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thelightofthingshopedfor · 3 years

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lol okay so I dashed off most of this the day of and then kept not posting it because I kept thinking I needed to add stuff, but then I ended up adding more stuff mostly in reblogs instead (should all be under the “my meta” tag if anyone’s curious) and now episode 2 is technically coming out tomorrow night in my time zone so obviously I need to just post this. bullet points of disconnected thoughts, some of which are probably at least slightly outdated by now but whatever, here you go

seems very possible Mobius left the tape with him on purpose because he figured Loki wouldn’t be able to resist looking at it

would have to check the timing but I’m pretty sure he started looking terrified as soon as Thanos came onscreen without really knowing the context (aside from the very basic outline of “it’s been several years and he reconciled with Thor”), which at least underscores that they weren’t buddies--Loki knew something awful was about to happen the second Thanos showed up sadly this is not true, the clip he sees first is him trying to stab Thanos, so...yeah it stands to reason that he’d know it was about to end badly no matter what

other people have mentioned this but I love that we got to see Loki just like...existing?? like I know he’s never been the protagonist before and seeing him as the protagonist has always been one of the things that’s excited me most about the show, but now that it’s here I’m just kind of struck by how HE’S THE PROTAGONIST so we’re getting all these emotions and little gestures and moments when he’s alone that we only got in tiny, sadly easy-to-overlook snatches before (and it also occurred to me that I don’t think we’ve ever seen Loki eat anything, which is something else that might change)

also his projection is fascinating, and so is the fact that he explicitly turned it around on himself, which seems relevant to all the theories about a lot of his other statements (”freedom is life’s great lie,” most of what he said to Natasha, etc.) being things that were drummed into him on Sanctuary rather than stuff he just came up with on his own, so that seems to cover a lot of the stuff he says in Avengers and here

on the other hand it seems unlikely we’re ever going to get confirmation that Bad Stuff happened to him on Sanctuary aside from what we already saw in Avengers, which is frustrating, although to be fair I also wasn’t expecting to see Loki crying about his family in the first episode (and the most I’m really hoping for, still, is that nothing will explicitly contradict the idea, so...we’re good on that thus far, I guess)

so the first half of the episode was...ehhh, I don’t know, but the second half was amazing. I know some people didn’t like that part either, but I felt like...okay, I don’t love him being humiliated so I would’ve preferred different framing for some of this BUT a lot of casual viewers still see Loki as a cackling caricature without having picked up on any of the stuff that very clearly showed otherwise, and this show wants to treat Loki as a person, someone worthy of audience sympathy, so they kind of had to go in hard and fast on that aspect to get everyone up to speed. like, yes, fans who’ve been paying attention know that Loki’s a person, that he’s wounded, that he doesn’t hurt people just because it’s fun for him, that he feels things very deeply, that he loves his family, but somehow the mainstream perception of him has missed like 85% of that, and the show’s just not going to have much impact unless it gets everybody on board with those very basic ideas. in terms of story structure it probably doesn’t make sense for this to be his lowest point, but starting from the bottom and eventually getting somewhere better is fairly standard, so at this point I can imagine tons of ways things could improve for him

yeah I do hate the whole Sacred Timeline thing, see also my posts about how much I loved that Endgame canonically (I thought) established multiple timelines where everything was fine, so yeah I’m pissed about that because it means those timelines were canonically pruned

like I don’t...hate it as a storytelling device? I just hate it for fandom reasons, and I’ve hated it in other fandoms when canon did something that seemed to open things up to all this incredible possibility and then went “actually no, we’re boxing it up again into this one specific Way That Things Happened” and for fanwork purposes it doesn’t matter all that much, I don’t think it’s actually that much harder to do AUs or go “okay well in this universe the TVA doesn’t exist, whatever” (in fact I wouldn’t be surprised if AO3 quickly develops a new canonical “not TVA compliant” tag for basically all Loki fic), but it is annoying that it’s now like “canonically, every AU is Not Allowed”, and if that ends up sticking as the status quo with the TVA considered good guys or at least a necessary evil then yeah, I’m going to be annoyed

HOWEVER

I don’t think that’s inevitable for a variety of reasons

this whole show is going to deal with multiverse shenanigans and so will Dr. Strange 2, so it seems completely possible that the end result could be a status quo of “there’s a multiverse actually and that’s fine” (...although yes, I’ll be doubly annoyed if the end result of this show is a restored multiverse of some kind and the end result of Dr. Strange 2 is condensing it back down to a single timeline)

the multiverse is a long-running comics tradition, which still seems to be the case even after...whatever event it was that collided a bunch of them and tried for a Highlander thing, look I wasn’t really following it and I know some characters ended up in other universes from where they started but I’m pretty sure we still have a multiverse of some kind

almost all the recent Loki-centric comics have focused on questions of fate and agency

Agent of Asgard in particular was about Loki eventually going “fuck you I won’t do what you tell me” and forging a new path (and, okay, it does seem like runs other than AoA have been the most influential here but again we’ve only seen one episode)

Loki, specifically, is an agent of chaos and change, like that’s his whole thing going way back to mythology, because sometimes stagnancy is death and chaos is healthy, and of course myth!Loki (and earlier versions of comics!Loki) is always responsible for triggering Ragnarok, which isn’t just the end of the world but is also a natural, crucial part of a cycle of renewal, and yes the MCU already did Ragnarok but that doesn’t at all mean they can’t play more with those ideas

Tom Hiddleston has brought up this specific point several times in recent interviews, that sometimes chaos is the one thing that's really needed

also, on Jimmy Kimmel the day of the episode, he kind of...planted a seed about the TVA maybe not being uncomplicated good guys because seriously what gives them the right to make these decisions for literally everyone

so at the very least I think it’s completely possible that things aren’t quite what they seem, and that for instance we’re supposed to discover that Mobius is consciously manipulating him to turn him into the type of tool the TVA wants him to be

also “the timeline wants to break free” shows up on a lot of merch, which does seem to indicate a free will vs. predestination theme

I’m not at all familiar with comics!TVA, although I understand they’re considered villains (although to be fair, so were the Skrulls, and at least thus far that’s been inverted for the MCU), but their whole thing reminded me of a few other entities in a way that could be relevant:

the tape running out was like the Norns cutting the thread of somebody’s life

Those Who Sit Above In Shadow in AoA (and also maybe whatever was below the God Quarry in Infinity Wars although I’m less familiar with that)

the gods in Cabin In The Woods, who were also kind of audience proxies in that they really just cared about the sacrifice being entertaining, which kinda seems like the only logical reason for the Timekeepers to prefer any given series of events over another

my personal hope for the series: the Timekeepers are ultimately the Big Bad and the rogue Loki variant is ultimately right in trying to wipe out the TVA (because sure I realize it’s maybe dumb of me but I still don’t want any Loki to be completely a bad guy!!); the major named TVA characters realize they’re the baddies actually and team up with a whole army of Lokis to take them down and GIVE US BACK OUR MULTIVERSE

#meta #my meta #loki meta #loki spoilers #loki series spoilers #loki show spoilers #loki show #loki #marvel cinematic universe

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littlelonghairedoutlawllho · 4 years

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Poto AUs- I don’t know if this question is controversial? Ages ago I saw a thread about whether an E/C fic *had* to feature a redemptive-first-kiss-that-changed-everything and/or a kidnap situation and/or threatening Raoul’s life in order to be in character/legitimate. How does the phandom feel about this now? If it’s AU, does that give the author the right to be... OOC for canon, as long as its in character for that AU-verse? Tl;dr how much of the original plot must be incorporated? Thanks :)

Not a controversial question *at all* Nonnie! And I feel a little touched that you decided to ask me! ❤❤❤

I can’t speak for the phandom at large and I’m sure there are people out there who disagree with me, but as far as I’m concerned an AU can be as AU as the author wants! If every E/C fic *had* to have all of those ingredients you mentioned then we’d be living in a world of very boring E/C fic tbh.

Here’s a secret, the original plot doesn’t even have to be incorporated at all. That’s true of any fic, not just something that’s marked as AU. A fic where everything changes pre-canon wipes out the canon and sets its own path. A fic with a wholly different setting has hundreds of ways it can be told. Not to mention things like soulmate AUs where holding to the original plot would go against the AU.

