#fandom destiel is not the same as destiel we associate with the show

[eisforeidolon]

I feel fans should be able to interpret shows and characters any way they want but it really bothers me that shippers die on the hill of Dean is such a closeted bi sexual and Sam is the biggest heterosexual out there. I love these characters because they are extremely toxic and codependent on each other. The story would not be the same with out that. Why would anyone look to Supernatural to be their all time gay representation love story when it most obviously is not. it just blows my mind how out there Destiel shippers are and how much they truly hate this show and hate Dean without even realizing it. I need someone to figure out how we can get rid of them from this fandom...LOL

Yeah, IDGI either. Fandom is supposed to be about just having fun however you want with the building blocks from the canon + your imagination. It's not even the main point that they're hilariously bad at interpretation, project too hard onto the characters to even see them, can't understand context to save their lives, pointedly ignore a million things that directly contradict their agenda, and too much of their so-called proof is actually gross backwards stereotypes about sexuality and masculinity (neither of which they seem to understand very well at all). If they were just having fun with it, who the fuck cares? Sure, it's annoying, but a lot of fandom is annoying because it is so specifically tailored to things not everyone is gonna like. There are other canons with fans who are fine admitting they just like playing in the canon world but not the canon itself that much.

No, the problem is hellers are not content to just enjoy their non-canon interpretations in fandom. They feel entitled to flood any and every tag associated with the show, trying to demand their interpretations be considered indisputably canon fact because ... reasons ... and anyone who doesn't agree with them is A Bad Person because ... they say so. Their ship is the greatest love story (n)ever told, the best representation evar in media! It's the only important thing about SPN - and if they couldn't change the canon, they can change the fandom narrative! The fact there's actually no there there under their overblown thousands upon thousands of words of inept meta is why the very suggestion it's not canon, that someone doesn't see it as the greatest thing ever, that maybe Dean is actually just a heterosexual instead of putting on an elaborate performance of one or even that Sam might not be the straightest character ever written? Is taken as an attack upon their self-declared status as the real main audience. Which makes sense, because they never were. SPN was anything but subtle as to what its actual focal relationship was.

To some extent I get how they echo-chambered each other into believing their ship was/would be a thing in canon. If you just look at the size of the piles on piles of cherry-picked nonsense they accumulated over the years without actually engaging your brain to see how variously flimsy, out of context, or how many other more sensible interpretations there were for any of them? If you wanted to believe and surrounded yourself with others who did, too, and kept talking each other up, spending way more time doing that than watching the show? It's no wonder some of them ended up with really skewed expectations.

What I don't get is how they're still going this long after the show ended. SPN is over and there's no more 'Well, next season for sure!' to promise themselves. There are increasingly more stories out there now in a variety of media which are centering deliberately, openly LGBT+ characters and relationships they could invest in championing! Hell, just saying screw canon and burying themselves in writing their idea of "better" fanfic is a perfectly reasonable way to deal with disappointment, no matter how self-inflicted. Instead, they're still here making up elaborate conspiracies about how SPN was something other than what it blatantly obviously always was - because admitting they were wrong and the only thing they ever liked about it was their own OOC fanfic very, very loosely based off of it? Well, that's more than a bit embarrassing in light of how long they spent campaigning and how vehement they were about it totally being not just A Thing but The Most Important Thing Ever. So I don't know what would actually get them to move on, they clearly love being miserable and wrong and pretending to be martyrs over it far too much for me to comprehend.

#destihellers #fandom issues #faux social justice

[mlobsters]

supernatural s14e1 stranger in a strange land (w. andrew dabb)

pre-ep recap being ac/dc shot down in flames much better fit than metallica's nothing else matters from 13x01 vibe-wise and matching the pace of the clips. good job, guys. and smooth segue to it being on in the car

s14e1 / the matrix

wtf jackles, what is this speaking voice/cadence. reminds me of keanu reeves?? usually when i make really out there sound associations, i'm a little high. but that is not the case today. he's acting more like an agent than neo, but getting the keanu vibes :p i can't think of what movie specifically i'm thinking of. the devil's advocate and constantine are the other two keanu movies i've seen a bunch, but i dunno

never good when i'm pulling a clip in the first few minutes 🥴 gonna be a 2-3 day watch i'm guessing.

also don't really understand the styling choices. i get that it helps make a big visual difference between michael and dean, but like. dude wasn't dressing like this old timey fancy man with a flat cap in the au world. is this 20s-ish? never seen peaky blinders but this seems kinda similar? reading about collar pins and bars now. lol

is this the grief beard i've heard about. well maintained, if so

MARY Sam, we’re gonna find him. Ketch is working that thing in London. Castiel is in Detroit. I know it’s been three weeks since Dean… Something will break. It has to. SAM Yeah. Yeah, you keep saying that.

so like why does sam need to be in charge and involved in this vampire thing with this bunker full of people? they were fully self organized and fighting before they came here. even if sam is de facto leader for whatever reason; delegate, my guy. no help to anyone if you're not sleeping. call jody in, i bet she could talk some sense into him. also vaguely funny that we're all Team Family Go! but the family i connect with the most for them is jody and her girls

CASTIEL Does any demon know where Dean Winchester is? KIPLING I’m sorry, did you just say you lost a Winchester? Because, one -- that’s… interesting. And, two, how is that you lost Dean? I thought the two of you were joined at the… [Kipling glances down in a suggestive way.] …you know, everything.

in a way i wish i could have watched this without any knowledge of fandom because my knee jerk response is, ew. because i just don't see anything between dean and cas, i have a hard time grasping they're even close, i've just tried to accept it because the show tells us all the time. but maybe i could have come around to it more if i didn't know about the screaming zeitgeist that is destiel. or maybe i'd have the same reaction, i don't know. but anyway perpetually disgruntled knowing that my reaction is always colored somewhat due to fandom. i try to watch objectively but i know my feelings on things outside the show color my feelings of stuff inside the show

oh, cas. what have you gotten yourself into this time.

mmmk

SISTER JO Why would he say “yes” to you? MICHAEL Love.

short and sweet

man i know jackles is trying to do something different but i do not enjoy the way he's speaking as michael. ok now i'm getting umm. brad pitt in interview with the vampire?? like when he's talking to what's his face. for the interview. lol. christian slater! kind of slow, flat fairly emotionless narration.

um. how in the world is nick's soul in his vessel? didn't crowley remake it or whatever? or did he not die at any point in the ... 7 years intervening between lucifer dumping him in s5 and getting popped back in during s12

from 12x13 CROWLEY I managed to pervert that spell. So your essence wasn't sent back to the cage, but instead, we found your discarded vessel a few years ago… repaired it, improved it, making it a fitting final home for the real you.

whatever, man. nothing makes sense to me anymore. also thinking about jimmy novak called being possessed by castiel like "being chained to a comet" - for all those years

NICK Ow. I don't get it. I don't understand how Lucifer could die and I could live. SAM Yeah, um… I think that maybe it's because the archangel blades were made to kill the archangel inside a-and not the person they, uh -- NICK Possesses and uses to almost end the world twice?

sure. SURE. that makes sense. not at all how anything else ever works on this show, but sure! i mean, i love mark pellegrino too but come on, guys.

SAM Stop saying that, please. MARY What? SAM “It's gonna be fine,” that everything's gonna be fine, we're gonna find Dean, and -- MARY We are. SAM You don't know that. Dean's gone, and we have no idea where he is or -- or if he's even still alive. You know, Michael could have… burned him out or… worse, and… MARY I know. I know he's out there, scared and alone. I know. I know he might never come back. Never think I don't know that. But -- I can't -- I have to think about the good, Sam, because, if I don't, I will drown in the bad. For Dean's sake, I can't do that. We can't do that.

that's fine and reasonable but it's also reasonable that sam doesn't want to hear a baseless placation.

jack getting a grandpa bobby now too apparently

completely zoning out on this demon monologuing. why did they bring the girl along who isn't a hunter. what happened to the devil's trap bullets? and couldn't they make the bullets made out of the angel blades they had on the au world? because with all the dead angels they surely must have a stockpile. wouldn't get this several minute action sequence with fake tension though so

SAM Enough! There will be no new King of Hell. Not today. Not ever. And if anybody wants the job, you can come through me. Understood? (breathing heavily) So, what's it gonna be?

lol okay

SAM It's the -- It's the magic egg that kicked Lucifer out of the President. I thought we could use it on Michael, but -- Ketch can't find it. So, that's another dead end, which is just awesome.

i'm glad the show remembered because i completely forgot about that thing. thanks for preemptively ruling it out

CASTIEL Sam, are you all right? SAM Yeah, I've been better. I've been worse. You? CASTIEL I'm -- I'm just sorry. I should never have gone to those demons. SAM Cass, I -- No, I-I-I don't blame you. I… Honestly, I-I wish I'd have thought of it first. If it meant finding Dean, I-I'd work with -- I'd do anything.

