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emihotaru · 15 days

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Sketchy and experimenting time!

Here is an illustration of the first chapter of "Giving Sanctuary", a Sandman and Dreamling fanfic by @avelera .

It begins in 1689, in the White Horse tavern, and I tried to render the candlelight atmosphere we can see in the show. I improvised a lot with my black ink and my watercolors and wanted to keep the sketchy vibes. I had quite a hard time with Dream's all black clothes...

I totally want to draw more moments of this story! Maybe one by chapter? I'll see^^

#my art #fanfic #dreamling #dream x hob #morpheus x hob #hob gadling #the sandman dream #the sandman netflix #sandman dream #dream of the endless #giving sanctuary

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avelera · 10 months

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Sandman Meta: Hob has exactly zero way of figuring out who Dream is (before they reunite)

More than once in a fic I've written from Hob's POV I've had readers note their astonishment that Hob has not yet figured out Dream's identity, even if Dream does not reveal it himself.

Even in fics of mine where Dream reveals his name, like in Giving Sanctuary, I have Hob be slow on the uptake when it comes to the extent of Dream's powers, even things like being able to enter and control dreams, and the reason I do this is carefully considered and based in the fact that Hob would have no way of knowing who Dream is or by extension what he can do.

So I kind of want to take a step back and address in detail just how actually impossible it would be, objectively, for Hob to figure out who Dream is in a world that doesn't have The Sandman comic for him to read to figure it out.

This is, of course, because, from a Doylist angle, Neil's "Dream of the Endless" is not based in any single mythology. Indeed, Dream as we know him is cobbled together from at least three or more different mythological figures, none of which combine to actually form the "Dream of the Endless" we see in the show or read in the comics. The Endless are completely made up for the comic and the Sandman, Morpheus, and Oneiros are all from wildly different mythologies and none of them actually overlap to form the complete picture of who Dream is as an entity in the Sandman show or comic.

So even if someone straight-up told Hob that the person he meets is the Sandman, Morpheus, or Oneiros (btw, there is no singular figure of "Oneiros" in Greek mythology) he would still not be able to put together the full picture of who Dream is. Even if he's given the name "Dream of the Endless" to work with, those words combined don't mean anything on their own if you don't have what an Endless is filled in, because it was made up entirely for the comic. (Of course, a fanfic author absolutely could make up such a book for their fic but it would be a creation for that fic, serving a purpose within that story like to tip Hob off, though I think it's entirely reasonable to make up a book in the Sandman world that goes into detail on who the Endless are. The Magdalene Grimoire, btw, is not that book. It only talks about Death. Death is a figure in many mythologies including the Christian one, but Dream is not. Even Burgess needs the Corinthian to tell him who Dream is in the show, and he's an occultist.)

Couple all of this with Hob's personal experience with Dream, encountering him as part of a wager with Dream's sister Death to see if Hob could bear a life of immortality, you get far more clues that would send him hurtling off into a totally incorrect direction before you'd get anything close to the truth, if we assume only the books available in our world are available to him.

So the reason this is a bit of an irritation for me that there's this idea that Hob has "all the clues" to figure out who Dream is because it smacks of a logical fallacy.

Basically, it's easy to see that the answer to a complicated math problem is "obvious" if someone just hands the answer to you. But challenging people to actually solve it themselves could be quite a bit more complicated. And in this complex formula solving for "Who the fuck is Hob's mysterious stranger?" there's actually so many blank X's of unanswered questions that I genuinely think there's no way for Hob to solve this equation without someone giving him the answer.

Let's go through this systematically, using just what Hob knows as observed on screen in the show.

1389 - a pale man in all black with a ruby at his throat approaches Hob's table and challenges Hob to meet him there in 100 years. He then smiles enigmatically and leaves.

That's it. That's all Hob has to go off of. He never sees Death, he has no idea about the wager. As far as he knows, Dream gave him immortality. It would be the most logical conclusion given that the day before Hob didn't have immortality and the day after, presumably, he does.

1489 - The only confirmation he has is actually seeing Dream there in 1489 and the first thing he asks is, "How did you know that I'd be here?"