I’m a historian so I approach AUs from the perspective of a historian and as far as I’m concerned context is everything. By changing one little thing in the context you’re already writing an AU because there’s no telling what that little change can do. And if that one little thing in, say, Erik’s background means he doesn’t threaten Raoul’s life, then that’s perfectly in character. If you changed his background in that way and still had him threaten Raoul then he’d be acting OOC for the fic and it wouldn’t ring true.

Canon only matters in so far as canon has inspired you to write the thing. After that, canon doesn’t matter a damn.

If every E/C fic *had* to include all those things then a) the fic is treading the same paths as every other fic and there isn’t a whole lot of room to introduce new things that make it exciting, and b) you’re writing so close to canon that what is there different for Christine to choose Erik in the end? Sure you might change the setting but if you’re keeping the characters as they are in canon then that setting change doesn’t matter very much at all except now they might have computers and cars or whatever. And if you’re changing the setting then you can’t keep the characters as they are in canon because you’ve gone and changed their whole context. It just wouldn’t be doing justice to the new story you want to tell.

I’ve written *a lot* of E/C. I’ve never written a story that has all of those things in it. The closest I’ve come are spin-offs of Kay where they’ve already happened in the background. They’ve become part of the context and allow me to tell a new story going forward. But even then I’ve only done that a couple of times. Mostly when I sit down to write an E/C AU I change the context so much that there is no justification for these things to be included. I’ve literally written a modern AU where they’re Irish grad students but Erik came from a loving family and is only a couple of years older than Christine. An exploration of a world where he didn’t need to be redeemed but he’s no less Erik and she’s no less Christine, they’re just different. Never mind the AU where she’s a time traveller and loves him in her own time and he’s in his early 30s and a computer scientist, or the AU where it’s 1885 in Wyoming and he’s a town’s marshal and she’s a mail-order bride.

I’m glad I didn’t see that thread you saw because I would have words about it.

Anyone who tries to prescribe what somebody should write, ought to take a good hard look at themselves and why they’re doing that. Fic is fic, it’s literally created by the fans, and canon is dead. It’s relevance is only what inspiration it can provide. A fic is not better or worse just because it’s more authentic to somebody’s conception of canon, it’s just different and different is good. And anyway, a fic where Christine does choose Erik is already deviating from canon to make her do so, a deviation within her own character, so to be expected to write everything else the same is just ridiculous.

Nobody has the right to gatekeep in fandom. Ever. Saying that an E/C fic *has* to include all these things? That’s gatekeeping. It’s not right and it’s extremely limiting, and it’s someone trying to mould a fandom to their own ideals.

An E/C fic does not have to do anything except have Erik and Christine get together at the end. And it doesn’t even have to do that.

In an AU -- and not just in an AU, in any fic, because even the canon compliant fics might be true to the events of canon but they’re also a retelling -- the author has the right to write it whichever way they damn well please. And anyone else who says differently can come at me. I’ve been in a lot of fandoms. I’ve been reading fic for nearly 9 years now across those fandoms. And I can assure you there are fandoms out there where this wouldn’t even be a question because it’s accepted that the fic writer has the right to write the characters whichever way they want. There are fandoms out there with a huge and beautiful array of AUs and it’s just a pity that we don’t have such a wide selection of them here, though there is more AU fic being written than there was and that’s a great thing.

If the characters are acting in a way that’s authentic for them in the world that you’ve created, then that’s all matters.

Go out there and write whatever fic you want, Nonnie. You have my blessing. So long as you enjoy it, it’ll be just fine.

#shauna replies #anonymous #fandom #i got fired up writing this and i'm not sorry

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greyias · 4 years

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FIC: Smoke and Mirrors - Chapter 2

Title: Smoke and Mirrors Fandom: SWTOR Pairing: Theron Shan/f!Jedi Knight Rating: T Genre: Pre-Relationship, Slow Burn Synopsis: Something’s rotten on Carrick Station, and Theron won’t rest until he finds out what. But picking at the frayed threads of suspicion quickly unravels a conspiracy much larger than even the Republic’s top spy can handle on his own. (A mostly canon-compliant retelling of the Forged Alliances storyline, as seen through the eyes of Theron Shan.) Author’s Notes and Spoilers: See Chapter 1.

Rather than head back to the Heorem Complex, Theron decided to review his notes and the personnel files back at his apartment. While he didn’t really care all that much if he attracted a few looks for his unkempt appearance from the all-nighter he just pulled, the thought of perusing the data in the comfort of his own bed was too tempting to pass up. If he needed to do any research that required heavier security protocols than what he already had in place, he could always head in at that point.

As he sunk into the mattress, he pulled up the file on the first member of the Coruscant Aegis, codename “Guardian”. Known in wider circles as Barsen’thor, the newest member of the Jedi High Council. He managed to make it about a third of the way through the file before his chin dropped as he started to nod off. Unable to let Marcus Trant be right about anything, Theron woke himself up with a quick shower in the refresher before powering through the rest of the file. From what he could tell “Guardian” was more than capable, but a quick search of the HoloNet showed that the Jedi Master was in Temesher on a diplomatic mission. If the underground chatter was to be believed, “Ace”, the Voidhound, was similarly occupied. Although probably for less legitimate business then the Jedi Master. He filed both of them away as potential assets for future operations, but moved on to the next file.

He paged through the dossier on “Meteor”, liking what he was seeing. Leader of Havoc Squad, a fellow recipient of the Cross of Glory, and had a whole squad of heavy hitters that could be tapped into. The major had been a key player in taking out the Gauntlet — one of the weapons designed by Darth Mekhis. The dossier was long, and by the time he got to the end, he was tempted to just call it there for Havoc Squad so he could feel justified in giving into the temptation to close his eyes for a few minutes. (Not to mention it’d drive Jonas Balkar nuts if Theron sniped his favorite operative.)

However, he’d had left the most intriguing one for last. He’d be lying if he said he wasn’t dying of curiosity to be able to review more details of the Sith Emperor’s demise. Even so, he massaged his temples, the tension mounting behind his implants letting him know he was going to need a break here soon if he had any hope of continuing to focus. This dossier was just as long as the rest, and his eyes almost crossed looking at the text.

“Okay,” he admitted quietly, “may need a break.”

He was loathe to take one, though, considering the narrow window of opportunity they were having to work with. He compromised by making a large pot of stimcaf, nowhere near the quality of Jace’s stash, but still decent enough to get the job done. While it brewed, he closed his eyes and focused his mind, acknowledging the fatigue and need for sleep, before releasing it out. By the time the caf maker chimed that it was ready, the tension headache had faded to the far corner of his consciousness. He would still need to sleep later, but this would help him focus for a few more hours.

With a mug of caf in hand as well as a sandwich to stave off hunger, Theron pulled up a chair far from the bed, and whipped out the dossier on the last candidate, codename “Shield”.

While not exactly a household name, the Hero of Tython was definitely not an unknown player on the galactic scale, especially in the intelligence community. For some reason, she kept getting recruited into SIS operations, and her notoriety had started to spread beyond that after she had halted Darth Malgus’s attempted coup.

The dossier began with her apprenticeship on Tython to Orgus Din, one of the living legends of the first Galactic War. As he pored over the details, he couldn’t help but frown, his earlier statement to Jace coming to mind. It was a little hard to believe that one person had wound up doing so much in such a short time. Capturing a dark Jedi while an apprentice, exposing and defeating a Sith infiltrator on Coruscant, saving several planets from Darth Angral’s campaign of destruction.

When he started seeing familiar names crop up in the report, Theron grabbed a spare datapad with a secure connection and pulled up the relevant SIS reports. He was familiar enough with several of the agents involved, and was curious if there were any extra details to be gleaned outside of the official dossier. He mostly just found more operations that weren’t in the main dossier, including one from Agent Fauler on his takedown of a Czerka coverup on Tatooine.

At least an hour had passed, and he was only a third finished with the main dossier. He was about halfway through the pot of caf, and was starting to get irritated with the glowing reviews from his fellow agents, when the main dossier got… interesting.

As in, Shan family lineage interesting. He’d only been lightly skimming the portion of her work with Oteg, the Jedi commander of the Telos, until he saw the mention of the Maelstrom Prison, and namely, it’s sole prisoner: Revan.