❤️ take what i can get. (still need to sleep, sammy)

MICHAEL Now, you -- you know exactly what you want. You don't pretend to want to help people or save the world. Your want is pure and simple and clean. And that's why you are worth saving. That's why we are going to work so well together. Because you -- you just want to eat.

LOL what. michael loves vampires!

!! omg lol i just reread my 13x23 with my whole "can't kill michael now that he's wearing dean" is that the whole reason we get pellegrino back as nick, so we can find out that archangel blades don't kill the vessel?? 😂

#supernatural #spnwatch #spn 14x01 #spnwhinge #spn clip #andrew dabb

[lamiasage]

Your work reminds me of Euclase, who used to be in the fandom long ago before she went pro. Except it looks like you do paintovers and smudging, which is like Petite-Madame, another great artist who used to be in the fandom. You fit in the middle, but either way it's lovely to see beautiful art being made for our favorite characters.

Oh hey, thank you! 😊💜

I have been in fandom when they were around still and I definitely took some inspiration from their art! I admire Euclase's painterly soft but still very precise realism and the work of color/glow in her later spn paintings and I have definitely looked at a few of her tutorials to figure out my own style (this one for example). I also always loved Petite-Madame's Destiel art, especially the highlighting, and well, I will never forget her beautiful Twist and Shout fanart.

About the latter part of the ask, I actually don't do smudging at all :D I tried it once here, but the smudge tool really overwhelms me. I instead blend with the pipette tool and a soft brush (or, if I keep it more painterly, with a textured brush). It just personally works better for me! And about the paintovers, I actually had to google what that means, but I think as I understand it I don't do that either (I think?) xD I did paintovers back in 2014/2015 when I first eased my way into digital art but did then stop painting completely since it felt like I was cheating and it catapulted me into a 5-year long art block until I felt brave enough to pick up a pen again (sorry if that's too personal and I am being awkward) 😅 I do sometimes stay very close to a reference or a screenshot of the show but I don't paint over it, I just try to recreate it and make it more pretty (in my personal perspective, that's of course very subjective) :D I also try to "loosen" up more with the 'realism' aspect of things lately, and just keep it more textured and painterly, or do some doodles and sketches, and go more nuts with the colors, because I always have the feeling that my perfectionism limits me in what I allow myself to paint (I say while I work on a painting that references a screenshot of the show, but I am trying, I swear, if you look at my latest art! Sometimes a more 'realistic' attempt at painting sneaks into it but I definitely want to be more flexible and upload more stylized stuff as well 😂)

I think when we are talking about styles, I also have to mention other awesome artists in this fandom that I take a big chunk of inspiration from and that influence my own style and processes as an artist :D For example, Winchester-Reload, who obviously is just 💚💙 with her paintings and shading (those cheekbones!!! the beards!!!) and especially the facial expressions and emotions transferred by her art, Diminuel with the highlights and blush and absolutely adorable cuteness, and Clickbaitcowboy with his peak gender art and the way he draws bodies and does stylized illustrations that look very realistic at the same time (how??? sir your art is so pretty). Also Scenteddean, Artmetica, C-Kaeru, Feredir, Werepires, Free-To-Be-Impaled, Naughtystiel, and so so so many more artists who created beautiful art for this fandom and who are just so talented <3

Sorry if my answer was a little bit on the long side! Again, thank you so much. I think it's such a great compliment to be associated with Euclase's and Petite-Madame's styles whose art I definitely looked up to growing up in the fandom 😳 And thank you for being so lovely, I hope my 4 am answering attempt does your ask justice 😭💜

#ask

[keagan-ashleigh]

I have some new followers so I guess it's time to do another little presentation post 😌

About me

Hi! My name is Keagan, but also Clémentine (my birthname - you can use both, you can call me Clem too). I am currently 34, I live in France (in the south), and I am a graphic designer and illustrator - and hopefully in a couple months aspiring web designer 🤞

I am a proud bisexual & greysexual (I'll often just say "ace").

And I am nonbinary: I think genderfluid - I identify as woman sometimes but many other times this just makes me feel like it's not really me, it doesn't quite fit. I identify sometimes as a woman - I identify with what women experience also, I am a feminist and my experience is one of a woman, and although I don't identify as woman most of the time I feel to be part of it - and most of the time as nothing at all.

Edit, I forgot the pronouns : she/they (elle/iel or ael in french); I don't have preferences, but I've been called "she" all my life and very rarely experienced being addressed with "they" so I'd really like people to use it more. 😊

Also I am disabled: I am autistic - not diagnosed yet but I have just started the process of getting it diagnosed. I also have dyscalculia, and chronic pain (my squeleton is sliiightly crooked, not much but enough to cause me immense pain 🥲 - in knees, back, and hips) - I also have generalised anxiety disorder and depression. And I am short-sighted and I have tinnitus, and a couple other things.

I have been touched by a bitch of a fairy at birth I tell you 😂

I am very open about all of this so if you happen to need someone to talk to about those subjects, I'm here, I can't provide answers but I can share my experiences.

About my blog(s)

I have a blog for my art here: @keagan--ashleigh ; both are me, I've just put an extra dash as to not confuse people when they see 2 usernames interacting with them 😅

I have been on this blue hell since 2012, at first I had an aesthetic blog but it very quickly became a social justice blog, and I created a side blog (this one) for fandoms, at first mainly spn, then BBC Sherlock, and although I kept the title and decorum it returned to its multifandom/multisubjects state.

I also talk about other subjects occasionally, it's not a one-subject blog, I often blog & reblog funny stuff, social justice, etc.

I occasionally post in french but I have associated Tumblr with english strongly - I will maybe introduce a bit more of french in here idk.

I usually liveblogs Eurovision, the past years I have been doing that on Twitter bc it's hard to livetweet and liveblog at the same time but if twitter goes down I'll come back here lmao. And on twitter I also sometimes livetweet Top Chef in french but I might to that in here as well if I can't on Twitter idk - is there an audience for that here idk 😅

Most of my french specific stuff where on twitter, like I said I have associated tumblr with english and international stuff, and I don't know how I'll gonna get my french internet experience back in tumblr, we'll see but maybe you'll see more of my french specific stuff in the future, or I'll make a third side blog idk yet.

Worth to note I have a tagging system on both my blogs - and I tag the spoilers (unless for some reason I forget).

I often vent in the tags - it was, in this regard, better when ops couldn't see the tags in their notifications :o) I feel exposed now 😭

My ask box is always open.

About fandoms and opinions

My fandoms are: BBC Sherlock, Supernatural, Marvel, Our Flag Means Death, What We Do In The Shadows, Good Omens, Doctor Who, etc

My favorite ships: johnlock, destiel, Aziraphale & Crowley, lokius, nandermo, gentlebeard, 13th & Yaz, etc

About opinions and discourses:

I am a ship and let ship kind of person but that doesn't mean I approve of everything. I will never use the terms proshipper/anti because those words have been bastardised and the definition changes everytime I see it show up - so it's better if I just tell you what I like and don't like: I do not like incest ships, I do not like pedo ships, I am not against the fact of writing about those things but I don't like them being romanticised and glorified even. And no I don't think "it's ok because it's fiction" - whether it be fanwork or else what is written or shown in fiction has an impact on the real world, always, in a positive or negative way.

I will not engage in discourses about that though because it is tiring and useless.

I will not engage in ageist discourses either because - yes I think it's stupid to say fun has an end for people when they reach 30 but time will prove ageist people wrong and it's just sound stupid to me to have fights with literal kids over this. I'd rather enjoy my shit in my corner and not bother or be bothered by any of this.

I see a lot of ageism and condescendance from older people as well and I don't like that, being young doesn't mean people's inputs and opionions are wrong. About the fact joy must end at 30, yes, but cutting the discussions short (on various subjects) with "young people are so prude now / they don't enjoy anything/ yadda yadda"... no. No let's not do that. Times are changing and maybe some things we thought were ok then are not ok now and before we shut them up I think maybe we should listen and question what we think is true, let's not become the boomers of this generation ok, let's keep our minds open and be critical of ourselves first, we might at worst expand our worldview. And of course it goes both ways. Respect goes both ways.

At large, I will mostly enjoy my stuff and not engage with negativity, i do not have the mental health to deal with that, if people are wrong let them be wrong in their corners. Not saying I will never engage in any sort of argument but I'd rather stay away from most (especially those 2 I mentioned). I will never stop criticise mofftiss and Sherlock s4 though 😂

I also do not like ship hate.