Dream does not answer him. Hob takes a few stabs at guessing his identity which reveals his Christian European context: are you a wizard, or a saint -- to be clear, these are two types of human magic users that make sense to Hob for his context. The only other figure he can think of is The Devil. He doesn't ask if Dream is a pagan god or a faerie, he assumes a man with arcane or divine magic, or the Devil.

Dream says that he's not the Devil, much good that would do if he was a Devil who could just presumably lie to Hob, and says he's interested in Hob's experience and implies that he will grant him another 100 years of life. He is sarcastic and unimpressed about Hob's wonder at the world. He doesn't even actually show much interest in Hob being in the printing business. He only shows a spark of interest in Hob's continued desire to live, and then immediately takes off.

1589 - The only new information Hob gets this year is 1) Dream is supremely uninterested in food or the wealth Hob has earned, or his family, and 2) puny little Will Shaxberd, a crap playwright with no shot at becoming anything more, suddenly becomes a famous playwright. He would eventually become a renowned playwright in his day but keep in mind, Shakespeare didn't actually become mega famous centuries after his death. In his day, many people thought other playwrights like Marlowe were better.

My point is, from this Hob doesn't necessarily get even the pieces to determine that Dream likes art. It might seem obvious to us because Dream is Prince of Stories, but that's not the offer Dream gives Shaxberd. He just asks if it is Will's will to create dreams to spur the minds of men. Yes, we know that Dream wants Will to make dreams for him, but in Hob's context, Dream is just asking what Will would sell his soul for, just like he overheard Hob saying he had no intention of dying. From this perspective the only strong conclusion Hob can draw is that Dream grants wishes.

From this, Hob could conclude that Dream is a djinn/genie, or perhaps a faerie, but there is absolutely nothing to indicate he's associated with dreams or literature directly besides a mention of creating dreams nested in the context of asking Shaxberd what he wants, giving him a supernatural gift much like the one Hob believes Dream gave him.

At this point, the domains of Dream's power are very muddled for Hob because he doesn't know Death gave him immortality. So as far as he knows, Dream can give immortality AND make an amateur playwright into the greatest writer who ever lived. Putting these two things together does not bring you naturally to the domain of dreams by any stretch.

(I will note here, that in Giving Sanctuary, I had Hob learn that "Death" is Dream's sister before he learns Dream's name. There, his initial conclusion is that Dream must therefore be Famine, one of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse and the one known for wearing black (and not eating seems like a clue with Dream too) my point being that having another, small piece of the whole puzzle still would probably send him flying off in the wrong direction given his cultural context.)

1789: The next time Hob gets any hint that Dream has powers is with Lady Johanna. He uses his sand to show her her, "old ghosts". Note, she does not fall asleep but rather begins to hallucinate.

The Sandman myth has its origins of Scandinavia and it is first written down in in "Der Sandmann" a context that Hob might have access to, if he's very well read, in the early 1800s. By the way, the description of the Sandman in that book bears a striking resemblance to the Corinthian, because he eats the eyes of naughty children, and very little to Dream beyond the use of sand in his magic.

There is absolutely nothing to link the Sandman to Morpheus the Roman God of Dreams, who was made up entirely by Ovid in the Metamorphoses and never mentioned anywhere before that. That's because Neil Gaiman was the first to link those two mythological figures.

And on that note, there is no Oneiros attested to in Hesiod. The mention of Oneiros is actually to the "Oneiroi" an entire tribe of dreams and nightmares who are the children of Night (Nix). There's Hypnos (Sleep) who is the brother of Thanatos (Death) but that is about as close as we get to the Endless in any other mythological source besides the comics. And again, Dream does not put Johanna to sleep, he makes her hallucinate.

1889- Again, there is precious little to go off of. Dream is tight-lipped as ever. The only thing he gives away is that Lady Johanna later helped him with a task, a fact Hob is visibly annoyed and I daresay jealous about, and when he lashes out he refers to himself as, "One such as I."

But "One such as I," only reveals something Hob already knew: that Dream thinks highly of himself. That doesn't actually reveal that Dream is even magical, he could just be nobility or a powerful immortal magic user and refer to himself that way. Hob already knows that Dream is magical, and immortal, and probably some sort of high born or aristocrat. He's probably known that since 1389 given how Dream was dressed and given that giant fuck-off ruby (which actually might make Hob, in that day, wonder if Dream was a relation to the Black Prince)

That's it. That is the grand total of everything Hob has seen of Dream.