He thought that the fate of the famous off-and-on-again Jedi Knight and Sith Lord had been lost to history. Apparently after passing on the family genes, he’d gone after the Sith Emperor himself and failed. Only to be rescued from his three-hundred year imprisonment by the woman who ultimately finished the job.

Theron frowned, finger tapping the side of the datapad absently. He was never a big fan of coincidences and he wasn’t a believer in fate or destiny. The connection between Revan and this woman was pretty glaringly obvious, and if Master Zho was still around, he probably would have said it was the will of the Force. An angry bitterness rose up in the back of his throat, but Theron managed to push it down just below the surface.

After his failed apprenticeship under Nagani Zho, Theron had tried to put his whole ancestry behind him. If the Force didn’t want anything to do with him, he wanted to return the favor. He’d managed to do just that for almost a decade, when apparently it decided to pull him back into the fold with his mission with Master Zho and Teff’ith to the Vesla system, and then later with Gnost-Dural and the Ascendant Spear.

He shoved the stupid coincidence and happenstance to the back of his mind, but there was still the lingering question of Revan’s fate. The official records were sparse, just that he had been rescued from the prison built for him in the Maelstrom Nebula, and had fallen in battle with Imperials in the Nanth’ri system before he could ever see the end of the Emperor who held him prisoner for so long. It seemed like such ignoble end for the legendary Knight, but then again life wasn’t fair.

The bitterness still burned in his throat, but Theron forced himself to focus back on his original task rather than this side-trek down the family album, and pulled back up the excessively long dossier.

Except as he stared at the text, his brain had latched onto something. He blew out a breath, took another sip of the bitter brew in attempt to convince himself that was what he was tasting rather than his own feelings. He looked back over the section on Revan again, eyes falling on the location of the prison he’d been rescued from.

The Maelstrom Nebula… why was that familiar?

He pulled up a galactic map, and the Maelstrom Nebula was located on the borders of the Albarrio and Relgim sectors. And Oteg commanded the Telos. He blinked at the map, watching the pixelated swirls of green space dust whirl in the air. The Jedi that had discovered the key piece of intel for the upcoming operation had served during that campaign. Of course, the crew manifest for the Telos was large. It was a warship. A lot of people had served on it. The holo flickered, and Theron stared at it, that same funny feeling settling over him, raising the hairs on the back of his neck. He continued to glare at the map, as if he could connect the two dots by sheer force and willpower.

Whatever it was, it wasn’t coming to him. With a sigh, he pulled back up the dossier, and continued reading. The sooner he finished this file, the sooner he could make his decision and call it a night.

Next up was the mission on Balmorra, which on the surface appeared to be aiding the resistance and helping fight off the Empire. However, Theron had read enough redacted files to tell when details were being conveniently left out. He recalled his brief partnership with Master Gnost-Dural, and the revelation that the Jedi did their own intelligence gathering. It made sense that they would also have their own version of black ops.

Theron continued down the rabbit hole, from the side-trip to Quesh, through the adventures on Hoth. There were a lot of flashy rescues, a few high profile military operations, and some side missions for the Grand Master herself, before “Shield” showed up again on Belsavis.

About halfway through the section on Belsavis, he frowned, remembering the riots fairly clearly. Partially because he’d been there for part of it. He retraced back to the last few missions on Hoth, searching for the detail that he missed. It wasn’t there, but as he started reviewing the dates, it struck him what <i>was</i> missing.

About six plus months.

No mention of any duties or activities, just a sudden jump in time. Theron quickly started a search on his other datapad, but as he delved further and further into the details of Shield’s personal life, he still couldn’t find anything regarding what she’d been up to during the time in question. No record of a leave of absence, no MIA report, no purchase history, or travel dossiers, just a giant hole that had been carefully written around. Not even a whisper or mention of her in any Republic records, almost like she hadn’t been there at all during the time.

Someone had wiped this woman’s record clean of something they didn’t want getting out.

He glared at the datapad, as if it was directly responsible for the deed. It was enough of a red flag for him that he almost closed the file right there, regardless of the glowing recommendations of his fellow agents and the obvious admiration and confidence of both the Jedi Grand Master and the Supreme Commander.

But damn it, he hadn’t even gotten to the part about the Emperor yet. He didn’t set his reservation aside, though, even as he resumed his review of the dossier. The contents had definitely taken a turn for the darker, as he read about death cults, insanity rituals, the capture of several dark Jedi, and the liberation of Corellia.

Somewhere, buried within all of the heroics (did this woman ever sleep?), he found the reason for the urgency, and the sudden dark turn. It was a small line, possibly hastily tacked on to the end of the report regarding a fallen Jedi Master, Tol Braga, that discussed a dark side ritual to…

Theron felt his stomach drop, and re-read the line again just to be sure.

No, he’d read it right the first time. The Sith, or at least the Emperor’s inner circle, had been trying to complete a dark side ritual that would annihilate all life in the galaxy.

He tried to ignore the cold feeling of dread as he moved on in the dossier. He was finally to the part about Dromund Kaas and the raid on the Dark Temple. What he found curious, and if he were being honest with himself, more than a little impressive, was the account that Shield had taken on the Emperor by herself, with only a T7 unit as backup. The mission was what had earned her a Cross of Glory, as well as the rest of her crew (even the droid and Sith on her crew).

The rest of her exploits after that were a little wider known, things he had heard of, if he hadn’t exactly connected the name with the deed until now. Taking down Darth Malgus, saving the people of Makeb, even that whole mess with Czerka on CZ-198.

Damn it.

He kneaded his forehead as his tension headache started to creep through, his frustration mounting. Any of the Coruscant Aegis would be equipped to handle the Korriban job, but only one of them had already stormed an Imperial world in a similar manner. The fact that the little Jedi overachiever just kept saving the galaxy at every turn made it harder for him to ignore.

Except that someone had scrubbed her records to hide something. Considering her notoriety, it was probably something dirty. As far as assets went, dirt was great when he knew what it was and could use it to leverage things his way. It was more of a liability in this case, as the lack of information meant things could spiral out of hand very quickly.

Theron glanced at the chrono, seeing that it had started to edge into evening. His long ignored fatigue dragged at him, and his bed called to him. Even if he still didn’t have his recommendation, he’d at least finished his review of the files. If he slept now, at least he could feel justified in the fact that Marcus couldn’t be right. And Jace did say that Theron could sleep on the decision, so he did just that.

And if his sleep was just a little haunted by a dark spectre attempting to devour the galaxy, he wasn’t going to mention it to anyone.

Next Chapter

#swtor fanfiction #theron shan x jedi knight #Theron Shan #Female Jedi Knight/Hero of Tython #oc: greyias highwind #otp: adorkable #smoke and mirrors #SoR Fic O Doom #fanfic #greyfic

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yfere · 5 years

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I Can’t Believe Matt Made the Raven Queen Liam’s Adversary Again: A Lot of Screaming By Me (spoilers for c1 and c2 like, everywhere)

I’ve been sitting on this post for a while, and only now do I have the energy to write it!

So you guys know me, hurr durr, haven’t watched campaign 1, even if I know on some level some major plot points. Hurr durr, still trying to get through the first 20 episodes, definitely haven’t ever made it to the sunken tomb or anything. So I know the following would be wayyy more obvious to people who have, but still!! Threw me for a loop!!!

You see, I like writing fic, don’t you know, and it occurred to me one day after reading on the Raven Queen’s wiki that she used to be a mortal woman who straight-up replaced the previous death god, that wouldn’t it be funny if Caleb tried pulling the same shit with the power of dunamis and the dodecahedron threads of Fate/Possibility/Whatever? And without properly knowing what I was doing I started drafting the Raven Queen’s realm as the nexus of all these threads from the dodecahedron, described her power stemming from her ability to control them. Then I hit a snag, because I wanted to describe the actual physical realm the Raven Queen occupied but be Canon Compliant about it, and that shit was not on the wiki! Time to search for the Raven Queen in C1 transcripts then, and hopefully get good fic fodder.

......................................that was something.

