#in defense of jon snow

[uchiha-no-hime]

Remember when Jon Snow had his first bi panic over jaime lannister 😭

oh he was so real for this. I can’t blame him

Jaime is beautiful 😌💖

#jon snow #asoiaf #jaime lannister #game of thrones #house stark #when my 2 crushes of got have a crush for each other #in defense of jon snow #jon snow supremacy

[atopvisenyashill]

not to keep harping on but definitely the complaint i see that really sticks in my craw is that the only reason or the main reason robb planned to banish catelyn to seaguard was because of their argument over jon. it’s certainly a factor but they have spent the entire war arguing over every decision robb makes! ned tells robb “keep your mother in your council” but robb really does not! he has her there, yes, he lets her speak, yes, but oftentimes he will disregard her advice without any appeasement, misstep badly, and be worse off politically in the exact way she warned him of. she’s not the only person he blows off - he’s not exactly nice to edmure either, for example - but cat is right when she suspects there’s an element of “kings are not supposed to have mothers” and “wedded to his war" and she clocks this long before the argument over jon! robb tries to get rid of her at the beginning of a clash of kings when all cat has done is urge him to continue peaceful negotiations with the lannisters!

robb is angry because he’s in over his head and he knows it, and it's got very little to do with jon! robb is losing this war and his best friend was the son of a man who crowned himself and lost the war!! robb knows exactly what’s going to happen to the north if he loses and despite everything, he cannot seem to win despite being a near prodigy in battle tactics. and here his mother has been this whole time, fighting him on every front - just like the lords but he cant punish them for disagreeing can he? - and being so frustratingly right about more things than his lords, and now they’re picking at this wound in their family that has never been allowed to heal and a lot of resentment that both robb and catelyn are feeling at their general situation gets focused in on each other. this is such a tully thing too (pls remember these are canonically unpleasant people!) because look at lysa projecting years of resentment onto sansa, look at the entire cat, hoster, edmure situation, or even hoster & blackfish’s relationship. family is so important to them but in times of stress, “doing everything for family” becomes an anchor pulling them down, until the only thing left is to lash out at each other.

most of the lords are happy to let this nonsense play out! catelyn does not even have the privilege maege & dacey mormont do at being head of their own house - she’s just a wife, just a mother, just a first born daughter. when she disagrees, they don’t see an equal arguing with them, they see a woman sticking her nose where it doesn’t belong. they do not give a single solitary shit about like, ~the plight of bastards~ they just believe, like robb, that sansa is currently “tainted” by her marriage to a lannister and can’t be allowed to inherit, that arya is dead, that the boys are dead, that jeyne is not yet pregnant, and a bastard boy castle raised who looks like ned is better than no boy at all (see edric storm, addam of hull, and larence snow). these men have not spent the last fourteen years cooking in their resentment over this situation the way catelyn and robb have!

jon is a reason. but so is rickard karstark, jaime lannister, willem lannister, tion frey, renly baratheon, walder frey, and theon greyjoy. ned is a reason as well, and bran, sansa, rickon, arya, hoster, edmure, perhaps even lysa and sweetrobin. jon is the final straw but robb isn’t (only) sending catelyn away because of some righteous fury on his brother’s behalf! he’s sending her away because she is an easy, socially acceptable target for all his frustrations and failures and fears that he can project on, and punish, in a way he cannot punish his enemies, his lords, or himself.

and catelyn is as always very aware of the deeper motivations in her son’s mind, and resentful that she doesn’t have the power to push back; she’s just a mother, after all.

#getting on my soap box #robb stark #catelyn stark #valyrianscrolls #catelyn stark defense squad #cat/robb and ned/sansa/arya are the most interesting & realistic depictions of mother/son and father/daughter relationships send tweet #like the jon snow of it all is always relevant. but she is also right that she’s being punished for being a woman who won’t shut up. just b #some of her advice (SOME! NOT MOST!) is sketch or not good doesn’t mean they’re not punishing her. it’s not like edmure gives good advice! #but guess which tully is sent away!!!!!! edmure gets to have flaws. he gets to be wrong. catelyn does not. #motherhood #mothers and sons #gender politics in asoiaf

[jmoonjones]

Just a girl and her dragon with a boy and his dire wolf. Wasn't it a shame the TV series just stopped after 4 seasons?