I am uncomfortable with shipping real people but I am not against it of course do as you please as long as you don't overstep & be rude with the real people you're shipping.

And also, if I see someone implying a real person is "queerbaiting" because they appear queer & bully them into coming out I will virtually slap you in the head, ok, real people don't queerbait, period.

Last thing: I stand with the L, the G, the B, the T, the A, and all the other letters of that beautiful acronym so if you don't include trans people and ace people: please begone. :)

And also I try to be inclusive, I will not overstep and speak above other communities but I will try my very best to listen and forward those people's voices. I will not engage in discussions/arguments I am not meant to be a part of. I will try my best to take my part in making bigots feel unwelcome.

This blog, and all my accounts here and elsewhere are meant to be safe spaces for LGBTQIAP+, POC, disabled people, etc.

About me (again) - hobbies & creation

I happen to make fanarts, and I write fanfics and ficlets, I also do fanplaylists. Writing is one of my hobbies beside drawing, I also do photography, and I have recently started sculpting too. I love creating stuff so I often make little things, like I can sew, craft stuff, I do bullet journaling, etc.

Like I said I'm a professional artist, you'll find all the infos on my other blog but basically : I draw fantasy art, mostly women and feminine people.

I love science (astronomy and astrophysics in particular), arts, cats (I have 4), animals in general, I love music (I have eclectic tastes, I like rock, metal, classic, pop, jazz, etc...), I love to read & watch movies and shows (also eclectic but I love SFFF and horror the most).

---

Voilà, I guess it covers the basis of who I am and what this blog is. Welcome and I hope you enjoy the ride (if you don't it's ok, just don't be rude). 🥰

#about me #know your blogger #presentation post #my posts

[incarnateirony]

Fandom leak history lesson for the uninitiated

Made a longass answer to an ask over here (x) but just in case patrick’s followers have too short an attention span, let’s really lay out the true course of history. Per the post:

mfers know for a god given fact I work with people who get onto CW shows and even have some damn good friend actors that started periscope streaming supernatural and yelling at me live for getting them into this hellhole, but he can’t wrap his fucking brain around the fact that maybe someone moved the bar on him while he wasn’t looking. Or his folks yelling U DONT KNOW BOBO BOBO DOESNT KNOW U AND WILL NEVER KNOW YOUR NAME and then shutting the fuck up when I drop them a video voicemail, “HIIIII MINNNNNN ITS BOBO~~~~ AT COMICON~~~~ WHY AREN’T YOU HERE?~~~~ HUH??~~~~” Fucking shit.

figure it out, douchebags.

same dumb motherfucker that’s spent years arguing with me that Corporate Things Aren’t Real Corporate Things Don’t Exist And Can’t Hurt him, constantly smashed in the face. Or arguing that Berens had no Destiel intent and actually shipped Wincest--he banged on that for YEARS not even knowing about what Bobo’s desk looked like or the entire motion of overwriting Bucklemming going on in the room with Dabb’s aid. Arguing certain shit doesn’t happen because he’s nobody while I’m like, sitting on an under the table recording of execs in burbank about another CW show but SURE FUCKING POP OFF DUDE.

You were wrong about the original ending, and paid 5K to be wrong about the omissions, and you were wrong about the pilot, but I’m very sure your magical anon that wasn’t there to save you from looking like an embarrassment then definitely has deep insights to production futures. You were wrong about Berens. Wrong about corporate. Wrong about who cut what lines to the point you were bitchslapped by actual direct sources in half a day. I have never seen a piece of shit be more consistently wrong and pretend he’s right. This is the biggest tryhard piece of shit I have EVER encountered. Holy. Fucking. Shit.

and damn I mean, I know people in this fandom overbloat their importance, or even low key media workers do. Mary Manchin argued about the goddamn market testing and said they don’t even do general SPN market testing when I had the goddamn receipts in my phone for years before we safely pushed it through debunker. Natalie Fisher took great confidence in her RL friendship with meredith to the point she argued with me in season 15 there was no confession scene. Jess from the Mary Sue during S14 about Berens’ intent, too. Like you people do not fucking understand how stupid this all looks. And patrick generally can’t even get at THAT level of fucking sources.

Genuinely funny they can’t figure out why I’ve been comfortable owning association with that market testing without fear WB will come after me to shake me down for whoever gave it to me. You haven’t thought that far yet, I guess. Probably because you never even comprehend this world turning around you, to think of that as a flag you should probably be pissing yourself about right now.

Dumb mfer is gonna hold onto life my cardinal sin of actually knowing the original fucking ending he denied and searching for where the fuck half the script was even during filming on a production that was in fact locked down from corporate fuckery he denied until slapped on that again. Jesus christ.

[flyingcatstiel]

1. Hello again, I am the same anon who sent both of your latest two anonasks. I think there was some confusion so I'll clarify. I don't even ship stony(I've only read handfuls of fics), I ship destiel and I like all mcu characters equally and I am not team cap nor iron but I am a bitter cas girl. There was NO intention to bring any wank or ships/characters bashing to your blog. I was just so angry with 'we are' and your answer to the first ask got me thinking about stony.

2. But my ask was poorly and inadequately worded to confuse you of the ulterior intention and I apologize. Though I shouldn’t have use the ship names when I meant their general relationship both in canon and fanon, what I meant was in regard to the same situation, which is their mother’s deaths, Tony actually drew blood and all Dean did was say some words,

3. so one might think that actual physical conflicts not induced by any supernatural event indicate bad relationship but I feel Dean and Cas’s friendship and general relationship more unhealthy and unbalanced.

4. Now I just decided for my self that that’s probably because Tony and Steve has different visions, families, groups of friends and support system so even if there is conflict between them, Tony still got Pepper Rhodey and Happy and Steve got Bucky Nat and Sam.

5. So no one is left alone in the world. But if Dean’s angry with Cas, Cas is alone in the universe. I meant unhealthy like that. Cas has no one except Winchester families and if that makes Cas desperate for sense of belong and makes him apologize like that, that imao is unhealthy. But all in all, I am sorry for the confusion. I shouldn’t have been so blunt and out of the blue. Post 1502 made me go blind with unreasonable fury.

6. On a different note it’s interesting how wording and context make differences between being perceived as wank baiting anon hate or anon thanks. And I hope that this message is accepted as the latter because I am always grateful of all your reasonable words about Spn and fandom fruits. :) thanks for reading.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Heey, sorry for total misunderstanding with the previous ask and thank you for coming back and clarifying it! And yes, I’m kinda jumpy lately, since couple of my spn critical posts were hijacked by destiel haters and also earned me the blocking from destiel positivity crowd. That’s the fandom we have and that is one huge reason why I’m slowly sauntering into MCU fandom. To be brutally honest, that’s my advice to all bitter Cas girls - get out before you get too frustrated and hurt. The show will continue Cas whump because they don’t know what else to do, and destiel metas will spend all their energy justifying it. Instead of, you know, just saying that bad writing is bad writing. You can always come and vent in my inbox or via DM tho, I’ll try to answer as much as I can, because I feel you. 

OK, very quickly about CW movie and Tony’s anger vs Dean’s anger. I don’t think Tony’s situation is comparable at all here. Tony learns about Bucky killing his parents on Hydra’s orders after a long chain of very intense conflicts. That was literally the last drop, there’s little time to process it, and it is the culmination of the movie. On the other side, Dean and Cas conflict is never the centerpiece of SPN, it’s all subtext and Dean’s POV. Dean blaming Cas for Mary’s accidental death comes absolutely out of nowhere. They all knew that Jack is using his soul to do stuff, they all knew Jack needs supervision. FFS, Jack just brought Sam back from dead by using his soul. And now Cas is to blame for it? Not to mention that Dean and Cas relationship is way more complicated than MCU stony. Even if we take out romantic destiel subtext out of it, textually, Cas still is the closest person to Dean after Sam. Dean has called Cas his family, his brother several times. Dean grieved Cas in s13. And now, suddenly, it all means nothing because Dean is angry? Unpopular opinion about SPN writers under the cut.

I said it already back then and I still stand by my words - Berens wrote the line “You are dead to me” deliberately to yank the fandom. There are plenty of other words he could have used if he simply wanted to show Dean’s grief and uncontrollable anger towards Cas. Instead, SPN focused on one thing that would hurt the most and then used it in the promo. I literally saw post on my dash saying that OP was not gonna watch the episode because SPN is just meh, but, after seeing that promo, OP wanted to know why Dean said something so hideous to Cas. Remember how fans hoped that it’s a misleading promo? Remember how fans hoped that Dean will apologize to Cas? There’s an understanding that that line was too much. And, after s14 finale, I saw posts talking about how this is not relevant anymore because surely Jack’s death and Chuck’s machinations override whatever anger Dean could have towards Cas for not telling him about snake. And then 15x01 brought us that passive aggressive scene and, well, 15x02 took the cake. 