Because I found this this from Vax’ildan’s vision in C1E47:

“...falling towards what seems to be a tangled net of glowing threads. You’re afraid you might impact at such a speed, but before you do, you slow and come to a stop before this extremely prominent glowing weave,this infinite tapestry in all directions. You are uncertain of the meaning of this moment when a large cold hand reaches past your shoulder and grasps a thread right before your face, this singular glowing thread, pulsing with light like a heartbeat. You follow the arm over your shoulder,and glance up directly into the massive form of the Raven Queen: porcelain face like a mask, long jet-black hair, her body encasing you like a physical cage. Your eyes follow the arm back to the thread that she carries between her massive fingers. She tugs it, ever so gently, and it causes waves to ripple through the tapestry into infinity. Her voice fills your mind, both calm but cold. “This is you, my champion. You are fate-touched. The choice is yours. Rebirth or ruin. Maker or martyr. Conqueror, tyrant, or nothing.” She plucks the thread from the weave, snapping it. You plummet into the hole left behind it, falling faster and faster into the dark. Losing control, you turn around and see the Raven Queen, disappearing into the distance, growing smaller and smaller, until suddenly, nothing.”

THOSE ARE THE DODECAHEDRON THREADS. THAT IS LITERALLY THE DESCRIPTION FOR THE DODECAHEDRON WE GOT FROM CALEB’S FIRST VISION HOLY SHIT. GLOWING THREADS, TAPESTRIES, FATE AND POSSIBILITY. SHIT!! MY FIC WAS MORE RELEVANT THAN I THOUGHT!!!!

And of course, it was only at the moment of reading this that my Very Helpful Memory supplied me with the information that yes, Caleb had in fact read some writing speculating that the Raven Queen “wouldn’t be pleased” with the time-altering magic shit that the Assembly and Soltryce were up to. When I first heard this on the show, I was like, “....okay,” because I thought, she’s a goddess right? I guess that makes sense for her not to like time alteration fuckery too much. But I was confused over why what I understood to be the goddess of death and shit specifically would have a bone to pick with this magic.

Now I know?

Because that’s literally her power. That is what she does. She has jurisdiction over the threads of fate, and these wizards are fucking with the same particular weave of magic she has her fingers all over, pulling it for their own purposes instead of hers.

And this puts a lot of things in context for me. Of course the Xhorhasians are the ones developing magic using dunamis and the dodecahedrons. There are very strong indications that the Betrayer Gods are making a comeback in their old kingdom, and considering the Raven Queen was among the biggest enemies of the Betrayer Gods, why wouldn’t the people that follow them try to figure out a way to take her weapons and use it for themselves?

But this also raises one of my enduring questions, over the nature of the gods, particularly gods like the Raven Queen, who were not always gods. Because the threads of possibility/fate are pretty clearly not something that originate from her. They aren’t divine in nature. They are something older and more fundamental than her, part of the very fabric of the magical Weave. The use of dunamis that is linked to them too is an older magic, something from which the schools proceeded from. But the Raven Queen still has, to my knowledge, the most control over these threads of fate. What does this mean?

I’m reminded of something else Caleb found in the Cobalt Soul, looking for leads on time magic. One of his books “speaks specifically of two different mages who believed that they could possibly alter choices, alter elements of their past to benefit their future, their gaining of power and influence. One was turned to dust, the other was never seen again.” Was that second mage the Raven Queen? Was it gaining mastery over this magic that gained her the power to attain godhood? Can people like Caleb do the same? Is that what makes people like him a threat to her--a goddess who can so easily fall the same as the one who came before her?

I’m excited by this. Fjord is not the only one whose goals seem to lie in a direction that would align himself with the enemies of the gods.

#critical role #cr spoilers #cr speculation #meta #caleb widogast #the raven queen #as always concerned I'm being way too obvious #but shit!#long post

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scarlettlawyer · 5 years

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Part five of my Phantoms & Mirages commentary, @renegadewangs‘ fic series.

Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4

Haunted Specters, Chapter 7

Despite the earlier warning not to touch anything, his attention was drawn to a nearby little statue built out of gears and bolts. It was shaped like a man with a top hat. He prodded it and its arm fell off. That effectively got him to stop touching things.

LOOOL

A few of the guards by the exit had smiled at her- one of them had winked at her.

I WAS LOWKEY DISAPPOINTED WHEN THE INITIAL BREAKOUT SCENE ENDED and there was nothing like this. At the time I was honestly like “Stuff it! I’m just gonna pretend people noticed how cute that nurse was!” But THEN, you actually went back to it (when I assumed the scene wouldn’t be returned to) and made it so that I didn’t even have to headcanon anything. Past me needed just a little patience ;D What else is new?

After all that time she- he- they had spent lying in bed, the exercise was unwanted.

Ohooh! I’d forgotten all about the uses of “they” here. I’m pretty sure I felt kind of annoyed on the first readthrough, like “WAIT SO YOU’RE DEMONSTRATING AWARENESS AND USE OF SINGULAR THEY, AND YET…”

But nah, nah, it’s actually pretty cool what’s going on with the pronouns in this segment and the switching going on. “He” is applied to statements that only apply to the phantom and not the makeshift nurse persona. “She” is employed for the makeshift nurse persona because the phantom is leaning on, relying on that persona, as they reject their sense of self and always feel the need to be someone else. As the nurse, the phantom thinks about “the phantom” in the third person, to help further keep that comfortable distance, I suppose. And “they” is used for statements that are true of both the nurse persona AND the phantom. Therefore, interestingly enough, the “they” is technically being applied in both a singular and plural manner - simultaneously.

And also, this pronoun-switching fun and the distinctions that are subsequently made would simply not exist if a consistent singular they was used instead. The he/she/they all serve an important and relevant purpose. On the first readthrough, at least during the first phantom POV breakout scene, I was irritated by the switch to she/her and the references between he & she. I found it unnecessary and tedious when “they” would make everything go so much more smoothly. But I fully realise now that it would have been a lost opportunity of sorts for the reasons mentioned above (and willingly embrace it for other reasons too). I had also very much underestimated the level of the phantom’s investment in roles and how much he was “getting into” the role too, I suppose.

After all, at the end of this chapter, the phantom has absolutely no one to perform for or put on an act for, and yet it specifically says they will very much remain as the nurse until a different disguise/persona can be donned (although I guess it’s also a case of “remain in character so you’re already in character when you encounter anyone”). But it’s also the case of, just like when they were disguised as Bobby, they were compelled to act as Bobby. They’re remaining in-character as the nurse so that they don’t have to be themself. And so that extends to pronouns too, to fully complete it.

Haunted Specters, Chapter 8

The situation felt surreal. As if Simon were caught in some sort of lucid dream. To be sitting around a table with Fulbright and the Phantom, plotting out what could technically be considered a crime…

I keep trying to put into words just how WILD the situation our three main characters are in is, but Simon keeps beating me to it.

If someone had told him of this situation earlier on in the year, he would’ve laughed and called them stark raving mad.

ME BUT IF SOMEONE TOLD ME THIS IS WHAT FIC 2 WAS GONNA BE LIKE

Bobby Fulbright, Simon Blackquill and the phantom sharing an apartment together? Having a meal together?

What do you mean this isn’t a Roommates Domestic AU? What do you MEAN this is “canon compliant”?! You try explaining this to someone who’s played Dual Destinies and Bobby Fulbright’s presence – his being alive – would be confusing enough and require so much explaining. Let alone EVERYTHING ELSE. And yet.

It wasn’t like Dissociative Identity Disorder, because no matter how invested he became in his role, he still retained a sense of self that could be brought back at will. He adopted roles willingly and studied his subject beforehand- perhaps neurotically so.

Yeah, I was glad for this being brought up but I was focused mainly on the level of control that was had – of course, one of the major defining differences is that the phantom can actively choose to adopt and shed a persona, as opposed to having less control over it or slipping more inadvertently into a different identity like someone with DID. But I was still wondering about the level of self-deception that it involved on the phantom’s part at the time (post-fall), as discussed in my previous post. So I knew it was not DID and it was very, very different from DID, but I was still inclined towards treating Sam like another personality at the time sort of in the same sense you might treat different identities that can front in someone with DID… The key difference being that the phantom has full control over when Sam is present and still knows everything that’s going on even when Sam is in place. It gets kinda confusing to think about XD. You and your ridiculously good acting skills, phantom!! I also knew of course that Sam was more “fake” than the different identities of someone with DID. But it seems that I really didn’t treat him as fake enough. But just like it is for Bobby and Simon, treating Sam as distinct in that manner just made things easier to understand, easier to process.

