#and like. the whole publishing industry booktok thing | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

no-where-new-hero · 8 months

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☕ - booktok and I'm cheating to add the state of YA in general 👀

Disclaimer at first that I don't have TikTok (proudly) so that my experience with social media book discourse is through Instagram (which also has a lot of TikToks transferred over, obviously) but I'm not sure if the IG algorithm shows me different things from what TikTok would. Anyway.

I'm going to start with the state of YA actually because I feel slightly more familiar with this but also I think BookTok/Bookstagram trends are absolutely contributing to its hellscape. I may have talked about this in the post about where LMM would be shelved, but I think YA is losing its own identity. It's no longer about finding your place in the world or coming to terms with identity or dealing with themes that will help provide a bridge between childhood and adulthood. Romantasy abounds as much as in adult fiction, maybe just with a little less sex (though that's debatable). Contemporary feels reducible to a Pinterest moodboard (Portrait of a Thief, which I honestly liked in a lot of ways, suffered from this in my opinion). Fantasy without romance is almost nonexistent, and SF is more and more negligible.

All of these issues are perpetuated by BookTok. In a small video, there's only so much of a story you can share. Romantic tropes, aesthetic pictures, over-the-top dramatic lines sell well on there because they're catchy and cater to a romance- and visual-centric society. But I think it has given the false impression that you can stretch a skin of plot over these bones and call it an animal, and because everyone is accepting that this is an animal, the proliferation of such simulacra continues. Especially when the plot itself is none too strong.

You mentioned the trope problem, and I'll drill down on it because I definitely see this as the fanficification of published literature and the deterioration of rigorous plotting: A, because people enjoy it. B, because a majority of new authors grew up in the fanfic heyday and cut their teeth on that style, so they no longer know how to break free of it. C, because it's easy: you have narrative assumptions baked into rivals to lovers, in there's-only-one-bed, the coffeeshop au, etc. They're in fanfic because they're easy and provide a handy template for the meat of the story, which is the characters. But translating that into original fiction runs the risk of creating a predictable story. Predictability can mean palatability, which doesn't hurt on the whole. But it again inscribes this misbelief that if that's all that's on the market, that's all that people want.

The publishing industry absolutely is perpetuating it too: to sell a book now, you need to give comparative titles, "the books yours will sit next to on a display." There's more and more pigeonholing, which the fanfic style enables.

I could also get into the moral turpitude of some of the books on there (cough anything by colleen hoover not to mention HAUNTING ADELINE cough) but that will sound unnecessarily judgy, so I won't. Suffice to say that I feel sorry for anyone trying to "become a reader" by taking their recommendations solely from an app driven by popularity, shock-value, and the cultural capital of prettiness and success.

(Okay I need a last footnote to say that I understand that ALL advertising is driven by popularity, shock-value, and cultural capital. But you remember in the old days when you could go into the library and find a dusty book that was published in like 1990 or something and it smelled like it was growing mildew and it probably had a horrible cover and the author was someone you'd never heard of and none of your friends knew what the book was but you would bring it home and it would completely change your brain chemistry and everything you thought about the world? THAT'S HOW YOU BECOME A READER FELLAS. As a librarian in training, I'm going to die on this hill.)

#i still want to reblog your other post with gogandmagog because you guys brought up other fabulous things i didn't have time to address here #blake’s last braincell #blake’s mail #blake's asks

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nitewrighter · 2 years

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Why do you dislike Zhao's book? :(

I don’t dislike it!! Check my blog! I actually really loved Iron Widow! I didn’t phrase that right. I found her book the most enjoyable and memorable out of all the books I read for my YA class, but jesus that class got me so jaded about YA literature as a whole. My brain glazed right over the part where the OP of that post was shitting on Zhao and I quickly added that I liked their book.

But that being said, even if her book was significantly better than a lot of the YA books I read, I do think the whole YA market and ‘Booktok’ culture as a whole have had this really “ugh” affect on book reviews and criticism, and Xiran Jay Zhao definitely engages with that sort of ‘trendy, punchy’ marketing culture. I mean, you can’t really market your book on your terms with the publishing industry the way it is, and they’re able to do so in a really cool way by incorporating historical Chinese costume but it’s still this weird thing where the author kind of becomes just as much of a product as their book, if that makes sense. God knows I love reading books with certain tropes, but I don’t like it when tropes are forming the backbone of marketing.

#there's also something to be said about YA books being so amazingly diverse but having such painfully similar reading experiences #but I think thats its own discussion

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poetlcs · 4 months

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even tho I get why it's said (and I've lamented it before too) I feel this whole 'booktok is book fast fashion' thing is so overplayed because the publishing industry is not even comparable to the fashion industry, which is so incredibly detrimental to the environment and relies on child/slave labour. like yes I don't think people need to buy 30 books at once but we can criticise overconsumption without watering down words like fast fashion, or implying consumption is equally as bad as humans rights abuses in the fashion industry. also, I feel this conversation is doing nothing but center the focus back on western countries. like ur literally hand wringing about books while children are losing their childhoods to the fashion industry rn!!!

#and the people doing it are sooooooo self righteous too #buying 30 books may be stupid but its just simply not as unethical as buyin from shein is like be SERIOUS!#also. booktok is just the new booktube and people said the SAME THING a decade ago when booktube was getting popular #while actual ecological systems collapse bc of fast fashion and garment workers are literally losing their lives #ur annoyed someone has 3 SJM edition like just shut upppppp #making smth up to discourse abt

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theliterarywolf · 2 years

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If you wanna see some good book drama of late surrounding manufactured sucess I recommend reading everything about BookTok latest sucess story Lightlark, book hasnt even release yet and got a 6 figure book deal and a movie deal but its truly one of the worst edited books I seen in years... if i hear "Thingy or Thing" to describe stuff one more time i will cry... what killed me was how the book only got this, bcuz the author made good tik toks about the book but forgot to write it

Uuuggggghhhhh...

Yeah. Yeah, I've... heard of the Lightlark fiasco.

The biggest takeaway from the whole clusterfuck should be this: so in the Western book industry, we are seeing that a lot more instances are showing that all you need to do is be pretty, have money, or have connections in order to get published.