Hob in the comic will eventually admit, in The Wake, that he figured out who Dream was on his own. But this is after Seasons of Mist when Dream toasts him in Hob's dream and Hob wakes up with the impossible bottle of wine on his bedside. He has another encounter too with Dream where Dream eventually accedes to Hob's request to make the men who killed Audrey, his dead girlfriend, know who she was. Presumably, Dream makes them dream of her.

So Hob in the comics by the time we get to The Wake has more to go off of to make the link to the Lord of Dreams. Hob as we see him in the show, has had much less to go off of.

Even if you give Hob one piece of the puzzle, like one of the names like Morpheus, or The Sandman, or Oneiros, that still doesn't help give him the whole picture. The word "Endless" would be meaningless. He would have to have read at least three pretty obscure books that span a period of 2,000 years (between Hesiod and Der Sandmann) to get the three books that Neil primarily drew from to combine these figures into the Dream of the comic.

Look, my point is, unless someone gives the answer to Hob, and explains the full extent of what the Endless are, he's got little to go off of. Arguably, not enough at all to solve for "X" as to who Dream is, even if he's given more pieces. This would be a tough problem to solve.

#the sandman #sandman meta #hob gadling #dreamling #1689 fic #Giving Sanctuary

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mayhemspreadingguy · 1 year

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“If I had known that I was always doomed to lose him so young…That there was nothing I could do to change his fate…” Dream swallowed and when he spoke again the unshakeable calm of his voice wavered and finally broke, “I would have told him how I loved him, each day when he woke and each night while he dreamed. I would have embraced Eurydice as if she were my own daughter. I would have danced at their wedding.”

“I know,” Hob tightened his arms around Dream. “I know you would have.”

Giving Sanctuary by @avelera

This fic absolutely destroyed me! One of my favourites! Love it! 💕

I had it marked for later and avoided to read it because at the time it was already considerably long and I didn't really have the time for it (I have no self-control I'm hopeless binge reader so it would totally fuck up my schedule). I decided to read it not long ago aaaand then I caught up... to chapter 18 😭. WHY WHYYY WHAT A TERRIBLE TIME TO CATCH UP!?!??!!!

#dreamling #1689 fic #giving sanctuary #hob gadling #dream of the endless #this wip was sitting in my folder for a week but i didn't really feel like finishing it but today i felt pretty distressed and it got me #but today i felt pretty distressed which led me back to this sketch #and drawing this was kinda therapeutic #oh well #did i say how much i love this fic? of course i did. but I'll say it AGAIN! because it's absolutely brilliant!!!!#mayhem art

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virgo-dream · 1 year

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In 1689, Hob Gadling and Dream meet once more, after Hob has lost everything. That night, their meeting goes on longer than expected when the conversation turns to what it means to live, to lose, and to be the fathers of dead sons. Unable to bear the thought of sending a man who so echoes Dream's own grief back into the night alone, Dream breaks his own rule and invites Hob to stay with him for a time, at least until he can get back on his feet.

giving sanctuary by @avelera

#dreamling #dream of the endless #hob gadling #hob x dream #hob x morpheus #dreamling fanfic #ao3 fanfic #avelera #my edits #giving sanctuary #virgos fic bible #fic rec

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arialerendeair · 1 year

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I was curious about the unhinged comments in question (which were awesome) so I actually compared word counts and you came in a mere 754 words shy of the Giving Sanctuary Chapter 21 word count - 9761 words vs 10,515 words.

LOL, I'm glad that you enjoyed my screaming - it was the single best way that I could honor how amazing that particular story is, and that chapter.

I knew that @avelera had been fighting the muse on GS, so I had resolved to write the comment I had been planning in my head for weeks now, because I'd read Chapter 21 so many times that point, that I probably could have recited some of it.

So, I took a note from @foodsies4me's book (who writes comments that regularly make me want to sob) and decided to just... comment on the whole chapter. All of it. Piece by piece, analyzing, commenting, screaming over, all of it. It was a book report and screaming session all in one.