The characters have been thrust into an odd sort of temporary mundanity in a domestic sense. It is that very mundanity which makes the situation so fascinating. The three characters are sectioned off from direct contact with the rest of the Ace Attorney universe, from other Ace Attorney characters, in their own special kind of liminal space. “Sam” is the only buffer in place separating Bobby and Simon from the phantom. It’s in their best interest to make Sam seem more real… I think… To an extent they have their own limited amounts of self-deception going on there in that regard. Without Sam, things would all fall apart way too easily, it would be all too easy for all hell to break loose, when it’s a struggle to keep the peace as it is. A kind of welcome reprieve. So all THREE characters, the phantom included, hold up and treat Sam as a separate individual. It’s beneficial to all of them, really. But, it kinda also helps the reader out too as they’re sitting there struggling to process this amazing turn of events. Helps the reader make some sense of Bobby’s, and then Simon’s cooperation.

Also sometimes it just felt “too good to be true” for me as well so it was like… ah, Sam. The author must want us to be focusing on him, and not our darling phantom, right? :P

The Phantom was truly devoted to being anyone who wasn’t his ‘true self’, which he claimed he didn’t have. However, Simon had learned that such claims were unsubstantial.

And this is just the beginning… I didn’t know it was coming, I didn’t expect it was coming. But it’s coming. I failed to notice just what this tiny thread was – things were going to get unravelled all the way, following this thread from beginning to end, fully revealing the phantom. Hm! This undercurrent was already firing up but I’d failed to take notice.

The scene with phantom tossing the gun over to Bobby is just, whoa. The whole dynamic of “character A tosses character B a gun and begs character B to shoot them” is really something in and of itself. But “character B is committed to justice and couldn’t do that” meanwhile character A is the phantom, a supposed enemy who is super hard to capture + kill…! Damn. It’s a gripping dynamic. It’s powerful. So many different forces at play, going up against each other.

Haunted Specters, Chapter 9

“Sam Specter does not need to prepare for burglary. The Phantom does.”

“And here I’d assumed you loathed being the person known as the Phantom.”

YEAH this kinda made me a lil “?” on a first readthrough. Simon’s reply most likely means “I’d assumed you loathed [not being in character as someone else and being forced to be “yourself”]” as opposed to “I’d assumed you loathed [being referred to as “the phantom”]”. (Or maybe it’s both?). It surprised me that the phantom would openly refer to “himself” as the phantom when not in-character…! This moniker, after all, was not chosen by him. It was a label slapped on him by other people, and he had absolutely no say in the matter. Well, I was so entrenched in a common characterisation of the phantom basically rejecting this label, or at the very least not being a fan, as it puts a label on him. The he that he claims does not exist. He’s most likely just humouring Simon here using the label that Simon uses and is familiar with, however, as opposed to having internalised it. But I was still surprised because the characterisations of the phantom that I’m accustomed to usually have them explicitly rejecting this label, to the extent that they would not even use it in this sort of context. But then I came to realise – that characterisation is not necessarily the “canon” one. The phantom is lacking emotions, so they would not necessarily have strong feelings like this, about something as simple as a moniker. Just as they do here, they can easily dodge the label and pretend it in fact applies to no one. A non-person. A non-person that they don’t care about. I realise that this interpretation is also valid.

He remembered Fulbright saying that the man had been in pain for eight months already and wondered just how fierce it was. Wondered whether this was karma’s way of repaying the Phantom for all his crimes. He could run from his past life, his emotions and the consequences of his actions, but not physical pain.

This is kind of, well, delicious, really. Karma actually managing to find a way, for a man so indifferent to everything… :P In the only real way the message can be communicated across. I approve.

Simon punched him again. And again. Desperate for something more than blank stares- anything that was genuine sorrow. Genuine regret for all the Phantom’s wrongdoings. Even genuine anger would do. Anything real and substantial.

Well damn. Doesn’t this just have another layer to it on a second readthrough?!

He initiates violence out of anger. But then. But then, the key motivator is prompting a reaction. The… The same base motivation of the other instance once you strip everything else away, yet under such VASTLY different circumstances. I’d also misremembered this as Simon only punching him once. But no. No. The text initiates the parallel ever more closely with multiple blows. GOSH.

Haunted Specters, Chapter 10

“What did he say?” Simon tried again, more forceful this time. “… He said the walls in this apartment aren’t as well insulated as we’d like.”

AMAZING.

Oh goodness…

THEY’RE IN. THE PHANTOM’S APARTMENT I am yelling. THE PHANTOM feels the need to intervene.

AND HE DOES SO AS SAM.

PERHAPS because he does not wish to do so as himself.

I DON’T THINK HE WAS ALREADY SAM PRIOR TO THIS POINT??? It’s implied that when locked in the room = the phantom, ventures outside of the room = oftentimes Sam. SO LIKE??? HE CHOSE TO BE SAM TO- that is the story I’m sticking with rn because that is so funny to me. And he does come out and be Sam after that cause I guess it’s “well I already switched to Sam so I Might As Well come out and be Sam for a while.”

It was the Phantom hidden behind that harmless façade- he knew it was the Phantom- but even so, he felt as if he were looking at a completely different person. Perhaps, in a way, it was a completely different person.

THIS IS WHAT I MEAN… The narrative putting forth the proposition that perhaps “Sam Specter” does have some sort of claim to personhood.

And then Simon apologises to Sam. And it just, feels like such an important turning point. Sam is a slippery slope. FOR ALL OF US.

It’s also kinda like, Simon knowingly playing along. For the sake of keeping up appearances. Keeping the peace. For the greater good. But does it run any deeper than that? Even the thought of apologising to a mere façade that the phantom is clearly behind is… hmm! It’s a very elaborate act for everyone, kind of.

Either way, Sam seemed content with whatever words Bobby had uttered. He smiled and hung his head for a moment, then nodded at Simon. Apology accepted.

IT’S FAKE REACTION BUT LIKE… THE NARRATIVE POSITIONING… hm!

Sam would join them for dinner and clean up after them, only to disappear into the bedroom once more.

EVEN THOUGH SIMON HAD KINDA SETTLED DOWN AT THIS POINT I WAS STILL BUSY REELING AT THIS ENTIRE SITUATION/DYNAMIC CHANGE THOUGH.

The. The PHANTOM (in a persona) would join them for dinner and clean up after them. (THIS SENTENCE IS JUST SO CASUAL!!! AND I’M LIKE! NO HOLD UP I’M STILL REELING LOL).

“Right!” There was a moment of silence, then the Phantom turned his head to face Bobby, shooting him a blank stare. A few seconds passed before the man seemed to be hit by a sudden realization. “O-oh! Right! The security systems! I’m on it!”

LOL this is just… so great. Well-timed comedic moments. GOD. When these three characters get together you expect someone to die. And yet we get to reap some comedy from this. I LOVE it.

Haunted Specters, Chapter 11

Every so often, Bobby would start tinkering with the watch again, his eyebrows contracting and the corners of his mouth twitching as information flashed along the display of the sunglasses.