Doesn't matter if you can write or not. You just need to be conventionally attractive, have six-figures worth of disposable income, and have strong connections.

With the latter we of course know that that's how 50 Shades of Grey originally got published despite it being 'Find-Replace' Twilight fanfiction: E.L. James' husband had friends in the book industry.

Now this girl, Alex whatever, is coming in with the manufactured story of 'oh, my first book didn't even make it to bookstores but NOW look at me~ Anyone can do it~!*'

*Disclaimer - 'Anyone' meaning 'anyone who has a massive TikTok following with dozens of videos full of BookTo buzzwords, strong connections to the book industry elite, and tons of disposable income'.

I actually liked a thread about this 'author' late last night when my summer flu was keeping me up, so I'll reblog it after this.

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royai · 10 months

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As a person who only enjoyed tog I can tell you exactly why people like them.

They're really fun. Like really fun, if you just want a handful of hot guys a happy ending and a really shiny magical world. Then you get those types of books, they're good for what they are. They aren't gonna be the next R.F Kuang or Tamsyn Muir hit. Because they're just denser better marketed grocery store romance novels.

When I read books like that, it's not cause I want a great read. I want to have some silly fun and kick my feet like I'm a kid again.

i mean i have read acotar (and i’m currently reading and enjoying fourth wing) so i’m no stranger to the fun books being just yknow for fun. i think my problem is very petty in that i personally wish people would read more than…….. romantasy. because what people read really influences the industry which then influences what writers can pitch to agents etc etc. like. acotar has sold better than all my favorite books of the year combined and that tells publishing houses which kinds of stories they should be picking up. and i don’t like when the market is saturated with stuff i don’t find as insightful to read lol it’s just my personal preference. i read for pretty prose & i mostly read literary fiction so very character driven stories and these mass market “booktok” books don’t do it for me i guess? (also the whole concept of a “booktok” book is another thing i loathe but here we are)

#text #ask

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capesandshapes · 2 years

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I find it interesting how booktok evolved from being like "yeah this book is enemies to lovers and there's some really romantic scenes and good spice" to people using their faces and their whole chests to be like "YOU SHOULD READ THIS INCEST MURDER TORTURE BOOK THAT AMAZON DOESNT EVEN WANT TO ADVERTISE ON ITS WEBSITE. HE. CALLS. HER. A. GOOD. GIRL." And the person saying it is the one who wrote it.

Like, amazing.

I think it's so interesting how these little pocket communities of media consumption will form and people will want to not only capitalize on them but also stick out in doing so, so then they kick up what already exists in that community a notch or two and encourage others to do the same to the point where they kind of pollute the community and the image one gets from it. So then places like booktok where it's people genuinely trying to share recommendations and like show their love for the medium in general start getting oversaturated with this niche that's been forced along by over eager marketers who just want to capitalize on them and then drive out people who were once a part.of that community and subsequently discourage people from joining as well as a result, effectively seizing up their marketing machine.

Like past the cruel prince, acotar, and ice planet; there's not really been a huge booktok series after this push for spice and dark romance came in. There were some blips once every century like morning glory milking farm, and some people did come back to dunk on Lightlark (drama always drives a sudden influx of people to a community that rarely stay), but aside from that the culture of booktok just hasn't been the same and it's not the marketing machine it used to be because regardless of your feelings on dark romance, it is triggering to a lot of people, and believe it or not a good amount of people don't want to read smut (not that there's anything wrong with reading smutty books).

Idk it's just interesting to me that booktok was this massive thing that revitalized the publishing industry and everything and then people within the publishing industry struck out to utilize it and stick out in the space and now this marketing machine has been effectively kneecapped by extremism and the people it was initially benefitting from it. Like I can count on one hand the number of people I've seen recommending nonsmutty books that they themselves did not write on TikTok any given week.

#booktok #reading #bookish #book culture #I'M NOT SURE I EVEN MAKE SENSE HERE BUT IVE GOT THOUGHTS

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onewomancitadel · 1 year

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Okay so Big W (kind of like Walmart/Target for yanks) now has a book section for BookTok:

and now basically I'm convinced that the book publishing industry has moved entirely from traditional advertising to relying on social media and established media followings to advertise books - and virality right now is something you can capitalise on. This might sound banal, but the reality is that advertisement makes up an enormous chunk of most modern media's budget - it's alleged that half of Cyberpunk 2077's budget comprised advertising alone. (This is especially true of video games, but seems to be the case for film as well).

So the direction that advertising shifts to is really important because a) it speaks to the current state of the publishing industry and who is buying what type of books (e.g. romance has one of the most loyal and reliant book reader base), and b) it speaks to the priority of the publishing industry - e.g. there is more weight put on authors to advertise their own work, there is more of a push of works that can 'go viral' - whatever that embodies is somewhat of a black box.

The reason I'm sceptical is because chasing 'virality' seems like it's setting up some longterm issues with book publishing - writing for virality hasn't exactly bestowed journalism with any more integrity; it's actively diminished the practice.

Part of what makes me even more overall sceptical is that I don't think the trend of fic authors becoming published authors is an entirely positive one. I know you might call me crabs-in-a-bucket about it, but I think that this is bad portents for fandom in the long run. First of all - fic authors are more likely to have an established fanbase that follows their specific work than someone simply trying to get published. Fanfic is a way to get yourself noticed easily - and it is usually, almost always, borne of pure creative intent expressed in a shared community. If traditional advertising for the publishing industry is almost nonexistent now, then authors with established fanbases who'll buy their books are desirable. I obviously think that this can lead to bad things indeed. Does this mean that the way to become a published author is going to be through becoming a fic author? Does this mean fandom is going to attract writers who want to monetise their fanbase? Does this nullify the creative purity of fandom? It just doesn't sit right with me.