All 6 comments took me the better part of 4.5 hours to write, lol, but it was so worth it. So, so, SO worth it.

(Even more worth it when I found out that we're gonna get some Dream POV from Chapter 21 as a result and I'm gonna fucking die over that.)

#Aria Posts #Giving Sanctuary #Avelera #I have no regrets about my level of screaming #None whatsoever #This is one of those things that I will defend forever #My right to utterly unhinged screaming #I understand not everyone has the energy for that and it's perfectly okay #But I know what it means to me when someone does that #So being able to give that back to another author means the world to me #ESPECIALLY WHEN I AM AS OBSESSED OVER THE FIC AS I AM WITH THIS ONE #You would never guess that I was far more obsessed with CLWM than GS back when they both started #NOW GS OWNS MY HEART AND SOUL #And like I said #No regrets

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fics-recommendations · 1 year

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Giving Sanctuary

The story of two grief-stricken, divorced, and widowed fathers to sons they lost too young truly seeing one another and there, at their lowest point, doing their best to put themselves and each other back together.

Read it here by Avelera

#Giving Sanctuary #dreamling #p

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mo-mode · 4 months

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Okay but quick super random thought: If monsters can still come back from Tartarus after Medusa turns them to stone, but their former stone self is still there…do you think a monster has ever happened upon the emporium a second time, seen themselves, and gotten some crazy deja vu?

Has someone ever come over, seen their friend’s statue and gone “HAH her face looks so dumb in this one, I’m gonna buy it and give it to her as a gag gift” Do some people return immediately after and kick down the door like “hey SNAKE LADY that’s kinda fucked up that you put me in the FRONT for everyone to see!!! Anyway, I forgot my bag-“ Has anyone ever purposefully come over to get a sculpture of themselves, and they just come back a month later for it?

If Medusa can’t kill monsters, she must have made some friends along the way, and I think that’s an adorable idea. I hope she started a book club or something, and that’s why she has such a big dining table.

#I JUST HOPE SHE HEALS AND MAKES FRIENDS OKAY #SHE’S JADED AND TRAUMATIZED BUT I THINK THE OTHER MONSTERS WOULD LIKE HER #ALSO SHE’S A REALLY GOOD BAKER #Headcanon that the emporium is a sanctuary for some monsters who are just tired of being killed #that’s why Medusa has the hat so her besties can feel safe #percy jackson #percy jackon and the olympians #percy jackson and the olympians #pjo #percy jackson the lightning thief #percy jackson tv show #pjo disney+#pjo tv show #pjo spoilers #medusa #go girl give us everything

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avelera · 2 months

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THE BOOK IS FINALLY HERE!!! thank you again so much for letting me get it bound!!! it came out great and i have a video but it won’t let me add it to the ask, let me know if you want it!!!

!!!!

Oh my gosh!!!

This is incredible 😭😭😭😭

#1689 fic #dreamling #giving sanctuary #forgive my silence it’s been a bit rough lately but I am Kermit flailing right now

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silverskye13 · 3 months

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okay i know that this is just An Cathedral, and Hels is full of them, but the thought of Tanguish doing God Help The Outcasts in the Saint of Blood and Steel's Church unaware that the Saint himself is *right there* and holding a grudge about it is sending me. smh the real reason he wants to get rid of Tanguish is that he keeps turning his shrine into a musical theater

Oh, Tanguish is singing in the Saint's Church! We haven't gotten there yet [and probably won't for awhile because I have the writer's block of the century] but Tanguish doesn't like the Saint of Blood and Steel. They don't agree on key points about what makes someone worthy of being given love and reassurance by a higher power. That's fine though. The Saint doesn't care if people like them. The Saint only cares if they are fighting for a worthy cause.

Anyway, have a sneak peak of the Saint's Altar [based off of the altar at Notre Dame]

The Saint's statue is actually a lot bigger than this, I just can't draw it massive easily, so,,, here's a small guy instead. His actual statue is probably around 50ft tall, with a sword made of red glass. The guy in the comic is probably closer to 20ft tall, so decent parts of him can fit in a panel without the foreshortening ruining everything.