Oh well. At least it didn't continue, deviate from logic, insult the actors who poured their souls into the roles, and end in a way that dissatisfied everyone. That would've been horrific.

#asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #game of thrones #daenerys targaryen #daenerys defense squad #Jon snow #jon x daenerys #game of thrones art #asoiaf art #westeros #dragons #dragons all day every day #dire wolf #jon snow

[house-of-daenerys]

Emilia & Kit ✨

(Yes they are in the same photo, I just cropped the guy in the middle out 😂)

#daenerys defense squad #daenerys appreciation #daenerys deserved better #i stand by daenerys #daenerys stormborn #dragon queen #queen daenerys #emilia clarke #khaleesi #breaker of chains #kit harington #jon snow #jonerys #justice for daenerys #daenerys x jon #daenerys #targaryen #daenerys targaryen #game of thrones daenerys #game of thrones

[ariamariastark1]

The ASOIAF fandom forgets that the idea is to Not perpetuate systematic oppression against bastards, woman and disabled people.

#asoiaf #arya stark #jon snow #bran stark #tyrion lannister #in defense of daenerys targaryen and arya stark #daenerys targaryen

[mutter-of-dragons]

I guess we - as Jon fans and Dany fans - can breathe a sigh of relief. Dragon Demands even mentions that George never addressed the Snow spinoff, unlike the other projects that are actually related to the book canon. I hope that this means that we don't have to worry about the fandom fighting about a completely new content based on the AWFUL series ending. Especially if that would result in even more bashing towards Jon and Dany's characters. I get that Kit Harrington might have thought of a way to "redeem" series!Jon, but there was no room for anything good or remotely positive after season 8 for him. I mean, what is there to work with what Dumb and Dumber did? Because unless one wants to be blissfully unaware and pretend that it was all fine after the end of S8 (hello Sophie Turner and her thoughts about Sansa ruling the North alone happily ever after), there's really nothing left to work with it. At least not something someone would want to watch onscreen. Because would they bring Daenerys back for this? We know that Emilia Clarke said no to returning to the character. She and Kit are friends, but there's a limit on what we can do for a friend - I just know I would certainly not go back to a character that meant a lot to me just to have them possibly destroyed AGAIN, just so my friend could live his vanity project. Let's face it, they would keep hammering home the whole Mad Queen shit while Jon was moping with guilt. Dragon Demands said best around 24:24 min into the video, when he mentions the whole fiasco that would be ressurecting Dany. Because that doesn't undo the fact that Benioff and Weiss DESTROYED her character. That the burning of King's Landing was completely out of character, but that shit will be always there, and it will follow us everywhere until GRRM himself decides to publish the rest of the books and put an end on this discussion. Even then, show onlies will still bring that shit up to justify their dislike of Dany. And yes, he mentions that also Stannis and even Sansa suffered character assassination because how can you justify their actions otherwise? So hell YES I'M GLAD THIS IS NOT GOING TO SEE THE LIGHT OF THE DAY.

#daenerys targaryen #anti d&d #anti got #daenerys defense squad #anti got fandom #jon snow #I know that ressurected!Dany and S8 fics exists but this is another matter #because it would be a lot worse since unlike these fics they wouldn't make the characters to actually try to make amends #but to try to kill each other again #Youtube

[fvckinaphrodite]

I cannot understand the rationale of "Good Stepmother Elia" or "Catelyn loves Jon Snow" fics where, because of the patriarchal and oppressive institutions, Elia and Catelyn are forced to live with their cheating husbands and, are expected to raise their husband's bastard born out of the infidelity that could pose a risk to their children's inheritance. I love Jon, but Catelyn's hesitance regarding him was valid. He wasn't a son, and he was the source of insurmountable shame to her.

