'M BEGGING THESE HEROES!!!!!

#this is word vomit style i apologize #I've had a hell of a few weeks and my brain is mush #critical role #campaign 3 #bells hells #me with my corkboard and little black feather push pins and sparkly gold twine of fate #i watch critical role now #i queue you all

84 notes · View notes

tangent101 · 10 months

Text

Just as a reminder about Bor'Dor...

Bor'Dor kept his secrets close to his chest. Laudna, Orym, and Ashton never suspected a thing. He questioned them about their friends, he gathered a bit of intel on them, and tried to break their morale with their fight against Ludinus.

Up until the moment Bor'Dor launched a surprise attack on the group we had Laudna making him tea, Ashton offering to add alcohol to it so Bor'Dor could relax, and Orym being quiet and supportive. They offered him friendship. They protected him. They took him in as part of their little family. And he spat on that.

Remember when Yu revealed herself and the group was unsure of what to do? Yu never attacked them. Yu just wanted the Calloways. They didn't have any desire to fight the others despite the fact that they were built to be a potential mini-boss encounter. They could have fought them and chose not to. And they were allowed to go free

I am quite certain that if Bor'Dor admitted he was a part of the Ruby Vanguard but that the decency with which the Hells had treated him has him questioning himself, they would have accepted him in or let him go free. Laudna might have been shaken at being lied at, but she would not likely see it as a huge betrayal because Bor'Dor would not have attacked them with an intent to kill them. And Orym, especially, would have ensured Bor'Dor go free in that situation.

That is not what happened.

Bor'Dor Dog'Son chose to launch a surprise attack on his allies and new friends. He chose to blame them for the wrongs that happened. He knew these three did not hold the Gods close to their chests. He knew they were questioning things. And he chose to try to kill them.

(Maybe we will learn that Bor'Dor was intimately close to someone in the Ruby Vanguard who died during the Hells' attack on the Key. We don't know, and won't 'til the next 4-Sided Dive.)

Don't go blaming Orym or Laudna (or Ashton though I've heard little negative tossed their way) for Bor'Dor's death. He was dead the moment he cast his spell to try and slay the others... and he would have finished them all off without hesitation if given the chance.

Even if they chose to keep Bor'Dor alive, you were not going to see him change sides, not without magical brainwashing. And honestly, death is a better fate than rewriting someone's brain to become an ally. The latter is what people like Ludinus do. So. Is it better for Bor'Dor to die by Laudna's spells? Or for him to dangle at the end of a rope after put in trial by the priesthoods of Vasselheim or the government of Jrusar?

Or what, let him go? Have him be unconscious but left with a druidic leader whose supporters had all died? Honestly, I'd not be surprised if he became fertilizer rather than risk his biting another hand that helped him. And even if he didn't... Bor'Dor would end up facing them once again and try to kill them in the future.

You can't save everyone. Sure, you can try... but if someone spurns your attempts to save them, that is their choice. Bor'Dor chose to die. Respect that choice, and accept that he is ultimately to blame for his own death.

#bor'dor dog'son #critical role spoilers

85 notes · View notes

aspiringwarriorlibrarian · 3 months

Text

I know I go on about how monumentally stupid Ludinus' Predathos plan is but it's because every time I think about it, I find something new to criticize.

Let's start with the obvious: Predathos has a fucking terrible track record of successful god-eating. It ate 2 gods out of a pantheon of 22 before it was defeated, locked in a moon and left to brood for millennia. That's a 9.1% success rate and nothing has substantially changed since then that would make it any easier for Predathos to get the whole pantheon before it gets locked in another prison and probably shot into space permanently this time.

Two, and this might be a "minor" inconvenience that Ludinus has already dismissed because he's put together a bunker for himself and his chosen, blowing up a moon is gonna kill millions of people. Granted, my research on "what if the moon explodes" is rudimentary and the other moon will probably stave off the worst effects of "deleting the tides" and "destabilizing axial tilt", but it only took a rock six miles in diameter to wipe out 75% of Cretaceous plant and animal life and Predathos is about to send a lot more twenty times the size.

Three, let's assume mortalkind survives Predathos popping Ruidus like an overripe fruit. What's next? Well, obvious it makes its way to the Divine Gate and starts chewing. Assuming it gets through, (probably with your help since it couldn't through the same protections on its prison), it's gonna unleash all the gods, including the ones that want everyone on Exandria dead. Sure, maybe the Prime Deities will try and stave them off, but they'll have their hands full with Predathos, so it would be ridiculously easy for the Betrayers to make sure that if they go down, those mortal bastards are coming with them. And well...humanity did just try to murder all the gods for the crime of "not giving us what we want". Would the Prime Deities even consider them worth saving?