It no doubt seems like a positive thing on the face of it - very few make money off their writing, let alone to sustain themselves, and many view the publishing industry as a dying industry; that there's been somewhat of a renaissance with BookTok, BookTube, Goodreads, etc. is perhaps a blessing in truth. It's hard to think ill of writers who choose to pivot their fandom accounts and transform them into professional ventures - particularly if your ship is considered unserious, your fanfic embarrassing to talk about in polite company, etc. Being seriously published is a way to legitimise and justify all of that. (I'm sure if anyone is reading this they felt the 'creative purity' line was silly).

But I don't think it speaks to good things in the publishing industry nor do I think it speaks to good things in the future of fandom. I don't think that authors should have to have a social media presence to advertise their own work - the whole point of publishing is that you're providing a creative service in exchange for professional endorsement and operations to realise your work. It just seems unprofessional to me. I suppose from a comic angle, the best authors are usually the kooky and asocial ones - forcing authors into a social role feels borderline cruel.

The virality is perhaps the angle that most troubles me. I agree that genre fiction and work of its tangential variety often ask for a gestalt of tropes - and to say that the hope of virality isn't more of the same thing is silly - but there is clearly a difference between genre convention and creating something to be a work that makes people talk and is something that can move around quickly on an online platform. I don't think there should be the expectation that your work is tailored to virality as a form of advertising.

Word of mouth is the other way around - word of mouth talks about a work because it is good, not that a work is created to be word of mouth. Does that make sense?

I don't think any of this will be talked about for a while, though. For the publishing industry I think right now it's do or die, especially in the age of ebooks and people not being aware you can hire library books even if you can't buy them. But at some point there's going to be a discussion about the advertising onus being on authors when it should be on publishers, and the harm that virality will do to books in the long run, the same as it's affected journalism and Internet media. Virality in some ways is essentially large-scale trolling - it's not necessarily banking on something going around because it's a good thing, but it does catch your attention, and you want to be included in on the conversation whether it makes you happy or angry - and that's not in itself a good or justifiable thing either.

#stirring the pot

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aroaessidhe · 2 years

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this lightlark thing is like. okay, i read some reviews and it sounds like the book is hilariously bad, which is what i was expecting, and doesn’t really line up with how it was promoted, and has one (1) non white character (despite being promoted as diverse) (side note: i do think supporting authors of colour is always more important than whether the book characters are POC or not, though that doesn’t mean it’s exempt from critique). and like yeah she’s pretty rich and privileged, but despite what people are saying I don’t think she’s ever hid that?

anyway, the response of mass one-starring on goodreads, bringing it’s rating from 4 to 2 stars in two days is............interesting. considering a day or so before this situation blew up, the main booktok conversation was about the fact that taylor jenkins reid has written another racist book. and yet no energy has been put into doing anything about that from anyone other than Latine readers. barnes & noble has announced they’re only going to be stocking the top 2 bestselling childrens books from each publisher and something about not stocking hardbacks which is MASSIVELY going to affect marginalised authors and again, the only people talking about it are the ones affected.

like i don’t think alex aster’s career is going to be destroyed from this, and I support talking shit about a bad book, but it is. interesting what people put their energy into, as a whole

OH also the accusations of her being an “industry plant” .......that’s not a thing in the way people think it is. what IS a very common thing in the industry is that publishers choose books they want to put a massive amount of money into to create bestsellers. plenty of books get optioned for movies before getting published. I promise that has happened to Many of your white fav authors. Many of them were probably already pretty rich, too.

#laya talks #it's definitely devolved into just plain bullying over petty reasons not like. actual critique #however i do recommend reading some of the actual arc reviews dghsg #(also re: the tjr thing; i don't think That should be reviewbombed instead. but it would be nice if more people cared)

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getstickbugdlol · 2 years

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hi! I saw you mention in another post about booktok and publishing, if you're willing to share I just wanted to know your thoughts on that relationship & why it's not that great.

Or just criticisms on current publishing trends that you've noticed?

Like I feel like you have a lot to say, so I'd just love to read your thoughts on these topics ❤️❤️❤️

i have literally so much to say but i have to be careful what i can say bc of potential legal implications lol. i actually am toying with making like a critical essay about this topic specifically but my extremely general basic thoughts about no publisher or writer in specific are as such:

tik tok is not necessarily an algorithm that thrives on new content but rather content that is similar to other successful content

it is a platform that by design discourages critical engagement due to video length (unlike booktube) and serves you a lot of things like the thing you just watched

this drives sales in a way publishers have literally never seen, especially for backlist titles (books that published more than two years ago)

this is just me but these bitches on booktok have NO taste

booktok and booktube in and of themselves aren't necessarily bad/evil but i have noticed that anything that pops up and becomes an Online Community really quickly starts becoming unpleasant

I saw this when I joined the Book Community on Twitter, where it was in 2018.

Book Communities in recent years have become a lot more focused on the moral representation in books, whether that comes to representation, depiction of SA, etc. I personally quite disagree with this and I think there's room for things I don't necessarily like or agree with to be on the market and the point of every book is not actually to teach me a personal lesson about morality.

An important thing to note here is that Book Communities are largely made up of adult women in their 20s and 30s and skew heavily YA focused. Now I think it's fine for adults to read and write YA, however a lot of people who have made it their whole entire personality seem to be more interested in replicating the social structure of a high school cafeteria than a business

The publishing industry is also incredibly insular, notoriously hard to break into, and famous for only being accessible to those with generational wealth. This goes double for authors. As sales increase (literally all publishers had like RECORD sales in 2020 and 2021) the protections for authors and publishing workers alike are getting cut further and further. Most authors are working full time jobs along with being authors and being expected to do their own promotion etc

Have you seen those musicians who say their record labels are forcing them to put out tik toks? Yeah that's happening with authors too because it's an incredibly effective marketing tool.

In short I think it's bad because publishers aren't doing their jobs! They want tik tok to do it for them! I also think that the kind of communities that spring up around people who really love books tend to have a sort of puritanical aspect to them because it tends to be people focused on children's literature, which by definition moralizes, and they just don't know how to critically engage with literature intended for adults which aims to entertain but not to moralize. It's all around bad imo!