I couldn't have put it better myself, honestly. Those fics disgust me. I find them disturbing and repulsive with the way they turn Catelyn and Elia into Jon's cheerleaders LMAO AS IF. I'm sorry but some of these authors just love to turn every female character in ASOIAF into plot devices for Jon's story.

You will not believe how many fics I've read in which Robb always insists to push both Sansa and Arya further down the inheritance line, and the Northern lords and ladies just nod along and agree like a bunch of baboons and how Catelyn just have to suck it all up. Sometimes there is even a fic or two where Sansa insists that Robb points Jon as his heir to mark her so-called "development" when the narrative brings her to the Riverlands after escaping King's Landing, and in the process, ruining a mother-daughter relationship forever. Guess what's gonna happen? Yep. Robb dies and Jon becomes king with Sansa as his ever faithful advisor. Sometimes even Sansa is pushed away from the North and decides to stay in the South because Gods forbid she ever touch the Northern throne again. Lmao.

Or, you know, the favorite of all Rhaegar Wins AU, fics where Jon becomes the next king after Rhaegar because Aegon is gay and conveniently doesn't want the Iron Throne🥺

I'm a Jonsa stan. I love me some fics with angst; Sansa's struggle to overcome the fact that Jon's existence hurts Catelyn, etc. But there's a line for everything. For example, I fucking refuse to read Jonsa fics where Catelyn is so demonized one would think she constantly beat him when he's a child or told him to become a servant or a stable boy or something. And of course, Sansa gonna defend him with her whole chest and worships the ground he walks on. Lmao Unbelievable. What a way to degrade a female character, to turn her into a plot device--a cheerleader for their hero. Well done.

#elia martell #catelyn tully #catelyn stark #pro elia martell #pro catelyn stark #sansa stark #jon snow #aegon vi targaryen #anti asoiaf fandom #asoiaf #got #catelyn stark defence squad #catelyn stark defense squad #elia martell deserved better

[nestvrn]

daenerys is the supreme female character of all the tv shows, films or books and I can’t help falling in love with her every single day

#got #game of thrones #daenerys stormborn #daenerys #dany targaryen #dany #pro daenerys #queen daenerys #daenerys defense squad #daenerys appreciation #jorah x daenerys #daenerys x reader #daenerys x jorah #jon snow #house targaryen #house of the dragon

[the-dragon-dreamer]

as a long time wiki lurker and skimming the books i’m finally getting around to reading the first book in asoiaf and Jon’s inner monologue is so judgemental and I love it.

#asoiaf #jon snow #jon snow is judgy #game of thrones #like seriously you just met these people why are you internally bullying them? #It’s his bastard guilt™ that makes him so defensive

[agentrouka-blog]

The only reason Jon views Catelyn as a mother figure/maternal figure is because Ned neglected him enough that Jon projected that onto his father's wife. Ned neglected him by witholding any information about his actual mother and by not providing an adequate emotional replacement for his "son", be that a maternal caretaker or his own damn self.

Ned gets praised to hell and back for the bare minimum.

But people blame Cat for Jon's issues. The actor blames Cat for Jon's issues.

It simply has to be the woman's fault.

The expectation that Catelyn was supposed to act as an actual mother figure to Jon in any official capacity is a massive misogynistic double standard that entirely hinges on ignoring the context of the setting and Ned's responsibilities and on insisting that women have the obligation to provide for the emotional needs to male characters regardless of their own self-interest.

She never treated him "like crap". Her worst "crime" (apart from an emotional outburst at her absolute breaking point) is not being warm to Jon and regarding him with suspicion in a way he was able to detect. It sucks for Jon that he was a child and an adult in his life communicated her dislike of his presence. BUT SHE WAS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS EMOTIONAL VALIDATION. NED WAS.

I will never forgive the show for the absolute character-derailing travesty of a scene where Catelyn castigates herself because she couldn't "love a motherless child" when that is absolutely brushing aside her actual issues in the book canon. It's one of the worst examples of sacrificing a female character's storyline for a male character's validation in the series, and it's on par with Sansa "thanking" the Hound for his abuse or telling Tyrion he was "the best of them", or utterly ignoring Shae's murder.