CAN I JUST SAY, that it’s kind of amazing how you like… take imagery explicitly associated with the phantom and ONLY the phantom, and casually apply it to Bobby, cheerfully mixing up the symbolism? Obviously, to those who have played Dual Destinies, the image of “Bobby” having data rapidly scroll past glasses that he is wearing is an association ONLY attached to the phantom. If included in fanart, people will immediately know that this is supposed to depict the phantom in disguise, and not the real Bobby Fulbright. And YET, in your fic, here is the real Bobby Fulbright doing that EXACT same thing! Likewise, thanks to Simon splitting the phantom’s glasses apart during the Turnabout for Tomorrow trial when causing the gash in the phantom’s mask, “Bobby” without glasses is also very phantom-symbolism. Of course, not AS associated with the phantom as the gash in the mask, but the gash+lack of glasses is often used to tip people off. However! Right at the very start of this series it’s implied that the glasses are the phantom’s and the phantom’s alone, and that Bobby was not actually in the habit of wearing sunglasses at all! You go “wait a minute. It’s the other way around. If he’s got glasses, it’s the phantom! The real Bobby Fulbright didn’t even wear those!” That’s pretty damn cool! You also have the amusing reversal during Chasing Phantoms when Bobby impersonates the phantom. Even if it wasn’t the phantom he was specifically impersonating, it goes without saying that impersonation is something attached to the phantom’s character, not Bobby’s, yet it is something Bobby does at that point in the fic. And then, you know, there’s that scene much later on in the next fic where Bobby uses the Jolt of Justice on the phantom. I think I’m comfortable in saying that most of the fandom agrees that the real Bobby Fulbright would not have electrocuted Simon in court like the phantom did and that this was a specifically phantom act. But your fic has the REAL Bobby Fulbright use it, and the narrative even comments on the shocking (pun not intended) nature of it, where Simon muses that he “never thought he’d see the day” when the real Bobby used it. It’s just, so cool, and it’s also a really interesting and meta way of “striking back”, so to speak. After all, we NEVER met the real Bobby in canon. Since we ONLY ever get to meet the phantom, on a meta level, the phantom has truly stolen so much from him. His appearance, for most fanart. I’ve seen many people incorrectly use the name “Bobby Fulbright” as shorthand for “phantom”. The two characters get ridiculously blurred together since the phantom does not have enough to distinguish themself and was Bobby for the entire game. The phantom does not have their own tumblr tag, because “the phantom” is way too vague and applies to too many fandoms, so people throw it into “#Bobby Fulbright” and usually call it a day. What else can they do, really? I’ve been guilty of that myself I’m sure. Some fanart is quite ambiguous whether it depicts Bobby or the phantom. In much of fandom and in the eyes of players, the phantom has stolen much of explicitly Bobby symbolism for themself. But in your series, Bobby Fulbright gets to strike back! He gets to steal the phantom’s symbolism! He takes phantom imagery and claims it as his own, at least temporarily! It’s one of those things that gives him “agency” at least on a meta level that I’m impressed with. It’s also a great way of striking back at people like me, specifically, who tended to ignore Bobby in favour of the phantom. But I am not “forced” to acknowledge Bobby, because in this series it is not a zero-sum game. Rather, I am more than happy to do so. He’s a great character!

The conversation turned more heated. The Phantom- or was it the guard after all?- was shouting. The other voice seemed more calm. Collected. It held a forceful tone. There was a loud slamming sound, followed by more yelling.

Oh my god.. This is. So much on second readthrough. This is the child losing their temper and arguing back against their father. And Lex Sr knows. He knows that is his son. “more calm. Collected. It held a forceful tone.” Oh my GOOOSH this description… Like a SCOLDING. “I am the parent. YOU are the child! Do NOT argue back against me!” THAT’S WHAT THIS BRINGS TO MIND… AND THAT’S??? Probably how Lex Sr may treat it in his mind to an extent

AND I ALSO LOVE THE AMBIGUITY WHERE SIMON CAN’T EVEN KNOW IF THAT’S THE PHANTOM OR NOT, gosh.

“You had no right to take it! You had no right!”

I could not… BELIEVE this. At this point it’s implied, and later on we do know that this statement is absolutely right. And I think my main disbelief over this line stemmed from later if the scene is revisited(?), but I’m just gonna comment on it here.

Even if the phantom is right to say this, is right to be angry (!!!), the fact that it’s the phantom saying it absolutely floors me. It’s shocking and SURPRISING that the phantom could even UNDERSTAND, internally, a concept such as “rights”. And the thing is, he probably DIDN’T prior to this. It’s only when something happens to him, personally, when he is wronged, personally, that he understands.

It is the absolute HEIGHT of hypocrisy, to an incredible extent. The phantom had no right to kill all the people he has killed. He had no right to steal their identities. But he DID. And now, now, he claims “you had no right”?! I have no words. The phantom gets to just go around and wrong as many people as he wants, but the moment someone wrongs him he’s suddenly all, “wait, you can’t do that! That’s wrong!”

LOVE how rich that is coming from him.

“Shut up! Just shut up!”

A N G E R

Honestly luv seeing him just lose it.

“No! I… I’m not upset! I…”

You know what’s even better than seeing the phantom get legit angry for a moment? Seeing the phantom immediately denying it/in denial & confusion over that very anger and falling over himself internally all like “wait was I just angry??? CAN’T be. I am the Logic Man”. This absolute MESS of a man, I tell you, defying his own logic and being DEEPLY confused about himself whenever that happens.

“You’re going back to your cell until your memories return.” “No, I won’t! I won’t go back there!”

“Go to your room until you calm down and learn to treat your own father with some RESPECT.”

Teenage rebel son: “NO, I WON’T! SCREW YOU, DAD!”

The relationship between Luster and the Phantom was much more convoluted than Simon had anticipated. Far more intricate.

Yeah Simon, could you hold onto that thought? It’s uh. It’s just a little bit more convoluted than you think, even. :D

Man, things sure do… progress, huh, as all this is going on. You have Simon going in to search for the phantom, then Bobby… and when Bobby goes, Simon ultimately doesn’t stop him. It’s, aaaah.

Okay, what’s ALSO really great is that, with the Sequel Hook that Chasing Phantoms throws us, and then the timeskip that Haunted Specters begins with, one of the pressing questions on my mind is like “whoaaaa! Wonder what the phantom’s been up to all this time! The possibilities are practically endless! He must have been up to so much behind the scenes!” and then we get the answer to that question and it’s basically like… Nothing. He did basically nothing in all that time. Dumb loser got himself caught in a cell for several months. And that’s basically it. GOOD WORK PHANTOM, A+ ELITE SPY RIGHT THERE.

So, towards the end of the chapter when the phantom rushes back inside and there’s blood, that it was the phantom’s blood was my first assumption. But, of course, it’s the last thing on Simon’s mind. Because Simon still has him so pinned as a treacherous murderer. Having him be confronted with the fact that it’s actually the phantom who is injured, when he was so forceful and convinced otherwise (and the fact of it being the phantom’s blood didn’t even cross his mind!) is a nice touch. It’s a moment that sort of… further renders the perception of the phantom as vulnerable as opposed to emotionless killer. This vulnerability is something that Simon is forced to see and accept, even when he wants to believe and continue to think otherwise.

Haunted Specters, Chapter 12

What was worse- so much worse than the fact that the Phantom had gotten himself injured- was that Simon caught himself worrying. Only for a few split seconds, only in the spur of the moment. He was actually worried about that crazy bastard and the realization was enough to force him right back into a state of anger.

Oh heckin’ YES. The seed’s planted. There’s no going back now, Simon. Muahahaha!

The Phantom, who seemed to be growing tired of the one-handed fiddling, ripped all the buttons clean off his shirt with one quick vertical swiping motion. They scattered along the tiled floor and disappeared into various nooks and crannies. Simon could do nothing but watch with raised eyebrows.

TH SDKJNSDKLNSD VISUALISING THIS IS SO FUNNY

“… Should you not save that for a more practical use?” Simon questioned. “I assure you, this is quite practical.”

I AM DYING WHAT. SO IS HE LIKE… TRYING TO BLUNT PAIN/”RELAX” HIMSELF TO REMOVE A GODDAMN BULLET??? BUT UHHH. WHAt

Well, all those scars are a great reminder that the phantom has led one hell of a crazy life!

Oh. Oh my goodness. And now… Now we have the flashback. To the phantom’s earliest memory.

^Me right after the earliest-memory flashback, with really no idea just what was in store.

Okay. This flashback.

It’s raw. It’s brutal. It’s child abuse, right there on the screen. You really don’t hold back.

And what struck me was… If the phantom was born with their little-to-no-emotions psychological makeup, this really is pretty much how I’d imagine things to have been when they were small. …Ableist parents. If they’d had a “normal” home life and/or supportive parents/family, it’s highly unlikely they would have grown up to become the phantom in the first place, after all.

“It’s okay to cry in front of mommy. Go on, just… Just cry. Just once. Please. For mommy.”

This line is very interesting, and adds further nuance. It shows things aren’t clear cut, that in spite of how much the mother clearly cares, how much she wants to protect her son, and how much she cannot abide by the abuse, as understanding as she tries to be… And as opposite her treatment of her son is compared to the father’s treatment of his son… It is a clear hint that she still sees her son as abnormal, that there’s something fundamentally wrong with him that she wants to stop. She desperately wants her son to be healthy and “normal”. This attitude is clearly motivated by concern… She wants her son to be okay. She still loves her son very much. But her attitude belies a possible fear that maybe there is a little bit more truth in her partner’s words than she wants to acknowledge. It’s why she’s desperate to get him to cry. She wants him to change. She wants him to be different than he is. She’s worried. She’s clearly not happy with the way her son is. She wants her son to show distress. She wants her son to be distressed. For HER sake. Her prompts here… are still somewhat selfishly motivated, however driven by concern that they MIGHT be. That is what this particular phrasing very much implies.