Four, let's assume that Point One, by some miracle, does not happen, and Predathos isn't overwhelmed and shot into space like the last time. It eats the whole pantheon, and then goes for the final course, Tharizdun. Being less a god and more a force of utter oblivion, Tharizdun eats Predathos as an appetizer before ushering in the Epoch of Ends.

So yeah, mortalkind is fucked if Predathos gets out and this is why you don't let wizards have power.

#critical role #predathos #cr theories #cr analysis #cr gods #ludinus da'leth #is a dumbass

26 notes · View notes

utilitycaster · 8 days

Text

Ok I'm probably going to regret reinventing 17th century European religious philosophy here but:

Ludinus's issue with the gods as stated to Imogen and Fearne (and I will state right now that we know he was lying or deliberately misleading at points in that conversation so I don't exactly take him at his word, but let's assume he does mean this) is that they did not prevent the Calamity. I have the following questions.

Does he have any loyalty/feelings about the Titans given that they would have killed all the people in the era of the Schism, ie, the gods averted that Calamity? My guess is no, which means that whole avenue of discussing the Titans was something of a dead end.

How should Calamity have been averted? The Prime Deities during the Age of Arcanum largely let people do what they wanted, which is what led to one of those mortals releasing the Betrayer Gods. Should the gods have struck down Vespin Chloras before he actually did anything, Minority Report style? Can the gods even predict based on the actions of a single individual or small group, because my guess is they can't, particularly since within the current stream of gameplay they absolutely cannot [ie, the reason the Changebringer can't tell FCG to stay or run is because Matt Mercer is the Changebringer and he doesn't know how people will roll; you do need to consider the medium here]. But if they could: so you think they should strike down mortals on the basis of thoughtcrimes? Or control them? In that case, why is Aeor a problem? There's a lot you can argue is justified once you permit the gods to override free will and kill people over mere potential for catastrophe.

On that note, Laerryn both was an unwitting architect of the Calamity (shorted on energy and then killed the Tree of Names, which served as a core planar defense system) but also averted the worst of it. Did the lives she saved by preventing the rise of Rau'shan and Ka'Mort outweigh the lives she took by destroying the Tree of Names? How should the gods have reacted?

Should, perhaps, the gods have all sealed themselves away earlier - perhaps post-Schism? If so, then the issue isn't the Divine Gate, now is it? Should the gods intervene or not intervene? Should they remove themselves or no? It feels like the issue isn't that they distanced themselves so that they can do less in the world, particularly if you wish to kill them, but that you really want to fucking kill them and they made that somewhat more difficult.

How do we know the gods (for example) didn't save Laudna? She was hanged and she's still alive; Morri would probably count this as saving her and I don't see the same desire to wipe out all Archfey. [real talk I find most discussion of Laudna specifically to be...incomprehensibly ignorant in its refusal to acknowledge that everything about it is player agency related, whether it's the story that the cast played out for Vox Machina or the decisions Marisha specifically made in creating the character, ie, do you think Matt should have said "well you can't play a Hollow One because that would mean the gods didn't save you" not to mention the fact that again, we are playing this within a game system where the existence Deus Ex Machina would in fact fucking suck ass; but even setting aside those reasons why this argument is stupid, it's still stupid. It's like a layer cake of stupid.] Again: do you want more intervention or less? Killing them guarantees less.

I'm assuming the problem with the Calamity is the vast loss of life, in which case, what's the math on how many people have been killed by the Vanguard or Imperium in the pursuit of unleashing Predathos? How many more will die?

If the release of Predathos doesn't result in the immediate demise of all the gods, and the Divine Gate is down, why isn't this a recipe for Calamity 2? What was the motivation for killing the gods again?

Should we kill mortal diviners who do not do all within their power to stop terrible things that may come to pass? If the issue is that some people have power without working for it, why haven't we killed all the sorcerers?

Should we be listening to a single word from someone who consumes random fey to live longer, and that's just the start of the CVS receipt of atrocities?