It cheapens Sansa's validation of Jon because it casts her actions as "making up" for Catelyn (or her own "awful" past, which, don't even get me started on that nonsense). Like it's something Jon is owed by either of them, instead of something Sansa gives to Jon because she she chooses to, because she sees him as worthy of it on her own accord and because of his own actions.

No, instead she has to apologize for not being his #1 stan from day one, like a "good" female character would have been (like Arya). Liking and loving and validating Jon is framed as a default standard, and deviating from it is immediately a transgression that has to be compensated for.

Male-centric, misogynistic nonsense.

My hats off to Kit for giving this mess some thought, but unless his show actually examines the angle that Cat wasn't the bad guy, that the person who withheld emotional validation and crucial information from him was Saint Ned the Honorable... I can't take it seriously.

#catelyn stark #catelyn stark defense squad #eddard stark critical #anti jon snow #< not really but just in case

[destroyerofnations92]

book!Tyrion and book!Daenerys are my favourite characters. I have been looking forward to them meeting since the first time I picked up A Game of Thrones, so when the promo pictures of them meeting in season five came out I was beyond excited.

For a while that continued, even though for whatever reason they started dumbing down Tyrion. Their chemistry was remarkable and it felt like their story could be the backbone of the remainder of the show.

It sorta was but not in a good way.

Tyrion was pushed to the background in favour of the least interesting Northerner alive, Jon Snow, and eventually Rhaegar's bastard started cannibalizing Daenerys too.

The worst thing is that while I did not love book!Jon, I did quite like him. However, his show!version has made me hope Dany and Jon never meet, or that he stays dead.

I know there is a chance that George never finishes the book series because the man is getting up there in years, but I hope to at least read of Tyrion and Dany meeting.

The show broke me, and it seems like House of the Dragon is on its way to doing the same. Great characters are butchered in favour of villains and book!canon is pushed aside.

It's still in the early stages but anyone interested in a Tyion-centric post-season eight/seven-year time jump story, come have a look at my Patreon: patreon.com/DestroyerofNations. The story is called amidst salt and smoke, and it is Tyrion coming to terms with his faults and his hand in Daenerys' death. There are going to be many twists and turns along the way, and there are some surprising and not-so-surprising villains. I am going to post the first chapter on AO3 next week as well.

#tyrion lannister #tyrion x daenerys #daenerys x tyrion #daenerys defense squad #daenerys deserved better #team daenerys #daenerys stormborn #tyrion deserved better #tyrion defense squad #anti jonerys #anti jon snow #anti starks

[silverflameataraxia]

Friendly reminder that Arya, Jon, Tyrion, Dany, and Bran are central to the plot of ASOIAF.

Sansa is not.

#a song of ice and fire #arya #jon snow #tyrion lannister #daenerys stormborn #king bran #anti sansa stark #asoiaf #arya stark #jonarya #daenerys defense squad #brandon stark #anti sansa stans #george r.r. martin #pro arya stark #jonrya #team daenerys #jon x arya #anti jonsa #daenerys targaryen #canonaryastark #anti jonsa stans #daenerys x jon #canonarya #canonjonsnow #pro dany #dany targaryen

[outoftimewriting]

i open up ao3 and the amount of fanfiction of jon snow somehow getting dragons outta eggs from elsewhere (or even dany's eggs), somehow discovering his heritage earlier, or how "everything would be so much better if he was in essos with dany" just tells me a lot of people in this fandom are chauvinist assholes

dany and jon are of a similar age. dany did more throughout the first book than jon did in the first three

there's nothing, and hear me out, nothing that jon snow could do better than daenerys fucking targaryen. he wouldn't hatch dragon eggs, even if he was a targaryen, simply because it takes more than that, summerhall is proof of it.

he isn't supposed to have a dragon just on the fucking idea that he is rhaegar's son (which I will defend to the end that he continues to be a bastard either way).