I fundamentally think capitalism is bad for art and nothing has convinced me of that like my time in the publishing industry ¯_(ツ)_/¯

I def have a lot to say on this so if you have any more questions please feel free to ask them! will keep priv if you want <3

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joyglass · 27 days

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have you seen any remotely promising book releases this year? seems like everyone’s writing and reading books only for the Tropes and it makes me kinda sad :(

i try my best to stay away from book socmed but there was this one tiktok i saw on twt of a lady demanding authors “put tropes at the start of the book!” is the intricate care and love held by people for their stories just reduced to “sharing a bed” or “enemies to lovers” now. is literature no more than your shitty YA smut. does this girl know what ao3 is.

when my autobiography is written people are gonna ask “does it have spice” and i’ll literally revive just to kms 😍

people don't want to read anything of substance these days and i literally have a whole essay on my notes app about how people don't want to read books that make you THINK. all people want is smut and romance and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that unless it's to the extent that it's the ONLY thing you read. crazy how ppl will evaluate a book based solely on smut content and refuse to pick it up otherwise. like this is what we've come to. not to mention effect this has on the publishing industry considering booktok and the industry feed off of each other. it's worrying!!!

#ask

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americanrecord · 1 month

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hi kelsey! it's nice to see you back!

just had a few writing questions for you as i am really looking to writing as a future career option/aspiration. i've been writing fanfiction for the past few years almost consistently - a lot of one shots and long series written - and writing is quite honestly the love of my life. i almost always look forward to sitting down at my computer with a coffee and lana del rey and pick up where i left my story off, or planning characters and settings and plot lines. i love most of what comes with creating stories.

quite honestly, i have faith in my writing ability. it's not something i usually question but what i do question is how manageable is writing as a career? how do you get your books published? do some never get published? there are so many anxieties and worries going into something like becoming an author and it's one of the things that really makes me feel i should choose a more "realistic" career option. i'd love to write on the side! but i feel like when i pick the "realistic" option there might not be enough time for me to pursue it as a career.

sorry if i'm rambling, it's just something i'm curious about as you're obviously hoping to get your book published (and i have every faith that you will). sorry if this comes off as rude too - it wasn't intentional :)

hi, bestie! it's nice to be back!! sorry, that whole getting a job thing and actually having to go every day and for all 8 hours is a real killer. i've also been busy getting draft 3 in order! so if i'm ever dead for a long period of time, either my life has blown up or i'm deep in writing/editing something. this past time was both!

anyway, writing questions, yay! first, i think it's great that you're looking at it like a future career choice/option! you should always keep as an option even if necessity has other plans. it's so nice to hear that you've found a genuine love for it, too. as somebody who used to write a lot of fanfiction, it's still real writing, and it's an amazing place for many writers to get their start. (truthfully, if more writers started out on ao3/wattpad, we might not see booktok so infested, but that's another topic) i also know that the fanfic territory comes with a lot of struggles, either people being demanding, judgmental, inconsiderate, and or just plain un-encouraging in their silence despite their consumption, so i love to hear that it's a source of immense happiness for you. i hope it stays that way, if and when you transition to original work, if that's the type of writing you're looking to pursue!! (i can certifiably say that while the writing, drafting, and editing process is tedious, particularly in the case of the latter two, i am having so much more fun.)

i also love to hear that you have faith in yourself! more of that! but i will say that being an author is really not a career you can simply elect. take it from me, if anybody could be an author, with any level of skill or effort, i would be an author. many more people would be authors. to be a career author (in the sense that you don't need to have any other jobs to support yourself), you have to have books successfully published, and—in most cases, a good few of them. it's pretty rare for an author to become a mega-millionaire (at all), but especially based off a debut novel. again, take everything i say with a grain of salt because i quite literally am not an author, but i would never advise any aspiring author to quit their job until they are racking in the amount of money that would allow them to write unsupported.

1.) how manageable is a writing career?

depends. this is strictly speaking in regards to a novel-writing career, by the way, because there are many writing jobs on the market that quite literally pay you for your writing. probably not enough, but...still. no publishing industry, just freelance/assigned topics and vibes. on novel-writing: i'm not published, i have no money, so i work as a paralegal. that takes up all my days, monday to friday, 9-5 (7-6), so my writing time comes from 6-11 on weeknights and then i maximize my weekends. some would say that's not manageable for a writing career, and...well, it's technically not, but it is what it is. the hard truth is that most aspiring authors have to squeeze writing time between shifts, late at night, early in the morning, onto sticky notes at work, on weekends, on time off, during holidays, etc. what is required for an author to have an authoring career would be not working or working perhaps part-time and having a living arrangement where there is somebody directly supporting you financially. be that a parent, a sibling, a spouse/significant other, a really faithful friend, whatever. that is the ideal. that, however, is not an obtainable reality for many, so day jobs it is. finding time in the in-between is your best bet. for me, i make the best of it!! it's still time, and it's so much more than nothing if you use it. it's not the most encouraging thing, maybe, yes, but it's reality, and as soon as that dreadful spoonful goes down, the easier it is to pick up, reshuffle, and find a pattern/writing habits that work for you. say you write an amazing novel in those small spaces and get it published, yielding yourself a little success, then things can change. doors might open, time might free up, and you could find yourself in the middle of lots of writing time!! think of that not as an impossibility but something to work toward. many, many authors out there, even ones with name recognition, still can't afford to quit their day jobs, because books aren't always highly profitable, NYT bestsellers, even if they do well. that doesn't mean they aren't authors, it doesn't mean they can't juggle a writing career (and consider whatever else they do the side hustle), or that they won't keep writing publishable novels in their downtime. it sucks, but as i tell myself: it's life. (as long as i live in capitalist hell)

2.) how do you get your books published?

i'll let you know when it happens to me! but also, jokes aside, it's a long, long, longgggg process. the writing, drafting, and editing processes, plus the feedback cycles, are only like the first half of the journey. so you finished a manuscript, yay! it's shiny, and perfect, and at the appropriate length, and—nobody wants it. publishing a book, traditionally (as in through a publishing house, not through self-publishing, which anybody can do), has as much to do with skill as it does with luck. you sent your book off to a literary agent at the exact right time it was the type of book they were looking for and/or it was what the market was demanding. for example, though i fear the market is becoming oversaturated, what is huge right now is romantasy (romance x fantasy). many a writer are polishing up their dragon and sex books rn and sending them in and likely receiving agents because readers are devouring those voraciously. it might not even be good, it might not be as great as *yours*, but it's what the market wants, and it'll be what the market gets.