Is there a point where one's deeply held beliefs due to one's own personal trauma become invalidated due to one's actions as a result of that trauma? If so, why is the limit for Orym "is okay with killing people who are trying, directly, to kill you (which, frankly, isn't even a trauma response, that's just called not wanting to die, which I highly recommend as a personal philosophy), and gets upset when people defend those knowingly collaborating with his family's murderers" and the limit for Vanguard generals "family abandonment/just. buckets of murder of innocents./child soldier recruitment in multiple different contexts/eating fey as biohacking/destroying an entire city and the surrounding forest for hundreds of years (ongoing)/imperialism in multiple different contexts/I was going to make a gallows humor joke about how while neither exist in-world they've violated the Geneva Convention AND the IRB for testing on human subjects multiple times over but actually those both are in fact written in a lot of the same blood/probably some others that I'm forgetting"

#i feel ultimately a lot of this fandom debate boils down to yes this is obviously fiction #but like within the fiction can you sketch out the implications of your argument or is it just a lot of abstract ideals that can't coexist #I don't actually expect answers to these; obviously the point is if you think there is an easy one there isn't #anyway i'm like if an enlightenment era polymath were a religiously observant agnostic who used the phrase fucking suck ass #cr spoilers #cr tag

78 notes · View notes

pennamenotfound · 1 year

Text

Hi my name is Ludinus Da’leth Wizard Hubris Ruidusborn and I caused the corruption of the Savalirwood through my wizard hubris (that’s how I got my name) and I have long silver hair that reaches my mid-back and icy silver eyes like limpid tears and I really want to contact Laerryn Coramar-Seelie (AN: if u don’t know who she is get da hell out of here!). I’m not actually Ruidusborn but I wish I was because the gods are major fucking losers. I’m an elf so you would think that since I was around Pre-Calamity I would be dead by now but I’ve actually managed to extend my lifespan by eating fairies. I have pale white skin. I’m also the Martinet, and I run a magic council called the Cerberus Assembly in Wildemount where I’m the Archmage of Domestic Protection (but I’m actually way older than the empire). I’m a wizard (in case you couldn’t tell) and I wear mostly robes. I hate clerics because they got handed their magic and but for some reason I work with sorcerers. For example today I was working with Liliana Temult to do a little ritual to free the god-eater Predathos who I actually don’t know that much about but think it would be fun to control. I chained up Caleb Widogast and Beauregard Lionett, and I orbed the champion of the Raven Queen, which I was very happy about. A lot of god-worshipers stared at me. I put up my middle finger at them.

#ludinus da'leth #critical role #bells hells #cr3 #my immortal

132 notes · View notes

cringefaecompilation · 6 months

Text

been thinking about my post again for what’ll happen after the weird moon shit gets fixed. imogen obviously has all her stuff tangled up in the main plot so as soon as that gets solved she’ll be good to just chill after the fact. orym’s also tied to the main plot with otahan and there’s not really anything in his backstory that could come back to cap it all off (like… is there any grounds for some kinda twist where orym’s shitty deadbeat dad is the BBEG? does anybody actually want that?) because imho his arc is about him realizing who he wants to be as a person, not about something in his past coming back to bite him.

chetney really has nowhere else to go with his character arc. they’ve hit all their bases and dotted all the i’s. he’s just along for the ride now. ashton’s titan (and dunamancy) stuff does apply to the main plot and possibly could lead to other story beats, but the hishari have been toast for decades and i’m not really holding out hope for a "secret hishari cult that’s been running underground in secret" twist.

laudna’s arc is obviously being set up for her to kill off delilah on her own terms (marisha said on a 4-sided dive that she felt uncomfortable with everyone else having to solve laudna’s problems "like she was their drunk friend" so um. orym opened a door to let delilah through and on the other side of that door is laudna with a steel chair LMAO), but i can’t really see that being a massive endgame thing. and while i am fully jonesing for a "reverse bard’s lament" moment with dorian, likewise i can’t help but reckon that the fallout of that would be a b-plot.

and sure, there’s been a lot of talk about space travel and underwater kingdoms but that all seems like possible venues they could go with in a possible campaign 4 or miniseries. so what does that leave us? fcg and fearne. and oh boy do we have a lot of stuff to be explored with them.

because with fcg, they have devexian. another aeormaton that is bringing back more and more of their kind. tons of which could also have the exact same care and culling programming that fcg has. and unfriendly reminder that the gods literally nuked aeor from low orbit, so with ludinus flapping his gums about "ew gods" this could lead down some dark roads for what devexian’s end goal for reintroducing these robots into modern society is.

and of course, my beloved fearnie, who for some reason had a vision of dark eyes glowering at her and a decimated feywild before her as she almost died and had someone sent after her who wanted her entire family dead. but for what reason were they wanted dead? weren’t they just trying to stop the apocalypse from destroying the feywild? why would the unseelie court have a problem with that? unless there’s something else going behind the scenes…

tl;dr i think that the endgame is either gonna focus on fearne or fcg, maybe both.

#🍃#critical role #critrole #cr theory #bell's hells #fearne calloway #fresh cut grass

30 notes · View notes