So, while I totally agree with you that the scene between Dean and Cas was terrible, my way of dealing with it is to blame SPN writers. First of all, I don’t understand what Dean is talking about there. Nothing was real? Does he mean some kind of Matrix type of reality where the real Dean is sleeping in a pod? Otherwise, it was all real. Tell Kevin Tran that his death and time after death was not real. Tell it to Jo, Charlie, Eileen that their deaths were not real. Cas speech is nice, but, honestly, not a groundbreaking revelation. Whedon’s Angel said it wittier, Dumbledore and Gandalf said it more fitting for their stories. There’s a Jewish proverb with similar sentiment. Like, this is nothing new! Our choices matter, sometimes it is the only thing that matters. I mean, everyone who has lived under authoritarian regimes, everyone who’s a minority and has to deal with privileged majority, knows this. To make Dean to refuse it in s15, is honestly very baffling. 

Like, I see that SPN writers want to draw some parallels with s4 by flipping Dean and Cas beliefs, but, scene subversion works only if you know why the first scene worked in the first place. I think this scene would have worked better if Dean would be just venting his understandable frustration with the situation. But instead, we got Cas apologizing, Dean still blaming Cas for Mary’s death (seriously wtf?) and then Dean walking out on Cas and refusing Cas’ belief in their choices being real. 

And here I come to my last point. Dean saying that their choices were not real because Chuck manipulated everything sounds very much like privileged middle class white people suddenly realizing that they are not calling the shots and then throwing into a towel. This really looks like the most “profound” revelation Bucklemming could’ve come up with. They gave similar moronic lines to Cas in 9x03, when Cas, former angel who watched humanity for thousand of years, was surprised that poor people are kind and generous. 

So, to me it looks like SPN writers are trying to be deep but in the end they write what they know best - angry white man is always right trope and le omg, if I’m not the center of the universe then everything was not real story. Which sucks, tbh. And clashes with older seasons of SPN. But here we are. And, since the conflict between Dean and Cas is based on such a weak argument, there can’t be real resolution, catharsis and growth. The current conflict serves only one purpose - to keep Cas and Dean on bad terms and to make Cas leave (because Misha’s contract something something). My worst fear - this stupid conflict will set Cas on self destructive/sacrificial path, and that will be it. Because let’s be serious, destiel is not the most important thing in s15. It’s just not. 

#gosh this got long #and still not sure if i answered it rightly #and i feel ya #i get being angry at that scene #and then facing tumblr community gushing about it #i'm sorry if my first answer #looked like destiel apology #i find it very hard to speak about shipping destiel #without going into a very detailed explanations #but basically #fandom destiel is not the same as destiel we associate with the show #the show is killing destiel right now #and they are quite succesful #s15 #flyingcatstiel has thoughts #15x02 #bittercas!girl #anonymous #spn meta

[spnfanficpond]

Pond Diving - thoughtslikeamindfield

Welcome to today’s Pond Diving Spotlight! We hope that you enjoy this little insight to our members and perhaps even find some useful tips for your own writing. Happy reading!

Want to volunteer, send us an ask! We’re looking forward to learning more about all of you! Not sure what PD is, you can learn more here.

“Don’t Be Koi About It” - All About You

Name: MJ

Age: 49

Location: Aspen, Colorado, USA

URL: @thoughtslikeaminefield

Why did you choose your URL: I’m a diehard Foo Fighters fan. When I came back to Tumblr after a 4yr hiatus, Foo’s album Concrete and Gold had just come out, and the first single was “The Sky Is A Neighborhood” with the verse:

Thoughts like a minefield I'm a ticking bomb Maybe you should watch your step Don't get lost

What inspired you to become a writer: I love telling stories, both verbally and written. What’s kept me motivated is connecting with people through shared experiences, making people laugh, and making life-long friends as a result of those connections.

How long have you been writing: I’ve been writing since I was 8- or 9-years-old!

What do you do when you are not writing i.e. Job/Hobbies etc? I sell mortgages for a living, laugh and enjoy life with my husband, hike with my dogs, talk smack with my friends and family. I recently hosted a group of fandom friends here in the Rocky Mountains in a big house, where we did all of the above at one point or another, and it was such a joy.

How long have you been in the SPN Fandom? It feels like I’ve been here forever. I was reading Dean/Faith Lehane fic back in 2008 and I’ve been laughing at memes on Tumblr since as long as I’ve been on Tumblr (this is my fourth blog), but I didn’t start actively watching the show until 2015 (-ish?). I truly joined SPN fandom when I started writing SPN fic in the spring of 2018, so a little over 3yrs.

Are you in any other fandoms and do you write for them? Yes! I was active in The X-Files fandom for years via forums, chat rooms, and geocites (it was the 90s and early aughts, after all lol), but never wrote for it; Buffy and Angel in the same manner as well as LiveJournal and wrote a little; I was active in Twilight fandom for a few years and wrote fic there, once sitting on a Twific panel at SDCC; I’ve been peripherally active in several of Norman Reedus’ fandoms and written for him and his roles; and currently, I’m active in SPN, The Boys, anything Jensen does, Ted Lasso (I have fic ideas), MCU and other Marvel media, Star Wars and all things associated (especially Din Djarin’s tiny green bebe Grogu), Lucifer, anything Keanu Reeves does, and super fucking excited for my boy Pattinson in The Batman.

Do you do any writing outside of fanfiction? If so, tell us about it? I am working on a sort of fictionalized memoir based on my family and my relationships throughout my life. My sister and I have a lot of stories to tell, so we’ve been piecing together a concept for the past couple of years!

Favorite published author: Carrie Fisher

Have you ever read a book that made an impact on your life? Which one and why?: Several. I will say, however, that neither Postcards from the Edge nor Wishful Drinking by Carrie Fisher ever leave my bedside.

Carrie had such a gift with words and expression. She struggled with mental illness, loss, and addiction; she was a soul sister.

Favorite genre of fanfic (smut, angst, fluff, crack, rpf, etc): I’ll read just about any genre, but I seem to gravitate toward explicit content, both to read and write.

Favorite piece of your own writing: This is Sophie’s Choice, so I’ll just go with something easy, fun, and sexy -- Plus One (for which I am currently working on a sequel!)

Most underrated fic you have written: Cactus - Dean Winchester x Meg Masters x Castiel

Idk if it’s underrated, but I don’t think a lot of people have seen it, and I don’t write Destiel very often!

Story of yours that you’d most like to see turned into a movie/tv show:

Run Me Like A River - AU Dean Winchester x AU Jessica Jones

Summary: AU wherein Jessica Jones is super-powered by gov’t experiments to create elite soldiers, the Winchesters are military officers in humanity’s War Against Evil, and they have all gone AWOL from their assigned roles. Dean and Jess embark in a relationship that ends abruptly and explosively until Dean calls her for help on a very personal case.

Warnings: explicit, this is not your mother’s dean winchester, major character death, unhealthy relationship dynamics, bondage, rough-sex, biting, bruising, blood, anal sex, ptsd

Favorite Tumblr Writer(s): @inkiestdawn @itmighthavebeenintentional @lastactiontricia @littlegreenplasticsoldier @mrswhozeewhatsis @rockhoochie @stusbunker @there-must-be-a-lock @wayward-and-worn

Favorite Fic from another writer: Heard, Seen, Believed by @stusbunker -- yes, I beta’d this fic, but I beta’d it because it was amazing. This is easily one of my Top 5 Favorite SPN fics ever. It’s sooooo sexy and relatable and UGH.

Favorite character to write: Dean Winchester

Favorite Pairing to write: I have a very soft spot for Megstiel.

Least favorite character to write (and why): I don’t write anyone I don’t thoroughly enjoy writing!

Do you have anyone you consider a mentor? Hmm, Idk about mentor, but I probably wouldn’t be writing fic and I certainly wouldn’t be sharing it without having @icemankazansky @mskathywriteswords and @cracksinthewalls in my life who have each supported and encouraged me through the years in ways that have been absolutely essential to my confidence and competence.

Do you have any aspirations involving your writing? Some day, I want to be able to tell My Story, if I can ever figure out what that is. lolllll

How many work-in-progress stories do you have: Oh, lord, a dozen? Maybe more.

What are you currently working on? The final installment for a 3-part FWB to lovers Dean x female reader AU, some Soldier Boy fuckery, and I’m trying to work up the gumption to get back to my Sam x female reader AU series. I also have a ton of AWESOME prompts from tumblr friends and from Bingos and Challenges that are just waiting for me to not be such a disaster.