and publishing is a whole iceberg of things, but the basics of it (granted, i don't know what happens behind closed doors because i'm only just compiling the stuff i need to start sending things out. i'll no doubt be running suicide blonde through another round of edits/cuts before it goes anywhere) are that you take your manuscript and your publishing materials and send them off to agents. publishing materials, which can be researched independently because real writing instructors will break them down better than me, typically include a query letter (basically, 5 second synopsis on ur book, the word count, genre, intended audience, etc, meant to bait an agent), a synopsis (slightly longer explanation of your book and it's major plot points, including a spoiled ending), and the amount of your manuscript they're interested in reading in their first pass. i was talking about this yesterday, i believe, but they'll usually ask you to paste anything from the first 5–25 pages (i haven't seen anything more extensive than the first three chapters) of your manuscript into the email body. the agent who receives your email will then read your query letter, synopsis, and manuscript sample (sometimes, they just ask for the letter, sometimes a varying combo of things) and, if they like your stuff, they'll request the full manuscript. then, if they like that, they'll offer you representation. if they don't, you'll get a rejection. (but still promising, because your materials interested them. either there ended up being a weakness in the manuscript or it just wasn't what they were looking for.) if you never hear back about asking for a full manuscript, it's safe to say its a silent rejection. you'll usually never hear back from an agent unless they're interested. and you can find agents on online databases. there, they'll say what types of manuscripts they're looking for. never send your fantasy book to a guy looking for nonfiction unless u want an automatic negative. and, usually, don't send your stuff to more than one agent from a company at a time. and never ever send anything in that they didn't ask for. if they wanted just a query letter and five pages, do not send them a query, 2-page synopsis, and the first three chapters because "my story doesn't get good until then." you'll get an automatic rejection and the question from many authors that, if your book doesn't get good until page 24, why you didn't start your book as of page 24.

but, say you do get an offer and all those logistics sorted out, it's the agent who is then responsible for taking your manuscript to various publishing houses and trying to find the best deal possible for your novel. many agents are career-long partners and most agents, if not all, want to secure the best deal for you, because if you don't get paid, they don't get paid. they will never see a dime for your work until you do. everything else is a little hazy for me because i haven't gotten there yet, but once things get picked up by a publisher and contracts are signed, books go through edits, design, production, etc, all so it will end up on a little bookshelf and hopefully in some happy reader's hands.

3.) do some never get published?

absolutely. yep! never. some books never get an agent (and agents are typically needed if you want to get anywhere, especially the big 5 american/NY publishing houses) and therefore will never get the chance for traditional publication. and some get picked up, but die somewhere in the process, and never make it to publication. that's why it's important (and i'm in the middle of breaking these rules, so i will be panicking about suicide blonde later, partially why i'm interested in writing a shorter standalone novel rn) to sort of write a novel, particularly debut/first novels that apply to the standards of the genre. for example, if you have a straight up, trope-driven romance, it MUST categorically have a happy ending and should probably fall within 70-90k. when you're an established career author, you have soooo much more flexibility to be like, fuck that, here's my 115k romance, but...that's a pro of having sway. by that time, you've demonstrated to publishers that you can sell a book, so they're much more likely to allow you to depart from genre/publishing conventions.

but, yes, some never get published. or, or, not right away. for example, people might have written four books before one ends up getting picked up. those other three dormant ones are referred to as trunked novels. often times, publishers like the idea of trunked novels, as it shows that you're not a one-trick pony who can only write this singular story. and, often times, a writer can publish that fourth book and then pull out those other three novels, re-examine them, and possibly publish them. for many authors, their debut novel that the world sees is often not the first book they wrote.

so there are a lot of anxieties, and i understand them all. legitimately, i do. that is why i would advise that, unless you are wealthy or have somebody willing and able to support you while you pursue your novel-writing career full-time, that you should always pursue another career to bring in money to support you while you write. it doesn't mean go to law school (unless that's your jam) and be a lawyer and never write again because at least you'll be guaranteed to bring home the big bucks, it just means find something you like enough to fill your days and pay your bills and use your free time to devote to your true passion until hopeful publication happens and your circumstances witness potential changes. tiktok/booktok, as much as i bash it, has also opened up a lot of opportunity for self-published work and writers too, so that is always an option and one that absolutely shouldn't be frowned upon. the trad publishing industry is known for being oversaturated with white, straight, cis writers as it is, so many POC, LGBT+ writers often have to take routes like self-publishing. it's not a bad thing, it's not a sign that you're a lower quality writer, and it does give you complete creative control over your own novel (i just recommend forking up enough to pay for a thorough, professional edit and get good at marketing yourself.)

i would never call writing/authoring a silly/unrealistic dream, it's just one that's not immediately available for many people and one that needs to be worked toward. so while you may need to push it to the side, it doesn't mean it's not there. like i said, scores and scores of writers wrote phenomenal books in their brief, squeezed moments of downtime. i've picked a full-time job, i have no other choice, and yet i make time to write because i love and prioritize it. things like children and other commitments might compromise this, but it's not something i contend with, so it's worth keeping in mind! use the free time while you have it and see what happens. even if i never get published, i'll never stop writing simply because i love it so much. if i die with a trunk of novels, then i die with a trunk of novels, but it's a sign i did with my life what made me happy, even if not successful.

so i rambled and am too lazy to go back to check for typos, so hopefully this was helpful and transparent and helped demystify things a bit! thanks for the encouragement and faith too!! please know that i go through moments of crisis and hopelessness literally every day, but i will persevere, and so will you !! (and u did not come off rudely at all, and if you have more questions, i'm always here <3)

#my writing advice is just to always keep writing #like fr just do it #that's all i tell myself in moments of doubt #✉︎ — confessions.