viserys, if he lived, wouldn't be entitled to a dragon. neither is jon. the perception that daenerys owns him anything, that she should put her "estranged nephew" on the throne because... well, because male primogeniture. she should pick up all her hardwork, her wins, her dragons, and give it to a boy her age because... he's a man, of course!

oh, get out of here with that misogynistic shit

#daenerys defense squad #daenerys targaryen #queen daenerys #anti jon snow #game of thrones #asoiaf #daenerys deserved better

[rise-my-angel]

Sorry if I'm spouting stuff unwanted in your ask box. But I had a deep brain thinky moment and I thought "at least with reader inserts we admit we're inserting ourselves into the story". A lot of "shippers" seem to ship because they've projected onto a certain character, and they themselves want to be with another character (who often gets watered down to a very attractive slab of meat with little to no will and/or personality of their own). So of course, prime example is Jon with his choose your own poison girlboss, but I've seen it in some other areas. Of course there are some genuine attempts at investigating chemistry between characters out there, but it's often the most viciously toxic ships/shipping communities that I notice this sort of self insertion. Of course I could be assuming things and/or judgemental but it's just a theory I built up after years of observing.

No, you are right on the money. (Rest under a read more because gods be good have my opinions on shipping and shippers in fandom gotten me some anon hate before)

It's why certain shippers tend to be very aggressive in their defences, because they have seen so much of themselves in a character they feel like you are judging them for a real relationship they are in. Refusing to see character flaws as a fundemantal aspect of who that person is, beacuse they don't want to relate to someone like that, so they invent a vision of this person that they have to defend beacuse they won't admit they related to a bad person.

It's a slippery slope to project so heavily onto a character in a ship you like. Beacuse you end up refusing to see them as dynamic people who are more complicated then their relationship and that relationship ends updefining them as a character. Example, I ship Brienne and Jaime but I also don't look at either of them as someone I relate to on a personal level. I'm also fascinated with both of their separate stories and greatly and think those separate journeys are what makes their intertwining moments so intriguing. But if I were projecting myself onto Brienne, then I would end up acting as if she was always perfect and her entire story revolves around a starry eyed Jaime who only lives for that relationship now.

Jon has such a bad treatment by his shippers, beacuse so often he winds up being that slab of meat for the other party. I know some people have joked "well about time its a mans turn" but the point is no one should be given the arm candy treatment by fans. Man or woman. Jon is such a footnote in Jonerys dialouge beacuse ultimetly he serves her at her beck and call with little agency. Because Dany is the one they see themselves as and thus molding Jon into their perfect partner means serving the worst aspects of a girlboss character, meaning stripping the complex agency of their romantic male interests. Same with Ygritte, people see her aggresiveness and sass and think oh my god shes me, and totally ignore the actual text on the page/proof on screen that Jon's time with her isn't happy or romantic. But they want to see themeslves in Ygritte's spitfire personality so badly that they refuse to see Jon as anything but a willing puppet for her enjoyment, beacuse they want the advantage of being her and having him.

Honestly most Jon ships have this problem, and it's partially why I don't ship him with anyone, and i actually ship very few characters with anyone. My time in the Pedro fandom I was infamous for disliking popular ships and a lot of it then too was seeing people projecting onto the female to a point where their interpretation of the character was just not what was on screen.

Casually shipping is fine, again I love a good analysis post about Jaime and Brienne, but like you said. At least with reader inserts, I'm telling you it's you. I'm telling you it's me. You know the reader acts that way beacuse it's who they are and it's not forcing them to be something their not just to force that character to be relatable to you in particular.

Jonsa, Jonerys, Jonrya and Jongritte suffer from this problem greatly, and during my time in the pedro fandom Mando and Omera, and Joel and Tess also were major sufferers of this problem. The male becomes meat for the superior female character beacuse you want it to be you and it being you forces you to turn this person into someone they aren't and this it strips the other party of their agency.

The males now only exist to be relatable arm candy, as opposed to reader inserts which do the work to find a way to make the reader fit into the existing world around them organically.