“Pond Diving” - All About The Writing

What/who has had the biggest influence on your writing? Style-wise -- songwriters like Jim Morrison, Stevie Nicks, Sarah McLachlan, Dave Grohl, Trent Reznor, and Josh Homme; content-wise -- the feelings and experiences of my life like love, loss, heartbreak, lust, and trauma.

Best writing advice you've been given: Just get the words down; you can edit it later!

Biggest obstacle you’ve faced in your writing: When I jump the gun and think I know where I’m headed but then hit a roadblock and have gotten too far ahead to figure out how to back up!

What aspects of writing do you find difficult when you write fanfiction? Series. I have shit patience so I post too soon sometimes and the next thing I know I’ve hit a wall and the damn thing is stalled.

Is there anything you want to write but are afraid to (and why)? There are things I want to write but haven’t figured out yet, but I’m not really afraid of writing anything.

What inspires/motivates you to write? Human connection, reader feedback, my friends.

How do you deal with self doubt? Go back and re-read things I’ve written that I remember loving and the feedback from readers that touched my heart. I talk to my friends, too.

How do you deal with writer's block? Walk it off, make graphics, ask for insight, read something fresh and different.

Do you plan/outline your story before you start? I try to and I want to get better at this, especially for series’, but I don’t do it enough!

Do you have any weird writing habits? Idk how weird it is per se, but my usual habits include making playlists and graphics and talking out my ass about anything and everything related to the concepts or themes. I’m all about the vibes and aesthetics.

Have you ever received hateful comments on your fic and how do you deal with it? Not really. I had a woman several years ago harass me for being “irresponsible” with the main characters because they had sex without contraception and it was a one-weekend stand, but I just listened to and talked it out with her.

Conversely: what’s been some of your favorite feedback on your fanfic? Most recently I received an incredibly in depth and thoughtful observation on one of my darker and more personal fics that was so spot on that it made me cry. But I can’t not mention my long-time beta here since she is my beta because of her consistently detailed and thoughtful feedback for more than 10 years. She’s been with me ever since.

If you could give one piece of advice to a new and/or struggling writer, what would it be? Surround yourself with people you trust and respect and who feel the same about you so that you are able to be vulnerable, try new things and fail, and grow.

#pond diving #spnfanficpond

[drsilverfish]

Signs and Wonders - of Angels and Mothers in 15x19 Inherit the Earth

Hi everyone,

I am late to the party as usual, and I haven’t jumped into the Tumblr hive mind yet.

First of all, I know this episode will have felt very painful to many of you, because of Cas’ absence and Dean’s contained grief. 

Look, those fuckers in the writers’ room are toying with us. Dean running up to the door to greet Cas, only to find The Devil instead? A deliberate twist in the narrative negative space, which screams in the story (lovers parted, and surely reunited). 

This episode does a lot of heavy lifting, in that it both serves as a “Brothers Only” ending for certain audience segments (who can, perhaps, depending on what happens, forever pretend 15x20 didn’t take place) and also, I surmise, for certain audience markets, whilst, at the same time, undercutting that ending (15x19) as sad, lonely and cheesy [that montage at the end, lol]. 

The visual narrative, which has always been one of SPN’s best features, had plenty to say of interest, so I thought I’d start there, with an angels and mothers theme.

Chuck’s empty world contains this shot of New York, which depicts a rainbow on the right, and on the left, a billboard which reads, “Switch, and get 100% total satisfaction”, whilst the billboard in the middle, for Coke, reads “Staying apart is the best way to stay united.” 

Cryptic, huh? But accidents don’t just happen accidentally. 

An LGBT rainbow, first off.  “Switching” could refer to bisexuality, but it also refers, perhaps, to a double ending structure, i.e. 15x19 and 15x20 as endings you can “switch”, in which case, “Staying apart is the best way to stay united”, could be understood as commentary on the two ancient SPN fandom strands (Bronlies and Destiellers) which a double ending structure seeks to accommodate. 

In that case Chuck (meaning the writers’ room) really is (as they told us themselves, via a reconstitued Lilith, in 15x05 Proverbs 17:3) a “low rent Dean Koontz”. I wrote about the possibility of a double-ending structure here, in relation to that Dean Koontz comment:

https://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/189090087949/hes-more-of-a-low-rent-dean-koontz-15x05

Next visual narrative marker (in my mothers and angels theme) was this shot of Dean next to the Margiekugel beer, which, as all the crazy and marvellous SPN beer meta writers taught us, is the beer associated with mothers in SPN. Dean as a nurturing figure here, yes, but I remain convinced we will see Mary Winchester again in 15x20. That would fit beautifully with Dabb’s Ouroboros narrative, because Amara resurrected Mary, and now, Amara is part of Jack-the Divine-Unity, and he [as her, apparent, killer] would surely wish to bring happiness to his adopted Winchester family by restoring her again:

Oh look, a Mary figure in the Michael church:

And an angel besides:

 Which recalls Mary’s line, long ago, in 5x13 The Song Remains the Same, spoken to baby Dean in-the-womb,  “Angels are watching over you.” Which now, resonates emotively back into the story, in a new way, through Castiel’s final, loving, sacrifice for Dean in 15x18 Despair. 

This shot was also interesting - Route 66:

On one level, this is a visual joke about one of Bucklemming’s (also the writers of 15x19′s) most joked about SPN episodes, 1x13 Route 666, otherwise known as the “racist truck” episode. I actually think that characterisation of the ep is a little unfair - it at least tried to tackle the horror of historic racism, albeit with a rather ridiculous horror show twist. 

BUT, on another level, that episode contains Dean’s lover, Cassie. And Cassie  has been read by many, as equated (by naming elision) with Castiel, in the show’s narrative subtext. So, we can (if we choose) read this sign as another poignant, subtextual, reminder of absent Castiel, in 15x19. 

Then we have this shot, of Dean by the “Men” and “Ladies” doors at this gas station, choosing “Men”:

Yes, of course he’s chosing “Men”, Silverfish - he’s going to the loo (I’m British). 

Neverthless, this kind of visual, symbolic, bisexual coding of Dean, is also a deliberate Ouroboros in the narrative, because Dean has been coded as bisexual, in the show’s visual and symbolic subtext, since S1:

https://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/115161057824/bisexual-in-the-subtext-since-s1

 And now? Now that the Winchesters are free of Chuck’s control, at last? Chuck, for whom Castiel’s rebellion, and Castiel’s love, for Dean, was never part of the story? 

Ah, well, that’s still to play for. 

Dean’s character is, in my view, at this point, still structured by the narrative glass closet (meaning, his queerness is visible to some, invisible to others, by design); a doubling structure. 

Dabb’s finale has now itself been set up as part of a doubling structure - 15x19 Inherit the Earth as one “ending”, and 15x20 Carry On, as another.   

#Supernatural #15x19 #Inherit the Earth #SPN meta #Meta #Dean is bisexual #Still subtext #But subtext IS part of narrative #Mary Winchester #Amara Queen of Heaven

[alsaurus-loves-dean]

Hey so, can I just say that I'm fully of the same opinion as your previous anon, being hurt by the fandom's reaction to Jensen's opinion on Cas' love - I don't even think there's ground to say he's protecting his career and is pressured or whatever, I legitimately thought his answer was a good answer ? He literally insists about it being his OWN intepretation of Cas' love. It's his idea of it, he's not saying it's what the writers were doing, unlike Jared being all "THAT WASN'T THE POIIIIINT". And I actually disagree with Jensen's opinion on Cas' love, because to me it's because it was such a profoundly human love he felt that he changed so much, but Jensen's OPINION (again, it's his INTERPRETATION as he insisted) makes total sense to me - as previous anon said, Cas is an angel, arguably by the end but that's depending on who you ask, and he's been an angel for a large majority of his run - thinking the love he felt was different, was more profound, just MORE than the love we can think of, is just... an opinion that makes sense to me, and that I've actually seen on the dash said by people treating Jensen like the scum of the earth for his opinion on this. And as an Ace person myself, I'm also feeling super weirded out by the vibes of a lot of Destiel blogs right now - there's been a disrespect of an Ace interpretation of Cas for a while now, people implying if he doesn't want to fuck Dean he can't be gay and associating lack of lust with infantilization - and I don't even hc Cas as particularly Ace, but I'm not missing on the irony of the situation of people shitting on someone because they have a different opinion on what a character feels while insisting there's only one valid interpetation - implying anyone who thinks Cas doesn't want to have sex is... homophobic I guess ? Thanks for that and thanks for having all that respect for people you apparently really don't give a shit about. I literally give zero shit about the actors and their opinions, they don't change mine, but while Jared spewed fucking weird appalling bullshit and implied Cas' love was brotherly, Jensen expressed a personal interpretation that was completely valid and understandable based on the show, even if I don't agree with it, but didn't deny the romanticism of it. Anyway, I'm sorry to add to the rants, but I just wish some people on here would realize how hypocritical they're being with some shit they're saying.