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daisywords · 1 year

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Can I dump my anxieties on you for a second? I've signed with a moderately large publishing company but in my contract I'm obliged to market myself on TikTok :( I have no problem being on camera, that's not the problem, it's how much this will hurt my soul. Do you have any advice on how to keep true to myself and my book? I swear every "TikTok Author" relies on tropes and 'spice' but I want to make content that is less surface level.

okay well first of all of congrats!

second of all: I think it's totally understandable and valid to have these kind of anxieties. Writing and marketing are two very separate skills, and it's rare that both are appealing to one person. The disconnect between writing the stories I want to tell and catering to market trends is something that I worry about too.

I'm definitely not the most qualified person to talk about this because I'm nowhere near close to publishing my own writing. (And though I have been involved in "the other side" of the publishing industry, it wasn't as much of the marketing stuff.)

That said, here's my two cents: I think there are certain styles that are best practice for the format and culture of TikTok, but that doesn't mean that the actual content or message has to be the same as what everyone else is doing. I'm not on TikTok so I'm definitely not an expert at what the kids are getting up to on booktok these days.

on the one hand, you're probably going to have to be more surface level than is ideal for you, just because you only have the time/attention limit for something shorter and snappier. But that doesn't mean you have to try and shoehorn your book blurb into tropes that don't quite fit just because they're the popular ones.

You're not going to be able to express the entirety of what you love about your book all at once. But you could probably break down various elements of your book that you love and talk about those individually.

If you're tired of the same old stuff all the time, chances are other people are too—not diving into every popular trend won't get you as big of an audience, but it might help you find the narrower but more ideal audience. In book sales/advertising, 10 people seeing your ad/tiktok/blurb and 5 of them buying the book is better than 100 people seeing your ad/tiktok/blurb and only 1 of them buying the book. Your job when it comes to marketing isn't to get the widest audience possible, it's to connect with the audience that's going to love your book.

That said, there's no magical way to target only those people, so to get views, you're probably going to have to do it in a way that's not your favorite ever. But I don't think that marketing your book as 'spicy' if that's not the real draw is going to do anyone any favors. If readers come for something other than what the book really is, they're going to be disappointed.

So I guess I would say—what do you love about your book? What makes you excited about it? Highlight those things! Be passionate about it, because you are passionate about it! And then maybe yeah, mix that with some trendier things to get the word out there. And you probably won't love it, and it probably won't be your favorite part of this whole author thing, but that's okay.

Just remember your target audience are people who like the kind of story you like to tell. They're people who get excited about what you get excited about. So imagine yourself talking to them.

Obviously take all of this with a grain of salt, since I don't really know what I'm talking about. But I am wishing you much success with your book. And also I'm so proud of you. And the fact that you've come this far is already amazing. And the fact that your book is true to yourself probably means that it will be lasting and impactful to your readers in a way that the "super marketable" ones won't.

#and yeah honestly a lot of things suck about the state of the industry right now and I'm sorry #anyway I wish you and your book all the best <3

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paperbackrevolution · 3 years

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“Book People”: a response

I have been thinking about an essay I read on Jezebel for the last while. It fit in so nicely with something I have been mulling over for months: readers. I mean serious readers. The kind of people that track their reading, that keep up with the publishing industry, that can relate to bookish memes, that overthink how their bookshelf is organized, and that seek out like-minded readers to interact with on social media. This essay, by Joanna Mang, uses a phrase for these kinds of readers: ‘Book People’. Mang uses it in a derogatory manner, and I have heard it used as such before though in those cases I believe the phrase Book Snob would have been more fitting. For Mang, Book People, are not the good sort of reader, but I want to unpack that in a bit.

Mang’s article is titled “We Have to Save Books from the Book People”. I actually only found it through a response written at Book Riot by Tika Viteri (“Back-Talking the Tone Police: Book People are Not Your Enemy”). Essentially, after rereading Mang’s essay a half dozen times (to try and follow the meandering argument and to seek what the point was) I think Mang is arguing a few things: that classics should still be taught in high school and not argued about on twitter, that English teachers bear no responsibility to encourage reading, and that Book People are bad for liking books a whole lot and have a Secret Plot to keep the publishing industry running. What any of this has to do with the title of her article remains unclear.

Mang opens her essay by complaining about people complaining on twitter. Specifically, people that are complaining about the classics they had to read in high school. The Great Gatsby, The Scarlet Letter, and Catcher in the Rye are all mentioned. Even more specifically Mang is upset at the redundancy of these arguments, that they come up again and again. I mean she is definitely correct, because once someone talks about something no one else is allowed to talk about that thing ever again. Ever. Right? I doubt it is the same person rehashing this conversation daily, more likely Mang has stumbled across or perhaps actively searched out these conversations as they are being had by different people. I mean as far as I know there are more than a handful of people using twitter, right? And if it is the same person dredging up this conversation daily, I have a suggestion: unfollow them. Problem solved. But then if that had happened, we would not have this essay to unpack.

Mang seems upset that people on twitter say that they felt forced into reading books that they did not enjoy. According to Mang anyone that disliked these books did so because these books are classics that they just failed to understand. Mang mentions that with a good lesson plan anyone can like classics, but perhaps they did not have a good teacher with a good lesson plan or maybe it is because they just did not connect with the book. Not everyone must like classics simply because they are part of the canon. A book’s inclusion within the canon does not mean that it is necessarily enjoyable to read or study for every single person. It simply means that it was influential in some way. I can recognize and value the significance of a classic novel and still also dislike the reading experience.

I did find it ironic that these conversations on twitter are doing exactly what Mang says she encourages her students to do: “When I teach literature, my goal is to give students the tools and confidence they need to attack and write about texts, to “talk to” the text rather than receive it passively” (Mang 2021). On these twitter threads we have people reflecting back on books that they were required to read in school. But because they are engaging with these texts on twitter it cannot count as the same thing? I have come across some fascinating analysis on classic books on social media that would have made my English professors proud. I fail to see the problem here.