At least I'm being honest. I write Jon Snow x Reader fics cus I want to fuck Jon Snow, I'm not pretending like I just really like Dany and thats why I ship it. No, they're a terrible couple, but at least I'm honest about my self shipping. I don't have to lie about my intentions.

#shipping is fine #but blind defensive shipping for certain characters turns very toxic #i got a lot of hate during tlou airing for critizing tess as a love interest for joel and its was always people who wanted to relate to her #so they got mad at me for critizing the on screen dynamic beacuse it felt now like i was attacking you as a person #your not tess im not critizing you so shut the hell up and let me speak my opinion #jon is just such a slab of meat in every ship of his #i literally think tormund is the only character hes shipped with where he still gets to remain as a unqiue individual #cus no one who wishes they were a bad ass bitch girlboss relates to the wild drunk lumberjack vibes of tormund #game of thrones #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #jon snow #anti daenerys targaryen #anti ygritte #anti jonerys #anti jonsa #anti jonrya #anti jongritte #anti sansa stark #anti targ stans #i love when i have to do 800 anti tags otherwise every jon shippers gonna send me to the gallows

[lawonderlandwriter]

About Dany's resurrection: what about kl's burning? Do you think it would still be fair to the character to live with this crime? I mean there's no way HBO is going to erase or justify what happened since it was the plot they defended the most so it doesn't seem fair to me for Dany to be involved again in this story since they destroyed who she really was even before she was killed

Fair question anon.

Honestly, at this point, I wouldn't even mind if it was something they just entirely glossed over and pretended never happened and Dany was like, "Oh yeah, that was wrong, I'm sorry I snapped, I feel bad, okay, moving on!"

Because all I really want is Dany back, acting like her selfless self, and getting a happy ending. I don't care how they do it.

But, if they did try to have some sort of explanation for it that absolved Dany entirely, they could do so in a number of ways. It is fantasy after all.

Because of the shit ending, I am incredibly fond of the "Bran was the villain the whole time" theory. This video edit is INCREDIBLE and so well done (tw Dany's death scene) and honestly, aside from everyone's eyes turning white, this is essentially what happened anyway.

But there are other ways to do it, if they didn't want to throw the blame on Bran (don't know why they wouldn't consider it though seeing as how most people hated the idea of 3-eyed-raven!Bran becoming king).

Like I said, it's fantasy, so there could have been some non-Bran related mind-control going on. Maybe it was even the Red Priests and after Dany is resurrected by them to continue doing their bidding, Jon has to save her from them. Another powerful warg other than Bran could have mind-controlled Dany and that's the Big Bad of the series that they now have to defeat, and when Dany is resurrected, she'll be the only one who knows and the roles are reversed, with her trying to convince people of the new threat, as Jon did with the White Walkers.

One I would find immensely entertaining is if they alluded to mind-control but never actually named it and referred to it as some "dark presence" or something and it's actually a cheeky writer's Easter egg and the "dark presence" was Dave and Dan's shit writing. 😆

But yeah, as long as they wouldn't bring her back only to make her the Big Bad again as like, the Night Queen or something, I don't fucking care. (And let's face it, Emilia would never agree to that anyway, she's been through enough). As long as well get Dany back and a happy ending, they can do whatever they like.

#Daenerys Targaryen #Daenerys Defense Squad #Daenerys Deserved Better #anonymous #alex answers #Jon Snow Spin off #game of thrones #emilia clarke #kit harington #jonerys #predictions

[sad-hippie]

If this Jon Snow show thing goes forward and Sansa is in it... I just know they're going to have her apologize for things she most certainly didn't do to that man-child Jon became in the later seasons. I'm just not prepared for it. It was bad enough the amount of times he insulted her and she lovingly endured it. Patiently tried to guide him towards the right path, saved his life at least two times. I don't have the stomach to endure all the takes calling for victory and demanding she be put to death when she inevitably apologizes for one more thing while coddling him and people claim it an admission of some crime. I'm exhausted by simply considering it

#sansa stark #sansa stark defense squad #anti jon snow #just to be safe #anti snow show