❤️

#anon #I’m not ace so I’m not really gonna say anything except y’all are valid and I love you

[autisticandroids]

hi i'm trying to keep up on spn fandom drama without actually watching the 6 seasons I don't care enough to watch so could you tell me what on earth "why lamp" means? tysm

ok so this is a long one. 

so the way i see it there are three major pieces of evidence, in the last two seasons, that dean is going to reciprocate. 

i’m not talking about like, evidence that i would use as a textual analyst if the author was dead: if i use everything that looks to ME like dean being queer then i would have mountains. i’m talking three pieces of evidence which i am absolutely convinced were intentional on the part of the people who write the show, meaning that they suggest deancas might actually go canon officially. 

that’s also why i’m only counting the last two seasons; cas made his deal with the empty in early season fourteen and it was definitely intended to come off as romantic. why do i know this? because it has the same goddamn terms and even wording as angel’s curse from buffy: angel experiences “one moment of true happiness” and he loses his soul, cas experiences “one moment where he is truly happy” and he dies. on buffy, angel’s true happiness is..... well.......... sex with buffy. so when i heard the deal i was like hm. at the time i thought they were just fanservice/easter egging me, but now i know better: they intended that. so i think mr. dabb has been planning deancas endgame since at least them lol. i’m pretty sure they knew the show was ending at that point so they could do it.

anyway the first piece of evidence is dean’s michael fantasy in 14x10. this is imo the second strongest. in it, he’s a bartender, accompanied only by a woman he can never sleep with because she has a boyfriend. they flirt endlessly, and she comments “how come you only want what you can’t have” which is a mirror for what cas says in his confession: “the one thing i want, it’s something i know i can’t have.” she also later comments “besides, you don’t want me, you just like to flirt. i’m psychic, i know.” suggesting that dean is faking his interest in her, which could be normal but reads to me as intentionally suggestive that he’s either uninterested in women or simply hung up on someone else. like “dean pretends to be interested in women to show off his flirting game and flex his dudeness muscles” is a subtext that’s present in a huge amount of the show; like, there are a few female love interests he has chemistry with, but mostly his sexcapades read like i-need-to-prove-i’m-manly bedframe notching or showing off for his buddies. this is even explicit-ish a couple of times, like i said in this post here. but they’ve never explicitly pointed it out in words i don’t think. and like. “pretending heterosexuality” is pretty queer lmao (even if dean is bi he’s still faking ultrastraightness to prove he’s manly/straight). 

also, it’s weird as hell that they picked pamela barnes for that scene. she never had a particularly close connection with the boys or anything, why not someone else? but she’s 1) psychic, so she can say that line about dean not wanting her, and 2) much more importantly, she’s intimately associated with cas. like, she first appears in lazarus rising, and she’s the one who gets her eyes burned out looking at cas’ true face. like that’s her biggest deal: Woman Who Got Her Eyes Burned Out To Show How Dangerous Cas Is. and then she died off pretty quickly because she was a woman on spn s4.

also, in the scene, she wears an angel wing necklace and a shirt that says “to hell and back” (pointed out to me in the same post). plus the guy who wrote the episode also wrote lily sunder has some regrets which i hope we can all agree is an ICONIC destiel episode.

the second piece of evidence is the purgatory confession in 15x09. this is the strongest evidence. i don’t really have much to say about it because it’s so blatant? like, when i first saw it, i was literally like “this is intentional deancas fanservice jesus christ.” like i lean towards generally interpreting deancas stuff as an accident on the part of straight writers and the purgatory thing did not feel accidental to me. and then cas cuts dean off at the end of the confession, before dean can say some final thing, and dean looks devastated, and then we never find out what the final thing was. like, it’s pretty blatant.

the third piece of evidence is the lamp dance. this is the weakest of the three. basically, dean has a dream sequence in 15x10 where he dances romantically with a lamp. given that one of the things that’s going on in 15x10 is that dean is realizing that he could be allowed to have domestic bliss, the apple pie life, and still be a hunter. the dance with the lamp does kind of come off like it’s implying that there is a partner shaped hole in his life. he has no female love interest in s15 and he hasn’t for years. here is a really cool, if way too smart for spn, piece of meta about it, and here’s another which is less cool but acknowledges that spn is dumb and doesn’t think that hard and is therefore imo more correct. also, andrew dabb himself wrote the lamp dance episode, which makes it stronger evidence than it would be otherwise imo.

anyway when i was Feeling the Madness on saturday, i decided to make this joke post based on the format of that one alvin and the chipmunks meme, you know, “if women are oppressed then why ___” (i would not suggest looking at it on my actual blog because tragically that breaks the format, open it in dash). i was basically using the lamp dance as slightly-ridiculous synecdoche for all three of these pieces of evidence because it’s the weakest.

then later that day, because i treat my blog as a deeply self-referential internal monologue, i made this post documenting the madness i was experiencing, and i ended it with “then WHY LAMP” as a reference to my earlier post. that one got popular, and now “why lamp” is a common way to refer to the lamp dance meta.

#spn #asks #why lamp #Anonymous

[orionsangel86]

I have been shipping Destiel since lj days and I can very much tell you Jensen is not part of a long con. Jensen was very uncomfortable with fandom in general way back then, Misha was actually instrumental in bringing him around. Quite honestly, I never thought I would see the day that he was this into fandom and it's kind of awesome. Someone else might be able to prove me wrong but this is what I remember.

I mean I think the jackles long con thing is just a joke and not one I am a part of, but I think the thing with Jensen is this:

He was first introduced to shipping culture at age 26, fresh faced and still kinda early on in his career, via having incestuous pornography of him and his onscreen brother shoved in his face and down his throat.

I may not have been around at the time, but i’ve seen enough stuff to know that was what happened. Jensen did not have a good introduction to fandom.

It made him extremely uncomfortable, and he reacted badly to it (then again wouldn’t you if you had incest porn shoved in your face?)

When Destiel then came about, it was also still mostly seen as being about sex. Jensen always associated Destiel the same way he associated w*ncest - as being gay porn about his character.

It has indeed taken him years to come around to it. Misha was indeed instrumental in that as well I have no doubt. Whilst I don’t think Jensen has been “shipping” Destiel since the beginning, I think he realised over time that it was a love story, that there was a huge difference between the people that fetishized his character and only saw Dean’s relationships with either his brother or Cas as sexual, to those of us (the majority of us) who just wanted to talk about the love story we saw blossoming in front of us on screen.

After all, we know for a fact that they were aware of the intensity of Dean and Cas’s relationship back in season 5 when Jensen jokingly called Cas “the gay angel”. We know he is aware of how the relationship between Dean and Cas comes across even when totally not in a fandom environment such as conventions. Otherwise we wouldn’t have the kind of jokes we do in the blooper reels.

I think he has been aware for the majority of Misha’s time on the show, that there has been a potential for Dean and Cas to be something more, but because he always associated the fandom excitement about it with the more pornographic fetish side of things, he buried those thoughts and clearly displayed discomfort when having it raised in fandom settings.

We know that Jensen initially had issues with the finale. We know he had to talk to the writers about it, and talk to Kripke about it in particular. So we know that even if he was aware of the potential of Dean and Cas’s relationship all along, the idea of it being made textual did give him pause, and that is TOTALLY understandable if you generally associate the relationship with fetish, porn, and objectification.

It is amazing that we are where we are now, with Jensen quite clearly fully embracing this story (and I know we don’t yet know how the finale will go don’t @ me on that - to me, it’s a given), but I do think that like with Misha, he gradually came to accept Dean’s love for Cas over the years and saw that organic love story as a separate beast entirely to the fandom “shipping” experience of “Destiel”. He might not have been on board with “Destiel” from the start, but as for the DeanCas love story? He has always been on board with that, even if he initially didn’t know it.