Mang then goes on to speak about the notion of whether certain books should or shouldn’t be taught in school to avoid “turning kids off” reading, since this is often an extension of those twitter conversations. This is something that people in education have been honing for years. A quick google search reveals many theories, pedagogies and lesson plans that can help encourage reading. Teachers and other education experts are out there exploring options to encourage reading in their students. Why though? Why do we want turn children in to readers? Mang suggests that Book People have an odious plot to save the book-as-object which I will unpack in a moment. But maybe it is actually because it increases empathy? Or because it builds vocabulary? Because it prevents cognitive decline as we age? Because it is a stress reducer? Might even make you live longer? Improves general knowledge? Improves writing skills? Aids sleep? Could even help prevent alzheimers? I think it could be at least one of those reasons, especially since most of these studies explain that these benefits do not come from reading those three books back in high school but as a sustained habit over a lifetime. Though Mang, an educator, also states in her article “It’s not an English teacher’s job to make students love reading; an English teacher’s job is to equip students to read and communicate” (Mang 2021). Which I think is certainly true, but (thankfully) many other educators are attempting to go beyond the pressure to yield good test results and are still trying to help their students become readers. Of course, as Mang does mention, the formation of a sustained reading habit is based on more than a single factor (Mang mentions “parental attitudes, family wealth, the student’s disposition and other sources of stimulation”). Why this should excuse English teachers from even trying to encourage reading is lost on me. Further I also wonder what the point there is in teaching students how to actively engage with books if they are not continuing to read outside of school? Why bother with English class at all if this is the case?

I am not here to say that schools should not teach classic literature or should not encourage students to engage with the canon, I am here, however, to say that we can also all go on to complain about it on the internet afterward. If someone does not find value in these conversations, then they are free to tune them out.

After talking about education and American schools’ reading lists, Mang finally gets to the part about Book People. Mang differentiates between readers and Book People stating:

“A reader is someone who is in the habit of reading. A Book Person has turned reading into an identity. A Book Person participates in book culture. Book People refer to themselves as “bookworms” and post Bookstagrams of their “stacks.” They tend towards language like “I love this so hard” or “this gave me all the feels” and enjoy gentle memes about buying more books than they can read and the travesty of dog-eared pages. They build Christmas trees out of books. They write reviews on Goodreads and read book blogs and use the hashtag #amreading when they are reading. They have TBR (to be read) lists and admit to DNFing (did not finish). They watch BookTube and BookTok. They love a stuffed shelf but don’t reject audiobooks and e-readers; to a Book Person, reading is reading is reading” (Mang 2021).

Let’s dig into this before we get to the conspiracy. Just because I am baffled by the snobby tone of this paragraph, and I do not understand what is wrong with any of this.

A Book Person has turned reading into an identity: Just as many people do with any hobby, they tend to entrench themselves within it. People who hike seriously can and have turned that into an identity, they’re hikers. But just about everyone can walk so hikers should then not make their hobby part of their identity? Sometimes people really, really enjoy something and it becomes a big part of their daily life. What is wrong with that?

A Book Person participates in book culture: A culture can form around a social group. So, if we have a hobby group, which is a kind of social group, it is not hard to imagine that eventually a culture would build up around it. So then, yes, people would then also participate in that culture.

Book People refer to themselves as “bookworms”: What I am most puzzled by are the quotation marks, as if this nickname is something strange and new. The first known use of the phrase bookworm dates back to the 1590s and is defined as “a person unusually devoted to reading and study”. Yeah, it is a little dorky, but many hobbyists across various hobbies have silly names for the people of their hobby. Star Trek fans call themselves Trekkies or Trekkers and apparently train enthusiasts call themselves railfans. It’s a hobby thing.

and post Bookstagrams of their “stacks”: As for this, I think this is an example of a fascinating development among readers. Robert A. Stebbins, a scholar of leisure activity and hobbies, has long denied that reading could be considered a ‘serious’ hobby or what he refers to as a Serious Leisure Pursuit (SLP). He has maintained that reading is a prime example of a casual pastime, and even explores his stance in more depth in the book The Committed Reader: Reading for Utility, Pleasure and Fulfillment in the Twenty-First Century. He argues that reading cannot be a SLP due to the solitary nature of reading and the lack of a social world. To Stebbins a social world is a social network group made up of hobbyists and others connected to that hobby. Social media has changed that, however, allowing serious readers to form a social world and also find ways to make the act of reading more social itself. Book clubs have always been an attempt by readers to make reading more social. But social media allows these attempts to get closer to the mark. Readers on twitter host reading sprints to encourage people to read together at the same time. Others host read-a-longs on various platforms such as instagram to encourage a more engaging version of a book club that invites readers to read the same book section by section. And some booktubers (Book People on youtube), host live videos that invite their subscribers to grab a book and read with them. I will digress here for now, but this is something I plan on exploring more on this blog in the future. Put simply, what Mang is disparaging here is actually evidence of reading achieving SLP status under Stebbins’ hobby model. This is simply an active social world of readers.

They tend towards language like “I love this so hard” or “this gave me all the feels”: This is simply how people tend to talk on the internet? Especially amongst fandom communities, of which there is huge overlap in bookish communities. This is hardly exclusive to Book People.

and enjoy gentle memes about buying more books than they can read: memes are things people share on the internet. I am failing to see the issue with this. Again, not something exclusive to book people. What I am starting to see here is that Mang seems to take issue with internet culture in general, more so than with Book People.

and the travesty of dog-eared pages: Only Book Snobs care if other people dog-ear their own books. I am using the phrase Book Snob to distinguish between avid readers and people that find the book-as-object almost sacred. There can be overlap, certainly, but not all Book People see books this way.

They build Christmas trees out of books: No books were harmed in the making of those christmas trees. Oh, is this where the title comes in? Are we saving books from becoming christmas trees? I promise it doesn’t hurt the books.