Fundamentally, she does not wholly accept her son for who he is.

Throughout the whole flashback she is defending him, she is trying to protect him, only for us to see, at the very end of the flashback, that even she, deep down, is not fully accepting. I love the nuance.

Obviously, the flashback is only a tiny window, and there’s only so much it can tell us. And it presents the reader only with an extreme, specific circumstance to extrapolate from, but if we are going off of this and this alone to base things on… That was my extrapolation. Based on the limited information we are provided with here.

Because of course… There are many different conditions that children are born with in real life. Some of them are blessed with loving, understanding parents. Others aren’t. There are plenty of conditions that make children appear to be “abnormal” INCLUDING conditions which may not make them seem very expressive or expressive in different ways that are not considered normal. And this situation… is like that, really.

The phantom has suffered plenty in this series prior to this point. You might feel kinda bad for him at times, maybe! But it’s always been with a grain of salt, hasn’t it? “HE is the villain, HE is awful, HE brought this on himself, HE has ruined lives and therefore I don’t have to feel TOO bad!”

For the first time in the entire series, we are presented with a version of the phantom that has genuinely done nothing wrong. The narrative DEMANDS us to feel bad for him in this instance. We, at the very least, feel unambiguously bad for this child getting abused. The extent to which we choose to extend this “feeling bad” to the current version of the phantom is up for some debate.

It’s kinda like. You do feel bad for the current version of the phantom – it really sucks that this happened to him. It’s also something that happened prior to everything the phantom has done - the lives he has taken and ruined. So there’s obviously still that sense of “that really sucks, but you still suck, too.” And of course, it’s abundantly clear that this instance of childhood abuse in no way lessens the phantom’s crimes or how much he happens to suck right now. That doesn’t mean we can’t feel bad for him that this happened to him in his youth. And we absolutely feel bad for that child, who did nothing wrong, yet suffered a beating.

In this fic, prior to this point… From the start we are consistently shown imagery that largely contradicts our conception of the phantom’s character and place in the narrative. The phantom gets shown working together with Bobby for the two to escape. Suddenly, he is living with and working together with both Bobby AND Simon. The narrative invites him to come in and join them to become part of the central “trio”. The phantom is shown to be suffering, in pain, weak. It is such a far cry from the phantom from before, who was positioned as a powerful terrifying figure, the inflicter of suffering. The phantom did not get any POV segments until the very, very end of Chasing Phantoms. Here, in this fic, those POV segments are abundant. He has well and truly changed over from being an antagonist to protagonist.

And now, after all of these steps taken towards this point, the narrative takes it even further. Now the text is repositioning the phantom as – implanting that image in our minds – of the small, innocent child with a mental condition. The image of the phantom from the prior fic has already been largely torn down, but now it gets overturned even more as we are confronted with such opposing imagery.

But wait, there’s MORE. The narrative isn’t even done yet. It’s not even finished. Not quite yet.

Haunted Specters, Chapter 13.

“Fulbright. It may be that my ears are playing tricks on me, yet for a moment there, it sounded as if you hold genuine worry for that man.” Bobby didn’t deny the accusation. He didn’t even attempt to deny it. He only lowered his forehead to rest it against his knees, the corners of his lips twitching into some sort of wry grin. “… Don’t you?”

HE’S OWNING IT. And additionally he’s just like. Come on Simon. Don’t you? And this feels earned, given everything that’s happened. GOSH, IT FEELS SO EARNED. Because the readers aren’t the only ones who have been constantly confronted with a very different perspective/imagery of the phantom. These two protagonists have too!!! They are succumbing to the same fate as the reader – a turnabout of perspectives!

AND THEN. AND THEN. HERE IT IS EVERYONE.

One person supporting him. One person doubting him. It was familiar.

When I read this, I just… It was like my jaw just dropped. As it all… fell into place. As the realisation just HIT me. As I read on, and the narrative, in a rather justified self-satisfied manner, casually pointed out the parallels, built up over so many chapters… All of the little things. There were so many tiny things, choices that just didn’t seem to make sense at the time, didn’t seem to add up, and now… All I could do was sit there, stunned, as direct attention was drawn to this. The long-term game that the narrative had been playing.

In awe, I scrambled back to re-read over bits of past chapters at the time only to find that YES, the narrative, from Simon’s POV, had even actually referred to Bobby’s behaviour towards the phantom as “mothering over him”…

All I could do was shake my head ruefully and go “…okay, you win.”

As I’ve implied/stated throughout these commentaries, I went into this series weirdly harsh and reserved towards it for various reasons. And continued to be for the most part even WITHOUT any real justifiable reason for it. Even when my scepticism was being constantly broken down and shown to be misplaced. But the thing is, I’m never usually so harsh on other fics?

If you imagine it as a play showing in a theatre, I usually just go in and sit down and watch it like a normal damn person. Why on earth was I so… sceptical of this series??? It’s like the equivalent of me strolling in, standing at the back of the theatre with my arms crossed and internally going, “Well, I’ll give this a chance, I GUESS. Show me what you’ve got. But be mindful that I’ve seen VERY good performances in my time, however.” (And then, you know, you confidently went right on ahead and practically put on what is among the very best performances I’ve ever seen.)

But the simple fact of the matter was… Like, I’ve already gone over my reasons for feeling a phantom “disconnect” during the first fic. Reasons that all turned out in retrospect to be entirely unfounded. With this in mind, there’s nothing whatsoever wrong with Chasing Phantoms. The phantom it gives us, the phantom content it gives us, is all superb and on-par with the consistently good characterisation provided by the rest of the series. I just had the misfortune of letting my own misconceptions get the better of me at the time. Were it not for that, I would have been able to enjoy the phantom aspects of the 1st fic thoroughly on the first readthrough. Only got myself to blame!

But this fic? As you know, going into it I was already invested – it already held my full attention. And yet I’d still held on to some amount of completely unfair reservation that I do not, and have not subjected other fics to. It was wild, as if I was setting this absurdly high bar when it came to expectations that no other fic had been subjected to by me. But you were still more than ready to rise to that challenge. You took my already high expectations and rose above them, constantly outdoing yourself as the series continued to progress after this point.

Perhaps because I was already standing at the back of the theatre, I had remained there out of habit even as all my doubts were waved off. This meant that even when the fic clearly established it was very much on-par with others I had thoroughly enjoyed with no issues, WAY prior to this chapter, to this point of the story, I was still acting more reserved towards your fic (like a total SNOB) compared to others even when the quality/enjoyment was equal! I was blinded at the time from recognising just how on-par it was. I really don’t think I’m usually like that. It’s like I just happened to pick your series to “discriminate” against, one that could thoroughly show me just how wrong I was. It’s an important lesson I need to keep in mind, because taking this approach to things runs the risk of being unable to actually enjoy them, when if I’d just relaxed, I would have enjoyed it just fine. This risk did not come to fruition, because it got shut down.

All I could do was marvel at the brilliance of the writing, the set-up leading to this… It was the kick I needed to fully relax & sit the hell down to enjoy the show to its fullest potential. That I’d done nothing but stand around like a fool and underestimate, so it was time for me to see just what this series was gonna do. It had my full support. It was the point I truly realised, whoa, this is superb, and all other pretences fell away.

And that’s why all I could do was say to myself, you win, Author. You win. Well-played. I will do my best not to ever doubt you again. I’m sorry I ever doubted you.

All I can say is, the fact that I DID have so much reservation and doubt is what made the reading journey all the more wild and fun for me. I expected so little, and received so much… And that’s why I’ve been so open & honest about how unfairly I treated this series going into it. So that I can show just how much it contrasted with the reality of how great it actually is, how much it contrasted with my feelings later on.

...Aaand I’m cutting this post off here ‘cause of how long it is. Anything else I’ve to say connected to this chapter and beyond will be for the next post!

#long post #posts n RUNS #so much..

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i-want-my-iwtv · 7 years

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I'm going to be roleplaying with someone and they want to do a mother/son relationship, like not in the usual way. Like, what is the ACTUAL relationship between Gabrielle and Lestat? What is it really? I want to do a thread, but I don't want to trigger anyone or make it look all grim and incestuous. And I sincerely apologize if I've offended you by asking the question. I just dunno.