#Jensen ackles #of course these are my opinions #but I am basing them on lots of different stories and evidence gathered over the years #destiel #asks #Anonymous

[scaryorganmusic]

sorry this is really petty but like. this drama is so funny bc ultimately ppl are being accused of liking w*ncest just for like. being mildly dean critical. babes you know you can just block people for disagreeing with you. it doesn’t have to be that deep. in fact it’s literally the only way to survive fandom with more than a quarter of your brain cells left. anyway I’m a dean stan bc I imprinted on him as a child but when I see posts about how he sucks I either agree, disagree and ignore it (and sometimes just unfollow bc I’m curating the most fun online experience for myself as I should), or just say “that makes a lot of sense but it makes me sad so I’m just writing it out of my personal secret good spn”. It’s not that hard.

also like. fellas is not wanting to talk about incest on the blog you run for fun the same as supporting incest /s

also also. the cycle of destiel shippers being annoying and condescending to non destiel shippers -> non destiel shippers understandably deciding they dislike destiel shippers -> destiel shippers being offended for being called annoying is SO funny. tony you CHOSE to do that- like I ship destiel and even I think you’re annoying lmao

Okay I don't plan on talking about this too much anymore but I'll take this as an opportunity to address some things

It is wild how lightly people are treating very awful accusations here. I understand being suspiscious before following someone, because I have accidentally followed people who put that content on my dash (untagged too! because i do have it blacklisted) and it felt so gross. But people are just taking anything they don't like as "sus behavior"

Here are things I've seen people honestly mention that makes you suspicious: obviously being mainly a Sam blog, being "dean critical", being too intense about liking seasons 1-3, shipping sastiel (????), posting mainly about the brothers and not about Cas, criticizing an actor, being reblogged by one of them (even though we also hate when that happens! but it's not something we can control because i don't know every single one of them in order to block) and of course being associated with someone else that's sus.

And here's where I completely agree with what you said: people could just block others for all those things without throwing accusations around! You can just say "most of Sam blogs, or all Sam blogs who don't post destiel, are annoying as hell and i'll block them all" and that's fine! Or, better yet, don't say anything, you don't need to publically announce when you block someone.

Also yeah, a lot of people don't add banners on every post or post nonstop about how gross the wincest shit is because we prefer to avoid it and not be constantly thinking about it. I have the tag blacklisted but I don't do a deep investigation of OP of every post that makes into my dash, and that's kind of a wild expectation.

Quick note on the "dean critical" thing, I've never seen a fandom so weird about people critizing a character. The whole reason people started using the tag was exactly so we could still hang out with people like you, who love him and maybe don't wish to see negative analysis on him, so you could have a tag to blacklist instead of unfollowing! And although it's the bare minimum, I respect the honest attitude of "I know this happened in the show, but personally it's not an aspect I want to read/write meta about" instead of straight up denying stuff.

It is a wild cycle, with so many people (including myself) rejoining the fandom recently it's like you could see us going from "this is fun! i'm gonna follow a bunch of spn blogs" to "this is mildly annoying" to "i hate all of you, blocking spree". Not to be a hypocrite, I was onboard with destiel for most of my time in the fandom, I think I fell out of love with the ship partially because of my rewatch (and it shouldn't be that weird that rewatching something as an adult your perception on it changes!) and partially because of the fandom being so very Like That about it. And the whole fandom experience once you leave that ship is just very different. The bitterfication of the sam girl or whatever.

I do still have destiel mutuals who I appreciate very much, I don't even blacklist the tag because y'all have some amazing artists and I'm always up for fanart, even of things I don't ship (of course with the exception of gross ships).

Anyways yeah it is so infortunate that all of this happened but we move on, idk if anyone took the time to read all of this because it turned more into me venting than anything else but I also appreciate the support i’ve been getting from some of y’all

#fandom wank #Anonymous

[lulu-zodiac]

re: wincest. you seem like a very sweet and kind person to me and I enjoy following you, but I think you and a lot of other people on this side of the fandom are over-thinking it a bit when it comes to wincest.

I used to read a lot of wincest when I was younger, but I've neither been a victim of sexual abuse/trauma, nor have I ever wanted to fuck my siblings. so why did I read it? simple: because that was the main thing available if you didn't want to read J2 RPF (destiel was only in its beginning stages back then) and also because I've always drawn a clear line between fiction and reality. fictional incest bothers me about as much as the fictional torture or murder in your average crime novel or tv show. it's all just stuff that you read about in books or fic or watch on TV and in movies, but that nobody would actually want in real life. and I think the same is true for most people. the effect of fiction on reality is not as strong as tumblr likes to think or claim it is, otherwise we would have to shut down all our libraries and book stores, because libraries and book stores are full of fictional (and also non-fictional) murder, torture, rape, incest and all kinds of other abuse and violence. sometimes clearly presented as a bad thing and sometimes not.

basically, from my pov: a) it's not that deep for most people and b) censorship is bad. just because you (general you) find something uncomfortable or problematic is not a good reason to demand it gets banned or to treat everyone associated with it badly. history has shown time and time again that this kind of mindset leads nowhere good.

TW: w*ncest

thank you for sharing your thoughts on this with me, it's really interesting hearing your perspective on it all.

i would like to say i never meant to imply that all people who have read/shipped w*ncest have experienced abuse or trauma, and i'm sorry if it came across that way. i just wanted to acknowledge that a not insignificant proportion of them will have, and i think it's really important to be mindful of that as there is often a lot of hate and judgement directed at individuals who ship w*ncest.

i completely agree with you about censorship being a negative thing. i think it's important we can all explore the things we want and need to in our lives, the uncomfortable and taboo stuff included. that being said, protecting vulnerable people is also important, and so i think while censoring w*ncest isn't helpful, it's also important not to normalise or excuse incest and abuse.

i do think fiction and reality are very closely intertwined, and that the things that we're drawn to as individuals and society are very reflective of the experiences we have (both individually and collectively), so i have to disagree with you a little there. but i do hear what you're saying about the fact we read/watch/create lots of things that we'd never think of doing in our own lives.

thank you for explaining your take on this, i think you make some super valid points and i guess you're right in that for some people, reading w*ncest doesn't go that deep. i'm just interested in all the different factors that go into why individuals/societies immerse themselves in certain fictions.

i think it's important to remember that we never know what's going on for people and shouldn't demonise them for the things they might need to explore via fiction.

#asks #tw w*ncest

[incarnateirony]

Wow. lol-jackles seriously thinks Jensen's less attractive, popular, well known, and talented than Jared. Jensen's never going to rise above being 3rd on the call sheet unless a producer like Jared designs a role playing to his (read: limited) acting skills. Everything Jensen (and Misha) do/have/say is crap. But it's the hellers and AAs who are jealous and MEEEAN to poor Jared. True MAGA hypocrite, ignoring facts and living in some alternate reality they've created in their minds

P much

I find literally none of them attractive personally because, you know, they’re men and all that.

But all it takes is one look at Jensen Ackles, even if you’re not personally attracted, to understand that he’s the more classically attractive of the lot. He meets every media standard of attractiveness, like some perfect shake and bake bag of classic attributes of male beauty. I don’t know what universe anybody lives in to pretend otherwise or like Jensen would have a harder time finding work from his looks.

Much less his acting. I’m sorry. Jensen Microexpressions Ackles vs Jared Macroexpressions Padalecki is not a contest. Not remotely. That’s not being “AA”. It’s literally observing the basic functions of their acting. 

Jensen doesn’t need to do shit like this

or this

He just doesn’t. Sam was equally over the top in 15.20. Again, he just was.

I think part of it is in the universe they built to shit down on Destiel, they had to shit down on Jensen’s micro work. They would rather imply, subdermally, that Jensen somehow underplayed Dean’s death in 15.20 than gave a solid (if directorially overdrawn) performance while Jared Manly Wail Dot Jpeged through it. Why? Because they also can’t recognize the same features of acting he applied in 15.18.

I swear to god it felt like they were acting two entirely different scenes with the energy in the comedically long 15.20 death.

Why? Because in both scenes, there was an I Love You with nothing back.

Given, they bro’ed the bro scene. Destiel fandom out here always “No Fear; Cas/Dean calling Each Other Brother: One Fear” and it was literally the bro scene that they crapped on by throwing “my baby brother” in when Destiel didn’t get that, despite all the other “When I first raised you out of hell/got you from school” “knowing you changed me/you didn’t take any of dad’s crap (so I learned not to)” and then they slapped the goddamn “my baby brother” on it and Sam also didn’t say it back and respectively, never ever has.

By bronly logic: Sam doesn’t love Dean, even as a brother. Unless of course, you only respect Manly Wail Dot Jpeg. And not all the nuance Jensen brings to his acting. (”No response; flat; underacted” etc.) -- understanding that would understand 15.18 instantly so can’t have that.

And that’s enduring even before 15.18. 

We won’t even talk about the fact that Jensen is currently out-trending Jared on every platform--be it imdb star rating for how often he’s searched, or google--while Jared’s constantly headlining articles on a new buzzy show and Jensen is.. shoveling snow? Posted a picture on instagram? Made a few statements several months ago? Has a production company with zero actual announcements or current products while Jared has one that’s actively attached to Walker? Has a show role for a show that’s going to air in 2022, that got announced half a year ago? IDK. Shrug emoji.