They write reviews on Goodreads: I am confused by what is wrong with this. Mang stated earlier in her article that and I quote again, “when I teach literature, my goal is to give students the tools and confidence they need to attack and write about texts, to “talk to” the text rather than receive it passively.” How is reviewing a book not doing exactly that? Not all reviews are as aggressive as an essay can be perhaps, but it is still an act of engaging with a text rather than simply consuming it. Further, many Book People likely either have access to or want access to ARCs (advanced reader copies) from publishers and part of that deal is writing an honest review in exchange for the free copy of the book. So that would be them holding up their end of that deal. I am uncertain if Mang takes issue with goodreads in particular or with writing reviews in general.

and read book blogs: People that are active within a hobby often seek out other like-minded individuals. And beyond that most book bloggers are reviewers. Meaning people may be seeking reviews of a book to help them curate their reading selection.

and use the hashtag #amreading when they are reading: another example of Mang’s dislike of internet culture. People use hashtags to help get their media piece to others that may enjoy it or find commonality with it. They are using this form of metadata as it was intended.

They have TBR (to be read) lists: I think non-serious readers have TBR lists as well, but I think they tend to be more unconscious in nature. For example, a non-serious reader may vaguely know that there are some classics that they want to get to, or maybe the latest hyped general fiction novel. Book People are hobbyists, and if we used Stebbins’ model, they are serious hobbyists. They take their chosen leisure pursuit seriously and as such it is on their mind a lot because they intend to spend a significant amount of time pursuing that activity. So, it seems only natural that they may want to organize the content that they want to consume. It appears to me that Mang is more upset that this hobby group has formed in-group vocabularies. This means that only people residing within the group will understand some of the words or phrases used. This is a natural progression of language. You need words to succinctly capture the meaning of something. In this case, many readers have lists of books they want to read, rather than saying all of that it gets shortened down to TBR.

and admit to DNFing (did not finish): Are we saving books from not being fully read? Many of the books that Book People are reading are for enjoyment. If you are not enjoying something, why would you continue it? Do you watch the entirety of a season of a tv show that you are hating? No. Finish a snack that is making you want to vomit it back up? No. Same logic for books. To suggest you must complete a book simply because it is a book is more like Book Snob behaviour. This seems so common sense that I am again inclined to point to this as evidence of Mang’s distaste for in-group vocabularies more than the idea of not reading a book.

They watch BookTube and BookTok: This is further example of the community and social world that readers are setting up on the internet. People typically like making connections and further, making connections over something you share in common is natural. The internet made this easier, and social media has made it easier still. This is just evidence of readers seeking connections with other readers.

They love a stuffed shelf but don’t reject audiobooks and e-readers; to a Book Person, reading is reading is reading: This line is fascinating. Because following this, Mang’s article takes a turn toward a conspiracy about how Book People are trying to save the book-as-object since ereaders have threatened the physical book. And yet here, as part of her definition of Book People, she disparages Book People for finding value in ebooks and audiobooks. Mang herself becomes the Book Snob here, rejecting other book formats. Ebooks are convenient, you can have access to hundreds of books from your chosen device (I like to use my phone personally not an ereader). And audiobooks are great for when you are performing another task such as chores or driving. Both formats also allow people with disabilities better access to books. Audiobooks are perfect for people with visual impairments or who struggle to read. And with ebooks the size of the font can be changed to allow the book to be turned in to a large print book as needed and can even allow the font to be changed into a dyslexic-friendly font. To suggest that ebooks or audiobooks are not real books or don’t count as books is just blatantly ableist.

Let’s get to the conspiracy now. Mang claims that reading became an identity and a culture in response to the decline of interest in reading. She also continues on to say that not only is reading threatened by other media and diversions, but that ebooks and audiobooks distract from physical books. And so with the book-as-object threatened by television and alternate book formats, physical books became more precious. She even goes as far as to say books are fetishized. And then Mang says, “This could be why those arguing that classic books alienate young readers suggest 21st Century titles as substitutions: if we want to keep the book alive, we have to read, and more to the point buy, the books being produced now” (Mang 2021).

So let’s make this clear. According to Mang, Book People are people who have made reading an identity and revel in book culture. And Mang also already said that Book People “love a stuffed shelf but don’t reject audiobooks and e-readers; to a Book Person, reading is reading is reading”. But then Mang changes her argument and says that all of this is about the physical book. So, the people that complain about classics they read in high school on twitter, some of which are Book People, are all actually attacking classic literature because it may turn children off reading which would be bad because that would mean that less people are reading books regularly which is bad because then it means that less people are buying books which is bad because the book-as-object is precious and must be protected and perpetuated.

Riiiiight. I believe Mang conflated Book People with Book Snobs partway through this essay. They are not one in the same and by Mang’s own definition, Book People see any format of book as worthwhile. Meanwhile a Book Snob would uphold the physical book-as-object as the supreme format. So saying that Book People are behind this conspiracy simply does not hold up under scrutiny. Not that this conspiracy should carry much weight at any rate.

But then Mang wipes that argument away, saying that Book People are not that practical. That actually their purpose in complaining about classics books on twitter is solely to revolutionize American schools’ text selection policy. Further Mang seems to think that people ranting about their least favourite classic novel on social media is all about putting pressure on teachers and public education to shape their students into model human beings. When in reality, sometimes one simply needs to whine about a bad book, even if it’s a classic.

At the end of all of this, I am left simply confused about this essay. Firstly the title: “We Have to Save to Save Books from the Book People”. What books are we saving from Book People and how exactly do we go about doing it? Are we saving classics? Or are we saving the current school reading list books? Or physical books? Or ebooks? Perhaps it is that books are somehow being ruined by those that worship that book-as-object? I propose that Mang just thought it sounded good, especially seeing as how it does little to pertain to the wandering argument of this essay.

Secondly, I am also confused about what exactly is the point of this essay. The three main conclusions reached at the end of it seem to be that 1) arguing about classics on twitter does not impact text selection policy in schools, 2) teachers bear no responsibility in encouraging their students to make reading a habit, and 3) that books are not sacred objects. So what?

While I disagree with Mang’s essay, I do still find value in some of the points she brings up, and in her definition of Book People. I have been casually curious about the leisure studies, and where committed readers fit within leisure studies, for the last couple of years. Mang may not understand what she sees before her, but she did see something. It is that insight that has finally spurred me to dig into the social world of committed readers, or as Mang calls them, Book People.

#booklr #book blog #readers #bookworm #bookstagram #booktube #amreading #bookish #book people #paperback revolution

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