[By the way, I usually answer things with a relevant fanart/image/gif, but in this case, I think it’s too serious a topic for that.]

“And I sincerely apologize if I’ve offended you by asking the question.”

No offense taken, it’s a fair question!

I am a little wary that this is a bait set out by those who see things in RP/fiction as “promoting” something in real life. A bait set to invite the kind of anti-shippers who are looking for a way to tear me down regardless of how I respond, when all I ever want to promote is:

The 3 Laws of Fandom.

(And I’ll quote a relevant piece of it from @ozhawkauthor, but please read the whole post):

“Much (though not all) fandom is about shipping. There are as many possible ships as there are fans, maybe more. You may have an OTP (One True Pairing), you may have a NOTP, that pairing that makes you want to barf at the very thought of its existence.

It’s not up to you to police ships or to determine what other people are allowed to ship. Just because you find that one particular ship problematic or disgusting, does not mean that other people are not allowed to explore its possibilities in their fanworks.

You are free to create contrarian content, to write meta about why a particular ship is repulsive, to discuss it endlessly on your private blog with like-minded persons.

It is not appropriate to harass creators about their ships, it is not appropriate to demand they do not create any more fanworks about those ships, or that they create fanwork only in a manner that you deem appropriate.

These three laws add up to the following:

You are not paying for fanworks content, and you have no rights to it other than to choose to consume it, or not consume it. If you do choose to consume it, do not then attack the creator if it wasn’t to your taste. That’s the height of bad manners.

Be courteous in fandom. It makes the whole experience better for all of us.”

I want to make it very clear that I’m answering this as someone who supports exploring dark themes and taboo topics in fiction/RP. As long as you are not violating real living person’s rights, or invading any real living person’s space*, then you are doing nothing wrong. I’ve been blocked. I try to tag for things that can be triggering/upsetting to others, but I will not self-censor to appease everyone, so I absolutely support ppl unfollowing/blocking me if what I post makes them uncomfortable.

*Posting your fic/RP with the appropriate warning tags is a form of respecting others’ space and rights. If they don’t like your writing, they can block you, too. Their dashboard is their responsibility.

“I want to do a thread, but I don’t want to trigger anyone or make it look all grim and incestuous.”

I think grim and incestuous could be very interesting to explore; not every fic/RP can be a fluffy Coffee Shop AU!

Re: Concern about triggering anyone, I’ll repeat myself, it is everyone’s responsibility to curate their own fandom experience and as long as you are tagging and putting content under cuts, it is their responsibility to protect themselves. If they are incapable of that, then they should ask a trusted person to monitor their internet use.

People are triggered by many things, not just taboo and darker themed writing. This person’s triggers are Jello, Popsicles, Soup Broth, please read it! And to quote from that post, “a lot of ‘activists’ on tumblr aren’t looking to actually help anyone or make anything better: they’re sadists cruising for new victims.”

TL; DR: Anon, do what you and your partner are comfortable doing.** If RPing it as a ship squicks you both out, don’t do it. If Rping it as a ship is exciting to you both and you want to explore that taboo, go for it! Just be sure to tag it with the right warnings, and add cuts so that ppl will be protected from content they may not want to see. You can also RP privately however you like, there is no rule that says RP must be done publicly.

**If your RP partner is pressuring you to RP something you are uncomfortable with, then I would suggest not RPing that with them, and similarly, if you are pressuring your RP partner to RP something they are uncomfortable with, I would suggest not pressuring them into it.

Hit the jump for my response, cut for length, and discussion about possible incest between fictional characters.

“I’m going to be roleplaying with someone and they want to do a mother/son relationship, like not in the usual way.”

Is there a “usual way” to RP? If you’re suggesting in the ship way, it is something I’m sure exists.

Ppl RP with canon in mind, or without it.

“Like, what is the ACTUAL relationship between Gabrielle and Lestat? What is it really?”

That is a question with a ton of landmines, so I’m not going to say that they are definitely a ship or definitely not, it’s up to the individual reader/RPer to decide based on their reading of canon, or diverge from canon and write the characters however they see fit. This kind of exploration is one of many ways to engage with the characters and I see nothing wrong with canon-compliant or not canon-compliant writing, either way.

Personally, I can see both sides of the argument.

>>Not as a ship: There are some who see them purely as a mother and a son, and DEFINITELY nothing more. She does come to his rescue at the rock concert (how did she know to go to him? She has telepathy, but being his fledgling, she cannot read Lestat’s mind; she could have picked up the warnings from other vampires, or Louis might have contacted her), there are several times in canon when she asserts herself in an authoritative manner. She’s protective of him when he’s in a coma, and she slaps some sense into him when necessary. All these things can be filed under “motherly.”

It’s easy to not ship them, so I don’t really need to provide further canon evidence, they are, biologically, mother and son! There’s nothing more to add to that.

>>As a ship, Unpopular Opinion: one could argue that they can be shipped, because:

A) He becomes her maker, which changes their relationship to him being more of the “parent.”

- During the initial phase of Lestat turning Gabrielle in TVL, as he’s taking her life, he says she’s no longer his mother (to be fair, this is the kind of intimacy a vampire feels when feeding on anyone, but still, worth mentioning):

Myknowledge dimmed and flickered and there was no mother anymore,no petty need and petty terror; she was simply who she was. She wasGabrielle.

- Then, once she’s turned, she insists on being called by her name instead of “Mother,” so some take that as proof that she doesn’t see herself as being his mother anymore, in the mortal sense of the word.

B) The act of making a vampire is extremely intimate, it has been compared to childbirth. It’s the most intimate act a vampire can share with anyone. I believe in fanon that it creates a physiological bond between maker and fledgling, so one could extrapolate to say that the act itself could create a ship.

Note: In most maker/fledgling relationships, there is some assumption that turning the fledgling is done to bind maker and fledgling as a ship; essentially making the fledgling into a companion for the maker and the maker into a companion for the fledgling. In this case, Lestat turned Gabrielle in order to save her life, not knowing if he would even survive the act, so I don’t think this was a factor here, neither of them necessarily intending to be in a relationship together, but the physiological bond discussed above would still be a possibility.

Also worth mentioning is that he asks for her consent, as he had not been asked for consent himself, and the question is very clear:

No words again, just the silent thrust of it, and the question, more immense than could ever be put into words, Do you want to come with me now? DO YOU WANT TO COME WITH ME INTO THIS NOW? I hide nothing from you, not my ignorance, not my fear, not the simple terror that if I try I might fail. I do not even know if it is mine to give more than once, or what is the price of giving it, but I will risk this for you, and we will discover it together, whatever the mystery and the terror, just as I’ve discovered alone all else. With her wholebeing she said Yes.

^This could be construed as him wanting her for a companion and her agreeing to it.

C) LET’S TALK ABOUT SEX. This is a point of debate for many fans, whether the Ricean vampires can have penetrative sex. In my opinion, in canon they cannot, and while penetrative sex is NOT A REQUIREMENT to a relationship (there are relationships where there is no penetrative sex and they are no less valid than those which do have it, in my opinion), the incestuous aspect of a Lestat/Gabrielle ship is alot less squicky for me knowing that they aren’t able to literally bone in the mortal way. Some would argue that the bloodsharing is more intimate than penetrative sex, and that’s fine, but still, being unable to literally bone is just so much less squicky, in my opinion. But ppl made fanart of essentially that and it was still very funny, to me!

Call it what you will, but the first bloodkiss shared in canon is between Lestat and Gabrielle on the night she is turned.

^^^ALL THAT SAID, I wouldn’t shoot anyone down who ships it, they are both adult fictional characters. One could argue that there is some canon evidence to support it, but canon evidence is unnecessary.

Again, Anon, do what you and your partner are comfortable doing. If RPing it as a ship squicks you both out, don’t do it. If Rping it as a ship is exciting to you both and you want to explore that taboo, go for it! Just be sure to tag it with the right warnings, and add cuts so that ppl will be protected from content they may not want to see. You can also RP privately however you like, there is no rule that says RP must be done publicly.

If your RP partner is pressuring you to RP something you are uncomfortable with, then I would suggest not RPing with them, and similarly, if you are pressuring your RP partner to RP something they are uncomfortable with, I would suggest not pressuring them into it.

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