The same people currently don’t understand that 0.2 is a smaller number than 0.3 in the same year on the same timeslot on the same channel too. Nothing they say is grounded remotely in reality. The whole world is a conspiracy against Jarpad to them, and that’s why people talk about Chaos Machine and not Stick To Your Guns, I guess.

They’re in flat denial that this current show is--as someone on SR (the site they convinced themselves I somehow personally made in 2009 just to fuck with Walker in 2021 [which I don’t own]) put it-- in “Walker Try Not To Round Down To 0.1 In Your First Season Challenge” mode with its current ratings trajectory. Ebb and flow tells us it’s going to hover its current 0.21-0.23 for a bit but start draining on the back end and does genuinely risk dropping under 0.151 at this point. And I hate to break it to them again, but 0.1 is a smaller number than 0.3 still.

Flat-out: even beyond who’s more attractive, or who’s better as an actor, or who trends higher online: Jensen just chose his career path far more intelligently.

He courted multiple possible media suitors (WB, Disney, Amazon). He came out with a role on an Amazon show and an exclusive deal with the WB for a studio that can put his work anywhere from on the CW to HBO. He’s diversifying his recognition base and portfolio.

Jared chose a path that is plugging him back on the CW, and actually makes his popup studio in association with it wholly dependent on its parent companies, rather than being an independent operation contracted into exclusivity. If and when Jensen’s contract ends, if he doesn’t feel it’s fruitful, he can do whatever he wants with Chaos Machine, while having a strong bedrock of existing product and notoriety under it. Stick To Your Guns is a limited vessel and reliant on its current clout ladder. Jensen will be able to walk wherever he wants after this. Jared will not. Not as a producer. Not with a media company. He’ll be back to being an actor seeking casting that has some production experience. Which he should, by now, after being in acting for like 20 years. Maybe Stick To Your Guns will survive past and Pedowitz will order another series aimed for a similar demographic to also be on the CW. Because Stick To Your Guns isn’t going much of anywhere else. It even platforming Walker on HBOMax is a CBS-WB agreement for how they’re peddling product with the Netflix deal broken. It’s not gonna actively create content FOR HBO.

Add in Walker being on the CW, and being all but uncancellable as a CBS product on the CW, he’s tied in for at least 88 episodes or until catastrophic failure, whichever comes first. That means 4-5 seasons with its current episode format. That means Jared will have spent his entire professional life on the WB/CW, known as a “stupid teen network”--while, at worst, Jensen may produce content for that network while also handling things for HBO and other WB platforms and performing on other media throughout. 

Jensen and Jared both stayed true to SPN as a production--neither can be faulted for how much of their lives went into that and it’s generally an attribute. But one chose to step forward, out, and wider and the other just stepped laterally in the same space and that IS noticeable on a professional level. Again, that’s just reality. That’s going to be looked at by future media agencies. It just is. No amount of hollering on tumblr about the great AA conspiracy against Jarpad is gonna change that.

Jared has officially niched himself into a role where after this he’s pretty much gonna be forever cursed to play The Dad On That New Teen Show unless he does something DRASTIC after this. Period. Like end of story. That’s reality. Short of absolutely embarrassing collapse of Walker he’s not walking out of the show before he’s 43-44. Jensen was already shuffling contract work with his current clients at 41. And came out more independent for it. 

[bradycore]

i'm sorry but it is v hard for me to process the idea of dean being considered jack's father when sam isn't. even overlooking the basic issues with dean and jack's relationship because there were certainly points where they loved each other, there is no way to justify dean being more of a father to him than sam. and when someone doesn't acknowledge sam even being in the picture (like i see very very frequently in fics and posts and etc), it feels pretty clear that it's now about dean's association with cas.

the question of "who's jack's father" seems to get answered so often with...destiel. not "dean and cas," because you can't say that it's only about jack's specific relationship with each of them if you're not including sam. it's about destiel. and like, no shade if that's your headcanon, you absolutely have that right. but to me, it feels like that glimpse of the tangled found family dynamic we got in the show tends to get kind of dismantled, when i look at this notion of "dean and cas are jack's dad's <3" in a big portion of the fandom and know that because they didn't include sam, it's probably more about destiel and "a couple + a kid" than the actual concept of found family and the fundamental dynamics between the characters. which isn't necessarily bad or anything! i just wish there was a bit more focus on/acknowledgement of the latter things.

it's kind of the same issue with dean and claire--cas and claire, too, even--although that situation definitely has its own unique factors. i just find it kind of interesting and a bit "wait what" that so much of the fandom seems to have projected this idea of dean and destiel being dads onto various characters, when those characters often already have a found family setup that includes more than just dean or dean&cas, who they sometimes have negative associations with.

so. hm. there's that.

#for me its the way that...sam & dean & cas & jack are such an interesting n complex n heartwarming found family #that COMPLETELY breaks away from the societal norms of what a family 'should' look like #that's so important to me #and then when most of the jack & dean & cas content i see is destiel AND in a domestic setting AND doesn't include sam #it feels like it's being pushed ever so slightly towards that basic expected family archetype #and i don't want to be..coming down on people who make that kind of content? it's great content! #my thoughts on this stem from my personal interpretation of it and not the content itself or the intention behind it #but i did want to share them #of course this might just come down to spn being really really bad at reinforcing its own message of 'family don't end in blood' lmao #spn #supernatural #sam #dean #jack #cas #claire #gabriel.txt

[afishlearningpoetry]

a lot of the rage at tjlc and sherlock fans in general seems to be us saying it's a good show lol. With something like spn most fans will say "yeah it's bad but" but it's like people are angry that we won't do the same with Sherlock

I mean yeah exactly… one of the things that was said to me after nov. 5th was that they (people posting about it, before the finale) were “having fun” which is why what they were doing was approved for larger sharing on this website and continues to be, and that we were “monsters of our own making”, which is a very terminally online to say, and a very weird thing to think, because you have to not only be hate-obsessed with us but like, have to believe there’s some kind of real world harm to justify calling someone a monster, which has been the narrative about this whole thing, that it was some kind of cult.

Naturally this is overstating harm for the purpose of relentlessly attacking a tv show for nine years. It’s interesting that sherlock is really the most stigmatized out of the three Big Fandoms from a decade ago because not only is it the most award-winning, it’s obviously the most accessible and the most likely thing other people have seen or would be interested in watching when you’re having a conversation in the real world with a normal person, when the other two, even though DW in particular is an international phenomenon, are considered genre tv or low-brow art. The johnlock relationship was also the most popular ship from that time period, aside from destiel (which exists because of acd johnlock), and around 2012 when that kind of social awareness was spreading on this website which partially involved whether you consumed “problematic” media or not (which was not entirely undeserved, considering how much racism et. al was in fandom back then and will continue to be, and only since that time period has finally become part of public discourse), which over the years has led to a lot of different self-flagellation rituals. For a while at the beginning this happened through essentially trying to carve out the problematic content through yfip lists and masterposts discussing (x) in a tv show, which, the way it was usually performed, acted as a kind of a social exorcism people would do to distance themselves and remove this thing from being associated with them, done more out of fear of being called out next, directly or not. And this was done in repetition. Idk if anyone remembers when macklemore or miley cyrus twerking on robin thicke were like the biggest controversies around here, but when that stuff happened it felt like pretty much every other post on your dashboard was criticism about those things for at least a couple weeks, beating a dead horse over and over, repeating things we all already knew about it to each other.

So Sherlock was kind of a prime target for the kind of “problematic” discourse around fandom that emerged out of this website and mutated into forms of harassment, because it was the most visible out of the three (and it has some obvious real issues people could latch onto). I’ve said this before but it really is a Rorschach test of the 21st century… if someone brings it up and talks shit about it for longer then ten seconds you know something is up lol. So when sherlock fans say their show is good* generally and they like it it’s like crossing some kind of unspoken tradition, because in order to be a Good Person on the internet you have to self-flagellate and somehow remove yourself from the supposed Bad Things about it, which even if you admit to the bad things that are legitimate, is kind of a lost cause at this point in time, since it’s been so publicly engrained that the show is bad because some fandoms were maybe annoying several years ago. It doesn’t matter how many awards it’s won and been nominated for. And obviously we’ve all talked endlessly about how much the rise of tjlc 1.0 and the aftermath was integral to changing public internet opinion.

It’s why people remember all the cringey and supposedly bad things about tumblr in other parts of the internet, because people compartmentalize everything by their own experiences and how they consume it much more often then what the thing is actually like, and things that are recently behind them are part of their own personal character arc and their own self-mythology, so why don’t other people think of it the same way they do? We must be monsters of our own making.

#I’m sorry that things that aren’t Sherlock are bad lol #and just to be clear in case some of this sounds vague I’m against pro-shippers and and for moderation in fandom